/vr/ - Retro Games

I agree

Thats why quake 1 is better

>>4162551
Indeed indeed

>>4162545
i agree

this game just feels so boring and generic compared to quake 1

>>4162545
man what ever happened to proteus? His Daikatana playthrough was hilarious. must've been ten years ago

>>4162545
it's almost TOO perfect, seeing the games that romero and carmack made after they split

Without Carmack, Romero shat out Daikatana. Without Romero, Carmack shat out Quake 2.

Quake 2 is still better than most modern shooters though.

>>4162545
I think Quake 2 is okay, but its definitely not as cool as Doom or Quake 1.

Quake 1 is the only good Quake game. 2 is absolutely laughable in terms of levels, enemies and weapons. 3 is a joke compared to Unreal Tournament. I haven't even played 4. I'm not going to play the new one either.

>>4162916
Harsh words but it's true.

That must be why the Quake 2 mod scene sucks so bad as well.

Q2 multiplayer scene was great. GXMod, Instagib, Action Q2, Jump maps etc. Best Railgun in the series too.

If anything it's underappreciated. I wish we got more q2 instead of q3 rehash over and over.

>>4162545
it was pretty good for 1997
colored lighting was a pretty big deal. Decent game. At least they didn't just copy quake 1 enemies and the idea of trying to accomplish 1 large objective was pretty cool.

Some of the secret areas are awesome, I personally think the level design was well done. You never really get lost, lots of dynamic environmental stuff, things exploding, trains, moving objects smashing things open, etc.

If you like techbase, its pure gold.

>>4162545
>>4162794
>>4162813
>>4162831

Actually I didnt find it boring at all. Alot of the environments were samey but the architecture was pretty good and interesting at times (and occasionally you'd have an area that was very much Not like the others, and it was refreshing enough to add to that - places with circuitry and blue lasers, etc). I like crawling around in vents and stuff for games, so there was plenty of that and little diversions here and there.

The monsters were too accurate with their attacks but that justified dropping heavy firepower on them. You didn't want some shotgun grunt pumping like 3-4 shells into you, it wasn't exactly deadly but it was pretty damn annoying and would destroy the pretty armor you were building up with shards.

Quake 2 didn't have locational damage but it did have sneak attack damage, anybody you shot who didn't know you was there would take double damage on the first hit.

Despite the texture quality the Art Style still holds up well today. Gritty industrial transhumanism similar to Half Life 2 except not as elegant or biological.

>>4163121
Yeah but I dont play multiplayer. I played Q2 multi for awhile until the bots got thick.

It had some rather large DM maps that I enjoyed skulking around in. My favorites were Lost Hallways, Warehouse, and Tokay's Towers because I could hide and gank people in those and give them the runaround.

These kind of predatory tactics aren't what deathmatch is usually about though, so there aren't many maps like these.

> it is my specialty and it is the way I play, and that will never change - so I dont like small DM maps for any game

>>4162916

Quake 4 wasn't available to buy anywhere for almost a decade, which should tell you something

>>4163128
>>4163262

Another thing I loved was playing through the SP maps in DM. Almost ALL of the single player campaign maps were pure gold as far as I was concerned.

Some entrance or exit to the level that doesn't have a loop back?

Usually it had either a teleporter or thats where the cell-chewing weapons were, if somebody was camping it anybody who died going back there deserved it, and that camper probably wasn't scoring many frags anyway.

Single player maps felt the most organic when it came to deathmatch, it looked like you was in some place that actually served a purpose (specifically because they often didnt have loopbacks).

I enjoyed the fuck out of anti-fragging people in the mines with that big laser. You're going for the rocket launcher huh? you bastard. Im going to cut you in half and im not even going to get a frag for it.
> oh wait im sorry, we're mining here today, you didnt get the memo

I see someone being crafty trying to get around it, so I pop a few grenades in there, then they get cut up trying to dodge that. I win anyway.

>>4163279
Actually I love the fuck out of anti-fragging people. Instead of me gaining a frag... everybody else just gained one with respect to you.

Blast your ass out into the lava, or press the button and some heavy thing crushes you, or knock you off the cliff and you dont land in the water.

