/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4040436
composite is how the developers intended it

Because RGB is near irrelevant for a TV. Especially in a 1st world country like America were using a TV as a computer monitor was rare. Nothing really used it.

Svideo was the best relevant cable.

>>4040442
>Because RGB is near irrelevant for a TV
Yeah, was only used by console, VCR and DVD player
REALLY irrelevant

Because once standards are in place, they are in place.

This is what happens when one country gets a standard before other countries, that's all.

Consumer forces only push for new technology when it's something relevant. In reality, nobody cares about the difference between PAL and NTSC or even most cables. Nobody thought "I really want to reduce dot crawl when I buy this television" ever.

>>4040443
>RGB
>VCR or DVD players
Ok, kiddo.

>>4040448
Must be suck to have watched movies and games without best cable, i'm sorry for your childhood

>>4040450
Tell me more about these RGB VHS tapes you had.

>>4040452
guess what Americlap, in Europe EVERY FUCKING VCR was connected with a RGB

>>4040456
I'm jealous. We never got RGB VHS tapes in America.

>>4040460

There's no such thing as an RGB VHS tape. When the playback device detects the three different colors, it just doesn't combine them and instead puts the three different images into different signal outputs.

Composite combines the three images into one and sends it as one signal.

Nobody bothered with component in American VHS players because the image quality is so low that the cable is hardly a limiting factor and because by the time American SDTVs started featuring component, VHS was already almost phased out. Even VHS/DVD combo devices would not output VHS to RGB because this would require a few extra capacitors that the manufacturer didn't want to pay for.

>>4040478
It was satire, Cpt. Autismo.

And RGB for DVD is inferior to component.

>>4040480

Component IS RGB.

>>4040482
Not in the us.

Component is y/pb/cr
Rgb is rgb (like out of a comouters VGA port)

>>4040482
Your ignorant and assume sync is just there. Component (YBPBR) is not RGB. It's literally Blue Red and a sync line. It has far higher bandwidth than RGB S.

>>4040484

No, RGB is any signal with the three signal split.

Component is RGB.

>>4040491

Green is known from difference from luma, which is carried on the green cord.

>>4040493
Green is luma not green. It's the sync. You're a moron.

>>4040495

No shit, Sherlock, I just said that. You are the moron.

Do you need a pacifier or something? You have yet to tell me anything I don't already know.

>>4040501
No dipshit. You said.
>Green is known from difference from luma, which is carried on the green cord.
Break this down idiot. Nice and slow.
>Green is known from difference from luma
Yes
>,
>which is carried on the green cord.
Wrong.
The difference from luma is not carried on the green line. Green is not carried. Only the Luma is carried.

Fuck off dumbass.

>>4040508

You need to learn how to read, wow. This is a special kind of stupid.

>>4040510
I can read fine dumbass. You can't. Sorry.

>>4040517

No you can't, if you could you'd know I said luma is carried on the green cord.

Instead you keep screaming that I was saying "difference from luma" (which is not a noun used in signal standards).

You are ridiculous and made a giant ass of yourself, what a shame.

>>4040521
>you'd know I said luma is carried on the green cord.
>Green is known from difference from luma
>COMMA
>which is carried on the green cord.

>>4040524

Yeah, you definitely need to learn to read.

Anyway, thread is shit now because you picked an argument like a retard, getting out of here. I might check back in if someone starts posting without greentext/reaction image again.

>>4040526
>Green is known from difference from luma
This is sentence, dumbass. It states that the difference from luma can figure out green. That's all this sentence says.
Then... you still following here retrard? You add a bigass comma
>,
Followed by
>which is carried on the green cord.
Which states the prior is carried on green cord. And what is the prior? Hmmm? Oh wait? You saying the difference between luma can find green? Oh, jeez.

>>4040484
Component is an ambiguous term. There's many kinds of component.

>>4040532
I'm not even that guy but it's obvious that

>which is carried on the green cord

the "which" is referring to just "luma", not "difference from luma".

>>4040539
You can argue that but it's not what the setence states.

Hi, I'm new to /vr/.
Is every thread like this?
I'll just leave quietly and won't be missed.

>>4040545

No, the guy here is from /v/ >>4040450. You can trace his other posts easily.

>>4040542
Who cares? You knew what he meant, you're just being pedantic.

>>4040552
What's the point in arguing on 4chan if I assume the other guy is competent. You're expecting a lot of me here.

