/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4269993
Wow! This is such a fast thread.

>>4270074
It's a fast board...not

Anyhow, I'm a patient man

I remember anon posting in another thread about his config.sys/autoexec.bat which (I think) had cd-rom and mouse support but left like 620kB conventional memory free.

Anyone got something like this?

>>4270102
You mean....they where loaded high?

- S3 Savage4 with DVI
- 233Mhz MMX
- 256MB of RAM (need less)
- Sound Blaster 16 clone
- Gravis Ultrasound ACE
- All CF drives
- MS-DOS 6.22 + Wfwg

>>4270108
Well yeah I guess but it was still an exceptionally high figure he ended up with as I recall.

Any pastebins to share?

>>4270115
>233MHz MMX
>for DOS
I seriously hope you didn't do this.
Do you at least have a turbo button?

>>4270117
You can load everything high and have almost all the conventional memory free.

>>4270119
Nope. But no problems so far, and it all depends what years you focus on.

>>4270117
>Any pastebins to share?
This is one machine.
I only load things like sound cards, networking, cdrom support, etc when needed with batch files.

https://pastebin.com/YFPdVNLi

>>4270153
That's smart.

Isn't there a way to set up a menu to select different configurations at boot?

>tfw I have a 486 IBM PS/1 tower somewhere at my parents' place but haven't seen it in years.

I definitely told them NEVER to get rid of it...

>>4270170
Yes.

http://www.ybet.be/en-operating/en-dos-5.php#selective

But this only slows things down. It's just easier to load what you need, when you need it.

>>4270179
>I definitely told them NEVER to get rid of it...
It's in the bin, Jim

Can IDE to CF adapters work in PCs that don't allow custom size HDDs?

>>4270223
What do you mean? Don't allow custom size HDDs? BIOS locked?
There are drive overlays for that.

>>4270225
Yep, the BIOS only has the 46(?) predefined types of HDDs

>>4270227
No USER or AUTO?
Anyways, drive overlay software should still work fine.
Even if not used, the CF card will still work, just not with it's whole capacity if it's bigger then the BIOS allows.

>>4270231
>No USER or AUTO?
Nope.
There's also an annoying warning message at every boot. Too bad the original 45MB HDD produces read errors
I guess XT-IDE would also be an option

>>4270238
What machine are we talking about?

>>4270248
A 286 with an obscure OEM BIOS and onboard IDE controller
I tried an 1GB HDD in it and it recognizes some of it, but the BIOS displays a warning message about the wrong size at every boot

>>4270102
>>4270117
That's actually quite easy with memmaker and if you have the DOS manual.
I have the drivers for the soundcard + CD-ROM + network card + mouse loaded up there and still have more than 600kB of conventional memory on my 486 PC.

>>4270252
Change the BIOS? It's probably compatible with many other 286/AT BIOSes also.
The XT-IDE will be slow if you have the option for a 16-bit card, you could probably try XTIDE Universal BIOS as an extension to your current one and it should work with your build in controller, if you don't want to change the BIOS.

Also watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0tp-I-iJ1k

>>4270272
>It's probably compatible with many other 286/AT BIOSes also.
No way. As I said, the main board contains custom shit like an EGA card or non-serial mouse port. It also only has 1 16 and 1 8 bit ISA slots, of which I have to use the 16bit one for a VGA card

>>4270284
Try the XTIDE BIOS or older drive overlay software if you have the memory.
If you can flash chips then you can try other BIOSes too, won't know before you try.

>>4270314
To add to that, you might have to patch up your own BIOS if you want to get rid of error messages, etc, even with XTIDE BIOS.

Post pics also. Seems interesting.

>>4269993
Before anyone roasts me for "destroying an antique", I'm just using the case for a beige unit until I can get another beige ATX from somewhere.

Gateway 2000 PC-133 case (originally had a Pentium board in it with a small amount of ram)
Asus 440BX board
Pentium II 400Mhz
256MB RAM
GeForce MX440SE (shit card but it works ok)
Matrox Millenium II
Windows 98SE
40GB Maxtor IDE drive

I also have an IBM PS/2 Model 70 laying around I'm trying to fix. I think the PSU is dead.

>>4270337
There are no "antique" computers.
Unless you count mechanical ones.

>>4270367
Well some people care about the original parts of an OEM a lot so I gave a disclaimer.

Once I get a new case for the P2 parts I'm going to put the old Pentium board back in.

>>4270371
Yes, some people are indeed autistic.
So yeah, good that you put that disclaimer there.

>>4270337
How do you find that Matrox card for DOS gaming?

Any compatibility or driver issues to speak of?

>>4269993
nice thread, got me to bootup my dos/win98 box
>athlon64 3200+
>512MB Ram
>128GB SSD
>Diamond Monster 3D II
>SB Live with pure DOS sb16 emulation enabled
no need for DOS as Windows98 command prompt only option works just fine.

>>4270396
It works well in my opinion. Some others have said that it has issues with scrolling, but I haven't noticed it. It runs everything I've thrown at it pretty well.

>>4270413
>pure DOS sb16 emulation enabled

There's nothing pure about it and I sure hope you're not using that for music.

>>4270413
>dos/win98 box
>>athlon64 3200+

>>4270321

>>4270185
>It's just easier to load what you need, when you need it.
Not really an option for things that have to be loaded by config.sys though.

>>4270427
I don't care about period accuracy and it works perfectly
>>4270421
music sounds great and I meant that it works under DOS as sometimes sb16 emu simply doesn't work with some motherboards

>>4270447
I refuse to believe that emulated sb16 music works well. You're either lying or rhythmically disabled.

>>4270447
>I don't care about period accuracy

that's not the point, you're going to cause yourself untold amounts of problems with DOS games with that CPU as a lot of DOS games ran their speed off the speed of the CPU. Combine that with a 2.0Ghz CPU and you're just asking for trouble.

