/vr/ - Retro Games

It's an FPS game for people who hate FPS games, people who love FPS games were wondering what the fuck is this shit?

>>3735063
I like standard FPSes and still enjoyed Dude Sex.

>>3735060
Reinstalling.

Seriously tho, Deus Ex while a great game it has some aspects that just play against it.
Namely the voice acting and the fact some people may not take the game too seriously with the sudden illuminati, greys and rat-like monsters.

>>3735076

>with the sudden illuminati, greys and rat-like monsters.

I'm not sure if its sudden. I didn't play a complete playthrough of this game until last year but had known for years that the game has some heavy political undertones and intrigue. What I wasn't expecting was to get a taster of it in only the first mission - the rebel leader you're assigned to capture reels off plenty of dialogue that might be dismissed early on by some players as conspiracy nonsense, but I knew that there would be more of it to come - the illuminati stuff is signposted almost as early as it can get, maybe the greys and rat-like monsters can still be a bit of a surprise but they appear much later on in the game, far from "sudden".

Not retro

sage

>>3735104
not much of an fps but probably the best written western rpg

or probably just the best western rpg.

>>3735110
You've got ten seconds to beat it before I add you to the list of NSF casualties.

SS2 is better.

>>3735146
>your weapon has broken

>>3735110
>sage

Haven't read that in a while

It's a great game but there's something about the visuals that are extremely jarring.

>>3735063
no. It's an rpg not an FPS. it's Fallout for people who don't like Fallout, but people who liked fallout probably liked it too.

>>3735146
SS1 > DX1 >>>>>>>>>>> SS2

it's really good and it might be because i hate fps games generally, like >>3735063 says.

but i didn't finish it because it's too long. there's no game which will make me play so many hours.

Nope

>>3735110
You got a single fact to back that up?

I like it a lot. It has so much replay value and you just keep discovering new things. It's kinda weird how nobody has tried to mimic the DX format. I mean, there are games that try to, but they all fail at it. Even the new DX games fuck it up by making them too linear.
OG Deus Ex has so much customization it's ridiculous. The augmentations you can put in Denton are great because they don't feel like standard stuff, but stuff you personally chose to specialize your Denton in.

>>3735214

>>3735060
No, and it's not a great game. Fucking RPGfags and their shitty overrated games are anoying as fuck.

>>3735146
Played them both to death, you're wrong.

>>3735314
You wonder every day why you don't have friends.

>>3735397
Don't feed the troll anon. Speaking of fallout, would anyone say Deus ex is more similar to the first person fallouts, specifically new Vegas?

Overrated and most of all, not retro

Not retro

>>3735402
Nah

>>3735236
>It's kinda weird how nobody has tried to mimic the DX format
Check out EYE.

>>3735476
Ignore this.

EYE basically misses everything that made Deus Ex great (read: the story and your ability to interact with it) and focuses on STATS LOL.

Well, seems we have some none retro conversation going on here. Why is the janitor such a faggot? Gayest sex isn't even a decent game.

>>3735402
Deus Ex is more like System Shock 2 than Fallout.

>>3735674
Go away

it's an fps for people who hate fps games, and an rpg for people who hate rpgs. also a stealth game for people who hate stealth. The ultimate casual trash!

>>3735178
people who liked fallout love eating shit.

>>3735060
Greatest? No. But it's pretty close.

>some asshole is reinstalling this irght now

Every AAA game makes you press X to perform a non-lethal takedown, puts "play it your way" on the back cover, and poses no challenge because it can't commit to action or stealth. And that is all Deus Ex's fault.

What is the best ending, and why is it Dark Age?

>>3735815
What made this ending such a masterpiece?

>>3735730
yeah. I kind of thought Deus Ex is like fallout except it eliminates the shit eating open world that is there more to take up time than be fun.

Dues ex, such a great game. 2000 was the best year of gaming. Between this, pic related and gba, truly an exciting year.

>>3735920
I'd say 1994 was the best year of gaming. 2000 was kind of meh. No great games. Also gba and ps2 were just pale consoles/handhelds of their past.

>>3735920
GBA was 2001, though.

>>3736007

For some reason I keep thinking gba was 2000. Still, 2000 was a great year. Ps2 was probably the best console Sony ever released.

>>3735776
But Deus Ex had nothing like that

To whoever has not tried it. INSTALL GMDX MOD! it seriously is fun as fuck! Also this may be bad but i always cheat and make one gun skill Master level and give him that gun with ammo.

>>3735776
I get the feeling you never played the original Deus Ex.

>>3735063
>>3735178
Just because you never used its multiplayer deathmatch with choose your own implants mode that doesn't mean it didn't exist.

>>3735776
No, that's Human Revolution's fault.

>>3735776

Actually Deus Ex incorporated its rpg mechanics in such a way that the game world was not just a malleable toy box which folds to whatever the player felt like. Somewhat like Morrowind, if you invested your stats wrong or used the wrong weapons your character would be completely useless with certain tools and it is not possible to simply pick up new playstyles on a whim without planning your skill point investment accordingly, which is a limited quantity. Unless you dump all your points into a single weapon skill at the beginning of the game most people at the start are likely going to stealth through the first section due to limited combat skills. This also made playthroughs unique since you couldn't use every game mechanic in a single playthrough.

