/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4154560
Mario 64
Paper Mario
OoT
Majora's Mask
Banjo-Tooie
Donkey Kong 64
Mario Party 3

I think the N64 has fewer "merely good" games compared to other consoles, you just have the great classics and then lots of shovelware, but its peaks are as high as anything the competition has to offer.

I was always confused by the way N64 was looked back at so fondly compared to the GCN during the following generation. Both have the same problems: mostly just a handful of classic Nintendo games with lots of bad attempts to cash-in on those games, inferior third-party ports, and a high-degree of power clashing horribly with the prohibitively small proprietary storage medium.

But then, I guess a lot of the most high-profile Gamecube games were just slightly enhanced sequels to highly innovative, game-changing N64 games like Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker and Smash Bros Melee.

By the way, are there really no RPGs on N64 aside from Quest 64 and Ogre Battle? Surely there must be some shitty Japan-only ones that nobody remembers.

>>4154786
>are there really no RPGs on N64 aside from Quest 64 and Ogre Battle?

paper mario

>>4154786
>inferior third-party ports
In the case of the NGC, it was quite the opposite actually, at least compared to the early PS2 ports.

>>4154786
>By the way, are there really no RPGs on N64 aside from Quest 64 and Ogre Battle? Surely there must be some shitty Japan-only ones that nobody remembers.
Yes and they get brought up all the time.

>>4154797
>the GameCube version is clearly a step below both the PS2 and the Xbox versions as far as in-game visuals go. Never mind 60fps, I'm happy when the GameCube SSX Tricky runs at 30 frames per second!
http://ign.com/articles/2002/04/02/ssx-tricky-head-to-head?page=2

>The [Gamecube] frame rate bogs down whenever you're taking a look at a large section of complex geometry--the Los Angeles, Tokyo, and Skater Island levels are the worst offenders here. Some sections of Tokyo cause the frame rate to drop rather drastically.
>PlayStation 2 version only rarely slows down
>the GameCube version also looks slightly washed-out when compared to the PS2's vibrant colors.
http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/tony-hawks-pro-skater-3-review/1900-2825357/

The droughts inbetween the N64's good games were horrible, there was no good third party titles to really hold you over inbetween those. it's not a horrible console but I expected more from a nintendo console, especially right after the SNES

it has no game if you hate nintendo games

>>4154786
Melee is the only god-tier Gamecube game imo, compared to multiple such games on the N64. Metroid Prime is good, but not quite that good. Sunshine and Wind Waker were both inferior to N64 Mario and Zelda. What did the Gamecube really have outside of that? Animal Crossing was neat. Tales of Symphonia seems to have a lot of fans, but I've never played it.

>>4154905
>there was no good third party titles
You can keep repeating this meme but it doesn't make it true. I swear, the "N64 has no good third party games" meme is another iteration of "Genesis has no games other than Sonic" meme.

It's literally born from the ignorance of babbies who don't know of any game that doesn't have modern brand name recognition.

>>4155007
>Genesis has no games other than Sonic
That one's actually true though.

>>4155012
Bloodlines, Treasure games, Phantasy Star IV, best Aladdin, best Earhtworm Jim, Rocket Knight, Dynamite Haady, Capcom/Disney, Warsong, etc etc etc

>>4154786
Gamecube doesn't have the same British games as the N64.

>>4154992
animal crossing and harvest moon were both amazing games on the GC

hell you die in harvest moon from fucking old age

>>4155027
>best Aladdin

>>4154905
Did you grow up playing N64?

The thing about it was the games that you had were so good, you didn't necessarily want another or it would definitely hold you over until another game was released

>>4155493
This is getting as stale as australia-kun's meme images.

>>4154572
Add Bomberman 64 to that list and Super Smash brothers 64 -- not only did the N64 have some incredibly solid titles, they could be exponentially more fun when played with friends

>>4155027
>best Aladdin
Come on man, I love the MD, but Aladdin is an average western platformer with some control issues. Pretty graphics but I'd rather play Alien Soldier or if you want to talk about licensed platformers, how about Buster's Hidden Treasure?

>>4155583
It doesn't have control issues, it just doesn't control exactly like Mario so it is automatically crap.

Still better than the shit that was the SNES game mind you.

>>4155589
What? No, I like platformers like Ristar or Quackshot, and they don't control like Mario. They also don't have hitbox issues, like Aladdin.
I'm not really interested in SNES vs MD console war shitposting, shitposter, I'm just saying there's many, many other better platformers on MD before Virgindin.

>>4155589
>waaah, anyone who doesn't overrate Aladdin like I do is an evil Nintendo fanboy!
Get a load of this console warrior.

>>4155601
Nobody's overrated Perry's Aladdin. We just think it's better than the Crapcum one.

>>4155612
Nobody even mentioned the other game, you console warrior poorfag, just saying Aladdin isn't one of the best platformers on the system, not even close.

>>4154786

>RPGs on N64

Hybrid Heaven is similar to Vagrant Story except with wrasslan and ayy lmaos

>>4154560
Pretty much any of the FPSes, WCW vs. nWo World Tour, WCW nWo Revenge, WWF WrestleMania 2000, WWF No Mercy, Virtual Pro Wrestling, Virtual Pro Wrestling 2, Star Fox 64, Mario Kart 64, F-Zero X, Cruis'n U.S.A., Sin & Punishment, Bangai-O, Super Smash Bros., etc.

>>4154786
N64 had the best FPSes, wrestling games, 3D platformers, and non-realistic racing games, all of which were a big deal at the time. GC had Super Smash Bros. Melee and Resident Evil 4 and that was IT aside from some obscure niche games. The two scenarios aren't even comparable.

>>4155612
Well, if you think a game with hitbox issues is better than a game without them, you're overrating it. But as the other anon said, it's mostly console warrior faggotry on your part, since nobody mentioned the Capcom game, except for you.
Must feel bad having to defend bad childhood taste even 25 years later.

>>4155617
>Nobody even mentioned the other game, you console warrior poorfag,
The other guy did up above. And I owned both a SNES and Genesis, mind you.

>just saying Aladdin isn't one of the best platformers on the system, not even close.
It's still worth a playthrough however, and way better than shit like Bubsy or Aero the Acrobat.

>>4155628
>The other guy did up above.
Who?
>It's still worth a playthrough however
Don't act all innocent, if we were talking about SNES, you'd be telling people to stay away from the "Crapcum" game, meanwhile you Sega bias makes it okay to oversee the actual control and design problems the Perry Aladdin has.
If you're gonna shit on Capcom's Aladdin, then shit on the Genesis game too, both games are average and not among the best of the generation.

>>4155624
>let me exaggerate this one flaw from a good Sega game (a case of spotty collision detection) because it fits my pro-Nintendo narrative
>also, collision detection is the only metric for grading a game's quality, who cares about level design, aesthetics, sound or controls?

>>4155653
>if you don't suck Perry's dick, you're a pro-Nintendo fanboy
This is getting boring.
It's not even a Sega-published game.
Also, controls is inherently related to collision detection.

>>4155653
Level design is very subpar.
Only good things are graphics and maybe music. Still not a top Genesis game, not even top 50. (Same as how Capcom Aladdin isn't even top 50 SNES)

>>4155619
Psx and saturn had fire pro, both better than n64 offerings, though virtual pro is very good

>>4155657
>This is getting boring.
So is you trying to tell us to stop having opinions.

>Also, controls is inherently related to collision detection.
Yeah, but not the only factor. For all intensive purposes, Aladdin gameplay is solid and responsive, and you can learn the game's hitboxes instead of crying about it online.

>>4155669
I'm not crying about anything, just calling you out on your fanboysim of thinking that anyone who doesn't think Genesis Aladdin is one of the best games on the system is automatically a Nintendo fanboy. I grew up with a Mega Drive, and I'd rather play Ghostbusters or Mc Donald's Treasure Land rather than Aladdin.

>>4155669
Maybe try being less defensive. Next time someone says Aladdin isn't that good, just accept they don't enjoy the game as much as you do, instead of accusing them of having "pro-Nintendo narratives".

Has EA blinded us so that we have forgotten the best version (64) of the greatest footegg game that was, and will ever be created?
>see pic
<--

>>4155669
>For all intensive purposes

>>4154786
N64 was the worst console of all time. not 1 goddamn game is replayable. the only people who like it were either babys or not even born when it was released

>>4155720
Imagine being this delusional.

>>4155720
Hyperbole aside, you're right, N64 was the point where Nintendo stopped being a major player and was sorely lacking games compared to NES/SNES. I always wonder how games would be like now if Sony had just been another 3DO, CDi, etc. and Nintendo vs. Sega had gone on longer... but that's just wishful thinking on my part.

>>4155569
I've played Melee competitively for years, so I really love it and it kind of overshadows 64 for me, but yeah, Smash 64 is an excellent game too.

