/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4173886
Yes they are. Sage in all fields. Its easier to deny something, than to comprehend it.

>>4173886
Nintendo of America, who didn't develop the games*

>>4173886
Authentic? Yes. Better? Maybe, maybe not.

>>4173896
>> This much denial

Sooo...how did the developers (no, not the advertising and marketing dept, definitely not them) intend for the average home user to replicate the sub-pixel motion trails and fucking 20 degree slanted pixels then?

Eh?

>>4173886

You're wrong, and ignoring historical context. There was a policy by Nintendo of America to put in-game graphics on the covers of games since so many Atari covers had been misleading. This is right after the crash, so they had to win people over. This also ignores that the Japanese, original box art, the ones that the actual Japanese devs would be aware of and know, is artwork rather than the game sprites.

>>4173908
With their imagination you fool.

Learn to look through the eyes of a child.

>>4173909

If you're claiming that this box art is what Nintendo intended the game to look like, you're wrong. Just so wrong

>>4173908

Lol, geometry issues in a typical crt could do it

This again, huh.
*hides thread*

>>4173916
This is what Mario looked like before he got turned into WAHOO BOING BOING.

>>4173886
Play old console on old CRT display. It like listen music on vinyl.

>>4173930
>It like listen music on vinyl.

Absolutely pointless except for the cocksucker faggot self satisfaction of aping people from another era like the poseur you are?

>>4173931
Analogue is something you must learn to appreciate

>>4173936
analog is something that I grew up with that is inferior in almost every possible case.

>>4173939

This.

>>4173939
Well, it really isn't but anon is wrong in any case.

Authentic would be listening on 1/2" tape at 15ips.

>>4173909
How the fuck did America crash a home console market? Fucking pathetic.

>>4173886
Good one OP, now you are truly baiting. lol

>>4173939
lol wat?
No, they weren't, at least for SD content.

LCD were worse than CRT in everything, except for the size.

>>4173886
The developer's intentions are irrelevant. Play a game however the fuck you want. It doesn't matter.

>>4173946
Atari had a monopoly, Warner bought them and change the politics, shovelware became a thing, original members of Atari got out...

No one trusted videogames anymore, Nintendo saved the american market by selling NES as a toy (that's why they used to come with a ROB).

>>4173997
Sounds like it was too corporate.

>>4173991
I think most people who start this shit are people who don't have a CRT and are trying to somehow justify how they play games. You'd be hardpressed to find someone who plays old consoles on a CRT who doesn't have an LCD and therefore the option to play their games on an LCD. They can handily try both and decide which they prefer. Because, yeah, who gives a shit which display other people use?

Honestly LCDs with emulated scanlines would be perfectly fine if it weren't for the shitty motion blur and lack of contrast

>>4174010

I have both but tend to favor my lcd lately

Does anyone ever defend the NES' composite output?

I know on the genesis and SNES, the common argument is that composite blur creates better gradients and dithering.
But 8-bit games almost never have any kind of shading. And it can't be "muh jaggies" either because it doesn't even blur the image, it just creates a gross dot crawl effect on the edges of sprites. (Unless the background is pitch black, then it looks rather sharp.)

>>4174040

This. Either play NES over composite or its not authentic. Any RGB/pvm autist wanna nite for that?

>>4173886
So the game was supposed to have more detailed sprites than are possible on the NES and some sort of motion blur when Mario is running? Interesting.

Mario 2 and 3 used outlines around characters to reduce the dot crawl effect seen in Mario 1.

Are you still saying that wasn't a byproduct of the video signal and was actually intended?

>>4174082

Seems like developers intended their games to look as clean as the could get them

>>4173946
Video game consoles weren't really a thing in the west outside of America. Before the video game crash Europe preferred PCs (particularly the Acorn Electron and ZX Spectrum)

>>4174004
Yes, it was.

>>4174040
The colors on composite are different too.

>>4173990
No
LCD not hurt my eye when play very longtime.I can't play game on CRT over 3 hour.
I got to use glass because CRT.

>>4174123
Speccy just in Britain, C64 was still the most popular in western Europe. The Amstrad CPC was popular in Spain and France, the Spectrum was the most popular in Britain, and the C64 was dominant in Italy, West Germany, and Scandinavia.

>>4173916
learn to READ

>>4174004

The founder of Atari worked as an employee there after he sold it.

They refused to listen to him on common sense concepts, like not forcing the Atari 2600 and 5200 to compete against each other while having no plan whatsoever to transition one gen to another. The new executives even refused to release the 7800 for two years.

>>4173886
I made this image like 2 years ago and only ever posted it a couple of times. I love you /vr/

>time and again you show them Nintendo has always liked crisp pixels and they'll never listen

>>4173896
Was this Nintendo of America?

Why are people literally trying to use block art to show that Nintendo ignored defects in display technology that they obviously knew full well about?