>>4270268
>DOS NIC drivers

y tho

>>4270413
>any SB product made after the 90s
its shit. its just SB in name only

>All those people who think DOS machines must be Athlon64's and Pentium 2's

>>4270119
Excellent setup for early 90's gaming. I have one almost the same. 233 is the fastest any desktop P5 was rated for. You'd know that it you'd been alive in the early 90's.

>>4270223
Yes. You'll probably have to settle for a best match or modify the lookup table.

>>4270464
sound blasters were never "good"

>>4270452
it is certainly bad for 80's/ early 90's but I don't care for this era as I rather play the smiga version. all I tried had no issue (blood, duke3d, doom, quake, monkey island...).

>>4270468
Athlon64 was released in 2003, it's XP-age tech.

They don't have to be, but for best results they should be. If your CPU is too fast you will cause yourself issues with game speed a lot. Not to mention you need an ISA sound card, not a PCI as PCI in dos is shit, especially what the anon was talking about with emulated sb16 synth in DOS mode. It never works well and it causes the music to be way out of rhythm or flat out play the wrong note half the time.

Newer motherboards are not going to have ISA slots so there's no point in using them. For Windows 98 you can get away with it as PCI works fine there.

It's not really about period accuracy/hipsterism, it's just what works. So why deviate from it? Anything newer you might as well just put 2000/XP on and use DOSBox on it while playing older games. No point in shooting yourself in the foot just to prove some old guys on /vr/ wrong

>>4270478
Well just keep it in mind. I'd highly recommend picking up a $15 real sb16 off ebay though if you have ISA slots. I promise you it will be much better.

>>4270102
CTMouse and VIDE-CDD.SYS use like 8k combined.
run mscdex with /e to enable EMS and you can easily squeak under a 620kb free footprint in DOS.

SHSUCDX should be used on the rare games that have conflicts with EMS memory, but still need a CD driver.

Try to load your sound drivers high, or use a non PNP card that only needs the SET BLASTER variable to work if you somehow need more.

>>4270480
sb16 emu is good enough for me, sounds just like I remember. no ISA slot so it's the only option. the desktop case is a p233 iiirc and has isa slot, I'll get a card for it next time I get home, I have an AWE 32 somewhere.

Can Pentium IIs be throttled back to 386 speeds by turning off the cache in BIOS like original Pentiums?

>>4270472
SB2.0 is the bar.
It is the definition of "good enough".

>>4270490
You can try something like SetMul and disable the L2 cache, not sure what results you'll get though. There's also MoSlo.

>>4270471
Shit setup for a dedicated DOS setup. As many games are from the 80's and won't like your silly MMX and all of the early 90's games already max out on a 486DX4. You'd know that it you'd been alive in the early 90's. :^)

>>4270487
That's because you don't remember it and you have nothing to compared it to.

>>4270490
Nope, the sheer cycle speed is enough to ruin it. Even Pentiums need to be downloaded to properly run for some games, even with cache disabled.

>>4270459
How else are you going to connect to the network? With a NIC of course, most likely with a RJ-45 ethernet based connector, if not AUI to RJ-45 or a 10BASE-2.
How else are you going to easily transfer files without a sweat, chat on the IRC or browse BBSes? Map your home servers shares as drives or host a FTP server?

>>4270487
>no ISA slot so it's the only option
Wrong, get an CMI8738 card (an older one)
It has an OPL3 clone that's pretty accurate. Another alternative is the ESS Solo-1, it also has an OPL3

>>4270524
>inb4 dial-up

>>4270471
>implying 233MMX in early 90s

>>4270527
Don't mess with him, he was shitting his pants in the early 90's, he knows what he's talking about.

>>4270119
You only need the Turbo button for *REALLY* early DOS games. Like, from 1980 or 81. Anything made after the 286 came out (1982), the programmers knew how to have the software deal with the new "super fast" processors.

Using a fast processor to run DOS games is just fine for 99.44% of the stuff you're going to use. Fact is, the faster the better, especially when you start getting into FPS's and open world environments of the 90's.

>>4270550
>the programmers knew how to have the software deal with the new "super fast" processors.
Tell that to fucking Wing Commander

>>4270550
>You only need the Turbo button for *REALLY* early DOS games. Like, from 1980 or 81. Anything made after the 286 came out (1982), the programmers knew how to have the software deal with the new "super fast" processors.
Hei anon! 1991 called, they wanted to play Wing Commander 2 on your DOS machine...oh wait, no turbo, disabling the cache alone won't work for this game... sorry!

>>4270550
>Using a fast processor to run DOS games is just fine for 99.44% of the stuff you're going to use. Fact is, the faster the better, especially when you start getting into FPS's and open world environments of the 90's.
Pretty useless if you already can play all those heavier DOS games at their max framerates but still have a compatible CPU and Turbo button to also play those very early ones.
There are sweet spots, what's best for DOS and it's games, what's best for Win9x/32 and it's games, etc, but people are usually too dumb, poor or lazy to build proper machines for each job, so they make dumb arguments to hide that fact.

I don't think you're one of those people, so don't do that just because others do.

>>4270413
>>SB Live with pure DOS sb16 emulation enabled
holy shit my sides

Would it be theoretically possible (or practical) to make an FPGA clone of say an original IBM PC or AT?

>>4270635
Already done.

>>4270635
>(or practical)
Obviously, the old hardware won't last forever, FPGAs being the best option for emulating the hardware.
Why wouldn't it be practical?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr2r_mvKfuQ

This man claims Pentium 4s make the best DOS/Win98 combo builds.
Can you refute him?

>>4270635
https://github.com/archlabo/Frix

>>4270550
Even old windows games can have problems with newer machines.

>>4270703
Nope. He's dead nuts on it.

>finally got Tyrian working on my pentium 3 laptop
yay

If you're really worried about the 3 really old games that won't run on a Pentium, find a 386 and use that. I've gotten them as cheap as $20 from a thrift shop before. (One I ran headless and used it as a NAT router with a couple of 3C509 NIC's in it, worked perfectly)

>>4270703
His only reason is "they are cheap"

>>4270703
This setup is "good" for later dos games( using the shitty GM sound of win 98 or the game id os with cd music as Warcrft 2). better getting a better Pc +Xp and dosbox.

