/vr/ - Retro Games

I'm not sure what are you trying to say.

Brazilians need to leave.

>>4288938
>choppy 3D
>being surprised a 2D console can't handle 60fps polygons

save the children

Daily reminder that people get paid to review videogames while we share our opinions for free.

Because Nintendo needed the code more than the game. Nintendo had cancelled it because it was a technical marvel, beyond what they were capable of achieving at the time. So they canned the game and told Argonaut to scram, stealing code from Star Fox 2 in the process. The stolen code would later be used in the Star Fox and Mario games on the 64.

>early console 3D was bad
no shit sherlock

>>4288975
WTF I hate Nintendo now!

POST THE FUCKING ROM ALREADY

>>4289023
ok

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxsm66wt3pylbfv/Star%20Fox%202%20%28USA%29.sfc

>>4288938
Because they didn't want to pay IGN to give it a good review?

>>4289032
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxsm66wt3pylbfv/Star%20Fox%202%20%28USA%29.sfc
Isn't that just the older build with that fan translation installed?

>>4288938
Nice Portuglish, João.

>>4288975
They canceled it because of the N64, tard.

>>4289101
Believe what you want to believe. But if you choose to actually believe that Nintendo chose to scrap an exceptionally impressive game that was already complete simply because "DUR NEW CONSOLE" then you probably also believe that Nintendo is above scummy business practices because "DUR MUH CHILDHOOD NINTENDO IS BEST"
Do some research, faglord.

>>4289023
>>4289074
http://www.mediafire.com/file/s8iozwj4jkseqzk/Star+Fox+2.sfc

>>4289074
Looks like the real deal to me.

>>4288938
>choppy 3d
>says the site that'll give unoptimized AAA games a 9.9/10 it's okay review

How do you unlock expert mode? I beat hard and nothing happened

>>4289275
you sound like you haven't played or at least seen it. It's really laggy and not fun at the indoor portions. Please look at this review and you will see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koSGwWsCjW0

>>4288938
>7.8 too much space - IGN

>>4288954
Being aware of the console's limitations doesn't make something any less shit. Starfox was always style over substance crap get over it.

>>4289119
Simcity for NES

This faggot reminds me of all the game critics slamming 2D games during the Playstation 1 era as outdated looking. Well look what holds up better to this day!

>>4288938
The first one is a 5/10 actually.

lol IGN

>>4289617
>style over substance
you fucking idiot you keep saying that on here and having no idea what it means, it's getting really annoying. Running at 15 fps is not poor substance. Star fox is actually pretty deep as far as a fixed path flight game goes. Something that is style over substance is space harrier, space harrier only has enemy patterns and no other mechanics really, the game just oozes style though and that is why its so great. Starfox on the other hand is okay in the style department mostly just flat shaded polygons but still some cool locations it has more substance because you have things to dodge, rings to fly through and other objectives other than enemy patterns like in space harrier. Starfox issues come from neither style or substance so just stfu or find a better criticism

>>4290462
You are saying
>Harrier is good because of thing, StarFox is better because he did a different thing than Harrier.
It doesn't works like that, you know?

>>4288938
at first glance they thought it was you

but after the game was aborted nothing could done

>>4290494
I didnt say starfox was better, I said starfox is a game with more substance retard.

>>4288938
>>>>IGN

>>4290494
That's not what he's saying, he's saying Starfox has more substance than Space Harrier, which was a good game but was more of a "style over substance" thing.

In this case I'd agree with him, at least in as far as Starfox feels more like substance over style. It's a really ugly game that plays slowly due to the limitations of the system, but ultimately was a pretty big leap forward for rail shooters. It had fully realized worlds with 3D obstacles, the ability to control your speed, has ai wingmen, multiple paths and other innovations to the genre.

Starfox definitely was marketed heavily on the novelty of 3D, but the game is full of substance. It would be like saying Mario 64 is "style over substance" because it was one of the first fully 3D platformers and it was marketed heavily on its graphics and presentation.

I guess there's a good conversation to be had about whether it's fair to judge old games on modern standards, even if it is newly released.
Shame this isn't really the place to have it.

>>4290462

So basically you got no examples other than it's got rings?

>>4290536

Space Harrier is definitely Substance AND Style. It's all about the gameplay, and the execution on it is flawless. Mean the execution is SF is just a mess.

>>4290536
Space Harrier is definitely Substance AND Style. It's all about the gameplay, and the execution in it is flawless. Meanwhile the execution in SF is just a mess.

