/vr/ - Retro Games

My opinion is their control was just no good for fighting games. It was optimized for navigting 3d terrain and shooters. The positioning of the d-pad was just way too far and uncomfortable to use together with the C-buttons. It wasn't the same as the conventional controllers of the time. That being said I got so used to the Nintendo 64 joystick for navigating 3d worlds that I still am not comfortable with dual analog controllers for doing that.

This may not actually be a problem with the library but it effects whether I can appreciate the library or not.

>>4264985
Funny you say that when the best games on N64 are japanese!

SM64
Sin and Punishment
Mischief Makers
Bangai-O
F Zero X
Mario Kart 64
Mystical Ninja starring Goemon
Goemons Great Adventure
OoT and MM
Starfox 64

>>4265000
Most Japanese N64 games were pretty poor from a technical perspective. Nintendo fared a bit better because they had assistance from developers like Factor 5, and from various American programmers who worked for them. Also Silicon Graphics.

There's a very interesting library of N64 games that were exclusive to Japan and never released outside Japan. We've been getting a slow trickle of fan translations over the years.

>>4264985
Cd was the difference as made publish games so much cheaper and so much more data spce. Saturn and n64 were in the end pretty equal in japan but satun got over 1000 different titles there compared to about 200 that n64 got. Sadly japanese only games remain quite undocumented in english but that is true to almost all consoles.

>>4265052
There are 388 N64 games. You gotta remember that the N64 was designed to alienate 3rd party developers. That's why it was so poorly documented. Nintendo felt that if developers couldn't figure out the esoteric hardware, they weren't "good" enough to be releasing games for the platform.

If you made an N64 game, it had to pass some pretty extreme quality control testing. Noticable Z-fighting was an instant fail, I believe. This means that the handful of N64 games that disabled the z-buffer that, IIRC, slashed performance by 33% had to do so extremely carefully.

The cartridge problem arguably stemmed from Nintendo being utter shitheads and fucking over developers when it came to cartridge prices and ordering batches. For example, if you ordered 100,000 carts, you'd typically be given 50,000 because Nintendo were assholes. So developers tended to order 2x more than they needed. But Nintendo would randomly give you what you'd actually asked for. This is what fucked over Glover. Game sold pretty decently, but they'd massively order-ordered cartridges, and the game lost money. This led to Glover 2 being canned. Because Nintendo weren't interested in helping cut cartridge costs or helping 3rd party devs at all, really, publishers ended up squeezing games on cartridges that were much too small. Nor did Nintendo make any effort to supply 3rd party devs with codecs that would help conserve space, such as Factor 5's MORT.

>>4265064
I was talking games released in japan. In japan they did cut prices. The first six months or about the year new n64 games were about 10000 yen but after that they were 6000-7000 pretty much same level as ps and saturn

>>4264985
dunno, I loved them all at the time. Now I find them to be too visually hideous to play longer than 5-10 minutes...except wave race, fucking love that game.

>>4264985
It didn't have 700 shovelware titles like the PS1 therefore it's AWFUL.

>>4265551
still had more interesting, unique and varied games. Besides would a Nintenyearold say that the Wii and DS are good?

>>4264985
The only thing wrong with the N64 are the people who have never played it.

>>4264985
just what the board needed, more N64 whining

>>4264985
People who hate n64 didnt have friends as kids

Even 3 good games with multiplayer was chaos

>>4264985
>Sometimes I get the feeling the people who complain about the N64 library are Japanese game fans who can't be bothered learning Japanese to play the Japanese games nobody cared about enough to localize

So you are shitting on JP programmers for being shit but at the same times saying that people who don't speak Japanese really can't enjoy the N64? What kind of retarded backward ass logic is that?

>>4264985
Too many platformers and collecting games, weak graphics, poor controller. It was a weak generation all around but N64 was the most disappointing.

I like a lot of western games, but not many on there were appealing. Rarehas never made a game I really loved.

