/vr/ - Retro Games

>>3995650
Nah there are way better ones, like no one said PSX or Sness and Bloodlines wasn't garbage.

Ofcourse Sony didn't hate 2D. A shit ton of 2D games were released in Japan. Shooters, RPGs and platformers were still made with sprites for a quite a while.

>>3995650
The problem wasn't developers, it was the market. 3d was seen as a big deal since it looked more "life like". The market forvthe system was a bit older, this is why games like FFVII, RE, and MGS were the huge hits they were. This teenage/young adult market wanted more grittier stuff as they felt it was more appropiate for them. This was where "mature games for a mature person such as myself" phase started. 2d games often had a more cartoony style as it lended itself naturally. Because of this these games were ignored as they were seen as "childish". Twenty years later though even the general public acknowledges how much better 2d has aged then 3d. I myself think early 3d is better then most give it credit for (crash, spyro, and megaman legends look great) but games like those look timeless.

TL;DR: market was full of edgelords so developers catered to them

No--crt is the biggest meme right now, and if anything consumers were the ones who hated 2d games during that era

>>3995743
SotN being fuck huge kind of pokes a hole in that. Spyro also being fuck huge pokes similar but different holes.

The problem with the PS wasn't that people only wanted 3D games. People really wanted good ports of 2D fighting games on it, but they were mostly bad.

Know who hated 2D? Bernie Stolar.

Fuck Bernie Stolar.

>>3995650
It's uncanny just how much asspulled nonsense can be crammed into a single OP

>>3995796
Look at the top sellers of the system, is there anything rated E/E10 other then crash or spyro that was a huge seller? Other then those all the top selling games were rated T/M since the market was aimed at a older audience. Other then cases like SotN, the BoF games, and oddworld most of these people didn't buy these games.

>>3995796
PSX didn't have enough memory for accurate 2D fightan ports, they all required a lot of memory to store sprites and streaming them wasn't really an option unless it is a special attack where you can afford to wait a bit for the lengthy animation

>>3995852
Sorry, gran turismo as well.

>The PlayStation wast the last console with a 2D soul, the hardware is much more efficient for 2D or 2D/3D (Breath of Fire 3/4), than for full 3D games.
The PC-FX came out later and had no 3D hardware at all.
Or the Loopy if you're into interactive sticker printing.

>>3995865
>The PC-FX came out later
PSX 1994-12-03
PC-FX 1994-12-23
Eh it's true but pretty pedantic.
Probably with "last system" people are more thinking about which system ended last rather than when they started.

>>3995852
All I get from that is that most of the kiddie games were shit or unreleased. SotN proves a good 2D game sold like hot cakes. Spyro proves a good kiddie game sold like hot cakes.

>>3995853
Exactly. And poor sales of shitty ports proves that what people cared about was quality.

>>3995650
What game is that in the 5th row and 4th column?

Aren't most of OP's games arcade games, not PS1 games?

>>3996712
gunners' heaven / rapid reload?

>>3995802

This. What the big Jewlord ended up doing later in life is so fucking fitting too.

2D games might have aged well but they didn't make the jump to HD resolutions AT ALL. Modern 2D games that try to look HD end up looking like motion tweened vectorized Flash animation garbage which looks and plays lazy.

>>3995650
>>3995653
It would be nice if these charts came with names on them.

>>3997345
from left to right in op image, column 2, row 5 is umihara kawase shun and it is worth playing even if i recommend you play the first game first called umihara kawase for the super nintendo

>>3995743
You are an absolute moron. that's incapable of thinking in anything other than meaningless buzzwords your meme-addled underdeveloped brain or yours desperately attaches itself to to mask the fact you are void of any original opinions other than the ones you parrot. The Playstation was successful because it beat Nintendo to the punch when it game to the 3D gimmick and used CDs that were cheaper than cartridges, while holding more more memory, which allowed developers to create larger games without the concern of memory constraints, embracing modern gaming conventions that were novel at the time like high quality sound and FMVs. 3rd party developers naturally gravitated to the Playstation to avoid Nintendo's draconian standards policy that was biased in Nintendo in-house development's favor. Given the Playstation was relatively cheap and worked as a CD player, it had a larger market share to work with when it came to attachment.

I swear Nintendo fanboys have a larger victim complex then blacks nowadays. Just get an emulator and play everything while ignoring the hardware if you're so eternally assblasted about it

>>3997345
This.

>>3997345
Yeah I'd like that

>>3995743
>The problem wasn't developers, it was the market.
Indeed, 3D was the new hotness at the time, but many gamers still wanted to play 2D games, there was clearly an important 2D niche that SCEA wanted to destroy, they refused to publish things like Gunners Heaven, even though it's a Sony Japan game and also denied Capcom permission to release Mega Man 8 and Mega Man X4 in North America until Capcom convinced them.

>>3997345
>>3998273
>>3998284
See:

>>3995650
>1st Row
1. Mickey's Wild Adventure, 2. Silhouette Mirage, 3. Chippoke Ralph no Daibouken, 4. Legend of Mana, 5. Namco Anthology 2 (Valkyrie no Bouken)
>2nd Row
1. Zanac x Zanac, 2. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, 3. Capcom vs SNK Pro, 4. Hermie Hopperhead, 5. Disney's Hercules
>3rd Row
1. Punky Skunk, 2. Alundra, 3. Skullmonkeys, 4. Guilty Gear, 5. Johnny Bazookatone
>4th Row
1. Ganbare Goemon: Uchu Kaizoku Akogingu, 2. Rayman, 3. Mega Man X4, 4. Mad Stalker: Full Metal Force, 5. Herc's Adventure
>5th Row
1. Gex, 2. Tales of Phantasia, 3. Harmful Park, 4. Gunner's Heaven, 5. Gradius Gaiden
>6th Row
1. Heart of Darkness, 2. Umihara Kawase Shun, 3. Gundam: The Battle Master 2, 4. Panzer Bandit, 5. The Great Battle VI

>>3995653
>1st Row
1. International Super Star Soccer Deluxe, 2. Strider 2, 3. The Adventures of Lomax, 4. Brave Prove, 5. Ganbare Goemon: Ooedo Daikaiten
>2nd Row
1. Tomba!, 2. Castlevania Chronicles, 3. Mega Man 8, 4. Valkyrie Profile, 5. Kaette Kita Cyborg Kuro-chan
>3rd Row
1. Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee, 2. Breath of Fire 4, 3. Asuka 120% Burning Fest Final, 4. Metal Slug X, 5. Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together
4th Row
1. Earthworm Jim 2, 2. Gear Fighter Dendoh, 3. SaGa Frontier II, 4. Kyoro-chan no Purikura Daisakusen, 5. Snatcher
5th Row
1. Real Bout Special: Dominated Mind, 2. Star Ocean: The Second Story, 3. Gussun Paradise, 4. Klonoa, 5. Community Pom
6th Row
1. Mega Man X5, 2. The Lost Vikings II: Norse by Norsewest, 3. Final Fantasy Origins, 4. Suikoden II, 5. Monkey Magic

>>3995743
>The problem wasn't developers, it was the market.
Indeed, 3D was the new hotness at the time, but many gamers still wanted to play 2D games, there was clearly an important 2D niche that SCEA wanted to destroy, they refused to publish things like Gunners Heaven, even though it's a Sony Japan game and also denied Capcom permission to release Mega Man 8 and Mega Man X4 in North America until Capcom convinced them.

>>3997345
>>3998273
>>3998284
See:

>>3995650 (OP)
>1st Row
1. Mickey's Wild Adventure, 2. Silhouette Mirage, 3. Chippoke Ralph no Daibouken, 4. Legend of Mana, 5. Namco Anthology 2 (Valkyrie no Bouken)
>2nd Row
1. Zanac x Zanac, 2. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, 3. Capcom vs SNK Pro, 4. Hermie Hopperhead, 5. Disney's Hercules
>3rd Row
1. Punky Skunk, 2. Alundra, 3. Skullmonkeys, 4. Guilty Gear, 5. Johnny Bazookatone
>4th Row
1. Ganbare Goemon: Uchu Kaizoku Akogingu, 2. Rayman, 3. Mega Man X4, 4. Mad Stalker: Full Metal Force, 5. Herc's Adventure
>5th Row
1. Gex, 2. Tales of Phantasia, 3. Harmful Park, 4. Gunner's Heaven, 5. Gradius Gaiden
>6th Row
1. Heart of Darkness, 2. Umihara Kawase Shun, 3. Gundam: The Battle Master 2, 4. Panzer Bandit, 5. The Great Battle VI

>>3995653
>1st Row
1. International Super Star Soccer Deluxe, 2. Strider 2, 3. The Adventures of Lomax, 4. Brave Prove, 5. Ganbare Goemon: Ooedo Daikaiten
>2nd Row
1. Tomba!, 2. Castlevania Chronicles, 3. Mega Man 8, 4. Valkyrie Profile, 5. Kaette Kita Cyborg Kuro-chan
>3rd Row
1. Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee, 2. Breath of Fire 4, 3. Asuka 120% Burning Fest Final, 4. Metal Slug X, 5. Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together
>4th Row
1. Earthworm Jim 2, 2. Gear Fighter Dendoh, 3. SaGa Frontier II, 4. Kyoro-chan no Purikura Daisakusen, 5. Snatcher
>5th Row
1. Real Bout Special: Dominated Mind, 2. Star Ocean II, 3. Gussun Paradise, 4. Klonoa, 5. Community Pom
>6th Row
1. Mega Man X5, 2. The Lost Vikings II: Norse by Norsewest, 3. Final Fantasy Origins, 4. Suikoden II, 5. Monkey Magic

>>3995669
>Snes
>Garbage

a lot of these games were bashed by critics for being 2D when 3D was "the new standard for games." Sure, you look at some of the early mid-90s 3D games now and think "wow, those textures are ugly and those controls were horrible" but back then everyone was eating it up going on about how there wasn't a viable market for 2D games anymore when you could navigate within the third dimension.

>>3998510

I remember when Snk Vs Capcom came out (the Neo Geo version) and how game critics all over bashed its "antiquated" visuals, yet IMO they crafted the most beautiful sprites for Street Fighter characters ever seen in the franchise.

The dirty secret is sprite games hold up decades later from a visual perspective, but most early polygonal games look atrocious now. The funny part is the ones that look the best were the early Sega AM2 games like Virtua Fighter and Virtua Racing because their lack of texture mapping gives the game a unique art style that appears timeless.

I'm not sure why this is even up for debate. The entire industry wanted 3d. 2d games were seen as developers being lazy. Reviewers in gaming magazines deducted points for 2d games. If you drew breath in the mid 90's, you'd know this.

>>3999112

Wonder how many of these aholes are still reviewing games to this day? What is their meme now to knock points off a title?

>>3999117
Who knows. Shumps were equally derided during the 16-bit era because there were so many the generation before.

>>3999112
Wasn't that dependent on genres?
Nobody had figure out how to properly do strategy or adventures in 3D so 2D games were still accepted.

>>3999092
Yeah. I have been looking through some older gaming mags recently to get promotional images and to poke around and see what public opinions were for some of my favorite games at release, and it was really interesting seeing people giving positive reviews to games I can't even physically play now because of their janky 3D controls, whilst berating gorgeous 2D games for their developers not sticking to the trends.
The only real appeal I see in revisting these old 3D games nowadays is largely nostalgia and story/characters. Pretty much every n64 game is like that to me now. Positive memories and appealing characters wrapped up in awkward controls and puke-textured polygons.

>>3999130
It depended on the reviewer. These guys weren't really held to any standard. Even Ziff Davis mags went off on games for silly reasons.

>>3999140
>Even Ziff Davis mags went off on games for silly reasons.
Speaking of EGM specifically here and their never give a shmup higher than 7.0 rating.

>>3999140
Only guy from EGM I remember distinctly hating was John. Mainly because of once instance he rated a game 2 when everyone else did 7 or 8 because it was too hard for him.
This has reminded me to dig out these magazines now that I think about it.

>>3999117
>reviewer in 1997
>"Game looks like it belongs on the SNES, 5/10"
>same reviewer in 2017
>"Game looks like it belongs on the Atari 2600, 10/10, and I swear it's not because my wife's bull made a cameo in it"

>>3997435
Holy fuck are you mad, this is hilarious. I love the ps1, only the snes is higher in terms of my favorite systems, I don't see how i had any sign of fanboyism in that comment. All I said was the ps1 attracted a older audience as gamers who gre up on 8bit/16bit stuff were older and they liked the more mature games featured on the system. If you think me calling them "edgelords" was meant to be taken serious then maybe learn about sarcasm. People of the late 90's were edgy, look at how stuff like mortal kombat and doom were big names. People loved ultra violence. Typically younger children were more attracted to games on the n64 for their more child friendly look.

>>3997331
That's partly your mind playing tricks on you by associating high-res sprites with crappy games simply due to what's been made so far and what you've seen. (Like people thinking 60fps movies look "cheap" compared to 24fps movies simply because they associate them with TV shows while associating 24fps with high-budget movies.)

But I do think there's a couple of real issues besides that:
1) Higher res means more actual detail is required to not have things look too plain and empty
2) People expect everything to have tons of frames these days for smooth motion, rather than the handful of animation frames that most 2D games used in the old days
3) The more detail there is, the more time and cost required to draw frames
4) Not many people get excited about 2D games anymore, they just tolerate it for time-killer f2p phone games
5) Even amongst the people who do love 2D games, they still think 2D games should be cheap and won't pay as much for them as 3D games

Combine all that together and actually creating what people think a good 2D game should look like is practically financially impossible. You end up getting those morphing/distortion animation effects in order to satisfy (2) because there's not enough money in the market to accomplish (3) unless you make things plain looking in (1).

>>3999793
I wish people could get over (2)
High-res sprites with NES animation frame count would be fine with me.

>>3998496
Nobody else has said it so far in the thread, but thanks.

>>3998505
Try reading, poindexter.

>>3999596
People is edgy even today. Look at any fandom and how insane they go about turning everything into blood and (gay) sex or rape, even if the source material is literally rainbows and sunshine.

>>3995743
None of this is true

Regardless of the hardware the console succeeded because it had good games; 2d or 3d or 1d. It doesn't matter. If you open more opportunities for more people wanting to make different kinds of games, you'll get a larger number/variety of fun games. it's simple. Ps1 had the power, but fuck if that mattered if the games were shit. So a "market" for life-like or gritty games is bullshit; there was a larger variety and more of an opportunity for gritty games that didn't get a voice in the previous console generations (Because previous consoles treated developers like shit by limiting their "sega chips" or "official nintendo seals"). I'll have you know "gritty" and life-like games existed on pc's long before this so called "market" you're talking about on the ps1.

Games were easier to make and you had more variety. In that variety, there was a lot of 2d games. what a surprise. When the technology makes it harder to develop 2d games, then we'll have a problem.

>>4000925
>the console succeeded because it had good games; 2d or 3d or 1d. It doesn't matter.
>2d or 3d or 1d
>1d

I ain't seeing shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72jAMCHL-2c

>>3997435
>Nintendo's draconian standards policy

did you know Hiroshi Yamauchi wasn't actually a human being? He was a vessel that enclosed 7 yakuza oni spirits from 7 different regions in Japan. These oni monopolized the gambling in Japan with the hanafuda Nintendo cards and put a spell so that no other company could produce cards, truly evil.

Yamauchi, often referred to as "大魔王 ティラノ天堂" (Great Evil King Tyranotendo), tyranized the video games market with his monopolic practises, it is said that the Master System or the PC Engine didn't actually ever exist, and that they were invented time after so hide the fact that the Famicom was actually the one and only console existing in Japan.

>>3998496
So .. who is going to remake the picture?

>>3998496

Thank you!

>Row 1
1. Street Fighter Alpha 3, 2. Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete, 3. Gaia Seed, 4. Bishi Bashi Special 3, 5. Tear Ring Saga
>Row 2
1. Bust-a-Move 4, 2. Front Mission 1st, 3. KoroKoro Post Nin, 4. Tales of Eternia, 5. Crusader: No Remorse
>Row 3
1. Wild Arms, 2. Nekketsu Oyako, 3. Fire Pro Wrestling G, 4. Groove Adventure Rave Plue No Daibouken, 5. Nijiiro Dodge Ball: Otome Tachi no Seishun
Row 4
1. Goemon: Shin Sedai Shuumei, 2. Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure, 3. Puyo Puyo~n, 4. The Rapid Angel, 5. Advanced V.G. 2
Row 5
1. Ogre Battle, 2. Mega Man X3, 3. Raiden Project (Raiden II), 4. Captain Commando, 5. GeGeGe no Kitarou Gyakushuu! Youma Daikessen
Row 6
1. CT Special Forces 2: Back to Hell, 2. Clock Tower, 3. Fuuun Gokuu Ninden, 4. Kitchen Panic, 5. Mega Man X6

>>4000063
>>4002997
You're welcome.

>Row 1
1. Street Fighter Alpha 3, 2. Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete, 3. Gaia Seed, 4. Bishi Bashi Special 3, 5. Tear Ring Saga
>Row 2
1. Bust-a-Move 4, 2. Front Mission 1st, 3. KoroKoro Post Nin, 4. Tales of Eternia, 5. Crusader: No Remorse
>Row 3
1. Wild Arms, 2. Nekketsu Oyako, 3. Fire Pro Wrestling G, 4. Groove Adventure Rave Plue No Daibouken, 5. Nijiiro Dodge Ball: Otome Tachi no Seishun
>Row 4
1. Goemon: Shin Sedai Shuumei, 2. Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure, 3. Puyo Puyo~n, 4. The Rapid Angel, 5. Advanced V.G. 2
>Row 5
1. Ogre Battle, 2. Mega Man X3, 3. Raiden Project (Raiden II), 4. Captain Commando, 5. GeGeGe no Kitarou Gyakushuu! Youma Daikessen
>Row 6
1. CT Special Forces 2: Back to Hell, 2. Clock Tower, 3. Fuuun Gokuu Ninden, 4. Kitchen Panic, 5. Mega Man X6

>>4000063
>>4002997
You're welcome.

>>3996719
They're all PS1 games, some are arcade ports.

>>3998496
what a hero. so knowledgeable.

>Only SCEA was opposed to 2D games
Then it isn't a meme.

Had Sony advertised their 2D games in America, I probably would have asked for one from my parents. Instead, the demo units all had unimpressive 3D games that played like shit, so I was turned off.