/vr/ - Retro Games

I dunno man, games like Super Mario 64, Ape Escape or Panzer Dragoon are pretty great still today.

Saturn was arcade port shit

>>3906446
which was a godsend back in the day for people who weren't near arcades and before emulation existed

stupid youngfag

>>3906449
So for like six people then?

>>3906435
>3rd gen

>>3906415
>games have aged

>>3906415
Yes it was too early but there was no stopping it because everyone was apeshit over 3D. The PC-FX was a great 2D console, like a supercharged PC Engine CD, but it failed harder than the last time you tried to learn japanese.

I think that in general 3D and compact disc storage were mistakes no matter what.

They allowed developers to play movie director.

It was all very impressive good artstyles
5th gen has nice graphix

>>3906415
no, thats just how new game technology always works
look at the Atari as 2D (see >>3906493) and the Virtual Boy as VR

>>3906493
>sega saturn
>full potential of 2D
>neo geo exists

>ps4
>full potential of 3D
>pc exists

Shit list, my man.

>>3906546
huh? saturn was better at 2D than the neo geo

>>3906415
When is that guy going to release the Flashcart for Saturn?

>>3906549
No it had the potential to be, but it certainly wasn't.

>>3906560
prove it.

>>3906546
considering no one has made a high end PC game to surpass the AAA games on PS4, PS4 is currently wearing the crown in that regard.

Saturn is also better than Neo Geo.

>>3906558
this year actually. He's got a patreon page for funding since he has a kid so, deciding between working a real job and then seeing his kid, or getting a hobbyist project done and seeing his kid, he chose the latter hoping it would also help fund him. I think he made the right choice.

>>3906570
Nice, im buying a Saturn soon then before reseller scumbags jack up the price.

>>3906579
they started climbing since the project was announced last year. I think you should get on it soon, try to go for around the $65-50 rangeish. I think that's a good price for ebay shit.

Otherwise, yard sale season is around the corner, can't hurt to hunt, right? Assuming you're American, a lot of saturn's didn't see heavy use out here for obvious reasons, so you've got a really clear path forward for working, good condition systems that at best need a bit of cleaning up from dust.

>>3906415
>aged
why do I keep seeing this retarded word being used here and /v/

>>3906598
Yeah ill pick one up

>>3906546
>Shit list, my man.

I was considering consoles only. Arcade and PC hardware progressed on totally different timescales, and I skipped the Neo Geo because it's basically an arcade board in a plastic case.

I also thought about leaving the full potential 3D space blank, because 3D graphics still have so much room for improvement.

>>3906415
Too early? Hell no. If consoles had tried to stick to 2D for another generation then they would have been massively behind PCs even more than they already are now. Also, the aging issues with PS1/N64 games doesn't come from the graphics but their controls. Considering the SNES already had some 3D games expecting the N64 to be another 2D only machine is dumb.

>>3906568
>considering no one has made a high end PC game to surpass the AAA games on PS4

TW3? Ps4 is garbage that can't even do 4k.

>>3906971
He mentioned games, not cringy HBOshit.

>>3906971
and it still manages to look worse than games that are designed exclusively for the PS4's literal 2012 laptop tier hardware. Uncharted 4 fucking decimates the witcher 3 and frankly, it's pathetic that PC hardware is literally in the 6 to 8 times more powerful range yet nobody has produced a game that looks better than what a 2012 laptop could theoretically handle. It just shows the platform is fucking dead. doomed to a fate of console ports and indie shit.

>>3906493
This just in: graphics get better with every generation

>>3906965
5th gen should have been 2.5D

>>3907040
Congratulations on missing the entire fucking point of that chart, which is to demonstrate that graphics took a big step backward (well, sideways really) around the 5th gen. We went from top-tier 2D to shit-tier 3D because polygons were the shiny new technology at the time.

That transition was inevitable and ultimately for the best, but in retrospect, it means that 5th gen graphics are a VERY mixed bag.

>>3907086
>OK 3D: PS2
>good 3D: PS3
>great 3D: PS4
Well whoop de fucking doo

>>3906415
>n64 community
The best community except fucking resellers.

IMO they needed that shit generation so they could work out the bugs. You ever do like a rough draft before you do the real thing? That's what the N64 generation was

>>3907186
fixed it.

>>3906415
Yasuna on the front page?

>>3907215
The real point is, this chart shows shit, really. It doesn't show a timeline, and gives very subjective definitions of what's primitive or not. It's good for Facebook to show to your dad.
Also, 3D is a rabbit whole and we don't know how deep it goes. 20 years ago FFVII's FMV was seen as mindblowing—today it's being lampooned. 10 years ago PS3 seemed like a logical ending of 3D. Today its launch games seem like garbage is comparison. 10 years from now PS4 graphics will be considered lame, with awkward plastic people and overly shiny poorly animated models.