Things like that laser or the frag pipe are just awesome, its literally there to kill people there's nothing crafty about it.
> mfw dude in the pipe and the doors shut, he sees me through the glass waving

The sickening thing is modern games have actually taken this into account and will give a frag to the person who caused someone else to get suicided. This is wrong, even though someone else is responsible for your death, the manner in which they killed you is such a humiliation that everyone else should get a frag instead of just the guy who killed you (thus, you lose one)

>>4162545
> OP wants to deport this
> is not satisfied with the chaingun, rocket launcher, railgun, bfg, hyperblaster, or super shotgun.

>>4162916
quake 2 has good levels they are better than half lifes which took the same direction it did.

>>4162964
quake 2 has some good mods
http://www.moddb.com/mods/dawn-of-darkness1

and weapons of destruction is the best deathmatch mod I ever played.

Does anyone know where I can get a good quality version of the quad damage firing sound effect?

I've found a few downloads but they all have tons of hissing and they aren't clean at all. Is that just what the original sounds file sounds like or all of these just shitty rips?

The singleplayer might've been shit and brown, but the DM and modding was some of the most fun I've ever had with a game. Q2 was a golden age of mods.

>Action Quake 2
>Rocket Arena 2
>ChaosDM
>Weapons Factory
>Qpong
>Jailbreak
>Threewave CTF / LMCTF
>Airquake 2
>Catch the Chicken
>No Item Quake

All incredible fun, with tons of creative ideas getting thrown around left and right. Shit, someone ought to start up a good old /vr/ Q2 server.

>>4163975
You can extract it from the sound directories of the pak files. It's should be stored in wav format.
You'll need to use some pak editor program to extract it.

>>4163975
extacted from q2: pickup, fade and fire

http://vocaroo.com/i/s09g9RtD2krF
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Sd8CXqhUup
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1B1CFfPPdba

the vocaroo preview is garbage but if you download the WAV it should be the same as original

>>4165220
Maybe its just my imagination, but these sound cleaner than the ones I extracted earlier today.

>>4165269
what did you extract it with?

for >>4165220 I just opened pak0.pak with Wally and exported the 3 wav files. then uploaded the files.

>>4162545
This game is shit. Quake 1 is better in every conceivable way, and this is coming from someone that played 1 after 2. Q1 actually had a cool universe and lore, and the art design had a scummy, rusty, dirty, medieval feel that no other shooter since has captured. With Q2, they ditched that vibe and dived right into generic space marine territory. What a fucking waste. The guns got it the worst -- compare the two Q1 shotguns to the Q2 shotguns, who the fuck designed those ugly masses of shit? Gibs weren't nearly as satisfying either.

Had they stuck with the "guns and castles" theme, Quake could have turned into an awesome series. Instead, it turned into one good SP shooter and one good arena shooter, with every other entry being dirt -- especially the abomination known as Quake 4.

>>4165860
>Q1 actually had a cool universe and lore
you literally jump through random, unconnected levels with only some hastily thought out excuse for a plot tacked on. there was no continuity or coherency between the potato mash of styles in Q1.

>With Q2, they ditched that vibe and dived right into generic space marine territory
name 10 3D space marine FPS games released before Q2

>compare the two Q1 shotguns to the Q2 shotguns
Q2's are better, just for the fact that Q2's standard Shotgun continues to be actually useful after you get the Super Shotgun. unlike in Q1 where it becomes useless once you get the SS

>Quake 4
Q4 wasn't bad because of its theme

>>4165860
Q2 weapons were more like copies of Doom weapons, except the machinegun was like doom's chaingun, and the q2chaingun was a +1 to it.

I also played Q1 after I played Q2 just because I kinda forgot about Q1 existing, found it on an ftp server and grabbed it.

(so, I remember playing quake 1 for the longest time without any of the cd music whatsoever, I didnt experience the quake 1 music until last year, I kid you not... I wasn't aware that it was on the disk as pure cd audio)

I loved Q2 more than 1 however because the graphics were better, textures often seemed to be higher res, and the particles were abit finer. This criticism being levied about a game which was basically only 1 year older than its predecessor.

Im all into the sci-fi genre, back then at least, and Q2's art style and design choices still get a thumbs up with me till this day.