>>4270525
i'm not getting wasting my money on ebay to satisfy your audiophile mental disorder

>>4271097
They are like 15 bucks, lel
Even dosbox has better emulation than your current card

>>4270640
>>4270643
>>4270792
Nice work but
>i486sx
>upwards of $300 for the dev boards to run it

>>4271118
It's not really supposed to be more than a demo that it's possible

>>4271123
Well that much is obvious now.

This is kinda what I meant by
>practical
in my original post

>>4271127
The FPGAs itself wouldn't be too expensive, especially with higher production volumes
it's just that nobody currently has any interest in an FPGA PC clone

>>4270102
You mean this one?

>>4270459
Well I use it for file transfert and internet of course -- FTP, IRC and web stuff on windows 3.1.

Anyway, best soundtrack using OPL2 on PC-AT :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUp6u_cjerQ

>>4270504
Wrong and wrong. You'd know that it you'd been alive in the early 90's

>>4270527
>implying
>wasn't implied
/v/ or /b/ might be more your cup of tea.

>>4271324
i know you
u want sum gotek?

>>4271346
High quality bait, kek

>>4269993
an old dell i found on the side of the road

Pentium 4 - 2 ghz
Rage 128
512 mb ram
40 gb hdd
dual boot win 98se / win xp

good for running hi rez dos games like screamer 2 and build engine games but many still run too fast. I use a program called slowdown which is the only slowdown program that works on this pc, it puts the cpu in a sort of power saving mode causing it to slow down.

>>4271346
You mean the "gotek hater"? The guy who said suck it with your goteks when the other faggot was adding "kiddo" to the end of every post, from that thread?
That's me! I'm pretty sure the "kiddo" guy is the one you're replying to, as he says "you'd been alive etc". I wonder if he's the same guy who said you can't have two ISA sound cards, as that was the main argument of the shitposts that day.

I don't actually hate goteks, I just like HxC more. I generally help people when they want over on /g/ as I have some experience with them.
I also like your bait on /g/ with the gotek picture titled "guaranteed replies".

>>4270703
He never said that, he just said they are cheap and easy to come by.
See >>4270573 already was explained why this is a thing.

>>4270885
...or you know, find a proper 486 that also runs all the latter DOS games well and also the older ones thanks to disabled cache and Turbo button.
The whole point of a DOS machine is to play as many DOS games as well as possible. Why waste space with a separate 396? Also trying to combine a DOS games machine with a Win9x games machine will just mean you will have shit support for both.

>>4271118
>upwards of $300 for the dev boards to run it
You can get cheaper FPGA dev boards, you could also get a FPGA machine like the MiST and modify the core for it, if it hasn't been done already, haven't checked about that a while.

>>4271346
Owner of a HxC and Gotek here. The HxC is really good but the quality/price ratio sucks big time compared to a HxC flashed Gotek (I own a dozen of them in synths and DOS machines).

Really just get a gotek for $20 and flash it with HxC ($10-12 for each gotek afterward the updates are free). Furthermore the last firmware add compatibility with graphical LCD and OLED!

>>4271667
If a Pentium is too fast for a certain DOS game, then so is a 486. Hell, a 386 may very well be too fast as well.

You want purity, so let's be pure here. The Turbo button is just a work-around for a problem inherent in the software you are choosing to run. You may actually want to do this thing right, and get an IBM PC with an 8088 or 8086 with a HUGE 640k of ram.

>>4271706
>If a Pentium is too fast for a certain DOS game, then so is a 486. Hell, a 386 may very well be too fast as well.
It's not though. Everything from Arcade Volleyball to Wing Commander will run fine on a 486 with disabled caches and with a turbo button. Pretty much covering the whole spectrum from early 80's to early 90's without problems.
Yet it can run all the latter DOS games like Daggerfall and Future Shock fine also. Quake, Carmageddon, etc being already something you want to run on a Win9x machine with a proper sound card and 3D acceleration.

>You want purity, so let's be pure here.
Who was talking about pure? The argument was "The whole point of a DOS machine is to play as many DOS games as well as possible. "

>You may actually want to do this thing right, and get an IBM PC with an 8088 or 8086 with a HUGE 640k of ram.
Already do, but we are talking about owning one machine for a particular set of things.

>>4271694
The HxC is by far, FAR better quality than the Gotek though.
They also sell Goteks pre flashed with HxC now.

HxC with a SD FlashAir card is #1.

>>4271667
This changes the range of playable games, it doesn't solve anything.

>>4271719
>Already do, but we are talking about owning one machine for a particular set of things.

Right, get your 8088 IBM PC for those 4 games you want that won't play nice with a Pentium 4, then get your maxed out 3.0+GHz P4 with 1 gig of memory, an nVidia 6800 Ultra, and a 120 gig SSD, for every single other DOS and Win9x game ever made. That way you can run UT, HL, CS, Doom, and Quake at high resolution with all of the eye candy turned on, and yet still play PoP or Rogue Squadron just fine.

>>4271728
See
>>4271719
It changes the range to proper DOS ear, as it should be for a _DOS_ machine.

>>4271737
You don't need that 8088, a dedicated DOS machine is all you need that plays nice with the early and late DOS games.

Did you even read the post you're replying to?
>>If a Pentium is too fast for a certain DOS game, then so is a 486. Hell, a 386 may very well be too fast as well.
>It's not though. Everything from Arcade Volleyball to Wing Commander will run fine on a 486 with disabled caches and with a turbo button. Pretty much covering the whole spectrum from early 80's to early 90's without problems.