Accepting and working within the boundaries of your work is part of "what you intend" when you make a product.

I'm not even against playing on whatever display you want, because I don't think that matters. SMB1 even has a button at the end of every castle that everybody thought was an axe. Putting developer intentions on a pedestal when they are making screwups like that just shows how silly doing so is.

But don't try to say they were idiots who didn't give a fuck about or know about technical details of the graphics of their games. That is what you are trying to claim.

>>4173886
fuck you its fun

>>4173886
>Get a super nice looking Sony WEGA 32"
>CRT with extremely small scan lines that are hardly even there
>Picture is crisp and clean
>Genesis and SNES games look better than ever over SCART - Component
>Show /vr/
>Hur dur input lag on HDCRTs
>Test the input lag
>It's like 1-2 ms
Whatever faggots

>>4174223

How does a high def CRT cause input lag anyway?

>>4174224
Upscaling from SD to HD.
The input lag that it causes is insignificant in my own personal testing that unless you are speed running or some shit, you will never notice it.
It's not like LCD or LED TVs that is noticeable

>>4174226

You can't turn that off? I thought CRTs are capable of just displaying whatever because they aren't fixed pixel. Wouldn't upscaling be optional?

>>4173946
Too many platforms with too many shit games and no way to find out which games were good prior to purchase.

>>4174231
CRT monitors and PVMs are. Consumer ones aren't. It's why it advertises it's upscaling feature

>>4174206
>SMB1 even has a button at the end of every castle that everybody thought was an axe.

Are you being sarcastic?

>>4174010
I have an LED and a CRT.
Both are good for different types of games.
Even my laptop is LED.
Who has a fucking LCD in $CURRENT_YEAR ?

If the console has RGB output I dont see why is bad to play in a PVM

>>4174223
Not that HDCRTs can't be nice for the right stuff, but if it is a Sony HDCRT, you are looking at more around 32-48ms(2-3 frames) of delay depending on if you're feeding 480p+ or 240p/480i.

480i and 480p stuff can look pretty nice, but they really aren't that friendly towards 240p.

>>4174340
I've had 0 problems with 240p. The only problem is because I'm not using SCART with Sync
Even that problem is minor though

And 2-3 frames is hardly anything if you aren't speed running. To cry about input lag on 3 frames is just being dumb

>>4174351
I was only clarifying that it was more than just 1-2ms. And there's nothing wrong with using RGB->Component as you are.

And it's not that the TV has an issue with 240p, only that it doesn't look too hot compared to the other two.

>>4174379
The RGB -> Component without using sync causes he screen to almost do a tearing effect every so often. It's not really an issue as it doesn't happen frequently enough. If I really wanted to, I could get the sync on green cables but it's not worth it right now.

The picture looks great. Maybe if you zoom in you can find some thing, but even then I would say you're reaching. The picture is sharp and clear without scan lines. The colors pop and are extremely vivid. I finished Super Mario World 2 Yoshi's Island and it looked great. I'm currently playing Super Mario RPG and it's bright and colorful

>>4174223
How did you test the lag? SD CRT next to it and highspeed camera? 240p test suite on Dreamcast with microphone?

>>4174412
You don't need a high speed camera, you just need to take enough pictures so you just so happen to get them both on clear numbers on both screens

>>4174151
you got to use glasses because of your shitty genetics.
also,
>he didn't have a 100/120Hz scan CRT
my Philips matchline's scan is so smooth you wouldn't be able to tell apart 480i and 480p on it

>>4174394
>RGB -> Component without using sync causes he screen to almost do a tearing effect every so often
I don't follow, what exactly are you doing to go from RGB to Component without sync and still have it work. SCART if doing RGB is going to have R,G,B, and Sync to work, and any transcoder that takes that and turns it into Component is going to put sync on Luma where it's supposed to be.

The issue isn't about the colors which will look vibrant either way(especially if chroma is cranked up as it tends to be by default on consumer stuff) but rather how it handles stuff in motion. If you're fine with how it looks, that's great, but it doesn't mean that they don't have issues.

>>4174058
>more detailed sprites than are possible on the NES
How so? Looks like default Mario sprite to me.

>>4174429
On a different widescreen CRT I had before it didn't have the problem. I say it's a sync issue, because that's what it looks like. Every once in a while (It's like 15-20 secs), a line seems to shift one or two pixels over starting from the top down. It looks almost like screen tearing only it's not that bad, nor does it happen all the time.
Yoshi's island, it would only do it if I was moving and not even that often. Almost the same with Super Mario RPG, but even less. I don't know what's really causing it because nothing changed between my widescreen CRT and the WEGA that's 4:3

Even if you argue about stuff in motion (ignoring the above problem), it still looks perfect. I tried connecting it to an LG LCD screen and easily saw artifacts from upscaling, but it's not present in the WEGA. There are simply no artifacts or any signs of picture degradation in any form.

