/vr/ - Retro Games

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yXwbN--6udQ#t=243s

that's all i have to sya to you

>>373752
>I could never get past this part in Sonic 3 as a kid

You had to be a fucking idiot to not figure out to press up and down on a controller. Just fiddle with the buttons and you would eventually figure out what to do. That's how it worked for me when i was 7.

>>373772
I knew this was going the be the first reply. If not for you I'd have posted it.

>dem floors in Castlevania II

>>373812
The problem is that you can get passed the first one by jumping up and down, so most people assumed that's how you were supposed to do it.

>>373812
You can get really close to to where you need to go if you jump on the barrel. At no other point do you need to use up/down with another barrel, not even to access secret areas.

Because games back then didn't really introduce new mechanics mid way through the game. What controls you had is the controls you used. Left right jump. When you first get to the barrel, you notice that jumping on it makes it go down and jumping off at its apex gives you a super jump. So that is the assumed solution.

Majority of the time, people who go "How did you get stuck there?" Are people born in the early 90s.

If we're speaking about legitimately bad game design and not just shit some people might have trouble comprehending, not having the option to run by default in FFVII. It's a huge inconvenience that exists for no reason.

>>373838
>Early 90s

Sonic 3 came out in 1994, you're more likely to be told how to get by that bit by folk born in the 80s.

>>373842
Also the devs fucking knew this was going to be a problem, particularly because they added a check point AND a door that closed right after you.

>>373812
Better watch out, you're gonna hurt some precious motherfucker's feelings and he will begin to whine about how not everyone's skill level isn't the same and blah blah yeah fuck you /vr/

Final Fantasy II. I don't think I need to elaborate on this one.

>>373868
I was trying to say that the people who whine about other people being stuck there are people who had access to more variety of games that expanded on their control schemes who first experienced Sonic 3 around the 2000's.

>>373853

>holding a button while you move
>a huge inconvenience

Come on, really? There must've been a fuckload of other JRPGs that didn't have the option to put it on auto either. Something tells me you're one of these hipsters who hates FFVII because it's popular.

Do I have a story for you:

Obelix for the Game Boy.

In one stage, you have to open safe doors to find a friend of yours by using barrels full of explosive powder. To do that, you push the barrels past a torch to ignite the fuse, and then let it stand before the safe to explode. Naturally, they'd explode after some time after being ignited anyway, so depending on from where you ignited the barrel you could only reach certain doors.

Some barrels are down in the cavern vaults, some are the in the upstairs room which you have to push down the holes that connect both rooms. The barrels upstairs respawn, the ones downstairs don't. You have to open all doors as your friend will always be in the last one you open.

Sometimes, when I'd use a barrel to open a vault, I would get a buzzer noise and the level would restart, leaving me wondering what the heck I did wrong. Here's the thing:

The non-respawning barrels downstairs are only allowed to open the safe doors that you could otherwise not reach in time with the barrels from upstairs. I only found that out later, and the game never hints at that. I had no manual to look into either, but I doubt it explained this level.

Also: if the level restarted like that you wouldn't lose a life, but the timer would still leave you with the time you had when you made that mistake. Regardless of whether it's possible to finish the level

>>373957
How popular are the obelix comics and games in pal territories? I always see them mentioned.

>>373947
I like FFVII but Square had no excuse. The walking speed is slow as fuck, but the game has tons of screens that you are expected to just go through because there is nothing to interact with except for random battles. Why not make WALKING the mode you press an extra button for? Please.

I think letting people save anywhere they want is bad design in most games. I can understand it in games like Skyrim where by it's nature you can play for hours and not accomplish anything that would warrant a savepoint, but in almost any other fps I think it kind of kills the tension. Like in Stalker, or Max Payne. There's no need to be careful, or to care if an area might be dangerous before charging in. Just tap quicksave.

>>373972
Popular enough for several games.

hardcoregaming101.net/asterix/asterix.htm

>>373752
The japanese rusemen who made the game did this intentionally. Notice the door that closes behind you. Not to mention this is the only path to finish the damn level.
I suppose they were thinking anyone and his mom could solve this kind of puzzle, but all they achieved was a frustrating, botched trap.

>>373947
nice leap of logic there

Infinite exp loopholes in games like the original Tactics kind of ruin it for me. It's like there's no reason to level up and get stronger, because Ramza can run in a corner, use Yell for 10 turns, and eventually get 10 turns in a row that he can use to run around the map and Accumulate until he's maxed whatever his current job is. Doing this you can have just him, solo, and max every single job he can be in one battle each, just running around the map untouchable like a jackass. It's not even any work to win the battle afterwards, you Accumulate so many times that one barefisted punch fucks whatever enemy in one shot.

It wouldn't be so bad if it was like Fire Emblem and you could level a character to whatever Job you wanted them to be in an hour or two of battles, because it's not like the battles in Tactics aren't fun, but in Tactics it takes for fucking ever to get to the Job you want, and unlock the abilities for it one by cunting one.

There's a super unfun, super tedious shortcut that is not enjoyable to perform, but it's faster than doing it the right way. That I know the shortcut is there makes playing it the right way less fun.

surprise spikes, especially in the Mega Man series

when you go on to a screen and you immediately have to move out of the way because there are instakill spikes in the way that you had no indication of before you entered the screen and hardly any time to react to them, that is terrible level design

>>374063
Someone's been watching Simon's videos, eh?

World of illusion the magic box level. It required both players to press up next to the door at the same time to open but gave no instructions to do this.

Additionally when me and my sister worked it out, only one door took you to the next level the rest dumped you back at previous levels that you had to complete before getting stuck back in the again box. Most of the time you'd have to do at least 3 level again before picking the right door.

>>374071
damn right, I love how he goes into detail about what works in each level and what doesn't - he's the only analytical LPer I know of on YouTube

>>373975
THEN DON´T USE IT. TRY TO FINISH A PERFECT ROUND OF ABES EXODDUS WITHOUT SAVING ONCE.

Metropolis Zone is a mess in itself. The only "challenge" comes from being off-screened by these jerks which is sometimes completely unavoidable. Scrap Brain is pretty bad too.

I can't get under Sonic & Knuckles' design philosophy in general, it's like they wanted to fill the levels with as many pointless puzzles as possible so that you don't go too fast. I guess it's fine for people who like puzzles, but it feels like the exact opposite of Sonic 3 which was pretty much one big speedfest. And don't get me started on Sonic CD.

>>374121
Metropolis Zone having an Act 3 is one of my favorite dick moves in video games.

>>373812

I think the point was the game provides you with the illusion that you're making progress so you keep trying to do what you're doing because it seems to work. Holding up and holding down never did anything prior to that aside from being able to look up or down which was really pointless in sonic games.

>>373882

No you really do have to. FF2 was the precursor to the SaGa series which was superior to any final fantasy.

>>374035

Yeah but you don't have to even grind in FFT, of course you probably need to have a decent amount of knowledge of how the game works and you can just play through it solely doing the story missions. Of course this leads to things like having to fight weigraf at mid level 20s with a party full of chemist/timemages with guns or something, but it's still possible. And yes you will end up doing crazy shit like using geomancer/white mages so you can wreck shit with their equipment and wreck shit with holy. You also get to actually make use of a lot more items than you usually would primarily the dodge% capes and some shileds seeing as they're a life saver at times. You can do all this without using that stupid ramza exploit, but you also end up having to do stupid shit like having an all summoner team at times.

>>374121
what are your thoughts on Labyrinth, because I fucking hate Labyrinth

>>374203
Water levels are near-universally reviled, even when the water itself is not the problem.

>>374203
Not the guy you're replying to, here.

I had Sonic 1 for the Game Gear, and i could never get past that version's Labyrinth Zone. Shit was hard as dick.

>>373975
I like save anywhere games because I got shit to do in life other than play games. If I'm halfway between save points and the phone rings, or someone comes over, or the cat starts throwing up everywhere, I need to be able to stop the game and go deal with it. I'm not going to just pause it for an hour, especially with modern consoles which risk frying if you leave them on too long. I want to just save and shut it off until I can come back without losing my progress.

>>374168
>No you really do have to. FF2 was the precursor to the SaGa series which was superior to any final fantasy.