>>4155583
>Buster's Hidden Treasure
Oh man, that game was my shit. I was so excited when we finally bought it, instead of having to constantly rent it from Blockbuster.

>>4155720
I was born in '92 and I love the N64, am I a baby?

How can someone claim that OoT and MM aren't replayable? If you claim that most of the people who like the N64 "weren't even born when it was released," then doesn't that indicate that N64 games are legitimately good, if people without nostalgia can still discover them for the first time and enjoy them?

I don't know why I'm replying to this, you're probably a troll anyway.

>>4155738
how old are you again?

>>4155768
youre an idiot

>>4155768
well... you proved my point, slick

>>4154797
When they actually did a decent job of porting, yes. When they just swapped out button textures and compressed all others, no.

>>4155720
I get that N64 triggers some people on here real hard, but this doesn't even make sense. Almost all of the good N64 games are highly replayable action/platforming games. It had very few prominent RPGs or cinematic games that would be considered poor for replaying. Those were mostly on the PS1 with a few on Saturn.

>>4155745
>Nintendo stopped being a major player

>>4155720
>not 1 goddamn game is replayable
>sm64
>not replayable
there's literally unlimited things you can do in this game.

>>4154879
Gamecube as I recall got superior ports for games like TLOTR The Two Towers, Prince Of Persia TSOT, and others
Most ports were at least as good - SpongeBob, Simpsons H&R, TimeSplitters, Soul Calibur 2 etc

>>4155745

Nintendo didn't stop being a major player, it just stopped being the dominant player.

Sega signed its own death warrant with the Saturn in the same generation. Nobody was ready for the Playstation.

>>4155007
It's hard to blame someone for not knowing of N64's library when the good non-Nintendo stuff didn't sell and no one ever talked about it at the time.

Literally 75% of the top 50 best-selling N64 games were Nintendo, the rest were either Rare (which was basically second-party), Star Wars or sports/wrestling. So even if you had Nintendo Power or EGM odds are you weren't really aware of half the good games on the system.

So most N64 owners probably would go to the store and be like "OK, the fuck is any of this, Army Men? Clay Fighter? Ogre Battle?" and then just go to the massive wall of Nintendo-published games with all the stuff they do know about. When your average kid is probably going to get less than a dozen games over their console's lifespan back then, your library could very easily be made up entirely of Nintendo games.

>>4154786
>By the way, are there really no RPGs on N64 aside from Quest 64 and Ogre Battle?
My friend swears by Adyin Chronicles but it's really rough. I think it's nostalgia.

>>4155826
>the level design is so bad and broken you can find unlimited glitches
WHAT A GREAT GAME
TRULY A MASTERPIECE

>>4155720
What you are trying to say is

>Waaaah N64 players and Miyamoto raped my mother 24/7 in front of me and my poorstation 1 waaaah!!!!!

Ftfy.

Come on dude, n64 is not that bad. Rage boners for n64 are killing this board slowly.

>>4156523
>the level design is so bad
The level design is amazing and works in perfect harmony with the freedom you're given in movement.
>glitches
The game has plenty of glitches, but what I'm referring to here are not glitches. Nintendo has always intended for players to have a ton of freedom and to complete stars in creative ways.

They used the opposite design philosophy in Galaxy, giving players no freedom, and pigeonholing them into doing everything in one specific way.

>>4154971
It has no games if you hate ugly 3D nintendo games

>>4156574
People claiming that the N64 was the best console ever are what's causing those hateboners. That and the fact that you seem to be incapable of praising your favorite console without constantly shitting on its competition.

>>4156608
Hardly anybody calls it the best system ever. It just seems to really trigger PS1 fans when people say that the N64 was a worthy competitor.

>>4156616
Get real. No N64 fanboy ever called it a "worthy competitor" and while there may not be too many that claim it's the best system ever, almost all of them claim that it's by far the system of its generation.

What do you think is the best system ever, if not the N64?

>>4156621
Most people on here seem to think the SNES is best system ever.

>>4156621
>almost all of them claim that it's by far the system of its generation.
No, pretty sure N64 fans only claim that the console had a disproportionate number of the best games of its generation. That's where the whole "worthy competitor" thing comes in. Even though the console had way fewer games than PS1, because it happened to have a lot of it groundbreaking games on it that helped even up the odds.

>What do you think is the best system ever, if not the N64?
Apple II

>>4156629
>No, pretty sure N64 fans only claim that the console had a disproportionate number of the best games of its generation.
And the best hardware.

>>4156630
That one's true though, cartridges aside

>>4156596
>The level design is amazing and works in perfect harmony with the freedom you're given in movement.
It's the laziest level design ever
"you can go everywhere and do everything"
literally no level design

>>4156630
Can't dispute that, no sound chips though

Bottom line here is, you know, the 64 has enough great titles to justify its existence. Same with the Cube. Yes, the PS1 and PS2 curbstomped Nintendo and everyone else from 1996 to 2006. But if you can't find at least 6 titles on the N64 to justify owning one, you're not worth talking to.

>>4156630
with the worst graphical output. greater tech specs mean nothing if the resulting picture quality is worse than that of lower specced machines

>>4156629
>N64 fans only claim that the console had a disproportionate number of the best games of its generation.
That's highly subjective and only even debatable when all you care about is platforming games and low FPS, dogshit ugly Zelda games.

>>4156638
>with the worst graphical output.
Looked better than competitors on composite (what people used back then), and UltraHDMI exists these days (for those who want the best output).

>>4156641
>what people used back then
only in shitmerica

>>4156634
>"you can go everywhere and do everything"
No, you can't. At least not right away. Your freedom directly scales with your movement skill. That's objectively good design.

>>4156641
>and UltraHDMI exists these days (for those who want the best output).
Or Tim's RGB board with deblur if you're playing on a CRT.

The n64 has around 100 or so great to average games.

/vr/ is autistic.

Why do people hate the n64 exactly?

What the fuck did it do to you? It's my favorite console and I still play shit on it on a regular basis.

>>4157125
It's great but 2 GOAT games doesn't make a GOAT console

Super Mario 64
Superman 64
Tonic Trouble
Paper Mario
Legend of Zelda: Orarina of Time
Pokemon Puzzle League
Pokemon Stadium/Pokemon Stadium 2
Pokemon Snap
Mario Party
Mario Party 2
Glover
San Francisco Rush: Extreme Racing
007 GoldenEye
Snowboarding Kids

>>4157125
It was okay, just a big fucking quality drop from the SNES. And the selection of games gets even more scarce if you hate collectathons like me the.

It's a great multiplayer console though.

>>4156608
>Getting this MAD at other people/normies opinion.

Who gives a shit my man? Just enjoy the games, the opinion of people overrating the thing will not appear in your screen while you are playing. Stop being a resentful fag.

>>4156640
Retrogames in general look like shit compared to modern standards.
Also the press and the popular opinion of a generation speak for themselves when they say they love the system.
N64 was and is still being praised by those ugly games that made you cry when you were a baby.

>>4156636
This.

>>4156604
>WAAAAA I want some cute animu loli polished graphics from old consoles x3 WAAAH!!!

Get out of here.

>>4154789
its really hard to call paper mario an rpg with almost every aspect that makes an rpg an rpg is relegated to must get/have pickups

>>4156628
there is a dead zone between snes and late ps2 life were every game looked like shit because 3d was in no way ready yet and by the time we came out of that hellhole of a time, games were being made by committee.

>>4157285
late ps2 and modern graphics will start looking ugly soon enough, if they don't already
>but I like them!
That's the thing, tastes are subjective. That's the whole deal behind "games age" meme.

dates games= all of retro games, they're all "dated" by definition. It doesn't imply anything negative or positive.
aged games= don't exist, games don't age.

>>4157285
>5th gen/early 6th gen was a hellhole of a time
>not the greatest time for gaming ever
Certainly a lot of my favorite games come from the era. Maybe you were just going through a bad time in life or something? There were just so many great games, hard to believe that there's literally nothing there for you.

N64 sucks

>>4157364
Maybe if you keep repeating that mantra, it will become true one day.

I'm replaying Kirby 64 in m64+. Such a comfy game...

>>4157125
>Why do people hate the n64 exactly?
>It's my favorite console
That's why. People like you.

How can it be your favorite console? What's wrong with you?

>>4157237
>Retrogames in general look like shit compared to modern standards.
Old 2D games look better than almost all modern 2D games because they are all butt ugly hipster trash with extremely shitty graphics. You couldn't be more wrong or mad.

>>4157386
Because it has so many fantastic games? Just look at the lists posted in this thread. There's no other console that has so many games that make me go "yes, that's one of my favorite games, I love that game." I don't wake up in the morning thinking "oh my god I love the N64 I'm such a huge fan," and many of my most favorite games are on other consoles, but when I step back and take a look at things, I don't think there's any other single console that has given me as many good experiences as the N64.