Q1 was just... different thats all. The grimdark atmosphere? Well actually I think Doom should have had an even more grim atmosphere than it did, many of the textures were just too flatly shaded and the palette didnt cater to really dark colors all that well (a few shades of brown is what it narrowed down to). Quake's art direction was an improvement over Doom.

The problem with Both of these games is despite their 3d demonstrator value they didn't invest much in Sprite Based special effects.

Quake 2's explosions SUCK. And the sound effects for them were rather flat and uninteresting too. Q1 did a much better job by using the sprite, and the gutsy sound effect for it (however they should have had alternate explosion sprite styles, such as for the vore firepod, and anything that explodes big like a large canister).

> Quake 1 did fuck up on its explosion particles. In mimicing shrapnel they should start out high speed then slow down, and disappear. Instead for some reason explosion sparks accelerate as they fly away.

Both games fucked up MAJOR by not having Sprite Based muzzle flashes on their weapons.

>>4165875
>>4165879

Quake 2's powerups were totally out of place for the game. None of the strogg use Quad damage or Invulnerability powerup against you. And neither appear to be a technological device either.

I'll also say that the Shotgun in quake 2 is a sore bit of contention as people have mentioned. Fact is this is like hundreds of years in the future and you have a drum fed shotgun that still needs to be pumped. And its not because of a variety of ammo types either. The spread may be reasonable since this thing obviously has a very short barrel (im guessing 8 inch SBS).

But seriously it needs to be a semi auto shotgun, firing about as fast as Q1's double barrel. And if they gave it a narrow spread with a damage dropoff due to range it would be just about balanced.

But you are sorta wrong about the quake 1 shotgun, just to be autistic, I will say that thing is pretty much a sniper rifle. And with quad active it was still more useful in general than the basic nailgun. Also try killing scrags with the double barrel at a distance and tell me how many shells you use, it only takes 4-5 with the normal shotgun except at extreme range.

For a short while the Q2 shotgun is useful after the SSG but as soon as you get the chaingun or rocket launcher it might as well be discarded.

>>4165860
There has not to this day been a remake of Quake 1. Quake 2 has instead had 2 remakes (quake 4 and that quake wars thing).

All they wouldve had to do for a sequel is expand the plot deeper into cthulhu mythos. The enemy could even be just an agent or servitor of the outer gods, doesnt even have to be something like Nyarlathotep but like some cosmic cult from the dreamlands that serves it.

>>4165875
>you literally jump through random, unconnected levels with only some hastily thought out excuse for a plot tacked on. there was no continuity or coherency between the potato mash of styles in Q1.
The story was purposefully cryptic, that's what made it interesting. It had imagination. It also had some Lovecraftian elements that all blended together well. Even the short messages that displayed after getting each rune were far more interesting than any plot element in Q2.

>name 10 3D space marine FPS games released before Q2
"3D" has literally nothing to do with whether or not the game's setting was generic, and neither does it being an FPS. "Space marines" is a genre as old as fucking time, it was generic when the game came out and it's generic now. Games like DOOM and Marathon did that shit ages beforehand, anyway.

>Q2's are better, just for the fact that Q2's standard Shotgun continues to be actually useful after you get the Super Shotgun. unlike in Q1 where it becomes useless once you get the SS
Have you even played these games, or did you just do a single run of Q1 on easy? The SS is actually less useful than the regular shotty, especially on nightmare, because it consumes more ammo and has a wider pellet spread, meaning it does less damage at a distance, making the shotgun the best weapon for conserving ammo.

>Q4 wasn't bad because of its theme
Q4 was bad for a lot of reasons.

>>4162545
the only thing quake 2 is good for is half life.

>>4165875
> unlike in Q1 where it becomes useless once you get the SS

>>4162916
UT is for people who are shit at Quake.

I've never liked Quake 2

>>4165916
actually he's right

the double barrel can pretty much be ignored, most of the time when you're in trouble youll go to the nailguns or thunderbolt if you have it

the double barrel has a higher damage output than the regular shotty, but it still just isnt enough - it takes a whopping 4 blasts to put down just one ogre, and the larger number of pellets doesn't seem to amplify painstate much...

> blasting away at a fiend with the SS is just absurd, it doesnt feel like using a breech fed double barrel shotgun at all, its like Ash continuously firing his shotgun in army of the dead without reloading...
> and it doesnt do the weapon justice either because it feels like it should do more damage, which makes it really lackluster
> they must be firing .410 gauge shotgun shells because that shit is weak

shotgun(s) are a weapon that you use when you're not being attacked, its a scouting weapon, its cheap ammo you find everywhere that you can plink at critters with or use with a Quad so you dont use up other stuff (since a quad double barrel is pretty worthwhile). Dont forget about that axe either.

>>4165930
UT takes massive fucking skill, especially the original. You cant rocket jump and the hammer is too impractical for using it actively.

It was alot easier to die in UT than any game of its era, so you need to have damn good reflexes and accuracy or your ass was toast. Especially with that Flak Cannon monstrosity.
> but really, the AMSD, Pulse Rifle, and Sniper Rifle were all cheap, easy to access, and annoyingly fast killing machines.
> what about a volley of grenades from the 8ball? bouncing all down the corridor you're running into

>>4165891
>Fact is this is like hundreds of years in the future and you have a drum fed shotgun that still needs to be pumped.
could be a reliability or ease of maintenance thing. or could be that the pump action feels more bad-ass

>But seriously it needs to be a semi auto shotgun, firing about as fast as Q1's double barrel. And if they gave it a narrow spread with a damage dropoff due to range it would be just about balanced.
it's fine as it is. it's a classic shotgun that bursts damage with moderate pauses. fast firing semi-auto would make it feel less like a shotgun. if it fired faster than it does, it would make the machinegun that much useless.

>For a short while the Q2 shotgun is useful after the SSG but as soon as you get the chaingun or rocket launcher it might as well be discarded.
chaingun uses up ammo too fast
rocket launcher has very slow ammo, and you obviously cannot use it in close quarters because of splash damage
super shotgun is perfect for slamming major damage from up close. there's a lot of tight corners in Q2 where this is suitable

>>4165898
>The story was purposefully cryptic, that's what made it interesting. It had imagination
no, *you* had imagination. the game itself has basically no plot to it. it's just "shoot monsters, get to end of level, change level, repeat" with some excuse for a "story" attached to somehow tie everything together. most of the lore is from your own imagination and immersion.

Q2 didn't have much of a story either, it was much more about the action. the story really went only as far as your mission objectives.

"Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important." - John Carmack

I find it fascinating how opinion on Quake 1 and 2 seems to change every few years. This board used to say the opposite not that long ago.

>>4165992
>no, *you* had imagination. the game itself has basically no plot to it. it's just "shoot monsters, get to end of level, change level, repeat" with some excuse for a "story" attached to somehow tie everything together. most of the lore is from your own imagination and immersion.
Right, which is why the cryptic story was good, because it wasn't force-fed to you, you were put into a bunch of different gothic environments and would think "I wonder what this place would have been used for?" or "I wonder where these enemies came from", unlike in Q2 where it was standard "aliens are attacking, defeat them" fare. You make it seem like the absence of a coherent story is actually a bad thing.

>>4165958
Agreed. Thinking the standard shotgun is useless is a telltale sign of someone who never made it through nightmare mode, or played the game much to begin with. Both shotguns are useful -- for example, if you're in an extremely tight space with an enemy like an ogre assaulting you, especially if you're backed into a corner and can't move, the SS will be your best bet because it will kill the enemy faster, thus saving your health. But for most purposes, it's better to take a little longer killing an enemy by picking away at it from a distance and rationing your ammo/health. This is why Q1 had some of the best weapons in any FPS, because even though there were very few, they each had a specific purpose and you had to change between them frequently for maximum efficiency. The only gun I can say doesn't have much of a use would be the standard nailgun, since the SN fires faster and does more damage. Although maybe I'm just not privy to an advantage that it has.

>>4166000
>unlike in Q2 where it was standard "aliens are attacking, defeat them" fare.
actually, if anything, Q2 is "aliens attacked Earth, we survived, now we're counter-attacking them"

>>4166000
Quake 1 is literally Doom in a real 3D engine. It's not even creative in that aspect except for the "Well we're in NOT HELL (hell)."

>>4166014
>aliens attacked Earth, we survived, now we're counter-attacking them"
that's q4

>Criticising Quake games based on "plot" reasons

Is this real life? FPS storylines are a very recent phenomenon.

