/vr/ - Retro Games

Kind of impossible unless we pretend that all other games that built off of said retro game's ingenuity also didn't exist. Like Donkey Kong. Doesn't hold up against a lot of modern platformers, but if it didn't exist, they wouldn't either.

>>4214049
This. OP's question is retarded.

>>4214034
>would be regarded as groundbreaking
>>4214049
>Kind of impossible unless we pretend that all other games that built off of said retro game's ingenuity also didn't exist

actually it doesn't matter, new generations are ignorant and call everything groundbreaking when they are not. Examples:
-Mass Effect (baby's first WRPG)
-Oblivion, Fallout 3 (see above)
-Dead Rising (most people think of it as the most original game ever but it's just a 3d zombie rehash of river city ransom)
-Bioshock (dumbed down System Shock)
-Undertale (Mother series)
-Demon's/Dark souls (take previous From Software games in that style and add an online component, revolutionary)
-Persona series after 3
-Most indieshit fits this too

and more... it doesn't matter how many similar games there are, what matters is to be the first popular game to reach normie consciousness. So yeah, there are lots of retro games that could be released now and blow everyone's mind even though it's not original. Even journos nowadays are ignorant as fuck and are the first to perpetuate myths about originalitys

>>4214362
Comparing KF to DeS is like comparing WC1 to Starcraft.

>>4214362
Comparing KF to DeS is like comparing WC1 to Starcraft. It did a lot things more than the online component. CT and WT, most importantly.

>Breaking ground that's already done been broke for decades

>>4214362
Look out thw whhambulance has arrived! Gear up for crying and bitching!

Die by the Sword if it was released in a more expanded form on the Wii.

>>4214362
this.

>>4214049
>but if it didn't exist, they wouldn't either.
That's not really true. There were already popular platformers before that. Donkey Kong could be said to have polished the genre at that time, but it was not innovative by any stretch.

>>4214034
Shenmue

>>4214451
Technically but what he's saying is fundamentally true.

>>4214478
Not about Donkey Kong.

>>4214487
Yes he picked a bad example.

>>4214034
Tribes 2 with some small tweaks:

maps designed for very large teams. The engine supports 256 players on a server but none of the maps were actually designed for it so it was a chaotic mess because there wasn't enough objectives or spawn locations

Ability to choose your spawn, and forcing players into team squads so people would know the feature existed.

Play the graphics off as minimalist to enhance competitive play. One of the things I hate the most about modern shooters is all the glitter and brush everywhere making it hard to see shit.

>>4214503
Oh, and highlight the multiple team maps like capture and hold, and retrieve.
>you will never play a 4 way free for all, with 64 players on a team, and a commander and sergeant organizing you.

>>4214503
>Tribes
Everything you said was done by Unreal, Quake, or Battlefield before Tribes or it was done better. The game itself is trash and only favored by Russians and /v/.

>>4214503
Tribes 1 and 2 are incredible but again it only works if you remove them from history.

>>4214532
You're retarded. Maybe only ruskies play Tribes now but it was super popular in it's heyday. Nothing did what those games were going for better. Before or after.

>>4214429
He's not wrong. Call it crying all you want, I didn't see you actually disputing any of his points.

>>4214538
Name 1 thing Tribes or a Tribes modder gave the FPS community. Because you can write all day about the things Quake, Unreal, and BF gave the FPS community. To the point that children (most likely like you) don't realize the thing they like in their game actually came from those three (or CSS).

Tribes has contributed nothing of value because while it's an alright game on its own, it's so overshadowed by Quake and Unreal that it's a lazy effort.

>>4214532
>Unreal, Quake, or Battlefield before Tribes

Unreal and Battlfield came after Tribes you ignorant trolling little bitch.

>>4214559
Nice job chopping my sentence off to make your point, kiddo. Great.

>>4214547
I don't know anything about that. Fps isn't a genre that interests me much and I haven't seen another like Tribes since. I'm just saying it certainly wasn't ever only loved by russians and it's hardly a trash series.