>>4174450
I wonder if it could possibly be the DRC setting you're using; Does it change at all when you go between Interlaced, Progressive and Cinemotion?

>>4173909
>not posting the original box art.

>>4174523
I have it set to Interlaced.
The other two seemed to make borders thicker for some reason and not as clear.

But... these white lines on Mario's body aren't there in the real game.
The cover image is just a recreation, OP, not necessarily the real, authentic thing you should see on your TV.
Plus, the back of the box has CRT pictures.

Just deal with the fact you were born too late and you don't have anyone in your family willing to give you an old CRT for your newly discovered "retro games" hobby.

>>4174552
Maybe the lines are meant to convey speed. OH MY GAD MIND=BLOWN

>>4174562
They are, that's the point.

>>4174319
Sorry lad but you have an LED-backlit LCD.

It's exactly the same thing except without cold cathode fluorescent tubes...

>>4174206
>But don't try to say they were idiots who didn't give a fuck about or know about technical details of the graphics of their games. That is what you are trying to claim.

No one is claiming that you retard.

>>4174590
He's the result of a dishonest marketing campaign. I have an Insignia TV and they got sued because they had LED written on the box, but it was only a backlit LCD.

>>4173916
You're an idiot.

>>4173886
>Consumer CRT
Nostalgia goggles
>Butthole Monitor with RGB
A brand new experience

>>4173886
What bothers me more than anything is that Fire Mario's sprite doesn't look like that

>>4174798

>>4174552
>The cover image is just a recreation, OP, not necessarily the real, authentic thing you should see on your TV.

Of course. But it shows the idealized form of what the game looks like is much closer to the pixel art style they have always liked. Displays of the day couldn't do them justice but this >>4174189 is always the ideal.

>>4174804
Nintendo is also using a non-standard palette on the cover

>>4173886
Just leave them to their delusions. These people rarely even play games anyway. They just keep hoarding and hoarding, trying to recreate the 'authentic' experience by buying shitty old TVs. Then they'll pop in their 'favourite' game, take a picture, post it on /vr/ and turn the console off again while they jerk eachother off in the CRT general.

Just keep in mind that they don't really belong here. They're nostalgia fans, not video game fans.

>>4175020
I've beat over ten games this past month on a crt. You have no clue what you're talking about, this isn't /v/.

>>4175020

I'd bet this is the case for a lot of posters here

>>4175105
As apposed to loading a rom in an emulator getting bored of it and playing another one? Also people who hacked their 3DS's in the homebrew general have the same problem, a lot of them admit they don't really play any of the games they pirate.

>>4175105
>>4175115
People into playing retro games are out there playing them. /vr/ is just talking about them, collecting them, hoarding roms of them, what they should look like when/if you were to play them, etc etc

>>4175115
That's the case for people who download full romsets. Same thing with people who buy game lots off of ebay (or garage sales or whatever).

It's not a problem with hardware vs emulation fags, it's about self control and choice paralysis.

>>4173886

>>4175124
That might be part of it, but also a factor is there is no longer a need to stick with a shitty game for the sake of it. As a kid if your parents blew $60 on a bad game tough shit, that's all you're getting until next Christmas so you better learn to like it. With so many options out there now if a game is bad I'm not going to suffer through it needlessly and will dump it for something better.

>>4175124
I think it's that when you have a full ROM set, there's less reason to spend your time on a game you only sort of like. When you can move on and try something completely different. But I've found lots of my favorite games that way.

I never knew about Metal Warriors because it's release was so small, but it was one of those random clicks after trying out a handful of mediocre games. My socks were knocked clean off.

>>4175138
That's why I think it's pointless to just play random roms. You might get lucky and find a hidden gem, but no, you probably won't.

>>4174825
>But it shows the idealized form of what the game looks like is much closer to the pixel art style they have always liked.
Source? Is there any interview where they discuss this?

By the way you're always wrong. You keep insisting that devs always intended for games to look pixelated, almost as if devs hated SD screens and always meant to make the games to be displayed on HD screens.
You're actually as bad and as exaggerated as the people who bitch about other people playing upscaled games.
The thing is, do whatever you want. You want to play on HD? Play on HD. You want to play on an old CRT TV? Play on an old CRT TV. As long as you're not bothering anyone else, it should be fine.

The fact sprites were made out of pixels wasn't a secret, it wasn't something that people started noticing when they started playing games upscaled to HD. In Mario Paint you could make your own pixelart, pic related.
The way "sharp pixels" look wasn't a secret. However, yes, sorry, but they were meant to be displayed on SD screens. Not because devs hated HD or anything, but because that's the screens everyone used back then, simple as that.
Don't jump at me though! If you want to play on HD, please do so! I don't mind.

>>4175158
>>4175158
That's exactly why I think it is great. You get to try all those other games, and go back to ones that might have potential. Then one of those times you hit a gem and it's amazing.