Not him, but I imagine how absolutely broken it was originally. Still my favorite leveling system done right though if played without grinding. Ideally, it reflects the play style of the gamer.

This may be a minor gripe but I hate when a game doesn't let you exit the menu screens with just one push of a button, like you have to individually exit through 7 sub-menus each time to get back to the game. This is a big problem in RPGs where you're constantly going into your menus to heal.

>>374249
oh God, I had that too, I never got past Jungle

fuck that game so much

>>374409
But anon, RPGs are menu navigation games. It's their primary form of gameplay.

>>374249
there's one jump in particular that still takes me a zillion tries in S1 GG

>>374439
I mean in it's labyrinth zone.
you have to do the biggest jump possible across spikes from a moving platform or something, but the ceiling interrupts your jump
god damn

>got stuck on Carnival Night Act 2 when I was six
>drop the game and finally beat it when I was twelve

It's amazing how fucking dumb I was as a kid.

There was an Earthbound thread earlier, and it reminded me how much grinding was required at the start. I think that's bad game design. The enemies are a bit too powerful, IMO.

>>374203
Sonic 1 is a strange case. Sonic's speed is slower, but the levels seem more linear than later installments. Oddly, I don't really find Marble Zone or Labyrinth Zone that offensive. I don't love them, but I don't hate them either. Even though they're slower, I don't really feel like I'm being forced to a stop, since Sonic's speed is slower in that game anyway. Labyrinth Zone also does a nice job of disguising some of the platforming using springs and staggered walls that make me feel more like I'm rock climbing instead of precision platforming.

Marble and Labyrinth are probably a lot emptier enemy/hazard-wise than levels like Scrap Brain and Metropolis or some of the levels in Sonic & Knuckles. I probably prefer the breakneck speed side of Sonic over the puzzle platforming side. Some games just do a better job of disguising it than others. Though at this point it would probably do SEGA good to split the series into the faster speed-type games and the slower puzzle-type games instead of trying to mix two completely conflicting styles.

>>373812
It's heavily implied that you have to use inertia to move the barrel, as jumping on it increases its movement. And like someone else mentioned you can get it very close. Add to that that never in the previous two games was there a similar mechanic. It's just terribly implemented.

>>373812
Can you please not be a patronizing Jerk?

There were many people who couldn't Figure it out, heck, my niece who originally lend me his original Genesis and Sonic 3, didn't even remembered how it got pass that part.

>>374071
>>374119
>analytical LPer

I hate to ask for this but, source?

>>374120
Both Abe games have generous checkpoint placement.

>>375009
The only thing terribly implemented is your brain.

Old games used to throw new shit at you all the time and you had to learn how to deal with them yourself.

>And like someone else mentioned you can get it very close.

And when you continued to fail to get past it, you never once thought to try something else? Continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result is called insanity, which is a very specific subset of stupidity.

>>375719
>Continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result is called insanity
Stop getting your definitions from video games.

Why try something different? The game presents it in such a way that it seems that you simply need to perform the action BETTER, not differently.

>>375624
http://www.youtube.com/user/TwinYawgmoth/videos?view=1&flow=grid

On there you'll find MM3-6, separate runs of Zero 1 on Normal and Hard (with Normal being the analytical run and Hard attempting to get the highest rank possible), MMI for the Game Boy and Donkey Kong Land.

He also did MM1 and MM2 a while ago, but they haven't been uploaded to YouTube yet:

MM1: http://bd.baldurk.org/lp/120
MM2: http://bd.baldurk.org/lp/121

Well worth watching if you're interested in how the Mega Man series was constructed, how well the mechanics and level elements work together, everything like that.

In hindsight it made sense to just do what the game told you to do.
Back then, it was a game stopping mindfuck.
Seriously, me and my friend replayed it countless times in order to try and figure out what to do. English being our third language not helping.

>>374906

In my personal opinion those stages in Sonic are poorly designed. Marble Zone I actually think is worse, because it's fairly easy and simple but still slow. It makes playing through the game again seem kinda tedious.

>>375740
(Oh, and the MM4 'Buster Edition' where he ran through the game with the Mega Buster only and got a few friends in to talk about it. It's not very good though.)

>>375740
>>375770
Thank you, I'll check it out.

>>375752
I never had a single problem with the Marble Zone. Genesis Sonic was never about speed; it's about momentum-based platforming. The speed was a gimmick, an advertising point, a bell and/or whistle, take your pick. It's like saying that the point of SMB3 is flying.

And honestly, Sonic barely moves faster than Mario does in Sonic 1. The only thing that makes it different is how Sonic accelerates.

>>375830

I get that Sonic isn't about going fast as possible, but I think the level is poor regardless. I think there's still the desire to go at a quicker pace. Pushing blocks and riding on lava, I just feel it halts all momentum completely.

Speaking of Sonic, the fact that when you died you had to start all over, instead of from the world you were on, is also a poor design choice. If you die in one of the later worlds you shouldn't be forced to have to play the entire game over again.

>>375863
>Being able to completely fail is a poor design choice
You know, I would've expected better from /vr/.

>>375863
>Speaking of Sonic, the fact that when you died you had to start all over, instead of from the world you were on, is also a poor design choice. If you die in one of the later worlds you shouldn't be forced to have to play the entire game over again.

I am agreed.

The worst part was trying to figuring out the Dr. Robotman's boss patterns. It was tedious at best like playing the game.

>>375719
Yeah, but in Sonic games its always stuff that you interact with using the game physics and your ordinary moveset. The barrel makes no sense within the design conventions of Sonic games; it's bad game design whether you could get through it or not.

Besides, how the hell is Sonic moving that barrel anyway? Telekinesis?

>>374108
ive been looking fucking everywhere for this game

the Genesis mickey games are harder to come by [offline] than youd think

>>374121
>Scrap Brain is pretty bad too.
Are you kidding? Scrap Brain is great. None of the hazards are unfair; it's all cool shit like flame spurts and sawblades and conveyer belts and crushers. Made it feel like the level is actually trying to kill you, which is how a final level should feel. Most of the other Sonic games felt like Robotnik just went around designing giant theme parks for Sonic's amusement.

Since difficulty curves count as design as well...

>In Dragon Warrior, going from area to area causes the difficulty to jump in such a way where you can't advance to the next area until the enemies in the current area are trivial to you.
>In Battletoads, level 1 is easy, level 2 isn't half bad, but the difficulty sort of skyrockets after that.
>In Earthbound, after you actually get to Onett the first time, it's virtually impossible to progress unless you level a few more times

>>376395
the first time i played an earthbound rom (maybe 2010), I though it was the antipiracy that made all the enemies really hard

sue me, i was a genesis kid during my childhood...

>>376395

the beginning of earthbound is bullshit. i dont know what they were thinking.

>>375830
Genesis Sonic was about a lot of things. It was fast when it wanted to be and slow when it wanted to be. Sometimes they threw you a complete curve ball and gave you something like pinball or gravity-switching. For some people the speed was the most important aspect, for others it was the puzzles and platforming. I think it's more a matter of preference.

>>376448

It was fairly common for RPGs of the time to have difficulty curve bullshit. Balancing was still something that wasn't quite even close to perfected.

Speaking of,
>Almost needing to grind to defeat the second boss in SMRPG (Croco, was it?)
>The first and second gym leader battles in Pokemon RBY. The first was just terrible if you started with Charmander. The second, you at least had the chance to get a grass type from a nearby route, but Starmie is still kinda stupidly strong.

And not entirely difficulty curve related,
>In DKC 1, in the ice world, you have to beat like 4 or 5 levels in order to be able to save your game. If you didn't, you got sent all the way back to when you last saved.

>>375749

How DO you get past that dead end in the second to last level with the green dude? I never figured it out.

>>373752
I was six when this game came out and I got it.

My thought process went something like:
>Well, there's nothing up, so I have to go down.
>Jumping doesn't seem to work, you can't time it right.
>Can I just press up and down on it?

>>373752
>Experienced
Heavy Unit for the MD. The 1st level has apparently indestructible and unavoidable cannons that you have to fly through.

>heard about
The Reset Button bullshit in X-men 1 for Genesis.