What's your favorite console? And don't you dare say it's the fucking SNES, because if you think the SNES is the greatest thing ever but it's completely unreasonable for anyone to love the N64 then you're just blinded by nostalgia.

n64 is a fun console but the game selection is a little bit low compared to ps1. Sure n64 has god tier games but they all fall under similar genres like platforming and a few good shooters. PS1 had the ultimate variety and it did kind of bring casuals into the video game scene but the game selection on ps1 > n64.

Multiplayer games were better on n64 though.

>>4157398
Yeah, 2d games look like shit because I say so.
Waaaaaa old 2d games look like shit! 2D is ugly and only hipsters like it waahh waahh!! thos ugly hipsters ruin everything waa!!
I mean how can that old sega/super nintendo/ps1/n64 could even compete against my new pc with 4k? There's no space for charm or limitations! Only beauty graphics are allowed and that should be the rule for everyone!!! waaa!!.

Fucking die already kid, your logic is shit.
N64 will be loved forever because it's a fun console with fun games, no matter how much you try to hate it lmao.

>>4157504
>how to have a reading comprehension of a sub 80 IQ retard and sound like an edgy kid at the same time

Sure showed him.

Guys I'm new to /vr/
How strict is the pre-1999 rule? If I talked Paper Mario, which came out in 2001, am I banned?

>>4157945
Your post has been targetedfor deletion just for mentioning it without spoiler tags.

>>4157945
No

>>4156516

I played through aydin chronicles earlier this year, never having played it before. The game is quite good, very impressive for its time. It has a huge world, is very challenging, the story is very unique and there is permadeath for your party members. It's the best RPG on the N64 alongside paper mario IMO.

>>4157945
The only time the 1999 cutoff applies to software is if it's a computer game. For consoles and arcade boards, it goes by release date of the hardware.

>>4158003
so if I made a DreamCast game right now, it would be retro?

>>4158009
Yes. Romhacks or whatever all fall under /vr/.

>>4154786

the only franchise that was better on the gamecube than on the N64 was smash bros melee. Other than that, the gamecube only had metroid and pikmin, while the N64 had all the Rare games and a lot more exclusive games.

>By the way, are there really no RPGs on N64 aside from Quest 64 and Ogre Battle?
paper mario, hybrid heaven, and Aydin Chronicles.


>Surely there must be some shitty Japan-only ones that nobody remembers
Animal crossing is actually a N64 game released only in japan. There is also Shiren 2, robopon 64, custom robo 1 and 2, and a few others.

>>4158014
>the only franchise that was better on the gamecube than on the N64 was smash bros melee.
F-Zero GX was better than X, if only marginally.

Plenty of people liked Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door more than the original also.

>>4154560
Star Fox
F-zero
Sin and punishment
Wave race
Conners bad fur day
Super mario
Mario kart
Smash bros
Bangai-O

>>4158003
So Thief TDP is A-Okay, but a Thief 2 thread is expulsion?

>>4158031
>F-Zero GX was better than X, if only marginally.
HELL no

>>4158084
Computer games is a grey area. Some people have been saying that games like Deus Ex and Halo can be allowed because they're compatible with Windows 98, a retro operating system.

>>4158031

Yeah, I though F-zero GX and Paper Mario TTYD were better than the ones on the N64 but I was wrong. I got to play the original paper mario and F-zero X recently and ended up prefering them.

>>4154560

>3D platformers:
Conker's bad fur day
banjo kazooie
banjo tooie
mario 64
DK64

>racing
mario kart 64
diddy kong racing
bettle adventure racing
star wars racer
excitebike 64
f-zero x
road rash 64
snowboard kids

>FPS
perfect dark
goldeneye
the world is not enough
turok
turok 2
turok 3
doom 64

>TPS
jet force gemini
duke nukem zero hour
RE2
star wars shadows of the empire
winback
megaman legends

>shooters
star wars rogue squadron
star fox 64
bangai-o
sin and punishment

>RPG
paper mario
aidyn chronicles
hybrid heaven
gauntlet legends
custom robo
ogre battle 64

>fighting
smash bros
killer instinc
wwf no mercy
rakuga kids


>action/adventure
zelda OoT
zelda MM
mystical ninja starring goemon
pokemon snap
body harvest

>sports
1080 snowboarding
mario tennis
mario golf
tony hawk series

others:
blast corps
starcraft 64
mario party 2 and 3
pokemon stadium 1 and 2
harvest moon 64

>>4158127
you forgot Mischief Makers and Space Station Silicon Valley.

>>4157386
wow rude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OjBulwHIc8

This is pretty fucking rad

>>4158142

true. my bad.

Banjo-Kazooie
Banjo-Tooie
Blast Corps
Bomberman 64
Bomberman Hero
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Diddy Kong Racing
Donkey Kong 64
F-Zero X
Glover
Goemon's Great Adventure
GoldenEye 007
Jet Force Gemini
Kirby 64 The Crystal Shards
TheLegend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Mario Kart
Mario Party
Mega Man 64
Mischief Makers
Ogre Battle 64
Paper Mario
Perfect Dark
Starfox
Star Wars Episode I: Racer
Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
Super Mario 64
Super Smash Bros
Yoshi's Story

Why do people say theres no games for the n64?

>>4158386
>Banjo-Tooie
>Bomberman Hero
>Conker's Bad Fur Day
>Donkey Kong 64
>Glover
>GoldenEye 007
>Kirby 64 The Crystal Shards
>Mario Party
>Mega Man 64
>Mischief Makers
>Paper Mario
>Perfect Dark
>Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
>Super Smash Bros
>Yoshi's Story

Remove these shitty games from your list, you're not doing the N64 any favours by including them.

>>4154786
>I was always confused by the way N64 was looked back at so fondly

The N64's top 10 are all 10/10 games. No other console can make that claim. The gamecube was just meh in comparison with some really underwhelming games like WW and Sunshine.

The N64 was also the first console to have standard 4 player support, and since this was before widespread home internet that feature got lots of use. This is unlike with later consoles, including the GCN, where the other controller ports were rarely used except for melee as online console gaming was becoming more widespread.

>>4156621

>>4158419
> The N64's top 10 are all 10/10 games.

10/10 to casual gaming faggots which includes 99% of video game reviewers.

Virtua Fighter 2 on the fucking Saturn is a more impressive game than anything on the N64.

>>4158530
And MGS alone is more influential an innovative than anything on the N64.

>>4158536
How is MGS innovative? Also FFVII already invented 'cinematic 3D gaming' a year before it.

>>4158536
This is objectively false. Super Mario 64 and The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time are probably the first and third most influential 3D games ever made. Grand Theft Auto III is second.

>>4158536
HAHAHAAHA
LOL
gimmick game

>>4158393
Hot opinion, too bad it's not important or relevant.

>>4158393
you're retarded lmao

>>4158530
>casual gaming faggots
As opposed to what?

You can't seriously think playing PS1 games makes you a "hardcore gamer" lmao.

>>4158643
manchild, lololol

>Your opinions are shit!
>No! Your opinions are shit.
Wow, /vr/ learn to have a proper fucking discussion.

>>4158647
Sure thing, sweetie. Now run along and play your big boy games like Spryo and Final Fantasy.

>>4154560
As someone who owned both an N64 and PS1 during the 5th gen era, I can safely say that the "N64 has no games" meme is a complete fucking lie. Not only does N64 have a ton of great games, but the games are typically of a much higher quality than what was available on competing consoles. I've played just about every worthwhile title on both systems and I can tell you, anyone who says something like "Alien Resurrection is better than Perfect Dark" or "Crash Bandicoot is better than Banjo-Kazooie" is either blinded by bias or has never played an N64. PS1 has some classics -- Resident Evil series, Mega Man Legends 2, Ape Escape, Medievil, etc. However, by and large, the N64 trounces the PS1 in every genre except RPGs and fighters. While it may only have a library 1/10th as big, it has at least 1 or 2 incredible games in almost every genre, and in fact, the number of great N64 games is quite large. To name a few:

>Ocarina of Time
>Majora's Mask
>Super Mario 64
>Banjo-Kazooie
>Banjo-Tooie
>Yoshi's Story
>Conker's Bad Fur Day
>Mischief Makers
>All the Mario Party games
>Goldeneye
>Perfect Dark
>DOOM 64
>Mario Kart 64
>Diddy Kong Racing
>F-Zero X
>Super Smash Bros.
>Star Fox 64
>Jet Force Gemini
>Blast Corps
>Wetrix
>Ogre Battle 64
>Paper Mario
>Tetrisphere

The list goes on. This isn't even counting all of the amazing ports the N64 received which were, contrary to popular belief, usually better than the ports on PS1, like Rayman 2, Gauntlet Legends, etc. And, almost every game on this list was released to critical acclaim. The N64 was an absolute treasure trove of fantastic games, the problem is that many of the best games were simply overshadowed by "Mario games" like SM64 and OoT, so they are what the console is remembered for. The truth is, the PS1, while a good console, is absolutely brimming with complete shit and even the best games on the console are usually amateur hour compared to what Nintendo and Rare produced.