>>4265614
>Too many platformers and collecting games,
There are like 2-3 noteworthy ones.
>weak graphics
Lmao good one Sonyfriend.
>poor controller
>he has small hands

>>4265618
I also think PS1 looks super shitty, just not quite as shitty. That gen is probably my least favorite in gaming after 2. My dislike of the controller has nothing to do with it's size.

Anyways, disagree as much as you like, it's cool. Op asked so I a answered with my thoughts.

>>4265603
I think it's more that the demographic who bash the N64 for not having the kind of games they like tend to ignore the Japan-only games because they can't read Japanese.

>>4265614
>Too many platformers and collecting games
How many is "too many" on a console that has more racing games than platformers/collecting games?

>>4266503
Nobody gives a fuck about racing games, man.

>>4264985
>What is actually wrong with the N64's library?
Nothing really but the N64 was the start of Nintendo's really rocky relationship with 3rd party devs. A lot of them flocked off to PS1 because of Nintendo's mafia-like practices and were tired of the shafting

If you read too much negativity though it'll seem the worst console ever though, like most things on the internet

>>4266513
>Nobody gives a fuck about racing games, man.
Is that why Crash Bandicoot fans continue to beg for a remake of their beloved Diddy Kong Racing clone?

When I was a kid, no one ever talked about the N64 or mentioned it even once, I didn't even know it existed until many years later, but we all knew what a playstation was.

Was it because I lived in the UK or what?

>>4265614

>Rarehas never made a game I really loved
you have shitty taste, your opinion is not to be considered.

>>4266983

Probably. Europeans always had terrible taste in vidya. It was Sega's territory and then sony's.

>>4265579
DS has tons of great games, comparable to PSX, Wii less so.

>>4266983

Europoors couldn't afford it

>>4266515
nintendo had those policies because they uderstood the atari crahed because of hovelware and conumers ouldnt tell the difference between quality and shit and so jut hated everything

nintendo tried to STOP the market from turning into what it is oday and you fgs can only complain

for fucks sake

>>4267381
All those broken games being released today would never have passed N64 QA. Think about that.

>>4267385
neither would microtransactions

nintendo is japanese and are very market nd consuner protectionism

sony is crossowned by americans

if eople werent hoveling money into barbie magic adventure the money would funnel into quality games nd mre quality would gt ade

>>4267381
Thank God there was almost no shovelware on the GBA, Wii and DS.

>>4267421
The GBA, Wii, and DS didn't have N64-grade QA standards, though. Nintendo panicked and started sucking up to 3rd party developers.

>>4267423
>>4267421
You forget that it was ruled by the courts that the Nintendo systems were computers, and they had zero right to lock people out of developing for it.

>>4267434
this. nintendo was deply in debt at that point becuse sony decided to bun h market the ground

sony alienated its own maket ao badly every console of theors as lost money since ps1 because no one lokes he games and total buyers shrink every gen

JUST LIKE ATARI

>>4265064
source

>>4267441
I coaldn't undwrstand thst"

>>4267441
Every console Sony has made has been profitable, sometimes being the only division turning profits in bad years.

You're thinking of Microsoft. Xbox division hasn't made one red cent of actual profit ever.

>>4267490
incorrect

sony playstation has profitable quartwrs but net yearly is always in the red. they gain market share which attracts capitalization but lose money.

So what are some good games that didn't get an English translation?

>>4267545
nobody here has the japanese level to play those

>>4266501
First of all that's bullshit, and it barely makes any sense. What are these amazing JP only games that are only on N64 that not only non Japanese speaking people can't understand but no one is racing to translate? Why is no one talking about them? But then you accuse most of them being Sony fans, and the PSX has an amazing JP only library, and no one is bitching about that, actually quite the opposite I see more of people that can't read Japanese bitching about PSX/Saturn/old and new Japanese PC games about the fact that they aren't translated but like the aesthetic and gameplay - it's quite the opposite. actually most of the games on that were awesome were Japanese made, I mean is there really N64 games in Japanese only that have a great story or some experiment writing that is so perfect that people would shit over a whole system because a handful of games? I think you're just looking to far into left field, I understand Japanese perfectly fine and I think N64 is overrated and could really give a shit less about any of the games on it anymore yet somehow I'm still combing through PSX library, through PSP, SFC, PC games for rare RPGs and Sound Novels and I'm still finding new and unique shit. This whole thing with console wars is literally man children with the brain of a 2 year old stomping their feet that their toy is better. Wait am I just too slow to realize that the original statement was just OP projecting about not being able to read JP and the only unique JP only game besides on SN is some baseball shit? Again it's people just overcompensating for their insecurity because they have the emotional depth of a child

>>4267547
Sure I do man used to lived in Japan and I just took the N1 last year and I translate VNs and hentai as a part time job. What are some of these games? I just finished through my second play through of Baroque Syndrome and obviously the story is better than the RPG cause no shit it's a visual novel, but I like that it keeps the old school Sound Novel system where, similar to Otogirisou and Majou tachi no nemuri, where not only your decisions effect how the story folds out but also how many times you played it changes shit as well. It's kinda annoying though cause you have that whole I pick the wrong choice I'm fucking dead thing, but it's usually quick so it's not like you play for 30 minutes and have to go back, and at some points that mechanic actually pigeonholes you into making a choice so maybe you don't have as much freedom as I thought. Wouldn't know until I played it a few more times - at least there are a shitload of endings.

>>4267559
I mean I guess you could say majou tachi was even worse since you actually had to play through the death scenarios in order to progress the story and get te different endings too bad some of them were fucking retarded but what do you expect Akagawa Jiro isn't particularly know for his Shakepearen portray on intimate human dramas - he is by no means an Abe or a Soseki

>>4267474
>source
Source for what?

N64 QA standards are a mixture of statements from BOSS games and Rareware. The cartridge batch stuff is from an interview with the developers of Glover.

arrived too late, too few games to really matter. I think the N64 library is enough to last you for a year and after that you'll be back on your Saturn or Playstation discovering new games.

>>4267550
>What are these amazing JP only games that are only on N64 that not only non Japanese speaking people can't understand but no one is racing to translate?
There has been a very slow trickle of fan translations over the years.

>Why is no one talking about them?
Nobody knows they exist. Like, how many people know that Animal Crossing was originally a Japan-only N64 game? That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Custom Robo and Custom Robo V2 are two pretty damn good RPGs. They second game moreso.

Then there's Hamster Monogatari 64 and Wonder Project J2. One is a fucking hamster raising simulator, and the other is a robot girl raising simulator.

There's Last Legion UX, a really good mech game.

Nushi Duri 64 is a pretty neat fishing RPG that had an ugly as fuck sequel.

Then there's Onegai Monsters, which is a monster raising RPG.

Then there's Robot Ponkottsu, which is of course another RPG. Because when people think "N64', they think "RPGs".

Then there's Yakouchuu 2, which is an N64... sound novel.

Then there's Zool - Majuu Tsukai Densetsu. which is of course... another RPG. But it's a sort of VN/RPG/monster battle thing.

Then of course there's Shiren the Wanderer 2, which is... yea, another RPG. Got great reviews in Japan.

There's some others too. Some odd fighting games, some well regarded Japan-only wrestling games, stuff like that.

>>4267640
I think it really depends on what sort of games you like. One problem is that the N64 as a platform tended to have games that were really ahead of their time, which made playing PS1 and Saturn titles a... divisive experience.

>>4267662
Which games were those?

>>4267661
Shiren isn't an rpg,

>>4267671
How is it not an RPG?

>>4267669
Imagine playing Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine. Imagine taking for granted that your character shouldn't control like a refrigerator. Now imagine playing Tomb Raider games on PS1.

>>4267669
N64 games tended to be genre hybrids. PS1 games tended to be more traditional. Like, how many honest to god N64 platformers can you name? Almost no N64 "platformers" are actually platformers.

>>4266983
I grew up in UK and I had an n64, so did 3 or 4 of my Friends at school. The N64 had plenty of exposure here, not as popular as the playstation but not exactly obscure - they were on the shelves in every electronics/gaming shop.

>>4267661
There was also a 2001 2D Bomberman 64 game that almost nobody knows exists because it has the same name as the 1997 3D Bomberman 64.