I don't know if I would call needing to grind bad design. I mean it definitely sucks, but I imagine it's very hard to design an RPG and predict how every player will progress, what level they will be at and when, and so on. You can make your best guess and have your testers give you feedback, but sometimes people will get to places earlier than you hoped so they'll have to grind to balance it out. It's pretty rare to find an RPG that doesn't require any grinding at all. It's just one of those things that comes with the territory.

>>376649

>>375719
Read:
>Up and down never did anything in Sonic games.

>>377951

I think, if you engage in every battle you come across, there should be absolutely no need to grind. Yet a lot of RPGs still force you to fight more, which I think is absurd.

>>373752

Congratulations, you've learned how to troll /vr/

>>378081
I'm sorry you lacked any sort of reasoning skills as a child, but not everyone was afflicted the same way as you.

>>377951

to me it depends on the game and situation. someone else brought up earthbound. at the beginning of the game you have to grind several levels to really progress at all. now i think thats just bad design.

>>378130
I never had to grind in earthbound.
maybe you just sucked at it?

>>377951
I know what you mean.

It's bullshit if I want to speedrun and RPG but constantly get my ass handed to me because I sped through the first areas without and problems and finally get to a part where enemies start one hitting my team just because my levels are too low. It's like if I was playing Super Mario Bros. and the game won't let me progress to the second world because I didn't stomp on enough goombas or koopas or collect a mushroom or fireflower.

Further example: I love Seiken Densetsu 3, but goddammit, that level 18/38 requirement just to class change is tedious as hell, especially if I know what I'm doing. Enemies in the Moonreading Tower/Beast Kingdom will eat you alive if you aren't a decent enough level to handle them. Poto oils be gettin' thrown every time I see a Seiryuu Death Fist, which is all the fuckin' time.

>>378154

Oh fuck are you bringing up the bad memories. I use a very oldschool cheat program and an emulator to tell these grindfests to eat shit. I just gave myself 60000 exp, so fuck you, Phantasy Star 1!

What RPGs require you to grind?

>hurr jumping doesn't work
>what do I do? There are no other buttons except the d-pad
>guess I'll just complain about it for the next 15 years

I swear the barrel was a test concocted by Sega to weed out the window-licking tards.

>>378186
Only one that really comes to mind is Dragon Quest.

>>378182

it's funny because Sonic still has a huge following of autists

>>378182
troll harder.

>>378220
That explains why they're still whining about this simple barrel.

I've never played Sonic 3 but usually when games introduce new mechanics they do it in a way where you learn quickly. DKC games do this really well. Notice at the beginning of the level they introduce the concept in a very simply, non-threatening way....

>>378103
Hey, that's actually a pretty good idea.

>engage in every battle and you'll pretty much be exactly where the devs want you
>make the option to run an item that's semi expensive/rare so players can't stock up a fuckton
>make encounters in areas that are a lower level than you less frequent/non existent so forced battles against babby enemies don't get annoying

I'm sure there's some flaw in my logic that makes me a retard, but fuck you.

>>378231
No just trolling back to /v/

>>378220
I'm not going to argue that but any serious theories on why that is?
Is it with same with everything anthropomorphic or is it just Sonic in particular?

>>378270

It has to do with the character style. Autists like easily identifiable, childish, and colorful characters. For more information, >>>/mlp/

>>378260

i thought most gamers fought every battle in RPGs anyway. most people only run when they're almost dead

>>378270
there were some pretty well written theories i saw on /v/ awhile back, but i didn't save em

general gist is, though: universe full of easy to draw, similarly looking cartoon characters that each fit a painfully stereotypical cliche. autists find this all easy to cling to and understand, and immerse themselves in the universe with their recolors and generic fanfiction stories (all with a hint of autism, of course)

>>378270

Sonic has a clear personality. Whereas Mario really has none. yeah i know that doesn't illuminate much but its something

>>375730
>Stop getting your definitions from video games.

It's an extremely common definition of the word.

>Why try something different? The game presents it in such a way that it seems that you simply need to perform the action BETTER, not differently.

No it doesn't. The barrel keeps springing back.

>>376332
>>378102
>The barrel makes no sense within the design conventions of Sonic games
>Up and down never did anything in Sonic games.

And like I said before, old games threw new things at you constantly. All of the buttons do the same thing, you can't move left and right on the barrel, by process of elimination you only have two options left. If you got stuck on the barrel it is simply because of your inability to try different ways to solve a problem, which makes me wonder just how you got through any other game from that era.

>>373752
Funny. I got past it just fine and I was a ADD kid in 94. It felt natural to just move up and down on the control pad. Jumping off however...

>>376569
>>In DKC 1, in the ice world, you have to beat like 4 or 5 levels in order to be able to save your game. If you didn't, you got sent all the way back to when you last saved.

This stopped me from ever beating the game as a kid because there was a jump in the 2nd or 3rd level that I just could not reliably hit, so I'd waste all my lives getting past it and not have enough to get through to the save point. As an adult I went back and played DKC, I got all the way to the last boss and the game fucking froze. I reset the SNES and my save file is gone. I haven't played the game since.

>>378307
>No it doesn't. The barrel keeps springing back.

You can get it to go down farther and farther by timing your jumps right. If you didn't notice that it makes sense that you'd start trying other random buttons. Maybe that explains why some people got it so easily.

>>378102

Up moves the screen up, essentially looking up.

Down moves the screen down, essentially looking down.

That's not really nothing, and it's an easy correlation between these and moving the cylinder up and down.

>>378334
Give it another try, you can beat it in less than 2 hours if I remember correctly, it was a short game.

>people getting stuck on that barrel because they lack the ituition to realsie that pushing up and down makes something go up and down

You're all genetic failures.

>>378379

I will someday. The freezing incident was like 8 years ago but I'm still bitter about it.

>>378378
>That's not really nothing, and it's an easy correlation between these and moving the cylinder up and down.
It's far from an obvious correlation when you consider >>378368

The game unintentionally shows signs of progress, despite the fact that the player is performing the wrong action. If you're unaware of the correct way, there's no reason to try something else since the feedback from the game suggests that you're doing it correctly.

>getting stuck on that barrel
>bad game design

More like bad brain design. Don't blame the developers for your stupidity.

ill ask here

if i want to play sonic 3...should i just download sonic 3 and knuckles as one game for an emulator? or should i play sonic 3 and sonic and knuckesls sepereatly?

>>378428
S3&K together, absolutely.

>>378428
Play them as one game.

>>378419
>The game unintentionally shows signs of progress, despite the fact that the player is performing the wrong action. If you're unaware of the correct way, there's no reason to try something else since the feedback from the game suggests that you're doing it correctly.

It quickly becomes obvious that jumping does not work, when you are unable to time the jumps due to how the cylinder moves.

Call it experience from other games, but it quickly became obvious to me that you had to build its inertia by timing up and down presses.

Also swingsets. How a playground swing works influenced my button timing, because its mechanics are basically identical to the cylinder.

>>378428
S&K is an expansion to S3, designed to be played together with it.

>>378480
>It quickly becomes obvious that jumping does not work
The problem is that it DOES work, and is actually possible without Tails there fucking up your jumps. Just saying.

I am always skeptical when someone says 'its hard so its badly designed' thats just complaining you can't beat it. Maybe you just suck.

If you can say something is easy but still badly designed than that has a lot more arguement to your weight.

>>378492
But it's not quick, and if it's not a quick solution in a sonic game, it's probably not the correct one.

>>378426
2/10 stop trying.

>>378510

Stop being bad at video games and I will.

>>373972
I'd assume that Astérix is fairly popular in any French-speaking community.

>>378618
back to /v/ we don't need any more trolls here.

Not even CWC was retarded enough to get stuck there, OP.

This leads me to believe this is a troll thread, since a retard of 'that' caliber wouldn't be able to make the thread

>>378458
>>378464

What's the difference? Do they intertwine or is there a clear point where 3 ends and S&K begins? I tried playing it now, got through the first world and got a game over in aqua city....Seems pretty cool but also really frantic, kinda weird how the levels begin right away

If you go towards one wrong direction, you're fucked. It's all just memorizing where to blindly fall and hoping you get that one pixel correct.

Funny enough I didn't have a problem with OP's pic because whenever something doesn't work after I try 3 times, I start mashing buttons.