A Pentium 4 is way overkill for Win9x, lots of compatibility issues, for most DOS games it's almost useless, even if it has "ISA slots". Even if you're going to imply that early P4 boards are fine for Windows 98 drivers visa, it isn't for many of the devices/expansions/peripherals from around the time.
The P4 is only a option if you can't or don't want to spend money on something better, you get what you pay for, aka problems and issues. Saying a P4 is good for DOS smells like bait though.

A PIII Tualatin with a 512MB of RAM, a proper AGP card, even high up things like Radeon 4650 and GeForce 7800GS _will_ work for Windows 98 and the games of the era, allowing for a nice 1600x1200 resolution and high refresh rate on your professional CRT tube.
SSD's work fine with PATA-SATA bridges, Audigy2 ZS paired with a Aureal Vortex 2, two Voodoo 2 cards in SLI. A Build like that would allow for all the mid-90's to early 2000's Win9x/Win32 games.

>>4271706
>IBM PC with an 8088 or 8086 with a HUGE 640k of ram.
>He doesn't have a 1MB expansion enabling upper memory and a dedicated EMS memory expansion

>>4270187
Parents don't give a shit about their kids old stuff. They just trash it.

I knew someone who had a NeoGeo AES with a few games. He bought the console and games when they were brand new. He told me, that he even kept the boxes and everything. When he got older he moved out and put the console together with some other personal stuff in a box and said he will get the box later when he got settled in at the new place.
One year later he came back to get the box, but it was gone. When he asked his mother where'd she put it, she said that she looked into the box, decided it's old stuff from his son and threw it into the trash.
He obviously was devastated. What pissed him off the most, is that she just threw it into trash. No fleamarket or eBay. He will never forgive her for that, he always said.

>>4271972
>Parents don't give a shit about their kids old stuff. They just trash it.
You must have real bad parents, my brother who is several years older than me, his stuff is all boxed up in the basement as he hasn't lived at home for years already.

I have an old Pentium 3 box I am planning to make into a DOS machine, only DOS.
As a Lignux supremacist I refuse to touch winblows 9x even though it may have some good games.

My question is how many DOS games really need a videocard, especially with the power of Pentium 3?
Is it true that you need a videocard to go above 320x200 256 colours?
Is there such thing as quality 90s videocards that are passively cooled?

>>4272176
>As a Lignux supremacist I refuse to touch winblows 9x even though it may have some good games.
Man, you're just being stupid with this
>hur, I want a box for one proprietary operating system, but not a different one from the same manufacturer.
Real hardware is whats needed mostly for 1995-2000 Windows titles. If you're going to be just in Dos why not just DosBOX your shit?

>>4272176
DOS games are like 99% software rendered, so you don't need a powerful card. It does need to be compatible though. What kind of card do you have in your P3 box. Most early 90s cards are passively cooled.

>>4272203
Right now it doesn't have any GPU installed.
Let's say I cave in and install Win95 for access to more games (98 has unremovable niggernet exploder integrated into the OS).
Are there any quality 3D accelerators (Voodoo or better) that are passively cooled?
Is there any such thing as a graphics card that improved 2D performance in Win9x or DOS games by adding hardware sprites, hardware background/tilemapping, or more memory for increased resolution, colour depth, or animations?

>>4271661
Which one of you faggots was the one pretending to have used early PNP mobos and claiming hardware resources couldn't conflict? I want to say it was kiddo-fag.

>>4272269
IBM PC didn't had hardware sprites and tiling because it wasn't intended for gaming and then hardware was good enough that 2D acceleration became obsolete anyway

What is the chance that my old PCs work if my parents stored it in a cold garage (basically outdoors, but without rain) for at least 10 years? Or should I just order a "new" one?

>>4272312
Plug it in and find out.
The "new" one on ebay was probably stored in similar conditions.

>>4272312
If they're 486 or earlier they probably have those cancerous barrel batteries. Snip those off the board ASAP, and pray they haven't already leaked acid all over the board and corroded traces.

>>4272287
It was the kiddo fag, I never talked about PnP and I never used the word kid or kiddo.
I can't remember well anymore what even the argument was, obviously things will conflict when they where on the same address, that's why even reading the manual a little will tell you how to configure your shit properly if you have no brains.
I can't see why that shitposting was even acceptable, thinking about it in retrospect.

>>4272176
>As a Lignux supremacist...
...you may fuck off from here.
This play is pretend autists only, we don't _actually_ accept autists here.

>>4272307
PCs of the time where really sad shit.

>>4270446
You should have actually read the posts. You can load devices with batch files using 3rd party utilities, just like shows in his pastebin.

So yes, it's faster and works just as well.

Figured I'd post my DOS/W95 machine here. It *used* to be an IBM Aptiva, but the motherboard died. It now houses:

IBM PC 300GL 6282 motherboard
IBM Aptiva 2176 riser card & PSU
Pentium MMX 200
256KB Pipeline-Burst Cache
64MB* SDRAM
Integrated Cirrus Logic GL-GD5446 2MB
Magic 3D Voodoo 4MB
Yamaha Audician 32 Plus (real OPL3 core)
Quantum Fireball 20GB (drive overlay used to bypass 8.4GB limit)
Pioneer DVD-RW drive (original 8X CD unit won't read most discs)

Surprisingly, this frankenstein PC actually works - and with a CPU faster than the original would accept. It's fast enough for early 3D accellerated W95/DOS games, but slow enough to run most DOS games without issue, bar certain 386 and 8088 titles.

More pics incoming...

*actually 256 + 128MB, but BIOS only sees each stick as 32MB

>tfw my parallel CD drive works even with a 286

Back panel, USB is actually usable with W95, but not all USB flash drives work...

>>4272573
Why shouldn't it?

>>4272584
It was made in the late 90s

>>4272589
It's cool...you know... that we use specifications, like a parallel port and x86 instruction set, makes even two things made decades apart compatible with each other.

Insides... the motherboard and riser wern't meant for each other: tall memory won't fit, and the top PCI slot is not fully functional (slave slot?)

>>4272567
>>4272576
>>4272598
kek, impressive in it's own light

>>4272603
Thanks - it was the only board I found at the time that would fit the case, riser and PSU.