>>3907250
To be honest I think most modern games look just like 7th gen stuff with bigger resolution and some more detail, but the "wow effect" just isn't there in the 8th gen. 4K is just a bigger HD.
Going from SD to HD felt kind of like a proper upgrade, maybe, but nothing will ever top the transition between 4th and 5th gen.
Another thing that chart isn't having into account is that art direction pays a big role in how we perceive graphics.
SMB3 is "Passable"? Fuck that, it's fucking timeless. I even like its aesthetics more than the SNES remake (not bad, but it's lacking some details the NES original has, and looks more generic, slightly).
3D is trickier but I think some early 5th gen games like Crash, Mario 64 and Panzer Dragoon still look good, I dig these aesthetics even today. More primitive 3D would be stuff like Star Fox, I Robot or wireframe stuff in vectrex.
6th gen was a nice upgrade, with proper 3D without weird shortcomings like weird texture warping, and again thanks to art direction some games are timeless, Wind Waker still looks good, Okami still looks good.
7th gen felt less of an upgrade, but still noticeable. 8th gen I really don't think it's that much different than 7th. 4K makes a difference, but not even that many games are real 4K and still it's just more resolution.
IMO the problem with 3D is that most people (both devs and public) want to see photorealism, and I think it simply won't happen , they can try their best, and sometimes it's impressive (crysis, etc etc) but ultimately there's always going to be uncanny valley, especially with human characters.

TL;DR art direction and clever work around limitations > raw graphical power

saturn has aged terribly because all the games worth playing are arcade ports, no reason to play them today when you can just play the originals

>>3907281
I know, right. Back in 1997 I was playing Nights and Panzer Dragoon in arcade, why did they even make the console

>>3907293
I said "games worth playing"

>>3907293
Any Saturn game that isn't an arcade port aged worse than anything on PS1 and N64

>>3907250

>3D is a rabbit whole

That's good, cause I fucking hate those partial rabbits

>>3907204
Last I checked, N64 stuff was still pretty cheap, comparatively. I mean, there some games going for 50-60 bucks, but compared to SNES, where there are a plethora of games in the $100+ region right now, it still seems reasonable.

Games do not fucking age, they are either fun or they are not.
Yes, the graphics may look worse compared to modern technology, but that doesn't change the fact the game will not magically become unenjoyable just because graphics have improved over time. Something cannot lose the ability to be fun over time and if they do, it is because your own personal bias or jaded feelings towards things you used to like. If you can still enjoy "some" NES games, that just means the ones you don't enjoy are bad games and always have been. Same thing for PS1 or N64 games. This is such a shitty topic and anyone genuinely believes "x game aged like milk" is some kinda fuckin retard. You either have fun or you don't.

>>3906493
>maturation
Wtf do you even with that?

Obviously Primitive, Passable and full potential have their obvious meanings but maturation?

>>3906984
The PS4's actually got a better GPU than my main PC, but a worse CPU for games that rely on single thread performance.

>>3907752
Exactly.
They literally are a fucking retard if they say something like that, except I don't really mean to insult mentally challenged people implying these cancer-infested minds are like them. Their thinking process is just fucked.

>>3907780
My PC's got a Radeon HD 7770 and an Athlon 860k overclocked to 4.2GHz. Odds are, GTA V probably looks better on PS4 due to better optimization and less overhead.

>>3907281
>>3907495

>>3906453
>>3906446

> Not appreciating arcade perfect ports
> Not appreciating arcade quality graphics consoles have been trying to emulate for years up until that point

Go play back to playing your xbone faggot

>>3907902
>arcade perfect ports
>saturn

>>3907923
There was virtually no difference between arcade
X-men vs SF, SFA3, VSav and their saturn versions save really minor details.
Gameplay and animation frames were all there.

>>3907923
>I don't know what I'm talking about

>>3907926
could you explain what "virtually" means in that sentence?

>>3907928
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/virtually

All the core elements that would make a port "arcade perfect" are there: Same content (even more content in some cases), all the same features, full animation frames, same performance as the arcade game.
The minor differences would be small variation in the sound due to the Saturn soundchip and the (very very short thanks to the extra RAM cart) loading times.

