/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4079217
Is this... dare I say it... a shill thread?

Will this batch be the latest hardware revision with embedded audio?

>>4079217
forgot link
https://www.videogameperfection.com/products/ossc-reserve/
>>4079220
it's not. i actually dont know anything about it aside from its a good 'scaler' (im aware its not the same as an xrgb mini and that its a line doubler, functions pretty much the same as one tho)

>>4079229
it appears so.

>>Convert analogue audio to digital DVI/HDMI *NEW* – Analogue audio from your retro games console will be converted to digital audio and injected into the HDMI/DVI output (requires compatible TV, processor or AV receiver. Analogue audio output is still available for setups where this is required).

anyone used this on a 4K tv?
I'm curious as to whether it's better to use line triple mode (since 720p scales neatly 4K as an integer) or line quintuple mode (since there's less upscaling required by the TV from 1200p to 4K).

Is the success rate pretty high when it comes to being able to use this with SNES on HDTV's?

Pre-ordered yesterday. I've already got a Framemeister but I'm interested to see how the OSSC stacks up against it. I've heard the OSSC isn't so great with certain SNES games though, causing loss of sync.

I've been thinking of getting a Supergun setup for the livingroom so me and my mates can blast some Neo Geo on the big screen, I think the lag-free OSSC would be perfect for that.

>>4079269
i've seem some youtube videos of an ossc being displayed on a 4k OLED LG hdtv. it looks really good. and that was in 5x line double mode.

>>4079276
>>I've heard the OSSC isn't so great with certain SNES games though, causing loss of sync.

is that so? havent heard about that do you know what games in particular this is effected by?

>>4079286
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=Super_NES

>A number of SNES games are compatible with the 256×240 optimal line triple mode, though this does not apply to every title. If you try this setting and the image appears to be missing pixels, your game is probably running in the SNES' horizontal hi-res (512×240) screen mode and is therefore not compatible.

Also it seems that certain displays just aren't compatible with the OSSC when it is outputting SNES. Hopefully this will be fixed some time in the future.

>>4079290
hmmm literaly the only reason I'm interested in an OSSC is for SNES. I'd hope it works with my favourite games on my TV

I could be tempted by a 4K framemeister if it ever exists

>>4079294
why just snes? i mean the snes is great but you're missing out on tons of excellent games like genesis, sega saturn games, all of which look amazing when scaled with the OSSC

the ossc works so good for 4k displays with its quinttuple line doubling. heres a video so you can see

https://youtu.be/KwE78lajIuY

>>4079294
marqs mentioned that he's created a custom firmware that works with the SNES however he's not sure if it can be integrated in the main firmware, but if you want the OSSC purely for SNES this may not be an issue for you.

>Speaking of SNES, I've tested a customized firmware with some timing-critical logic replaced with functionality tailored for SNES. Using that with SC-512N1 (set to minimum 50% bandwidth) has resulted to no sync issues compared to the standard fw which requires at least 125% BW for stable operation. More testing is still needed but for now it seems it could have solved the NES/SNES issue, although I'm not sure if that solution can be easily integrated to the standard fw.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52158&start=2190

>>4079312
I simply have no interest in those consoles. I grew up with my SNES and that's what I want to preserve and enhance.

>>4079313
So i could buy an OSSC now and apply the SNES specific firmware later? If so that's great. I wouldn't care about losing functionality for other consoles

>>4079317
>So i could buy an OSSC now and apply the SNES specific firmware later?

Technically yes, if you can get the custom firmware as I don't suppose it's been officially released. You would be best contacting Marqs through the Shmups forum.

>>4079323
cool, although if it works with my TV with stock firmware then it might be necessary to change. I've sen some pretty good results with SNES & OSSC posted around.

>>4079325
Of course, you may have no issues whatsoever. Hopefully not but at least there looks like there's a solution if you do.

