/vr/ - Retro Games

What causes the hangs in alpha 2?

Is there any emulator/hack that gets rid of it? I don't care about "accuracy"

>>3803920
fightcade

Damn I love the SNES

>>3803919
would have been a beast of a machine if they would have gone with the m68k as originally planned

>>3803983
Explain.

>>3803919
That's not a SNES.

>>3803919
The single most overrated retro console in existence.

>>3804000
the original super famicom hardware was supposed to have a Motorola 68000 to make arcade ports easier. The tight asses at nintendo decided it was too expensive so they went with the cheap ricoh instead. Not sure if an m68k Super Famicom prototype actually exists.

>>3804127

>>3804127
That's not an N64, senpai.

>>3804146
Unfortunately this^^^

>"sness"

>>3803983
Citation? My understanding is they with with the cpu they did due to compatibility with the 6502 instruction set and easy porting from the NES.

>>3804079

it sure is fellow anon; that depiction of a snes existed before the blocky US-version. No hate here, I actually like tboth versions (even had both as a kid)

#blessed

>>3804179
>Citation?

too lazy mate. If i recall it right it was an old miyamoto interview on the prototype stages of the superfamicom. might have been on shmuplations, might have been somewhere else. Do share here if you find it.

Prefer the Mega Drive but the sound is 20x better on this.

>>3804227
SNES chip can't even do Fart Modulation. It's a piece of shit.

>>3804184
No, it's an abomination.

>>3804179

"The system as originally designed was way too expensive to be produced in a version affordable for the average consumer, let alone cost-effective for Nintendo. On top of that, project leader Masayuki Uemura was unable to meet Yamauchi's demand that the new box be back-compatible with the NES. The back-compatability feature was eventually abandoned; however, that only saved about US$75 on the anticipated end-user price tag. The chief culprit of the cost was, of course, the all-new graphics and sound processing suite upon which Yamauchi insisted. Designed in anticipation of the coming multimedia boom, it drove up the cost of the system so much that Nintendo was again forced to cut costs elsewhere or scrap it and risk being left behind. The problem was eventually solved by installing a slower CPU - a Motorola-based WDC65816 CPU - instead of the faster 10 Mhz MC68000 that Uemura originally intended. This meant that the new box would not be that much faster than the NES itself, so a math coprocessor (as cheap as Nintendo could cobble together) was thrown in to ease the processing strain a bit.

A very rare and obscure piece of gaming history trivia I have only ever seen mentioned from this source. Basically it is saying that SNES was originally intended to use a Motorola MC68000 processor (same as Genesis) that ran at 10Mhz (vs 7.67Mhz Genesis CPU) but ended up with a custom 65816 running at 3.58Mhz supplemented with a coprocessor.

It's curious and sad to ponder the dream machine SNES could have been, essentially a Neo Geo class machine (Neo Geo had a 12Mhz 68000). The whole slow CPU curse would have never existed and MD/Genesis probably would have not amounted to much against SNES forcing SEGA to come up with a 32bit system (likey still 2D based) before Saturn.

Sadly, you can see Yamauchi's hardware crimping, cost cutting decision go way back (even to famicom). Very sad Nintendo always limited hardware by making it as cheap as possible."

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?480964-Gen-vs-SNES-SNES-s-quot-lost-quot-10-Mhz-68000-processor

>>3804171
>ESSANYESS

>>3804985
I don't buy the citation. A link to a forum that links to a dead site.

I have never heard talk about a 68k being considered in the SNES. The backwards compatibility angle is well known, and this implies that from the outset Nintendo was focusing on using the 65816. If a 68k was ever considered, it would have been so early in development that it never got out of the ideas phase in the R&D lab.

The 68k is faster, but does less per clock than the 65816. While the 68k was a more powerful processor, the margin isn't large enough that the 65816 can still beat it at some tasks because of an impressive array of addressing modes. Moreover the SNES has hardware to make up for some of the 65816 shortcomings, like having dedicated multiplication and division hardware to make up for the lack of MUL and DIV instructions on the 65816. Nintendo is also known for on-cart peripheries to extend the system, which greatly expanded the computation power far beyond anything on the Genesis, such as the 21.4MHz heavily pipelined SuperFX2. Even without co-processors, the SNES graphics support was much better than Genesis, and the sound unit much more flexible, but I guess that's besides the point.

