/vr/ - Retro Games

No. Sprites are low-res, but they can look quite good when done well.
Low-res and photorealistic renders on the other hand...

I think Donkey Kong Country still looks fantastic... But a lot of other pre-rendered graphics, like those on the neo-geo, look like garbage compared to the pixel work on games like League Bowling, Metal Slug, or Shock Troopers.

>640x480
That's not the original resolution of that game, OP.
Also
>games age
Generation Z was a mistake.

Only DKC's have.

>>4046457

What about Super Mario RPG? I always thought they were kind of cut from the same cloth graphically speaking.

For me, it depends on how they are used.

DKC2 and Sonic 3D Blast still look great for me but I can't say the same to Pit Fighter or Killer Instinct. Imo, the art direction of these games is very ugly.

>>4046292
No, they look pretty ugly honestly. The only okay ones I can think of are DKC and SMRPG but even then compared to say, yoshi's island, they look nowhere near as good. Still, it has a charm to it. Stuff like all the shitty pc horror adventure games are more hilarious because of them. I'm playing smt: soul hackers now and seeing all these cheap cgi cutscenes in this cyberpunk game is just amazing to me.

>>4046471
I love KI's looks. Riptor's stage especially (that floor reflection effect).

The thing with this kind of graphics is that if you're not using a CRT and the original console displaying the image at 240p, then yeah it will look stretched and a lot of effects will be lost.

Don't wanna Google. What's prerendered mean?

>>4046489
the context of the thread itself isn't clue enough for you?

>>4046489
>Don't wanna Google.
Oh, aren't you special.

>>4046431
I was talking about graphics, not the game itself. I believe certain games can look dated if there's no good art direction.

>>4046563
Good art direction can look "dated" though, Renaissance paintings are definitely not modern, for example.
Also, it's highly subjective, that's why, repeat with me: Games do not age, we do!

>>4046292
>Aged
Sure is summer.

>>4046292
DKC still looks good apart from a few stages.

Even the sprites look good, they have a lot of frames and the low resolution actually hides the shitness of the original 3D renders.

>>4046431
You, and people like you are idiots who have issues comprehending basic concepts.

When people say "aged" and "dated" they mean that the thing in question have qualities that were accepted as adequate or good at the time only because there was nothing better available.

There are things that are universally good, like well crafted spritework of Metal Slug, movement momentum of Quake, platforming rythm of Mario games.

But there are also things that are only perceived as good because there's nothing better available at the time, and whe nyou look at them in retrospect, they are actually shitty. Dated. Not aged well.
Like gameplay mechanics of many Atari games, or early prerendered 3D (like Money For Nothing music video). With good art direction art of any technical level would be perceived as good. Without said art direction, it would only be perceived on its technical merits and recognised as a turd when people see better examples of what can be done with same tech.

Depends on the game. I think Super Mario RPG still looks good but the DKC games I always thought were ugly.

>>4046642
You can say that they are "dated" in a sense that they are not modern, true. But only because rarely anyone does keep track of the classicism art movement.

Everything in this game is atmospheric as can be.

>>4046698
Here's the thing, games still don't "age", they are still the exact same as they were on release. If you liked them back then, and now you think they're shit, then that means your taste changed over the years, not that the game changed. Saying that a game has "aged" is implying that the game has changed its natural state to something different, and that isn't true. "Dated" would be more appropriate. I know this is semantics, but semantics are an important part of human communication and "comprehending basic concepts", if you communicate like shit, don't tell your receptor that he's an idiot for misunderstanding you.
Anyway, it's not just that the semantic thing bothers me, it's that memesters and baiters use "aged" as a way to bash a game without actually giving any insight on why they think they're dated.

I agree with you about the art direction and I'll give you an easy example of how games don't "age" and how technology available at the time doesn't mean a game will be dated or not in the future:
I was alive back in the 90s, I experienced the hype when 5th gen finally arrived, I experienced the impressive Virtua games by Sega in the early 90s on the arcades, I was there when games like DKC were trying to do fake 3D on 2D with pre-rendered graphics.
DKC has pre-rendered graphics, I loved it back in the day, and still do now. The art direction is distinctive, you look at these palm trees on the first level and they're iconic. The whole scenery stands out, etc. When I played it for the first time in 1994, I was very impressed. Now, of course I'm not as wowed anymore, many other games did pre-rendered graphics as well, and many polygonal games with impressive graphics have come out in non-retro times, that's fine. That doesn't mean that when I go back to DKC, I think it looks worse than in 1994, or that "it was fine then, but shitty now". It's still the same game, looks the same, plays the same, sounds the same.
(cont)

