/vr/ - Retro Games

I can never figure out these games honestly. I stopped playing them. Always turns out 30 hours in I can't figure out where the fuck to go so I check a walktolhrough and it's like 10 pages of shit I missed. "Hope you revisited homo village and got the Asslord Axe otherwise this boss is impossible!". Too much work for a video game.

Turn based combat can be incredibly fast. The problem is flashy gimmicks like attack animations that slow things down.
In something like Wizardry 1-5 you can have your party wiped out in a matter of seconds.

>>4289180
>>4289183
It was a different time

No really it was. As a kid, you ironically had more patience for this sort of thing. When I discovered ZSNES, I had to literally disable the fast forward key or else I'd use it for every other moment of the game (like the walking and combat)

>>4289180
Not everyone has ADHD and, believe it or not, they can enjoy this kind of games. I personally love turn-based, especially RPGs, HoMM series or 4X.

>>4289194
Pretty much spot on. As a kid I had nothing better to do and was too poor of a family to have many games anyway. Two games I grew up even had save files, Zelda 2 and Dragon Warrior. I had not only beaten Dragon Warrior with it's hidden key items but did so multiple times because it was either that or Zelda 2 again for my long term gaming goals. Nowadays I can't even see myself playing even a remake of such a boring barebone game regardless of how friendly they may had made the exp rate in comparison.

>>4289180
>patience
nigga back then I got like 1 or 2 new games A YEAR

you can bet your ass we'd take our sweet time to savour and explore it.

I think I spent around 30 hours playing chocobo hot and cold in FF IX

Why the fuck do people on this board fall for bait so easily?

>>4289208
Just play them at 2-4 times the speed.

>>4289212
It's not bait if you agree with it even if you love JRPGs.

>>4289195
>not everyone has ADHD
>not everyone has autism

Because I'm not some millennial or gen z faggot that likes "games" where you spend 90% of your time walking from point A to point B and the rest of your time watching "immersive" cinematic cutscenes.

>>4289194
>>4289208
I find this true for myself as well, although I did recently play ff6 and thought it was great and pretty well paced. I also recently played LISA and thought that it really was a good modern day turned based combat game. I never felt like I had to grind and every battle felt close (on the hard mode at least)

I really have fond memories of turned based games and I'm wondering if anyone had ideas here for how to make them more modern or more suited for todays audience (or at least older /vr/fags and whatnot)

say what you want about memetale and lisa but i think they are on the right track for the genre

I dunno man, I'm playing the DS version of FFIV and it can be pretty exhilarating, even during regular battles

>>4289331
>mash ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK
Sure is exhilarating.

>>4289332
so you haven't played it

>>4289180
>I dun understand how can people enjoy game i dun get it what is ADHD? - You.

>>4289334
Oh I'm sorry
>use hourglass or whatever item gives you haste
>ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK
There now it's accurate.

>>4289321
I wouldn't call Undertale turn-based. It's more like a shmup with menus.

>>4289180
>Why do people have other interest than me??

Quality fucking shitpost faggot

>>4289337
yeah, you haven't played it
thanks for the input anyway

>>4289337
this is FFIV so you also use slow

very deep gameplay, you know

>>4289339
HOFL, Found the butthurt jayarrpeegee player

>>4289340
I did play it but to be frank, I can't remember much since I was in a drunk stupor trough most of it since this game is so boring.

>>4289347
k

>>4289348
I remember summoning twin flare with the twins to win and edge being able to throw things. What part of the game are you at, did you already ride the silver whale to the moon?

so it's safe to assume the OP is severely butthurt because his favourite console got ignored due to lack of rpgs?

>>4289348
Kid, there is no strategy to FF4, all equipment you find is incremental, you just up upgrade to the latest gear. You can't form teams, they are all determined by the plot. Some of the characters are downright useless.

>>4289350
>ps2
>ignored
tri agen :]

>>4289351
and which augments did you use?

>>4289356
>6th gen cancer
how surprising

>>4289349
just beat the cpu

>>4289351
Also the way the game handles accuracy is retarded, since it's based almost entirely on your level. Can't even challenge yourself with a low-level playthrough due to that shit.

>>4289358
>I'm a fucking hipster who likes to sit and pretend to enjoy games where I have to sit and press an attack command every ~20 seconds and will not avoid shitting on anyone who doesn't enjoy wasting time on boring ass slow paced dipshit games where 80% of the gameplay is waiting between attacks

>>4289357
There is no gameplay, you just mash attack, some elemental magic, and heal as necessary. Equipment don't matter, party selection isn't allowed. It's a giant piece of turd and you should feel ashamed of yourself for having such poor taste.

>>4289180
There's plenty of JRPGs, even old ones that don't have turn-based combat. If you want to give the genre a second chance, I recommend you try something like Tales, Star Ocean or Mana. Kingdom Hearts is a good start, too, but that's not retro.

>>4289345
Not even that big of a fan of them. Its yet another thread of some dipshit wondering how other people can enjoy something he doesn't

>>4289367
>>4289340

>>4289371
Have fun reading the world's most boring anime plot about a cuck who constantly gets his girlfriend kidnapped by his friend. Since that's all you'll be doing, READING, not playing.

>>4289372
k

>>4289373
Final Fantasy is trash and you are worthless trash, you should really kill yourself.

>>4289370
go back to askreddit you fucking nigger

>>4289374
k

>>4289180
I agree, besides pokemon I never really got into the turn-based jrpg system. It's not even that mashing that attack button was bad, it's that there was no choice because you had to save all of your magic for the boss/end of the dungeon and there was never enough. Also linear repetitive plot. It's like I was playing through a text and sprite based movie instead of an actual game

I always found action-rpgs a much better genre. I also hated the chibi character sprites. Enemies would get this intricate pixel art, and all I'd have is this tiny caricature.

