/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4136454
I always thought the Doom and Quake maps were too otherworldly.

I prefer the level design in games like Duke3d and Blood. Looks more like places were real people live and work.

>>4136454
I can't.

>>4136467
Blood's start with Caleb coming out of the grave is really neat. Duke's start is good, too.

For some reason start.map is really cozy to me. It's just you, a shotgun, and an endless breeze. No monsters, and no threats unless you're going into the Hard portal.

>>4136879
I love the way the Nightmare difficulty is hidden.

>>4136467
To me it looks like Doom 2's maps are less visually detailed than Doom 1's

>>4136454
Unreal, half-life

>>4136454
>Now arriving at Sector C Test Labs and Control Facilities.

>>4136932
>half-life
fucking disgusting. the train ride is obnoxious and so is the entire intro up until you get the crowbar. thank god you can skip that shit when you're done with it the first time. in-game cutscene shit is AIDS. skippable cutscenes that don't cause load times or gtfo.

>>4136454
>three vaguely sinister looking brownish hallways

wow way to spook me man

>>4136947
did quake actually anticipate the brown and gloom trend?

>>4136942
Thanks for sharing your humble opinion. Edgelord.

>To escape. To escape.

>>4136971
Anticipate, or kick it off?

>>4136467
T H I S
H
I
S

>>4136932
>Unreal

Mein neger

>>4136467

but that's what i like about doom and quake. the alien atmosphere and abstract level design is the best part (second to the pace and movement)

>>4136454
Why don't you say what's supposed to be good about it first? At the time, it was a cool mini-showcase for the engine but no one is impressed by that today.

>>4136861
Duke E1L1 does a better job of showing off engine features while also being a great map that's fun to explore and play.

>>4136942
Half-Life's intro is annoying to replay, but that doesn't mean it's not a GOAT intro the first time. Still beats the pants off of most modern imitations.

>>4136932
Unreal's prison intro was nice with the explosions and all, but if you count the part where you step out from the ship and look at the outside, then it's unbeatable

>>4137148
This, it's surprisingly well done compared to the rest of the game

>>4136454
>Name a better FPS opening than this.

The opening in the Saturn version of Quake was better. It rotates the inside of an arena with the Lobotomy and Sega presents logos on the sides, while blasting the theme song at full blast.

It's a minor detail but I love it a lot.

Other than that, Duke3d first level was awesome. It summed up the entire games backstory, and end goal, all in one sentence. How many other games ever managed to do that?

>>4137127
you got to put things in perspective. comparing games that are well allowed to have a beer to new ones, well..every aspect has been improved and or perfected by some games. what matters is how revolutionary games were in their time. how much did they innovate, how much did they change 'gaming'

>>4136454
HL and Unreal intros are more memorable to me.

>>4137127
>but that doesn't mean it's not a GOAT intro the first time.
I never liked it, sorry. I've always been way too patrician for your cinematic shit. If I'm not playing the game is failing.

>>4137316
but you are playing the game

>>4137318
In a really shitty way.

>>4137316
>If I'm not playing the game is failing
No, it's being a different thing. Because games are not one thing. "Complex interaction is good" does not lead to "the experience should be 100% complex interaction all of the time". Maybe it's even better when you break it up with more cinematic bits. It sounds like ADHD to say otherwise, unless you're playing exclusively arcade shmups or something.

>>4137321
i disagree
the intro wouldn't have been memorable for me otherwise

>>4136936
This

>>4136942
>Complaining about wanting to skip cutscenes
Get out

>>4137592
>>4137594
>>4137609
no, you're literally all fucking faggots and part of the cancer destroying video games

>>4137623
because i like playing games and am not some poser elitist sperg?
i still play HL and quake 1-3 from time to time so i dont see how i'm killing anything

>>4137630
you're not a poser elitist sperg, just an average plebby sperg, well played

>>4136454

Well, it's definitely the best difficulty/level select screen

>>4137609
So you like unskippable cutscenes? How many cocks do you even have to suck to become such a gigantic faggot?

>>4136454
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCMh-88a2DI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lah4fUDlp0

Lucasarts knew how to open a game

>>4136467
I actually prefer the other-worldly level design. Gives that feeling that reality has been corrupted into labyrinthine dungeons by nightmarish monstrosities. And it opens up more room for creative level design concepts, where as trying to make every level like a real familiar place can be a bit limiting in that regard.