>>4158669
>except RPGs and fighters
and survival horror

>>4158669
This. Also the 4 player moder for The New Tetris 64 is amazing. 90's electronic music similar to the chemical brothers with beautiful visuals.

The people who say the console is shit usually a) Don't have no money for an everdrive or the games in general.
b) They are stuck with shitty emulation
c) They are resentful sonydrones who had to deal with the love the console get even if sold less than their cringy rpg machine.

People who vehemently hate N64 are some of the dumbest people I've ever encountered on the internet.

It's okay to like PS1 more, but Jesus Christ, calm the fuck down.

>>4158680
Agreed. Especially on this point:
>c) They are resentful sonydrones who had to deal with the love the console get even if sold less than their cringy rpg machine
I actually think this is the biggest thing right here. It's almost like they're jealous, so they have to pretend that you like the N64 more than the PS1 because you're mentally damaged or something. It's like the very idea that something which had less games and sold less units was better confuses and angers them. When I think about my time spent playing N64 as a kid, I have nothing but positive memories -- staying up late playing Goldeneye with friends, battling each other in Mario Kart 64, experiencing the epic world of Zelda, etc. When I think back to the times I played the PS1, it's almost sort of... depressing. A lot of memories of just sitting by myself playing Final Fantasy 7/9 or Resident Evil in the dark. Like I said, I love both consoles, but people who hate the N64 must have had a truly shit childhood.

>>4158536
That's a movie anon. Also it has some serious clunky controls and literally no expresion from the characters.
>>4158530
It's a really good game, but why are you so mad my sega friend? I'm really sad that your company went downhill but the n64 and the love that mario 64 gets is not the reason of that.
People really love and overrate ocarina and mario 64 because they were really cohesive yet surreal games. Also both had fun 3d controls in an era dominated by 2d games.

>>4158693
>It's a really good game, but why are you so mad my sega friend?
Don't even bother with this faggot. I guarantee this is a salty Saturn shitter who thinks Nights is better than SM64, or that "Saturn was the most powerful console". The very statement that a generic 3D fighter could be better than games like Ocarina, Banjo, StarFox or Perfect Dark is the literal peak of autism, and thus should be ignored.

>>4158683
My thoughts exactly

>>4158691
Yes. Actual N64 discussions have a lot of an emotional side from a lot of people around the world, the most popular games for the system had some are really charming, unpretentious and jaw-dropping moments that went right to the heart. But in the case of Ps1 owners they always tend to speak so resentfully about other consoles or they go directly to raw numbers to feel better about themselves, about how much their console sold or how many games were made for the console but not the actual experience from the games.
I mean I really like my ps1 but the fanbase is cancer in here.

>"Saturn and n64 were shit hhaha! They will never experience 82 hours of grinding and speaking to pixel for hours. We had more space and cd's dude!!!"

64 GAMES FOR THE N64:

007: The World Is Not Enough
1080° Snowboarding
Animal Crossing
Banjo-Kazooie
Banjo-Tooie
Beetle Adventure Racing!
Blast Corps
Body Harvest
Bomberman 64
Castlevania
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Diddy Kong Racing
Doom 64
Duke Nukem 64
Extreme-G
F-Zero X
Gex 64: Enter the Gecko
Goemon's Great Adventure
GoldenEye 007
Harvest Moon 64
Hexen
Jet Force Gemini
Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Mario Golf
Mario Kart 64
Mario Party
Mario Party 2
Mario Party 3
Mario Tennis
Mega Man 64
Mischief Makers
Mortal Kombat 4
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon
Paper Mario
Perfect Dark
Pilotwings 64
Pokémon Puzzle League
Pokémon Snap
Pokémon Stadium
Rainbow Six
Resident Evil 2
Rocket: Robot on Wheels
San Francisco Rush 2049
Shadow Man
Sin and Punishment
Snowboard Kids
Snowboard Kids 2
Space Station Silicon Valley
Star Fox 64
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron
Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
Super Mario 64
Super Smash Bros.
Tetrisphere
Turok: Dinosaur Hunter
Turok 2: Seeds of Evil
Turok 3: Shadows of Oblivion
Turok: Rage Wars
Wipeout 64
WWF No Mercy
Yoshi's Story

>>4158720
Animal Crossing only in Japan on the 64, E+ is better anyway if you speak runes
also
>no ogre battle
>>4158705
Eh, that's both an argument and a non argument, I do kind of agree something as subjective as entertainment comes from a very emotional place but that was also a very awkward time for video games, I think that's probably the worst generation in video games really only saved by how comfy it became in retrospect. It really comes to personal taste and there's no wrong favorite here, because you could say that the N64 only had shitty rehashes of Nintendo IPs or the Saturn was only for shmup autists and this is all very subjective. It really depends what genres you like to be honest.

>>4158749
>because you could say that the N64 only had shitty rehashes of Nintendo IPs or the Saturn was only for shmup autists and this is all very subjective. It really depends what genres you like to be honest.
Except that's objectively false. That's a terrible argument because someone could only say that if they literally haven't played any of hte game. What shitty rehashes? The first 3D entry in Zelda and Mario games which were mostly unlike previous games in both series? Outside of that, I can't think of anything that could be considered a "shitty rehash", especially given that most of the best games on the console were original IPs developed by Rare. There's nothing subjective about it. It's one thing to say "I dislike the games", then okay, whatever, but anyone who makes these kind of arguments is speaking from ignorance rather than a difference in opinion. Same goes for Saturn.

>>4158749
>5th gen
>worst gen in video games

>>4158761
Yes. compared to the 4th the 5th was sorta weak

>>4158763
>Yes. compared to the 4th the 5th was sorta weak
Oh look, it's the "muh 2d games were the best" meme again. No it wasn't. The 4th gen was almost nothing but 2D sidescrollers, jrpgs and the like. The genres and graphics were incredibly limited by the technology. Saturn and PS1 had hundreds of those same kind of games, but with better graphics and controls, in addition to the amazing 3D games on N64 and other consoles. Besides, saying gen 5 was the worst when gens 1-3 exist is autism. 5th was not the worst, if this is seriously what you think, you are retarded.

>>4158749
>5th gen worse than 1, 2, 7, and 8
Honestly, what the fuck is your problem? Did 5th gen molest people when they were kids or something? I don't understand how it can inspire such strong feelings of condemnation in people.

>>4158780
It's because most of the people hating on 5th gen are mentally retarded normies who don't appreciate the charm of primitive 3D graphics and probably never even played most of the best games, many of which were 2D anyway. Faggots like this guy are either permanently stuck in the 2D era, which they falsely consider to be the "golden age", or grew up with PS3.

>>4158785
I suppose so. I do get pretty frustrated with 2D supremacists who think that the SNES is the unconquerable epitome of gaming, especially when many 5th gen games are so obviously superior to me - OoT beats LttP, FF9 beats FF6, etc - but I guess people who grew up on the PS3 would say the same thing about me, thinking I'm weird for thinking that 5th gen and early 6th gen was the high point of gaming and that I just can't appreciate all the great things more modern games have to offer.

>>4158807
I don't think that 8bit/16bit trumps every other generation. I think gaming has evolved since then, becoming better in some ways and worse in others. with that said,
>OoT beats LttP, FF9 beats FF6
heresy

>>4158819
FF9 and FF6 are the only FFs worth playing js

>>4158823
ff4 is also quite good. it's the quintessential RPG.
I haven't played ff5 (though I've been meaning to), but everyone says it's good and the job system looks cool.
ff1, for all its glitches and roughness, is worth playing for the history and for its unique charm.

>>4158819
>heresy
No. LttP is fine, that's it. I will never understand the mountains of praise that game gets.

With FF6, I can at least understand how it would have been amazing to play in its time, and I can respect people who say it's their favorite FF. But I have a really special connection with FF9. It's one of my favorite games period, not just favorite FF or favorite RPG.

>>4158836
the first 10 final fantasies are all pretty good in different ways.

LttP is greatness, because it takes the classic top-down Zelda format and brings it to its peak. OoT and MM are very good games, but 3d took the series in a new direction, one that was good in its own way but could never match LttP.

I guess it all comes down to personal taste.

>>4158393

go suck a bag of dicks

>>4158386

>Why do people say theres no games for the n64?

people born in the ps2 era or that never owned one and only heard about the n64 through youtubers.

that or sony fanboys

>>4158386
I dont see anything in your post, it's completely blank, how did you do that?!