>>4040545
Your question is stupid and phrased badly, but I'll bite.

All the standards for NA crts were influenced by television, which changed and got better over time. In the 40s and 50s black and white tvs became commonplace in American homes, and broadcasts were carried over the air over certain frequencies. In the 60s and 70s most people swapped to color tvs as they became available. In the 80s and 90s most people swapped to cable broadcasts and stopped using over the air channels. Mtv happened and there was a sudden need for tvs to be in stereo. Composite a/v happened, and this was good enough for most people for 20 years. Whereas in Europe much the same happened except the incredibly efficient scart cable was standardized in the 70s, carrying a number of signals including composite video, stereo sound, and what would be the gold standard for all video, RGBs.

In the 80s s-video was invented and quickly became a standard, favored by hifi enthusiasts and the pro video market. It carried roughly equivalent image quality to the RGBs but was cheaper to make. In the 90s YPbPr component was standardized, which used a more efficient colorspace while also looking roughly equivalent to RGBs but was intended to also be able to carry high bandwidth ED/HD video signals.

So there you go, black & white over the air to 1080i over YPbPr in 50 years.

>>4040647
>I'm talking straight out my wiki parroting ass
Near nothing used RGB as said already.

>>4040557
>What's the point in arguing on 4chan
There isn't any point.

I'M FUCKING LAUGHING MY ASS OFF AT THIS THREAD

Really guys? Are you literary the "but I did things wrong in my childhood so it's the RIGHT way to do it now!" faggots?
Holy shit you guys are tech illiterates and crybabies.

Amerifags don't know shit about Europe and PAL/SCART (seriously, they don't even know the different TV/Monitors and connections it had or how it worked, what where the limitations, etc) while Eurotards just hate to uselessly make fun on them, while at least one or two Americans ITT had an actual RGB monitor like the default SCART TVs where for their console instead of a TV with just composite like the most people did. Nice.

>>4040652
>Near nothing used RGB as said already.
I'm too lazy to read the fucking thread, but you mean nothing with SCART used RGB? Well my DVD player used RGB over SCART and my PlayStation had a RGB/SoL SCART cable, both where under the RGB input (instead of AV, what it normaly is when you use SCART with plain Composite/S-Video) on the TV. We are also talking about the 90's here and not new shit.

About the Monitor VS TV.
Also using a separate monitor for RGB was irrelevant with PAL because PAL monitors where higher res by default. Not to mention most home micros had their own RGB or Chrome/Luma monitors in Europe too, TVs where used only in dire need.

>>4040436
No one in the uk used rgb even though our tvs supported it. RF, composite, component for a little while and then hdmi. Hell im the only person i know who knows what rgb is, most people think its the same as composite as they both used scart here.

>>4040447
I appreciate your correct answer to OP's question, Anon. If you want people to pay attention though you should link to at least one post and use at least one expletive.

>>4040880
>Component

Literally no one used that meme.

That aside my VHS (lol) player could ONLY use a SCART to SCART cable so it was "RGB"

>>4040652
>Near nothing used the color space standard that is the basis for all video production

>>4040436
>Terrible CRT and awful cables

Oh good lord. Let's just settle this once and for all.

The recent trend of using RGB(and by this I mean how popular PVM use has become as well as console mods) as a connector is something I've come to believe is simply in line with how accoustumed we have become with two things: Digital displays and HDMI. Today, we live in a world where information can be transferred to a monitor with a digital connector(such as HDMI) and be displayed with little to no loss, color bleeding, or usually none of that at all; It's digital. And it looks great too.

Only problem though... This is the world we live in today, and in the past, it wasn't really like this... You want to go back to the 2000's and 90's, particularly in North America, Composite was one of the most common video connectors. And in the 80's, that spot was held by RF. And that's what annoys me when I see posts like these... The connectors were fine. Not many people in those eras were concerned with the sharpness and color range of displays as long as it looked good enough, and one of the top measurements of a display back then was how big it was(still kind of a thing nowadays, but I'm sure many of you had at least one moment in your childhood when you were excited to be playing a game on a 30"+ TV); On a bigger TV, Composite and S-Video were blown up more and stuff like Dot Crawl wasn't super noticeable. Most of you on this particular board lived all through the 90's or earlier, so I don't feel like this has to be explained. RGB was only really something that existed in the realm of professional video production.

So... Why were we "stuck" with Composite? It was a standard that many of the major manufacturers didn't want to change from, and... We were able to live with that. We were fine with it.