You are right that many AAA games try this multiple solution approach but they suck because they don't take the time or energy to do it properly, and they miss the point of video games that makes them fun which is interesting choices. Multiple paths aren't fun if they're all easy and there is nothing stopping you from taking any of them besides whatever you feel like, which makes all the choices feel the same.

This is what was wrong with human revolution. There was less interesting choices to make in regard to how you play the game, every mechanic is available from the beginning of the game and stealth is just an optional activity, not really a mechanical necessity. It doesn't help that they went for a kitchen sink approach and that you can obtain one of nearly every type of augmentation before the end of the game. The point of the skill points and binary aug choices from the original was to force the player to make binary choices and make them wonder what if they done otherwise, adding replay value.

>>3736976
I could easily beat this entire game without spending any skill points or augmentations at all. The game is almost entirely breakable with nothing but grenades and explosive crates.

You can even use two LAMs to climb a skyscraper like batman if you want to.

>>3735184
I have to agree, the mechanical depth of SS1 far outweighs SS2. So does the level design, enemy variety, little details such as audio and text logs are so much more detailed and it's ending doesn't feel like an tacked on anti-climax.

Ss1>Ss2
But with saying that.... I don't think Ss1 is better than Deus Ex. I could argue that once you adjust to the dated controls System Shock 1 is an experience on par with Deus Ex, but it doesn't surpass it.

>>3736980
In fact someone beat the game with no items, no skills and no augs: https://qntm.org/alginon

>>3736980
>>3736993

Beating the game that way doesn't challenge what I said about how the skills and augmentations encourage specified playthroughs. I didn't say anything was impossible, and I never implied that Deus Ex is not in fact about flexible solutions. For most and many natural playthroughs, the player will usually follow certain skillsets more than others, and I didn't mean that just in the literal spending of skill points. The level design and etc encourage multiple approaches beyond just the rpg system. This is different from HR where the player character is basically combat ready with every weapon in the game from the beginning.

>>3737029
Nobody is disputing that HR is a terrible designed RPG and a passable movie.

>>3736976
>>3736980
The only correct way to play DX: http://www.it-he.org/deus.php

>>3736980
>I know esoteric exploits for breaking the game in half thanks to dedicated speedrunners doing all the hard work for me.
I'd say congrats, but none of that really contradicts his point.

>deus Ex MMO/co-op mod

Why has nobody done this? There was some unfinished DX coop mod that allowed multiple people to play the main story, but it was indeed unfinished and played like ass. But imagine DX modded to be some sort of MMO/co-op hybrid where you can roam around Deus Ex world together and cross paths with other players etc.
Not that I'm into MMOs, I just think Deus Ex world is large enough to sustain multiple player groups.

Or just a working co-op would be nice. System Shock 2 was great in coop.

>>3737071
I've never watched anyone else play deus ex except for in the actual period of 2000-2003 when I was in middle school and saw it played at a friend's house after I had already beaten it.

I have never watched a let's play and the only game I've watched a speedrun of was Super Metroid. I did it in order to improve my own speedrun and understand glitch techniques like the mockball, and this was also before youtube existed. I think my record wasn't even very good. like 30 or 40 minutes maybe. my only good speedrun achievement was iirc 2 minutes 27 seconds on the timed section of Cave Story PC, which changes the title screen character to Sue (curly if it's under 5, king if it's under 4, sue if it's under 3. Each has a different title screen theme music).

Actually I'm almost certain there's one more benchmark and I might have gotten the order wrong. Maybe it was King's sister Tokoro? I'm sure the final one was Sue though.

Deus Ex was just a shitty System Shock clone.

>>3737129
honestly both system shock games are really fucking boring and easy

>>3737129
It's more of a blend of System Shock and Thief with RPG mechanics.

>>3737174
Sometimes I try to imagine what Bioshock would be like if it were designed like Deus Ex instead of like System Shock 2, which is honestly not a very good videogame and more of an interactive novel with a shitty videogame plastered over it.

I'm not big into books

>>3735060
I don't know about greatest, but it's up there.

I'd love a good source port/update to it, so I could play through the game again on a modern system.

>>3737513
You mean like this one: http://kentie.net/article/dxguide/index.htm

>>3737523
Doesn't look like that does much more for you than wine would.

This might be of some help though.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-hdtp/downloads

>>3736851
Human Revolution was just a shit game doing what every shit game now does it didn't start the trend

honestly if you want to analyze it that kind of press button to progress gameplay started with ocarina of time

I haven't played enough console games to point to where it got really shitty though

>>3737487

One of the characters in deus ex recommended the book Last and First Men which introduced my young mind to the cyclical nature of history rather than the linear Jewish crap we are taught to believe

>>3737129

Deus Ex is made by the same people who made System Shock and is a spiritual ancestor essentially.

>>3737614
>honestly if you want to analyze it that kind of press button to progress gameplay started with ocarina of time
I'd count the seesaws and stuff in Sonic and Knuckles.

>>3737676
>wake up, sheeple, take the red augmentation

>>3737056
Read all of this webpage, the guys behind these are hilarious.

>>3737708
As long as i don't turn green and grow a pair of antennas I'll take one

>>3735076
The greys are a meme though, they are bovine mutations to create biological weapons. Experiments made to resemble the Roswell fan-fiction characters of aliens, this way the researchers can hide behind the alien cover when really it is more sinister because genetic experiments are highly illegal, considered the worst kind of research. It is simple subversion. Few npcs comment on the greys too, some are fascinated by the concept of aliens while the others know its bullshit and just some experiment.