If you want more to play after playing the usuals, look into Rise of the Dragon, which was made by Dynamix - then a part of Sierra. If you like Blade Runner, you'll especially love it.

>>4288938
Nintendo literally btfo by ign, how will they ever recover.

>>4290537
It would be if modern standards weren't so intensely superficial. There was a period where gameplay wasn't even addressed by reviews but thanks to the indie explosion we do seem to be coming out of that tunnel.

>people shit all over modern consoles for forcing top notch graphics with frame drops to 20 fps

>but somehow would have been ok for nintendo release a game that runs with 10-15 fps 20 years ago

>>4290546
god damn it calm down retard I like space harrier better but its an example of a game that is entirely style. It's not a deep game at all and im not saying starfox is deep either but it has a bit more to it than space harrier. I never said star fox was better because of that clownshoes

>>4290554
Substance is depth there is no depth to space harrier, its an amazing game one of my favorites but its not deep at all.

>>4290567
>indie explosion
That's also relevant not only in the gameplay part but also in the graphic one.
Many indies went for the fake retro look and to day people appear to think more of pixels when videogames are being discussed.

Starfox 2 may have righteously been looking to make a revolution towards 3D effects and to a certain degree cancelling it for SNES was the right thing to do because 64 offered much better tools to make the the game as intended.

in the end what the final product did was show how many empty expectations were had on the name of the game alone, nintendo practically admitted decades ago it couldn't be in any way better than 64 but still fooled many impulse buyers with the snes mini.
Everybody is at fault here except for the cynical guys who expected this or worse.

>>4288938
>Like... every game aborted?
Fuck you anon, it would've been great.

Not surprised, it always looked like shit to me.

Sonic Xtreme looks like trash too, I hope Sega releases it someday so people who cream themselves over the idea of unreleased old games get wrecked.

>>4290554
Space Harrier has no substance. It's a fun game, yeah, I'm not gonna shit on it in that sense, but there's not a lot to it. You dodge and shoot, dodge and shoot. No real objectives aside from getting to the end of the level. Nothing really innovative about it either.
It has a good soundtrack. Not only does it have a good soundtrack, but the game looks good too. That's style, not substance. It looks good, it sounds good, it feels good, it plays good. It's good, but it's not nearly as complex as StarFox.

Please note: There's a difference between complexity of a GAME and complexity of CONTROLS. Do not make an argument that Space Harrier is harder than StarFox because of controls/enemies, that's not what I'm talking about.

How can they review a game from 1995 as if it's modern.

Those polygons are not fucking primitive for the time.

>>4289119
This has happened plenty between Nintendo and Sega. I urge you to stop posting until you read up more on these things.

Also, having played Starfox 2, it's not exceptionally impressive. I'm not saying that because it's old, I'm saying that because it's not that good. People can see that. IGN's scale pretty much starts at 6 and they gave this game a 5. That says something.

But you are right about Nintendo and scummy business practices.

>>4288975
The best part was listening to Miyamoto describe his vision of a moving train set in 3d for a game.

Nigga practically claimed to invent polygonal rendering. What a cunt.

>>4290581
because it was a landmark release for 3D graphics on a home console? also the controls were designed around the low framerate which led to the gameplay still being precise and responsive at framerates as low as 5 fps.

>>4290583

How is a game that is all about gameplay "entirely style"? It's the exact opposite of that.

>>4290702

You seem confused. Focusing on gameplay is substance over style. Adding in flashy graphics, gimmicks and extra content that aren't directly part of the core gameplay is style over substance. The core gameplay in SF is vastly less refined than any arcade rail shooter precisely because it decided to push the novelty of 3d graphics over everything else. If SF was done as a sprite based game and released in arcades it would be pretty bad.

>>4289119
Hasn't Nintendo done that a bunch of times?
Like when the Game Wii and Wii U were coming out they both held back a Zelda game because they knew people will buy a new console for one game.

>>4290804
I don't think it would have been bad, but it would have been a exceptionally short and slow Ace Combat with less enemies and shown with a lot of time to react.

>>4288938
the beta is a 7/10 game at worst, and the reviewer fucking sucks if he's complaining about the controls
how different is the final?