>>378684
but that's kind of a fun part

>>378682

When you see mushrooms, you're in S&K.

>>378658

What in the fuck are you talking about? I'm not trolling you. Not everyone who disagrees with you on the internet is a troll. I just don't see how something so intuitive baffled so many and I don't see how that's the developer's fault. Jesus Christ, what a fucking child you are.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the "arrows" on the barrel yet. Those are designs, using the same colors that are pretty common in the stage, that decorate the barrel and nothing more. They don't look like arrows, and if they were meant to be arrows they should have been a different color and more distinct. It is bad game design. The solution isn't even hinted at in anyway, using buttons that no player has used, beyond spindashing at any point in the game. Also, if it take button mashing to discover the solution that is bad game design.

>>378718

But they aren't arrows; they're diamonds.

>>378704
back to /v/...

>>376523
Thing is that if a lot of the level in 2 or 3 is slow platforming, then you're not doing a very good job. This isn't to insult you; this is a legitimate claim, and how the devs designed the game.

Going fast is fun of course, and the devs punish you for messing up by making you not go as fast. When you're hit you lose momentum, have to gather rings, and are often forced to lower parts of the level (which are typically the slower parts).

Genesis Sonic IS about going fast, it's just that it takes skill to go fast for extended periods of time.

>>378741
>Maybe if I keep saying it he'll flip his shit and leave.

And I'm a troll.

>>378684
>file name

Just keep trying man. Although I don't like when games force you to memorize hazards to stand a chance this part is one that can be done with quick reactions. I played mm2 for the first time a few days ago, and I only lost one life here. I'm pretty sure you can use Flash Man's weapon to freeze time and avoid those if you really want though.

I don't understand. You don't even need to know how these work to progress. It takes only a few seconds to jump up and get on the next platform.

>>378428
Yes but don't play vanilla S3&K. Play a romhack known as Sonic 3 Complete. You get all the levels, the better Sonic 3 invincibility/miniboss/live themes, some fixed bugs, and the ability to switch from S3&K, S3, Blue Sphere minigame, and S&K all from the main menu in case you just want to play all those separately

>>378771
Yes you are back to /v/

What the fuck? Pressing up and down on those things doesn't do shit. Well it seems to do something but its not like down goes down and up goes up. It seems pretty random actually.

>>378771
>>378813
Both of you shut the fuck up and stop shitting up this board.

I don't want "go back to /v/" to be the next "go back to leddit", and "you're just underage" is not a proper insult

>>378813
You're not adding anything to the thread.

If you don't like what he's saying, ignore it. Don't shit the thread up with your "Hurrrf go back to /v/" over and over.

>>378823
HOLD up when the barrel is going up, and HOLD down the duration the barrel is going down.

>>378684
This part (and similar parts in other Megaman games) are the most stressful, nerve-wracking things ever. I mean, fuck.

This level was shit anyway. It was obviously just to have another level like Casino Night because that proved to be really popular. The music in this level fucking sucks.

>>378813

Dude, I'm not the one saying the same shit over and over. You really seem like you're trying to get a reaction. I had an opinion and I voiced it. You don't like it? Fine, tell me so and tell me why, but don't just label me a troll because you can't handle it.

>>378831
>>378836
ok go back to /b/

>>378802
Does it remove the barrel?

>>378864
that's nice i don't give a shit problem?

>>378885

Yeah, OK. Confirmed for troll. You're the reason this board will become just another /v/.

>>378852
Act 1 is good. It's a big nonlinear level that flows nicely and works really well, and the stage gimmicks are cool. Act 2 just drags on though; you get tired of hearing the music by that point and it does a lot of stupid stuff like turning the lights off, which introduces a truly awful palette change.

Wow, what fucking bunch of fags.

Everything you can´t figure out is bad design now........

>>378892
Nope.avi

>>378906
No matter how hard I tried, I always had a "Time Over" when trying to beat the boss. That was my only real issue.

>>378974
Actually yeah. The timer was a really stupid feature in Sonic games; a 10 minute timer counting down makes no sense -- you'll either finish well within the pointless time limit or if it's a long level you'll die pointlessly and get frustrated because there was nothing you could do about it. I get that they want to have a timer to reward you for completing the level quickly, but it should have been for score purposes only, with no time limit, and it should have been counting UP, not down.

Wow, it´s like I never left /v/

>>379028
The more you bring it forward and give the people that do it attention, the worse it will get.

That's not even the most bullshit thing in all of Sonic

The first boss of THIS on the other hand..

I have a personal, deep seeded hatred for a handful of the block and/or mirror puzzles in the Soul Reaver series. While some of them are actually easy, they are tedious and require trial and error type stuff compiled with difficult platforming and level navigation.

The games for me were all about story progression and seeing the next cutscene or hearing the next monologue from Raziel so, these puzzles were particularly frustrating.

>>379056
Oh please, like you couldn't get past that.

>small space makes you guaranteed to be hit
>reward means little in actual game progression
>yet there it is

Bad level design, ladies and gentlemen

>>379056
>you have to fight every boss with 0 rings
Oh god, that fucking game. The developers were trying their hardest to be assholes when they came up with that one. When I was a babby, getting past that boss was a god damned accomplishment.

>>379057
Jesus, thanks for making me think of all the time I spent pushing blocks around Anon. Of all the pages to cop ideas from why did they borrow from Tomb Raider? The puzzles were seldom even difficult, just time consuming as fuck because Raziel takes a year and a day to move blocks around and some puzzles had many blocks to move.

>>376638
No Joke. You literally have to hit the reset button on the console.

>>379069
I never played Duke, I loved Duke 2 though.

>>379069
There's only a few spots that are problematic and you should really be able to survive through it. That spot you have in your picutre, not even a fucking problem, shoot the shit before going in or just ignore it if you're terrible at games.

>>373772
>cutting out the awesome set up and boss intro

c'mon, that was hilarious the first time I watched his playthrough.

>>379069
To demonstrate just how not there it is. Have this picture of the same exact spot, full health free to jump in and take all of two seconds to clear.

The physics mechanics as well as the tools you had to work with. I remember renting this from my local library and having a goddamn hard time.

>>382391
I bought that game used and it came with no manual. It took me years to figure out how to select items.

To this day I've never beaten the first level.

>>382391
you rented genesis games from a library wtf

>>382436
Yea, our public library still has actual Nintendo games still hanging out for rent, a few SNES and some n64. Mainly new gen console games now

>>382341
You either need to be kidding yourself, or putting too much faith in small two man dev teams if you think the large portion of old PC games weren't just slapped together.

>>382451
whaaaaaat? what old games are they still renting out?

>>379062
I could

And then you have to try and hanglide

>>382593
>demonstrate the fact, not opinion, that the original poster was not only incorrect but completely incorrect.
>get bitched at with strawman not pertaining to the discussion at hand.
Fuck off.

>>382598
LoZ, Link to the Past, a few Mario games. They have FF Chronicles for PS1..tempted to borrow said game and lose it and then pay a nominal fee. games are in great condition too.

http://www.lclsonline.org/

>>378378
>Gee I'm standing on this barrel and want to look up but not go up, meanwhile jumping on it gets increasingly closer to letting me advance

>>382762
>They have FF Chronicles for PS1..tempted to borrow said game and lose it and then pay a nominal fee.

You do realize that game is still in production and costs $20 brand new, right?

>>379415
>having to push blocks
>having to FLIP boxes properly
>boxes with mirrors on them
>single light source mirror box puzzles
>no indication of what to do or how to do it.

>>375009
>you can get it very close
You can actually do it, I did.

"Stairs" command, good luck if you are in a cave and out of torches.

Seriously, you don't need a command to enter towns and caves, you just stumble into them, why not use the same damn routine for the stairs

>>382846
Really, most of those commands did not need to be there. If I press A in front of a door, I probably want to open it instead of talking to it, taking it, or somehow using it as a flight of stairs.

>>382846
Because fuck you, that's why.

>>382846
so much bad game design

old DQs are unplayable crap and the newer ones are just crap

>>382963
But that's like, your opinion, man.

>>382846
>>382881
Those games evolved out of command-line input like in really old adventure games, it was just the established way back then, I suppose.