Assuming rat-like to be the carkians, which are experiments from crocodiles and some other species.

The illuminati and majestic 12 handles is criticized as well by the main character and others as ridiculous. it delved on too much about secret societies, I would have like to see more of the super A.I. driving the story as that interested me more.

>>3735815
I am a fan of the helios ending, we know thats what all black projects are leading to for artificial evolution.

>>3737174
this guy gets it.

>>3739032
The greys are stated to be genetically modified chimps in an attempt to make organisms with enhanced intelligence and resistance to radiation.

Greasels are Karkians are designed organisms with man-made DNA.

I honestly liked the Paris segment most out of any part of the game, more secret society and revolution and adventure game stuff would have suited me just fine.

like that mansion and the cathedral and the catacombs

it was all so good

>>3735146
Eh. SS2's RPG mechanics were kinda handled poorly. I'm particularly gobsmacked that they thought it was a good idea to have repair and maintenance as completely separate stats.

No, half life 2 is.

Come at me deus cucks.

>>3740337
Autistic valve drone detected, back to lebbit

>2000
NOT RETRO
O
T

R
E
T
R
O

>>3736841
yes because multiplayer deathmatch is the defining part of an fps game. you fucking brainlet.

>>3737128
>my e-peen is this long guys. guys look, look guys, LOOK!

>>3740539

>Implying

System Requirements
Minimum Specifications: 300 Mhz Pentium II or equivalent
Windows 95/98
64 MB RAM
DirectX 7.0a compliant 3D accelerated video card
DirectX 7.0a compliant sound card
DirectX 7.0a or higher (included)
4X CD-ROM Drive
150 MB uncompressed hard drive space
Keyboard and Mouse

Recommended Specifications:
AMD Athlon or Intel Pentium III processor
128 MB RAM
3D accelerator with 16 MB VRAM
8X CD-ROM Drive
750 MB uncompressed hard drive space
EAX or A3D compliant audio card

>>3737174
weren't the cathedral and the sub-base supposed to be homages to thief and SS?

>>3740570
try running deus ex on those specs

>>3740608

Voodoo 3 3000 with 16MB Released Mid 1999
800 MHz PIII released on December 20, 1999

Easy

>>3740608
Whether you can run a game smoothly is irrelevant. PS1 and N64 barely have any games that run at 60 FPS, for one thing.

>>3740608
I played it fine on a 400 mhz

worth a read, recommended by one of the npcs, cant remember where may have been in hong kong

civilizations, races and organisms rise and fall, rather than (((progress))) linearly

>>3735063
>It's an FPS game for people who hate FPS games,

And it's a stealth game for people who love stealth games.

And it's an RPG for people who love RPGs.

Shooters don't own the first person perspective, asshole.

>>3740631
Thanks for the suggestion.

>>3735063
>>3740665
This is why I hate the term First Person Shooter (FPS). Its too action focused.

I would've been happy if it was First Person Game (FPG), because then it would be a medium rather than a genre.

>>3735776
You should at least play games you shitpost about.

>>3740564
>my life is so sad that I think having a now obsolete speed record on an indie pc game is something to brag about
why would this make anyone upset or insecure
this is like someone talking about their average lifting stats or something

>>3740621
Intel paper released processors back then at best you had a 700 mhz. Voodoo3? Lel enjoy playing at 640x480 20 fps.
>>3740624
Deus ex on 1999 hardware is not playable.
>>3740628
Haha no it didnt 10fps and maybe 20 if you are looking at a wall dumbass

this game aint retro

>>3740570
directx 7.0a was released in 2000

Stay fucking autistically butthurt, notretrofags.

U-UNATCO?

NOT RETRO
O
T
R
E
T
R
O

>>3735727
Sad!

Name a single problem you can't fix by pointing a GEP Gun at it
>Protip: You can't

>>3743340
your love life

>>3743357
I'm sure if I could find a way to point a GEP Gun at my love life, it would fix that too.

>>3743340

Fido running off down the road when you accidentally let go of his leash for just a moment.

>>3743367
Easy, just aim the GEP Gun at Fido. No more problem.
>I said the problem would be solved
>I never said everyone would like how it was solved
Are you guys even trying?

>>3735060
Greatest would imply that it's universally perfect to all.

Try getting a millennial to play that game, they'd hate it. It's aged terribly.

Doom however is fun no matter what and no matter who

>>3742227
No,

>>3743340
Gunther having a bigger GEP gun.

>>3735815
Dark Age because the future scares me.

>>3737676
The world has never had access to the internet before. It's clearly completely linear.

>the English are terrorizing ALL OF SCOTLAND, and it's time for us to fight back! But if we're to defeat them, every one of us will need to learn how to march and fight

>>3743604
Before the internet we just used clairvoyance and the collective unconsciousness via ritually induced trance which had the advantage of precognition. Such techniques are lost to most and the aptitude is buried and unnoticed or diagnosed as mental illness and numbed with medication.

>>3743614
Is it actually the same fucking voice actor? To this day I still wonder since I can't seem to find the voice credits for AoE 2.