Which is the best retro console, for someone who only plays video games that are Rated E for Everyone in the ESRB?

>>3805157
Not the SNES. E for Everyone didn't come around until late in the N64's life.

>>3805112
>Super Nintendo
I'm not a fucking nerd.

best console desu

>>3804079
That's the PAL SNES.

I prefer the Japanese version, though.

>>3803919
My God the North American SNES was an ugly blocky pile of shit with an equally pathetic logo.

The Jap Super Famicom and PAL territory SNES look so much better. Gorgeous.

>>3804985
>Very sad Nintendo always limited hardware by making it as cheap as possible.

Yeah, although it could be seen as smart business. That was Nintendo's MO in those days - have a low entry price point for the hardware and then fleece the install base with the cost of software.

Nintendo would cut corners to keep the cost of hardware down. And then once a consumer bought it, they had little choice but to pay through the nose for the games (I remember SFII being about half the price of the console.)

Nintendo would often stuff the cartridges of all their consoles with extra chips to make up for any technical shortcomings of the hardware.

Dick move but shrewd business.

>>3805153
>The 68k is faster, but does less per clock than the 65816
100% less IPC in the absolute most unfavorable circumstance. 25% less IPC in most circumstances. Doesn't mean much when the CPU is clocked 100% faster.

>the 65816 can still beat it at some tasks
Theoretically (assuming half the clock speed), but at an EXTREMELY limited number of tasks. Realistically, never, because SNES memory was shit-tier.

>like having dedicated multiplication and division hardware
Which nevertheless was slow as shit and due to shitty registers was unsuitable for vertex processing.

>which greatly expanded the computation power far beyond anything on the Genesis, such as the 21.4MHz heavily pipelined SuperFX2
Except the Genesis had the SVP chip used in Virtua Racer which blew the SuperFX2 out of the water.

>the SNES graphics support was much better than Genesis
Except it isn't. It had way worse support for different graphical formats. That's one of the reasons a lot of SNES games had abridged content - they couldn't fit all the sprites in due to the bulky format the SNES demanded.

>>3805584
This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read on /vr/.

>SNES memory was shit-tier.
wat?

>due to shitty registers
wat?

>they couldn't fit all the sprites in due to the bulky format the SNES demanded.
wat?

> SVP
Granted I never knew this existed, probably because only one game used it, but looking at the (scarce) information, it seems it's just a beefy coprocessor with some extra memory amd a DMA unit. It seems pretty comparable to the SuperFX2 minus all the rendering hardware.
http://notaz.gp2x.de/docs/svpdoc.txt
http://notaz.gp2x.de/docs/SSP1601.pdf

Something tells me you have no idea what you are talking about.

>>3805441

It makes even less when looking at the blocky toylike famicom and the gray box nes.

>>3805750
>wat?
Nintendo actually put memory with an 8-bit bus, giving only 2.5 MB/s of bandwidth compared to Genesis which had pretty much the same memory running at the same clock speed but with a 16-bit bus, resulting in ~5.0 MB/s of bandwidth.

>wat?
Literally a single 16-bit and a single 8-bit register for multiplication and division. Hell, the SNES CPU in general only has four 16-bit registers and four 8-bit registers. Compared that to sixteen 32-bit registers in the 68k. To do anything even moderately complex (say, vertex ops), the SNES is going to be hammering its equally shitty memory cause its registers are anemic.

>wat?
SNES's PPU mandates shitty bitplanes for virtually everything.

>It seems pretty comparable to the SuperFX2 minus all the rendering hardware.
There is no real rendering hardware in the SuperFX, there's just a polygon to tile converter, which the Sega SVP also has.

By the way, the Samsung DSP can do one 16x16 multiply per-cycle. It requires the SuperFX five cycles to do the same thing. Also the Samsung DSP has a 16-bit external bus, compared with an 8-bit external bus on the SuperFX.

It's quite obvious the SuperFX is an lower-specification part.

>Something tells me you have no idea what you are talking about.
Something tells me you are projecting :^)

>>3805202

I call it the FuckBugger 9000

>>3805825
Much better now that you've substantiate your statements.

> Nintendo actually put memory with an 8-bit bus,
The bus is 8bit because the 65816 has an 8-bit bus. It has nothing to do with the memory wired to it.

