/vr/ - Retro Games

>Ocarina Of Time was the first REAL Zelda game
>those old 2D ones are haaaard!
Literally only 3D Zelda fans hate this game, because they don't really like Zelda. They like what Zelda became.

>>4242024
If they like what Zelda became, they like Zelda, because Zelda is what it became.

>>4242018
>I believe the fact that you can't kill Ganon without silver arrows is even hinted at in the final dungeon.

Aside from the fact that silver arrows are found within the very same dungeon? It's not like there's anything else you would need to kill with them. All the other dungeons have been cleared by then.

>Why the fuck do so many people call this a "guide game"?

They have too many mental deficiencies.

>>4242030
Also this.

>>4242024
I like ALttP and several 3D Zeldas and don't like Zelda NES
I also dislike BotW

People like myself do exist
>>4242026
This. It's the logical answer.

Can we end this "I did it without a guide" meme? The Legend Of Zelda is one of my favorite games of all time, and I've finished it several times, including challenge runs like 3 hearts, no deaths, no sword, etc., but I've never done it without a map and some basic hints like pic related. Even the game tells you to read the manual in the opening crawl. Without somebody telling you, assuming you've never played a Zelda game before, how would you know even the most basic shit, like the fact that walls can be bombed?

>>4242052
Finally, someone with a lick of sense to them.
People like >>4242018 and >>4242030 just like to sound cool
>muh soooo easy
>muh did it with one eye closed
Many old titles factored in a player that read the guide

>>4242052
i finished zelda 1 when i was like 7, without having access to the manual. its not rocket science figuring out how the game works and how you get past obstacles. took a few months, and we were 3 kids working together. most of the hints made sense and was just the right amount of help needed.

then again i have over 140 iq. maybe its harder if you are just a regular person

>>4242052
It is no excuse to play these retro games without spending 30 seconds to download the manual in PDF. I beat the game as an 8 year old kid without anything else but the instruction booklet, and figuring it out by trying everything with your friends over pizza and soda is one of the most comfy experiences in my life. It's not Tower of Druaga, there's clues all over the game. And everything can be figured out with a little experimentation.

>>4242052
>>4242059

Using the manual that originally came with the game is not the same thing AT ALL as going online to look up a guide.

In fact, I would say that reading the manual is an intended part of how you're supposed to go through the game for the first time. That's why so many people claim it's too hard, because they assume the manual is useless and they skip reading it.

>>4242052
>Can we end this "I did it without a guide" meme?

Except I really did complete the game without any access to a guide, and I was around 13 at the time. My family wasn't hooked up to the Internet back then.

The only thing that gave me trouble was the entrance to one of the dungeons in the second quest. You had to use the stepladder to position yourself over a river and against the mountain, then bomb it. It didn't occur to me at first that I should try to bomb locations like that. I wasted hours trying to burn trees all over the map.

There's nothing particularly cryptic in the first quest.

1. Weird fairy lake, with no fairy... "let's try every item we have... oh it's the recorder".
2. Part in the labyrinth on the map that's inaccessible... "maybe I can break the wall somehow... oh it's the bomb ".
3. This guy with one giant eye seems invincible... "what if I shoot something at it... oh it's the arrows ".
4. What is this weird tree doing here that doesn't fit the rest of the layout? "Maybe I can burn it... yes."

Everything else is hinted at in the instruction booklet (the prologue even tells you to read the fucking booklet) and in game text.

>>4242018
> the fact that almost every screen has a bush to burn or a wall to bomb.
62/128 have nothing to burn or bomb or any secret.

That's almost half. Try again.

>>4242065
>then again i have over 140 iq. maybe its harder if you are just a regular person
*tips*

I wouldn't say you had to complete it with a guide but part of the appeal of the game was the secrets you could talk to your friends about. Maybe they found the heart container in their run you never did and that kind of shit. Sometimes knowing exactly what to do when takes away from the experience.

>>4242052
What does this say anon?

Read it aloud to the class.

>>4242113
If you look again, almost of the dark spaces have a cave, staircase, or dungeon to go into.

The game follows a rule of every square having no more than 1 entrance to an indoor/underground area, whether it be hidden or in plain sight. So if you see something to enter in plain sight, then you know not to look for any hidden things in that same square.

>>4242154
dark = have secret
light = no secret

>>4242085
This

>>4242113

It's more like almost every screen that looks like it COULD have bombable/burnable spots, often do. If you remove all of the light squares that don't have any possibility of a bombable wall or burnable bush, (after knowing that only flat, northern walls can be bombable, and only green bushes can be burned), then the number of squares without secrets in them goes way down.