Here's a clearer shot of the inside - the machine was left in a damp cupboard for ~8 years before I got it, hence the rusty case.

What programmer do I need if I want to dump old EEPROMs?

>>4272620
An EEPROM programmer. Duh.
Pin counts depends on the EEPROM you want to dump.

>>4272614
Here's the Voodoo1 - I added small heatsinks as it was getting a bit too toasty for my liking.

>>4272620
GQ-4X will work.

>>4272654
Final pic, the 20GB hard disk. Using W95B with FAT32 to use all available space, installed on top of a drive overlay to bypass the 8.4GB limit of the BIOS. The position makes cable management behind the PSU an absolute bitch, but I think I did a reasonable job.

>tfw your Matrox card has scrolling issues with early DOS games but you don't want to give up dat picture quality

>>4272680
...what picture quality?

>>4272631
Can I dump the whole BIOS of an old PC from DOS?

>>4272705
Some boards have an update utility for DOS that can dump the original BIOS to disk - I believe some ASUS boards used such tools. As for others, I'm not really sure - I don't think there is a universal software tool to do it.

>>4272712
Apparently it can be done with debug in DOS

>>4272718
This.

>>4272692
90s Matrox cards had fantastic image clarity.

>>4272726
Many cards of the era do.

>>4272731

I went through Trident, S3, ATI, Matrox and 3dfx cards in the up until DVI rendered the RAMDAC and analog out irrelevant and nothing held a candle to the 2D quality I got out of the 4MB Millennium I had in the mid 90s

>>4272776
>Nothing is as good as X that I also had in my [nostalgia] era
Sure thing buddy.

Also how convenient to forget the non-RAMDAC cards that where slightly slower but had amazing quality.

>>4272776
So you haven't don't a recent side by side comparison? Only dictating from memory?
Nice anecdote.

>>4272203
>DOS games are like 99% software rendered

ITT: people who have never heard of OpenGL

>>4272790
DOS games had glide support. No OpenGL though.
If we are talking _pure DOS_.

>>4272790
Plus, he's still right. The few glide games you can count on your finger and toes.
99.9% where software rendered.

>>4272782

It's in my DOS box right now. I had a Rage iic in there previously for what 3d acceleration it had but couldn't stand the muddy picture and went back to the Matrox.

>>4272802
>that's what nostalgia fags actually believe

>>4272796
There are way, way, WAY more Glide games out there, especially ones you actually want to play, then there are DOS games that won't run without a Turbo button.

>>4272808
>t.visionlet
What's the OD on those coke bottles?

Matrox cards were indeed the standard fitment for 2D PC workstations (aside from Macs obviously) back in the day. Anyone who says otherwise is either trolling or wasn't around back then.

>t. photo retoucher from '97 onwards.


Off-topic slightly, remember when we had to output digital stuff to film via an Agfa PCR or similar before digital RA4 minilabs were a thing? Inkjets and dye-subs were so shitty and expensive to run back then.

>>4272776
Most Matrox cards use fifth-order filters on their VGA, where with other brands it can differ a lot. ELSA and Number Nine built quality S3 cards. nVidia Riva had a bad rep. Can't see a difference between my G200 and Savage4 though.

>>4272813
>Posts a picture of glQuake which doesn't run in DOS

>>4272674
>quantum fireball

On a scale of 747 to Concorde, how jet engine is it?

>>4271346
>i know you
>doesn't know
kek

>>4273625
Closer to 747, the WD Caviar 1.6GB it originally had was MUCH louder.

>>4273502
>glQuake which doesn't run in DOS
lolwut

Show me glQuake *not* running in DOS, but running in an NT environment instead, say Windows Vista.

You know what'd be cool, a portable computer that emulates old dos boxes. The battery life could be great and I could play Zeliard and shit on the go.

>>4273760
Why not play the PC88 or X1 version of Zeliard?
10" notebooks are pretty cheap and have a decent battery life.

>>4273769
Are they any better? The PC88 at least is in jap only AFAIK, but I didn't look for patches, and they all have similar palette limitations.
Also related, anyone got a scan of the map that came with the game?

>>4273736
Only VQuake runs in DOS. glQuake requires Win9x.

>>4272813
GLQuake runs under Win32.
Original Quake ran under DOS. That's why you are confusing them, there aren't that many DOS glide games, you're just counting Windows ones too.

Glide DOS games, Tomb Raider, Descent, Carmageddon, those also require a patch to work and don't work out of the box, there's around a dozen more DOS glide games after them, that's about it.

>>4273736
k

>>4273440
Nobody is saying they weren't. But that was late 90's and early 2000's.
Not early/mid 90's. Their earlier cards where nothing special, especially in retrospect when you can own even the best cards of the time for pocket change.

>>4273760
I have a GPD Win I use for that.

VESALocal based 486@150 and 50mhz bus speed.
Main usage is Doom and some programming. Those older systems can become a serious fetish. Used DosBox and was pretty sceptical towards the crowd who collected 486 systems, but I have to admit it's a blast. Especially the late model boards with the high bus speeds.

>>4273857
>VESALocal based 486@150 and 50mhz bus speed.
nice bullshit

>inb4 it's a P*O*D*

>>4269993
>Is a box
>uses DOS
>non-DOSBox

>>4273857
A DX4 won't clock to 150MHz.
So either it's not running at 150MHz or it's not an 486, but a overclocked 5x86 or related instead.

>>4273857
>486 at 150mhz
lmao

>>4273857

>>4273863
Probably an IBM/Cyrix 5x86.

>>4273912
Then why say 486? Those aren't 486.

>>4273915
They are socket 3 so that's why most people call it a 486. They aren't Pentium's either, just x86 compatible cpu's that happen to fit 486 mainboards.

Free if anybody wants.

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/sys/d/big-lot-of-computers-gaming/6314319190.html

>>4273915
Architecturally they're basically 486s and not bentiums

>>4274087
See
>just x86 compatible cpu's that happen to fit 486 mainboards

>>4274056
That went quick.