CRPG's on the otherhand always represented my character in a non-cartoony way. Baldur's Gate, Divine Divinity. Dark Sun, Fallout - my character was to scale in all those games which didn't make me feel like a midget. I also appreciated the non-linearity of CRPGs, it felt more "role playing" because I was making decisions compared to JRPG's where everything was predetermined for me.

>>4289348
>>4289373
>>4289401
what's the point of replying if all you're going to say is 'k'? Why even bother posting?

>>4289209
Oh fuck, Chocobo Hot and Cold. Legend.

>>4289180
I didn't have ADD back then

Why do non-gamers even bother playing video games? After all these years I still haven't found the answer....I guess 'cause vidgegames are cool now? No one really gets made fun of for liking them anymore. Or not as much as WE used to anyway. You're welcome, non-gamers. We carried these things long enough to the point that there is a game for every person out there now.

>>4289180
people just like to self insert as the protagonist and live vicariously thru the game
>real life u
doesn't do shit
>video game hero
has qt grills in his party
is stronk
goes on dope adventures

plus the games are longer than normal games so u feel like you're getting more game, especially once they started doing the multiple discs thing.
oh and they're so easy a retard can beat them,

>>4289180
I don't force myself to enjoy them, I legitimately love turn based combat, I find it to be very fun, I don't know how to explain it, but something about it just clicks with me, even when I was a kid I was making up turn based RPGs with my toys all the time because of how much I enjoyed the system.

>>4289180
>How can people like what I don't like
>I am silly

>>4289180
>literally can't conceive of someone liking something you personally don't.

If this is genuine, you have a cognitive disorder. There might be help available to you.

>>4289228
>>4289228
>"games" where you spend 90% of your time walking from point A to point B and the rest of your time watching "immersive" cinematic cutscenes
Sounds more or less like JRPGs.

>>4289452
why would I seriously reply to a baiting troll?

>>4289541
>I only play shit games

>>4289180
We don't all have ADHD, anon.

>>4289552
>games I don't like are shit and people who like them are shit

This is why interesting conversation never happens here anymore. It's just variations of this over and over about everything.

>JRPGs
>turn-based shit

ケケケ

>>4289208
I think one is much more likely to beat DQ1 than a 80-hour cinematic RPG. I loved the former, but I've almost never beaten long-ass jRPGs because I lose interest after a certain point. I don't think the amount of grinding matters here.

>>4289603
nobody cared about these clunky ultima underworld clones before fromsoft made dark souls, now everyone's pretending they were some hidden gems

>>4289180
kid with A.D.D. says what?

>>4289180
Which gaming rag do you write for, OP?

>>4289603
That's not a JRPG, moron.

>>4289367
so which augments did you use?

>>4289612
I was recently diagnosed with ADD as an adult, and I greatly prefer games where the player sets the pace to games where the player is forced to react according to the game's schedule.

RPGs, turn based games, open ended games that you can play mostly on pause, etc. are much easier for me to play than platformers, shooters, rhythm games, and the like.

Any of you guys mostly dislike jpegs but then still find a few you do like?

I like SMT and Sweet Home, also I like NES ones better than SNES ones usually.

>>4289180
>Put the ATB speed to max
>????
>Profit

Fast forwarding through the scenery and music is a travesty for this game. It's like sprinting through the grand canyon.

>>4289787
>jpegs
I like the ones with nude ladies.

>>4289180

Spotted the GMOD, Minecraft, Skyrim, GTAV Gen-Z COD kiddie

>>4289194
This. Like, computers and the internet weren't common household appliances. Cable and satellite T.V. were for rich people who lived in big cities.
I had 3 tv channels on poor antenna reception. And kid's programming only came on Saturday mornings or from 3pm-5pm.

I needed the Jrpgs to kill time back then, otherwise I'd probably be outside torturing animals and starting fires with a magnifying glass.

>>4289742
>RPG
>Made by Japanese developers
>Not a JRPG
???

Darksouls is the only good jap rpg.

>>4289829
>>>/v/

I just marathoned the last battle of The Final Fantasy Legend with a SAW, did I enjoy it?

>>4289854
>did I enjoy it?
fuck off with your shitty memes and die

>>4289818
JRPG refers to console RPGs with a recognizable set of mechanics, following the tradition of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. It doesn't make sense that every RPG made in Japan is therefore what we refer as an jrpg, there were early ultima and wizardry clones before the genre was codified.

Personally, I think computer rpg and console rpg should mean the same as western rpg and japanese rpg, it's just that the abbreviations don't work.

Turn based fights are good if there's something to do like Mario RPG, Paper Mario or Vagrant's Story. Just fighting on a menu makes me want to blow my brains out.

>>4289867
Well what are these sets of mechanics? Metal max has more in common with western games than it does dragon quest or final fantasy despite it's turn based battle system.

>>4289818
>>4289829
JRPG is a genre not a nationality. South Park and the Stick of Truth is a JRPG, Demon's Souls is a WRPG.

>>4289878
No, it is a nationaltiy, its not a genre, Demon's Souls is an Action JRPG, South Park and the Stick of Truth is a Turn-based WRPG.

I actually find that I still enjoy turn based combat. What I don't enjoy is random encounters. As such I actually still have as much fun as I did as a kid playing SMRPG, Paper Mario, Chrono Trigger (forced encounters =/= random encounters), etc. But I've been replaying FF1 and it's annoying to hear two seconds of overworld music and then be in another battle.

>>4289893
>WRPG
Sure, mate.

>>4289452
Crpgs are fucking garbage and deader than Jimmy Hoffa.

>>4289812
Why would he post on /vr/ if he likes those things you stupid ass, why can't you just admit people force themselves to sit through boring turn based combat

>>4289923
Why wouldn't he post on /vr/ if he liked those things? These types of threads happen weekly on /v/, if not even more often, odds are that OP got tired of shitposting there and came to do it here.

>>4289180
>All JRPGs are Square JRPG

I'll bet you think all mech games are based on Gundam

>>4289610
Then why did they get so many sequels and localizations?