>>4175174
The problem is there really is no such thing as a "hidden" gem these days. By now enough people have played games that word of mouth has let the masses know which ones are good and which ones to avoid. Unless you are brand new to gaming or have been living under a rock it's pretty hard to not know Jekyll and Hyde sucks but Live-A-Live is worth seeking out. That's just common knowledge.

>>4175170
>Source?
The box art is one, the fact that their own game Super Mario Maker has sharp pixels (not a crt filter) is another, the use of pixel art for Amiibos and these old calendars.

And no, I didn't say the devs intended the games to look pixelated. They knew the limits of the display technology. But they knew that with the right display technology where you could see the image undistorted is how the game would look it's best.

I am right. They have shown this over and over again. Any time they show 8-bit Mario, he looks clean and crisp like the guy on the box cover. Not like a bunch of pixels blurred by CRT distortion. They never do that.

>>4175187
That only works if you assume the general consensus on every game is going to be in line with your tastes.

>>4175190
No, I didn't ask for your own opinions, I asked for source. You don't have one. Devs never stated their stance on pixel graphics. In fact, probably many devs have different opinions, some might like it, some might not.
>Box art
Again, it's not a real screenshot of the game, and again, it wasn't a secret that sprites were made out of pixels. Look at the Mario Paint screenshot I posted. People back then knew how sprites were drawn, anon. It doesn't mean they prefer the to look like that on the game screen. Well, they don't even look THAT blocky even on HD screens, even HD screens have small nuances that make the pixels not be as sharp as they can be (like on pen and paper).
>how the game would look it's best.
Highly subjective, also a lot of devs also used CRT pictures for booklets and stuff, but that doesn't mean they "prefer" SD or that they "hate" HD or viceversa.
>I am right
You, my friend, are not.
>Mario Maker
Not a retro game
>calendar
Not even real sprites, these are illustrations made by someone at Nintendo Power, trying to imitate the actual pixelart from the games.

Remember anon: The fact people know how sprites and pixels work, doesn't mean that there's only one legit way to enjoy video games, or that devs decidedly prefer HD screens for their old games.

When you can finally comprehend this, then maybe you will stop forcing your own tastes and subjective opinions as if they were facts, or backed up by the devs themselves.

Remember, I'm completely fine with you preferring HD displays. Go and enjoy the fuck out of it anon. Just don't try to convince others that your subjective way of enjoying games is the best, or that devs intended people to play on HD screens in 1985.

>. Any time they show 8-bit Mario, he looks clean and crisp like the guy on the box cover.
Bingo anon, you figured out we're in 2017 and people use HD screens now.
Soon enough you will be seeing this same discussion between 720/1080 VS 4K.

Here's a quote from Miyamoto in an interview. They made these game with CRTs in mind.

"When I see this [Super Mario Bros.] so clearly, it's a little embarrassing," Miyamoto tells Earthbound designer Shigesato Itoi. "Back then, with tube televisions, it was a little blurrier and the images weren't quite so sharp. The places where we tried to fudge it a bit really stand out!"

>>4175245
DELETE THIS

>>4174040
Most people I knew back in the mid-90s still used the RF output on their SNESes. So maybe they used composite because TVs that accepted other types of input weren't as widespread in the 80s.

>>4175245
LCDFAGS BTFO

>>4175206
>Not a retro game
Of course, that's the point. It's a new game using retro game assets and showing them as clear pixels. Made by Nintendo.

>Highly subjective
Of course, I'm just saying that's how Nintendo has always shown they prefer it.

>these are illustrations made by someone at Nintendo Power, trying to imitate the actual pixelart from the games.

Exactly

>>4175381
You still don't understand that the fact sprites are made out of pixels, doesn't meant all devs always meant their games to be displayed on HD (resolutions that weren't even used back then).
>It's a new game using retro game assets and showing them as clear pixels. Made by Nintendo.
Yes. In 2017. That's fine. They also released the NES and SNES midi with HDMI. They just figure most people don't keep a CRT around, it's common sense.
>that's how Nintendo has always shown they prefer it.
Not really. Also "Nintendo" isn't one person.
>Exactly
So? "sharper" just means "bigger resolution". As you can see, Mario Paint also showed how actual sprite zoomed in looked like. It doesn't mean they were meant to look like that in-game by the developers. They were most likely using 21" or smaller CRTs, at 240p, that's not even close to HD.
Also: >>4175245
The interview is real by the way
http://kotaku.com/5661562/super-mario-bros-makes-its-creator-embarrassed
It's funny how journos try to take the focus on "Shiggy is embarrassed", instead of the fact he was talking about HD screens though.

You can play retro games upscaled to 8K if you want. It's fine. But it's not the way devs intended.