>>4214562
Ohh the done better part? Yeah nice trolling.

Chrono Trigger

>>4214567
Compared to games like Unreal and Quake it fell far short.

Quake and Unreal offer better gameplay. They are true arena shooters unlike what Tribes goes for with just arena style movement and large areas. Game mechanics skill matters little in tribes. Often you can just jump around like an idiot and play it like CoD with low grav on.

Quake was the first 3d fps to have Doomstyle modding that wasn't shit. Unreal has had many relevant mods first and done right. Instagib being the big one. Then you get into the non retro big hitters of BF series and CSS which you can safely say have had nearly every mod done well, better, or first. Big ones include Zombie mod, Project Reality, Surf, etc.
>>4214568
And you can't name anything?

>>4214034
NiGHTS

>>4214585
Tribes is just a completely different kind of game. I don't see that as a bad thing. Straight FPS games have always bored me after the initial thrill of Wolf and Doom.

Tribes is like a mesh of FPS with strategy and real teamwork. It might not have the kind of precise mechanics you liked about Quake but that doesn't necessarily make it bad, it makes it a different kind of game.

Mostly I was responding to how only russians play it. Like I say, maybe that's the case. I haven't played either of them in many years myself. But I do remember when they were very popular and getting into 32 or 64 player matches was common and incredible.

I also think it's pretty silly to call it trash, but if your perspective is that Quake is exactly what you want out of an FPS I could see it not appealing.

Anyways, I'm not the one who suggested it. I think this whole thing is kind of dumb.

>>4214589
No, the whole appeal of NiGHTS was being one of the first console games centered around fully 3D flight. Such a concept is so ho-hum now.

>>4214604
>Tribes is like a mesh of FPS with strategy and real teamwork. It might not have the kind of precise mechanics you liked about Quake but that doesn't necessarily make it bad, it makes it a different kind of game.
It makes it play like CoD with low grav. As I said.
>I also think it's pretty silly to call it trash, but if your perspective is that Quake is exactly what you want out of an FPS I could see it not appealing.
It's what I want out of an arena fps. All FPS games can be broken down to a few genres. Doom clones, Arena FPS, Strategy, sim/sim like, single player, and modern trash.

>>4214609
you really lack imagination anon

>>4214619
>It makes it play like CoD with low grav. As I said.

I wouldn't know, I I've never played it. I loved Tribes 1 and 2 to death though.

>It's what I want out of an arena fps.
So we like and want different things. That's fine too. Calling everything that doesn't exactly align with your tastes trash is pretty lame and pointless though.

>>4214547
Uh, it invented team squads, the commander role, the capture loland hold game type. Pretty sure it invented team rabbit and rabbit game types. Molders gave it a very good team and ffa arena and duel game type

>no skill, just hop around
Lol, solo u noob I'll go twenty to 0

>>4214632
How do you give an educated opinion if you never played CoD? I mean I get not playing the later ones but at least play CoD2. Even if you don't like it it's one of the big FPS to play.
>So we like and want different things. That's fine too. Calling everything that doesn't exactly align with your tastes trash is pretty lame and pointless though.
Not what I like or don't. I just judge it as an arena fps since that is clearly what it is.

>>4214649
>it invented team squads
Rainbow Six
Rest is wrong or some rabbit garbage.

>>4214651
I don't play games so I can give opinions. I play games I like and then give the opinions I formed from that. CoD never interested me much, especially the setting. I can't even remember a time I didn't have a backlog of games I wanted to get to, I'm certainly not going to spend time playing ones I don't like or care about.

FPS as a genre doesn't interest me a ton. The team play, huge maps and player bases made Tribes an exceptional game that caught and held my interest. That's all.

If you didn't like what Tribes 1 and 2 did, that's fine. But judging it as an "arena fps" because that's the broad category it falls under and then saying you don't like it because it's not close enough to other games in that category is very silly to me.

You can hate it all you want, but from the bits of Quake and Unreal I played back in the day I would never ever choose them over Tribes.

