/vr/ - Retro Games

>Not emulating
>Not playing old games in HD

Yeah, no

>>416942
>Emulating
>Playing games with filters

You're not /vr/. You're not /vr/ at all.

>>416942
Do you forget what board you're on?

>>416942
oh my god leave please

>>416952
I can understand nostalgia being a driving force here, but CRT televisions are fucking terrible. Why would anyone willingly use one?

>>416891

HD scaling does bad things to visuals and input latency on games designed specifically for SD displays. No way around it.

CRT TVs look nicer to me and feel much more reliable. Maybe I'm just stuck in the 90's.

>>416971
Are you even trying?

>>416971

>playing composite consoles on HD televisions

Can we ignore the /v/tard and have a good thread please?

also, screen is not of my TV.

>>416971
Because they aren't terrible at all and that's ridiculous hyperbole?

Can we ignore the /v/tard please? He's just going to hang around and shit on the thread if you indulge him.

>>416891
>CRT televisions
you mean boat anchors?

>>416971
>Playing anything below 7th gen on an HDTV

>>416971
>>416942
pic related

>>416891
RCA made decent tubes back in the day. My parents have one of the old cabinet tv's from the early 80's. It's still in their basement and still works. The typical downfall of most CRT's is the dismal audio, but an amp solves that

>>417039
Gamecubes look great with component. Ps2 looks passable.

>>417063
Good to know

>>417072
I agree. Also, Xbox with component and Dreamcast with VGA are both amazing.

>>416942
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip6WuOvK8EU
Please check yourself before you wreck yourself.

>>417072

PS2 can look better if you use GS mode selector to force 480p to get rid of the shitty interlacing and eliminate deinterlacing artifacts.

oh man now I wanna play oracle of seasons, but it's at home 90 miles away :(

>>416971
>but CRT televisions are fucking terrible

Good CRT TVs like Sony Trinitrons are unbeatable for older console games

>>417170
use your computer

Picked this one up for 10 bucks just today
Did I do good?

>>417194
I sold that same television for $10 today

>inb4pvm

>>417194
Took me a sec to recognize Vectorman. I'm not exactly that knowledgeable about them myself, but for $10 looks nice

>>417214
You're in luck, because after years of searching I've made peace with myself and accepted that they just don't exist in canada.
I'm fucking stealing the first one I see next time I'm at a uni or hospital, I've searched to hard for no reward

>>417236
what's pvm?

closeup of the 27 inch sony trinitron i personally use. hooked up via cheap multi-console s-video (i hear it's basicly just composite out of these cheap cables)

>>417247
same trinitron and you can see the cheap multi-cables in the front. (has a couple component inputs in the back)

>>416891
>went through 4 pages
Not that there's another thread going or anything, but you should use the catalog's search box before starting a thread. Don't hunt through the pages.

>>417269
is that... a tiny window behind the bed?

>>417363
yes it is, pointlessly tiny because the ceiling of this room is at a slant. the room has a proper window to the right of the picture though.

>>417239

Public View Monitor. Really high quality CRT displays, though the design doesn't scale well so there aren't really any good ones bigger than 24"

They're normally used for video surveillance, for which image clarity is very important.

They're also expensive.

>>417269
>that photo editing to hide your reflection in the glass

>>417393
that you for teaching me something anon

>>417247
>i hear it's basicly just composite out of these cheap cables

You can test them with a multimeter's continuity check. In a proper S-Video cable, the composite pin on the console connector should not be hooked up to any of the pins on the S-Video connector.

eg: pin #9 on a SNES AV connector should not demonstrate continuity to any of the S-Video pins on the other end.

>>417402
i am used to people that like to edit shit into pictures.

Thinking about using the the mini crt TV from our van for a while. The manual says it has a 'Nintendo port' on it and everything.

>>417406
thank* I don't even

>>417214
In during PVM
Got this PVM yesterday (my first) for $25 on craigslist, it's a 13" model and in pretty much perfect condition.

I don't have any RGB cables right now, though, so I have to settle for SVideo until I can get the cash together to buy SCART cables and an RGBS breakout adapter. Still looks awesome, though, even in composite mode. My cameraphone doesn't do it justice.

>>417442
Here's what NES composite looks like. Not too bad, but I wish getting/modding an RGB or SVideo capable one wasn't such a pain in the ass

>>416891
RCA is alright. They are still in bussiness so that is a plus. I use a phillips magnavox 19pr19. Not mine but pic related.

I also have a shitty quasar vv1300 and a massive 70 lbs Sanyo flat screen CRT shit I bought at Walmart seven years ago.

>>417442
>buy SCART cables and an RGBS breakout adapter

/diy/ reporting.

I have a CRT for music games. Feels good to have 0 lag.

>>417470
I'm considering making one, but buying SCART stuff in the US is going to end up costing me so much any way I might as well spend extra on a nicely made cable that has that composite sync cleaner chip in it. They're not wildly expensive, about $50 shipped

My grandma still has one of those wooden beasts with the knobs on the front. It's still on the floor, like all old TV's.

Is there a reliable adapter to hook up RGB to VGA?
I haven't been able to find a TV good enough for me, but I have some nice CRT computer monitors that I would love to use.

>>417583
The issue is if your computer monitor would support a 15Khz signal. Most don't.