>>4289916
Divinity OS2 is doing great.

>>4289935
To be honest, Square made the best /vr/ JRPGs.

OP, I see your intelligence and I raise to you mine.

These rock-bashing ogres keep crawling back to this board like an abusive wife, only to have their awful taste revealed and laughed at. I wonder why these autistic JRPG worshippers don't give in and rot away. This board would be infinitely better for it.

>>4289610
Who cares why people began playing them.
I played Kings Field because I was looking for a cool Dungeon Crawler and it delievered in spades with excellent atmosphere. They don't play much like Ultima Underworld either.

>>4289893
Definetly not my dude. They are genres that were born from a nation but if you don't see how the trappings of them are in games not from Japan you're either dense and don't understand what video game genres are or just an asshole who wants to have a pointless argument.

>>4289180
>me, age 10
wow this game is yuuuuuuge omg i can't wait to sink 100+ hours into this beautiful world
fuck i love jrpgs
>me, now, age 30
fuck i gotta go to work
fuck i gotta go grocery shopping
fuck i gotta take care of my wife and kids
fuck i have no time
fuck i hate jrpgs

>>4289975
No you don't understand, the genre is RPG, the J or W has no hold in how it plays, only where its from, an A for Action, or T for Tactical is what determines how it plays.

>>4289867
>>4289878
I thought it was just a single board's buffoon spouting this nonsense

>>4289183
>knew someone like this
>that person got lost in Shenmue 2 in the first 2 hours of the game
>he didn't knew what to do
>when there were maps, could ask people for guidance and to take you to the places you need and there is even a fucking diary

>>4289610
>King's Field
>ultima underworld clone

So, you've never actually played a King's Field game before. Got it.

>>4289980
Just wait another 20 or so years when your kids are moved out and you hate/divorced your wife. You'll love 'em all over again.

>>4289579
>This is why interesting conversation never happens here anymore
No, it's because people start threads with low quality bait like
>Why do people force themselves to "enjoy" JRPGs
That's not how you spur interesting discussion. This place is literally just /v/ for hipsters.

So what is a jrpg with combat you enjoy /vr/?

I love the battle system in Breath of Fire IV, shame it doesn't have a hard mode though.

>>4289180
You say that... But then you post a picture of a really fun boss fight. Somethings fishy. It’s like you’re trolling us or something, on /vr/ of all places.

>>4290068

>>4289180
>force themselves

>>4290010
Can’t wait. I’ve got a mental and physical back log a mile long!

>>4290068

>>4289180

combat is only 30% of a JRPG, dumbshit.

What a piece of shit thread.

>>4290101
Oh yeah! I forgot the other 70% which is waiting for the attack animations of your enimies to finish

>>4289180

>How can people like what I don't: The Thread

This is really one of the most pointless topics I've seen. Not just on 4chan, but literally anywhere. Just imagine replacing JRPGs with anything else. D&D. Baseball. Turtles. Anything would be stupid as the subject of this topic.

>>4289180
yeah I have to agree, how many times I tried to play FF or chrono, xenogears or any of that kind of games, I don't understand them, the story is fucking dumb for me, and the gameplay it feels so boring to me that I just lost all interest in this or that game I tried.

I feel like I'm forcing like OP said, just the hype around made me give a shot, one that I deeply regret.

For me, well, I'm more like the Dragon Age Origins, til now, couldn't found a superior game that could even be close to the level of DAO.

I know there's Baldur's Gate, well, I'm trying it right now, it feels so old, but fine, I got it, is old, so I have to check deeper, I'm playing the enhanced edition, it feels cool, any advice to enjoy Baldur's Gate? I always heard and read that Baldur's Gate II Shadows Of Ann is the best RPG, so, I have to tried both.

I miss the mystery of older games cause nowadays you get clear objectives or a literal line on the ground you can follow.

Dont get me wrong though the majority of JRPGS did this shit all wrong and most people incorrect mistake mystery and adventure for purposeful obtuse game design.

>Its so obvious, I should have known to talk to that one old guy 30 times and mention his daughter to get the Demigod sword which you use on the life fountain that kills the hidden ogre that lets you blah blah blah nobody fucking cares.
>mentioned once in tiny print in a Japanese only strat guide

OR

>the information you need is actually IN THE GAME
>Get rewarded for paying attention to the story
>pass dialog checks to get the good stuff

>>4289183
I've been beating JRPGs easily since I was 8. It's a notoriously easy genre...you might just be stupid, anon.

If anyone has the authority to define what an RPG is, then it's CRPG Addict, the dude has played more games in the genre than you'll start in your life. I agree with most of this:
http://crpgaddict.blogspot.co.id/2012/07/new-master-game-list-what-is-crpg.html

>>4290218
>to define what an RPG is
nobody asked

>>4290218
I disagree with the limitations to combat. RPGs can be completely free of violence and still rely on stats and abilities to determine your chances of success.

>>4289542
Then why reply at all?

>>4289462
CRPGs are far more popular than JRPGs on the modern Vidya market

>>4290212
You only play Final Fantasy, don't you?

>>4290314

Please, tell us the numerous super hard rpgs from back in the day. What, did Breath of Fire make you piss yourself or something? You know that you can keep leveling up if things are tough, right?

>>4290152
tbf a lot of WRPGs did this shit too, if a game had a 1-900 tip hotline or hawked the strategy guide in the manual you knew you were in for a wild ride.

Even in games like Wizardry V where you could figure everything out if you paid attention they'd do shit like put every key two levels away on the opposite end of the dungeon for maximum confusion.

>>4290090

Even with it's flaws I still play through that damn game at least once a year.

I haven't played a SNES RPG since Chrono Trigger back in 1995. I would like to try some of the RPGs I missed out on back in the day. Which RPG would you say is the best one that I have not played?

Here is the RPGs that I have played...