>>4242180
>only green bushes can be burnt
what are you talking about nigga

>>4242180
spectacle rock is not a flat northern wall...

>>4242205
how is it not

>>4242154
Thats something we know now, not something a first time player would know. Even if they recognize the pattern, it'd be easy to suspect the developers of breaking that pattern. I never thought I'd be supposed to bomb through an old man room because they were all passive safe places in dungeons before that, like break rooms, but I'm pretty sure that's necessary to beat a dungeon. Patterns are established and then broken in games all the time.

Zelda 1 is a fantastic game. The exploration adds a lot to it, there's tons of freedom and the combat is really fun. The crypticness of the game is undoubtedly part of its appeal, and added that social aspect a lot of people always mention when this comes up. But there's not much of a social scene for the first game today, outside the internet. A person playing it now isn't gonna get playground gossip about the game. All they can do is go online for hints from people who know the game extremely well. Which is different from sharing secrets mutually, it's all a one sided assistance because the internet already knows everything about this game. Not too different from using a guide.

You CAN find everything on your own. Trying to do so will be great for the first few hours. But when theres only one or two dungeons left, theres a good chance youll be wandering around aimlessly for a pretty long time before you find something. Some people have fond memories of burning every bush, but is it really that hard to understand that some people may not enjoy such a simple, repetitive activity?

Exploration is fun but after a long enough time of not finding progress it becomes boring and aggravating. If after a few hours of exploring the overworld a person hasn't found anything, I wouldn't fault them at all for using a guide to just skip to the fun part.

Anyone who hugs a guide the whole way through this game is a faggot. But it's understandable that the cryptic aspect of the game could be more frustration than its worth today.

Shiggy didn't expect people to beat Zelda 1 with no outside help; he wanted friends to share secrets and help each other beat the game. Odds are you don't have any friends playing this game nowadays, so there's nothing wrong with using a guide. It's otherwise a well made game, so using a guide for some parts doesn't take away the player's enjoyment; I'd actually say it's better for the player to have another option for getting past the rather cryptic parts instead of spending hours bombing everything. If you're getting frustrated, it's stupid to keep playing, make no progress, and get more frustrated.

That said, guides should be used as little as possible, since exploration is also an important part of the game. I think you try to find a balance instead of listening to shitty /vr/ opinions, but that's just my shitty /vr/ opinion

>>4242037
IMO you sound like someone that likes the more structured, story/character-focused zelda, and not so much a fan of the more loose, action-oriented games which don't pay as much mind to story or characters.

>>4242065
I don't have a 140 IQ and I beat the game when I was 4 so what does that say about people like you?

>>4242282
i hated how linear zelda games became after LTTP. the fact that you could mix up the order of the dark world dungeons quite a lot gave LTTP a lot of replay value. this is why i am against story triggers and favour item based gating instead, as games filled with story triggers often become close to completely linear. this is the only thing i really dislike about LA for example.

>>4242302
it really doesnt say anything at all, except that you beat the game at the age of 4

>>4242024

It should be Link talking to a guard and the guard giving some shit excuse that the road is under construction

>>4242224
I wish that I could think of how to make a game today that harbored that same element of mystery and working together to solve the riddles without it also being quickly solved and then shut down by a deluge of faqs only a week after release.

>>4242018
About the most you'd really need is a map for the burnable/bombable spots to reduce tedium. Some argue that would ruin exploration but that's not even good exploration it's tedious as fuck. This is where the "guide" thing comes in. Because few people enjoy that aspect of using all your bombs on a wall, collecting more, and repeating on a grid like search through ~128 overworld screens + dungeons. It's not interesting or challenging or rewarding, it's just boring. Though many have nostalgia goggles for when they were kids and doing something that repetitive because they had nothing better to do than mess with a novelty while chugging chocolate milk and pizza with friends in between discovering the magic of genitals telling each other stories only naive dipshits like they are would believe. They want to recapture that. It wasn't the game, it was the pizza, dongs, and stupidity that made it magical for you. Anyone who's actually good at games and has any number of shit at this point and it's not a novelty title anymore is going to be treated to an exercise in "get on with it".

That being said there are some things that would be useful to know on second quest like getting your heart containers lost permanently, how bubbles work, going through dungeons walls after humping them longer than expected etc...

>>4242498
>map for bombable spots and burnable bushes
why would you need that? there is literally only one bush and one wall you need to complete the game. the bush is dead obvious and for the wall you are given a hint. the rest is just extra rewards for those who want to explore

>>4242498
The second quest is just supposed to be a big "Kaizo" style fuck you, it doesn't really count.