>>378248
The problem is that they DID introduce this 'new mechanic' earlier in the stage, but you could get past it by jumping on the barrel. Thus it made sense to people that you had to jump on it, because jumping LOOKED like it would work, and earlier in the stage, it DID work. There was never a point in ANY sonic game up to that point where you had to press up.

I don't know what you call it, but when an enemy latches onto you like a parasite and you can't shake them off, can't kill them, and they continually drain your health. And not the obvious parasite enemies like slimes you would expect to be sticky, I mean ANY enemy. AVGN points this out in his Metal Gear review if you want to see exactly what I'm talking about. I hate that shit.

Let's keep talking about barrels.

>>379056
That's because the gamegear's resolution is lower than the Master System's (the original version), so you can't even see what you're doing half the goddamn time

I always thought it was bad design in the DKC games, when the button to dash is the same button to pick up items. Sometimes I died on accident because I ended up dashing when I was trying to pick something up.

Also, when you get hit in mid air, it's really hard to aim your Kong to land in a safe area. It's hard to be sure of where it's going to land.

>>383241
This. This is the worst.

I blame excess amounts of health. Devs can't kill you if you have a ton of health and invulnerability after taking damage. So they take your recovery time away and enemies start juggling you or just walking you to death.

The Guardian Legend, I love you, but that was some bullshit.

>>374121
>Sonic CD.
Huh?

>>375863
Yeah, S&K can be quite long as well. At least 1 and 2 had easy to access level select codes, and 1 was pretty short too. Only had 6 worlds I think.

>>373812
Then there's this asshole. There's one of you every single time this discussion is brought up. It's totally counterintuitive and illogical if you're actually good at the game. It makes more sense to jump at the apex of the barrel's height and have Sonic's weight drive the barrel down.

In fact, in my most recent playthrough (where I just finished getting all the super emeralds in S3nK), I actually couldn't get the barrel to move with up and down, mostly because tails was being a fucking homo. But instead, I jumped perfectly in sync with tails to exploit the physics and got it to dive WAY below where I could get it as a kid.

It can be done either way. One was unintuitive and broken. The other is bullshit hard. Yeah, it's no fucking wonder people have trouble with it.

>>378379
Yeah, I went and replayed it recently. Had decent memory of some of the harder levels and finished it in 1:20. It's a really short game, and I've been able to get it down to about 0:45

>>389160
>It's totally counterintuitive and illogical if you're actually good at the game.

This is true and honestly, no bullshit, I wouldn't be surprised if people who got stuck on the barrel actually had a higher average IQ than people who got through it. Sadly this study will never actually be done, but we can speculate.

>>388987
If you play Sonic CD the way the game WANTS you to play it, it's pretty much the opposite of GOES FAST

>>390614
Not IQ, but more correlated with people who tend to use intuition. IQ != intuition

>>390624
I was mainly just trolling because of all the dudes in here maligning the intelligence of people who got stuck on the barrel, while my super-smart neighbor got stuck on it and then went on to excel in a bunch of scientific disciplines. I got stuck on it as well, and my SAT scores are pretty damn good.

To be completely serious though there probably isn't any IQ difference. The Wisconsin Card Sorting Test would probably be a better measure to show a difference between the two groups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Card_Sorting_Test

Some levels of Doom and Doom II are really bad with keycards. I've killed every single monster in every part of a level and I can't advance because I can't find the next keycard, or I have a keycard but there's no door to use it on. The automap is great in smaller levels and mazes, but it doesn't help much in large maps with a lot of close-together twisty passages (the walls blend into eachother and it's hard to tell which passage leads to what).

>>374906
You sound like you might be European

Unfortunately, you were the only ones who got a slowed down Sonic 1. You really ought to emulate that shit and replay it.

>>378298
I wrote some analysis of why autists love the things they do a while back and will repost it for our benefit

There are 5 common franchises enjoyed by autistics, one of which was created by an autistic so is clearly just pure autism fuel:

>Sonic
>Pokemon
>Tokusatsu genre heros: Power Rangers, and by extension Super Sentai and Kamen Rider
>MLP
>Thomas the Tank Engine

What is interesting is the large amount of fanbase crossover between these properties. I am only familiar with the top 3 on the list. The common points I have noticed are:

>>390760
>Expansive universe
This is great, you can create your own characters and stories that mesh well with the established canon. Each universe has a rich mythology to draw from with a complex set of rules/interactions that one must adhere to. Autistics love canon and they love rules

>Large cast
Plenty of friends/companions for the bludgeoning autistic. Furthermore, a large cast accommodates fan-characters more easily. All of the above franchises regularly expand their roster, so an autistic can invent their own trainer/Rider/recolour just as easily. In addition, the large cast presents many opportunities for them to fullfil a need for companionship that they are not able to acquire in everyday life. They can see a main character with lots of pals or their character can "make friends" with established characters.

>>390763
>Loner characters
This speaks to the autistic's awareness of and comfort in their own isolation. The main characters of these franchises can fit many roles; often they are loners, often they have a small number of really good friends or often they have good friends with whom they fall out. This allows the autistic to come to terms with their lack of compatriots and define it in terms they can accept, be it a lack of those people understanding them, "one day they will understand me" or "I don't need them/they are dumb/they are holding me back". Often, a series' main will transition between these statuses in the course of their story.

I think that these three characteristics go a long way towards explaining why autistics like Sonic so much more than Mario, for example.

>>373853
If that inconvenienced you then goddamn you're a lazy mother fucker. Seriously.

>>390763
>Large Cast
A lot of that is having every available option for people to identify with, also; aka 'pick your waifu mode'. The trolls from Homestuck (all zodiac symbols- what's your sign?) and to a lesser extent the Magic: the Gathering bradywalkers (which one are you?) contribute to this as well.

In addition, part of the problems with Carnival Night barrel was that if you pressed up/down on the D pad, there was no transfer of momentum to Sonic, if he jumped at the peak of the oscillation, it would behave like a normal stationary jump. If you built momentum with timed jumps, that would end up propelling you further at the peak of the barrel's movement. This is confusing in such a puzzle, as it harkened back to Sonic 1 and 2, where the seesaws would propel you higher depending on how hard they were struck by your first jump

The inconsistent application of physics on the barrel is what bread the confusion

>>376349
I hired it once as a kid, it was grand.

>>390791
Yeah, the puzzle really doesn't make much sense in a game like Sonic, where usually you interact with everything using the game physics. I have to reiterate what I said in another post:

>how the hell is Sonic moving that barrel anyway? Telekinesis?

>>378334
Didn't Arino have the same problem?

>>390736
Every time I load a rom and notice the (E) sat next to (U) I still get annoyed about the whole pal/ntsc slowdown thing

>>390654
I've never had a problem with Doom/Doom II.

You sucking at a game =/= bad game design.

The same applies to OP.

ITT casuals try to blame lack of skill on game design. This is exactly why the video game industry has gone to hell and why we are in the casual hellhole we are today. You are fucking cancerous tumours and it's a goddamn shame that you post here.

You should really be ashamed of yourself. I beat both Doom games before the age of 10 without a guide and never had any problems.

>>373752
I figured that out when I was seven you retard. Why are you so fucking stupid OP?

>>373880
Oh look, we got a badass over here

>>390863
Yes, because in the case of OP everyone knows to press up and down. It's just so obvious

>>390907
I figured it out at 7. I wasn't a rocket scientist then and I'm not one now for that matter either.

You're an idiot, face it.

>>390896
Oh look, we got a butthurt little precious kid over here.

I wonder:

If you find an elevator in a game, do you jump around on it and then whine about not being able to use it?

>>390919
Of course you're not; everyone knows that dumber people had an easier time getting past the barrel than smart people. You get past it by button mashing instead of trying to do it strategically.

And then this thread turned out like every other fucking thread on here.

>This game is fucking shit omg it's too fucking hard where's the tutorial level why isn't the game holding my hand

>Fucking casual how do you not figure out the obscure puzzle to find an item you need to progress in the story long after you judged it useless and sold it

>I never try any buttons when I can't progress even though there's only about eight buttons on the entire controller

>Stupid shithead it's fucking simple, how can you not know that an unmarked area copy-pasted from a thousand other areas just like it holds a critical item you need to advance

>>390978
lel, I'm the one who beat the game without cheats over here, faggot. You're the grown retard who couldn't surpass a seven year old, gg.