(1/2)

(2/2, continued from >>4040979)

So for the point I'm trying to make here... Can you play your games in RGB? Yes you can. Is RGB practically the best type of connection for many Retro Consoles, judging by the isolation of signals it sends to the monitor? Why yes, very much so. But is it right to accuse others of being inferior for using connection types to play games that have more signal blending? No, it's not, and the argument of "how the developers intended for the games to be played" is a vague idea that very much depends on the game itself and even then, it's not like you have to play it that way if you don't want to. At the end of the day, it all comes down to the game itself, and having fun- it's a game. You can spend a (possible) hefty amount on professional monitors and cable types to get the best picture quality possible, but in the end, there's just a game to play. Relax and enjoy.

tl;dr version: People, mainly in North America, were able to get along with composite video bandwidth back then because it was generally good enough and most of the time, practically the best there was. The use of RGB is way more widespread nowadays and is in some ways, a recent trend that didn't exist back then, and at the end of the day it's all just about the game itself.

P.S: I don't mean to come off as harassing with any of what I said, just wanted to throw this out there and hope we can all reconcile our differences with how we want to play, and focus more on what we have in common with what we like about retro games. Just want to look out for you guys :)

>>4040452
>He didn't have this RGB VHS tape
Bad childhood sweetums.

>>4040931
Xbox 360 had support for it before HDMI here. Its easier to find component cables for consoles than it is RGB too, im talking official ones not third party.

>>4040931
>>4040935
>>4040997
>Kids think VHS had RGB support

>>4040979
>The recent trend of using RGB
Péritel was the default for all my TVs since the early 80s, how the fuck is RGB a "recent trend"?

>>4040983
This is all fine and accurate from a north american-centric perspective, which honestly is what annoys me in turn, mostly because you took the time to be respectful and polite about it and yet end up making the same mistakes a lot of maladapted, ignorant anons (not you, btw) make.

Europe and Japan had RGB systems in the consumer domain. Yes, composite was acceptable at the time. But it was not "the best there was", as you put it. I'll concede that games come before picture quality, and at the end of the day I'll take composite over nothing at all, but your post was just well-meaning disinformation.

RGB was just ignored by the North American industry when targeting consumer-level markets, which is a damn shame, but that doesn't make composite a high-end signal.

tl;dr: Composite wasn't the best there was. Systems like SCART always offered superior RGB video. I'm not surprised americans think they're the center of the world because they've been led to think that way for decades. I say this with respect: That mindset makes you miss out on a lot. Thanks for your time and patience.

>>4041828
RGB is irrelevant and anyone saying otherwise is ignorant. Or poor and trying to use a TV as a monitor for some reason.

And we've had RGB on consumer electronics since at least the 80s. Different anon.

>>4041798
huh? you some kind of eurotard?

>>4040443
>VCR
>RGB
kek

>>4040480
i think you have a severe misunderstanding of the word ‘satire’

>>4041807
You didn't see what I was trying to explain by that?

>(and by this I mean how popular PVM use has become as well as console mods)

>>4041828
>Japan had RGB systems in the consumer domain
Technically yes, but in practice not really. A few high-end models had a "JP-21" SCART port, but these were quite rare. For the most part consumer TVs were limited to composite or, if you're lucky, S-video, much like North America. Later Japanese TVs started including D-terminal ports, which carried YPbPr similar to American component cables. Those saw a lot more usage.

>>4042207

Famous via the GameCube D-terminal cables

The Scart cable (Péritel) It is a french made and standard for TV, VHS, Caméra ou DVD.
For Atari 7800,Snes, PS1 or Dreamcast RGB Scart cable is the norm in France. But in other country like UK they use the shitty RF connector.

>>4040436
I'm personally addicted to RF distortions, it's my favorite part of CRTs.

>>4041846
He's simply a retard OR an Americlap

Maybe he think RGB = PAL

>>4041783
Sorry americlaps, it's the truth

>>4042413
Summer

>>4042416
>Summer
Too bad i don't have anymore my old VHS, just to shove it IN YOUR ASS (and in your mouth)

>>4042420
Those special PAL only RGB VHS you mean?

The funny thing about this whole "PAL HAD RGB FROM DA BEGGININ!!!" shit is that they really didn't. Consoles came bundled with either RF switches or SCART cables that had a composite signal running through them. The vast majority of europeans were playing with the same two options we were.... except in 50hz slow mo.