Chrono Trigger.
Final Fantasy II & III
Breath of Fire 1 & 2
Shadowrun
Lufia
Illusion of Gaia
Soul Blazer
Zelda LttP

>>4290090
What game? I've only played baby mode jprgs and want to try some good shit.

>>4290346
I have also played Secret of Mana.

>>4290238
But if the primary gameplay isn't focused on character development then it's not an RPG.

Gameplay is what defines the genre. Not Appearances or Narratives.

I'm constantly lecturing people on game genres. There's lots of games that "look" like RPGs, but they're actually Life Sims or Adventure games with a turn based combat. In these types of games, the number damage displays are arbitrary, because progress is rigged a checklist of item acquisitions. Gimmicky boss fights that ignore your stats and require instant death immunity, or someway to overcome blind status to deal damage in the first place.

>>4290346
>Zelda LttP
REEEEEEEE
Zelda 2 is the on Zelda title that can be considered an RPG.
Link to the Past is Action-Adventure.

>>4289180
>Patience
You are already "wasting" time in the eyes of society, why care about how other nerds do it?

Also, it doesnt even feels like a test for patience.
If you have problems with that you might have a problem, not even joking.

>>4290460
I realize that LttP isn't an RPG. I included it because some people think it is.

>>4290498
Don't let others influence you into saying utter bullshit anon. We're all anonymous here, the point is to say what you really mean.

>>4290502
Okay then, let's cut the BS. None of these games are RPGs. They're interactive story books that were designed for weak people who have very low testosterone, and who lack the alertness, quick thinking, reflexes and willpower to conquer challenging skill-based action games.

>>4290547
Action games are for children with no impulse control. They'd would end up talking to an NPC for 5 minutes because they keep smashing buttons. Then they get lost because they weren't paying attention and can't follow instructions.

>>4289365
What the is wrong with you that you literally think people are pretending to like something that you don't like? Are you seriously so narcissistic and deluded? Do you think that this is one big prank that people are playing on you? Nigga you seriously need some help.

L M F A O

>>4289180
Yep. I tried them. They're shit. They're boring. They're too slow for what they offer. They're literally one step from being overly repetitive visual novels or cut scene based games except you have to button mash through them. Combat is honestly the only good part but even that gets boring in less than an hour.

>>4289180
there are so many more people who unironically play FPS games, go bash on them

>>4290701
I had that experience with my younger cousin. Playing pokemon, he didn't read any of the text and didn't know what to do. When he found out I could look up walkthroughs on my phone, he wouldn't leave my side.

I'd be like, "You got to leave the town and go north...north means up...now talk to this guy"
"I've already talked to this guy"
"Talk to him again"
"He didn't do anything."
"Talk to him again"
"See? Nothing happened."
"TALK TO HIM AGAIN!"
"Now, he wants to trade for something. Yes or no?"
"YES! OMG WHAT DO YOU THINK!"

We get it OP, you have autism.

>>4289180
jrpgs were my childhood you nigger

>>4289321
I thought Child of Light did turn-based pretty well for a modern game...you're always doing something and managing lots of shit so it doesn't get tedious.

>>4290701
If you had normal testosterone levels, you wouldn't have the patience to wade through oceans of text and menu screens. You'd be more alert, energized, aggressive and you'd process information faster, and you'd want a faster more aggressive action game that could keep up with you.

Testosterone lowers impulse control. That's why 95% of prison inmates are men.

>>4290757
Nah, prison is full of people who are too stupid to either A - not break the law or B - not get caught.

That's why most prisons are full of dumb black people.

>>4290349
Someone please help this gentle shitposter.

>>4289321
Close? You must've been very underleveled, Lisa the Painful is unbalanced as fuck. It's almost as if they ignored the formula field and just inflated HP to sky high levels.

It is a good game but it needs serious, serious work on its balance. Only bosses that are an actual menace are ones who outright permakill party members.

>>4290757
Man kills kid = Electric chair

Woman kills kid = "Umm umm ummmm muh postpartum depwession which isn't a real thing umm ummm she needs a #safespace"

>>4290797
>>4290349
It's SaGa Frontier. Check the SaGa threads for an entry point into the series though.

>>4289180
http://www.adhd-support.org/

>>4289180
I think turn-based combat is fun in games like fallout, fallout tactics, xcom, jagged alliance, fire emblem, tactics ogre.

It does suck in most JRPGs though. If I wanted boring for story's sake I'd be reading a book.

>>4289180
If you grew up playing turn based random battle jrpgs on NES and SNES, it's not forcing, its just something you enjoy. I never understood how people force themsleves to "enjoy" racing games or sports games for that matter.

You're either grinding too hard or won't ever be able to get into JRPGs.

My niece and nephew have their own tablets and unlimited wifi connection. But they'd rather play with these cheap old LCD poker game devices that have been stuffed into a drawer for years.
They don't even know how to play poker. They just like hitting buttons for the sound it makes.

I fear the future of gaming won't be gaming at all.

Dragon quest and pokemon are the two game series that represent japan. They love the fucking shit out of them because they know what they're getting into and turn based battles are hypnotically pleasing in some way (which I also sympathize with, turn based is my shit)

Some people love this shit. Some people don't. That's why there are different genres. It's not complicated, nor does it warrant a 100+ post thread about a baiter and a bunch of saps fighting over it. Let this thread die please. I'll be playing DQVII until then.

>>4290757
>being this insecure about enjoying video games

>>4290828
Frontier is the entry point.

>>4290346
Final Fantasy 5

>>4290960
This, I like to play turn based games when I want to relax.

Rpg's: a more elegant way to play from a more civilised age of gaming.

There's a lot of data on Myers and Briggs personality types, including what game genres they like the most.

At a glance, it looks like everyone like RPGs. But my experience on the internet tells me most people don't know the difference between RPGs and Adventure games or even, on a more fundamental level, how genres are categorized in the first place.