>>4290672
Xtreme looks a bit trash, but god damn, it's also pretty slick looking. Would have actually been 100% style over substance.
still don't fucking know why they decided making a game with a fixed viewpoint ala Bug! was a good idea

>>4290709
To be fair, in 1995, the PS1 was out. The fucking 32X was out. The only reason SF2's graphics are impressive is because it's on an SNES, and it's part of the last big hurrah for the machine.
it's really cool for a SuperFX game, but that's it

>>4290702
Space Harrier's gameplay is rock solid. It well and truly succeeds because of how simple it is. You avoid the scenery, dodge the very dynamic enemy patterns, and don't stand still or cross over your last path, leading to a finely playable experience.
It brought the simple shoot-em-up into the Z-axis (with proper 3D positioning, rather than fudging the math, and having far better aiming and control than what attempts had come before), and that was huge. For a 1985 arcade game, Space Harrier is fucking ridiculous compared to what else was available.

Star Fox came out fucking years and years later, and it's still a point and shoot game that doesn't substantially differ overall from the formula laid out by After Burner II.
Star Fox 2's one big innovation was adding an RTS element, because the rest of the game plays out like a normal 3D space shooter, which wasn't too uncommon in 1995.

>>4290702
Then post your Space Harrier clear retard, the only reason you like Star Fox better is because it runs like shit and is miles easier so even a pleb like you can clear it

Why didn't they just make it smoother like Shadow Squadron/Stellar Assault on the 32X?

>>4290672
>Sonic Xtreme looks like trash too, I hope Sega releases it someday so people who cream themselves over the idea of unreleased old games get wrecked.
I don't think Xtreme was ever in a playable state. I think it was just unconnected segments of gameplay on different engines. Say what you want about the quality of SF2, it clearly is playable and complete.

>>4291062
Okay nigger, you obviously can't read. I openly said i wasn't talking about the difficulty of the game when i mentioned complexity. Allow me to reiterate with more detail.

Space harrier is stylish. Looks good and feels good.
Starfox has more game mechanics, more diverse movements for dodging etc. You have up, down, left, right and diagonals to dodge in space harrier. You can control speeds in starfox, you can barrel roll. Two extra mechanics that add to complexity of the game. See what im saying? Theres more substance there.

>>4289328
There really was too much water.

>>4291095
>I openly said i wasn't talking about the difficulty of the game when i mentioned complexity.
A game can't be complex if it's piss easy despite throwing a bunch of features. Proof: your peabrain still can't beat Space harrier because you can only process 15 fps slideshows

>>4291065
Jesus, that looks sexy. Going to play it right now.

>>4291095
>You can control speeds in starfox, you can barrel roll

Yeah, so? That's not really something that changes the gameplay in a meaningful way The tradeoff is that everything else plays like shit. And the game is so easy and slow that you don't need to use them anyway.

>>4291135
Shadow Squadron is pretty decent. It's got some severe flaws (late-game is annoying because of energy management), but it's still a fun little space shooter with nice 32X 3D graphics.
and there's a Starblade-style mode too

there's also a Saturn sequel (Stellar Assault SS) that I've been meaning to play and haven't bothered

I played Star Fox 64 as a kid to death, I barely touched Star Fox SNES and I haven't played for at least 12 years.

....I played again to unlock Star Fox 2 and Jesus Christ it's hard as fuck. Without a aim cursor it's real bad.

>>4290523
It's not. Literally the only noteworthy thing about Fagfox are the ebin grafix that bog the game down to a framerate that's literally unplayable to anyone who has some standards.

>>4291148
Low poly, untextured space combat sims make me wet. Don't ask.

>>4290642
>would've been great.
Would have been- key there.
This is a game that was all but finished, and just dropped because Nintendo realized it was very poor.

>>4289119
I don't know if you're trolling or if you're actually taking this way too seriously.

What, somehow this only thread spawned all the Star Fox and Nintendo haters really hard.

Oh right, I'm 4chan... try to fit in...
Nintendo is the worst thing that happened to videogames and they and their families deserve to die. I don't care about morals or being nice, I hate everyone equally.

>>4291157
Elite frontier!

Mercenary 2 damocles (kinda)

>>4288938
A game that was supposed to have been released over 22 years ago looks primitive? You don't fuckin say.

>>4291118
God I can smell the underage on you.

>>4290772
The game play isn't very deep but it has so much style that it doesn't matter you always want to see what comes next even though it's some enemy patterns or some pillars to dodge

>>4288938
You can't spell ignorant without IGN.

I'm gonna make a reproduction cartridge of the new version of the ROM. Here's the box and label design I've made for it.

>>4291617

Do it, man. This game deserves it on principle alone.

>>4291617
Do a US one. I dont like PAL. I'd buy. You have site?