>>3907934
thanks

>>3907926
>save really minor details
If only. Saturn ports removed infinites from XvSF and added console exclusive characters to A3 (all of whom are banned in competitive play, a la Link in SoulCalibur 2). Arcade perfect console ports of Capcom fighters didn't exist until the DC ports of Marvel 2, ST, and CvS2, as well as the PS2 ports of 3S, VSAV, and CvS2. Most of their other fighters (including HF and XvSF) never got such ports and probably never will. For these games, your only non-FBA options for arcade perfection are a candy cab or a supergun. Of course, you could just blindly worship the Saturn like the rest of /vr/ and willfully ignore the truth. You can't run tournaments at all on those jank Saturn ports (or the DC port of 3S, while we're on the subject). The Saturn doesn't even have a decent fightstick like the MAS or the green goblin.

>>3908049
>Saturn ports aren't arcade perfect because they fixed balance issues and added characters

>>3908094
t. '09er stream monster

>>3908096
What does that even mean?

>>3908049
>as well as the PS2 ports of 3S, VSAV
Vampire on PS2 suffers from input lag though.

>forgetting the best Saturn arcade fighting game port
Shame on you, /vr/.

>>3908108
I mean it's obsolete now with the HD port (which is approved by Dustloop for competitive play), but at the time it was the best version available

>>3908114
>but at the time it was the best version available
I don't know why since the Saturn version doesn't have input lag.

>>3908119
PS2 is lag free in training mode

>>3908138
>in training mode
there are tournaments for training mode? how do they work?

>>3906415
Fixed your image anon

>>3906435
got a template?

Speaking of 2d fighters, is the ps2 Vampire Collection good? I am looking into retro fighting games, and I was wondering what the best way to play most of the vampire series was.

>>3908596
ps3 darkstalkers collection

>>3906415
Ya gotta learn how to do 3d at sometime. It's an entirely different skill set than 2d. Also it took time for good tools to develop.

>>3908621
yeah the HD port is as good as console ports get. Vampire Hunter is neat from a historical perspective, but it is a terrible competitive fighter. Bishamon has an option select with his command throw wherein the throw always hits because Capcom forgot to maintain throw immunity during blockstun and during hitstun. Vampire Savior, on the other hand, is a good game from both a casual and competitive standpoint. If you wanna play online, just play it on Fightcade cause the console online for VSAV is dead as a doornail.

>>3906453

Yeah, that's the total amount of people who bought a Sega Saturn back in the day.

If people were as smart as OP, they would have bought a Saturn so they could buy a $60 import cart to play near arcade perfect SMUPS released ten years previously.

>>3907934
>virtually arcade perfect.

So, not arcade perfect, then. All three of those, virtually arcade perfect....

>>3906560
Stop judging the games on shoddy Neo Geo ports, retard.

>>3907758
It's the process of becoming "mature", or fully developed.

>>3906415
It was a good time. Early PS1 games looked crude as fuck but you could see it evolve over time into something really amazing. And it was using the same machine too.

>>3906415
how old are you? shitty 3d blew everyone's mind and moved games, christ, people didn't create all their games for navel gazing on a laotian cooking forum 20 years after they came out.

no i don't because when i saw 2.5d/3d/wireframe 3d, my stomach dropped and i wanted to play it.

>>3907758

Developing prominent secondary sexual characteristics as well as an ability to successfully reproduce.

>>3907758
It's a word used in sex Ed

Underage b&

>>3908657
Well, let's say every arcade port said to be arcade perfect that isn't on a PCB is "virtually" arcade perfect because they all are on discs, and discs have loading times. So.

>>3908621
Can the HD collection be played full screen without borders on a CRT at the original SD resolution?

>>3906415
>posting a moog for the n64 sound

just top yourself

It really depends on the developer, which made good looking games all the more impressive compared to what else was out there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQkUOdow3nk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZrFm1RNl6Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFcCgAL-jXg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dac9yLt0Jys

>>3906415
Fixed.

>>3906435
Fixed.

crash bandicoot on the PS1 was actually the breakthrough for 3D. At first when it was shown at a conference no-one believed it was running live on PS1's. The game was so advanced for its time that engineers at sony couldn't replicate it since everything was written on raw metal without the use of external libraries.

>>3909104
>he fell for the "Neo Geo is a console and not an arcade board" meme

>>3909113
It is only talking about the AVS, not the MVS.

Theres also this.

>>3909118
i like this one, lots of tasty bait.

>>3909120
What bait? I see no bait.

>>3909098
>>3909104
>e-celeb memekids

Disregarded.

>>3906415
I think that no matter how late they'd have waited on 3D it would be "too soon". It was a new frontier for programming. Shit would have looked shit no matter. You need the hardware to do 3D and you need 3D to know where to take the hardware.

>>3906415
Why would it be "too early" if everybody loved it back then and it sold like crazy? Also primitive 3D and pre-rendered backgrounds is the GOAT aesthetic.