>>417605
What about the box converters?
Like this
http://www.amazon.com/Brainydeal-S-video-Computer-Converter-Adapters/dp/B003VJF688/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1365654788&sr=8-2&keywords=rca+to+vga

>>417156
explain further

>>417656
I have a similar one to that, it actually converts the video using a built in encoder so it wouldn't look nearly as good as a real RGB signal but using S-Video probably wouldn't look too bad if you set the resolution as low as possible. If you don't have any other alternatives it's not a bad option, but definitely not optimal.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43256

after reading this, I want that BVM

>the CRT I have does a ringing noise
>all the thrift stores in my town are charging 50 dollars for one

>>417827
that's beyond gorgeous
Also reading further down that 4:3 plasma is awesome too, I didn't even know they made those

How do the CRTs used in old arcade cabinet/cocktail games compare?

>>417873
They're pretty much the same as PVMs as far as I know, just guaranteed to be driven by an RGB signal from the game's PCB. Some later arcade games/monitors that do 31KHz and 640x480 are basically big CRT PC monitors.

>>417873

They're natively 15KHz RGB monitors, so pretty good.

Not quite a PVM, but they can make them big without looking like shit.

>>417269
oh dear lord, this image makes me so glad that I'm not a "real" retro gaming nerd, from that room I'm guessing you are some fat worthless neck beard

>>417402
hahaha, I was wondering what that was, suspicion confirmed

little 13'' samsung, not too bad I've had this bitch over 15 years probably

>>416891
Is that LoZ Oracle of Ages? That's one of my favorites...

I wonder if these sort of images are what fuel the morons that think CRT TVs were full of ugly visible scanlines and then use dumb filters that replicate that and think they are being "authentic" not realizing that it didn't look the way it does in the pictures

>>417442
>>417457
And another picture of the whole setup for scale. Modded PS1 and Saturn, SFC, FC, NES, SNES, and Dreamcast. Have an N64 and crappy Genesis clone elsewhere.

Looking to connect my PC to my CRT TV. The only input the TV has is composite. Do VGA to composite adapters work well? Basically, if I ran a SNES emulator on it, would it look as good as my SNES does?

>>418007
>having an actual famicom
how much money did you wast on having a machine that plays games in language you don't understand

>>418019
and a super famicom for that mater, you are pathetic, what a fucking waste of money, is being able to brag to people you will never meet online really that important to you?
yes, no matter what you say it probably is, which is just sad

>>416942
>Emulate n64
>suddenly super sharp polygons
>textures as muddy as before
>Meshes as muddy as before
>character models clash with environment
>everything feels like a no-name shareware title
absolutely disgusting

>>418019
What if he can speak Japanese?

my hella cool TV

>>417916
>>417993
>>418019
>>418039
Awfully /v/ in here tonight.

>>418019
about $30. I bought it in Tokyo. Very few FC games are text heavy, anyway.

>>418014
If you're talking about something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CJOLBW
The quality isn't too bad especially if you use SVideo and run the monitor at the lowest possible res (force 640x480 or 320x240), but it definitely won't look as good as a real SNES. On cheaper CRT TVs it doesn't look too different, but you'll run into screen tearing and stuff unless you absolutely force the res as low as possible.

>>418035
people that own that shit never do unless they are actually japanese, they get it as a way to make their nerd peen bigger

>>418052
Is it tuned to channel three?

>>418051
>not caring about nerd peen

>>418049
how was my point about people that use shitty scanline filters thinking that's the way tvs actually looked /v/ in any way?

>>418064
i guess idk

maybe 4

>>418072
Because you're being an unpleasant person and /v/ is where all the unpleasant people go to be unpleasant.

>>418080
I was making a point, not actively trying to be unpleasent, the only posts where I was actively trying to be unpleasent was the neckbeard gamer who own japanese systems, but that was for his own good

>>418091
Actually one of the main reasons I bought them was to play cheap SFC versions of games I also bought in Japan like Kirby Super Star, Rockman 3, Mega Man X, Yoshi's Island, Starfox, Kirby's Adventure, etc.

The best way to play retro games is on the same model TV you played the games on as a child.

>>418101
I have no clue what the model of TV my parents had when I was a kid though...

>>418091
>that was for his own good

You know what's for his own good? Letting him do what he wants.

>>418109

Call them up and ask. You must get to the bottom of this. Get the brand, the size if possible, and get to googling.

>looking up PVMs on Craigslist
>click one
>first picture

Well I know that they are trustworthy Americans

>>418050
The TV only has the composite input. The reviews have me really skeptical. And screen tearing sounds terrible...

What is the best solution to using a CRT TV as a monitor for emulation?

pls respond

>>418152
Honestly I only ever ran into screen tearing with mine when I had the monitor set to 800x600 or higher, forcing it lower than that seemed to clear it up. If all you've got is composite, it's basically your only option as far as I know.

>>418132
Is that a display picture over the screen?

>>418152
As for those reviews, I can guarantee that 99% of the "I can't get a picture" ones are complete retards who don't flip the little dip switches that switch between PAL and NTSC. I own two of them actually, both have worked just fine.

>>418189
it looks legit, but the top and the bottom look messed up, would not buy

>>418226
>>418189

Yeah guy is asking $100 for it while same model is going for $55 from someone else.

So what's the big deal about the Sony PVMs? I've been thinking about looking into high-quality retro-suitable CRTs and I keep seeing the PVM mentioned. What's the best way to look for one on say, Craigslist? Are they known as anything else?