>>4214662
Not him but Raibbow Six only came out a few months before Tribes1. Arguing about this is stupid any way you slice it though.

>>4214676
I'm passionate about the history of games and I've always played many games and games I knew I wouldn't like so I can understand the genre.

Most of what I say is based on objective comparisons rather than what I like. What I like and what I say is a good game can be different. For example I prefer Unreal over Quake any day but I don't talk bad about Quake. Quake speaks for itself about the quality of game it is. As I said I think Tribes is an alright game on it's own. But when looked at objectively compared to it's genre it falls short.

>>4214693
>I'm passionate about the history of games and I've always played many games and games I knew I wouldn't like so I can understand the genre.

That's cool. I'm just passionate about playing games I like.

>As I said I think Tribes is an alright game on it's own. But when looked at objectively compared to it's genre it falls short.

Again a nice sentiment, but I think in judging everything that way you lost something. I was very into Tribes 1 and 2 in their day (bought a new rig for it and T2 and launch day) and I know with certainty that I wasn't the only person around back then who liked Tribes head and shoulders above other FPS style games.

>>4214706
Not a lot of people give multiple games a chance either. You just found a game you liked and played it. Not really what the thread was about.

Solomon's Key for the iphone

>>4214717
In genres I like, like fighters, roguelikes, strategy, puzzlers etc I will play many many games. But FPS as a base genre I find pretty dull (again Doom and Wolf were fun, but they felt revolutionary then) . I loved what Tribes 1 and 2 did, I played the heck out of them for ages but that didn't make me love other FPS games even more. If anything it was less.

> Not really what the thread was about.

And no, but the thread is fundamentally stupid.

>>4214737
True but with all the /v/ talk and Tribes I felt like posting.

>>4214451
>not innovative by any stretch
>having this much of a hateboner for Nintendo
>>4214487
>>4214498
Wasn't Donkey Kong the first game that allowed players to jump? I'd say that's pretty innovative.

>>4214751
>Wasn't Donkey Kong the first game that allowed players to jump? I
No. Criticism and correction aren't hate.

>>4214748
Well thanks for your rigid opinions you think supersede everyone elses.

>>4214775
>No
Then what was? Can you provide an earlier game with jumping? I don't want to shift goal posts, but preferably a game where jumping is mapped to a button instead of auto-jumping from a ledge?

>>4214778
Not really opinion when you back it up. Easy misunderstanding though.

>>4214782
>Can you provide an earlier game with jumping?
Jumpbug.

>>4214789
You only back it up with your opinion though. Quake and Unreal are closer to what you want out of an FPS so therefor they're better. Your opinion isn't and wasn't universal though.

>>4214782
Steeplechase and Space Panic

>>4214805
You can debate mechanics. The Mods and firsts are objective.

>>4214034
BIOSHOCK. Simple shooter mechanics. It was nothing new, yet hailed as groundbreaking. The power of marketing turns turds into gold. Gotta love it.

>>4214791
Is it automatic bouncing when you touch a surface, or is it controlled with a button?

>>4214808
I'll give you Steeplechase, but there's no jumping in Space Panic.

>>4214809
I never cared or was talking about mods and firsts.

>>4214662
Capture and hold is the most popular shit now, did someone do it before tribes?

I'm sorry you think there's no skill or sloppy controls. I can fly up to a bulding at 200m/s land on an antenna on top of it and shoot you midair with a disc/mine combo.

>rainbow six had squads
Wasn't the team just called a squad? I don't remember any hierarchy in there in multiplayer. Not that that means anything, no one used it on tribes either, but it was a feature there. No one used mirrors/alternate viewports except one sniping script and some flag following stuff.

This was what I took out of op. This was a game with a lot of features that would be revolutionary again today

>dem vehicles
>dem turrets
>dat in game community, clans and clan identification tags, player names original and smurf coloring

>>4214834
>Capture and hold
Been a thing forever. Tribes didn't invent it or implement it in an fps first.