>>4137148
>>4137195
I still replay Unreal quite often. Just a few months ago a new HD mod was released, compatible with version 227. Great experience, highly recommended!

>>4136454
The jaguar alienvs predator until you realize that the entire game its like that.

>>4137918
I swear the first few missions would be good material for a Thief movie.

>>4136932
>Unreal

It definitely hits you hard with the atmosphere. Kinda reminded me of Metroid.

>>4137704
>a..am i cool and edgy yet guys? I talked about co..cocks and shieet.

>>4137918
Definitely one of the best tutorials in existence.

>>4138018
nice buzzwords dickhead

I live... Again.

>>4138121
>Filename
more like
>competent enemies with realistic firearms that people who are bad at videogames struggle with

Learning how to kill germans with potatoes is the only way to properly start a FPS

>>4136936
/thread

>>4138151
The AI is too dumb to turn and shoot at the same time so they had to give them superhuman aim and reflexes to make up for the fact that you can bunnyhop around them like a goofball and completely stop them from firing.

>>4138065
Says the mouth breather that has to scream about unskippable openings in a thread about game openings to feel in control of his life

Bite down on some live wires and post pic

>>4138158
>The AI is too dumb to turn and shoot at the same time
That's bullshit. It's also intentional on the developers part that cultists don't shoot at you while you're moving fast, no shit, otherwise they would shoot at you 24-7 and you wouldn't be able to move between cover with them in sight or ever encounter them openly without getting shot at.

AI in every classic FPS is dumb. Blood at least requires you to do a bit more than run into a room and just kill everything like the canon fodder it is.

How about you upload a single episode playthrough of Blood on Well Done and we'll see how good you are at jumping around like a retard? How about just E5M1 at least? inb4 excuses.

>>4138158
>superhuman aim and reflexes
what's this meme?

is this in some of the source ports? because I swear the cultists in the original game are comparatively easy.

the game does a good job at encouraging the player to duck and cover, which is enriching the gameplay.

>>4138212
What the fuck is your problem? Nobody is claiming bunnyhopping will make you invulnerable; only pointing out the flaw in the AI. If you try step out in front of a cultist while he's aware of you and already has facing, you're going to get shot wallhax style even if you sprint.

That webm exactly demonstrates the flaw. The shotgun cultists to the right can't even fire as you bounce past because they need to turn towards you. The fanatic with the tommygun on the left on other hand can fire at you because you're directly in front of him the whole time after rounding the corner and never trigger a change of facing. The only reason he stops is because of the hitstun when you shoot him.

>>4138220

They're easy because they're easy to cheese. If you take them like Doom mooks you're going to get your ass capped.

>>4138225
>Nobody is claiming bunnyhopping will make you invulnerable; only pointing out the flaw in the AI
It's not a flaw in the AI you tool, and it's not really about bunnyhopping, it's about moving fast so cultists can't line up a shot. No shit they're going to have a weakness, otherwise they will just blast at you 24-7 and you will never be able to move between cover.

>If you try step out in front of a cultist while he's aware of you and already has facing, you're going to get shot wallhax style even if you sprint.
Wrong again. Here I am sprinting with cultists in plain view immediately facing at me and they don't immediately fire 'wallhack style'

>never trigger a change of facing
except he's literally turning while I'm moving closer towards him while shooting. he would have kept shooting and turning (and probably have shot me) had I not shot at him and stunned him by it.

You imply that this gameplay is the norm, and that all one has to do is brainlessly 'jump around cultists' when like 90% of the game you're going to be playing tactically. What's more important than 'jumping around cultists' is actually dominating them by making them flinch and using weapons intelligently.

You keep trying to trivialise this gameplay and imply that this is all there is to it, yet you can't offer gameplay of your own. Let's see E5M1 on WD anon. That's just one level, what's the problem?

>>4138232
>If you take them like Doom mooks
Oh please. Doom 1 is the pissiest FPS there is. So is Doom 2 actually. They're only difficult if you play them on nightmare difficulty.

>>4138238
This. Besides Plutonia, you basically have to play pwads to get any real sense of challenge in Doom.

>>4138236
>Here I am sprinting with cultists in plain view

Which weren't aware of you yet or they would have already moved from their starting positions. Pretty much the only time they have a significant reaction delay even while facing is when they switch from idle to actively hunting. Then you proceed to circle and you can see the breaks in their animation as you're running the edge of their sprite rotation (except that dumb fuck at the back who's stuck throwing dynamite).