I currently run a 23" Sylvania that my dad left me for free. It looks good in my opinion except for some reason the lower right corner kinda warps the image off-screen. You can see it in the pic if you pay attention to the shape of the background grid. Does anyone know if this is a fixable thing?

>>418242
See >>417393

Basically great image because they were meant to be stared at all the time. There's really nothing like it. Any normal tube is fine but once you get a PVM it's so crispy.

>>418257
plus they usually take RGB input

>>418242
This page has a nice list of professional video monitors that might pop up on craigslist and accept RGB.
http://kaikoshumi.net/?p=104

>>418295
I actually have access to a nice NEC MultiSync, but it uses "BNC" connectors. I have no idea what that is, is it bad? can I convert it to standard RGB jacks somehow?

>>418362
You can buy BNC to RCA/Phono adapters for basically nothing online. It's just a different kind of plug, it's pretty nice actually, you apply pressure to the spring loaded plug and then twist to attach/detach it so it stays secure.

>>418242
>retro-suitable CRT
this is such a stupid concept, you didn't care about this shit when you were a kid, did you? why isn't what you already have good enough? why waste thousands of dollars on something that changes the picture so little that you can barely tell? it's like the "audiophiles" that swear by FLAC

Did Sega or anyone else ever release RGB/Component cables for Saturn or am I going to have to get the thing modded?

>>418370
if it's got a composite (single plug) sync input, you can use something like this with any given console's SCART cable and not have to worry about BNC adapters at all

http://www.retrogamingcables.com/sony-pvm-scart-converter-bnc.html

>>418378
nigga you can buy these displays for less than $50 not thousands, most people just don't know about them

>>418378
>thousands of dollars
>something that could take nearly $200 tops for a considerably better experience

gr8 b8 m8

>>418370
>It's just a different kind of plug
So, does that mean these have built in speakers? I mean, it has 5 BNC connectors on the back, so I'm guessing at least one of them has to be taking sound.

>>418398
Get a SCART cable and a breakout adapter/cable/board like in
>>418401

>>418408
If it has speakers, you'd know.

>>418408
Most of them have at least mono audio, yeah

>>418378
>implying FLAC isn't better

>>418378
>thousands of dollars

No.

There's nothing wrong with buying the highest quality CRT for $50-$150 to use with your RGB modded consoles

>>418378
Actually, as a kid I thought NES RF on my crappy, grainy, cheap CRT looked like total shit. I was glad to chuck it when we finally upgraded to a better TV.

I'm also not sure why you think upgrading a retro game setup costs thousands. Maybe if you're building an arcade or something, but these old CRT TVs are generally unwanted and often given away for anywhere between free and cheap. From there all you need are cables and converters, which don't cost much on principle (except for GCN component cables, Jesus CHRIST).

>>418420
>GCN component cables
at least you can get a Wii and use component on that. sucks about the gameboy player though

>>418378

Sure is trying to be /v/ in here tonight.

>>418430
Aren't the Wii component cables and GC ones the same?

Sorry I feel like I missed something

>>418401
>>418417
>>418420
ok, now I feel a bit stupid, but I was going by the posts that said the high quality sony CRTs were "really expensive" several times

>>418424
It's an ad I'm seeing on craig's list, but it's pretty hard to tell from the pics. Guess I'll just check with the guy, I mean, it is local and only $10.

>>418452
Nah, Wii has a different A/V port. The GCN component cable has some wacky encoder in it or something

>>418462
I'm going to venture the opinion, based on that grainy picture, that it doesn't have speakers.

>>418462
Does it list the model number? make sure it can do 15KHz (not just 31KHz plus like normal PC monitors) or you won't be able to hook up any old consoles to it

>>418462
Those 5 ports are probably R, G, B, HSync, and VSync

>>418416
technically, they are, but it's been scientifically proven that most human ears can't make out the frequency differences, they are best for what they were originally intended for, archiving to rip to a CD or lossy media.

I wish my PC monitor did native 15KHz

this is close enough I guess

>>418483
I can tell the difference easily between low bit rate MP3s and FLAC. It's a gaping chasm between the two. That is easy to pick out.

Shit yeah, I found a 20-inch PVM less than an hour away from me. Listing is worded weird but it looks like it's being sold amongst other random professional video equipment for $75. Either way I'm gonna get dat. Thanks for the suggestions guys.

>>416891
what advantages does a CRT Television have over, say an SD LCD which I can also afford

>>418514
>SD LCD
These don't exist.

If you found an LCD which had, natively, 240 lines on the screen, it would work pretty well for retro games. This is not something which you can buy.

SD CRT televisions are capable of natively displaying the video signal from retro game consoles.

So I'm not really that interested in getting anything like a PVM, but I do want to replace my shitty JVC TV. Is it safe to assume that most Trinitron TVs are going to be pretty good? I see them once in a while at the local Goodwill.

>>418512
>low bit rate MP3s

where did anyone mention low bitrate ones?

>>418521
dude not even that guy but low bit rate MP3 has pretty easily hearable compression artifacting if you know what to listen for. 320Kbps MP3's I can't tell the difference, though

>>418514
See >>417097

Somewhat cheesey video but it makes the point

Basically better image and no input lag.

If you can't find a cheap CRT at a Goodwill or something I don't know what to tell you.

A decent PVM would cost like $50.

>>418514
any digital display is going to have to perform and analog-to-digital conversion, which creates delay/lag. Additionally, any interlaced signal (read: any old console's video output) is going to have to be deinterlaced, which introduces even more lag as well as visual artifacts.