>>4291274
not an argument, fag

Just unlocked the Secret Base in Star Fox 2 for Normal mode. This is unlocked by collecting all of the Pepper Coins for that given difficulty. Once you've collected all the coins, the Secret Base will be available to visit in subsequent playthroughs.

There are 13 Pepper Coins in Normal mode, 19 in Hard mode, and another 19 in Expert mode.

There is also one additional coin shared between Hard and Expert mode, found by letting Corneria's defense satellite be captured. That last special coin can be found in the satellite's battle area.

The Secret Base has no enemies that will attack you. It has one of every power-up in the game for you to grab and enjoy. But the real treat here? The unique Homing power-up that grants your Charge Shot a Homing function, just like in the leaked prototype builds of the game!

And here's General Pepper's descriptive text about the Homing upgrade.

Part two, right as I'm about to grab a twin laser upgrade. Shame there isn't a second one to further upgrade to Photon Lasers.

Locking onto a Planetary Missile with a Homing Charged Shot.

Fire! Feels damn good to have the homing shot back. Now I gotta grab all the medals for Hard and Expert Modes. If you can read katakana, all of the medal locations (written as "メダル") are detailed in rough maps found in this design document here:

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clvs/manuals/starfox2/imgeu/pdf/CLV-P-SADK.pdf

>>4291937
>>4291941
>>4291945
>>4291950

Keep us posted, Anon.

>>4290672
>Sonic Xtreme looks like trash too, I hope Sega releases it someday so people who cream themselves over the idea of unreleased old games get wrecked.

Pretty much anything tangible from Xtreme has been leaked at this point. Engine tests for Saturn and PC, level maps, character sprites... The entire thing was a mess. SEGA was just giving a go-ahead for them to throw everything at the wall and hope something stuck after Naka pulled the NiGHTS engine.

AXSX (fan game using the leaked assets and an actually good engine) should be cool to play through, when it's finally out in another decade :^)

>>4292000
Working through the Hard medals right now. Seems the info about the Pepper Medal at the Defense Satellite was wrong. I think it only shows up in Expert mode in the final game.

>>4292118
>Pretty much anything tangible from Xtreme has been leaked at this point.

The final engine they worked on hasn't been leaked, but had a few screenshots of it running in an emulator.

The boss engine with actual bosses implemented (they had a kickass lightning model) was not leaked.

A lot of their other demos like that pool game or Sonic Saturn hasn't been leaked either, although they were most likely just mockup screenshots.

The reason Xtreme will never be worth playing was because it was never ever an actual game - they were building many and many demos to see what they could do with the Saturn hardware, using Sonic as the default place-in character, and at one point Sega told them "OK, we need a Sonic game by Christmas, you go and do it". They never actually had a solid game plan, they were dicking around.

>>4292000
>>4292147
Just unlocked the Secret Base on Hard mode. Sure enough, collected 19 Pepper Medals, for a current total of 32 medals across both Normal and Hard. Next up is Expert mode.

Wing Commander I and the never released II:Vengeance of the kilrathi on SNES >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Starfox 2

also>>4290735
>pic says hi

>>4288975
They probably stole code from the canned Yoshi 3D game for Super Mario 64 as well.

>>4291153
it does have more substance, its just not well executed.

Got all the Pepper Medals in every difficulty mode. My reward? Andross's ugly mug has been replaced with Fox's fetching face on the title screen.

In addition, the Pepper Medal counter now reads "Perfect".

In addition:

Note that in Normal and Hard difficulties, it's not possible to earn every medal in one run, because the planets you're able to access are randomized.

In Expert mode, it IS possible to earn every medal in one run, however you MUST sacrifice one of your pilots in Andross's base. This is because both the left and right wings of the fortress contain a medal, and you can't explore both wings on a single life.

>>4288975
>>4289119
>>4292530
>>4290735
Fuck off you gullible Guru Larry fags

>>4292310

Considering this it shows you how much of a dumpster fire SEGA was to go all-in on its marketing, having that giant banner at E3 and trailers produced for something that was barely even a game yet.

If the final engine ever does leak it'll be telling since it'll be the one Chris Coffin almost died putting together. Being able to have that frame of reference for the exact moment they realized they were fucked would be superb.

>>4292627

>M-muh e-celeb bogeyman

This story has been known about for well over a decade, chump. Hell a lot of nerds figured it out in the 90s what with the dissolution of SF2, Argonaut going from Nintendo's primary developer of 3D games to a Sony third party and Croc clearly being Yoshi.