>never trigger a change of facing
>except he's literally turning

Read the very thing you quoted: No change of facing. If a cultist's sprite has to turn an increment, it can't fire immediately. This is uniquely a Blood problem. Doom doesn't have this problem. Duke3D (another Build game) doesn't have this problem. In these other games most monsters can still attack even if they're an increment off-center when they start the animation.

>>4136467
Doom II's are the worst offenders

>>4138232
it's almost as if different games encourage different playstyles.

>>4138254
> If a cultist's sprite has to turn an increment, it can't fire immediately.

Are you trying to imply that's somehow a bug and not a concious design?

> Duke3D (another Build game) doesn't have this problem.

In DN3D if you turn around hitscan enemies, sure they'll still be shooting and facing you, but they'll miss their shots most of the times. Pigcops are very easy to dodge that way; and Enforcers you can dodge most of their bullets that way.

In Doom 2 afaik the chaingunners fuck you up no matter what.

The only difference between Duke and Blood is that in Blood, there is a visual cue added to it, and it makes things more realistic than seeing every hitscanner sprites "rotate as you do while they shoot", which can get especially ridiculous in Doom

What you're calling a flaw (just because it's different than Doom, apparently) I call great design

>>4138158
as a game dev, this looks 95% intentional to me to simulate human behavior/reaction time and a fair challenge setting. A game is abysmal if hard AI means, it autoaims, because that is the default code you start with. Adding reaction time takes much more code and work.

Bests 3d shooter on this planet is Vampire Bloodlines the masquerade. Yes the shooting part is baaaaad in the game, but it's the best game on the planet, and I love that the shooting is bad in the game. It makes it perfect.

>>4138254
>No change of facing
So what? He's turning, while shooting at me, which is what you were trying to deny possible. And cultists will shoot at you while turning if they manage to get a shot, no shit, it depends on positioning, your speed, etc.

Duke 3D pig cops/enforcers are even easier to deal with than Blood's hitscanners since they're dodgeable af. Doom's hitscanners are even easier than Duke's considering they have the reaction times of an 80 year old man on non-NM.

>>4138274

/v/ and /vr/'s perpetual fear of hitscanners and general shitiness at classic FPS games make me want to make a series of Webms in games like Douk showing you how to to play like a retard and kill enemies like DN3D Enforcers and Revenants without shitting your pants in fear because they have attacks you can't dodge by slightly moving to the left or right.

/v/ and /vr/'s perpetual fear of hitscanners and general shittiness at classic FPS games make me want to make a series of Webms in games like Douk showing you how to not play like a retard and kill enemies like DN3D Enforcers and Revenants without shitting your pants in fear because they have attacks you can't dodge by slightly moving to the left or right.

>>4138254
>Pretty much the only time they have a significant reaction delay even while facing is when they switch from idle to actively hunting. Then you proceed to circle and you can see the breaks in their animation as you're running the edge of their sprite rotation (except that dumb fuck at the back who's stuck throwing dynamite).
This is a cabin full of cultists that don't shoot at me despite have direct los because I understand how the movement works. Apparently according to you this is a 'flaw' because they don't shoot since I'm moving? The fuck?

Usually people on this board parrot the important of movement in classic FPS so why is it so bad that it's in Blood as well?

>>4138290

It's because they're actually bad at FPS games and think they can stand still while occasionally strafing, like you can in Doom. Once you throw them into situations where decent movement is required (ie anything than isn't Doom 1's projectile-throwing enemies), they lose it and claim the game is poorly designed or unfair when in reality they're just bad.

>the thread about bullshit enemies starring the cultist is filled with people bitching about CM/GDX
>the thread about FPS openings is filled with people bitching about cultists

>>4136896
Yeah I thought that was really clever. And I like the little blurb about it in the manual.

>This difficulty is so nasty, we hid the portal so no one would wander in by mistake. If you find it, well, don't say we didn't warn you.

>>4137025
I'm going to have to go with this. It's lax on enemies but damn if the atmosphere isn't turned all the way up.
>That distant growling

>>4138302
Doom babbies

>>4139098
Yep, we have 15.

>>4138285

but revenants aren't hitscan

>>4138152
is CoD 2 even considered retro? I fuckin loved that game but i think it might be a little newer than whats considered retro, not sure

>beat the shit out of forty two-headed monstrosities
>flaming skull asks you if you're ready to die

>>4139291
Its definitely not retro, since CoD didnt exist until 2003.