>>4289180

>I refuse to believe people can enjoy something I don't

Pretty much sums up the attitude of the entire site

>>4289209
>>4289462

>tfw you score 800 points at Air Garden

>>4289180
>why do people like games that I don't like?
>they must just all be fucking stupid!

I can get down with all kinds of retro games but everytime I try to play FFVI the megablocks characters ruin it for me everytime and I just turn it off.

I don't mind turn-based combat. It's the random encounters that I can't stand.

>>4289452
k

>>4291367

Seven, you mean? Never heard the 2D character sprites described that way....

>>4290314
I play all sorts of JRPGs, and none of them have ever been hard to figure out except MAYBE a small handful. Face it, you're an idiot.

>>4289180
Chrono Trigger is ATB.
ATB is real-time with active pause, just like Baldur's Gate, Neverwiner Night or Mass Effect.

>>4291543
Yes, I did mean 7, missed a numeral by mistake.

>>4289180

Not everyone has ADHD, anon

On top of that, my first rpg was Super Mario RPG so it gave me the sensation that pressing butons while playing RPG will make my attack stronger, i had a ton of fun playing Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, Star Ocean and the sort

>>4292369
ATB is still turn based, just because you now have a timer for your turns doesn't mean it isn't still turn based, with ATB you still wait for your character's turns, your characters cannot do anything when it is not their turn, it is still based around turns, therefore being, turn based.
Its pretty much like adding a clock to chess, in both cases if you're too slow to act you will lose the game.

>>4289195
But HoMM and 4x have deep, tactical choices that make you stop and think.

JRPGs have you mashing out the same attack for aeons interrupted only by having to heal, walk down a corridor, watch a cutscene, or play find the npc. Not to mention the animations are so much faster in those games you mentioned.

>>4292369
Chrono Trigger is turn based in the same way speed-chess is turn based. Actually fuck it, even regular chess has time limits they are just insanely long time limits (tournie rules)

>>4292543
Sounds like Ps2 era and up final fantasy.
>not retro

When I was a kid I mainly played JRPGs because I rarely got new games and I thought they had more inherent playtime and replay value over other genres. With the exception of SMT, I can't really stand them anymore.

>>4292558
Chronotrigger is no different. Mash out the same attack and sometimes heal.

x4 and stuff like HoMM you have to think tactically more.

Chrono trigger the only points that require tactics are a handful of boss fights.

>>4292541
League of Legends have cooldowns on skills. Is it turn-based?

>>4292567
league you move your character in real time.

he said it perfectly. The ATB is like the clock in chess, which all tournies have.

>>4292567
Adding to what >>4292571 said, you do other things while waiting for a cooldown, you can use other skills, use an item, run around, etc. but in ATB you can do one thing and one thing only on your turn, then you have to sit there and wait until you get your turn again, until you get your turn you are a sitting duck in combat, that is what makes it turn based.

>>4292571
It is not like chess clock. In chess, time passes only for one player. In ATB time passes for all characters of both sides.

Can your opponent move in chess when you are thinking about next move during your turn? In ATB he can, because it's never YOUR turn. Do you know what "turn" means?

>>4292583
How is having 4 cooldowns on 4 skills different than having 3 cooldowns on 3 characters?

>>4292590
It's called simaltinous turns. We've had this stuff since Rogue was around! It's also used in x4 games and a million other things. Yes it is still a turn even if both players take it at the same time!

Do you know what had ATB before Chrono Trigger? Eye of the Beholder, except it also let you move while waiting for your turn! You had 4 party members and you waited for their turn to do a spell or attack. Each turn's time ticked sepertly.

>>4292595
Online Call of Duty is turn-based with 60 simultaneous turns per second.

>>4292590
Because one thing is a skill, the other is a character, you're basically asking the difference between someone with a skill cooldown who is still taking other actions, and a player that cannot move or act whatsoever until his cooldown is finished.
If ATB isn't turn based, then why can't enemies act while my characters take their turns, hell why can't anyone but the one person who is acting do anything? Its because its turn based, everyone has to wait for a battle participant to act in a turn based game, if it wasn't turn based, then enemies and characters wouldn't have to all act one at a time, they would be all acting at once.

This shouldn't be such a hard concept to wrap your head around, either you're really thick, or you're just baiting.

>>4292610
>why can't enemies act while my characters take their turns
They can.

Don't tell me you're the type of fag to turn on "wait" instead of "active".

>>4292610
Final faggots have clung onto the marketing since it was introduced, you expect them to give up on 20 years of conditioning in a few posts on an imageboard?

>>4292609
And real life is turn based with (insert smallest unit of time that atomic movment can happen in) time limits per turn.

Think of 'action' has short hand for "the time limits for the turn are so fast that they don't register" you don't even have time ot THINK in one frame of COD. However you have plenty of time to think in the 3,600 frames of online chess with 10 minute time limits per turn

>>4292613
They cannot, this has nothing to do with wait or active, if a character is taking their turn performing let's say... Bahamut ZERO for example, then no one is allow to do anything until that turn has resolved, if you argue otherwise you're doing nothing but proving that you have never actually played a game with ATB.

>>4292613
>active mode
>woah holy lshit the enemies really attack me while im selecting spells so intense this is awsome fuck shit how fast can scroll the menus awesome its like im playing a real video game look at the cursor move wooooooaaaaaAAAAAHHHH

>>4292619
Cinematic attacks that stop the action are also present in fighting games. Even undoubtedly action games like Assassin's Creed have attacks that stop the action to show animation.

>>4292631
Did that game have cursor memory? Because if it did it's even less exciting than that.

>>4292619
Twincast in FF4 was bugged and broke that rule which led to some highly interesting properties of the spell.

>>4292638
>the attack command is a cinematic action

weewwww

>>4292613
"Wait" is just active pause. It's also present in most modern single-player action games when you change weapon.