>>4158856
>I dont see anything in your post, it's completely blank, how did you do that?!
t. autistic underage

>>4158819
>heresy
ALttP is good, but the story, gameplay and scope of OoT demolishes it at every turn. Also, the 2D FF games are ass and 7 is beyond overrated. 9 was the peak of the series, no doubt.

>>4158846
>I guess it all comes down to personal taste.
That's where you're wrong, faggot child.

>>4158864
Glad to see someone who feels the same way I do (including thinking that FF7 is wildly overrated). Only thing I would change is that the 2D FFs aren't THAT bad. FF4 is quite charming, and I can respect FF6 for what it accomplished, even if actually playing it doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.

>>4158865
yea and that same site gives LttP 95/9.0, which is within margin of error. what's your point?

>>4158864
it had more story, I'll give you that. gameplay? no. scope? considering all that LttP did with 16 bits, warping between light/dark worlds, all the secrets and details, I disagree. I only recently found out that you can dash into cane of somaria blocks and make em bounce away.

>2D FF games are ass
lmao you're not even trying to be fair.

>>4158875
>gameplay? no
Not that guy, but really? OOT has objectively more depth to its gameplay. The base movement mechanics alone have dozens of more options, and that's not even factoring in combat.

>>4158883
mechanics might be more restricted in LttP, but they did more with less imo. of course a 3d format opens up more options, but considering how much they packed into LttP, I wouldn't say OoT is decisively better in that regard.

>>4158875
>gameplay? no.
Are you saying that you just subjectively like LttP's gameplay better? Because if so, that's fine, but OoT just has objectively more to do in its gameplay. Riding Epona around, playing songs on the ocarina, using the bow and hookshot in 3D, all the minigames, etc.

>scope
Just saying that LttP had light/dark worlds is hardly a point in favor of its scope, considering that both maps put together is probably still smaller than all of OoT's non-dungeon areas put together.

>secrets and details
I'm not the completionist type, so I can't say which is the better experience for someone who's really into finding secrets. But OoT had tons of hidden heart pieces just like LttP did, and also added the gold Skulltulas.

>>4158901
that's true. it's been a long time since I played it, I'm just now remembering mounted archery etc.

as I said, considering the jump between 16bit and 64bit, I would expect a somewhat larger scope. OoT had a bigger world, but LttP did really well in fitting lots of content within its limits. I wouldn't expect an SNES game to have a larger in-game world than an n64 game.

they are two different games with two very different formats, with different pros/cons and limitations. they're both excellent for what they are. preferring OoT is respectable, but I think LttP showed a mastery of its form that OoT did not quite reach. other than that, they're difficult to compare, which leads to endless arguments (like this one).

>>4157264
All Mario RPGs are like that.

IMO SMRPG is the most "vanilla" of the lot due to Square doing it.

>>4158890
>they did more with less
like what?

>>4158875
>gameplay? no
Are you serious right now? Literally everything about the gameplay was deeper and far improved over ALttP. The combat alone went from "swing sword" to an entire moveset of different slices, rolls, jumps, etc. That's not even accounting for all the different ways you could use items like the bow and hookshot given the fully 3D environments, epona, the platforming, the better character interaction and minigames, everything. The gameplay isn't even fucking comparable dude.

>scope? considering all that LttP did with 16 bits
Stop right there, friend. It doesn't matter how much ALttP "did with 16 bits", what matters is the end result. If we're talking about which one had the larger and more intricate world, OoT wins. If we're talking about which game was more technically impressive for the era, OoT still wins. ALttP was a simple refinement of the original Zelda 1 formula, but it was by no means revolutionary in the way that OoT's world was, and either way, the world of OoT was still bigger, better and far more content-rich than the relatively tiny world of ALttP.

>I only recently found out that you can dash into cane of somaria blocks and make em bounce away.
What the fuck kind of point is this? So what? OoT had dozens of little secrets like this. You can play Zelda's Lullaby for broken sign posts to fix them, you can play Song of Storms in secret places to make fairies appear, you can shoot palm trees to make them drop nuts and rupees, you can roll into regular trees to make them drop hearts, you can touch a butterfly with a deku stick and turn it into a fairy, you can flip over a tektite using the megaton hammer, you can rip the fishing hole owner's hat off his head with the fishing pole... there are literally, and I do mean literally, hundreds of secrets like this in OoT. Again, ALttP cannot even begin to compare.

>>4158875
>yea and that same site gives LttP 95/9.0, which is within margin of error. what's your point?
And what is your point? ALttP is a good game, no doubt, but not better than OoT in almost any way. Thus, the difference between 99 and 95 is accurate.

>>4158931
like all the dungeon crawling, puzzles, numerous items and all their uses, exploring and unlocking the map, having to warp between worlds to progress, etc. overall, there's a sense of compact utility.

>>4158934
the combat of LttP was more than just 'swing sword', there's spin slashes and sometimes you need items. not to mention the different enemy patterns.

>ALttP was a simple refinement of the original Zelda 1 formula
it was more than a simple refinement, it was the pinnacle of that form. naturally I wouldn't expect OoT to master a new form to the same extent, although its use of 3d is quite good.

that's true about secrets, like I said, it's been awhile. that was just one example of all the details they put into it.

I'll admit, OoT is bigger and has more stuff and variety. that doesn't necessarily make it decisively superior as a game.

>>4158947
>like all the dungeon crawling
OOT has that.
>puzzles
OOT has those
>numerous items and all their uses
those too
>exploring and unlocking the map
and that
>having to warp between worlds to progress
that too (time travel, admittedly, but the same idea.)
>there's a sense of compact utility.
what does that even mean?

>>4158947
>the combat of LttP was more than just 'swing sword', there's spin slashes and sometimes you need items. not to mention the different enemy patterns.
Enemy patterns? Like what? Running towards you? Lol dude, OoT has literally everything you just named and x10 more. Like I said, the gameplay isn't even comparable.

>it was more than a simple refinement, it was the pinnacle of that form. naturally I wouldn't expect OoT to master a new form to the same extent, although its use of 3d is quite good.
OoT mastered both the classic Zelda formula as well as an entire new "form". ALttP was, as stated, a refinement.

>that's true about secrets, like I said, it's been awhile. that was just one example of all the details they put into it.
Okay, but your original statement indicates that ALttP somehow has more secrets or intricate details when in fact this is objectively false in every way. ALttP has secrets, sure, just not even close to as many as OoT.

>I'll admit, OoT is bigger and has more stuff and variety. that doesn't necessarily make it decisively superior as a game.
Except your argument has, up until this point, hinged on the concept that ALttP was a better game at least partially because of these reasons, but now that we've established OoT as decisively being the bigger and deeper game, what objective reasons can you actually give for why ALttP is better other than "I just like it more"?

>>4158657
>sweetie

>>4158951
>what does that even mean?
what I mean is that there's no sense of filler or vacancy in LttP's content. all the items have their uses, all the content is there for a reason and improves the final product.

>Enemy patterns? Like what? Running towards you?
there's alot of variety there actually. enemies run at you, go around the room, jump away from your attacks, derp around, etc. also your slashes sometimes push you away and you have to take that into account. that's not even all of it, but like I said, they took a seemingly simple system and did alot with it.

>OoT mastered both the classic Zelda formula as well as an entire new "form".
OoT is a bit too different from Zelda1 to be in the 'classic Zelda formula'. it's action-adventure, but other than that it's quite different. it doesn't seem like perfection of 3d although I wouldnt hold that against it.

I'm not sure if OoT has MORE secrets. they might be even or close to it.

I'm arguing that LttP is not significantly inferior because of those factors. it does fairly well in them, considering its limits, even if OoT does things on a bigger scale (as I'd expect from an n64 game).

as I said before, given the very different formats, comparison is difficult. given what they squeezed out of their respective formats, LttP did the better job. that's the most objective comparison I can come up with, much else is subjective.

Although I take the side of OoT in the OoT vs LttP debate, I want to make it clear that I don't adhere to a simple bigger = better philosophy. Otherwise I'd have to admit that Breath of the Wild or any other Joe Schmoe modern sandbox game is better than OoT just because it's bigger. But I certainly don't feel that way.

But if someone wants to argue that LttP is better because of "scope", then yeah, I'll absolutely point out that OoT was bigger.

>>4158987
I think you answered both mine and another anon's questions, but anyway.

>what I mean is that there's no sense of filler or vacancy in LttP's content. all the items have their uses, all the content is there for a reason and improves the final product.
What are you talking about? All the tool items in OoT have tons of uses as well. The only items I can think of which aren't extensively used are the optional items like Farore's Wind, and even those can be handy depending on how you like to play.

>there's alot of variety there actually. enemies run at you, go around the room, jump away from your attacks, derp around, etc. also your slashes sometimes push you away and you have to take that into account. that's not even all of it, but like I said, they took a seemingly simple system and did alot with it.
Everything you just described is basically the enemy reacting to your movements by moving in a different direction. That pales in comparison to the things that enemies in OoT do. The fight against the two Lizards in Dodongo's Cavern or the Iron Knuckles later in the game are far more engrossing than anything in ALttP.