>>418546
>any interlaced signal (read: any old console's video output)
Old consoles do not output an interlaced signal. They output a non-standard 263-line progressive signal.

>>418514
The biggest advantage of CRTs is the superior motion quality. CRTs flicker, which means every frame is an accurate sample of a single point in time. This is very similar to natural types of motion such as running through dense vegetation in sunlight. Human brains are very good at interpreting this. LCDs on the other hand smear that point in time over the entire frame time. This is a highly unnatural type of motion unlike anything in nature. It's equivalent to an object moving by repeated rapid teleportation. The human brain can only resolve it as blurry motion. This is an unavoidable consequence of low framerates (yes, 60fps is low) on a non-flickering display. The only way to get CRT-quality motion on an LCD is by simulating CRT-style flicker. Most LCDs are incapable of doing this.

See http://www.blurbusters.com/ for details.

>>418557
Regardless, the signal is still going to have deinterlacing applied to it by the television because it is unaware of that fact, even though both fields contain the same data

Without fail, every time I go into a CRT thread, I find I know even less than before.

>>418593
Plug game in old TV

Play game

>>418593
It's a learning experience.

>>418575
BTW, this is completely irrelevant in the case of almost all N64 games and most PS1 games, because they have lower framerates than the screen refresh rate. In that case not even a CRT can save your motion quality.

>>418618
>set screen to 30hz refresh
>eyes melt

>>418481
So in summary, I wouldn't be able to hook my consoles to one of these, huh? Shame

>>418623
If it supports 15KHz video modes, and you buy a sync splitter/amplifier (LM1881N circuit), it should work.

>>418621
Or even 50Hz refresh, which is why all PAL games are completely worthless and I only played imports.

>>418631
I think you need some additional logic gates in order to break down composite sync into HSync too, there are SCART some breakout boards that I can't find in stock anywhere that have done this in the past.

Regardless that monitor might not support 15KHz anyway, you're better off just going with a PVM

>>418631
That looks like a PC monitor which typically doesn't support 15KHz.

>>418643
LM1881 is specifically designed for this purpose. It's a very simple circuit. I used to use this to run a PS1/PS2 on an old Amiga monitor.

http://www.gamesx.com/misctech/lm1881.htm

>>416891
ITT: Poor kids with CRTs pretending they "just bought" them

>>418661
you sure got us dude

>>418656
>http://www.gamesx.com/misctech/lm1881.htm
I don't see any Horizontal Sync Output in that diagram.

Look at the first reply to this guy's thread:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=35885
you need additional logic gates to get HSync

>>418661
Nobody buys CRTs, they find them for free

>>418523
Well, the 3DS actually has a vertical resolution of 240 pixels from the look of things. Shame it's not hacked yet.

>>418528
Yeah, they are great. Make sure it's an SD set, though, not an HD Hi-Scan or Super Fine Pitch model. Take down the model number of the TVs, and do your homework. HD Trinitrons don't play well with the low resolution of old video games. SD Trinitrons are awesome, though.

>live in Ontario
>PVMs, PVMs fucking nowhere
>order a 20m4u from eBay after a month
>It arrives and stops working after 5 minutes
>have to drive to Toronto to get a repair estimate at a Sony repair facility
>they charge $120 an hour, plus parts

Kill me.

>>418810

That's what you get for being an obsessive hipster. Could've ordered a really nice IPS LCD.

>>418810
>not using the opportunity to learn analog video electronics firsthand

>>418815
To be fair, I haven't actually lost anything but time here. I was refunded immidiately without being required to send the monitor back.

>>418829
Yeah, nah.

>>418810

I live in Toronto.

I can smell your blood. Know fear. Tonight. You.

>>418891
At least Toronto actually has the odd handful of worthwhile monitors.

Hamilton has fucking nothing, ever.

>>418678
>I don't see any Horizontal Sync Output in that diagram.
That's the amplified composite sync output. I've never run into a monitor that had a problem with it.

>>418815
>Could've ordered a really nice IPS LCD.
Again, tell me where to find a 240-line LCD.

>>417476

Mah nigga. Commodore 1085S user reporting in. It's the best Display I ever had next to my Trinitron.

>>418378

Confirmed for having shit eyes and ears.

>>418019
you realize most fc games aren't that text-heavy right? games like karateka, mappy, goonies etc. basically just have the menus and those are already in english. i have a honeybee converter so i'm good, but i'd consider picking a fc and diskdrive up for the added soundchannels in castlevania 3 + kid icarus

Not entirely related, but I dug up my old SDTV and NES from the closet and noticed the image was distorted, assuming it's because the old RF cable has some problems.

I also noticed the red and yellow outputs on the side. Can I use one of pic relateds to connect to my TV or does it need to be more specific cable?

>>419591
For the NES, any generic cable will work, yes.

>>419608

Cool, I'll go buy one of those then. Thanks.

Im looking to buy a trinitron pvm for myself, but when i search there are a shit ton of models, any that come recommended as best for /vr/?

>>419641
Any help?

>>418080
This. Let's keep /vr/ a place for pleasant people and pleasant discussions.

>>417939
omfg oilers get out of my city you nigger

>tfw you have a Bush BTV18 14" CRT Television

I don't have a good camera, so pic related, and even if I did, all I could show off would be Dreamcast games.

Oh wait so the very slight button input lag on my Master System is due to the TV? I wondered why cleaning the controller out didn't fix it.