>>3743629
BEHOLD THE HORDE OF GHENGIS GANG APROACHES

But I'm an old man now, what harm could I possibly do?
I'm not completely sure, but both games were made in Texas at around the same time.

>>3743597

i wonder how many luddites wanted a return to the dark age after they saw a spinning jenny

>>3743621
There's no null hypothesis so that means it must be true!

>>3743645
I wonder how many of them were completely justified when the spinning jennies rose up and then hooked their brains up to nightmare simulators?

>>3743651

u better watch ur back meatbag

>>3743647
There's some things that can only be known by those that experience them.

>>3735060
>b8

No, fuck you. I did not have sex with David Duchovny.

>>3735730
I like Fallout Tactics though.

>>3736980
>The game is almost entirely breakable with nothing but grenades and explosive crates.

This game is beatable with just a cattle prod or a crossbow... pleb.

>>3740631
>(((progress)))
I like jews. Triggered? >>>/pol/

>>3743823
The crossbow is OP af nigger

>>3743826
>I like jews.
That's a good little goy, but 4chan is a conservative website now. If you can't handle it, libtard, fuck off back to facebook.

>>3743873
Jews are conservatives that create liberal propaganda to cow the populace and make them easier to take advantage of.

>>3743881
And that's why they're shit. So are you implying you like a race of people who subvert and sabotage every nation they have resided in ever?

please fuck off to /pol/ you two, this is a deus ex thread

>tfw I got saturated by too many replays in too short a time

It will be a decade before I can play it again.

>>3743889
I'm not that guy and the Jews aren't a race they're a cult.

>>3743913
>also known as the Jewish people, are an ethnoreligious group

>>3743931
They're not a race, because not everyone whose mom is Jewish decides to be a Jew even though that's a part of their cult's belief.

>>3743937
Jew is both an ethnicity and a religion. Not that I'd expect a libtard such as yourself to know that.

>>3743948
They're literally a cult that believes you don't have a soul if you don't have a Jewish mom.

Why does the alt-right approve of Deus Ex when a Jew directed the game?

http://www.jewornotjew.com/profile.jsp?ID=1628

>>3743937
No, not everyone with a Jewish mother becomes a RELIGIOUS Jew. They still get automatic membership into the Jewish Blood Cult.

>>3743953
>implying there isnt any based jews

>>3743958
But /pol/ told me all kikes are evil!

>>3743958
Aye, like Jesus Christ and Hitler.
>>3743961
Take your Jewish lies elsewhere.

>>3743963
>hitler
>jewish

Stop getting your data from pozzed media outlets.

>>3743937
That's not how biology works

>>3743963
I bet Hitler only burned the Jews that swallowed their gold.

>>3743850

It takes forever to actually put people to sleep and you're just sitting there like a moron when they turn around to shoot you.

What a shame

>>3735236
VtM Bloodlines is your game, man

>>3744647
Agreed. The mid game combo of tranq darts and then activating the cloak remedies this problem. But unless you are abstaining from kills, the sniper rifle is superior in every way.

>>3735236
>(Nice legs!)
Dude I loved Video game mags back then, now it would say something like "eidos shitlords must think a woman isn't good for anything that isn't office work and showing her legs around"

>>3735815
Helios is best ending.

So do you guys like the sequels?

>>3735060

I wish there was a 'join Bob Page' option

>>3746356
there is. it's called siding with the jewlluminati

>>3744715
*tsk* what a rotten way to die

>>3735184
>>3736986
SS1 poisoned the well for single-player FPS games. It was the original pseudo-RPG FPS that became the archetype of so much of the cancer in the vidya industry.

>>3746664
Except SS1 doesn't have any RPG mechanics. It is an FPS/Adventure like Metroid Prime.

>>3746664
Ultima Underworld came before the original System Shock. And System Shock wasn't an RPG at all until the sequel.

And the problem with modern FPS RPG games isn't inherently because they're FPS RPGs. Its because they do it without any understanding of how to make it work, resulting in mindless unfocused sandbox games full of choices that dilute the narrative rather than having any meaningful impact. Elder Scrolls is where I'd put the blame for this.

>>3746090

no

>>3746090
HR and MD are a mixed bag for me. I think they're better than a lot of other modern FPS/RPG type games, but the upgrade system lacks weight, level design is nowhere near as open-ended as the original, and I absolutely fucking hate the third person cover system.

>>3747186
>Elder Scrolls is where I'd put the blame for this.
I don't think there's anything really wrong with morrowind or oblivion

>>3746739
>Except SS1 doesn't have any RPG mechanics. It is an FPS/Adventure like Metroid Prime.

hmm..who should i believe...anonymous shitposter...or the developers themselves

>>3747227
congratulations, you found something from the first design document, before the game had actually been made

so what rpg mechanics does the actual game have?

>>3746739
>Except SS1 doesn't have any RPG mechanics.
Inventory management, at-will item usage, assigned tasks, focus on dialogue and lore, character building, etc. Individually, of course, none of those things is remotely enough to qualify but when you have so many of them that the gunplay is no longer front-and-center the line starts blurring. I'm not even saying that FPS games with RPG elements are bad (hell, Stalker is one of my favorite games ever) but they've proliferated like a cancer as a way to pad out mediocre games with superficial gameplay elements and SS1 paved the way for that.