>>4166019
>Quake 1 is literally Doom in a real 3D engine
No, it isn't. In fact, aside from the standard fare of "shoot enemies, collect powerups, find keys", they couldn't be any more different. DOOM is largely about circle-strafing in large environments, mowing down mindless enemies. Quake is much more labyrnthian, and enemies are far more dangerous and aggressive, and typically you'll only fight one or two at a time, and it's the way you handle those encounters that forms the basis of the game design. Being able to jump, rocket jump, look up and down, shoot grenades around corners, etc. All of that adds immensely to the game. Calling it "DOOM in 3D" is a huge disservice.

>It's not even creative in that aspect except for the "Well we're in NOT HELL (hell)."
I mean hey, that's your opinion, but I disagree. I like the setting of Q1 better than any other FPS. The idea of being in a fucked up medieval world where magic and science meet is pretty cool to me. If you want to perceive it as "guy shooting demons", whatever floats your boat, but you're ignoring the cryptic lore and stylistic choices which went into building a world that felt savage and ancient. An FPS game that takes place in dank dungeons, scum-soaked undead crypts, forlorne castles and temples is a lot cooler than any other FPS setting I can think of.

>>4165904
except that quake 2 is more fun than half life

>>4162916
I liked the levels, the factories and warehouses were pretty cool because they were interconnected, the enemies were fine too and the weapons are one of the best loadouts from any FPS game it took the best guns of quake and the best guns of doom and threw em together and added the rail gun. Fuck outta here the weapons are laughable you faggot

>>4162545
Yah, SP is not good, the engine was the real blast for its time. People benchmarked their 3d accelerators with Quake 2, it's one of the reasons for buying two Vodoo 2 cards for SLI. Also Nvidia TNT made its name with that card afaik, went head to head against 3dfx in benchmarks.
No one really cared about lack of story, because 3d hype was so big.
Fun times.

>>4166028
>that's q4
q4 was "q2fag killed the boss, the counter-attack continues"

>>4166034
>The idea of being in a fucked up medieval world where magic and science meet is pretty cool to me.
but that's literally your own imagination, not a real part of the game

>DOOM is largely about circle-strafing in large environments, mowing down mindless enemies.
>Quake [...] Being able to jump, rocket jump,
yeah, it's like they explicitly designed the game so that the players do those things in the first place

>>4166012
The SS is good for timed shots, not simply holding down the fire button. Because of ogres at least, if you shoot then let them get back up (maybe dodge a grenade) you can knock them down again, it can be used for a soft stunlock on some enemies.

Similar to the shadow axe in Arcane Dimensions - you can stunlock a shambler with that axe but only if you delay your shots until right before he scratches.

The nailgun is neater than the SN in my opinion. Its got a tinny sound and it shoots from either side rather than a central barrel like a normal gun. Overall its just so nifty, kinda off the wall but novel. If it has an advantage, its hit spread, since the shots are offset horizontally

But the SN just sounds harsh and the barrels have a very jerky kind of rotation. It does alot of damage but its also annoying to use and you can end up over-using nails because its distracting. It also doesn't tend to Stun enemies that much, its a damage hose and they sponge it up until they fall over dead - also because of this you can overuse nails with it thinking that you're stunning a monster rather than it dying (and you pump like 8-12 more nails in it than necessary, game gives you that ricochet sound when you're shooting a falling corpse)

The graphical presentation of the SN shooting a single "silver" nail doesnt make sense either. This gun fires 2 nails at a time and the projectile should appear to be 2 separate nails (whether they're side by side, or over-under, im leaning on the latter).

>>4165992
>>4166000
Shub was running a trans-dimensional empire with a variety of places that had been conquered before. Much like Stargate the environments were varied because thats where people (once) lived, now they serve Shub and are lucky to keep their flesh (who do you think those knights are).

The episode selection area is meta but it sorta takes the place of the RPG style (or hexen style) hub connections that would likely have been in the game if it was given proper time.