You're trying to say Tribes would revolutionize vehicles, turrets, and community? Are you 12 or just retarded?

>>4214847
Not him but what games before it were like that? turrets, vehicles, big maps, teams and game modes like CTF etc instead of deathmatch?

>>4214847
Like doom? Or quake world? I was on dialup and didn't have a ton of exposure but all I remember is runes and ctf.

Capture and hold was honestly the first time I ever saw it in tribes. unreal didn't have it until tournament came out, did it? It wad all about the link gun and shit.

>>4214881
Tribes had like 2 vehicles in the stock game. How the fuck is that revolutionary today, kiddo? Tell me. The rest is the same story. See Unreal, specifically facing worlds.
>>4214885
I don't know the first fps with capture and hold. But it wasn't tribes.

>>4214847
I guess you're not familiar? Or this is all just common in all games now? I haven't played fps in years.

So in t2 you could actually start a clan and it would be registered with dynamic. It would put special colors in your name where the clan tag goes, so no one could pretend to be in your clan.

You also had one real player name, that was in green, then you could make as many smurfs as you wanted and they would be in blue, and those names were registered too.

>vehicles
Okay, other games do them now, but t1 and t2 were the first ones that did them well.

It was also nice how they had team caps on deployments of turrets, and different turret types to limit where they could be deployed.

>>4214903
>How the fuck is that revolutionary today
Ohh right. Sorry, I forgot the thread topic. None obviously. The OP question is completely idiotic. I'll just close this tab now.

>>4214903
T2 had a bike, a tank, a mobile base with turret (you could spawn there and it had an inventory station), it had a fighter, a light and heavy air transport, and a bomber.

>I can't think of any games with cnh before tribes but it wasn't the first
Wew lad.

>>4214903
>I don't know the first fps with capture and hold. But it wasn't tribes.

>/vr/ talking about games

I don't know why the op pic was removed. It wasn't illegal and no one complained. It is like you don't want anyone to join the board.

>>4214916
Sorry I don't keep a list of first around. But a game mode like that was not done by Tribes first...
>wew lad
And confirmed underage. As I thought.

>>4214930
>vr plays tribes not just while an embryo, but as an egg and sperm in their parents parts
I was born with a disc in my hand.

-5/10 making me chuckle

>>4214941
Dank meme kiddo. I'm out.

>>4214818
>Is it automatic bouncing when you touch a surface, or is it controlled with a button?
You just asked about jumping, not how it jumps. Jumpbug is automatic.

>>4214930
>Sorry I don't keep a list of first around. But a game mode like that was not done by Tribes first...

If you don't know, then what makes you sure?

>>4214034
By who? An underage who just discovered this board? Why don't you wants some LPs of old games and tell us the answer?

>>4214034
In the long history of stupid questions on vr, this is at the top with the stupidest.

The first fps ever had cap the flag in it you goofs

>>4214049
No imagination.

>>4218059
Not really. Anything game that would be revolutionary already has been in it's day. So plonking that game out of history affects everything it influenced.

I never played Tribes back when it was popular.

What did I miss out on? Give me a quick rundown of the game and the community.

Also, how badly did Tribes:Ascend botch the original gameplay, and lore? What kind of people play it?

>>4218167
In my opinion you missed out on the most fun shooter of the era. Opinions vary of course, but that's my take.

As for a quick rundown of the game, it's a team vs FPS. Single player was just training with bots, no story to speak of and some lore somewhere but no one I knew even knew about it much less cared. By far the most popular game type was Cap the Flag. 95% or so of games and servers both T1 and T2 were CTF.

Maps are large, usually consisting of a bunch of terrain and two bases, but sometimes several smaller bases spread out. Typically the flag was inside a base somewhere and protected by turrets, shields etc. In the base game there are light, medium and heavy armors which can take appropriate types and numbers of weapons and armor/speed differences.