>>391014
>>390978
>>390940
>>390919
>>390907
>>390896
>>390874
>>390863

>>>/v/

I like how people bashing the OP. It is almost as if they feel pride in thinking they are slightly smarter on a video game when in fact they most likely got it by pure luck.

The first time you ever need to use the up button period and the only time you use the down button beside for spin dashing.

Hell brains have nothing to do with it. A smart person may think you have to do the logical thing and jump on it. A dumb person for some unknown reason decides to use the buttons.

>>390978
This anon pretty much got it right. Those who bragging that they got it the first time most likely don't have anything to brag about.

How much I like to insult the intelligent of those that actually think this matters the fact is that either you find out the hard way or get lucky.

>>390978
My solution never involved button mashing. In fact, my first real instinct was to hit down, because the game I had played immediately before getting this one was The Lost Vikings, and I figured it worked like the elevators in that. This then advanced to 'swinging' the thing up and down after a bit of trial and error. I was six.

This game is my personal demon.

while I could bitch about the amount of bullshit difficult jumps in an isometric platformer, the difficulty in determining Shadax hitbox at times, or the games overall design of "die to bullshit so you know how to get around bullshit all of that is minor to how poorly designed the continue system is.

So in Solstice you will occasionally find a room with a extra credit in it, to help you continue after you run out of lives obviously. However when you use the credit you are sent back to the room you found it in and the TIME you found it, so all progress since picking it up is lost. Since these credits stack you end up going further back in the game every continue you use.

Ex: lets say your 50% done with Solstice and have 3 continues. You continue and return to a point where you only are 35%. if you get back to 50% done and die you are sent back to a time where you have 20% done. etc etc.

The absolute kick in the pants is that the first credit is found like 30 seconds into the game so why bother even using your last continue (the first credit) because it boots you back to a point where you are like 3% done with the game. If they had made it where you continue from the room you found the credit in but still retained your progress the game would be so much better

Stairs in pretty much every 2D Castlevania

>>390972
You're an idiot if you actually think the two are comparable.

>>391148
You press up and it goes up.
You press down and it goes down.

>>391164
Yup, idiocy confirmed.

>>391164
>He's an idiot for posting exactly how these two things work!

>>373882
I play the GBA version right now. it's awesome. never played the original though. so maybe you should go for the PSP and GBA remake.

hint: it's really fucking good IMO

>>391025
those posts are so /v/ I had to check if I'm not on /v/ at the moment.

>>391171
was meant for
>>391169

I'll accept being called an idiot for mis-quoting, however.

>>391025

>>390863 is absolutely right though.
Trying to claim that Doom and Doom II have bad game design because you couldn't find certain keys or doors to which those keys belong is asinine.

>>391025
>implying there's a difference between /v/ and /vr/.
Where were you faggots posting before all these years? Exactly. Lose the bullshit superiority complex already.

/v/irgins = sad/vr/gins
Same difference.

>>391329
>Where were you faggots posting before all these years?

On /jp/.

>>391329
>Implying /vr/ isn't old /v/ refugees that had moved to other boards years ago.

You go post in your hellhole some more. It's doing wonders for your e-thug persona.

>>391329

there's no reason to be upset, /v/-kun. :) Most of us probably haven't been there in years because it's been that long since anyone has actually discussed video games there

I'll acknowledge that shit in Sonic was bad game design, but as a kid I don't remember having any trouble with it, I probably just pressed up and "oh so that's how it is" and never thought about it. Years later I find out that everyone had a huge problem with it and it hit me how retarded it was

All enough about going fast, let's talk about other games with questionable design.

Pic related. Itoi said his team didn't even test it because they rushed the game out. I never really had an issue at this point since most of the game made you grind anyway.

>>391049

>I had just played a game using elevators before playing this game
>I made a guess
>I was right, therefore so smart, you retard

And had you NOT played a game using elevators, how do you think it would have turned out then?

>>391527
Slightly longer trial and error, but not failing to pass it. I've always been good at figuring out games.

>I was right, therefore so smart, you retard

Your words taste bad, stop shoving them into my mouth.

The screen does not auto-scroll horizontally, and yet there are still pits placed at the edge of the screen. It's bullshit.

>>390654
Kill yourself

>>374893

you think so? killing a couple of those arcade kids usually more than catapults you to reasonable levels to take on the first cave

and then you can just ruin those groups of slugs for tons of XP, these 2 things kind of prevent you from having to truly 'grind', unless you're upset over having to fight like 2-3 extra battles.

Back to the topic OP originally asked us about, fuck Rambo for NES

Had to play that shit for the gauntlet. Everything about it is just wrong.

The up button on my original Genesis stopped working before I got Sonic 3 (Some pin messed up on the port, I guess, because it was with any controller) and the whole "Swing up and down" solution is retarded anyway, but I got past it anyway.

I don't know why nobody talks about this because the solution is literally so simple it's in front of your nose (And is pretty much revealed to you in Marble Zone Act 2)...get ready because I'm probably going to blow your minds.

You can just use Tails

People seriously had trouble with the floaty barrels in Sonic 3? I thought that was some kind of running joke. They move up when you hit up and move down when you hit down. You should be able to figure this out in a couple of seconds by trying to spin dash on it or look.

>>390654
>not using +, -, and F to make the automap actually good.

>>390972
Here's the thing, though. If you jump in an elevator, it stays still. It won't move up or down, unless you press up or down. The barrel, on the other hand, DID move when you jump on it, and it wasn't just a small wobble, it moved enough for people to think that jumping was the solution. The fact it went down further when you jumped on it at the right time basically told people 'this is the solution, but your timing is off'. Hell, for some people, it WAS the solution, which further enforced this idea. Why would people try to press up and down, when the game was basically telling you to jump?

>>392670
With jumping, you could almost make enough room to get off the barrel. Almost, but not quite enough.

The trap would've been better if you could get a bit further down the chute but there was a greater chance that the barrel would crush you as you jumped into the passageway. That would be some good level design!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejc-_1TWAUQ
If you go too fast, the platforms aren't aligned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOZlmKYkggU
Played at speed shown in the video. Right was held for nearly all of it.

How the fuck did people have trouble with the barrel in that level? All you had to do was press fucking up and down. It's honestly not that hard. Little kids can do it. I can understand being stuck at that part for a minute but use your fucking brains. It's not that hard. Maybe it's the autism in you that makes you continue to do the wrong action so you are always trying to jump over it when all you have to do is press up and down.

>>394650
>Maybe it's the autism in you that makes you continue to do the wrong action
No, it's the game giving you positive feedback.

>>394650

PRessing up and down was never a mechanic in the game up to that point, and you could move the barrel a good distance by jumping on it. How is pressing up and down for no reason at all "using your brain?"

Fuck off. Maybe if there was a flashing arrow or something, but there's nothing.

>>394691
dunno man I was able to figure this out as a 6 year old child. You are probably dumber than a 6 year old child if you can't figure out simple shit like that.

>>394781
Everything that involved hidden passageway like this and a lot of nes game was bullshit. Come on, give me a crack or something

>>394691
You couldn't figure it out immediately, some other people did.

No one is smarter or dumber for not being able to figure out an innocuous game mechanic.

People need to chill.

Maze levels that have you going through door after door. It's not fun.

>>394831
They had a fish that swam through the wall, but it usually got blown up by a power bomb before anyone could notice it.

>>394691
If you never pressed up or down before in Sonic 1 to see what's coming past the screen then you're a pleb 5 year old that doesn't read manuals.

Sonic 3 had a bunch of weird new mechanics that you couldn't really figure out unless you tried them yourself.

-Insta-shield
-Shield abilities
-The ability to turn squares of blue orbs into rings in the special stage
-The barrel

I think another thing that other posters in this thread have touched on is that in old Sonic games, speed isn't a given, it's a reward for playing well.

>>387279

This. Nobody will listen to me when I say that the DKC games are marred by poor design choices but they totally are.