>>4292638
And in fighting games these cienmetic attacks require you to build a meter that might take the entire round, maybe more.

They don't happen every fucking time you throw a punch.

And you know what? The slow pace would be fine if the combat actually was tactical and required you to make tough choices.

>>4292638
But every attack in ATBs stop the action, if a character attack, no one can act until the character walks up, swings their weapon, and returns to the position they were initially standing in, if you cast fire, no one can act until the fire animation finishes.

>>4292654
So it's instant attack with long cinematic animation. Most FPS games have instant attack - once you click button to fire at enemy, he takes damage. Also in ATB damage is instant, but you need proper timing.

Long animation have nothing to do with ATB being action battle. If I would take Counter Strike and add long boring animation for all players after every shot fired, it will be still action FPS. A bit boring, but still.

Ok boys and girls. Here's the real deal

>Tactical Combat: Requires using your head, it's ok if it's slow or turn based. Think X4, tacticl SRPGS like FE or X;COM, deep WRPGs and Dungeon Crawlers like Temple of Elemental Evil.

>Skillful Action combat: Doesn't require using your brain but it's fast and requires you to move and attack in difficult to pull off ways. Think Ys or any fast paced tough as nails action game

>Endurance test: It might not be very skillful or tactical but it's a long, long way to a save point, there's a huge penatly for dying, all your resources are limited and every dumb mistake adds up. Think dungeon crawlers!

>Boring ass combat: No tactics no skillful action. No endurance test either since you have 99 potions, ether, short distance between save points and your heal-slut can recover everyone's hp to full in 2 casts. You only die if you fall asleep or on that one boss which is kind of hard till you figure out you got to do the thing. Every Jrpg ever made.

>>4292675
Jesus Christ, just drop the act already dude, you've been proven wrong by multiple people, and your argument is getting more and more retarded with each post, attacks and damage aren't instantaneous in ATB, and there is no proper timing to be made.
I cannot even begin to fathom what kind of mental gymnastics you are trying to pull with this one.

You know how in the West casuals love sports and action games and think RPGs are for nerds and losers? In the East it's the opposite: RPGs are considered the casual-friendly games while action stuff is for freaks with an iron will to S-rank everything and amounts of free time normally reserved for NEETs. Think about it

>JRPGs let you save and quit at any time to do other things so you're under no pressure to do everything in one go like an arcade game and can complete everything at you're own pace.
>Emphasis on story to try and compel players despite underwhelming mechanics while the plot sits in content somewhere between a light novel and a telenovela so even the dimmest man can understand it fully.
>Relatively long so they sound like a good value if you don't want to buy many games yet are always beatable so it doesn't feel like it's too much to handle.

I would call it the Asian equivalent of Naughty Dog's glorified movie games but at least JRPGs give you a good amount of playtime for your $60.

>>4292936
JRPGs as a genre are inherently casual. Every 'hardcore' JRPG is either just an action game with level ups thrown on [Ys], an SRPG [Fire Emblem], or a dungeon crawler [SMT, Etrian oddysy, NES era JRPGs].

FPS and any other action games maybe be casual or they may be hardcore depending on how they are made.

>>4292936
>[People who play RPGs are] "depressed gamers who like to sit alone in their dark rooms and play slow games."
-Hiroshi Yamauchi

>>4292950
SaGa is none of the above, but a hardcore JRPG

>>4292936
I'm not trying imply anything bad when I say this but JRPGs are for people with lots of TIME on their hands. I used to play the shit out of them but now that I'm an old man I really cant find the will to sink any time into them.

>>4292957

Keep in mind the context when you quote that bullshit, though; he was salty at Squaresoft, who were threatening to jump overboard and ditch Nintendo's Love Boat of Hardcore Business Rape.

>>4293013
They tried and he served them tea for their meager effort. Sure hindsight is 20/20, but he really didn't give two fucks. It's square who was salty for a long ass time. Besides it's not like nintendo did not make RPG's so him saying that is most likely his real opinion on the matter.

>>4292936
"I remember when I played Wizardry as a child, the game was so intellectual – and the people who played it seemed so cool – that it completely blew away the stereotypical image of the video game otaku. During the genesis of the Japanese RPG (the Famicom’s prime), such an awe-inspiring game coming from the West shook up the Japanese RPG genre and would captivate gamers’ hearts for years to come." Motoya Ataka

That's coming from a guy that makes Wizardry clones, so take it as you will.

>>4289742
>>4289867
>>4289878
>>4289975
shit then i guess nahrootoe is an anime too huh?

>>4293009
I was gonna say quit being lazy or something like that, but you're right. The only reason I have time for them now is because I gave up on movies and tv, so's I got an extra few hours in my week for rpg's.

>the only real videogames are 80s arcade games with non-stop action that I spend 8 hours a day trying to 1cc! everything else isn't a real videogame!
This shitty meme really needs to stop. Not everything has to cater to your ADHD. Sometimes you just want to explore a comfy world and watch your numbers grow, there's nothing wrong with that.

It's also funny how people who bash turn-based JRPGs don't apply their grievances to sacred cows like western Wizardry clones and D&D RPGs, and point-and-click adventures even though they are essentially the same type of gameplay, walking around and choosing options from a menu.

>>4294405
The difference is those wizardry and D&D actually require using your noggin. Either through having more tactical combat or through tricky to navigate dungeons. Sometimes both! JRPGS pretty much never have those. The ones that do are 99% 1st generation ones on the NES or dungeon crawlers with animu graphics.

Point and Click adventures had puzzles that required you to use a bit of reasoning or observation. JRPGs almost never have puzzles and when they do they are either very simple or very rare. The only exception I think is Lufia 2.

Like I said here >>4292950 the genre is basically doomed to casuality and there are very very very few exceptions.