>>4046728
Then take another game with pre-rendered graphics from around the same time: Rise of the Robots.
I had this on PC, the best version available.
I remember being impressed by the character effects, some things reminded me of Terminator, but I remember playing the game and always feeling it wasn't that good-- and it wasn't!
I only played it because I liked the idea of terminator-like Robots duking it out, and yeah, the pseudo 3D graphics looked impressive back then, but the game was always shit, I knew this as a kid, and I know it now. The art direction here isn't anything special, it's as generic as it gets, there's nothing about Rise of the Robots that makes you say "oh yeah, this is Rise of the Robots" (like the palms in DKC I mentioned above).
Rise of the Robots didn't "age", it was never anything special to begin with.

>>4046728
"Don't aged well" is an established expression. If you don't accept it as such, that is solely your issue and you can argue about it with foam on your mouth however you won't - that will not change the way people speak and what they mean when they say it.

And then there are faggots that argue about basic semantics as if they do not comprehend the meaning behind it at all, they may say that they are "merely pretending to be retarded", but we all know what that really means.

>>4046746
It's not really, you just read too much 4chan.
"Aged" is used for things that change its natural state over time, basically, everything with life, that is born and eventually dies, from humans to insects to even wood, not digital media.

I went to Mt. Everest when I was a kid and it was great, but I went again recently and it hasn't really aged very well, I've seen more impressive and higher mountains done in CGI on my vidya gemz.

>>4046753
>It's not really, you just read too much 4chan.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=movies+that+didn%27t+age+well

"Did not age well" is now commonly being said about any piece of media content.

But it seems that the concept is too complex for you to understand.

>>4046764
The results of that google search are: Reddit, Youtube and other web 2.0 kind of sites, it's not different from 4chan, maybe I should have said you spent too much time on the internet.

Maybe it's just that I'm not a native english speaker though, maybe it's normal to say that an inanimate object "ages", but it's not like that in other languages.
Dated? OK, Aged? Only for living/organic things.

>>4046764
>"Did not age well" is now commonly being said about any piece of media content.
language tend to degenerate and deteriorate with time.
that doesn't mean you should give up and use incorrect terms for everything just because everyone else (aka, kids on the internet) do.
kids nowadays call everything and anything a meme, that doesn't make them be right.

>>4046764
>>4046746
Saying something didn't age well is about as a shallow as you can get. A term used by only shitiest reviewers/commentators. Ie. the tards praising movies like Avatar.

>>4046775
>>4046770
>>4046767


Well, saying "Stuff that people used to like, but looking back now is not really all that good" is way too long.
Which is why people adopted aforementioned word combination for the purpose of representing the same meaning,

>>4046783
>"Stuff that people used to like, but looking back now is not really all that good"
In what way is this suppose to critical to the review? All this says is "Yep I'm smarter than those dummies that played this shit back then, btw buy the next CoD".

Again saying that aged garbage is the most shallow thing you can possibly do in a review or comment of something. You're incapable of looking at something in context? Because that's what you're doing.

>>4046292
Yeah

>>4046783

I think we might have some users who are completely bewildered by the phrase "what's up" or otherwise unironically respond to it with something like "the sky."

>>4046792
>what is general consensus

>>4046804
>general consensus
Has nothing to do with a critical review. If you want to go by general consensus then Avatar is the greatest achievement in entertainment we've ever had.

>>4046806
It's not like the whole point of "aging content" is that in 30 years people would look back and be bewildered how could anyone in their right mind could unironically like a steaming pile of dogshit that is Avatar, or anything.

>>4046810
You're proving my point about how shallow of a statement it is.

>>4046812
But that is how things are.

>>4046815
No that's how shit reviewers and mainstream is.

>>4046728
>semantics are somehow more important than the issue in question
>this whole thread
holy shit I havent seen so much faggotry in one place since pathetic attempts at forcing beltscroller meme

>>4046775
Who the fuck praises avatar?

>>4046941
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/avatar

>>4046853
You're wrong, he only mentioned semantics on the first part of the post, then he used 2 examples with real games about how the "age" thing is bullshit.