>>4175396
>It doesn't mean they were meant to look like that in-game by the developers.
Which is why I said exactly that.>>4175190

>But it's not the way devs intended.
When Nintendo releases their own games in HD, that is how they intend them to look. Mario Maker and their ports don't have CRT filters for a reason.

I have said repeatedly that they obviously knew that technology of the day couldn't display the pixels cleanly. But that doesn't mean it wasn't the ideal they were going for. Everything points in the direction that it was.

Also Nintendo is a corporation so legally it kind of is a person. And it likes pixel art.

>>4175174

Hey, Bad Street Brawler, aka Bop'n'Rumble. (It was a semi-sequel to a silly wrestling game called Bop'n'Wrestle.) That game was great.

>>4175580
I totally agree! Glad to see someone else who's played it.

>>4175976

Yeah, I've played all kinds of stuff. My dad and I ran a major C64 pirate BBS in central California back in the 80s, so I must have played a ludicrous number of c64 games.

We actually bought Bop'n'Wrestle. I never saw a copy of Bop'n'Rumble for sale locally, though. I'd like to think it was because they sold out quickly, but I have no idea.

>>4173886
This thread got so MANY replies.
/crt/ faggots really are the worst.
Stick to Trinitrons at least.

>>4174804
why is he throwing a fireball at the wall

>>4176294
His final raging act of desperation before his body incinerates and melts in the bubbling hot lava below

>>4175481
>Mario Maker and their ports don't have CRT filters for a reason.
Woah woah wait wait, CRT filter? Who was talking about that?
It's 2017, of curse Nintendo is going to release games in HD at this point, dummy.
Also, while generally CRT = SD, it's not a golden rule. There are HD CRTs, and there are SD LCDs. It's all about the resolution, actually.
>But that doesn't mean it wasn't the ideal they were going for.
This is just you being hopeful that somehow, all devs in the past were working for one guy who in 2017 would be shitposting on 4chan about how old games should ideally look.
Again soon enough you will be seeing this same discussiong between 720/1080 VS 4K/8K.

>And it likes pixel art.
See? you're still not really getting it. It has nothing to do with liking or not.

CRTfags can be obnoxious sometimes, but you and your "HD is the only legit ways devs actually intended" baiting (that has been going to a long time now) is way worse.

>>4176620
>"HD is the only legit ways devs actually intended" baiting

It's funny how you go on that rant, finish up with saying I obviously don't understand, then you put what you think I am saying in quotation marks and its not even close.

>>4176641
>its not even close
Yes it's close enough, you've said numerous times that Nintendo always intended sprites to be displayed on bigger resolutions, even though someone posted a Miyamoto interview where he says the contrary. I mean, it wasn't even necessary to read Miyamoto on the subject. It's pretty obvious developers in the 80s weren't working with 720/1080p in mind.
>but they prefer it!
Some might, some might not, for example Shiggy doesn't
>but they release games in HD now!
Yes, it's 2017.

Just admit you're not any better than the CRT loyalists who chase down all the people playing on emulators at the wrong aspect ratio, etc. Probably your reaction and the reason you make these threads is in response to being insulted by that kind of guys.

>>4176643

You just have a fetish for shitty resolutions and outdated analog signals

>>4175020
Just leave them to their delusions. These people rarely even play games anyway. They just keep downloading and downloading, trying to recreate the 'authentic' experience by using shitty scanline filters. Then they'll load their 'favourite' rom, take a picture, post it on /vg/ and close the emulator again while they jerk each other off in the emulator general. Just keep in mind that they don't really belong here. They're piracy fans, not video game fans.

>>4176643
You're still way off, but whatever. And no I don't actually care how anyone else plays their games.

>>4174082
Oh. OH. Thanks for teaching me something neat!

>>4174804
there's pvm scanlines right on the cover. truly the intentional way to play

>>4176795
No, they are not. They are cinetic lines to emphatize the movement of mario, they have nothing to do with scanlines

>>4176850
which is why they are on every other line of pixels. wrong again, pvm is the only way to enjoy these games.

>>4175481
The NES mini has a CRT filter.

>>4176852
Gross

>>4176868
Ur mom

What about using the PC-10 color palette for RGB?

>>4176850
they clearly have a shadow mask vertically going through said cinetic lines

>>4176723
Where did I express my own taste in any form? I didn't.
Maybe I actually like playing old games upscaled on HD, doesn't mean it's the way devs intended back in the 80s.
>>4176779
Yeah we never agreed, I've discussed with you before. It seems we're in completely different frequencies. Maybe you're trying to express something else, but as far as I can tell, you still think that all devs always intended pixels to look like they do on HD screens, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case, at least not with all devs.

I think it's self-evident that the intent of the developers was not even close to relevant.
The machines couldn't make anything other THAN sharp blocky pixels.
Limitation negates intent.
CRTs being blurry was a godsend for them, they could get something that looked cartoony without actually having the hardware means to do so.