>>3747186
>Ultima Underworld came before the original System Shock.
Yeah, but it was fantasy. The thematic distinction is important here because SF (especially in the early 90s) cast a much wider net than fantasy as far as appeal is concerned.

>And System Shock wasn't an RPG at all until the sequel.
That's exactly the problem. It's neither fish nor fowl.

>And the problem with modern FPS RPG games isn't inherently because they're FPS RPGs.
I never said that the problem was with the idea as a whole or even SS; Dude Sex, Stalker, SS1/2, etc. are all good games that I enjoy.

>Its because they do it without any understanding of how to make it work, resulting in mindless unfocused sandbox games full of choices that dilute the narrative rather than having any meaningful impact. Elder Scrolls is where I'd put the blame for this.
Yeah, and SS1 kick-started the trend. I mean, eventually it was inevitable that it would happen (for exactly the reasons you mentioned; padding and conformity)but SS1 hit a sweet spot between narrative, twich-based and non-twitch gameplay that made it a success and the fact that it wasn't fantasy meant that it wasn't marketed mostly to social rejects who spent their weekends playing AD&D and making LotR cosplay. It re-defined what kind of games RPG elements could be slapped onto and the mass appeal of fantasy elements in general.

>>3747243
>you found something from the first design document, before the game had actually been made
no, these are retrospective passages about SS1 from the SS2 design document

>so what rpg mechanics does the actual game have?
stop thinking about RPG mechanics in terms of narrow convention

>>3747271
so, none?

got it, thanks.

>>3747275
maybe you should read this post m8 >>3747263

>>3747263
>Yeah, and SS1 kick-started the trend.

I'm not seeing how it did. Nothing about it fits what I described as the problem with modern FPS RPGs.

>>3747318
>Nothing about it fits what I described as the problem with modern FPS RPGs.
The problem was never about SS1, it was about people cribbing from it to pad their own games. I've said that several times.

>>3747336
But Elder Scrolls Arena already started doing those problems before System Shock 1 even came out.

>>3747342
And as I mentioned earlier, as opposed to the combat in Arena the combat in SS1was based around rootie-tootie point-and-shooties and not slappy whacky slice-and-stabbies. It was also explicitly a fantasy RPG before it was anything else, without aspersions to being any other genre.

>>3747225
They're better than Skyrim, but they still feel very much unfocused to me.

>>3747346
The only thing you could blame System Shock for is paving way for the Sci-fi FPS/RPG genre itself. But thats not where the problems of the genre came from. Elder Scrolls is.

>>3747358
Elder scrolls isn't the same genre, though. I've been stressing that point all along because it's important. It had the same issues, sure, but it was SS1 that took those issues and spread them to all the corners of the earth.

>start game
>dear son pajeet do you want a sniper rifle, some tools or A FUCKING ROCKET LAUNCHER
>proceed to cheese through the areas by triggering alarms then annihilating both enemies and electronic devices with one shot

great stealth game right there

>>3747398
>Elder scrolls isn't the same genre, though.
Outside of what weapons you use, and the setting, yes it is. And guess what I'm not talking about? The weapons and setting.

>but it was SS1 that took those issues and spread them to all the corners of the earth.
But Its not a sandbox thats overflowed with content to the point of too much freedom making little impact nor sense of the narrative. This was what Elder Scrolls did, and has bled into the Sci-fi style in modern times. System Shock can't be blamed for these things being in Sci-fi FPS RPGs, just because it brought guns to the first person RPG.

>>3747410
I went with the crossbow. bad choice in hindsight. Sniper Rifle is the king.

Does System Shock have stats and classes?
No?
Then it doesn't have RPG mechanics, retards.

>>3747458
SS2 has 3 classes.

>>3747410
Dude, rockets are rare ammo until lategame. That's not the way it's meant to be prayed!!!

>>3746090
Project Snowblind was kinda meh. But it was pretty.

If that's the greatest PC game of all time, PC gaming is seriously shit.

>>3747458
>an RPG can only be what I say so

>>3747458

Some people think zelda games are RPGs.

>>3747764
Zelda II is the only one that could be called RPG-like. All the others are action/adventure.

>>3735060
NOT RETRO

MOOOOODS

>>3735730
I like fallout AND deus ex though. What the hell's the matter with you. Unless you're talking about the bethesda games maybe.

>>3748280
You sound like 12 year old autist who just noticed someone you don't know is in your house.

>keep hearing for years that the original deus ex is gotyay
>decide to play it and just try for myself
>stealth broken as fuck
>maps boring as fuck
>dialog cringe as fuck
>characters bland as fuck
>game feels like a chore, not an experience

Even Invisible War was more fun than the original and I have no desire to play either of them again. The only really good Deus Ex so far has been Human Revolution.

>stealth actually works
>maps are interesting and intricate
>dialog is superior
>lazarus is red pilled as fuck
>excellent character development with adam, prichard, david, hugh, jarron, megan, and taggart
>game felt like an experience, not a chore

The original is 1/10, not even worth modding and playing again.

>>3748614
fake and gay

>>3748614
>>stealth actually works

Stealth is incredibly overpowered in HR thanks to the third-person cover system.

>>maps are interesting and intricate

They were really samey and linear in my experience. Multiple paths usually boiled down to being designated stealth and non-stealth paths within the same area. Never truly felt like I needed to explore.