>>4079312
That's good that it looks good on 4K with quintupling. i recall the makers of the OSSC saying quintupling was as high as it can go, so no native 4K is expected.

On 1080p TV's I think you have the option of 960p or cropped 1200p

Thoughts on the OSSC 'Wolf Edition'?
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59525

I get the feeling it won't ever be readily available, and since OSSC 1.6 now has digital audio I think the Wold won't be necessary

>>4079358
>OSSC 'Wolf Edition'
What's different about it? The component input?

>>4079360
supposedly a nicer layout, plus HDMI

How does OSSC work with a N64? Better than UltraHDMI?

How are these things for the Dreamcast 480p to 4k

>>4079473
You're basically using it as a vga to hdmi converter. I think it supports smpte resolution.

So you need a DVI to HDMI cable? And that can now transmit sound?

Also, what's a good SNES SCART cable to get?

>>4079290
That's only for the 256px optimized sampling mode. Obviously that's not going to work properly for games using 512px mode. Just use the generic sampling mode, it's plenty sharp.

>>4079360
The main differences are SPDIF audio input and the VGA input being fully filtered (not necessary for most sources you're likely to use it for, but might be convenient in some situations). Besides that, the board/port layout seems much tidier.

But yeah, I think that project will probably fizzle out now that the standard OSSC has HDMI.

>>4079540
frankly i'd want the whole unit to be hidden from sight. Hiding my power level in a sense. so layout seems irrelevant

are we to expect an OSSC 1.7? just trying to establish if there's a need to wait for something better

>>4079553
Since it's goal is to be universal it has a ways to go.

>>4079551
Well, the whole point is that the layout being neater makes it easier to tuck it out of sight.

>>4079559
in terms of hardware or firmware?

>>4079565
Maybe both. It doesn't really handle resolutions higher than 480p atm. It just transcodes to hdmi.

>>4079553
Not sure the current design can be taken much further. There's only so much you can do while maintaining near-zero input lag.

The one thing I would still like to see that might be doable is composite/S-video inputs, but I don't think marqs is too interested in that.

>>4079567
i see, sounds like hardware wise it can't really get any better from a snes perspective. I think I'll buy one today

>>4079578
Ya I think 240p is set if you want line doubling.

If I want to connect my OSSC to a VGA-only PC CRT, is this the active adaptor to use?

If so, I see a huge variation in prices. Will I see a huge difference in quality if I pick one of the chinkshit no-name ones over say a Startech or Lindy or are the guts pretty much identical?

>>4079583
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59860
The Tendak one seems to be the one to get.

>>4079585
Hmm, I was trying to avoid having to go HDMI first for simplicity.

Does anyone else think that maybe it's just an overall level shift on the unbranded adaptor compared to the others? I may pick one up anyway to have a play around with.

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=OSSC#Output_opt..

>240p/288p proc
>Controls line multiplication setting for 240p/288p modes. NOTE: 3x/4x/5x do not generate standard 720p/960p/1080p/1200p CEA/VESA modes (total lines, pixels per line), so they are generally accepted only by monitors and not by many consumer TVs.

I thought the point of the OSSC was to upscale for modern big HDTVs? Considering that most people will want to use this with 240p sources this really fucking sucks.

>>4079217
>if its worth the $200 asking price?

holy shit no. I could get 2-3 CRTs or other scalers from that.

>>4079995
>I could get 2-3 CRTs
Muh C-R-TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEs! Just accept that some people don't want to play on small CRTs these days when they have decent 40-60 inch LED TVs.

>other scalers
Those shitty boxes you can get from Amazon that introduce a shit ton of lag and can't handle motion without blurrying the image?

>>4080006
>Muh C-R-TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEs! Just accept that some people don't want to play on small CRTs these days when they have decent 40-60 inch LED TVs.

Then what the fuck are they doing on /vr/?

>>4080010
>/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4080010
To be honest I personally enjoy playing old games on tiny crt tellies more but that is not essential for enjoying /vr/etro games.