>>4173906
Can't put a CRT filter on a fucking toy! Ya got us! ',;^)

>>4174206
>SMB1 even has a button at the end of every castle that everybody thought was an axe.
lolwat?
https://www.mariowiki.com/Axe

>>4173906
>made decades later by people who had nothing to do with the original game

>>4173912
I feel like I'm looking at the argument of a child.

>>4177692

>>Official Nintendo product based on the original game
>> Has nothing to do with the original game

Ok, got it

>>4174431
It's like 2x resolution and has twice as many colours

I've never understood the point of these threads.
Are people saying that Nintendo never made their games to be played on a regular CRT or people saying that geometrically sharp sprites never existed until recently?

>>4177775
No one is really sure what they're saying. These threads got big when the resident trolls figured out that it was really good bait. What they haven't been around long enough to figure out yet is that they're really only arguing with other trolls.

If you really believe that Nintendo, or anyone else, was writing software for a consumer base all running PVM/BVMs you're welcome to think so. You're a fucking loon, but you're welcome to believe it. As for me, I think that Nintendo was probably focused on regular folks who weren't running setups costing upwards of ten grand when they were new and relevant. Buy system, hook it up to the living room television with the included connector, play some games. You know, like everyone actually did back in the day.

>>4177793
That's the feeling I was getting from this. I had always figured that the "playing authentically/the way they were meant to be played" was more about playing not hooking a console up to, like, a HDTV, but I remember the dumb "Venonat evolved into Butterfree originally" threads where people tried to present this idea that devs had no idea how anything played on the consumer end of things and not the computers they used to program everything on.

>>4177802
>this idea that devs had no idea how anything played on the consumer end of things and not the computers they used to program everything on.
Now ask yourself if this even remotely makes any sense whatsoever. Does this bullshit even pass the sniff test? And then remember that the people trying to convince you of this are the ones who insist that old video game systems are basically unplayable unless hooked up to a display originally meant for studio production.

If you haven't realized it by now, absolutely none of these people are even remotely old enough to have been around during all this history they insist on arguing about. If they were, they'd realize how absurd some of these arguments are. Take Atari, hook it up to the family TV with the pitchfork connector, proceed to suck at River Raid. That was reality.

>>4177813
Well, absolutely. I was more saying that this strange idea of "devs don't know what their games look like on the consumer end" thing has cropped up in vastly different threads, so it's hard to know if that's a legitimate thing that people believe (even if it's absolutely stupid; I honestly believe that a huge chunk of Pokemon fans believe that every single game and Pokemon were designed in the 90s) or just a wide-spread troll.

>>4177826
Well, of course. No one at Nintendo actually owned a television. Nor did any of their customers. How could anyone be expected to know what the software looked like on the average consumer's setup?

>so it's hard to know if that's a legitimate thing that people believe
Like literally everything else that's ever been posted on 4chan, it started off as a joke. And like literally everything else, it eventually became srs bsns among the current wave of newfags who weren't in on the joke. That said, most of it really is just stale trolling, at least for the time being. Much like the purple/blue Mario sky threads. Those are mostly just "le ironic" newfriends trying too hard to fit in with what they think is Futaba board culture, but some of them are vehemently convinced that one or the other is objectively correct and will argue it to no end.

>>4177834
What's THIS??

DQ Dev? Playing Mother 2 at home? ON A CONSUMER CRT???

OH FATHER WHY HAST THOU FORSAKEN MEEEEE

>>4177851
How can you even be considered a game dev if you don't even play the games the way they were meant to be played?

Stop acting like the publishers and/or developers always know what's best. Nintendo now wants you to buy super mario bros again on the wii u and play it on the gamepad with 10 frames of lag and fucked up brightness and worse sounding music, does that mean it's the ideal way to play?

>>4177851
>ON A CONSUMER CRT???
The Profeel line evolved into the PVM line, although it was sold to consumers too as a "component" television and RGB monitor system

The worst part about this whole argument? The devs are clearly pretty agnostic about it. Like, in the interview here, (>>4175245) he suggests that he was at least aware that people were playing on CRTs, but he also doesn't seem super concerned that people are playing these games in HD now.

Because at the end of the day, stuff like color palette and framerate are far more important than whether or not you're playing on a CRT.

>>4173886
>are not necessary for an authentic experience
Well since no one played them on non-CRTs during the era, yeah they kind of definitely are.

No one's saying you have to use them, but it's not the same authentic experience.

Personally, I take authentic with a grain of salt. I like my NTSC shaders but I won't complain if there's no fringe artifacts flickering on a still shot. Should be there, but if it's not, no biggie. I don't need literal per pixel simulation. If it was convenient and easy to get going I'd do it but for the most part at some point you need to just say play the fucking game already.

>>4178279
How do i configure my gambatte to look like this on retroarch?

>>4173930
Music on vinyl isn't better than digital. Whereas CRTs have solid pros against LCD displays in color/black level/pixel geometry, responsiveness, and latency.