Games were usually between 12-64 players. Tribes 1 usually had larger servers, I was only ever in a handful of 64 player games of Tribes 2. Either way teamwork is important to winning. Anything heavy enough to storm a base isn't really fast enough to carry the flag and so both attacking and defending the base becomes a team effort.

Some people will stay to defend, set up extra turrets, help repair things, attack people invading etc. Others will head out either solo to make attack runs, go after enemy power generators, inventory, turrets etc. Others can get a vehicle to carry heavy attackers to mass an assault. Or head to the hills to snipe etc.

It was fun for me because there's so much to do and you can choose what role to fit into on a given day or match.

The community was fairly typical as I remember it. I never joined any large clans, but I did get people trying to recruit. Even got a guy kicked from one in hopes of getting me to join once. But I always preferred to just play when I wanted and with my friends.

As for Ascend, I never played it but from what I heard you don't get to pick your load out yourself just pick from premade ones. I don't know what kind of people play it

>>4219270
Plus it was the fastest game out there. Sniping at people from across the map when they were moving so fast they're barely a blip on your radar, and the fact that they could literally be anywhere thanks to jetpacks... man, that was some sweet combat.

>>4219280
And on the flip side, disk launcher jousting was unlike anything and really cool and fun.

Also I didn't have space to mention, Tribes 1 had a very active modding community. I rarely played on vanilla T1 servers. The base game was good, but a little thin in some ways and there were a bunch of base mods that improved it. There were tons of other more in depth ones as well. My favorite were the Shifter ones which had a ton of classes, weapons and items.

But there were some that were WW2 themed, another that was wild west with the bikes being janky horses. Even a Star Wars one that was never finished.

Tribes 2 never got modded as much or (in my opinion) as well. The shifter mod took a long time and didn't have the same flavor. On the flip side though, the vanilla game was much more solid and what most people ended up playing.

Launch day was crazy because the vehicles had this super precise flying system that made them incredibly hard to control. Whole matches were people getting into ships and then crashing them immediately.

Pretty much by the next day there was a physics patch that made them much easier to handle, but eventually some mods used the old controls/physics and it was amazing what you could do in them.

>>4218052
Capture and hold is about capturing a remote base and holding it against the enemy. UT calls it uplink or something like that. It's how most Battlefield games run their multiplayer.

It wasn't popular in Tribes, but it's one of the most popular game types lately.

>>4218167
I played T1 and Ascend quite a bit.

Ascend was a bad Tribes game. I would concede it was a good shooter for its time, and I think the devs really cared about balance in their own way, but I don't agree with choices they made. They had to cater to the modern gamer and economy. They made it free 2 play/pay 2 win, and had to develop it as a UT game because everything is a UT game now.

The Tribes feel is so specific to large maps and large player counts that you can't do it right on UT. The maps weren't big enough.

As a balance choice, they really wanted to make the classes equal-ish, but felt that the mediums and heavies should dominate lights in a fight. This is really hard to do in tribes because being able to completely dodge an attack with skill is so much more important than tanking hits. It felt like the devs were really set against the light class. They kept nerfing the light/buffing the heavies until it was almost impossible to play as light doing anything except capping or sniping.

The whole classes thing was fucked and it was just so they could do their pay 2 win thing. You weren't just 'light' armor like you were in t1/t2 you had to say you were a 'scout' or 'infiltrator' or something. There was like 3 different lights, 3 different mediums, 3 different heavies, and each one restricted the weapons you could use to their own special set. In T1/T2 the only restrictions were you needed to be heavy to use a mortar launcher or missile launcher, and light to use a laser rifle.

>>4219318
It seemed like Tribes 2 had a much better rabbit scene than T1 and I was envious of that, but I could never get good at that.

Like these mother fuckers, I wish I could play that again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWV5WV6L_Kc&list=PLXPzE86CiBJAQmNqBz9bCwMIQ_SFsIKSJ

>>4219914
>You will never go so fast in an FPS that you skip off of water again.

>Yes I could go play Tribes Next but I also don't have time to get gud again.

>>4219914
T2 in general had slightly more popularity for the varied games I think. I never really played much Rabbit though.