Only problem I have with CRTs is how massive they are, I guess I've gotten too used to superslim HD displays. Not sure where I'd put even a small CRT in my room.

Sony PVM. 'nuff said

>>419783

Yes, it's due to the analog-to-digital conversion + upscaling of the picture your HD TV set is doing everytime it has to display another picture. Also, CRT tv sets are not so big when you're used to use them.

Not mine but pic related.
>$10 at a yard sale.
Am I doing good guys?

>>418512

Who can't? What an unfair comparison.

Look at this joker.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Sony-PVM-9042QM-9-Colour-Monitor-Professional-Pro-Av-4-3-16-9-Format-/200875980180?pt=AU_Home_Personal_Security&hash=item2ec5243594&_uhb=1#ht_740wt_1397

>>416891

There are good CRTs and there are shit tube televisions.

The most common ones are the shit ones.

>>419890
>$450 AU

So whats that, like £10?

I've been wanting to get a PVM but there are so many different models and prices that I'm not really sure where to start.

>>419923

£308.94 actually.

>>418523

>SD LCD

Yes they do.

What do you think they had 13 years ago?

They had 852x480 LCD TVs. Technically it's EDTV but it still below 1280x720/1024x576

Even plasmas in like 1999-2000 were like that, or they were 1024x768 with rectangular pixels.

Yet they had HD CRTs at the same time that could actually do HD and were better all around. Yet barely 6-7 years later they ended up dying off.

Find it funny though that at the time, TVs were struggling with 'ETCH-DEE', meanwhile computer monitors were already at 2048x1536 or in the fw900's case, 2304x1440.

>>419976
>They had 852x480 LCD TVs. Technically it's EDTV but it still below 1280x720/1024x576
Right, and it's still not what you want for playing 256x224, 320x224, or 320x240 video games.

>>418483
You know FLAC is specifically made to get rid of the ones that humans cant hear and keep the ones they can right? I think youre completely misinformed.

>>419976
>What do you think they had 13 years ago?
Well, 13 years ago there were no LCD TVs, only PC monitors and those sucked and were not viable for gaming at all.

I'd be surprised if there don't exist at least a few SD LCD TVs though, even though they didn't really become common until HD became popular. However, even SD LCDs wouldn't have native resolutions corresponding to those used by the old consoles.

>>420063

There was LCDs in 2000, dolt.

It is 2013.

I recall when I was going TV shopping, they even had plenty, including plasmas. They weren't HD however, were overpriced, and had abysmal colours/contrast.

Not to mention TFT monitors at the time had like 25-35 ms delay.

A 1600x1200 LCD monitor from 2002 was like 900-1200 dollars.

>>420052
2/10.

No one is going to fall for that.
>FLAC is specifically made to get rid of
>Lossless
>get rid of

>completely misinformed.

>>419621
>buy one of those

Who doesn't have a container full of these shits at home?

>>419923
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PVM-9042QM-9-Colour-Monitor-Professional-Pro-Av-4-3-16-9-Format-/200875980180?pt=AU_Home_Personal_Security&hash=item2ec5243594&_uhb=1#ht_740wt_1397

$472.41 Apparently

>>420076

>mfw 13 years ago isn't even in the 90s anymore

>>420079
Its true, look it up. I thought everyone knew that. Otherwise it wouldnt be able to compress and it would be a pointless wave clone.

>>420063

False, LCD televisions were around even before the 90s. LCD TVs before consumers even were able to get them were in the 70s.

CRT itself was already antiquated by the 70s.

>>420052
I think you're getting it confused with MP3.

Had this tv in my room since forever, only use it to play on PS2 once every while. Should I keep it if I want to get retro?

>>420076
>There was LCDs in 2000, dolt.
PC-monitors, yeah. But they had terrible ghosting issues and you wouldn't be able to connect a console to them anyway.

I love coming to /vr/ and seeing these threads. Coming from /g/ this is a topic I like.

>>420180

No, there were actual LCD televisions in 2000.

>>420162
Im not
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flac

>>419937
Any help?

>>420156
Source?
I know the LCD technology itself has been around for a long time - I mean we had GameBoy in the early 90s - but it was monochrome, and that level of LCD technology wouldn't have been usable for TVs. Even the PC-monitor LCDs that were around in the mid-late 90s were utter shit. Even if LCD TVs existed then, they would be extremely inferior to CRTs of the time.

>>420180

see
>>420156

I don't see why this is even an issue, LCD isn't a new display technology.

>>420131
Flac is lossless, like gif. In principle that means that all compression is done only to reduce the size of the file that stores the data, not to change the data itself at all. By "get rid of the sounds you can't hear", you mean lossy techniques like mp3 and ogg; yes, the loss of data is undetectable, but it's there. Lossless should allow you to regain an exact copy of the original data it came from.

Why are we discussing mp3 and FLAC in a CRT thread?

>>420198
I think I might be getting that part mixed up, but I could have sworn it did

>>420192

There was some mini/pocket TVs using LCD technology. But yes, they were in Black and White.

>>420207

Because of some faggot who couldn't understand why some people care about something he doesn't care about.

>>420192

I myself am rather 'old' by 4chan standards. I remember in 1988 sharp had a 14 inch full color TFT tv you could buy.

Walkman also had little LCDs in them (not full color though, I remember they were like blue)

2000 isn't ancient. He is right, they had plasmas and everything.

Though the LCDs were like 3000 dollars compared to only dropping like 1200-2000 dollars on really good HD CRT.