You only need to bomb/burn two spots in the game and it's obvious as fuck. The rest are just fun little easter eggs, extra heart containers or cash... and you can usually conjecture it with just looking at the dungeon map. I beat the game with no online or paper guides or even friends'
help when we were snowed in one winter.

The game gives all types of clues, it's just that it doesn't play like post-OoT Zelda... not even post LttP in all honesty. They still took a lot of the mystery out and laid everything out.

How do you figure out the forest "labyrinth" that sends you back to the beginning if you go the wrong way without a guide?

>>4242703
There's an NPC who tells you the sequence.

>>4242718
Great! I'm gonna get this game now because it was the only part I was worried I wouldn't be able to "get". I've read this sequence before but never memorized it, and in fact I didn't even open the screenshot just to make sure I find it myself and not take shortcuts.

>>4242742
There are hints for everything you need to do to beat the game (almost, the rest can be figured out by extrapolation), and the fact that the game is VERY sparse on text compared to modern games makes the hints hard to miss if you just explore properly. The game isnt all that cryptic as people make it out to be

>>4242024
>Ocarina Of Time was the first REAL Zelda game
Literally nobody has ever said this you fucking retard. People like Ocarina of Time because it actually had a story, good items, good characters, good combat and a more immersive world. Nobody has ever said it was "the first real Zelda".

Also, Zelda 1 is fucking shit, sorry. And no, I'm not a 19 year old spermling that never played the game, I grew up with it. It was good for the time, but compared to the later entries, especially ALttP and the Oracle games, it is hot trash and not one bit of that has anything to do with difficulty aside from the notion that instead of being given logical clues as to where you should go, you are expected to autistically wander around burning and bombing various obstacles in hopes of randomly discovering where to go next -- that is shit game design at its finest and you should feel bad for defending it.
>because they don't really like Zelda. They like what Zelda became.
Lmao this is the gayest thing I've read all day, impressive. It never fails, every hardcore Zelda 1 fan claims that Zelda 1 is the only "real" Zelda and that the other dozens of games are just "what Zelda became". News flash retard, the series is known for what it "became", not fucking Zelda 1. Stop living in the past and accept that the series evolved.

>>4242742
That part is 100% optional anyway, since the maze is only one of the two possible entrances to that area.

>>4242895
This isn't /v/, that is some really shitty bait.

>one day people won't believe you when you say you beat Zelda 64 without a guide

>>4243247
>This isn't /v/, that is some really shitty bait.
So in other words, you don't have an argument and you're butthurt about being wrong. Gotcha.

>>4242018
The game gives you more than enough to finish it. But it's not always apparent what cryptic message means what. Guides help. I love the Zelda series, but I'm always looking at guides online even now because there's things I know I missed and I want to experience that stuff for myself.

>>4242065
The autismo

>>4243261
That whole point onward was fucking terrible. The whole game was bad, but that part was particularly terrible.

>>4242895
Imagine being a 35 year old man that goes on the internet to argue with other manchildren about what toy they had when a kid was best

>>4242603
>The second quest is just supposed to be a big "Kaizo" style fuck you, it doesn't really count.
Arguably, it's the real meat of the game despite many not touching it.

>You only need to bomb/burn two spots in the game and it's obvious as fuck.
And hindsight is definitely an awesome thing to have and completely irrelevant to the point. Also not true for the second quest.

> I beat the game with no online or paper guides or even friends' help when we were snowed in one winter.
I never suggested it couldn't be done in any remote capacity. I merely noted that it's tedious and tedium is not fun.

>The game gives all types of clues
Not really.

>>4244791
>>the game gives all types of clues
>not really
the majority of textboxes in that game are clues. saying the game doesnt give you clues just proves you are a retard

>>4242018
Its a little bit cryptic, but if little kid me could figure it out, anyone fucking can. Ganon's castle can go fuck itself though, I don't give a shit if someone cheats with a map.

>>4242052
What is the manual was mistranslated or it gets something wrong?

this usually happened on Konami manual's

>>4244895
Castlevania 2 translating "ホン" as "clues" instead of "books" is one of the biggest problems with that game, and no doubt tripped up a lot of non-Japanese kids.

>>4242895
Aight, read up fucko. Being constantly pointed in a direction isn't an adventure. Zelda 1 actually gives you an adventure in an uncharted hostile world. Without direction, finding something becomes exciting. You say the game should give clues as to where to go next, but that's missing the point of the game. The core of what makes the game enjoyable is the exploration. It's not meant to be played in a manner of going from point A to point B. If you don't have to attention span for that, you should go play some shitty modern fps.