>>4219907
>old enough to play starsiege: tribes in the year 2004 when there were still populated servers

>>4219914
Disk Launcher is one of the best weapons ever. That video gave me such a nostalgia boner.

>>4214386
youve got a case of TMAYFF (too much acronyms you fucking faggot), only WC1 is unambiguously readable in vr context

>>4220118
No one cares if you can't follow.

>>4214881
>CTF etc instead of deathmatch?
dark forces JK, released 11 months before tribes1, i just checked

>>4214916 >>4214923
what exactly is the "capture and hold" CTF variation?
dark foces 2 jedi knight had a flag glue to whoever took it, and had a "king of the hill" mode, is it wither of these?

was was it holding your ground around a fixed flag, and hold said flag if a certain radius around a flag had majority or exclusivity occupation by your team? but not like king of the hill, but several flags around the map and victory was achieved upon capturing them all?

>>4220142
Capture and hold is not a CTF variation.
In a typical C&H map, there would be several objective markers around the map, at least 4. The marker is just a switch you need to bump with your player. They were usually hidden so you couldn't very easily ski up to it, you had to slow down and walk up to it, unless you had exceptional skill. Tied to the objective marker would be other base assets like various turret types, inventory/ammo/health stations vehicle stations, sensors.

Once your team tagged an objective, they would get all those assets on their side and could use them until they were either destroyed or the other team took the objective back. Also while they owned the objective, the team itself would receive score, and once the score was high enough, the high team would win the map.

This might be similar to king of the hill, if there were multiple hills, and multiple teams, but usually only two. You didn't necessarily need to hold all the objectives on the map, but your team would win quicker because each objective would be adding to the team score. I didn't see anything much like it until UT2k4 but I was poor and didn't have a variety of exposure.

There was also find and retrieve, where there would be like 8 flags in the middle of the map, and 4 teams and you had to either hold all 8 on your base flag stands, or have the most flags when the time limit ran out.

The last original game mode that comes to mind is Defend and Destroy, where whoever destroys the enemy base first wins.

I am not sure what you mean by 'flag glue to whoever took it'

C&H seems very similar to battlefield conquest gameplay, and unreal's onslaught.

There was also a feature in beta for 'team energy' that combined spawn tickets and loadouts. Every item purchased, including armor/your spawn had a cost. The team starts with X energy and the generator refills it while it is not damaged. This could have been part of any other game type. It seemed like a deprecated feature

>>4220351
>I am not sure what you mean by 'flag glue to whoever took it'

Doesn't he just mean holding it?

>>4222480
That's all I can figure too but it was such an odd phrase I would like him to clarify. Some games slow you down if you are holding the flag, so maybe he meant that glue?

>>4222502
Well it sounds like he looked up what game had modes like this pre-tribes and posted what he found so he may not be very familiar with what he's talking about.

>>4214034
This sounds like an impossible question. Wouldn't something groundbreaking already have been groundbreaking?

>>4219907
Shazbot!

Fuck I miss Tribes

>>4224798
yup...

>>4214362
>-Dead Rising (most people think of it as the most original game ever but it's just a 3d zombie rehash of river city ransom)

Except unlike River City Ransom, Dead Rising is actually good.

Reminder that Double Dragon NES > Double Dragon Arcade > power gap > River Shitty Ransom

>>4225489

>>4224365
No if the vast majority ignores it.

>>4225507
I want to hurt you badly.

>>4225507

u = fag

>>4227097
13 year old screenshot OC.

>>4227431
Then it wouldn't be groundbreaking.

>>4227443
>>4227440
What is all this triggering about?

>>4214723
>Solomon's Key for the iphone
I feel like Chu Chu Rocket would have some legs as an iPad game

>>4225507
>Double Dragon NES > Double Dragon Arcade > power gap > River Shitty Ransom
I don't care how mad people get, this is the correct ranking

>>4214034
>totally not an indie dev looking for old obscure games to rip off

>>4228476
Lol