>>4273682
I've found recordings of the two drives now:

Original Caviar 21600 1.6GB:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyQZ0qoPhSU

Replaced with Fireball lct 20 20.4GB:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X23IdP9C1Aw

>>4274185
>That went quick.
Some reddit fag got it, sadly.

>>4274091
The AMD's are basically 486's, no new functions or features. The Cyrix/IBM offerings do have new features.

>>4269993
so guys
did that Turbo button have a purpose or not I don't remember ever noticing a difference

>>4274307
It makes a difference in very, very early DOS games that were designed to in on a 4.7MHz 8086 or 8088. The reason you never noticed a difference was, by the time the 286 came out, the software designers started to write programs to take advantage of the newer faster cpu speeds.

People to sperg out over not having a Turbo button on DOS builds can't name more than a a couple of software titles that actually require that turbo button to work correctly.

>>4274317
Why didn't turbo buttons throttle down to a fixed speed regardless of CPU. If my P200MMX gets throttled to 100 MHz it's still faster than my old 25 MHz 486.

>>4274307
It downclocks the CPU and bus.
Depending how your is wired, engaging or disengaging Turbo will be very obvious, especially if you're running something like a latter game. A game like Doom will easily go from 38 FPS to 4 FPS.
To be honest, most turbo buttons I know in schools and on computers these days, if you find an old one, are wired wrong or not actually wired at all, so it won't make a difference.

>>4274317
>People to sperg out over not having a Turbo button on DOS builds can't name more than a a couple of software titles that actually require that turbo button to work correctly.
Oh, like Wing Commander and all the other Turbo Pascal games? We aren't even talking about the early 80's games here, those where 90's games.
You yourself don't know what games need to be downloaded and caches disabled does not mean others don't, there's plenty of them.
It's not a computer made for DOS games unless you have a Turbo option, that's it, no amount of your clueless crying won't change that.

>Why didn't turbo buttons throttle down to a fixed speed regardless of CPU. If my P200MMX gets throttled to 100 MHz it's still faster than my old 25 MHz 486.
Most did, you had to set the fixed speed yourself. Pentium with Turbo was already a fuckup for most things, it was too fast even with Turbo downlocks on the CPU and Bus, and with caches disabled, most things still ran too fast. That's why 486 is considered the sweetspot. Runs all the old things if needed and runs everything new from the mid 90's perfectly too.

>>4274464
Doom will go berserk if you disengage the "turbo" in game. Various timers will become messed up and Doom guy will spin like a lunatic.

Turbo Pascal games often suffer from a timer issue that appears when running them on a system above 200Mhz. It causes a divide overflow. It's patchable in that case. Don't know what the exact issue is with Wing Commander, I should try it on my DOS machine.

>>4274542
WC cannot into timing and just goes into hyperspeed on anything faster than a midrange 386. Especially the simulator section.

>>4274464
>486...runs everything new from the mid 90's perfectly too
>Quake, Doom II, Half Life, Diablo, Tomb Raider, Duke Nukem 3D, Interstate 76, Redneck Rampage, Myst, etc, etc, etc

>>4274639
Doom2 was fine on a 486dx33. Needed at least 8mb ram if you wanted to run 4way IPX games though.

>>4274464
>Wing Commander

Without looking it up, name another one. Oh wait, you can't.

So I posted in another thread about the Fujitsu Cordant I was getting:

>P2/400
>128MB PC100
>Generic SB16 clone on PCI
>ATI Rage Pro on AGP

It turned up and is awesome, gotta love that 3mm thick cast aluminium case. Anyhow, I want to improve the graphics and sound solutions and have ordered an ISA AWE 64 gold to that effect. Graphics-wise I popped into my local pc repair place this afternoon and the guy hooked me up with a (very dusty but working) PCI Voodoo 2 for £5. Now I just need a 2D card...

tl;dr: Matrox G200 or S3 Trio (both AGP) for 2D DOS gaming?

>>4274675
Forgot to mention mobo is Asus P2B and I'll be running pic related too, no newer than that to keep it retro.

>>4274675
I'd do the Matrox, but that's just me.

>>4274675
>Asus P2B
That's pretty slick. Did you know you can get that thing up to 1.4GHz using a Powerleap PL-iP3/T? I've done this upgrade before, and it transforms the computer.

The Powerleaps can be a little pricy though, but you can get it up to 900 MHz with a cheap slotket adapter. I just checked eBay, and there's a slotket for $20, and a PIII 900 for $22. That would be a huge upgrade right there.

>>4274697
Aren't Matrox cards known to have scrolling issues under DOS though? Would be very nice for desktop use I suppose but that's not really the primary intended use of this machine.

>>4274717
I could just pop in a 1 or 1.1ghz Slot 1 cpu though. Why would I bother with a slotket? Is it just cost/availability?

Not having a go, just asking in case I've missed an advantage in the Socket 370 chips.

>>4274737
Later S3 cards are also known to have issues. You should test both with something known to trigger it, like Commander Keen, and see how they behave.

Does a 1993 Dell XPS machine count? Currently have DOS 5 and WIN3.1 on it

>>4274750
guts

>>4274746
Compatibility lists I've seen show all Matrox cards having issues with Keen and all S3 cards having none.

Oh well, they're cheap enough I guess. Will pick up both and settle on one when I've performed my own tradeoff evaluation. Unless there are more (period-correct) options to consider?

>>4274757
Not unless you've got vlb.

>>4274772
No other good AGP or PCI 2D cards?

What about Tseng or Cirrus Logic? They were popular back in the day as I recall.

>>4274675
>Voodoo2
>£5
You got really lucky there! Those things go for at least ten times that amount online.

As for the 2D card, all are good options. The G200 will provide a clear 2D picture quality when passing through the Voodoo2, even at higher resolutions. It does have some issues with DOS games, such as later Commander Keen games, Jazz Jackrabbit (though it will need to be patched to run on your CPU), and some screen tearing in Duke3D.

The Rage Pro that came with the system is more compatible with DOS games (only issues with CKeen and Alien Trilogy Hi-color mode), has hardware DVD accelleration when using the ATI DVD Player, and has its own CIF3D API to have fun with.

All S3 Trio models are free of issues, though some games may need the S3VBE utility to run in VESA modes.

Here's a good resource for DOS game compatibility on AGP/PCI cards:
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

>>4274785
You're talking ISA and VLB in those periods though.

>>4274750
>>4274754
What's the specs? I see a WD Caviar drive in there, is it loud?

>>4274806
Yeah my eyes lit up when he pulled it off the shelf and blew about an inch of dust off it. He said name a price so I pulled out a fiver lol.

Aren't the early ATI cards a bit blurry output-wise. Obviously I have nothing to compare it with at the moment but I'd like to feed my Lacie Electron Blue IV 22-incher with the best possible signal available at the time. Other points noted and much appreciated.

>>4274808
ISA i can deal with. Have two free slots after I put in the AWE.

The bandwidth wouldn't be an issue for pure 2D would it?

>>4274813
going off memory (its been in storage for a while sadly), think its a 100MHZ pentium, 20GB HDD (not original, the initial hdd was gone when i got the machine), 4MB #9 GXE 64 Pro, Soundblaster 16 equivalent audio (CTxxxx something)

HD is somewhat loud but not awful. can play most 3d dos games. DOOM runs fine at high res

If 486 or Pentium I is the sweet spot for playing all DOS games what is the sweet spot for playing all Win9x games?

What is the sweet spot for playing WinNT games from '99 to '04?

(I consider Half Life 2 to be the first modern PC game and the cutoff point where all games before it are classic)

>>4274850
>what is the sweet spot for playing all Win9x games?

Pentium 4 3.2 on an 865 motherboard, nVidia 6800 Ultra or ATi 9800XT, Aureal Vortex 2, SSD, 1 gig of DDR memory. (Win98 tends to freak out with more than a gig)

>>4274830
The ATI cards are okay for output quality, but certainly not on the level of a Matrox. They technically have a faster RAMDAC than the S3 cards (230MHz for ATI Rage Pro vs 135MHz for S3 Trio), but I'm not sure which has a clearer image in practice.

The number one thing I'd check is to use a passthrough cable that is short but well shielded. Combine this with a quality VGA cable coonecting to the moitor and you shouldn't have too many issues.

Looked up the monitor, I certainly envy you! I'm stuck with a fairly standard 17 inch HP D8902A.

>>4274871
Do I actually need passthrough seeing as the monitor has two inputs? Surely I can just run cables to both cards and switch over manually.

It cost me a tenner btw :)

>>4274876
That'd be even better, as it will help reduce interference!

>>4274876
Ever tried that with a Sega 32X?

>>4274903
I don't own one. They're expensive here in the UK and I didn't consider the library worth the outlay. MD/CD is great though.

486DX4-100 ... on Windows98SE (for its updated DOS)

I should hunt down something better than the Virba16 it came with, but good sound cards are expensive to me.

It has an old 6GB HDD, but I should try to get one of those Compact Flash to IDE devices, because I am getting tired to transferring stuff via CD-RW or detaching the HDD and hooking up to my more modern system via USB.


I have been desiring a Pentium 3 lately, as I have been wanting to install and use J-Win98SE and all those games made that would be great for that system. I swore in that era I had an Athlon64 or something (just more cost effective in those days).


As for a recommended game ... I will go with Solar Winds and Zone 66. I did love the old Epic MegaGames titles on DOS.

>>4275039
If it has a PCI card, get a SATA adapter and run an SSD.

>>4275039
P3 era probably an Athlon XP or Sempron depending on your poverty level.

>>4275039
>tfw dicking around too much taking too many hits and don't have enough energy to hyperdrive to the endgame even after gathering every single resource available

>>4274639
You're the guy who does not know the difference between Windows and DOS games, do you?
The guy who thought GLQuake is a DOS game.

Topkek, fuck off retard. All the actual DOS games you listed there run perfectly on a 486DX4.

>>4274542
>Doom will go berserk if you disengage the "turbo" in game. Various timers will become messed up and Doom guy will spin like a lunatic.
It's goes into a slideshow for me.

>Turbo Pascal games often suffer from a timer issue that appears when running them on a system above 200Mhz.
It's actually far less, Wing Commander 1 will run way too fast even on a 66MHz 486, unless you use turbo and disable caches.

>>4274652
Wing Commander 2
There's a list if you want it, so you don't need to keep asking me.

>>4274806
>You got really lucky there! Those things go for at least ten times that amount online.
On eBay, sure.
Here on local sites they go for 0.10€ sometimes, I've got a crate of just Voodoo cards stacked up already, surprice surprice, most are Voodoo 2's.

>>4274850
Pentium 3. If we are talking about further most compatibility and perfectly fine running games.

>What is the sweet spot for playing WinNT games from '99 to '04?
I'd say 2002+, as olden will play fine on the Win9x/Win32 shitbox.
Else newer, they will play fine on your modern computer. You won't need to build a specific machine for it.

>>4274865
>>what is the sweet spot for playing all Win9x games?
Fuck off retard. Read the _whole_ thread.
It's not even remotely a sweet spot, it's just the cheapest and easiest for dummies to get.
Not to mention, only A3D? No Voodoo 2's? (oh right, P4, won't work well). Etc.

>>4271758
>>4270980

>>4274871
>Looked up the monitor, I certainly envy you!
>>4274876
>It cost me a tenner btw :)
always gives me a good laugh seeing people talk about this shit like it's rare or expensive
that shits like professional crts are cheap as fuck here
the same lacie ones go for 5 yurobux and are available in the masses

>>4273736
How about proof that actually makes sense instead?

>>4275165
And you're the guy who doesn't know what a DOS GUI is.