>>dialog is superior

I personally hated that you had to do mental gymnastics in some conversations to gain anything. And they felt overly long at times. I prefer the originals more straight to the point dialogue.

>>3748810
I did like that the conversation system had a final boss who was a politician. That was kind of neat.

The actual design of it was a little forced though.

>>3735236
>JoJo Fine
!
Could this be a . . .

>>3740631
Honestly if you study history you'll come to the same conclussion desu

Yet nobody will ever take you seriously when you say "no, don't do that, look what happened to these other people when they did that".

>>3740847
genres were born out of word of mouth, if they had been planned it would of probably been that way.

>>3743392
Is 97 millenial? Desu sex is one of my favorite games.

>>3746090

I liked Human Revolution even if it didn't capture what the original Deus Ex was about. The narrative and visuals completely missed the point, the multiple approaches were often spelled out in binary options and the game had an upgrade system but no rpg mechanics(not the same thing). But the stealth and action aspects were greatly improved and very enjoyable and I enjoyed its aesthetics and atmosphere even if it wasn't quite like Deus Ex. Nonlethal tools were a complete upgrade over the original and I liked how you could play the game as a human ghost if you wanted too.

>>3747410

To be fair, you're supposed to consider not using the rocket launcher on the enemies because they were supposed to be looked at as human beings that you would want to spare. The game actually did a great job of humanizing the faceless goons thrown your way up until you face MJ12, at which point murder is encouraged since MJ12 are basically Illuminati terrorist fascists.

>>3748614
>stealth broken as fuck
it's not broken, it's just shit. Got an enemy, any enemy either NSF mercenary grunt or fucking mj12 commando or robot walking tank? Go 10 feet to their left or right. Crouch, done. darkness levels don't matter.
>maps boring as fuck
most of them are hollowed out cubes consisting of cubes for decoration, it's all very shallow. Shame this is a game based on the engine that produced Unreal. It's like they didn't know the editor had more brush options other than cube.
>dialog cringe as fuck
yep, it's horrible.
>characters bland as fuck
yep, they're very bland and one-note
>game feels like a chore, not an experience
got that right

>The only really good Deus Ex so far has been Human Revolution.
>stealth actually works
it's better, but it's far from great.
>maps are interesting and intricate
I agree to an extent, the game reuses assets to ridiculous extents. No idea why a slum building would have the exact same ventilation structure and maintenance shafts as a multi-billion dollar corporations skyscrapers other than the developers being lazy as fuck.
>dialog is superior
very barely
>lazarus is red pilled as fuck
barely remember
>excellent character development with adam, prichard, david, hugh, jarron, megan, and taggart
now you're stretching
>game felt like an experience, not a chore
not really a statement

>>3749289
they suggest the GEP for anti-armor, because the nsf has robots. It's also a universal lockpick.

>>3749298
>It's also a universal lockpick.
so is the sniper rifle

>>3749310
waste of ammo, geps can get multiple locks at a time. shit game.

>>3747458
/tg/ here, play something other than D&D

when I played invisible war I increased the global damage multiplier used for realistic mode until the sniper rifle would kill enemies in one head shot and not multiple head shots

this had the secondary effect of causing everyone I shot to do a 360 degree backflip before sprawling out on the ground

needless to say I probably had more fun with the game than most

>>3749756
this also allowed me to kill unarmored enemies and npcs by throwing coffee cups at them

that was also pretty good

>>3749067
I'm well aware of this.

>>3749756
Yeah, I remember this also caused any environmental damage to be immediately lethal, and stubbing your toe on a chair the wrong way or falling more that 3 feet caused your knees to explode.

>>3735060
No

Original Deus Ex stealth

>wait an hour for enemy to be secluded
>take forever to silently move behind them
>equip baton, strike back of enemy head
>HEY, HE'S OVER HERE!
>reload
>sneak up behind enemy again
>use riot prod
>AHYAYAYAYAAHH! HEY, HE'S OVER HERE!
>reload
>sneak up behind enemy again
>try hitting him with baton in back of head again
>HEY, HE'S OVER HERE!
>reload, try again with baton, this time the guy collapses

What a shit game when you look at it objectively without nostalgia goggles.

>>3753513
>>equip baton, strike back of enemy head
>>HEY, HE'S OVER HERE!
you're aiming too high, aim for the neck
if you're untrained in low-tech weapons, you'll probably need two slaps. if you aim the first one right, the enemy will be in run away mode

objectively, it makes more sense to know where exactly to hit to knock someone out, and not just "hit in general behind while unspotted"

what would you prefer, single button takedowns?

>>3753724
I actually did kind of like how you had to hit a particular spot to knock people out. It made more sense than whacking someone in the back and them going down. You get better at it as you play too, till by the end you're easily KOing people.

The commandos were weird though. It took awhile for me to figure out the specific spot to hit them.

>>3735236
BIG BOSS!?!!!

>>3735063
It's not an FPS, you genius. It was derived from 3D dungeon crawlers like Ultima Underworld (UU->System Shock->System Shock 2->DX (with Thief on the side).
It's an RPG with FPS elements, just like it also has adventure and stealth elements.

>>3753513
>wait an hour for enemy to be secluded
Fucking TUTORIAL teaches you that you can throw items to distract enemies, you goddamn pleb.
Also it's Thief style stealth, you don't NEED to take down enemies to get through, enemies are position so you can pass through the patrol lines without engaging, and it's often easier than taking them down - by design.