It's an artificial obstacle to stretch gameplay time and masking the fact that you were getting half a game

>>392021
>Super special Mario Brothers
they admit it's retarded

>>373752
It wasn't until /vr/ that I ever even heard of people having any trouble with these.

>>387279
>the button to dash is the same button to pick up items
This. I was just playing DKC today and this killed me twice.

>>395079
>Sonic 3 had a bunch of weird new mechanics that you couldn't really figure out unless you tried them yourself.
Or, you know, read the instruction manual.

Let's make something perfectly clear.

If you got up to this part in Sonic 3 and immediately knew what to do...? YOU are the fucking idiot. You have the memory of a fucking a fish.

>>392329
If you were playing the Master System version, you could see the spikes below. You are supposed to cross the spikes with an invincibility monitor found earlier on I think.

That said, this is just one of the many errors caused by porting a game to a console with a much smaller screen resolution. Need I remind you how needlessly frustrating that first boss in Sonic 2 GG was?

>>398870
Explain.

>>398917
* aside from the barrel, obviously

>>398901
You had no reason to think you could that unless you were a fucking fool.

Anyone who gave the game any credit, and were remembering everything the game had taught them up to that point, were fucking LOST on this utter failure of an obstacle. It never should've been in the game. Or at least not in the way it's executed. Anyone with a brain stem thought we had to bounce it up and down, skillfully building momentum like a champ, to eventually escape that part.

But you guys. Ohohoho. You found the fool's way out immediately. Well good for you, faggots. Stop shitting on those of us with a pulse in your fucking heads.

I cannot recall a single moment in Sonic 1, 2, or 3&K where the up or down button did anything except make you move the screen up or down.

Considering that the only interaction you have with those barrels is jumping on them and having them bounce around a bit, there's no kidding most people try clearing that segment by jumping.

And it looks very much like you CAN clear it with a few well timed jumps... In fact, it IS possible, but so ridiculously difficult that you would spend several minutes in there trying to get the timing right... Especially if you have tails fucking it up for you.

Most of us were 5 when we got to this part. Video games weren't about finding a solution, they were about a challenge they presented to us, and we had to overcome that challenge. We didn't understand the idea that if something is too challenging that we are just 'doing it wrong.' Most of us just thought it was a bullshit hard segment of the game.

>>398932
It's only possible with Hyper Sonic.

>>398925
Wait wait wait wait.

The people that figured it out easily are the fools?

God fucking damn your brain needs oxygen.

>>398946
No, I have definitely done it before. You can drop the barrel lower and lower if you jump with just the right timing, then just slip yourself under the right side.

>>398949
Read what I just said over again.

This is like the how Jeff Goldblum's character figuring out how to kill the aliens in Independence Day. This is bullshit right here.

>>398925
>Anyone with a brain stem thought we had to bounce it up and down, skillfully building momentum like a champ, to eventually escape that part.

I'm speechless. You really are this mad about other people figuring it out immediately. You built this nice little logic in your head where people who figured it out are retarded and people who didn't are true masterminds. You probably believe it, too.

I jumped up and down a few times, realized it wasn't working, and decided to push one of the other TWO BUTTONS that do something other than jump and walk.

>>398969
You say that to my face in real life not online motherfucker you see what happens.

>>398982
>realized it wasn't working
THIS is where I call you a fucking fool. The perfect illusion is in place to make it look like it CAN work.

>>398996
It doesn't work fast, therefore it can't be a proper solution.

>>399007
Hitting the two fucking buttons you never use otherwise (not counting the spindash) can't be a proper fucking solution either.

It's a bullshit obstacle. The most divisive in gaming history.

>>399007
That logic only works in modern Sonic games. Classic Sonic had enough "wait a few seconds" moments. Additionally, there were areas in Carnival Night prior to this obstacle where you had to use the momentum of jumping on and off barrels in order to reach certain areas, or at least reach them faster. Finally, people familiar with previous Sonic games will find similarities to the see-saw springs that appeared in 2 (and I think 1 but can't remember), which propelled you upward faster if you hit them with a greater velocity, usually by jumping on them faster.

>>399039
This.

If you're smart, you get stuck on the obstacle.

If not? You'll probably figure it out.

>>399014
Well I'm sorry you lack any sort of innovation or critical thinking.

>>399039
>there were areas in Carnival Night prior to this obstacle where you had to use the momentum of jumping on and off barrels in order to reach certain areas

SO THE MOST LOGICAL SOLUTION WOULD BE TO JUMP ON IT

BUT THAT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO CLEAR

YOU HAVE TO JUST STAND THERE LIKE AN IDIOT AND PRESS AND HOLD UP AND DOWN TO BUILD MOMENTUM

WHO DOES THAT

FUCK

>>399047
>It's not fucking working
>Let me keep on jumping on this and wasting time

>Thinking you're smart.

>>399063
INNOVATORS AND CRITICAL THINKERS APPARENTLY.

ACCORDING TO THIS STUPID ASSHOLE
>>399053

>>399053
That barrel is literally the only time in the entirety of the classic Sonic games that you use up or down for anything other than moving the screen, or activating the spin dash/peel out. There's a difference between requiring critical thought and throwing something out of left field.

It'd be like if there was one part in Sonic 3 where the A, B and C buttons all did something completely different, but there's no lead up to it at all, and it never happens again.

>>399070
For the last time, there's a perfect illusion in place to make it appear that it can work.

AND IT CAN, IF YOU'RE FUCKING GODMODE.

In relation to this argument, I'll just say this.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.

I love how people can sit here and claim they're "super smart" because they can't pass an obstacle.

You never stood on any of the barrels and looked up or down to see what's around?

You never played another game that used up and down to move platforms?

You sat there jumping for six minutes even though it quickly becomes obvious that there has to be a faster way to do it?

>>399112
It was a Sonic game.
It was a Sonic game.
It was a Sonic game.
It was a Sonic game.

Done, I win the argument.

>>399103
Hey fucko.

We did try different things. Disabling tails completely/ Getting the bubble shield. Getting the lightning shield.

We never went in trying the EXACT same thing. Christ, kid.

And to top it off? You can get through that way if you're absolutely perfect. So fuck off.

>>399112
>You never played another game that used up and down to move platforms?
Never played another classic Sonic game that did that.

>>399112
>You never played another game that used up and down to move platforms?

Hardly ever.

>>399125
>>399131
>>399134

>No game ever borrowed mechanics from other games ever in all of history.

Not using experience from other games is fucking stupid.

>>399070
It does work, though. It's just incredibly tedious and takes several minutes to get right for the average person.
For a kid, probably several time-overs.

>>399112

What games do you use up and down to move platforms?

>>399142
If it was borrowing game mechanics, it'd be part of the entire game, not one single obstacle in one single act of one single zone in one single game.

>>373752
>everybody saying it was easy
well i'm with ya OP, I never got past that part as a kid

>>399169

What kind of a retard are you? Every time you jump on ANY platform, you should obviously be pressing up and down, at least once each. Then you should look very carefully at the platform to make sure it has just the same sprite as all the other platforms of its type, because some games hide clues in subtle variations like that. Then you should try pressing up and down in such a way as to enter the words "up" and "down" in Morse code. Then you should use a homemade adapter to plug in the SNES mouse and click around some, just in case. Then you should hold down all the buttons on your controller for at least five minutes, because sometimes games want you to do things like that. Then you should stand still and press nothing for at least five minutes. It worked under the waterfall in Earthbound right? Then you should call Sega customer service and try to find secret clues in the voice-response system that might open up an Easter egg associated with the particular platform you've jumped on. Then, MAYBE, you should consider jumping to the next platform. Anything else would just show how clueless and naive you are, you piece of shit.

>>399227

I now understand why games chain themselves to your hand and force feed you every single detail on how to do anything at all in the game.

People literally wouldn't be able to do anything in them because they lack the thinking power to play without hand holding the entire way.

>>399293
Dude.

Take the barrel out. The ONE BARREL.

And it's a perfectly fine, playable game.

You dipshit.

Watch Egoraptor's Mega Man X sequelitis again and then shut your goofy mouth.

>>399313
Watch EgoRaptor play Star Fox and then realize he's a complete idiot at times.

I honestly don't know how one person even while "talking and trying to be funny" can still miss so much

>>399328
I watched him play it. What's the problem?