>>4244791
I had a ton of fun and I'm hardly much smarter than the average Joe, even as a kid. It can only be difficult if you're really retarded or an African-American.

>>4242310
LTTP was super linear, what are you talking about.

>>4244886
>the majority of textboxes in that game are clues
Saying
>doesnt give you clues just proves you are a retard
proves you can't read.

All TYPES OF CLUES. Let's check what types they give shall we and also let's check you're retard-o-meter with majority of textboxes.

IT'S DANGEROUS TO GO ALONE! TAKE THIS
* MASTER USING IT AND YOU CAN HAVE THIS
TAKE ANY ROAD YOU WANT
* SECRET IS IN THE TREE AT THE DEAD-END
LET'S PLAY MONEY MAKING GAME
PAY ME FOR THE DOOR REPAIR CHARGE
SHOW THIS TO THE OLD WOMAN
* MEET THE OLD MAN AT THE GRAVE
BUY MEDICINE BEFORE YOU GO
PAY ME AND I'LL TALK
THIS AIN'T ENOUGH TO TALK
* GO UP,UP, THE MOUNTAIN AHEAD
* GO NORTH,WEST,SOUTH, WEST TO THE FOREST OF MAZE
BOY, YOU'RE RICH
BUY SOMETHIN' WILL YA
BOY, THIS IS REALLY EXPENSIVE!
TAKE ANY ONE YOU WANT
IT'S A SECRET TO EVERYBODY
GRUMBLE,GRUMBLE..
* EASTMOST PENNINSULA IS THE SECRET
* DODONGO DISLIKES SMOKE
* DID YOU GET THE SWORD FROM THE OLD MAN ?
* TOP OF THE WATERFALL
* WALK INTO THE WATERFALL
* SECRET POWER IS SAID TO BE IN THE ARROW
* DIGDOGGER HATES CERTAIN KIND OF SOUND
I BET YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE MORE BOMBS
* IF YOU GO IN THE DIRECTION OF THE ARROW
LEAVE YOUR LIFE OR MONEY
* THERE ARE SECRETS WHERE FAIRIES DON'T LIVE
AIM AT THE EYES OF GOHMA
* SOUTH OF ARROW MARK HIDES A SECRET
* THERE'S A SECRET IN THE TIP OF THE NOSE
* SPECTACLE ROCK IS AN ENTRANCE TO DEATH
10TH ENEMY HAS THE BOMB
ONES WHO DOES NOT HAVE TRIFORCE CAN'T GO IN
PATRA HAS THE MAP
GO TO THE NEXT ROOM
* EYES OF SKULL HAS A SECRET

There ya go. 40 textboxes, 18 clues, not even half let alone the majority. And what type are most of those clues even, vague shit that's barely comprehensible.
Master using it? The sword? Okay, I'm pretty dope at using it now what? Oh hearts completely unrelated to the mastery of using the sword, good clue.

Eastmost peninsula is the, oh right, no one to this very day knows what the fuck this clue was supposed to be.

>>4245613
Noting most of these aren't even clues to specific things like hidden walls you can walk through or relate to other burnable/bombable things. A handful of generic location solutions, some poor enemy tips (dodongo dislikes explosions in his stomach, not smoke, he doesn't give a fuck about smoke.)

Not that you particularly need clues in most of the game anyway. Dungeons don't really need clues. A few of them help but there aren't all sorts of clues.

Telling you how to get through the forest is sort of a vital clue. The mountain one is also vital butworse.
The fairies one is iffy. It's a poorly worded clue because literally it's suggesting that basically every screen has secrets the way it reads.

Did you get the sword from the old man is barely a clue since it just suggests there's another sword and that's already covered in the manual as another sword existing.

>>4242065
>its not rocket science figuring out how the game works
>took a few months
>3 kids working together
>over 140 iq
so 3 kids with >140 iq took over 3 months to beat this game? jesus

>>4245628
>dodongo dislikes explosions in his stomach, not smoke, he doesn't give a fuck about smoke

Confirmed for casual. If Dodongo walks into a bomb's smoke, it becomes stunned and then you can finish it off with a single sword stab.

>>4242310
While I do like a few of the games LTTP onwards, I do agree. I'm glad BOTW brought back the non-linear aspect back into the franchise.

>>4242018
Some people play games to relax, and don't like to think, and it doesn't cross their minds that this isn't universal.

>>4243261
I can't image how many playtesters must have just walked trough the room, and then gotten confused.
So instead of changing the puzzle into something more puzzle like, they went full retard to force it to work.

>>4242718
What if you don't know your directions? I always mix up East and West.