>>3735476
EYE is really nothing like DX

>>3753513
>>3753724
>>3753834


It's the spine, their lower back to be specific. First you need a certain level of training in melee weapons, and then you can one hit enemies with the baton in the spine. It makes the game really easy actually as you can render everyone unconscious with an unlimited weapon.

>>3753724

>hit someone in the back of the neck to knock them out, not the back of the head

>>3745565
>Helios is best ending.
Ron Paul le Chinese ending is the best. Anarchy, muttafukkas!

>>3754042
>I'm such a god damn pleb I don't even know what a rabbit punch is

>>3754110
it's where you punch a rabbit

>>3754110

Go brag about killing animals somewhere else, Steve.

When we talk about mechanics and design. Deus Ex is the high point.

No one has exceeded the freedom and autonomy of this game.

>>3754270
I don't really like hunting man, I'm more of a human murderer than an animal murderer

>>3744647
>Not hitting them before running off.

>>3749289
This. During my first proper playthrough, I tried to keep the NSF and UNATCO troopers alive. I just exterminated MJ12 though.

>>3737056
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7C71E6B445FEBE37

this is the spiritual sequel

>>3754936
>last update was two years ago
too soon

>>3754274
well lets see. The AI is retarded, dice roll/waiting shooting is a god awful idea. So many augs are shit and poorly implemented, the game is a joke in its last half as far as difficulty and design goes.

Deus Ex is a meme game. A pretty shit one.

>>3756323
Care to clarify your points?

>>3756338
The AI being retarded? Get spotted, disappear for 5 seconds. You are an oversized rat in a coat. Leave a dead/uncon body? AI has no response unless they heard it drop, otherwise it's nothing even if it's in their patrol route. Stealthing by? Go 10 feet to the right or left to be unseen. Light values don't matter.

How is dice roll shooting any good? It's a pointless abstraction that makes using anything that shoots a practice of waiting for it to be useful or dumping all your points in it to make it useful. It's a terribly designed RPG mechanic that doesn't work in a shooter and doesn't work in an RPG of this type, made worse by the fact that every level up for a skill is just lol your bullets do more damage/are more effective. Lazy and uninteresting design.

As far as the design in the last half? Everythin past the versalife building is shit. Canals are also shit, but holy fuck is the game a mess. Especially once you hit ocean lab, missile silo, and area 51.

>>3735146
>>3735184
>>3740319

Thief > SS2 > SS1 > DX


Deus Ex has terrible RPG Skill mechanics.

Hacking is just watching a bar go down and clicking camera off/door open/turret enemies at varying speeds. Lockpicking and multitool is just gimmicky item collection. Swimming is a meme, environemtal is a meme. For being a special Agent, starting out with a glorified Flashlight and the proficiency at shooting handguns like a 4-year old is a joke.

Deus Ex really shines in the world-building and the plutocratic plot. Back in 2000, it was just far-fetched sci-fi crap. But after 9/11, terrorism, secession movements, informations technology and shit were huge topics that no one predicted would happen.

Let's be honest: Spending skill points that take way too much time to accumulate maybe 2-3 times during the entire game isn't that great. You also get most of the augmentations way too late, and most of them dont come into play that often.

SS2 on the other hand basically hands you a system of 3 different trees to pick and chose from. You might go with a hacker build, but get tier 4 and 2 psi abilities for pyrokinetic field and invisibility to fuck up enemies as an invisibile fire ring.

Even going full marine or full mage you can decide what to focus on or what to combine. You might go for proficiency in heavy weapons as marine and blast everything with different types of grenades. As a mage you can buff you strength and agility, buff your hand-to-hand combat damage and then summon a psionic melée weapon to smash everything as a psi-sci-fi barbaro-wizard. Or you can decide to sneak by shit by making everything docile, work for you or disable security systems.


There's just so much more capabilities in SS2 where in DX just shooting someone in the head with laser sights and scope takes care of 95% of enemy encounters. It's easier and quicker than any of the alternative routes the game passes up. Non-Lethal playthroughs of DX for example are a pain in the ass.

>>3747263
If we look at Ultima Underworld and System Shock, we see two very different games.

SS1 is first and foremost a shooter. You pick up weapons, you blast enemies and fulfill objectives. There are no skill proficies, no attributes, no stat tables involved. You survive merely by your own player skill.

Most playthroughs of SS1 will look like this: Pick up gradually better weapons, kill enemies, fulfill objectives. There are no multiple routes to the same goal, there's no character development of your character, there's no dialogue options. The only choices you make is what weapon to use when, and what extra mechanics like jet boots to use. That's what you get in every FPS.

Ultima Underworld makes you chose a role for your character right from the start, directly linking to what you'll be proficient at. You pick from Fighter, to Rogue, to Wizard, to Paladin, to Bard. You have dialogue options with many characters, and sometimes you can persuade people, fight them, or do a quest for them to obtain a goal. Most goals in the game have different ways of achieving them, except for the main goals. There are optional side quests in exploring the Stygian Abyss. Equipment has to be managed according to class; there are some avenues of gameplay that are closed up by chosing certain classes, giving it replay value. You can even chose your appearance and gender in-game.