CRTs do however lack efficiency per square inch generally, smaller maximum screen size, and have geometry issues. Also on there depending on the age and build quality, phosphors can have longer responsiveness than desired or 'dead pixels' - albeit that last one is rarer. Over time they can lose their black level as the screen fades. Glass may (but not always or usually all that often) have green tint from lead or bubbles. They're heavy as fuck, a pain to calibrate properly. Resolution is a so/so issue - as lower resolution CRT TVs are better looking than higher resolution LCDs for low resolution games. Higher resolution CRTs monitors are capable of displaying them well too as well but also can match effectively match dpi/resolution of LCDs outside of 4K and up which is fairly recent transition for LCDs.

That is to say, they had pros and cons just as the opposite of all these things are the pros and cons

>>4173939
Literally no.

>>4178292
It's been forever since I've set it up and I'm not sure specifically if I have the same setup now anywhere but more or less what I have is
Shader -
Retroarch/shaders/handheld/- handheld backup/dmg-shader/dmg-shader-6x.cgp
and 3x scale.
There should be a border the shader sets I believe it comes with it. You can also muck with the pallette.png to change it around.

>>4178292
Yeah my current shader/config is modified so it's zoomed in more like this and greyscaled for color GBAesque.

>>4178312

>>4178292
Also I modified the shader to remove the LCD blur of the gameboy. Less authentic but er... fuck authenticity when your eyes are bleeding. It looked like ass then and it looks like ass now with ghosting. It's technically a different experience playing that way since the screen is clear instead of a bunch of mud but I'm okay with that.

>>4178312
>>4178313
Emulation of the GBC's screen has gotten a lot better. Looks mint.

>>4178312
>>4178313
What shader?

>>4177715
>Official product from a company 3 decades later => The same team behind the genesis and creation of the product intended it this way
Literal autism

>>4177851
Those are some sexy feet desu

>>4178335
except that it's completely lacking the subpixels

>>4179172
Said better, not perfect.

>>4174082
I'm not so sure about that, Anon. The sprites are VERY different, and unless there's articles out there saying that, I'm calling that filthy head canon.
Reason being, that's entirely different art direction from the first game. Animations in the second game were smoother and all, but that's expected. Note not everything else was outlined in black and all of a sudden everything is and it all looks a lot more cartoony for it. That could be part of it, but lets face it, Mario 2 and 3 had entirely different art direction and were all on the same console.

>>4173886
WOW. CRT monitor fags BTFO. It really is a scam/meme!

>>4179224

>Mmm I love to eat worms!

>>4179265
Who are you quoting?

>>4179272

OP offered up a big old bucket of bait, and that anon seems to think it's fine dining.

>>4177083
>Maybe you're trying to express something else, but as far as I can tell, you still think that all devs always intended pixels to look like they do on HD screens

I'm partly expressing my own thoughts on the matter. Growing up I always thought CRTs looked terrible and I dreamt of a time when screens would display them well. I thought early on that mine was just shit and better tube tvs would look good, but they never did. So even though HD wasn't around, I saw the the games and imagined how they could look like. And I dreamt that some day those screens would exist.

It's not that I think developers didn't know the kinds of screens they were developing for, it's that I think at least some of them also felt as I did. And when I see things like Nintendo's use of pixel art I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on that.

But also I take this all with a huge grain of salt and come at it with tounge firmly planted in cheek. Though I'm sure of myself, I don't really care and think this whole thing is silly. When I made the OP image I picked the worst screenshot of Mario I could find on purpose.

Mostly I think it's funny that someone saved it, I only ever posted a couple of times. And how big this thread is all on it's own.

dem shaapu pikkuserusu

>thinking developers intended you to play their game in one way or another

>>4179347
I can understand that. I don't think a lot of people thought CRTs looked shitty back then, I mean of course there's bad and good ones, but when people were amazed by graphics on arcades, they were looking at CRTs.
I know where you come from about the sharp pixels. In that case you should try games on VGA, on PC monitor. I remember as a kid I had both, consoles on TV, and PC. I noticed PC had a sharper, cleaner image, but that didn't necessarily meant better to me.
I think cleaner displays, like VGA, can be good if you're a few inches away from the screen, as you would play on PC, but if you're sitting from a few feet, like on a couch or a bed, I thought regular consumer CRT did the trick better, especially with things like dithering, it always worked better on composhit than on VGA.

>>4179283
Not OP, but was originally my bait. Glad so many liked it!

>>4179369
I am picky and I know I'm weird about thinking they look shitty. I liked sweet arcade graphics, just not that certain glare CRTs have. I certainly did think monitors looked better, it's part of why I got into emulation in the first place, but they were still very glarey for a long time. What I use now is sort of a hybrid and been very happy with it.

I legit don't care what other people do, my best friend has a big CRT set up.

>>4179389
What controller is that?