>OoT is a bit too different from Zelda1 to be in the 'classic Zelda formula'. it's action-adventure, but other than that it's quite different. it doesn't seem like perfection of 3d although I wouldnt hold that against it.
What exactly about OoT is not classic or vastly different from older games? It's 3D, that's it. Everything else that's "different" about it really boils down to "improved".

>I'm not sure if OoT has MORE secrets. they might be even or close to it.
You might not be sure, but I am. And no, ALttP is not even close. Go do a google search for some of OoT's secrets if you don't believe me, there are, as I said, hundreds.

>that's the most objective comparison I can come up with, much else is subjective.
A big pile of nothing.

>>4158991
>But if someone wants to argue that LttP is better because of "scope"
I wouldn't say that. my point was that LttPs scope takes nothing away from it, and doesn't make it inferior to OoT. yes, OoT is bigger and has more stuff, but that isn't an unassailable proof of superiority.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1pJYR2MjPk

This promo video alone is better than any game produced on the PS1 or Saturn. N64 was the king of its gen.

>>4159000
>What are you talking about? All the tool items in OoT have tons of uses as well. The only items I can think of which aren't extensively used are the optional items like Farore's Wind, and even those can be handy depending on how you like to play.
LttP items are more consistently useful, though.

>Everything you just described is basically the enemy reacting to your movements by moving in a different direction. That pales in comparison to the things that enemies in OoT do. The fight against the two Lizards in Dodongo's Cavern or the Iron Knuckles later in the game are far more engrossing than anything in ALttP.
not just different directions, but different overall patterns of movement. compare helmasaurs, wizzrobes, turtles, skeletons, those jumping things, the bombers, thieves, etc. they all act differently. it has the effect of doing more with less.

>What exactly about OoT is not classic or vastly different from older games? It's 3D, that's it. Everything else that's "different" about it really boils down to "improved".
the top-down perspective was important for alot of the puzzles and gameplay of Zelda 1 and 3. the shift to 3d in itself makes it a very different game with different qualities. different is not necessarily better. in some ways it's better, in other ways not.

>secrets
I'll take your word for it.

>A big pile of nothing.
that's not how I'd describe an overall better use of resources and assets.

>>4159024
>LttP items are more consistently useful, though.
You keep saying that but it doesn't make it true. Give me examples, what items in OoT do you feel are under-utilized?

>not just different directions, but different overall patterns of movement. compare helmasaurs, wizzrobes, turtles, skeletons, those jumping things, the bombers, thieves, etc. they all act differently. it has the effect of doing more with less.
Doing more with less, doing more with less... again, you keep saying this, and it means fuck all. The simple fact of the matter is that enemes in OoT are vastly more advanced and intuitive than those found in ALttP, and there's not particularly special about ALttP's enemies/AI to begin with.

>the top-down perspective was important for alot of the puzzles and gameplay of Zelda 1 and 3. the shift to 3d in itself makes it a very different game with different qualities. different is not necessarily better. in some ways it's better, in other ways not.
You keep doing the same thing. I ask you to give me an example of what you're talking about and you basically say "because, it's different". No shit, seeing a puzzle from a top-down perspective and seeing it in full 3D is, by definition, different. That doesn't mean the way you're actually solving the puzzles or the gameplay itself is vastly different. You're still pushing blocks, shooting switches, killing enemies to unlock doors, etc. It's the same basic gameplay dude, OoT just did it better.

>that's not how I'd describe an overall better use of resources and assets.
This pretty much sums up your argument. "I can't actually name any reasons for why ALttP is better, but it did more with less". How was ALttP a "better use of resources and assets"? Why do you keep spewing these meaningless garbage buzz phrases? This isn't an argument dude, just because you like ALttP more for aesthetic qualities doesn't mean it made "better use" of anything.

>>4159004
Lmao you could tell that even if they were fighting commercially companys were having a good time making fun of each other in 5th gen.
I agree the N64 is my personal favourite of that gen.

>>4158669
You're really desperate for anything to put on a list when considering the Rare shit anything else than decent.
I can't see (not even children) being entertained with going back and forth on a virtual map looking for coins, flowers, bananas, pokemons. This would be true speaking of the remaining n64 games if those awesome racing (and Treasure) games didn't exist.

>>4159043
Yeah, the rivalry back then was intense but a lot more light-hearted and fun. I really wish they still made commercials like this today, but everything is so serious and edgy now. Those days are long past. Nintendo in particular had some really fucking great commercials especially for N64. There was one with a cross-dressing dad who offered to buy off his son with games. That shit would trigger massive butthurt these days. What a great fucking time in history.

>>4159029
like I said, it's been years since I last played OoT, and LttP is fresher in my memory. pardon me for any errors.

>You keep saying that but it doesn't make it true. Give me examples, what items in OoT do you feel are under-utilized?
bombchus is one example. but it's not so much under-utilization for OoT, its usefulness in LttP. the bombos medallion isnt required, but it can melt kholdstares shell. ether can freeze stuff, open the swamp, and light up invisible paths, etc.

>Doing more with less, doing more with less... again, you keep saying this, and it means fuck all. The simple fact of the matter is that enemes in OoT are vastly more advanced and intuitive than those found in ALttP, and there's not particularly special about ALttP's enemies/AI to begin with.
I wouldn't say vastly more advanced. a 3d environment gives you more room to maneuver, that's all.

>OoT just did it better.
you cannot prove this.

>This pretty much sums up your argument. "I can't actually name any reasons for why ALttP is better, but it did more with less". How was ALttP a "better use of resources and assets"? Why do you keep spewing these meaningless garbage buzz phrases? This isn't an argument dude, just because you like ALttP more for aesthetic qualities doesn't mean it made "better use" of anything.
you choose not to understand. LttP pushed the top-down 2d format to the maximum. OoT did not have the same exacting craftsmanship in every part of the game. nothing against it, it's very good at what it is, but I think LttP outshines it in that regard.

for example, warping between worlds to open up swamp palace or find heart pieces, the ice palace puzzle, the confusion of skull woods, etc. it was all really cleverly done.

>This isn't an argument dude,
I didn't intend to argue, I just got sucked in, as always.

>>4159045
>You're really desperate for anything to put on a list when considering the Rare shit anything else than decent.
Lmao, no kiddo, you're just desperate to dismiss anything you can because you never owned an N64 and you're a sour Sony cheerleader. In fact, I can tell that you don't even know what the fuck what you're talking about because of this statement:
>I can't see (not even children) being entertained with going back and forth on a virtual map looking for coins, flowers, bananas, pokemons
You just distilled that entire list of 20+ fantastic games into this mind-numbingly retarded opinion. Bravo. Of all the games I mentioned, about 3 of them meet the autistic criteria you just outlined. I'm not sure what kind of worthless faggot can't derive enjoyment from a game like Super Mario 64 anyway, but there are plenty of other games for "hardcore" fellows like yourself. I guess blowing demons into bloody giblets in DOOM 64, destroying entire cities in Blast Corps, having 1000mph death races in F-Zero X and controlling entire armies in Ogre Battle 64 is the same thing as hunting for flowers to you. What a douche bag.

>>4159045
That anon is missing some other great games too but with your mindset you could just say that kids today wouldn't have any fun today just by pressing buttons and watching a screen like statues just to go from A to B.
Every game is about collecting, pressing or acquiring something to finish the game using the options you have.
Trying to make it sound simple and childish doesn't make any point. Banjo kazooie for example have a lot of collecting but it's built around the levels and targets they created. It doesn't feel like a task and it feels more like exploring.
>collecting is bad in plattaform games but it's totally okay when rpg's do it.

>>4159050
>bombchus is one example.
Bombchus aren't any less utilized than the super bomb in ALttP, and they are necessary for completing at least one dungeon and very helpful in fights. Now if you want to get into the additional uses that items provide outside of dungeon-related utility, OoT still blows ALttP out of the water. The Megaton Hammer, for example, can uproot deku scrubs, stun enemies, kill multiple enemies at once, destroys rocks, flip enemies over, etc. And that is one of the less used items in the game. Like I said, outside of maybe Farore's Wind and a few other completely optional items, there is nothing in OoT that doesn't have many uses.

>I wouldn't say vastly more advanced. a 3d environment gives you more room to maneuver, that's all.
"More room to maneuver"... yes, like being able to climb things, jump onto things, move vertically, attack enemies above and below you, etc. That sounds quite a bit more advanced to me.

>you cannot prove this.
I don't need to "prove" anything. It's self-evident. The only way in which OoT didn't do it better is if you subjectively disagree that, for example, a particular puzzle in OoT isn't as fun/easy/interesting as a particular puzzle in ALttP. Like I said, you might "prefer" something about ALttP, but from a purely objective standpoint, OoT did literally eveything that ALttP did, but more easily and with more depth. There is nothing in ALttP that you can point to and say "Hey, OoT doesn't have that!" or "Hey, OoT did that worse!". OoT had everything and did everything better.