>>4267673
Roguelikes are related to but a separate genre from rpgs

>>4267675
Tomb Raider is Prince of Persia in 3D, it's control scheme is a conscious choice.

>>4267683
That still doesn't answer the question. There weren't many straight platformers on PS1 either. Just name a few games.

>>4267704
>Tomb Raider is Prince of Persia in 3D, it's control scheme is a conscious choice.
AFAIK Toby Gard was unhappy with the game's controls, and after he quit in a morally indignant fury over Lara's treatment by Eidos, he made that pirate platformer with free running mechanics. Can't remember its name. Tomb Raider was a freaking Saturn game. If it had been an N64 game, it would have had 3D movement, just like Indiana Jones did.
>That still doesn't answer the question. There weren't many straight platformers on PS1 either. Just name a few games.
I don't think you appreciate the depths of the problem. The N64 was a console with platformers that weren't about jumping, FPS games that weren't about shooting, and "collectathons" that weren't actually about collecting things. I mean, what the hell is Conker, genre-wise? Some call it a collectathon but there's like 10 things to collect in the entire game.

Very few N64 games had tank controls. Developers went out of their way to avoid tank controls, to the point RE2 N64 introduced 3D controls over a decade before they'd be reintroduced to the series.

The PS1 had games directly influenced by GoldenEye, but it didn't have any games that actually played like GoldenEye. The N64 had stuff like The World is Not Enough, which is designed completely differently to the PS1 TWINE. The PS1 version feels more archaic, while the N64 version is a direct precursor to 2002's Nightfire.

>>4267710
Whether he liked it or not, the TR games are designed around their control scheme. But that's also part of the reason almost nothing else was made to control like it.

I'm just trying to figure out what you meant when you said N64 games were ahead of their time and which games. You surely can't really mean Goldeneye... Conker? Or do you mean games not having tank controls?

>>4267714
>Whether he liked it or not, the TR games are designed around their control scheme.
So was Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine for PC. Yet the N64 version replaced the tank controls with proper 3D movement, and the game only benefited. I mean, IJ:IF on PC was like TR but somehow even worse.

>I'm just trying to figure out what you meant when you said N64 games were ahead of their time and which games. You surely can't really mean Goldeneye... Conker? Or do you mean games not having tank controls?
Look at some of the most popular PS1 games: Crash Bandicoot was a 3D platformer that played like a 2D game. Final Fantasy VII was a JPRG that fundamentally played no different to a SNES game. You look at the most popular N64 games and they don't play like ANYTHING that existed before them. Developers were inventing bold new subgenres. Throwing away stuff like turn-based combat. Throwing away precision platforming. The approach to game design the N64 pioneered has a lot of parallels to Ubisoft's modern work. Assassin's Creed is an N64-style objective-based collectathon in an open world. The Grand Theft Auto series is heavily derived from the N64 game Body Harvest, which was a super experimental open world TPS game where you could steal any car you wanted, that, again, played like nothing people had ever seen before.

That's not to say the PS1 didn't have its share of neat and bold and innovative games -- just that a bulk of the high profile PS1 games are really, really archaic from a design perspective. N64 developers were busy inventing new genres and absolutely crazy physics-driven platformers like Rocket: Robot on Wheels while PS1 developers were making 3D versions of existing ones or even making 2D games that played like shinier versions of SNES games. The N64 is one of those TECHNOLOGY consoles where developers jammed bleeding edge technology into their games just because they could, framerate be damned.

>>4267490
>You're thinking of Microsoft. Xbox division hasn't made one red cent of actual profit ever.

Why does the Xbox even exist?

>>4267723
I wasn't asking about how it compared to the PS1, which I certainly wouldn't call ahead of it's time. I'm not saying TR was ahead of it's time either. GTA predates Body Harvest, but I do see what you mean about collectathons leading into AssCreed type games.

>>4267731
Purely to fuck with Sony.

>>4267959
>Purely to fuck with Sony.
More to fuck with the Japanese in general. DirectX = Manhattan Project. DirectXBox = Project Midway.