>>4179379

>crafts a mean bait
>likes Ecco the Dolphin

You're a pretty cool guy, anon.

>>4179403
Madcatz brawlpad with the goofy wrestlers sanded off.

>>4179410
<3

>>4173929
that kind of language is unacceptable on /vr/.

>>4174040
I defend it in every single RGB-oriented thread. You can play almost every console ever in RGB, leave the NES/FC alone.

>>4179638
Why not play it with the PC-10 color palette?

>>4179641
That's legit, and when I emulate I do use the PC-10 or other 'Nintendo-sanctioned' palettes. I'm not really down with the NES RGB kits though. If I had a PC-10 PPU I didn't need to gut a PC-10 for, I'd mod my AV Famicom, but I'm not going to fake it when I could just emulate. I usually play an unmodded Famicom on a 1980s consumer Trinitron over RF

>>4174040
The NES was made for composite, it doesn't have RGB and looks like shit if you mod it for RGB without readjusting the colors completely

>>4179687
RGB looks better though...

>>4179770

Not when it mangles the colors like his image shows it doing.

>>4179770
With a PC-10 PPU, not a NES

>>4179648
>>4179687
Why hasn't anyone made a palette that mimics the composite/RF output?

>>4179782
But the colors look better.

>>4179819

Sure, and MongoDB is webscale.

what the hell is a CRT

>>4179828
Autism is insisting that's the only thing that looks good.

>>4180110
some sort of microwave i think

>>4179137
see >>4178305
But you'll need to play around with it to get it to look like that.

>>4180110
Childmind Repulsion Technology

>>4180180

He was both told and shown how converting an NES to RGB fucks it up and his only response is to rock back and forth and go "but the colors look better" over and over like a weirdo.
Even though the chart shows shit like two shades of grey being turned into black, for fuck's sake.

>>4179795
FirebRandX has, but his palettes are largely memes. You simply can't 'copy' the composite palette, it will always be wrong. There isn't a 'defined' palette, the NES just sends arbitrary color info to your TV, which decides on how to display it. Every TV will always look different. I'm sure someone else can explain it better than I.

>>4180693
>You simply can't 'copy' the composite palette
how so? If you can make it look the same on RGB than it should work

>>4180815
>These bits are converted to colour, the colours are analog and do not convert to a consistent RGB palette.
http://nesdev.com/NinTech.txt

You just can't do it, you can approximate, as FireBrandX and others attempt to do, but it will never be 'correct'. For instance, the background color in Super Mario Bros. is outside the standard RGB range, that's why so many composite video capture devices make it that insanely purple hue. The capture card can't actually handle the real color signal, it's just throwing out off important color info. I'm not the best guy to explain this stuff, it really boils down to "The NES palette cannot be defined in RGB".

>>4180835
Why is it only the NES that has this problem?

>>4180889
It's not, most 2nd gen consoles do too, they simply weren't designed for RGB and instead designed for NTSC composite/RF exclusively. It's a little strange that the NES/FC was designed that way, since the Master System and other contemporary(ish) machines have RGB capable PPUs, but I'm sure there was some design/cost reason at the time.

>>4173909
I've always loved this particular Mario picture, I had it on my pencil case back in the 90s

>>4177851
The character graphics were created by using a special graphics machine ("Character Generator Computer Aided Design") that generated a collection of all the graphical shapes used in the game. Shapes in the collection were assigned numbers that the game's code uses to access in real time, and are combined to form complete images on the screen in real time.

Not sure what kind of tubes are or even the conection used but people need to understand back in the 80's LCDs or even Flat CRTs were existent, the technology for higher resolutions was not even born. They developed all game using CRT technology, the "Developers intended meme" needs to end, people only played games for fun , there werent any crasy fuck trying to count the pixels or even make the picture sharper back at the day. Even the devs at home played using normal tubes. Just let it go

>>4181697
correction NOT EXISTENT

>>4174224
>>4174231

Standard definition sets are designed to accept an NTSC signal, and will simply feed said signal to the electron gun, it's only ever going to receive 480i so no processing is required.

All EDTV & HDTV sets accept a variety of different signals which have to be processed before feeding to the electron gun. While you don't have the scaling issues with HD CRTs like you do with LCDs (since they can scan at low res), there is lag introduced by the video processor.

On the upside, most HDCRT displays can do 240p reasonably well; but even then a 720p plasma with a 240p mode will almost always look better.

>>4175158
But that thrill of discovering Super Conflict Mideast during a "what's this game like"-athon, though

>>4174223
Righto dickhead.

>>4173886

>>4181830
How the fuck can he play on that shit?

It's foul

>>4173886
The developer intended you to have fun.

>>4183021
This, but I usually prefer playing on a CRT using Composite.
RGB/YPbPr looks great on most other consoles but the NES/Famicom is an exception to me because the colors look wrong in RGB.