>you choose not to understand.
No, you just choose not to provide an actual argument. You KEEP doing the same thing. "LttP pushed the top-down format", "OoT did not have the same craftsmanship". Bull fucking shit. All you're doing is saying it didn't, you're not saying why. I ask you again, provide me with examples. What is your concrete evidence for what ALttP did better than OoT? What in OoT was half-assed compared to ALttP?

>>4159063
Sonydrones are cancer.

>>4158673
Ahem.

>>4159097
>Sonydrones are cancer.
They really are, but frankly, I understand it. You see, the PS1 sold 100m+ units, so many kids grew up with the PS1 as their first console. They were treated to a slew of garbage wannabe platformers, realistic racers and SNES-era JRPGs. As a result, they actually believe these games are fun, and that anything with color, creativity or imagination is actually just a "Mario game". Having no experience actually playing an N64, or very little, they delude themselves into believing that the N64 is made for children because of one single game (SM64), and that the PS1 was actually a better console because it had a truckload of shit games and "mature" experiences. Any time you actually give them examples of games like Perfect Dark which might meet their, uh... "refined" tastes, they simply choose to ignore you and continue blabbering about how JRPGs are the only genre that matters and that Crash Bandicoot is the best platformer ever made. It's a sickness, really.

>>4159063
In my other post I acknowledged some good games. This doesn't change the Rare's mediocre output - the fps games are ok.
I also dislike SM64, and yet I can accept it's good.

>Lmao, no kiddo, you're just desperate to dismiss anything you can because you never owned an N64 and you're a sour Sony cheerleader
hmm no. Sorry. I don't give two fucks about rpgs either.

>>4159110
The crash series is actually really good though, anyone who loves platformers should play them

>>4159130
>Rare
>"mediocre"
Lol yeah, like I thought, your opinion is trash.

>>4159132
Shut up, Sony cheeleader ;)

>>4159096
the super bomb was a very specialized item and not part of the regular inventory.

as for item uses, I don't see how that's very different from the hammer pounding down stakes, flipping turtles, breaking a boss' defense, shattering frozen enemies for magic, and providing another option for attack.

>That sounds quite a bit more advanced to me.
that's based on the inherent differences between 2d and 3d. Mario 64 lets you do more complex platforming than the older marios, that doesn't prove that it's innately superior. keep in mind that we're comparing different formats.

>but more easily and with more depth.
I recall the water temple being rather tedious, so I wouldn't call that 'more easily'. as for depth, there's plenty of content and strategy in LttP, so it's not a decisive difference.

>"Hey, OoT doesn't have that!"
what about different floors that affect your movement (ice, treadmills)? that might not be a big thing, but it's something. naturally it makes more sense in the LttP format. that's what I mean by different formats having different pros and cons.

>What is your concrete evidence for what ALttP did better than OoT?
I've already discussed this. you seem to be arguing that 3d is inherently better than 2d, which I don't agree with. they are 2 different approaches. it's not like smb3 is garbage because it's flat. given the constraints and limits of their respective formats, LttP accomplished more imo.

>>4159139
The only consoles I've ever owned were Sega

>>4159159
>"The Crash series is really good"
>I've only owned Sega consoles

>>4159164
I played the remakes

>>4159173
>I've only owned Sega consoles
>I played the remakes (which are only available on PS4)

>>4159173
kys pham

>>4159090
Mario64 has some platforming challenges and the gameplay has some depth. Banjo games feel like you're collecting things just to allow to collect more things later. Most of time I'm just wandering through an open area.

>Every game is about collecting, pressing or acquiring something to finish the game using the options you have.
Pretty reductive, and false. I can play some shmups of score (what could be considered collecting by some), but I also can play them for survival. Competitive games also don't fall on that category.

>collecting is bad in plattaform games but it's totally okay when rpg's do it
it's even worse in rpgs.

>>4159173
>>4159159
>>4159132
>Sony cockroaches are now false-flagging as Sega fans

>>4159183
You are being reductive with your posts sonydrone. You completely dismiss a lot of good games recomended by the other anon.

Well in shmups you just got to press the same button to shoot or push left of right to avoid being shot! Kids wont like that now! they are a good indicator of what is fun today! things like mobile gaming and touchscreens!
THATS EVERYTHING SHMUPS HAVE TO OFFER? I COMPLETELY DONT CARE ABOUT MUSIC, VISUALS, MOVEMENTS OR EVEN FUN!!

>>4159143
>what about different floors that affect your movement (ice, treadmills)?
OOT has both of these. Off the top of my head there was a treadmill in the kakariko windmill and low-friction floor in the ice cavern. Also, the hover boots item have a similar effect to ice.

>>4159212
>recomended by the other anon
>other
^-^

Shmups are casual trash!!! Thankfully some of them have story to get me entertained.

>as for item uses.
It isn't any different, but the point is that you're trying to make it seem like the tools in OoT are somehow less useful than those in ALttP when this is objectively wrong. OoT has a few under-utilized items, so does ALttP, but OoT has more items in total anyway.

>that's based on the inherent differences between 2d and 3d
We're debating which game is more advanced, and whether OoT is more advanced due to good game design, 3D graphics or both, does not matter. What matters is that the gameplay in ALttP is more limited, end of story.

>I recall the water temple being rather tedious,
You're missing the point. You were arguing that 3D Zelda somehow neglects what made the 2D Zelda games special by nature of being 3D, and I am saying that this is false because the format is identical, the 3D engine simply gives you more. Regardless of whether you are pushing a block onto a button in 2D or 3D does not matter, it's the same gameplay style.

>what about different floors
Uh, OoT has that. Have you ever been in the ice dungeon?

>I've already discussed this
No, 3D does not inherently mean a better game than 2D. However, 3D inherently provides more freedom. In this case, the 3D game is better because it has everything the 2D game has and more. Again, you keep saying that ALttP is somehow a better game because it made good use of its restrictions, but you are simultaneously saying that OoT did not, as if OoT did not make good use of the 3D format. I keep asking you to provide me with examples of how this is the case, and you don't.

In this point in the argument, it's clear to me that you are either A) biased against OoT, or B) simply haven't played the game enough to make informed statements. Assuming you're even still in this thread, I will let you get the last word in, because frankly there's no point in debating this when you're just going to repeat yourself ad nauseum and refuse to provide actual points.

>>4159282
Oops, meant this for >>4159143

>>4154572
>adding banjo tooie
>instead of banjo kazooie
are you fucking mental ?

>>4159110
I mean I get what you're saying and I sympathize, but you can't seriously say that Crash, Spyro, and Ape Escape "lack color, creativity, and imagination".

>>4159293
I like Tooie waaaaaaay better than BK. Fuck, I liked DK64 better than BK. I just never thought that BK was all that great. Come at me.

>>4159306
I guess you really have a hardon for pointless backtracking and bloated worlds with poor design that have nothing to do but collect stuff in them for the most part...

>it's another Nintendofags think they have an underdog opinion episode
man change the channel

>>4159302
>I mean I get what you're saying and I sympathize, but you can't seriously say that Crash, Spyro, and Ape Escape "lack color, creativity, and imagination".
You picked three semi-popular PS1 games that somewhat resemble this description and are now pretending that PS1 owners don't attack N64 for these qualities. Just because the PS1 has a few games with color and imagination does not mean that N64 aren't attacked for having more of the same, and frankly, I wouldn't consider a game about a generic mascot or a dragon to be particularly creative or imaginative, nor more colorful than SM64/BK given the more muted color palette present in both games. The point still stands.

>>4159349
>it's another Nintendofags think they have an underdog opinion episode
Lmao, why is it that every time the better console gets brought up, Sony ponies have a fucking meltdown? Calm down faggot child.

>>4159306
>I like Tooie waaaaaaay better than BK. Fuck, I liked DK64 better than BK. I just never thought that BK was all that great. Come at me.
You're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is shit.
>Fuck, I liked DK64 better than BK
Yeah, like I said, shit.

>>4159361
>proving my point
This thread is /pol/-tier

>>4159227
true, like I said it's been awhile. I would still say LttP got more use out of that feature.

>more advanced
of course a game that came later, on a system with more powerful hardware, will be more technically advanced. and of course the 3d format inherently gives you more freedom.

>the format is identical, the 3D engine simply gives you more.
not really. what about finding the big key in thieves town, figuring out where you need to transition screens? or the checkerboard cave, or areas intentionally obscured by overhead walkways, and bossfights like agahnim, helmasaur king, mothula, blind, ganon etc. that would play out differently in 3d. 2d has a different feel and playstyle overall. 3d does not simply build on 2d -- in some ways it does, in other ways it changes things and takes away 2d qualities.