>>4275216
I'm used to seeing US listings posted here which usually have utterly ridiculous pricing due to meme-factor and "clued up" sellers.

I've got plenty of top-end CRTs for less or free in the recent past too.

>>4275640
Tell me where to find good quality CRT PC monitors.
Craigslist in my area is pretty dry.
Don't think to keep this a secret to keep them all to yourself.
You well know that the normies will bring them to "recycling centers" (they are shipped to africa where negores smash them with rocks and throw them into the river).

>>4275656
I'm yuro m8.

Ask businesses where they were generally used? Set up a free "recycling" service and let them find you?

>>4275656
Fucking forget it. They don't really exist anymore. Just get a 4:3 LCD and be happy.

>>4275793
Eeew, the great majority 4:3 LCDs have horrible picture because they are earlier generation LCDs dating back to before widespread adoption of widescreen ie. early 2000s.

Why did normies throw out their CRT monitors so much faster than they threw out their CRT TVs?

>>4275672
What is the best site to set up a recyling service? Any ideas other than craigslist?

What types of business were most likely to have used quality CRT PC monitors and still keep them in storage?

>>4275172
The 200Mhz limit is Turbo Pascal games that use crt.delay and get a divide overflow. Wing Commander doesn't seem to suffer from that issue.

>>4275840
I actually scored a 17" Dell from a thrift store that's actually pretty good. Paid $5 for it, too.

>>4275565
It's not Windows 9x though. Windows 9x is a whole 32-bit extension to DOS.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>4275793
You're kidding me? I open up a sales site and there's plenty of CRTs.
From consumer Trinitron TVs to NEC and LaCie professional VGA monitors. All going for Free to 10€.

>>4275793
I got a 19" CRT for free in the local ads

OP here.

Can we please keep the CRT chatter to its dedicated thread? This is for DOS talk.

Kthx

>>4275793
You want a 16:10 LCD for DOS.

>>4276108
How about a 80x24 serial terminal? Fuck graphics.

>>4276106
Sure thing!
Also let's fuck off with the Bentium 4 and Windows talk then. DOS ONLY.

>>4276125
Thank you for your cooperation citizen

>>4276125
>>4276132
>inb4 thread dies now

>>4276058
Not here. CRTs died off over 5 years ago. Even the thrift stores refuse to take them as donations now.

>>4276135
Nah, not gonna happen m8

Is pic related the best way of upgrading an Asus P2B mobo beyond ATA33 speed and 32GB maximum volume size i.e able to use modern hard drives (or even an SSD) via PATA to SATA adaptor?

>>4276049
>32 bit extension to DOS
>It's still DOS

Thank you for finally admitting Win9x is in fact DOS, in every way, shape, and form. I thought you were having a brain even there.

>>4276156
Have your so desired (You).
Unless you are being unironic and actually an idiot.

>>4276156
>Thank you for finally admitting Win9x is in fact DOS, in every way, shape, and form.
Ugh oh >>4275558
Sorry.

While it runs fine on a modern non-DOS related system.
>>4273818

The Win32 extension is unrelated to DOS. Hence why it's an extension and not just a version of DOS. You can run it separately, like on the NT kernel, not just the Win9x kernel that runs in DOS.
Sorry for not having a brain over there, it's sad that you have to go through life like that.

>>4276156
please show us howto run windows95 from DOS 6.22

>>4276183
>C:\>Win

>>4276183
Win95 is MS-DOS 7.0, dumbass.

>>4276183
go to autoexec.bat
delete the last line >>4276195

Restart your computer. Marvel at pure dos mode.

Start windows, by typing 'win'

>>4276239
more like Windows95 comes with DOS 7.0 retard
>>4276280
I want to run the "GUI" as you imply from DOS 6.22

>>4276280
Delete the line where it sets the keyboard layout? Won't do much.
You want to go to msdos.sys and change GUI to 0.

>>4276406
Why the fuck would you have a keyboard layout in your autoexec.bat?!?!

Wow, the stupidity and ignorance in this thread is astounding. It's almost hardly any of you fuckers have ever installed DOS in your lives.

Oh wait, this is 4chan, most of you fuckers weren't alive when the last version of DOS was released. So no, you haven't.

I get it now.

>>4276460
A default Windows 95 installation will leave the autoexec.bat file with the last line:
>keyb us,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\keybrd4.sys
There's no win.com in the autoexec.bat. It get's loaded automatically if:
>BootGUI=1
Is set in msdos.sys
That's how you boot Windows 9x into DOS, not by deleting a non-existance win.com from autoexec.bat like >>4276280 implied.

Pic related are the related files of a _cealn_ Windows install without any 3rd party drivers.

Your're bait is shit.

>>4276523
or you can just press F8 at boot select command prompt only.

>>4277074
How about you select Shut Down and use "Restart in MS-DOS..."?

Is a Serial or PS/2 mouse preferable for maximum compatibility under DOS 6.22 or 7.1?

>>4278782

One works as good as another. Way easier to find a PS/2 mouse than a Serial mouse anymore though.

Has anyone tried to get Sound Canvas VA working on real hardware? Seems possible but I'm a dumbass so I don't know.

>>4278885
How about USB?

Is there any way to get that working reliably? My keyboard works but my mouse doesn't.

>>4279082
just get your hands on a ps/2 mouse, dos doesn't support USB, you try to use a dos usb driver such as http://www.georgpotthast.de/usb/

Are optical mice acceptable in a DOS machine?

>>4279082
If your BIOS offers USB legacy mode it will work in most cases. The devices will be seen as PS/2 under DOS.

>>4279163
Why not? It's up to you if you want a period correct machine or not. If it works well and plays well I would go for it.

I found an isa sound card in a box at my parents' house.
Other than a big chip marked OPTi 82C931 there's not much to identify it, I think it is a clone of some other card.
It this worth using for DOS games?

>>4279741
It's a fairly standard SB clone but definitely worth using.

Shame it's not a 941. Those had built-in wavetable support.