>>4289980
>having a wife and kids
you cucked yourself anon

>>4289180
I've always thought people that play JRPGs are the type that also like a good game of chess. They like strategy, but also a good story. Its like eating a really good, 20oz steak a small piece at a time. Then you have others that prefer instant gratification in games like Shmups or the Street Fighter series. RPGs filled a huge gap that was created during the Atari years. People were tired of 10 minute games and wanted something engaging. The drawback is that RTS games are almost dead. Starcraft is one of the few games keeping that genre alive. The irony is that RTS games fit right in-between Regular sidescrollers and RPGs. Its a bit of both.

>>4294886
RTS is for people who want to do all the setup so that the computer can do the fun part while you watch like a voyeur.

>>4294886
In chess your moves actually have implications and consequences, in JRPGs you just keep selecting an attack command to win, SOMETIMES you might have to use a different elemental or kill a healer first but besides that its 100000% braindread compared to chess

>>4294428
>JRPGs pretty much never have tricky to navigate dungeons or tactical combat
The only reason the combat doesn't feel tactical to you fucks is because you grind so much that you literally can't lose. This is the type of person who thinks spells that boost your stats are useless.

>>4295118
Pretty much this. Older JRPGs seem especially boring to people nowadays because they're already familiar with the conventions of the genre. When I played them back in the time, without a emulator turbo button to help me grind, even rather straightforward games like FFIV and Breath of Fire felt quite challenging, requiring planning, exploration and careful resource management.

>>4294886
are you kidding me? most JRPGS require zero strategy since all you do is spam the same commands over and over. most action game require way more strategy and thought, especially fucking fighting games, even the simplest fighting game like street fighter 2 requires a thousand times more strategy than your typical jrpg.

>>4294907
>Watching
There is no time to watch in a RTS, you always have to be doing something.

>>4295246
Only in autistic competitive online matches. In single player it's usually enough to get a good economy going then right click your death balls towards the enemy base.

>>4289180
Because they're cosy AF, pleb

>mfw everyone is replying to this bullshit
you people already old enough to tell the difference between a normal post and bait, let the shitlord alone and move on you faggots, you shouldn't care about what a cocksucker like OP has to say
>bwaaah someone insulted something i like!
IGNORE IT
>he hates something i like
IGNORE IT
>B-but he's wrong!
IGNORE IT

>>4295118
SRPGs and the deeper WRPGs like Temple of Elemental Evil have far far far more strategy than JRPGs. In JRPGs you just spam the same attack over and over and sometimes heal. Maybe if it's a super tactical fight you keep some buffs refreshed!

And the SRPGs and WRPGs implimented systems that made grinding limited, ineffective, or downright impossible. Why didn't the JRPGs learn?

>>4295742
>SRPGs and the deeper WRPGs like Temple of Elemental Evil have far far far more strategy than JRPGs.
Not really, unless all you played was FF and DQ.
>And the SRPGs and WRPGs implimented systems that made grinding limited, ineffective, or downright impossible
That's a really questionable statement, especially when the vast majority of WRPGs have a literal cheat engine in the character creation alone.
>Why didn't the JRPGs learn?
They did?
Sounds like you haven't played any SaGa game or stuff like Valkyrie Profile, you really are talking about things you obviously have little to no experience of.

>>4289180
I´m not fan of the JRPG because they are so tedius in the grinding or the story has a SLOW timing, that why I prefer the Active Battle System, it makes less the tedius of the JRPG and is very funny.

>>4295761
>Not really, unless all you played was FF and DQ.
Well since your shitting on the two foundational and most influential games in the fucking genre this is already a bad sign. You've basically self-admitted here that the whole genre is weak and only a few outliers exist.

So there's no debate between us on that I asssume? We agree that overwhelmingly JRPGs are casual.

So there's a few outliers. Ok but any Saga or Valkyrire profile is nowhere near the level of tactics of the deeper SRPGs or WRPGs.

>Grinding
Point is there are very, very, very JRPGs that do not have problems with the game being about grinding. There's no problem if it's a dungeon crawler in which a level of risk is added to the grind; often through permanent party member death! In contrast there are plenty of SRPGs and WRPGs which do not have this issue.

>>4295694
gassed

>>4295801
>Well since your shitting on the two foundational and most influential games in the fucking genre this is already a bad sign
Unlike you, I don't put anything on a pedestal just because it's popular.
>You've basically self-admitted here that the whole genre is weak and only a few outliers exist.
That is true for every single genre out there, because games are made primarily for kids, they're not rocket science.
>Point is there are very, very, very JRPGs that do not have problems with the game being about grinding.
That is really questionable.
Besides the same is true for WRPGs, and if you need to Grind in any RPG that isn't the first Wizardry trilogy or DQ1/2, you're basically admitting you're shit at the genre, so the problem is on your end.
>In contrast there are plenty of SRPGs and WRPGs which do not have this issue.
You must be joking, just to make an example of a utterly broken WRPG, see Fallout and even Fallout 2, where a single stat breaks the game in tiny little pieces and basically invalidates anything else and makes you atrociously overpowered especially if you decide to grind a bit, then there's a whole load of other problems like rerolling in BGs or character creation in TES games, especially Daggerfall, which is again, a literal cheat engine, WRPGs have just as much if not more problems than JRPGs when it comes to grinding or having shitty systems, only a fool who played little of each would deny this.

>>4295843
Geeze. You really suck at argueing. I origenally had a line saying 'you'll probably mention Daggerfall so....' but I was hoping you weren't that stupid.

Look back at my post. Notice that I am discussing RPGs as a whole genre? Now look at the rest of the thread, escpially the OP. Notice they are also doing that? Notice you are NOT doing that and would rather just try to cherry pick out examples rather than discuss the big picture?

Point is that the JRPG genre itself is brainless. You've even self-admitted that the two biggest and most influential franchises, DQ and FF, are brainless. The one's that actually take any skill or the one's that are basically dungeon crawlers. There might be a few outliers but they are nowhere near the level of the best WRPGs or SRPGs in terms of skill. The key word here is best, not cherry picking out the worst constructed WRPG ever and than acting like that means anything (which is what you did because your brain is defective).