>>4079217
Will it emulate CRT effects, composite/RF artifacts and 4:3 aspect ratio?

If not, it is a deal breaker.

>>4080212
>Will it emulate...4:3 aspect ratio?

U WOT M8

>>4080249
Some old school consoles rendered the image in a different aspect ration, it was stretched and the signal went to the TV.

>>4081169
Oh the 8:7 thing?

No, that would require a non-integer scaler (which is not what the OSSC is) and would introduce all sorts of shimmering effects on horizontal movement as featured on the NES Classic.

>>4081192
>8:7
Yes.

I'd like to have an all-in-one solution or I will have to live with my CRTs forever.

>>4081169
>>4081192
You're both really confused. The OSSC, by default, samples at a 4:3 ratio. Whatever aspect ratio the console outputs will be preserved exactly as if it were displayed on a 4:3 tube. For consoles like the NES/SNES that output non-square pixels, the pixel edges won't be perfectly sharp, but you won't get any shimmering effects.

It also has optional "optimized" sampling modes that can be used to get a perfect-integer output PAR for razor-sharp pixel edges, but this may result in a slightly inaccurate overall aspect ratio depending on the console. Still no shimmering, however.

The NES Classic and certain other emulators actually use variable-width pixels. The overall aspect ratio is preserved and the pixel edges are perfectly sharp, but it results in horizontal shimmering. The OSSC doesn't do that.

>>4081258
thanks, so OSSC will give a nice 4:3 image with SNES?

And there's no 8:7 option?

>>4081317
With the OSSC your options for SNES are:

>Generic 4:3 sampling
Very slightly blurred pixel edges but accurate aspect ratio. This is also how the Framemeister works.

>Optimized 256x240 sampling
The OSSC tries to match the sampling timing with the console's pixel clock for perfect razor-sharp digitization. There are two aspect ratio options for this: 4:3 and 8:7. If you choose 4:3, it tries to get as close as it can to a 4:3 ratio with integer scaling; the aspect ratio won't be perfectly accurate to what you'd get on a CRT, but it'll be fairly close, especially if you can use the line x4 or x5 modes. If you choose 8:7 it'll just give you square pixels.

Most people don't bother with the optimized modes, because they're console-specific and can be fiddly to get working correctly with no jitter. The generic sampling mode already looks fantastic anyway.

>>4081332
sorry if this is a dumb question, but given that the SNES internal resolution is meant to be 256x224, does that mean there are small black bars at the top and bottom, regardless of aspect ratio option?

>>4081343
That's correct. Most (all?) commercial SNES games blank the top and bottom 8 lines of the frame. The SNES actually has a 239-line mode as well, but I'm not sure if any actual games ever made use of it.

>>4081356
thanks for clarifying; I'd heard that line quintuple mode on a 1080p TV would lead to cropping, but I imagine most of the cropped lines would be the black ones anyway

>>4081359
For SNES, yes. You're only losing 4 lines from the top and bottom of a 224-line frame, which is normally acceptable. The NES is where you have to be a bit more careful, since the NES draws the full 240-line frame and some developers were perhaps a bit too cavalier about following Nintendo's overscan guidelines.

>>4079312
did I fall for the PVM RGB meme

that honestly looks fucking beautiful

I get the impression with SNES you're playing roulette every time you plug it into a different tv?
Do you have to tinker with settings every time you try a different tv or is it a simple case of 'it works or it doesn't'

>>4081475
Have you never used a scaler before?

>>4081479
no

>>4081485
You'll soon find out why certain TVs have fanboys.

>>4079980
There's a lot of modern 4k displays that can handle the line doubling. The LG b6 and b7 series handle it like a champ.

>>4081808
The line quintuple* I mean.

>>4081406
Hey frisky. Good news is you can always sell your pvm for a good price since they're in such high demand right now. I believe the lg b6 55 inches is sitting at around $1000 right now. I'm tempted to get rid of my crt later this year once I get my ossc.