>as if OoT did not make good use of the 3D format.
I wouldn't say this exactly. it made decent use of the format, but it didn't really excel in its format the way LttP did. it's hard to pin it down, just my overall experience.

>I will let you get the last word in
idk why I keep getting sucked into these arguments, but it happens.

to conclude: both OoT and LttP are excellent games. I personally think LttP is superior to some extent because of overall aesthetics, experience, and because it made the most intelligent use of its resources. the quality of a game doesn't depend entirely on how technically advanced it is, ie breath of the wild is not necessarily better than OoT. I'm more impressed by what they did with LttP, given what they had, than with OoT. I still respect OoT, though, and when I said heresy I was mostly joking.

>>4159227
true, like I said it's been awhile. I would still say LttP got more use out of that feature.

>>4159282
>more advanced
of course a game that came later, on a system with more powerful hardware, will be more technically advanced. and of course the 3d format inherently gives you more freedom.

>the format is identical, the 3D engine simply gives you more.
not really. what about finding the big key in thieves town, figuring out where you need to transition screens? or the checkerboard cave, or areas intentionally obscured by overhead walkways, and bossfights like agahnim, helmasaur king, mothula, blind, ganon etc. that would play out differently in 3d. 2d has a different feel and playstyle overall. 3d does not simply build on 2d -- in some ways it does, in other ways it changes things and takes away 2d qualities.

>as if OoT did not make good use of the 3D format.
I wouldn't say this exactly. it made decent use of the format, but it didn't really excel in its format the way LttP did. it's hard to pin it down, just my overall experience.

>I will let you get the last word in
idk why I keep getting sucked into these arguments, but it happens.

to conclude: both OoT and LttP are excellent games. I personally think LttP is superior to some extent because of overall aesthetics, experience, and because it made the most intelligent use of its resources. the quality of a game doesn't depend entirely on how technically advanced it is, ie breath of the wild is not necessarily better than OoT. I'm more impressed by what they did with LttP, given what they had, than with OoT. I still respect OoT, though, and when I said heresy I was mostly joking.

>>4159370
>"proving my point"
>actually just proving that you're a faggot, as suspected
As usual, the Sonyfriend got upset because his small, under-developed mind cannot comprehend the thought of anyone preferring a console comprised of games that aren't shovelware or JRPGs.

>>4159380
Where have I shown any preference towards Sony? I own no Sony consoles, this is like how /pol/ calls everyone shills. Jesus.

>>4159408
Anon, you cannot possibly be retarded enough to believe that I don't think you prefer Sony. You clearly said that liking the N64 was an "underdog opinion", what the fuck do you think that means? Either you're a degenerate Sega burnout or a Sony shitter, and I'm going to take and guess and say Sony considering the fact that casting your vote in favor of Saturn as the better console would be the true "underdog opinion". Stop playing retarded.

>>4159419
I said that N64 fans think they have an underdog opinion, even though a lot of people agree with you according to this thread, The Sony fans don't even want to argue with you because of this behaviour. Maybe that's why the N64 upsets a lot of people when it is brought up, and not because of 20 year old console wars.

>>4159427
>The Sony fans don't even want to argue with you because of this behaviour.
Lmao look at this pseudo-intellectual faggot and laugh. You're on 4chan retard, if you think ponies don't love to argue about their favorite console you need to open your eyes or go the fuck back to redd1t, the land of sterile opinions.

>Maybe that's why the N64 upsets a lot of people when it is brought up, and not because of 20 year old console wars.
And yet you took the time out of your day to get upset about it and post your worthless non-opinion. "lmao hurr durr it's a greentext episode, change channel haha xD". I get it, you're a pony masquerading as a third party and pretending that you're too good to engage in the very discussions you are currently engaged in. Nobody cares and you sound like a limp dick. Just stop.

>>4159438
jesus fucking christ you're desperate to pin an identity on me

>>4159440
>jesus fucking christ you're desperate to pin an identity on me
>first post is literally calling anyone who likes the N64 a "Nintenfag with an underdog opinion"

>>4159441
No, I was calling this thread a circljerk

>>4159442
your a circeljerk

>>4159282
faggot

>>4159456
Great argument. What exactly, in your own autistic words, do you disagree with?

>>4159463
your existence

>>4159441
He was just making a post on what are some other good N64 games.

Take your consolewar faggotry to >>>/v/ , This is /vr/.

>>4159463
your existence

>>4154879
Everyone knows the cube was significantly more powerful, cherry pick all you want tard

>>4158928
I love the paper mario rpgs, but its just hard for me to call them rpgs.

>>4159427
The thing is, everytime there's a N64 thread (for example, this one), people who criticize it always compare it to the PS, you barely see people mentioning Saturn or PC on these threads. And mind you, if there is a platform that actually did graphics better than N64 is PC, not PS. There's some quarrel between Quake vs Goldeneye, but who knows if these aren't just Sony fans who played Quake on PS and are trying to pass as PC users.
Also, Sony fanbase is known to be one of the worst when it comes to console war shitposting.

You put 2 and 2 together.

Pokemon go

5th gen was pretty weak desu. Saturn and n64 had less the a dozen great titles each. Ps1 had probs about 30. I dont hate the n64 at all, its fans on the other hand are delusional idiots.

>>4159760
PC was odd in the 90s, it was definitely the superior platform in terms of tech but it didn't have many famous IPs and there wasn't a central resource detailing which parts worked with which etc, and it wasn't very popular in the US either, but britfags and latin americans started early and I doubt very many post in these threads

>>4154572
it's funny. as a game dk 64 was pretty whatever, but I love it to this day because it's one of the most aesthetically pleasing games i've ever played. same with kirby 64.

>>4159760
>Also, Sony fanbase is known to be one of the worst when it comes to console war shitposting.
As if the Nintendo fanbase is any better, this thread being a pretty good example; they get provoked by you guys the same way you get provoked by them. In all honesty anyways, what happened with the N64 vs. the PS1 was, in some ways, the SMS vs. NES situation all over again. It seems however, that the N64 fanbase is a helluva lot more resistant to the fact that the N64's mediocre performance was simply due to Nintendo's fuckups.

>>4160985
>Saturn and n64 had less the a dozen great titles each. Ps1 had probs about 30.
I think that claim is mostly consistent with any retro gens in all honesty. I think the more modern gens is when this good-bad ratio leans more towards the former duse.

Bomberman 64 is the best game on the system.

Bomberman Hero is just ok.

Bomberman 64 2: The Second Attack I've never played cuz it's rare as fuck and i rarely bother to emulate games.

>>4161318
>the SMS vs. NES situation all over again. It seems however, that the N64 fanbase is a helluva lot more resistant to the fact that the N64's mediocre performance was simply due to Nintendo's fuckups.
Not a bad analogy, but N64 has way more popular games that sold millions, in Japan, USA and Europe. It only makes sense more people remember the N64 than the SMS, or that they discuss it more. Also, it's more recent.
I see the opposite, it seems like some people are resistant to see others enjoy a consoles they don't. I guess this can be said with most consoles and generations, but with N64 it really is a bit more notorious, and most of the time, it's evidently PS1 fans bashing the N64, not Sega or PC users.
And Saturn has its fanbase here on this board, yet whoops, the same thing happens on Saturn threads, it's full of PS fans bashing the system.

>>4161327
>Bomberman 64 is the best game on the system.
It's a good game, but no even close to the best on the system lmao

>>4161342
The SMS has more and arguably better platformers than the N64, though.

Also Phantasy Star > Paper Mario.

>>4161561
Nice bias.

>>4161729
>Need a hint? Call 1-800-CALL-2GT
How did these things work? Did they actually have someone sitting there from 9-5 waiting for calls?

>>4161327

for single player, bomberman hero is the best one. It's amazing.

for multiplayer, second attack is better than the others.

also, there is bomberman arcade edition. Bomberman 64 is the weakest one imo

>>4162210
>for single player, bomberman hero is the best one. It's amazing.
Fuck no, 64 has the best singleplayer overall of 64 games. Hero is overrated as hell.

>>4162239
*overall of the 64 games
proofread before you post, kids.

>>4157353
I honestly hate near every single 3d game of that time, at least aesthetically, be it cartoony or realistic looking, graphically this was the worst era for gaming we have ever had, meanwhile the 2d games that came out in this era are only surpassed by a rare few today

>>4157352
yes and no. the more realistic style games look like fucking shit, however I can play psychonauts and still like the aesthetic.

but let's play something older like blast corps on n64 and jesus is that bad. there are a few games that can do low poly and not look like shit, but they are rare and the exception.

>>4162190
It was a recording. Since you had to pay by the minute it could be a pain to wait to hear the part you needed.

>>4162239
At least we can agree both had amazing music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLU2JA1XBG8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkVTavDbJM4