/vr/ - Retro Games

"J-just learn Japanese" autists in 3... 2... 1...

>>3925207
I kinda tried. You can learn Hiragana and Katakana, but learning Kanji is something you can realistically only do when in school, and when you have memory of a teenager.

>>3925227
Nah, you can do it at any time, it's just fucking boring as hell and the average non-NEET adult doesn't have time for this shit.

>>3925227
Not true, kanji is like learning emoticons, you come to realize this mashup of Asian squiggles has meaning. When I see the kanji for sake, I no longer think "oh that means sake." My brain just knows it automatically on seeing it, the same as if someone were to send me a :-) or something, you know that means "smile" without really thinking about it.

Words made up of more than one are the same, you just see the overall symbol and know the word. It all feels like using a different part of your brain than Western writing which is why I think people get intimidated by it.

>>3925285
One of my problems is being able to know what a kanji means by looking at it, but not knowing how it's read (or how many readings it might have).

i've been using ITH with google translate for the pc-98 emulator and it works wonder but why isn't there something like that with other emulators?

How about some images?
OCR isn't anything new.

>>3925289
You don't worry about the readings. Just know what it sounds like on its own. Then when you learn words that combine it with others, learn the whole word and don't worry about how the individual kanji sound within it. Knowing the different readings is only useful in an academic sense.

>>3925289
Eventually you realize that kanji with similar root characters are read the same and the multiple on-yomi are just variations on the voicing

I think that you must be pretty tired of having to translate everything in the game using your phone. In particular, do not forget that Google has obvious problems that translation errors often occur when using idioms, strange vocabulary and other phrases. Please see how unpleasant words this post is expressed.

Whatever text heavy game I think it is just annoying and damaging experience. Ultimately I was able to use it to experience a game with little text. I could easily use the online walkthrough. Perhaps if there is a game, I may have difficulty translating Google, but in mind.

>>3925319
Nigga, I'm not sure you even know english

>>3925289
It's similar in English. Look at a word but can't tell how it's pronounced or if it has different ways to pronounce it.

>>3925294
what's ITH?

>>3925319
That would be an issue if actual localizations were so great in first place.
Typical PS1 era translator would just scramble some text from few words he could understand and call it localization. That's how "what is a man" meme from SOTN was born, though original text had nothing to do with it.

>>3925379
Interactive text hooker.
They mainly work with adventure games and digital comics.

>>3925391
Thanks

>>3925172
>thanks to Google Translate.
I'm the first one to praise and be constantly impressed by how fast Google Translate is evolving, but no.
Unless by playing you mean translating menus and getting a very vague, murky and mostly wrong translation of dialogues, and good luck if it's a PCE or NES game with Kana only.

>>3925487
>a very vague, murky and mostly wrong translation of dialogues
You just described average NA translation.
Minus the spoony bard part

>>3925172
That shit does not work like pic related, youll be lucky to translate one menu option at a time taking a photo of a tv.

>>3925597
It literally does however
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z-emwLRQr0
You'll kinda have to guess what translated text is supposed to mean, but it's better than nothing. And videogame writing is not literature.

>>3925632
It's pretty funny how shit that is. Bear in mind that it's not smart enough to actually join lines up, so if you're playing anything where text happens to have a linebreak, you're going to get complete gibberish. If your phone isn't completely stable, you're going to get lots of misread characters, too.

It's cool for idiots, I guess. If you're trying to get a rough estimate of what a simple sign says in a foreign country, it'll do.

But the idea of playing games through that just sounds painful.

>>3925632
Show us some retro games instantly translated that way.

>>3925705
>If your phone isn't completely stable, you're going to get lots of misread characters
You'll get OCR misses all the time. If you know some Japanese you can correct mistakes and fill gaps with your own knowledge.
Additionally you'll have to deal with low resolution fonts and transparencies and other shit that makes OCR harder.
Manga are probably going to work a lot better than games, provided it can grasp whole text bubbles.

>>3925172
I've tried this, OP.

It's not very competent. It doesn't even recognize text at all sometimes- ESPECIALLY for retro games.

>>3925726
I really doubt that manga would work well. I can picture it getting confused very easily by all the black and white strokes, and it still isn't going to be able to properly distinguish line breaks.

I do kind of want to see what pops up if you try and translate something like this, though.

>>3925717
It says: "At that time, the greatest bio-hazard (biological leak) occurred in history, where bacterial weapons under development by the former Soviet forces "Lucifer α" leaked into the atmosphere"

Good enough for you?

我正好試著學習日語。 最終我意識到,平假名和片假名實際上比漢字更難學習和理解。 漢字是他們自己的意思。 這意味著你實際上可以學習語言,而不需要知道如何說話。 那就是我如何開始學習中文。但、最WEEBS不想學習一個新語言。

>>3925760
Honestly, is there any language more disgusting than chink?

>>3925763
There is no language more elegant in written form than Traditional Chinese fampai. It's literally fun to write

>>3925765
What's so traditional about traditional Chinese? They just refuse one simplification out of dozens.
Write clerical script if you want to be retro.

>>3925760
I already learned English which is my non-native language, and French which turned out completely useless. Learning Japanese to play PS1 JRPGs is just too much.

Chinese is more useful for practical things, yeah, but with current progress of machine translation computers will probably always outpace my learning.

>>3925760
I'm pretty tempted to pick up Chinese too, but the amount of spoken variations scares me a bit. I know the grammar is SVO rather than SOV.

>>3925760
>tfw even though I know a fair amount of kanji I still can't understand shit in chinese.
>tfw it's also a tonal language

This distinct feeling of disappointment mixed to hopelessness and existential dread is quite something.

>>3925774
A lot of things just don't translate at all, no matter how good the translator is.
You'll have more luck augmenting your brain with a computer.

There are plenty of RPGs on the PS1 and there's no reason to stop there.

>>3925779
Having tried out both, I can tell you that Japanese is infinatly harder than Chinese

>>3925775
The thing with Chinese is that, being logographic, you can literally learn to read the language without speaking a word of it, like me.
It's such an ancient language too, and is way easier than other languages grammatically speaking. Want to make something past tense? Just add 了.

Unlike Japanese too, I was already writing full on sentences with Chinese right from the beginning because there's almost no particles or word modifications necessary

>>3925783
Google translate simply recognizes these hieroglyphs better than I do already.
Those old games have single pixel-fonts sometimes and I can't figure them out, while computer does.

>>3925798
Any quick start guide for learning Chinese?

>>3925805
Again, that's the beauty of chinese. You really don't need a quick start guide. Literally just start learning words and string them together like little modules.

For instance, "I" (as in me) is 我
"want" is 想
"learn" is 學習
"chinese" is 中文

All together, that's "我想學習中文", or "I want to learn chinese"

>>3925802
That's just a matter of experience. I had to look up a lot of stuff in the beginning as well. Kanjitomo is pretty useful for that stuff.

>>3925227
Kanji is easy as hell, it looks hard but it isn't after you keep constantly adding flash cards to you deck over the years you will be learning the language. Actually applying it and trying to use the words and grammar to read is the hardest part.

Japanese has so many little nuances that it is essentially impossible to translate by a computer. It's literally the total opposite of English in every single way you fucking weebs

>>3925815
Wow. I've heard that Chinese is easy but this is ridiculous.

Too bad they don't have video games, anime, manga, or visual novels I wanna read... Back to grinding.

>>3925779

>>3925815
But how do I learn to type them? In Japanese I have two kinds of phonetic input but Chinese is completely different.

Is there an Anki deck with common words like the Core2k?
Can you learn Mandarin from reading Chinese subtitles?
Are there any Chinese language retro games suited for beginners? I watched a bit of the Chinese Paladin TV-series so I'm curious about the games.

>>3925838
This is by far the easiest method desu

>>3925385
So the MGS translator working in-house knew little Japanese, huh. Tell me more.

>>3925870
Pinyin input is way faster mate, unless you're some kind of ungodly fast drawer.

>>3925870
I don't always have a stylus at hand.
I also don't see a point in hand writing in this day and age.

>>3925895
But that requires knowing Mandarin.

>>3925883
MGS translation was always basically supervised by kojimbo.
Otherwise it would get some crappy cartoon voice actors, to begin with.

>>3925815
Would a Chinese speaker really put the characters in exactly that order? Does the order matter much at all?

I studied Japanese for a while and I was constantly noticing the fact that the natural way to phrase something in Japanese usually has the words in almost exactly the opposite order of what would be natural in English.
Like you'd say "Japanese language to learn I want" (where the "I" is implied by the verb, otherwise with "watashi wa" it would be something like "regarding myself, Japanese language to learn I want") instead of "I want to learn Japanese."

>>3925903
I'm clearly not talking about voice acting.

If you're neither a massive weeb, and I mean massive, as in "I only watch anime, read manga and all the games I play are Japanese", nor you're going to deal with Japanese people in your work/life then it's not worth learning the language, it's way too much effort for a shit payoff.

t. Guy who wasted a couple years of his life torturing himself with flashcards and dry grammar lessons daily when he's only interested in a few untranslated games

>>3925921
You're not interested in translated games?

>>3925824
The grammar is pretty simple compared to English (although, yes, often completely dissimilar to English), but what makes it hard to translate mechanically is the heavy reliance on context. Japanese grammar is so simple that you usually have to understand the meaning and context of the sentence to discern which words modify which subjects and such. Mechanical translation short of a very accomplished conversational AI would naturally rely on structural cues from the grammar, which often aren't specific enough for the machine to translate correctly every time. Thus, machine translation of Japanese sometimes results in translated text with exactly the opposite meaning!

>>3925923
I am interested in all sorts of games, I didn't say I was exclusively interested in games that were untranslated.

>>3925926
It sounded like you saw no point in playing games in Japanese when they already have an available translation.
Most games I play are like that.

Flash cards boil down to a few minutes per day and grammar can be largely ignored.

>>3925936
OK then, good that worked out for you.

>>3925940
It can work for anybody.
You either didn't come far or took a lot of wrong turns if you complain about grammar lessons.

>>3925385
You can cherry pick bad examples, but most translations, especially text heavy ones, are better than the nonsense I posted previously.

>>3925917
Chinese is very loose in terms of word order, I only phrased it that way because it was closer to English

>>3925798
As an amateur in both I feel that it's easier to learn Japanese as a usable language when you're a Westerner though. The grammar for both is pretty simple but at least you understand immediately what a word should sound like, kanji aside.

If you're just memorizing runes to understand the written language Chinese may be easier though. Pronunciation and understanding tonal differences is really the difficult thing there.
I don't really see the point of not learning to understand it as a spoken language though.

>>3926008
Correct if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Chinese was a bunch of mutually unintelligible languages united together by a common written language.

Japanese isn't that hard, Kanji is hard but if you play a lot of japanese games with Kanji in them and at least try to read all the japanese text you ever come across, they start to get drilled into your head the same way you learn vocabulary of any other language. I recommend playing those old games RPGs that used mostly kana but could also handle a minimum of common kanji, those helped me a lot.
The problem with people trying and failing to learn kanji and failing miserably is because they start doing anki reps daily until it becomes a chore, and they start doing it before they even have a grasp of the language enough to at least watch kids anime without subs. Don't be >>3925921 this guy. To learn any language you need exposure, not study. Study is just gonna make you bored. If you like anime, manga and japanese videogames, that's enough to make learning japanese more than worth it. Another important detail to mention is that learning languages takes a long time, many years. This might be hard to grasp for people who only know one language, so they get discouraged quickly, but the key is not to think how long it's been since you started, just keep in mind that in ten years chances are you'll still be young and you'll be glad you did what you did. Not saying it should take THAT long, but don't be discouraged if it does! Think how much better you are than last week/month/year!

>>3926040
can you give any reccs for introductory japanese media?

i started reading yotsuba in japanese before i burnt out, but i also burnt out due to a terribly difficult university schedule. i'm interested in getting back into the anki grind but i'm familiar to what you're saying and i'm sort of amazed by how much i still remember when i watch anime/japanese movies

>>3926040
Obviously, if you are japanese kid, you'll learn Kanji just fine during 10 years of school, and you'll learn everyday grammar even before school. Now the question if it's worth learning japanese now for couple untranslated games when machine translation already correctly interprets 40% of text, can do it in realtime already, and will only get better in these 5 years it will take you to get on basic level.

>>3926040
The fundamental misunderstanding is that knowing a language is binary.
I have been learning English for 25 years and there's still new things for me to discover.

>>3926139
Read something you're really interested in. Obviously not some century old classic literature but most things should work.

>>3926418
You know more than a Japanese kid. You don't need to learn grammar or abstract concepts from scratch.
There are a ton of untranslated Japanese games and a translation will never be as good as the original. 5 years is a completely bogus number.

>>3926418
Posts like this are great, because they're clearly made by people who have never even tried. They just come up with excuses for why they can't possibly lose a whole hour a day.

You can learn the vast majority of kanji you'll encounter in 3 months. That's how easy it is to match 10 years worth of schooling. After 5 years, you'll know more of the language than 80% of the Japanese population.

A basic level can be acquired in 6 months, and high school fluency in 2 years.

Even if machine translation was perfected tomorrow, I wouldn't use it. Translating Japanese just kills all the character of it, it's like asking ESLs why they play games in English instead of their own countries dub. If you know the original language, that's the best possible way to consume entertainment.

>>3926596
>Translating Japanese just kills all the character of it
True for actual literature. But we are talking about translating "Come on senpai! Don't give up!" type of texts. Even 2 years are too big investment for this.

>>3926615
Learning Japanese to play untranslated video games doesn't preclude you from enjoying other forms of untranslated media - quite the opposite, in fact, since the ability to disregard the language barrier allows you to discover and consume a much broader range of works much more easily. Not to mention that there are games (actual games, too, not just visual novels) with good writing, like the Kiseki series.

>>3925385
>>3925903
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Blaustein
In case you still don't understand why you're an idiot. Though to be fair Kojima hated his work, but that's because he has no idea what localization means.

>>3926596
>kanji in 3 months
>high school fluency in 2 years.
Bullshit.

>>3926596
>you can learn kanji in 3 months
How? Going through Reviewing the Kanji?
>>3926627
>Kiseki series.
Those are all translated.

>>3926642
>Remembering the Kanji
Fixed

>>3926641
>>3926642
Apparently you can't even read English.
>vast majority of kanji you'll encounter

>>3926646
Besides Kanji by themselves are useless it's how they form words that's important.

>>3926646

These are some bold claims nigga, "know more japanese than 80% of the japanese population in 5 years. Acquire highschool fluency in 2 years. Learn most kanji in 3 months" you'll only get frustrated by setting ridiculous goals like that and you severely underestimate how many words a native teenager knows

>>3925779

I took a Chinese course for a year at a local college once. Learning to speak a few phrases is one thing but the actual written language is an absolute nightmare

>>3926652
But anon, you can totally acquire highschool fluency in 2 years!

>>3926642
>Those are all translated.
I brought them up as an example of games with good writing, not untranslated games. And no, the two Crossbell games aren't.

>>3926650
I'm not >>3926596 but I don't think he's completely wrong. I learned the most common words and kanji in three months and after a year I could read most things I wanted.
My vocabulary is still a bit small but I'm working on it.

>>3926661
Define "read". Looking things up using a text hooker or rikaichan isn't reading.

>>3926650
The first two are really up to your own personal desire and how much you read, but it's absolutely trivial to learn most kanji in 3 months.

That's roughly 20 kanji a day, which is a pace I had absolutely zero issues with, and I was learning common readings at the same time.

2 years for high-school fluency is towards the top end, but anyone can reach the point where they're capable of reading high-school level material in 2 years.

>>3926669
Maybe I'm just retarded, nevermind I never wanted to learn this gay language anyway, FUCKING WEEBS

>>3926663
Looking up a word every few pages at most.

>>3926669
Anon, it's 600 kanji per month. They learn 400 kanji per year in school. I sense bullshit.

We have this thread every fucking day, I already told you I don't want to learn your primitive, useless language.

>>3925331
thats the point, dummy, he is using google translate
> Please see how unpleasant words this post is expressed.

>>3925749
>00:10:41
>00:36:48
well it only took 26 minutes, not bad

>>3926751
It's almost like children have a lot of shit to learn, and there's no point overwhelming them or something.

You understand that pretty much every language has tens of thousands of words, right? It takes a kid years to reach fluency by sitting there and soaking it all in, you can do it in a quarter of the time because you're a fucking adult, and you already have a language to work from.

Teaching a child what a cow is takes a bit of time, they have to understand what they look like, how big they are, that it eats grass, it makes milk, and we cut it up for beef. Learning how to say cow is in another language takes you 2 seconds, because all you have to do is link the concept of a cow to the new word for cow.

>>3926840
You don't know shit about language acquisition, stop talking before you embarrass yourself further.

>>3926880
Tell me more about how a toddler is better at learning languages than me, you braindead fuck. The hypotheses you're referring to have all been widely debunked.

>>3926653
EOPはかわいそうな人だね。

>>3926915
>人
それはどうかなぁ…

>>3926840
>you already have a language to work from.
Except asian languages function COMPLETELY different from anglo languages

>>3926978
And? Your brain doesn't run on a language, faggot, you can adapt to a new syntax.

I hate "learn Japanese" fags

>>3927014
Because they play all the games you can't?

>>3927014
they're right though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTGnPAq1ZdI

With the help of Federation Government forces, base of you guys, CATS has taken all.

>>3927025
That's old the new version is
>CATS: Thanks to the cooperation of the Federal government forces, all of your bases received CATS.

>>3925815
>想
That actually means "think" literally. In this context it means "wish to".

>>3925825
>Too bad they don't have video games, anime, manga, or visual novels I wanna read..
Lots of VNs and vidya gets translated to chink by taiwanese or hongkie corps.

>>3926031
Wong wong time ago, china was split in terms of spoken and written language, but they all have a lot in common. Le first emperor unified the written lingua by murdering thousands of scholars from conquered kingdoms and burning their books. Google it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19922863

>>3926887
Toddlers are amazing at learning languages
They usually learn one without any teacher or textbooks, simply by copycatting what they hear.

>>3927064
They're still a secondary source. I'd rather go straight for the teet rather than wait for it it to be put in a bottle.

>>3927075
Tell me more about how a dumb baby who doesn't even learn how to read for 5 years is better than me at learning languages.

You do realise that kids are taught their first language, right? Making the right sounds is reinforced, and the wrong ones are dissuaded.

>>3927083
They are literally programmed to learn language

>From birth on, children are programmed to develop speech and language. The first five years are most critical but language development continues throughout early childhood and on into adolescence. During the first five years stimulation of language development is important as the brain is both developing new nerve cells as well as multiple connections between nerve cells to serve the function of language both expressive and receptive. Lack of stimulation during this time could result in a child making slower progress or end up with poor communication skills. Later, we provide some tips for parents on how to help with language development but the basic suggestions are to spend lots of time talking, singing and reading to your child.

>In the early stages of language development, the brain is programmed to attend to speech sounds and begin to mimic them. Early on babies like to make sounds up on their own. Later they attempt to repeat sounds/words that they are exposed to from their environment.

>>3926652
>Learning to speak a few phrases is one thing but the actual written language is an absolute nightmare

Trust me it's easier than learning all the chink spoken dialects along with the "common tongue".

Here's only 3 of them plus le common tongue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0EAzuMjmfo

>>3927090
Do you not even read the shit you quote?

I can program a fucking roomba to pour me a drink by smacking into a bottle until it falls off the shelf and into a funnel with a glass at the bottom.

Or, I could create a lever that does the same thing in half a second.

Which do you think is better? Which is more efficient?

The baby might be "programmed" to learn, like all fucking humans are, the early language acquisition period might even be slightly "better" than adult learning due to brain plasticity, but that baby can't even read after 5 years, while I would be completely fluent in any language I chose in the same time-frame, with a much lower time investment.

Babies are dogshit at learning.

>>3927014
The problem is, Japanese industry shifted to mobile, and accessing modern games becomes not even about understanding Japanese but gaining access to geographically-segregated digital bubble.
Even if you know Japanese, it's foreign publisher who ultimately decides whether you get access to particular game or not. And when he decides "yes", it will mean localization too.

>>3927103
Anon, you sound like you have anger problems.

>>3927114
>Japanese industry shifted to mobile
>Muh causal muh freemium
That's not retro then.

>>3927126
There is certain threshold when "retro" shifts to "necro" )
I doubt I will still care about PS1 JRPGs in 2027

>>3927014
Quit crying and learn japanese, dude.
>>3927103
>while I would be completely fluent in any language I chose in the same time-frame, with a much lower time investment.
First we're moving the goalpost, now we're going straight into science fiction and wishful thinking.

>>3927114
There's still plenty of good games coming to PlayStation and Nintendo consoles.

I think the point the guy is trying to make is that even if a baby is better at learning language than an adult It will be a couple of years before they can start applying their knowledge practically, and with purpose. As an adult you probably have a goal to reach, and can immediately start using the language you have chosen to learn with a purpose. Using his example the kid may have an easier time learning, and remembering the word cow but it may be a while before they fully understand concepts surrounding what a cow is. An adult hopefully already knows what a cow is so they just associate that knowledge with the foreign word for cow they just learned.

>>3927230
You have to be legitimately retarded to think that you can't learn as much as a 5 year old in a fraction of the time.

>>3927082
What made me really interested in learning Chinese is Taiwanese puppet shows.

lol at all the eop arguing

>>3927253
/vr/ Japanese threads are always the same thing. EOPs desperately trying to convince themselves that learning Japanese is impossible, not worth it, too time consuming, for "weebs", etc.

>>3927274
Occasionally somebody asks for help.
I'm a bit disappointed there hasn't been more info on learning Chinese. Confucius saying you learn it by knowing it doesn't cut it.

>>3927280
Why would you learn Chinese?

>>3927280
Chinese is just a bad idea all around. The only people who promote it are chinks who want you to waste your time.

>>3927280
Why would you want to learn Chinese?
It's only useful for business, and Chinese are opportunistic enough to learn English themselves for that.

>>3927251
>Urobutcher does it again!
Does he actually design any retro gamus?

>>3927289
>>3927297
Wuxia, classic novels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_JKQmtLiV4
I'm also curious about Chinese retro games.

>>3927251
Oh, I've seen some of those. Those are actually interesting.

>>3927328
His first work was Phantom of Inferno, released 2000-02-25. It also had a DVD player port.

>>3927052
>all of your bases received CATS.

>>3927371
wwww猫二匹

>>3927251
Thunderbolt Fantasy movie this year. Season 2 early 2018. Can't fucking wait.

>>3927117
"u mad" really destroyed online discourse

I taught myself english to play videogames and shitpost on anonymous memeboards and little else, but I can't imagine my life without it. I don't believe learning a language is a waste of time!
You don't even need to dedicate precious hours of your life to study, you can just consume untranslated media on a daily basis, supposedly something you enjoy, and the language will come to you over the years.

>>3927898
Japanese doesn't work that simple though, you need to torture yourself with actual studying and route memorization.

>>3927914
I don't know, anon, I'm playing RPGs without guides and with only jisho on hand to look up the less common kanji and I don't think I've ever had to "torture" myself. The amount of time I've spent actually studying Japanese has been exactly one afternoon that I spent memorizing the kana on Realkana about 5 years ago.

>>3927274
Nobody in these threads tell other people to not learn Japanese, they just give their reasons for not learning, on the other hand people who supposedly learned/are learning Japanese insist and practically beg others to learn it.

Not everything is an excuse, there are legitimate reasons not to do things. Our time in life is limited and we can't possibly be trained under every skillset, we must ponder what we want from life and direct our paths towards those goals.

Also I couldn't possibly be EOP even if I wanted since English is not my first language.

>>3927927
>I have no idea what I'm doing
>the post

>>3927129

Maybe if you learned enough Japanese to play Gunparade March, Over My Dead Body, etc. you would still care.

>>3925172
Where can I find that fancy Google Translate OCR on PC? Google ironically isn't giving me clear information so spoonfeed me.

>tfw a little more than halfway through Tae Kim and around 350 words into Core2k

The honorific form seems like a huge pain in the ass, I'm not looking forward to having to memorize all this conjugation.

>mfw having to learn a whole new set of politer kanji and conjugation for the same verbs

These threads are always shit.

>>3927956
If your time is so limited, do you really need to spend it on explaining that your time is limited?
Best you stay out of threads about Japanese games or /vr/ as a whole.

>>3927956
>reddit spacing
sigh

>>3928034
Only phones. only shitty wobble camera

>>3925227
Kanji is something you have to use every day and you're not going to use it every day unless it's part of your job or you live in japan.

>>3930769
I read a manga chapter every night before going to sleep.
You even encounter kanji on a daily basis here on /vr/.

>>3929424
I used to think it was a meme, but every post I read that's formatted like this is just disgraceful

>>3930839
I'm about 95% certain that anyone who has ever used the word "ponder" in a post is a complete fucking faggot who deserves a blender haircut.

Why do all these cock-jockeys use the same words, anyway?

>>3930853
Because they all try their hardest to look intelligent and keep a thesaurus on hand at all times. Also "reddiquette" means having no originality and using the same vocabulary as the rest of the masses, or else it's wrongspeak

>>3925227
>and when you have memory of a teenager.

that's a meme, youre just lazy

>>3927014
omae wa mad

>>3925172
Rondo of blood, already played and beat
Richter is best Belmont

>non-alphabetic languages
>When you have to have over two fucking thousand characters to learn instead of 26 that you learn once and are done with
I'm sure that the people who originally invented these languages were real fucking geniuses.

>>3925717
Pic.
>>3932095
>3 (three) different sets of symbols
>can't even make L or V sounds
Not forcing all countries to use the latin alphabet was a mistake.

>>3932095
It's not like English is any better. It's a bastardized version of German with an inconsistent pronunciation system.

>>3927103
>reddit spacing
sigh

>>3932158
>can't even make L or V sounds
Japanese has a special set of V characters used for loanwords in katakana. They are ヴァ, ヴィ, ヴ, ヴェ and ヴォ.

>>3932095
Korean is great in that regard, you learn like 13 or 14 consonants and you can read 90% of all words.

>>3932158
The kana are derived from the kanji and not entirely different and they all use the same sounds.
Japanese is too dependent on kanji to properly work without them, that's why kana only games suck.

>>3926596
>it's like asking ESLs why they play games in English instead of their own countries dub

w-what did he mean by this? I'm ESL and consume all my media in english to learn more but also because the same stuff is often poorly translated into my language

>>3932215
> the same stuff is often poorly translated into my language
English translations aren't really much better.

It's best to remain ignorant about the original source of translations, they're always terrible when you actually read the original later. Especially since games aren't translated by lifelong academics.

>>3932397
>specially since games aren't translated by lifelong academics.
Given his education, O'Smith is what you might call an academic and his localizations are literal rewrites full of made up lines that aren't present in the original scripts of the games.
Being an academic doesn't help if you don't have the moral code for translating thing, studying translation ethics means nothing if you gleefully ignore all of that.

Truth is those who want to make a living by translating things should take some kind of oath like doctors do, but the average joe doesn't really care about actual cultural integrity other than made up bullshit like "white culture" and """"traditions"""", so it's something that will only be relevant to small circles of nerds, until some kind of political party can use it to their advantage obviously, which I doubt it will ever happen.

Truth is learning a language is always the best choice.

>>3932430
If I was going to do any translating work, I'd probably wind up making up a fair few lines.

The languages are just too different to get anything even CLOSE to 1:1. Preserving general meaning and flow is about the best you can manage as a fucking master of the craft.

I'm not a good writer, which is why I don't translate. You have to be able to rewrite to translate, or you end up with some of the worst work out there.

>>3932165
Are there any good reasons to learn Korean?
I've had very little contact with Korean media.

>>3932437
>I'd probably wind up making up a fair few lines.
One thing is making up a few lines for the sake of conveying something unique to the messenger to the recipient, that is also hardly necessary most of the times by the way, another thing is adding completely original stuff that wasn't there to begin with and being a ghost writer, O'Smith is one of those people who do both things, and he doesn't really care about integrity, he literally says his idea of localizing is rewriting a script as if it was made by english speaking people for english speaking people, which is enough to make any serious translator either raise an eyebrow or laugh.
He's not the worst offender when it comes to this anyway, but he's one of the most idolized for some reason.

>>3932174
>Japanese is too dependent on kanji to properly work without them, that's why kana only games suck.
I can play through most of the Famicom library just fine and they're mostly kana only.

>>3932158
Anon, can you try this photo?
Original may be too small

>>3932736
I don't think it had issues recognizing the characters aside from the ハザード.
The problem is that it doesn't even try to put things into context to each other.
Maybe if you recut it into a single line.

>>3927126
>>3927129
retro shouldn't be used on this board anyway

>>3932627
I can play them too but they're frustrating to read.
The Famicom is also limited in the scope of genres.

>>3925172
Just reminding you there is a ton of people on 4chan who don't need that shit

>>3935738
The normalfags still far outnumber the turbo weebs though.

>>3925172
Reminder the only reason to learn Japanese is to play nongame Visual Novels, boring generic shallow JRPGs or watch modern moe Anime.

>>3925172
I want to play alot of jp only saturn games with this

>>3935749
On /vr/ most normalfags know at least basic Japanese. Most people who don't are underage and/or frogposters.

>>3935920

I'm gonna make a very bold statement here, but this is by far the single most delusional post on this entire godforsaken site at this exact moment in time.

>>3935920
are you gaggin for a slap you mate? stfu

>>3935942
>>3935956
>>>/v/

>>3936006
Nigga you go back to /jp/ with you're useless language.

Useless shitty language only good for playing subpar JRPGs, try doing something productive with your time, fucking weeabos.

You can acquire Highschool level fluency if you study 1 hour a day for 2 years!

>>3935942
Younglings often mistake stupidly with boldness

>>3936043
Feel free to show us wrong.

>>3936305
Who is "us" kiddo? You and a few other underage who don't have high school level fluency in English?

>>3936475
The people of /vr/.

>>3936574
>one underage from /v/
FTFYK. You don't speak for all of us. Probably not even any of us.

>>3925172

>Just reminding you there is a ton of great JP-only games

like?...

>2017
>he doesn't know Japanese

>>3938025
>>3936574
>>3936475
>>3936305
>>3936043
Why are you two even arguing over something so inane.
>>3938027
London Seirei Tantei-dan, Sakura taisen, a bunch of goemon games... Wonder Trek, stuff you haven't even heard of. It's neat exploring.
>>3938030
Knowing Hiragana doesn't equal knowing the entire language, dumb frogposter.

>>3938039
Goemon is the only non JRPG thing in there and you can still experience MOST of it without knowing the language.

>>3938043
Willy Wombat then. I can't think of stuff off the top of my head, man. Tokimeki series. There's tons of shit out there... Wait, I think you can play Willy Wombat without any Japanese language knowledge actually.

>>3938047
>Tokimeki series.
Shitty VN dating sim. I'll pass.

>>3938060
How DARE you. It is THE Shitty VN dating sim. not to be scoffed at.

>>3938043
>Goemon is the only non JRPG thing in there and you can still experience MOST of it without knowing the language.
You'll lose out on some of the humor. Plus SFC Goemon 3 is virtually impossible without some knowledge of Japanese.

Were Nekketsu Seishun Nikki 1 & 2 (the Rival Schools school life simulation games) on PS1 ever translated?

>>3938187
Oh god, no. They never were. Fuck the localization team for just NOT bothering to translate any of that.

>>3938039
Why do you think that's two people arguing? It's a couple people telling one fool who thinks he speaks for everyone he's a fool.

>>3938205
Oh, I see. Sorry, sometimes I just instantly assume it's two anons have a discussion, never taking into account someone else might have jumped into the conversation unless it's clearly stated.

>>3938039
What do you consider inane, obtaining significant literacy by studying one hour per day for two years?
People who've done it say it's possible, people who haven't done it say it's impossible.

>>3925172
>Google Translate app has image translation
And I just came from a 3 week vacation in Japan. Shit

>>3938758
Why would you go to a country where you can't even speak the language?

Everything in the tourist trap areas has English on the signs anyway, so it wouldn't have been much use.

>>3938792
Why wouldn't you? It mostly worked fine anyways. Still would have been useful as fuck.

>>3925172
>>3925172

So get a tripod for your phone and play the game while looking through the phone screen. Sounds like a pain but probably worth it, You don't have to push any buttons do you? It just does it automatically? Because that would be a pain. How long does it take to translate usually?

>>3925172
Maybe now there will be a good translation patch for Thracia 776.

>>3932736
>>3932158
Take a picture (red button), then it will prompt you to select text for translation.

Select text, and it will translate it much more coherent.

>>3938814
Translation takes well under a second and it's automatic The phone on a tripod thing sounds pretty retarded but an android box with a capture card might work. You'd get something like 1/2 a second delay but for text heavy games that's probably ok. If not you could switch between the raw video and android video.

>>3925172
this sounds like a scam

>>3932736

At that time, the greatest bio-hazard (biological leak) occurred in history, where bacterial weapons under development by the former Soviet forces "Lucifer α" leaked into the atmosphere.

>>3940742
Can you provide a screenshot?
How does it handle wall of text?

So why has noone created a program that reads japanese text and super imposes the english meaning on the screen.

this would be great for emulation

>>3940993
Because OCR isn't as perfect as you want it to be.
We have tools that try to identify characters and show fitting dictionary entries.
http://kanjitomo.net/

>>3941005
Thanks.. maybe I should try to play shadowrun SegaCD with this. I've been waiting 10+ years for a translation

>>3941013
It should work if you know some Japanese. There's not too much street slang or archaic speech involved.
Familiarity with places around Tokyo is also helpful.
Personal and Corporation names can be a bit tricky to get used to. I wasn't expecting 渕 for Fuchi and 三浜 for Mitsuhama.

>>3941064
Im fucked then.

Semi-related: I feel like ShadowrunCD is a gimmick translation teams use to gather followers.

They all announce they are going to translate it, then do absolutely nothing for 5 years before the next team "picks it up"

Mean while these teams are also working on like 20 other games translations. Nobody is ever dedicated to just translating shadowrun.

I'm trying to figure out the term for this, but it escapes me.

>>3941075

The term is "bullshit", Anon. English translation teams are absolutely worthless these days.

Unprofessional, lazy, entitled, and uncommitted.

>>3941075
Scam or bait and switch.
The game is quite buggy and text insertion is a bitch. Not to mention Mega CD translations in general are nonexistent.
I don't know why they don't try to reimplement it with a different engine.

>>3941064
What would you read 三浜 as usually? Mihama? 渕 I can understand because it's not a super common kanji, but fuchi is still the common reading, did you play something else where it was part of a different name?

>>3941013
OCR is trash, if I tried to play a game with something like kanjitomo, I'd probably kill myself. It was just barely passable a few years back for machine translating the odd manga bubble.

>>3941090
It's a lot of work, people get bored, and its for something that has a potential audience of maybe 500 people worldwide. It's pretty dumb to call amateur work "unprofessional".

There were just as many failed projects in whatever time period you consider as the golden days, westerners being lazy cunts is hardly a new phenomenon. You just only see the actually finished products from then.

>>3941185
Mihama seems more popular.
Mitsuhama is one of the Mega Corporations in Shadowrun, they also show up in the Genesis game.

Kanjitomo is good for looking up the odd kanji you can't identify as well as serving as a quick dictionary.
It's not really supposed to allow machine translations.

>>3926669
I want to be able to read common stuff (newspapers, manga), watch NHK, game spoken dialog and text and possibly understand YouTube videos in Japanese.
What do you recommend as the basic material?

>>3941098
Is there any way to compress the text so that it can fit more characters on the textbook? I know Bionic Commando and Faxanadu on the NES use smaller fonts than the FC versions.

>>3941863
Half-width alphanumeric instead of full-width is a start.

>>3941075
You're not as fucked as you think. The anon who wasn't expecting 三 to be pronounced mitsu in a proper name has very limited japanese experience and seems to have managed perfectly fine.

>>3941090
>people who don't translate a game for me for free are entitled
Irony: The Post

>>3942727
I think you're misunderstanding something.
I was expecting the cons to have Katakana names like nowadays we have トヨタ or マツダ.

>>3943105
oci. Like 三菱. lel
Or sticking with the car theme, 本田. more lel

>>3943193
Sure there are companies with traditional names. For retro we have 日本電気, 任天堂 or 富士通 but if I read 渕 my first thought is that it's an abyss and not the fictional company.

>>3925779

Chinese is related to Japanese roughly as much as it is to English, that's why.
They are completely different languages that not by chance happen to use the same graph- system- because the Kanji originated in China as the Hanzi, Japanese needed a writing system, China had one with the Hanzi- so Japanese "borrowed" them. At first a character stood for a syllable but since that lead to drawing those complex symbols over and over they quickly began to get abbreviated more and more- thus the Hiragana and katakana appeared.
So no wonder these seemingly close languages are actually a nightmare to learn even when already knowing one of them.

>>3925312
The individual readings are important, but a lot of people fuck up the learning process, trying to learn the readings to kanji rather than the words they represent, and then trying to reason what the reading of a new word should be.

What people SHOULD do is be aware of what the kanji means, learn the reading of the whole word, and then be aware of the pronunciations for future reference. That way you're not filling your brain with useless/rare readings and you're actually doing vocabulary study at the same time.

>>3943572

So you say, skip the on-readings as they are only used in composites and learn the kun- readings?

>>3943584
Don't learn readings; learn words. You don't need to know all the possible readings for 生, you need to know words like 生きる, 人生, 生じる, 生まれ. That's not to say you should just ignore readings, but by learning them passively through vocabulary you'll start to subconsciously associate the kanji 生 with the on-reading せい, for example.

>>3943584
Well ideal study plan, you'd get a word using the kon- reading and another using the on- reading, so if you come across a new word you can take a few guesses. More imortant than those though, you want the common reading as it's actually used because you want to learn words, not memorize a dictionary entry. The catch there is you don't really know what's common because you don't speak the language.

I guess the point is you want to be aware of the sound a kanji CAN make instead of trying to infer the sound it WILL make, because you'll run in to exceptions a lot and you want to stay engaged with what you're reading instead of having to constantly stop and look up how something is pronounced.

so.....is anyone going to actually recommend a list of jp only games that are worth playing and not too hard to translate using google?

>>3941825
Core 2000 covers the most common words and phrases. Use that as a base to add your own vocabulary as you encounter it.
https://djtguide.neocities.org/
https://apps.ankiweb.net/
https://mega.nz/#!QIQywAAZ!g6wRM6KvDVmLxq7X5xLrvaw7HZGyYULUkT_YDtQdgfU

>>3943327
Which is why I told the other anon it might not be as hard as he thinks if someone as inexperienced as you managed to enjoy the game.

>>3943510
I learned Japanese first and knowing a lot of basic characters and the rough pronunciation of many made it massively easier to learn Chinese. They are very much related.

>>3945301
Is there any way to distinguish names from actual words aside from context?
A lot of names don't make sense as words or use unusual kanji but some cases aren't that obvious.

>>3945436
As you get more proficient in Japanese and don't have to sound out kana to read it context won't be such a chore for you.

>>3945436
If it's a game set in Japan, they usually attach honorifics to their names (eg. -san, -kun, -hakase, -sensei, ect). Not always though, since honorifics are often dropped for friends. For games set in western or fantasy settings, they usually use non-Japanese names obviously.