This guy is more sincere than people who use "aged": >>4046705
He always liked SMRPG, he never liked DKC, that's how it should be. It's okay if you like or you don't like DKC (or any other game), but if you used to like a game as a kid because of "grapheecks", then you grew up and because modern games look "better" and retro games "look like shit on my HD TV", then maybe this board isn't for you.

depends on the game

Reminder that we owe it all to Frédéric Raynal

Connect it to a FUCKING CRT TV and it looks great!!!

>waaaaaah, but that's too much work

Then don't complain. If something works bad when you're using it where you're not supposed to, then it's your fucking fault.

>>4047538
This. Only my CRT has aged in the years since...

>>4047184
>then you grew up and because modern games look "better" and retro games "look like shit on my HD TV"

I'm not who you are responding to, but it has nothing to do with how old games look on an HDTV or how much better modern games look. It has more to do with things that relied on a new gimmick and were popular or interesting simply due to the implementation of that gimmicky feature. As time goes on and that feature is no longer new, impressive, or unique, it is forced to rely on its own artistic merits (and/or gameplay merits). If it still holds up as fun and appealing, it has "aged well," if not, it has "aged poorly." For instance, old tech demos demonstrating then current 3D modelling and animation techniques might have been amazing at the time of production because "holy shit 3D" but had little other redeeming artistic or entertainment merit. As such, once that 3D tech becomes outdated, the demo no longer holds the same entertainment that it did - the entertainment was strictly linked to it being new and cutting edge.

For a more extreme example, look up "Record of a Sneeze."

>>4049078
>"Record of a Sneeze."
Different anon that was talking about the shallow shit of calling something aged.

"Record of a Sneeze." is still amazing in the context of itself. Just the making of the Kinetoscope is amazing let alone making the film. The film is milestone of technology.

>>4046292
All graphics are shit, it's just a matter of which graphics are current. Once new graphics come along, the current graphics become dated.

>>4046728
This is true. Everybody else is wrong and completely fucking retarded.

Back in the day I thought NES games, save for a few rare exceptions, looked like utter shit because of the limited color palette and extremely pixelated graphics. This was when NES graphics were as good as it got for home systems. I still feel this way today because it's true.

DKC looked great when it came out and still looks great.

Early low poly 3D games looked like dogshit and still do. I only played them for the novelty and because there was nothing else. I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole now but that's not because they aged, it's because now there are prettier alternatives.

Most people are too stupid to correctly observe reality.

>>4046764
>>4046770
Did not age well is used to describe females over 30 that have bad genetics and party a lot.

>>4047538
But what about muh crystal clear pixels just as the developers intended?

>>4049094
>I only played them for the novelty

...that's pretty much the core of the "aged poorly" argument.

>>4049087

>>4049116
Yeah but if you legitimately thought that shit was coolest back then, you are just an easily impressed idiot. Nothing aged poorly here. It's your perception that faulty. Those games were always shit, you just didn't realize it back then.

The games didn't age poorly, you just suffer from delayed realization of actual truth.

Games that were legitimately good back then are still just as good today. That's the core of the games don't age argument.

>>4046853
>reddit spacing

>>4049126
>>4049094
>early 3d is bad because I don't like it
I don't like you either.

>>4046292

Might as well ask if Ray Harryhausen's claymation has aged well. The honest answer is no, they haven't aged well -- technology has allowed for objectively more realistic possibilities. But some people, nonetheless, still appreciate Ray Harryhausen's work for what it is -- still incredibly artistic works that took a huge amount of time, energy, and passion to produce. In the end, people at the time were amazed by what they saw and those who pay attention to the nostalgia of their elders learn to adore the outdated-but-charming graphics of yesterday. It's kinda like how people still appreciate the Pyramids, or Stonehenge.

>>4049134
>If it's not new than it's outdates shit
K

>>4049131
>draw distance is shit tier
>controls are unresponsive and unprecise
>textures are either blurry (N64) or distorted (PS) as fuck

It's not personal preference, it's fact. You like shit.

>>4049134
>technology has allowed for objectively more realistic possibilities
Your point is moot because it isn't used for that. The new DKC games look more fake and cartoony than the old ones. Technology got more advanced but art direction has gotten much worse.

>>4049156
>draw distance is shit tier
>controls are unresponsive and unprecise
>textures are either blurry (N64) or distorted (PS) as fuck
So you're just terrible at 3d games.