>SNES's PPU mandates shitty bitplanes for virtually everything.
Both consoles use a tiling scheme utilizing bitmapped chatacters. Characters (ie 8x8 pixel tiles) are defined in a bitmap format with a name table to map the tiles to the screen with a palette and maybe some other things like HV flippling, if available. Both consoles offer a wide variety of graphics modes, however the Genesis's modes were mainly for backwards compatibility, while the SNES's modes offered different combinations of number of background screens, background color depths, and special effects.

The SNES set it's bitplanes to 2-bit, 4-bit, or 8-bit depending on the mode. In this sense, the SNES had much more flexibility in being memory efficient than the Genesis, which relied on strictly Mode V, which only offered 4-bits I believe.

The SNES PPU was just all around more capable than the VDP in terms of flexibility and special effects, mainly color addition/subtraction and Mode 7, but also in the wide variety of graphics modes you could choose. You could have up to 4 backgrounds on the SNES compared to the 2 on the Genesis (of course, they are only 2-bit, but that's why it's called a Super NES).

>There is no real rendering hardware in the SuperFX,
It has a few features like dithering, but yes, it's not like it draws lines and polygons with specialized hardware.

>It requires the SuperFX five cycles to do the same thing
You can configure the processor to do it in 3 cycles. Moreover, correctly taking the pipeline into account, it may have a latency of 3 or 5 cycles, but once the thing gets going multiplications pop out every cycle. Granted, it's a pain in the ass to program the SuperFX because of this, but it's not a detail that can be overlooked.

>>3806656
1. Yes, the external bus is 8-bit, which is why Nintendo should have ran RAM at double the system clock. But they didn't.

2. Genesis has support for chunky pixels so you can mix bit depth inter-sprite, which is far more efficient. SNES doesn't support something like that. Nobody, however, disputes the SNES PPU has support for more hardware-level special effects.

Unfortunantly when the CPU and RAM bandwidth are so anaemic, the SNES is ultimately quite limited in its throughput.

>>3806882
What do you mean by "chunky pixels"? Like the sprites could have variable bit depths on the same scan line?

I can't think of anything tied to RAM except the CPU and the DMA controller. Since DMA suspends operation of the CPU, it wouldn't matter if RAM could be accessed twice as fast because only one thing could be using it a time anyway. Am I forgetting something?

Does Genesis suspend its CPU when doing DMA?

>>3803919
A truly unimpressive piece of hardware, games lag with more than a handful of objects, much like the nes before it, to the point where they had to put extra chips in the fucking game carts to make it not shit itself, and that picture being of a 50hz piece of trash is the cherry on top

>>3806953
>What do you mean by "chunky pixels"?
I think this post explains well what I was getting at.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?9265-For-the-Tech-Guys-Planar-vs-Chunky-Pixel-organization&s=67afcc2ed4c9fde7d3bc432a12b1e9ce&p=305613&viewfull=1#post305613

>Since DMA suspends operation of the CPU, it wouldn't matter if RAM could be accessed twice as fast because only one thing could be using it a time anyway. Am I forgetting something?
Yes, if the RAM is faster, than the CPU will leave the halt state sooner.

>Does Genesis suspend its CPU when doing DMA?
It also does.

>>3803919

I emulate SNES these days because the controller is too small for my hands

Is there a better SNES racer than Rock 'n' Roll Racing?

SNES-101 a cute

>>3807058

>>3807024
Are you an ogre?

>>3805202
>SOOPER NINTINDOUGH
americans don't actually say this, do they?

My wife hates the SNES!

>not having had a SNES while growing up in the 90s

I feel sorry for the anti-SNES shitposters like australien-ken

>>3807215
to be fair, why would anybody own a SNES in australia or hell, any PAL country?

hardly any snes games got releases over there, while sega treated PAL countries like royalty

Which version should I get?, a jap or an american one?

>>3803919
When the fuck are HD retro vision cables going to be in Stock again

>>3804253

okay duuuude, probably never held one in rl

>>3808082
If your TV has scart why not get a SNES to RGB scart cable instead?

anyone know what the best snes to usb adapter is? looking for the least amount of lag

>>3808147
That's a strange time/date. What country are you from that you write dates like that? What's that in English?

>>3808486
Probably a Raphnet adapter

>>3807024
What kind of hands do you have?