>>4042491
we wuz scart n shiet

>>4041778
I've literally never seen a component cable in the UK in my life. Everything went from RF/composite to SCART to HDMI.

>>4042491
Nope. Snes had Scart RGB, Nes too, Megadrive too, Saturn too, Dreamcast too.
N64 composite only. PS1,PS2, GC and Xbox sell with composite cable, but We can buy RGB cable separetly.

>>4042508
Im not this guy but for the record before anybody calls bullshit, the French NES really does output an RGB signal, but it's just the regular composite signal converted to RGB, nothing fancy like the Famicom Titler.

>>4042508
>>4042513
The only console of note that had a SCART cable with RGB out of the box was the SNES.

The NES you're talking about didn't output RGB. It has a conversion from composite.

>>4042524
>Conversion
Yes, I just said that.

However the mega drive, master system, Saturn, and PlayStation all supported RGB out of the box. In France they came with RGB SCART cables, in the UK they usually came with RF so they could sell the RGB SCART cables for extra.

The main consoles of note that *don't* support proper RGB are the NES and N64.

>>4042527
>However the mega drive, master system, Saturn, and PlayStation all supported RGB out of the box.
>PlayStation
No, and those SEGA consoles are hardly of note. The top selling retro console had no RGB Scart cable out of the box.

>>4042491
I fail to see how this matters? If we wanted it, we could just buy a Scart RGB cable and use that.

>>4042574
You are supposed to be as ignorant as American, please never consider other options, or burgers get triggered hard.

>>4040436
10/troll
Summerfag containment thread

>>4040448
Plenty of RGB DVD players. Most of them back in the day were switchable component/RGB.

>>4041798
You're thinking 480i and 240p.

>>4041783
The units yes, because of the Frenchies with their SECAM bullshit. VHS is composite.
>RGB VHS OSD FUCK YEAH

>>4040880
This. People tend to settle for the easiest thing. Even when US TVs began to widely support s-video and component, nobody fucking gave a shit. It was just easier to hook it up via composite and get on with your life.

>>4040931
SCART is capable of carrying many signal types, including composite. Just because you're using a SCART cable, does not mean you're using RGB, and I highly doubt a VCR was outputting an RGB signal.

>>4040931
SCART is also bidirectional which is also handy for a VCR.

>>4040436
RGB was only common in Europe because France made a law for SCART to be a requirement on all TVs, and TV makers couldn't be arsed to make a separate French version of their products, they just put SCART on all European units. It was sheer dumb luck.

>>4040931
>Literally no one used that meme.

Every damn DVD player had Component output, once the standard was introduced.

My 1999 Sony projector can do Component input.

>>4042583
Don't burgers always get triggerd?

>>4040436
im embarassed to say I was using RF for my game systems as late as 1999 and didnt discover s-video until the mid 2000s

>>4043154
That's why we went directly from the Scart to the hdmi

>>4041783
>Not getting a really obvious joke
Never change /vr/

>>4040739
>>4040743
best posts so far in this thread, literary everyone else sounds retarded

>>4040436
Coz americans are dumb and don't know any better.

>>4043154
I don't think it's only that, Scart comes in real handy as an adapter (composite, s-video trough scart)

>>4042314
>But in other country like UK they use the shitty RF connector.
Tru dat. I live in Scotland and was staggered that my Dreamcast came bundled with an RF cable. Composite + LR Audio I could understand but R-fucking-F?! In 2000?!

>>4044967
About a year ago I bought a box of DC shit for a few bucks. There were 3 DC RF cables. I kept them so if I ever give away or sell one of my DC I can hand them one and say here's you're video cable bro.

>>4041838
I have a VCR that has component output. Not sure when it was made though. It's a Toshiba D-VR5SC

>>4047761
that output is for the DVD portion only.

>>4047761
That model is a DVD/VCR combo you big Galah

>Eucalyptus?
>You can FUCK OFF!

>>4046924

you are a horrible person.

>>4047767
>>4047769

BTFO.

>>4047802
And, to further add proof.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/699144/Toshiba-D-Vr5su.html?page=8#manual

>>4047802
>BTFO
Not really. The VCR will still be outputting composite, they all do. It just converts it to component for the sake of user convenience, not having to have two separate video connections hooked up.

You don't gain anything vs a standard composite connection, quality-wise.

>>4047802
huh, look at that. must have an upscaler in it.