>>4242018
>Why the fuck do so many people call this a "guide game"?
Because it is.

Can you honestly expect people to pick this game up and know how to get to the next level, without reading any type of guide whatsoever?

No, you can't.

The game is an over-rated piece of shit. It was just an avenue for the shills at (((Nintendo))) to make some more fucking money by selling you required extra reading.

>inb4 derp I beat it at 5 years old without reading the manual

Fuck off, no you didn't. That's a lie, and you know it. You fucking had help.

>>4249096
Actually, it's that some of us are not brain damaged.

>bomb every single tile in the game if you want to proceed! :^)
No thanks, I'd rather play something fun. Maybe if bombs weren't limited I wouldn't mind, but like this? haha no way in hell.

>>4249096
There's literally nothing too mysterious in the game, stop being a faggot, pretending it was harder than it was.

>>4249142
Except that isn't true, you have to bomb based on clues given by the map.

>>4249078
Woolie please

>>4242052
t. brainlet

>>4242065
my iq is 151, so I sympathize with you. It's a tough for us smarties

>>4242018
>if you consider the fact that almost every screen has a bush to burn or a wall to bomb. It's just a matter of figuring out which one.
>What do you mean you don't want to go around trying to burn every single bush and blow up every rock? Fucking casuals..
Ya, no, fuck you. I like the game, but some things in it were made to sell Nintendo Power.

>>4245613
Why do people argue about the "eastmost peninsula" one? I always assumed that it meant the triforce piece was in the eastmost room of the dungeon. It could also be the invisible staircase on the east side of the map, but that's not exactly essential.

>>4245215
Sorry but you're defending at the time what was really lazy game design for Nintendo. There were cames on the spectrum and PC that did the whole adventure angle you're claiming ten times better, simply cause it wasn't restricted to a controller and weaker hardware.

>>4251220
>"people" with IQs below 160 grouping themselves with "smarties"
Cute.

>>4245387
have you even played the game? after palace of darkness you have the option of doing either swamp, skull woods or thieves town. after thieves town mire opens up. the only dark world dungeons gated behind more items found in dungeons are ice palace (mitts, hookshot, hammer, fire rod/bombos) and turtle rock (mitts, hammer, somaria, fire rod). i would argue that dark world is a highly non-linear part of the game

>>4245613
>show this to the old woman
>aim at the eyes of gohma
>ones who does not have triforce cant go in
>go to the next room
>patra has the map
these are obviously clues, which puts us at 23/40, which is the majority.

>>4251325
I have 188, you are all basically drooling dogs to me.

>>4252436
>not having quadruple digit IQ due to being the result of interbreeding with interdimensional aliens
i cannot even fathom how mundane life in the lower triple digits is.
why do you, redundant life forms, even carry on with your meaningless lives?

>>4251975
This

>>4245680
AND get guaranteed bombs for killing him this way. >>4245680 is a fucking faggot

>>4242018
Probably because such a large percentage of the people you know use stupid baby terms like "guide game". Literally no one call any game a "guide game"

How are you supposed to figure out that the candle can burn bushes? Obviously real-life bushes are flammable, but most bushes in the game don't react to the candle at all. The areas where the candle is most-apparently useful don't have bushes in them, so the odds of burning a bush accidentally seem pretty small. I don't remember how I even knew to burn bushes, does it say somewhere in the manual? Maybe an in-game hint?
The rest of the shit in this game, at least in the first quest, is not hard to figure out. But I've never seen anyone complain about figuring out that bushes are burnable. Am I just going full retard here? Do the developers intend players to use the candle as a primary weapon, or try burning bushes even when it doesn't work the first ten times?

>>4254103
Just checked, and no, the manual only says the candle can light dark rooms.

>>4254103
I haven't played recently but isn't there a screen with a path that clearly leads off screen and is blocked by a single bush in the middle

trying every item on that bush seems obvious, after that the concept of maybe trying every item on everything when you get stuck should at least exist as a possibility to the player

>>4242376
Why do you think Miyazaki added the pendant?

>>4251315
>hat did the whole adventure angle you're claiming ten times better

You're really going to have to name them, because I have heard over and over about how a certain game is "similar to Zelda but better" but that never turns out to be the case at all.

>>4242018
A ton of early RPGs and open world action games like LoZ were vague mostly to promote exploration of that world and bring about a sense of discovery. At the time, when you were a kid, you were lucky to even have parents that would provide games like Zelda, and you'd end up being stuck with a handful of games for months on end. Part of the fun was finding out where to go next. I can't be the only one who felt this when he was a kid.