And yes, they had HD CRTs in 2000. HD itself was already a thing in the 90s.

I intend to buy a widescreen 40" flatscreen CRT compatible with component cables

how rad is that?

I had the same TV till 2008.

A 29-32 inch magnavox that only had coaxial and had a round screen.

I think it was an early 90s model, can't remember.

My point was that it looked like shit. I wish when I was younger I had a better CRT. I knew they existed but we never needed new stuff.

My younger brother was unaware CRTs good display a clear picture because of this TV.

We played like games from the 90s to mid noughties on it.

When I got a good CRT monitor along with an older high end CRT TV he was in shock on how good everything looked.

First thing he said was "how is it so clear?"

I wish I grew up playing on good ones.

>>420208
well, lossy is any method of compression that cuts down the original data in some way, like jpeg and its blocky artifacts; you lose some data, hence "lossy". Lossless is any technique for storing the data more efficiently and smaller with encoding algorithms like Huffman etc; and without losing the integrity of the original data, hence "lossless".

sorry for offtopic

>>420217
>I myself am rather 'old' by 4chan standards. I remember in 1988 sharp had a 14 inch full color TFT tv you could buy.
Huh, interesting. Was it any good?
They certainly weren't common though.

>Walkman also had little LCDs in them (not full color though, I remember they were like blue)
Yeah, I know mini-LCDs for text display have been around for a long time.

>2000 isn't ancient. He is right, they had plasmas and everything.
Yeah, I know. I remember they were selling plasmas long before LCD TVs became common.

>And yes, they had HD CRTs in 2000. HD itself was already a thing in the 90s.
Yeah, I've heard about that. Can't have been 1080p though, and I imagine it was mostly an enthusiast thing back then. IIRC, it first started getting mainstream mention with the "Full HD" rage in the mid-late 2000s, which was also when LCD TVs started replacing CRTs for real.

>>418039
Where's the Super Famicom?
Oh wait, you mean this?
>filename
I guess 'merica got the cunt version.

>>420239

HD CRTs were only ever 4:3 HD or 16:9 (1280x720)

They never did 1080p, you're correct.

Though if you want to be specfic, CRT monitors could do 1080p, but the amount of 16:10 monitors were outnumber by 4:3 ones.

So you could play a 1080p movie on a 2048x1536 CRT, it'd just have black bars.

>>420239
>>420252

Also the real common HD CRT sets were rear projection, and most were horrid. I don't recall any good experiences with those.

>>417943
No, that's Oracle of Seasons.
He's two screens away from finding Ricky, probably headed towards the 3rd dungeon.

>>417164
Which trinitrons are good? I have one but it has very limited inputs ;_;

>>420330
To say the very least they are a little expensive.

>oracle of seasons
HNNNNG OP You have the best taste in GBC games.

>>417164
>>420330
Aren't they the ones that have annoying visible strings within the display?

>>420213
Correctly encoded lossy audio is indistinguishable from lossless to human ears. CRTs are obviously different than LCDs, so it's not a good comparison.

>>420252
I've never seen a household 720p HD CRT. Most of the consumer stuff was 960i/1080i only (lower horizontal frequency than 720p).

>>420256
Sony made a ton of direct-view HD tubes, up to 40" (the largest ever - the king of tubes - the 40XBR800).

>>420226
If it's an HD set, it won't work that great for retro games. 480p will be golden, though.

>>420239
>IIRC, it first started getting mainstream mention with the "Full HD" rage in the mid-late 2000s, which was also when LCD TVs started replacing CRTs for real.
You're thinking of 2006, when the LCD price-fixing scandal broke and prices dropped like a rock.

>>420412
You realize you have annoying visible blood vessels and a blind spot inside your eyes, right? Human visual system is very good at editing out non-moving defects.

should i buy a Sony Trinitron KV-29FX66E for 15€ (~20$)

>>420775
>You're thinking of 2006, when the LCD price-fixing scandal broke and prices dropped like a rock.
Yeah, more or less. That was also around the same time the response time on LCDs began to approach decent for gaming, and the same time I started replacing my old CRTs with LCDs.

>>420806
If it's got component/RGB inputs, go for it.

Make sure you can test it out first.

>year be 1998
>Zelda OOT about to be released
>old tv produces ugly green picuture
>buy this beast
>play new Zelda
>mind blown
Composite/Svideo/Rgb on back and composite on front. Love this shit.

>>419670
As long as they support RGB input, you should be alright,

>>420962
>Splatterhouse 3
My nigga.

>>420962
>Splatterhouse 3
For one birthday I really wanted Mortal Kombat, but my mom said it was too violent. So my dad and I went to Consumer Electronics to buy a game blind, and came home with Splatterhouse 3.

I thought my mom would be pissed but she ended up beating the game before I did.

>>416891
RCA is a Thomson company and used tubes manufactured in Indiana until they moved to Chinese tubes. I still have an Invar shadow mask ProScan from 1991 with S-video that is going strong after one PS replacement a few years ago. That was the first TV I ever bought with my own money, and I was the first person I know who could use the "S-VHS" (misnamed) SNES cable. The dude at G&G even asked me if I was sure I was buying the right cable when I bought it. I also have a small Chinese Philips (Thomson) with component inputs that is also very nice for SD games and video.