The only gullible ones are people that don't believe it, considering it stems from a series of interviews with developers that haven't been in the gaming industry for years and have literally no reason to lie.

>>4292639
>>4292667

This shows the gaming industry has literally always consisted of corrupt, skeezy fucks. The only difference is consumers now know (yet still don't care; how very fitting for a nation of conmen).

>>4292667
>considering it stems from a series of interviews with developers that haven't been in the gaming industry for years and have literally no reason to lie.
Yes, i bet game devs with no job would never lie or tell fibs to get attention whatsoever. Not in the slightest. Nope.

I don't buy there being a 3D Yoshi game before there being a 3D Mario game, and no one should either

>>4293052
You also can't believe there was game using pseudo poligons made by nint if they hadn't tried using mario first?
They are not fanboys of their own franchises, they create them.

>>4293052
>I don't buy there being a 3D Yoshi game before there being a 3D Mario game, and no one should either
1) Yoshi's was such hot shit in the 90s that the sequel to Super Mario World is a fucking Yoshi game.

2) It was developed by Westerners as an idea. No one told Argonaut to make a 3D Yoshi game, they started making one on their own as a pitch.

>>4293189
>1) Yoshi's was such hot shit in the 90s that the sequel to Super Mario World is a fucking Yoshi game.
not enough to make Nintendo consider it before Mario. Even if No one told them Nintendo has the final word

>>4288938
>Game was originally meant to be released in 1995 on the snes
>lol bad graphics 5/10
You know what they say, you can't spell ignorant without ign.

>>4291617
P-please make more.
I'll give you my money.

>>4293630
If it comes out good I might make a few to sell. I also need to figure out how much it costs to make one at the end of the day, since while Stunt Race FX isn't an expensive game it's more expensive than most donor boards.

>>4288938
I thought star fox 2 was fun, better than Command but not the rail shooters or assault.

>>4291617
I should also mention I'm going to try and make up a print manual ripped from the digital one on Nintendo's website. It it will be a little bit of a chore but it seems perfectly doable.

>>4291617
>I'm gonna make a reproduction cartridge of the new version of the ROM. Here's the box and label design I've made for it.
Why is the box a weird size? No super nintendo games had this size box.

>>4288961
this

>>4293287

What point are you trying to make? Nobody's debating whether or not Nintendo turned it down, we all know they did. You started this chain doubting its existence and your rebuttal is "Oh well Nintendo have the final word"? No fucking shit.

>>4291617
that box is sideways

>>4294849
Yeah there's proof they turned it down, but there's no proof if it was in development before or after Mario 64 and there's no proof they stole the code like a bunch of literally who's say they did

>>4295030

I don't buy into that either, especially as the code wouldn't be terribly useful on new hardware. I do think they took inspiration from Argonaut's work though, speeding up the development of Mario 64 and Star Fox 64 a little. The ground sections of Star Fox 2 are basically 3D platforming, gives you a good idea of what they were working with at the time.

>>4294819
It's a sleeve design for a universal game case.

>>4291617
If you're gonna cannibalize donor carts, you deserve to burn.

>>4288938
Nintendo fans would go as far as to defend an aborted game, even when killed with no faith by Shiggy, their god and savior?

>>4295679
What other option does he really have?

Take preexisting Star Fox 2 carts and fit them with the new roms?

>>4295684
I'm not a massive nintendo fan by any means. But I honestly think Star Fox 2 looks like a really fun game that probably would of been a classic if it was released back in the day.

>>4295679
1) there is no other way to make a reproduction of a Super FX game than to use a donor cart
2) it's just a Stunt Race FX cartridge and no-one is going to miss it. It's not a very good game and it's not like it's rare.

Do you cry crocodile tears when someone buys a job lot of sports games for Sega Genesis just so they can use the cases for their other games, and then dump all the cartridges at a thrift store? It's really not much different.

>>4295709
>It's not a very good game

Fuck you, I liked it.

>>4295709

But Miyamoto doesn't make bad games.

>>4295740
Then buy a copy and play it, no-one is stopping you.

>>4292551
No it doesn't. All the "substance" is artificial af and doesn't count.

>>4291617
*notices Fox's bulge*
OwO

>>4295709
Stunt Race FX is the best SuperFX game
way better than starfox

>>4288938
the original is too laggy to be enjoyable, so I'll take IGN's word on this one

>>4291617
>Dr. Slippy, I'm SFT