>>4049161
>draw distance and texture quality are determined by player skill

What did you mean by that?

Also, controls were shit, don't lie.

>>4049168
Devs had to be smart.

>Also, controls were shit, don't lie.
They weren't at all.

>>4049171
>being forced to decrease draw distance because of technical limitations
>smart

>Not having a Z-buffer
>smart

>Adding bilinear smear filtering over low res textures resulting in a blurry mess
>smart

They were. Go play Tekken 1 or Resident Evil and tell me the controls aren't hell on earth.

>>4049168

This thread is shit, from people who apparently can't grasp idioms to the fact that this was most likely intended as a bait thread.

>>4049179
I like tank controls. Probably because I got good.

>>4049179
>RE
>bad controls
Underage detected.

>>4049182
>>4049192
Whether you like them or not, they are very unresponsive. That's just a fact, not even a value judgement. They definitely added difficulty and horror atmosphere by preventing you from dodging enemies as fast as you could react. They also added a learning curve as you do indeed get better at commandeering your tank character but they are still unresponsive by nature. That doesn't change.

>>4049198
>They also added a learning curve
Well what a terrible thing.

>>4049198

Oh look, another baby who can't wrap her brain around "tank" controls.

>>4049210
What do you think I fail to grasp about them?

>>4049198
>They definitely added difficulty and horror atmosphere by preventing you from dodging enemies as fast as you could react.

Uh, that was literally the point. Of course, if you weren't so shit, this wouldn't be an issue.

>>4046292
As long as youre playing on a crt they look fine. They look like jaggy, blurry shit in stunning high definition though

>>4049339
Came here to post this.

Everyone who says those games look bad is obviously playing them on an HD LCD.

>>4049078
>it has nothing to do with how old games look on an HDTV or how much better modern games look.
You are overestimating how simple-minded most people are.

>It has more to do with things that relied on a new gimmick and were popular or interesting simply due to the implementation of that gimmicky feature. As time goes on and that feature is no longer new, impressive, or unique, it is forced to rely on its own artistic merits (and/or gameplay merits).
Right, and this guy already explained it better than you with 2 examples:
>>4046728
>>4046741

>If it still holds up as fun and appealing, it has "aged well," if not, it has "aged poorly."
Well, again, the whole "aged" thing is wrong and only serve as baiting, same as "overrated", people just use these terms to bait other people or to trash games they don't like/never played.
Games don't age, that's why it's possible that some people (like >>4046705) might have never liked DKC, not even back in the day. That doesn't mean DKC "aged" badly or not, it means different people have different tastes and ways of appreciate things.

But yeah, most of the time you see people saying "aged badly" is just people playing SD games on HDTVs, it's the most common case, other than baiting.

>>4046292
DKCs look great.

I like the look of Blade Runner, RE2&3, REmake.

>>4049126
>>4049156
>>4049168

You know, most people enjoyed those things when they were coming out because it was the new thing. You're right, there are prettier alternatives now, but back then everyone leaped at the thought of 3D. It was the new thing.

Speaking of, saying that if someone liked that when it was the new thing coming out makes them an easily impressed idiot... You either weren't there or you just happen to be the pickiest person alive. Oh, and saying that all that 3D sucked then? Yeah, that really tells me you weren't there, because we didn't HAVE prettier alternatives. What was coming out were the options. It's not like now where we have over 40K titles to choose from on Steam or whatever else.

>arguing about /vr/ about things aging/dating
kek

This entire board is dedicated to staying in the past...like hell they'd admit to those.

>>4046467
Mario RPG's have clearly been touched up a lot after the fact, by talented Japanese sprite artists instead of the Euro hacks at Rare

>>4050041
I don't think anybody here will have any problem admiting FMV games were a product of its time though.

The thing is, when some youngster who just played DKC on his flatscreen at 720p then goes online saying DKC has "aged", then yeah, he deserves the bashing.

>>4049653
You really don't think that the player is influenced by games that were released after a given game?

>>4046292
>>4046471
I started a thread here last year asking if there was any chance the assets for DKC were saved. I'd love to see a hi-res update to the game, with everything else being the same

The gameplay sure didn't. You can tell they went for broke on the presentation over the stiff and wonky controls and gameplay of those damn games. They were the first games that tested the water of the freaking mid-90s onwards style over substance bullshit that ruined gaming.