>>417063
The real problem is that they get dark and blurry over time after repeated use. Sound is actually a huge advantage of high end CRT TVs over flat panels, because you could fit nice, big drivers in the chassis that you can't do any more. All digital TVs I've ever heard sound like crap in comparison to any of my tube TVs over 20".

>>417583
Look up upscan converters and expect to pay no less than ~$100 for an acceptable Japanese model. Or use a no-lag capture card through your PC, but you'll end up deinterlacing.

>>418152
Absolute best way (which is actually not that great compared to using the actual console hardware) is to output your TV's lowest native resolution directly from your video card. If you have an empty slot, get an old video card with real analog TV out. S-video output is fine; you can get a passive adapter that will let you use it with composite.

>>418470
The GCN component cable has the DAC in it. Ingenious design. It keeps the cost of the DAC out of the console and helps guarantee that only first-party official cables are available. I wouldn't be surprised if the concept inspired Apple to do something similar with their Lightning cable.

>>419897
But the thing about the shit ones is that they will still not have the downsides of digital displays.

>>420178
Is that an AF44 or similar? I have one of these in 35" and use it as my largest SD display, mostly for N64/SAT/PS/DC arcade conversions. I also use it as a secondary display for arcade conversions on newer consoles because of its component inputs.

>>420217
There were color TV Walkman devices. Heck, there were some in the early '90s that had built-in Hi8/8mm players.

>>420256
For HD enthusiasts in the '90s, your real choices were direct-view CRT, rear projection CRT, and front projection CRT. Direct view had the best image. RP generally had the worst, but some models with large guns were simply unbelievable under ideal viewing conditions. FP CRT was always incredible, but you needed a dark room.

>>420775
There were better large HD tubes than the XBR800's in the prosumer A/V monitor market, such as the Monivisions.

I just have a flat screen CRT, I'd like a smaller, rounded one. How much do CRTs generally go for? I see people here like the Sony PVM or whatever but I see them for 200+ and...I need that money to hoard more games...

Is it bad that half of my excitement visiting my girlfriend is getting to use her Trinitron?

>>424857
Dump your girlfriend and get with that TV.

>>424303

Depends. Whatever you do though, buy locally. Saw a 15 incher at a garage sale last year for $15.

>mfw my crt cuts off the top edge and corners

I can't do it, I tried to play some Castlevania earlier and I couldn't stand it, I needed to hook my snes up to my hdtv. why the fuck does this crt have round corners good god

Someone send me a pvm or something decent for the love of god

>>423526
>I was the first person I know who could use the "S-VHS" (misnamed) SNES cable
JVC introduced the 4-pin DIN Y/C plug for their S-VHS players.

>>423526
>Or use a no-lag capture card through your PC, but you'll end up deinterlacing.
It's trivial to properly handle 240p on a PC. mplayer, at least, has a filter which shows each "field" in succession with no bobbing - exactly what is needed.

>>423526
>If you have an empty slot, get an old video card with real analog TV out
Be careful with this; a lot of them will only do 480i.

>>423531
>There were better large HD tubes than the XBR800's in the prosumer A/V monitor market, such as the Monivisions.
Large-format/presentation monitors are incredible, mostly because they're fucking huge multiscan displays. I've seen an NEC set that could scan all the way from 480i to 1080p (or at least 1600x1200, but that's higher frequency anyway), natively.

>>418132
>Look up PVM on craigslist and kijiji
>literally nothing but want-ads
>Look up PVM on ebay
>300$ shipping

So I heard they use these a lot in hospitals and labs right?
What if i just walked into one with some money and asked to buy oone

>>424303
>I see people here like the Sony PVM or whatever but I see them for 200+ and...I need that money to hoard more games...
PVMs will have a cylindrical screen, not a spherical one. Otherwise, the tension in the aperture grille would crush the tube.

>>417492
why would you even need composite sync when the pvms pull it from composite video?

>>424979
Some of them don't like feeding composite-level sync into the RGB sync inputs.

My retro setup, old TV from childhood in the late-90s that I still have, from some no-name brand. Definitely not the best but it's got nostalgic value. I have more consoles too but I only have a few hooked up at a time.

>>425116
>Ren and Stimpy

ya did good

>>425116
>dat infrared sensor bar

>>425297
>sensor bar

I remember how I used to treat that shit like a fragile piece of nasa hardware when I got it, and it's just 2 lights the remote detects

Probably the dumbest question you guys have heard yet, but if I were to hook this up to a monitor that supported 15Khz, would it work? I know the audio cables are pointless, but I'm reading that the video part of the cable is functional in the least. I have one of the laying around for some reason and was curious if it was worth snagging a CRT monitor and trying it.

>>425418
Forgot the link.
http://www.amazon.com/HDE-Adapter-S-Video-Cable-Video/dp/B000Y7T5UU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365732933&sr=8-1&keywords=composite+to+vga

made some fresh pictures up. closeup of a 27 inch sony trinitron.

connected via a generic multi-console via the s-video (has composite on it too so it's a shitty cable)

here is some demon's crest

some super metroud.

and lastly some Ninku import board game for the gameboy in the super gameboy.

>>425418
>>425425
Hooking a PC's VGA port up to a 15KHz monitor like this, or hooking a composite source to a 15KHz-capable monitor's VGA port?

Either way, you'll probably get a black and white picture.

>>425475
Okay, thanks. Good to know.

Having problems finding the proper specs, but would a Sony PVM-1943MD suffice for playing games? I found one at a respectable price.