>>4295936
>Geeze. You really suck at argueing.
Says the guy who can't even back up his claims.
>Notice that I am discussing RPGs as a whole genre?
You are not, you are literally cherry picking a few games since you haven't played anything beyond those.
>Point is that the JRPG genre
JRPG is NOT a genre just as WRPG or CRPG aren't.
>You've even self-admitted that the two biggest and most influential franchises, DQ and FF, are brainless.
So were Ultima and Wizardry, same thing is valid for the Goldbox games and pretty much the vast majority of western RPGs, especially since most of them became action based, which leads to a whole load of other problem, especially in games like TES where you can circle strafe for days.
>The key word here is best, not cherry picking out the worst constructed WRPG ever and than acting like that means anything (which is what you did because your brain is defective).
Funny you accuse me of doing this when you are doing exactly that, seems like the one with a defective brain here is you if you can't even see how ridiculous you look.
But if you want me to give you even more examples of broken ass WRPGs I can bring out more, see Planescape Torment, Gothic and whatever else.

But this is a bait thread, so whatever, have fun shitflinging.

>>4295801
>So there's a few outliers. Ok but any Saga or Valkyrire profile is nowhere near the level of tactics of the deeper SRPGs or WRPGs.
Even the easiest SaGa games like 2 and Frontier have more complex fights than WRPGs. Check this out, http://wiki.rpgclassics.com/index.php?title=SaGa_Frontier/Riki
In particular, the last section about final boss strats. You won't find such deep battles in Wizardry or ToEE.

>>4289180
You fire them up to relax. When playing a jrpg you can just chill out, relax, read some dialogue, maybe grind a bit - it's kinda like reading a book. Obviously they aren't gonna be as exciting as action games, they're not meant to be.

>>4289180
Because of cognitive dissonance. Weebs feel that it's an obligation for them to enjoy anything that comes out of Japan.

>>4298235
that's not the proper use of the term "cognitive dissonance" quit trying to sound smarter than you actually are and stick to food analogies please

>>4298494

Lol, I'm an anonymous poster in the cesspool of the internet, what good does "sounding smart" do? 4chan isn't a hugbox. I don't need other people telling me what words to use. If you feel uncomfortable with my words, then that's your problem.

>>4289180
To me the appeal of jrpg's were in the stories and the more cerebral approach to combat than the platformers/shooters/etc of the day.

Nowadays, every game has a story and tactical approaches to combat have been integrated into more exciting and action oriented games. The only appeal of jrpg's to me nowadays is the music, and since YouTube exists i can just listen to it without having to play the game

Tl;dr the genre is dated and the best aspects of it have been integrated into more objectively fun styles of games

>>4289180
I grew up playing shit like text adventures. Slow paced turn based combat (such as Fallout) can get really intense. Some jRPGs can be ok, but what turns me off the most is the typical setting rather than the combat.

>>4298627
>4chan isn't a hugbox
Sure kiddo. There are still "right" and "wrong" opinions here, even on /vr/ but to a lesser extent. Just look at the culture here, you're "correct" if you like fast action games and "wrong" if you like slow turn based games.

4chan is a hugbox, just a different kind of one.

>>4298627
it's not a matter of "feeling uncomfortable with your words" it's a matter of "haha holy fuck this anon is fucking stupid nobody's going to take his opinions seriously if he keeps misusing basic english terms" but hey if you want to keep making a dumbshit of yourself in public that's your prerogative

>open world
>rich story
>rewarding exploration
>lots of lore
>every character can behave differently, not everyone are mindless npc's like in gta
>is difficult and takes patience to figure out
>huge replay value because of classes
>balances gameplay and cinematics very well
>can beat the game using different strategies, not just mindless button smashing
>all games in a series are correlated which makes playing those games even more rewarding
>even the fucking spinoffs are good, usually they add different gameplay elements or visual styles

i feel the same way for wrpg's and crpg's.

>>4292618
>10 min per turn in chess

Thats not competitive chess, most chess matches give each player 5 - 10 min of playtime overall

>>4298803
Fuck, it's still the best place I'm aware to talk about old games.
Years ago, I used to be active on a gaming forum. Got involved in all the typical forum drama, reputation whoring and clannish behavior that these places foster. Since that place died, I've never found another place to give me that feeling of home. Most "retro" message boards seem focused on collectorfags and specific system enthusiasts, none of which I really care about, I just want to discuss various old games with moderately interesting people. If I found such a place I'd veer away from 4chan.

>>4289180
>I refuse to believe
Then there's no point discussing with you.

>>4299136
Dude, you sound extremely insecure and very angry. What's your problem? Did your teachers give you bad grades in school?

You're the first person I've encountered on 4chan who complains about "big words". You're very self-centered if you expect everyone here communicate with rules that exist only in your mind. Must use food analogies, lmao.

>>4298803
>Just look at the culture here, you're "correct" if you like fast action games and "wrong" if you like slow turn based games.

There have been plenty of threads on JRPGs and turn-based games.

>>4301294
>he's still sticking to his guns of "he must be mad because i used big words"
a. i'm so not mad that i'm still responding to you to days later, b. i legitimately can't believe that you have spent the last two days not only seriously believing that you used the term "cognitive dissonance" correctly but that you have refused to look it up between your last two dumbposts. i changed my mind, even a food analogy would be too intelligent to come from you

>>4301418
in before he responds to this post with ">to" instead of reacting to the content of it KEK

>>4299618
This.

>>4301418
Lmao, how do you know I haven't looked it up before posting it? The term has been used many times before on 4chan. You must be new here. You haven't explain why my usage is wrong, numbnuts.

Deny it all you want, but you were mad simply because you didn't the words I chose to communicate with. You didn't care about the message conveyed by my post but instead focus on my usage of words.