I'm 6'8" and have huge hands but the Super Famicom controller is pretty much okay for me.

>>3804171
i say snez

>>3809618
Same

>>3807110
yes just as much as we say Seguh Genesuxx

>>3805153
dude, there is an interview somewhere where one of the nintendo hw devs admits they planned the super famicom with a motorola cpu, cant find it, i dont care if you believe it or not, should i ever come across it again, i will share it here

>>3808678
usb or gamecube? i have a gamecube to usb adapter but not sure how much lag chaining them would cause

>>3805153
dude, there is an interview somewhere where one of the nintendo hw designers admits they planned the super famicom with a motorola 68000 cpu, cant find it, i dont care if you believe it or not, should i ever come across it again, i will share it here

>>3809995
They do SNES direct to USB which would be your best option. The Raphnet adapters are very low (if any) lag.

http://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/snes_to_usb_cable/index.php

You could also try the iBuffalo USB SNES clone pad, it's as close as you can get to the real deal, but they only do Super Famicon/PAL style.

Who else SNES mini + RGB mod + csync restore master race?

>>3804127
>overrated retro console in existence

GameCube

>>3810113
That's not the N64.

>>3810113
>>3810128
>overrated

At this point what does this buzzword means? "I don't like it"? Anything else?

>>3810113
Gamecube isn't retro nor is it overrated.

Now, PS1 and PS2? Those are actual overrated systems for having a mostly mediocre library.

>>3810081
thank you, i will save up for the raphnet adapter. i already have a real snes controller from childhood.

>>3810113
Not retro. Not overrated.

Fuck off

>>3804985
What's the thing it's calling a Famicom in the lower right?

recommend me a fucking snes game to play god damn
literally anything that's not nintendo because I've played all their shit

>>3811979
Marvelous

>>3811985
I can't read runes

>>3811994
then get the translated rom, retard.

>>3811947
I think those are actually both SuFami prototypes, the caption is just wrong.

>>3812001
One of them is actually an earlier version of the A/V Famicom that was cross-compatible with the Super Famicom's peripherals and A/V output.

>>3803919
Man, why didn't the US get that SNES? It looks so much better. Same with the ugly VCR that was the original NES. I'm glad we got the toploader, but I wish we got it originally so the carts could be Famicom/SNES sized. Did they ever state a reason for the change?

Also, TOP FIVE GAMES GO
>Chrono Trigger
>Super Mario RPG
>Super Mario World
>ALttP
>Final Fight 2

>>3812024
As opposed to the Famicom/NES, the size of the SNES and SFC isn't really different, only the shape and colors is.
I think both look pretty nice, personally.

>>3812026
I mean, the US SNES doesn't look horrible, I just think the PAL/NTSC-J one looks way better. It looks more streamlined to me.

That said, I just wanna know why they changed it at all. Especially for it, since it is such a small change.

>>3812036
>That said, I just wanna know why they changed it at all. Especially for it, since it is such a small change.

I forget who it was at NoA, but there's video of someone saying the Super Famicom looked like a loaf of bread, or something along those lines. Pretty stupid in my opinion, also what the fuck was with the purple buttons?

>>3811979
Tin Star is fun.

>>3812013
Well sort-of. It was a Famicom Adapter for the Super Famicom, but it was basically fully-functioning Famicom with A/V output that could connect into the Super Famicom's A/V input ports.

>>3812042
From my understanding, a lot of people used the original NES as a coaster for drinks while playing games, which ended up damaging the console during spills. They deliberate gave the Super NES a different design because of that.

>>3812042
>I forget who it was at NoA, but there's video of someone saying the Super Famicom looked like a loaf of bread, or something along those lines.
Got a link to that video? Never heard of it. There's also another urban myth that says NoA made the SNES square because americans rested their cups and mugs over the console and you can't do that on the SFC which is a bit curved. Sounds like bs to me but hey, it's funny. But I never seen any source to it.

>also what the fuck was with the purple buttons?
I don't know but I think the combination of grey and purple is very classy, and also love the 2 different shades of purple on the convex and concave buttons on the pad.
Come to think of it, it looks a bit like Yotsuba B colors.

>>3806989
What a civilized discussion. At first started off as though it were going to turn into a shit show but calmed down and became informational as fuck