>>427020
Just doing some quick research reveals that the 1943MD supports RGB but not YPbPr (What we commonly call component) which is a similar but still totally different ballgame from true RGB. While most PVMs support both standards in the same ports this is not one of them. That really limits your options to stuff that's been legitimately RGB modded and not converted from SCART to YPbPr. You do get composite and S-Video support but you're better off getting something like the 20M4U, 20L5, or 20M2MDU if you want something with the whole shebang.

>>427097
Don't most consoles support RGB output though?

I was under the impression that only the N64 didn't support RGB output, and the SNES/GameCube are just a matter of cable differences between NTSC and PAL.

>>427097
Where did you read that, I'm curious?

http://www.ampronix.com/content/web/sony_pvm2030.asp

I used to work there. company specializes in CRTs and medical-grade displays, but they have a decent amount of older PVM displays. You can ask the sales peeps to jew you down since they only cost the company salvage price.

>>427195
How much would I be looking at paying if I were to request one from here?

Got a 27" triniton flatscreen crt circa 2004 recently. 3 composite inputs, 1 svideo and 1 component. $50, plus they threw in a nice tv stand.

Did i do good? I didn't really do too much searching...

>>427161
Er, nevermind, I'm an idiot and am sleep deprived and totally forgot this existed:
http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony-pvm-scart-converter-bnc.html

This will work fine and will convert SCART to RGB. What I had in mind was the SCART-to-component converter that I use. Still, I'd rather have component compatibility just for stuff like the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube/Wii etc.

>>427181
I just googled the model number and checked various images of the inputs.

>>427265

Sounds pretty nice.

>>427297
I'm thinking the same. Problem is, I can't find a monitor that's 19 inches or larger that can be shipped to Canada for under $200 total.

I mean, if you can find something like that, you'd be my savior. But I've been looking for weeks and there's nothing local.

>>427330
...Or a good one, rather. The 1943 I found was about $150 or so and the only thing in that size range.

>>427253
depends really, but since they paid like 50bux for them and they're usually refurbs, you can negotiate a low price

ask for doug, he's a fag but he'll do anything for a sale

>>427330
I wouldn't know anything about shipping to Canada, but I know people swear by the 20M4U and 20M2MDU. 20L5 also seems nice (And according to the specs is a better monitor overall with 800 lines compared to the other two's 600 lines and 480p support) but finding opinions on that model for gaming use is really difficult compared to the others.

>>427472
I know about the 20m4u. I'm the guy who keeps posting about how I picked one up and it worked for 5 minutes before dying on me.

I'll keep my eyes open.

>>427472
>20L5 also seems nice (And according to the specs is a better monitor overall with 800 lines compared to the other two's 600 lines and 480p support)
The 20M4U has 800 lines. It's the ones ending in -2U that have 600.

>>424924
>JVC introduced the 4-pin DIN Y/C plug for their S-VHS players.
There's no such thing as an "S-VHS cable" any way you slice it.

>It's trivial to properly handle 240p on a PC.
I'm not talking about just 240p sources, otherwise the "deinterlacing" I mentioned wouldn't be an issue. You might be right about mplayer for use with interlaced sources, but is there a way to sync that to the interlaced output of an appropriate video card's TV encoder a la properly configured MAME w/ArcadeVGA?

>Be careful with this; a lot of them will only do 480i.
ArcadeVGA. And any that can do higher than 480i will be able to do component output, although the post to which I was replying was using a TV that only had composite input..

>Large-format/presentation monitors are incredible, mostly because they're fucking huge multiscan displays.
Point is that the XBR800 is far from the "king of tubes."

Ok /vr/ I need a bit of help here.
I got a dead daewoo DTH-21S7 that I never got to examine until now and to be honest I have no idea what could be the real problem.
As far as it goes the TV died 2 years ago and has been sitting in my parents's living room until recently, what happened? that's the thing the tv just went black out of the blue, no sound, no smell, no marks, no nothing. Now that I decided to open it I found myself a bit unable to figure out what is what and how it should work. I found however a faint heat mark where a bunch of resistors are sitting and found only one with an errouneous value. after that I just put the whole thing together and plugged it in like an idiot without even checking the fuse, not because I forgot but because I thought it didn't had one since it's a ceramic one and I didn't figure that out until it was too late, so now I have a tv that I'm too afraid to open because there's the chance that it got charged and the discharge of those things is awful.
Anyways, now I'm checking around for possible reasons and fixes to my problem and I figured out it's worth a shot to ask you guys about it, so any tips on the matter?

TL;DR: BROKEN CRT, WHAT DO?

>>429671

>TL;DR: BROKEN CRT, WHAT DO?

Discharge it and change the capacitors.

>>429729
I'm an idiot.
On it.

>>429785

Well at least you didn't made the same mistake as me 10 years ago, you didn't trashed it... I found 2 years later how to repair it.

>>428338
>You might be right about mplayer for use with interlaced sources, but is there a way to sync that to the interlaced output of an appropriate video card's TV encoder a la properly configured MAME w/ArcadeVGA?
No idea about 480i stuff, but I can use it to play 1080i material natively on my FW900.

>>428338
>ArcadeVGA
What a fucking scam. Every card on the market can output perfect 240p or 480i over its VGA port already.

>>429806
I got my dad to thank for that as he said he would send it to repair or do it himself.
He never did either of those.

Anyways a few checks on the capacitors later revealed to bear no charge and thus i decided to actually check the fuse this time, it's dead.
I need to check for other pieces that are dead now.