>>4166092
>The episode selection area is meta but it sorta takes the place of the RPG style (or hexen style) hub connections that would likely have been in the game if it was given proper time.
now if only the levels were at least coherent in each episode

>>4165830
Some program called pakexplr. I'm trying to get Doom 4's sound effect but none of the programs I'm using are working. Is there a repository somewhere or something? I know there's that guy who made that Doom4Doom mod. He has to have them.

>>4166081
>but that's literally your own imagination, not a real part of the game
Uhhhh yeah it is, you're using guns and exploring castles, pretty sure that's not my "imagination", bud.
>yeah, it's like they explicitly designed the game so that the players do those things in the first place
Yeah... they did design for those things in the first place, what's your point? They're different games.

>>4162545

Actually there are only 2 real problems with it that ive noticed.

The comms guy who keeps shouting orders is very bland and sounds like some 18 year old they pulled off the street. Not only that but gives you alot of very obvious mission orders for the areas you're in (which the objective computer could just tell you). Yes this is a case of shitty voice acting but it pops up so often that it really gets annoying.

There's also no real emotional attachment to characters - all the comrades that you run into have gone off their rocker heavily (maybe the strogg injected them with nanites that did that, but it isnt explained why you cant just drop small arms for these guys to use after freeing them). But the voice acting for them is also pretty bland and monotone too.

The other problem - the enemies are all really damn good shots, and the ones that aren't (gladiator) are the ones that should be. They do nerfed damage but its still pretty disheartening, unlike doom's zombies the grunts in this game can bullseye your ass, and with hitscans you're just taking the damage no matter how far away you are.

(they are cyborgs so maybe they have quickscoping software in their brain, but its still pretty awful - they should at least have randomized start trajectory, then aim to follow successive shots)

The rockets also go kinda slow too. There really is alot of target-leading with those things. This isnt just a multiplayer criticism its also ass for single player too.

> Multiplayer

kiss my ass, I didn't play MP with this game for at least a year - it wasn't until they unblocked the computers at the university comp lab and I could install the game from disk.

It isn't just about multiplayer, Q2 has a pretty long sp campaign. It feels kinda long at least.

(isnt that what she said?)

pic related I think this thread is starting to beat a dead horse

>>4166124
please use Slade 3 for quake packs

>>4166251
no

>>4165958

The Super Shotgun is a good all-rounder weapon until you get enough rockets for the Grenade Launcher and Rocket Launcher. I use it for disposing of single targets until I get around 25 or so rockets.

I think the faggots who don't like quake 2 were the people who just downloaded it and are playing without the music.

>>4166680
How would the music make it any better or worse?

>>4162545
it's not a bad game. it's solid af but holds no candle to the original. its combat is a piss poor excuse compared to the first game and it doesn't make interesting combat situations with the enemies/level design. it's a pretty sterile and vapid shooter which imo really demonstrates how important romero was to id game design. with romero you get quake, rushed as it was. without him you got quake 2 and doom 3.

>>4165904
>the only thing quake 2 is good for is half life.
actually half life came from the quake 1 engine you fucktarded doom babby

>>4167271
not him but it does make a big difference. quake 2 actually gets the blood pumping with that chug chug industrial soundtrack. generic but still pretty fun and catchy. without it it's a whole lot more monotonous.

anyway most of this thread is just doom babbies spouting meme opinions they've read as usual, from times when I shoved in their faces why they're fucking retarded and why quake 2 sucks dicks compared to the first game. I've briefly skimmed over some of the posts above providing "analysis" of quake weapons balance, shotguns etc., and as usual it's fucking ridiculously wrong and beyond idiotic. I cannot imagine just how bad the gameplay standard of these tits must be.

whatever. /vr/ as per usual represents a fucking retareded fps community of absolute retards, roots in halo, cod, etc. simply not worth my time.

No matter how much you shitpost about Quake 2, it will still be more popular than Quakeworld.

>>4167280
quake 2 and doom 3 are both great arena shooters with good mods, especially Q2 with CTF, AQ2, ChaosDM, and Gloom
doombabs will never understand

>>4167687
>quake 2 and doom 3 are both great arena shooters with good mods
No Doom 3 is ass, arena shooter included. Quake 2's mp is also ass compared to the original Quake mp.
>doombabs will never understand
Nice try doom shitter.

>>4167683
>No matter how much you shitpost about Call of Duty, it will still be more popular than Quake 2.