>>399328
Ad hominem. Nothing about what you said made the Mega Man X thing any less right.

>>399313
>Take the barrel out. The ONE BARREL.
>And it's a perfectly fine, playable game.

It's a perfectly fine, playable game with it, you just have to not be stupid.

>Inb4 jumping on it works... Again
Wasting minutes jumping on a barrel should not make sense when you have a time limit like that. Doing it over and over expecting it to work right makes you an idiot.

>Watch Egora
No.

>>399293
You know what the problem is? Lack of proper PC gaming. First time you had to work out how to do shit in DOS just so you could get to the game proper just sticks with you. Then after you're in, you've got to figure out which keys do what for every fucking game, and there's 100+ on the keyboard. Then onto figuring the game out.

Sure, I played Sonic 3. Yeah, I probably let the timer ran out on that barrel once. Next time I went up I figured it out. It's plain logic. You can't go left. The wall doesn't have any holes. Jumping doesn't work. So how do you do this? How hard can it be? It's not like thjs is a damn cockpit of a 747, there's only 5 buttons. Hey, why don't I use up or down to look around. Bingo.

These kids who get dropped on their head in front of a console, of course they're going to have these fucking finding solutions if nothing challenges their reasoning. Any kid I have is gonna start gaming at the bottom. And all I'm ever going to tell it is LOAD "". Now figure it out.

>>399367

>>399380
>these fucking *problems* finding

>302 posts and 38 image replies omitted. Click here to view.

Op is a epic troll and you all fell for it. Who the stupid faggot now? Obvious troll thread guys come on...

>>399408
With the amount of stupidity on display on every single gaming-related thread, one tends to not be so sure anymore.

Obviously there are a few people who figured out the barrel with a logical problem-solving process, coming to the conclusion that jumping doesn't work through a rational thought process, but the rest of you guys are just idiots. I bet if we all took this test, the dudes who got stuck would score better:

http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf

>>399424
>coming to the conclusion that jumping doesn't work
And those people are wrong.

>>399434
We fucking get that it works, get the dick out of your ear. The problem is that it wastes a fucklot of time, and as such is not an acceptable solution.

>>399367
>time limit
I don't get where there's this time limit bullshit. You literally have to try to fuck around in Mario and Sonic games to hit the time limit.
We're talking sitting around and roleplaying tea parties kind of time wasting. I have never understood why these games have a time limit, other than to make players go 'holy fuck a time limit GOTTA GO FAST'

>>399434
True, it'd be dumb to just assume that it's impossible like many people did, but it's totally reasonable to broaden your approach to the problem and consider that there might be multiple solutions, before going all in on something that has been fruitless so far.

>>399458
Probably a remnant of the Arcade games. You can't have an arcade game lets you sit and look at it for an hour without getting your game over, otherwise they wouldn't get any coin. Hence, playing well fast=higher points=your initials on the board. In Sonic, low time means higher points, enough points give you a continue. There's no real use for the limit, but then if you leave the game on unnatended it won't burn out the tube of your old crt. Unless you pause it.

>>399497
>True, it'd be dumb to just assume that it's impossible

I know what you're getting at, but it can't be *dumb* not to look for an optimal solution.

>>399520
>it can't be dumb to look

>>399458
There are some acts that are a pain enough to get through that you hit the time limit. Sandopolis Act 2 is one of them, Lava Reef Act 2 is another because the boss fight mini-stage that happens right after does not reset the timer, and there are fixed scrolling areas that don't let you just speed through it.

>>399498
What I mean is, if the time limit is so long, there's functionally no time limit. 10 min time limit, 1 pt / sec. 5 min time limit, 2 pt/sec. Same points at the end. And even so, most Sonic levels can be beaten in 45-75sec.

As long as you're functionally playing the game, there is no time limit.

>>399550
>As long as you're functionally playing the game, there is no time limit.
You underestimate how bad kids can be at games.

>>399550
Points aren't calculated like that, but I know what you're saying (also there are a couple of levels on 3 and SK that easily take 5 mins). Like I said, you're right, it's probably just a remnant of self-resetting arcade action games.

Some makers realized it at some point, tho. Streets of Rage I and II have time limits (that *never* come into play) but SoR 3 doesn't.

>>379056
>You're supposed to let the boss kill itself
Oh, come on now!

>>392329
That's hilaious

Good, we've come to the unanimous conclusion that anyone with a brain recognizes OP's pic as bad game design, and anyone that disagrees is mentally disabled.

Summary for thread:
A lack of critical thinking skills is why you fail most puzzles that require it.

Regarding the barrel, I lost several lives until I was just messing around with the controller while on it, and realized the barrel moved on it's own as I hit the D-pad. Critical thinking strikes me as I attempt to replicate the results, next thing I know, the barrel is swinging at heights normal jumping on it repeatedly, with Tails's repetitive interference, couldn't reach.

Simple as that.

Like understanding context clues, critical thinking needs to be retaught at schools again. We have enough in surplus with stupid people. We see them every election season in full force.

>>375730
I really fucking hope you're not implying that quote originates from a video game.

Do your jobs mods kill this thread. I hope your proud /vr/ you just turned this whole thread into /v/ over DERP SANIC

>>374893
Playing EB for the first time I got my ass handed to me by just about everything, I remember wondering if I was playing it wrong because of how hard that first cave was. Turns out you just have to grind. Once you start getting a few Psy powers you are good as gold.

Those totally out of place minigames in DK64 which were fun once or twice at best, then got extremely annoying in their last difficulties (beaver bother, fly swatting, etc)

>>373820
that's how I thought it was done when I was a kid, and I could never get the momentum up. then my cousin had to show me, when i was like, 8 and blew my mind.

>Never tells you or hints to use up or down.
Deal with it. /thread stay mad guys i just finished your argument

>>373752

if you level skipped to the ice cap zone, you would have found the platforms in the chasms there that worked exactly the same as these platforms. if you're too retarded to figure out they work the same, then you shouldn't be posting here

>>403251
you mean in Ice Cap Zone?

you don't need to press up and down on those, just jump on one once and wait a little bit, each time Sonic goes back to it he'll fly higher when propelled up

>>403290

if you stand on them without jumping, and press up and down it does the same thing. anyways, that's how i figured out how the ones in carnival zone worked

>>398982
>You really are this mad about other people figuring it out immediately.
No, people are 'mad' because whenever it gets brought up, there's always a flood of faggots who do the whole HURR YOU DIDN'T WORK IT OUT YOU'RE A FUCKING RETARD YOU MUST BE SO AUTISTIC IT'S SO EASY I DID IT WHEN I WAS 2 YEARS OLD FUCKING RETARDS ARE DUMBER THAN A 2 YEAR OLD HURR shit.

>>403343
This.

>>399354
> IT'S A GOOD GAME BECAUSE ZERO SAID I WILL BE AS STRONG AS HIM!

No.

>>403958

>>403993
No.

/v/ 2.0 here folks...this is why we can't have nice things.

>>404025
Mm.

>>404058
Nm.

>>403343
But you are a retard anon. You didn't figure it out first time. I bet you rode the short bus to school too and wore diapers till you were 18.

>>404067
>proving his point
Keep going lol.

>>404061
>B-BUH... A BLOO BLOO BLOO BLOO
>GUYS NOOOOO. WE'RE /V/ AGAIN
>A BUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>IT'S NOT LIKE ARGUMENTS FROM TIME TO TIME ARE HUMAN NATURE OR ANYTHING
>WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT STUFF. THAT'S WHAT /V/ DID
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BLOO BLOO BLOO BLOO BLOO

>>404084
fucks given about 0

>>404097
Hm.

Something looks askew about that image when flipped like that.

>>374203
>not knowing the shortcut in Act 1 that makes the level take less than 2 minutes.

>>374203
I'm so fucking tired of hearing this. Labyrinth was fine. It was Jim Henson trying to step outside his norm, and it turned out fucking fantastic, barring a musical number or two that were complete non-sequiturs. Besides, how could you deny Bowie.

>>404185
You can beat the first act in under 2 minutes.

>>404159
slow Labyrinth is SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

>>404190
You sexy beast. Come ravish my boy pussy.