>buying one of these when they can't even sort out digital audio, sync and compatibility issues
I get that it's a hobbyist thing, but I'm not fucking paying 200+ for this shit. Call me when the people running the show are actually competent, and we have a framemeister killer on our hands.

>>4083079
By all means, don't buy it if it doesn't interest you. It's not for everyone.

The OSSC isn't trying to be a Framemeister killer; we already have the Framemeister as an all-in-one consumer-friendly upscaling solution. The OSSC is just a zero-lag line-doubler, more similar to the XRGB-3 in line-double mode. And it's probably the best one of those that has ever existed (the XRGB-3, for example, had even worse compatibility problems in line-double mode). The OSSC's x3/x4/x5 modes are something that no similar device has ever attempted before and it's basically just luck that they work at all.

If you want a real Framemeister killer, you'll need both an OSSC and an actual scaler like a VP50, or wait until someone besides Micomsoft makes a good video scaler designed to work with old game consoles.

>>4083137
I don't understand. What does line doubling/tripling etc. actually do compared to what the framemeister does?

>>4083160
The Framemeister uses a full-frame buffer and can do all sorts of image processing, zooming, scaling to arbitrary sizes, proper motion-adaptive deinterlacing, etc. Think of it like Photoshop for video. This fixes most compatibility problems because the picture and sync signals are being regenerated by the Framemeister before being sent to the TV (you can even have it do framerate conversion for consoles with odd framerates that certain TVs can't cope with, like the SNES). This process does add lag; about 20ms in the Framemeister's case, which is actually remarkably low considering all it can do.

The OSSC is a much simpler device: what comes in is what comes out, repeated several times. There's no lag with this method, but since you're only working on one line at a time, you're very limited in terms of what kinds of image processing you can apply. No zooming or non-integer scaling, you can only do quick bob deinterlacing, etc. Any consoles that put out very off-spec video signals (like the SNES) are likely to cause problems with particularly picky TVs. This generally works fine for line-doubling, but the more times you multiply the lines, the more likely you are to run into compatibility problems.

>>4083201
According to the wiki, most consumer TVs will only be able to handle 2x mode with 240p sources (so like all 8 and 16 bit consoles) which means the best you're going to get is a 480p output. That's not really that great. Obviously it'll work better with post-16 bit consoles but that's pretty crap for everyone wanting to get a nice upscale on their NESs and SNESs etc.

>>4084712
Plus the TV is going to have to do a job upscaling the 480p to the TV's native resolution which means more lag on the TV end, I'm finding it hard to see the benefits for the price.

>>4083201
>>4084712
>>4084719
I kinda agree with you guys in terms of the OSSC's usefulness combined with a flat panel display. There are too many drawbacks for me to recommend it for this application. What it does excel at, ironically enough, is output to high resolution CRT monitors.

Pic related is Mega CD line-quintupled to 1600x1200 and passed through an Extron DVS 510 acting as a makeshift DAC from DVI to VGA but with no further dcaling or other processing. Display is a 22" Lacie Electron Blue IV.

>>4084752
>dcaling
scaling*

Wider shot of above

>>4084719
It depends on your hardware really, two situations where using the OSSC might be better:
>You have a Display or an external scaler which scales faster than the Framemeister
>You have a Display with a bigger native resolution than what the Framemeister can output, so the Display has to scale it again
Both of these situations become more likely as technology advances

>>4084712
The wiki isn't the best source for that. Check out the compatibility report thread:
https://www.videogameperfection.com/forums/topic/tv-compatibility/
Most TVs will handle at least 3x. It's mainly Sony models that have trouble with it.

>>4084719
>>4084765
The thing is, most recent TVs have the exact same amount of lag for all digital sources, regardless of resolution. You would think that native-res signals would be less laggy, but in practice that's not normally the case. So the OSSC is still going to end up with about a frame less lag than the Framemeister.