Saying that SS1 is a role-playing game is ridiculous. SS1 has barely any role-playing elements, and most of the ones you named are so vague and washed out they apply to nearly any genre.

>>3753724
In Thief you can blackjack any guard as long as they are not aware of your position, taking them by surprise.

That one button take-down is more than sufficient at providing the best stealth gameplay we know till this day. What do you think would happen if you strolled along, not knowing of an intruder and getting slapped in the back of your head? You would shut down. Deus Ex Stealth system is unnecessarily stat-reliant and inefficient. If shooting a guard in the head is a more stealthier option than having to beat the shit out of someone screaming for help, you have fucked up your stealth mechanics.

>>3756390

Your analysis is pretty good but somehow every critical anon of Deus Ex does not apparently know that you can one-shot every enemy in the game with a baton at an advanced or higher melee skill level. Only the augmented soldiers cannot be taken down this way and they can be one shotted with the taser. At least look this shit up before you spew shit.

>>3756369
He is a 4 year old tho

My criticism of SS2 would be that though the choices seem meaningful, none of them are really any fun in the context of the game. It doesn't have good action, it doesn't have good enemies, and the environments are at their best, trippy pieces of artwork that are a chore to actually play through.

Going the other way I'd say that Bioshock has lots of choices, all of them are sort of fun, and none of them are meaningful at all.

Deus Ex has a lot of choices, and they're all sort of meaningful, and they're all sort of fun, and there's always a branch for the off-chance that none of the things you chose were something that was applicable to the situation at hand.

I really can't praise SS2 even if it is a good RPG when it isn't any fun to play the game those mechanics are in.

Deus Ex is the best story and the best adventure game, and Thief is the best "game", and SS2, SS, and BS are all sort of mediocre experiences.

DX has my favorite situations that actually involve people and opportunities and the ways you can resolve them.

>>3756629

RPG mechanics always translates awkwardly into real time gameplay. That's why Thief is the best game since there's no clashing dice rolls, just simulation systems and immersive world interaction. Thief also probably has the best gameplay mechanics of them all since instead of allowing the player to interact with multiple average to OK mechanics, it narrows itself to its stealth mechanics and makes it really good. Thief is like an rpg with only one class that dedicates itself to being the best true neutral rogue simulator you could possibly get.

>>3756674
there is clear room for improvement that would tie neatly to the present mechanics and systems. Expanding things like rope climbing to include a wall run/swing, or how you can climb ledges, making it into something you can move across carefully at the cost of making noise, things like integrating momentum into the swinging of the black jack to make it more effective against alerted enemies at the risk of opening them for a quick high alert state.. Some of the levels are pretty shit too.

>>3756570
I know that you can one-shot enemies with higher melée skill, but the game pushes non-lethal takedowns down your throat right from the word go, and ostracizes you for taking the more viable, lethal approach.

Right before the statue Paul tells you not to kill people. The riot prod only has so many fucking charges before you rely on the baton, and then you find out that you either need pixel perfect aiming/savescumming, or have to beat them repeatedly over the head while they alert everyone around them.

Same goes for the tranquiliser crossbow. For being called "tranquiliser" your targets sure as fuck make a lot of racket before going down. And concerning the augmented guards, yeah, theres this sweet spot at the back of their necks for the prod, but it all depends on how close you are and where you're looking to make that hit connect properly, otherwise he'll turn around and gun you down in half a second. You'll either practise until you're absolutely perfect at it, or just savescum your way through. Fuck that.

It's not that we don't know our shit, when we criticise DX it's still from a place of love, but not unconditional. DX fanboys on the other hand will find no fault at all with their perfect, flawless game, and defend the broken stealth and non-lethal playstyles.

What I hate the most is that my first few times playing through, Paul and Carter always scolded the fuck out of me for killing people in Castle Clinton. You're either savescum-stealth Jesus, or a heartless baby-murderer, and the game basically forces you morally to committ to non-lethality, when it's the worst approach possible.

>>3756629
> None of them are fun

Hacking mechanics are fun. In DX it's watching a bar go down.

Combining Psi abilities for different playstyles is fun. You can buff yourself up to whatever you want, tanky melée wizard, speedy gonzalez cybermaster, mine-dropping teleport ambusher.

Setting is like a spaceship from Star Trek. You can't tell me that going through Med/Sci, Recreation and Operations isnt fun because I had a lot of fun going through them.

> Good action
tons of weapons to chose from, and playstyles as mentioned before

> Good enemies
Cyber ninjas are good, challenging enemies. The game really takes pains for you to figure out the best way to kill certain enemies with different ammo types, different weapons and different strategies. Just researching their bodyparts yields bonus damage against them, which works better than the stupid camera you get in Bioshock.

In DX you basically get a choice between blowing open the door, using a one-time collectable electronics tool, using a one-time collectable lockpick, hacking the door open, searching painstakingly for the keyring, or reading a boring data-cube for the code. Most of these choices are fucking busywork.

The choice of weapons in DX is also dogshit. You get your stock standard pistol, stock standard shotguns, stock standard assault rifle, rocket launcher, sniper, whatever. Most of the weapons aren't satisfying at all.

>>3735214
kek

>>3757281

No I'm not bothered by criticism of the game. But meleeing enemies is also not hard and just requires a high enough melee skill. I have a feeling you were at trained melee skill and/or also aiming at the wrong place. The hit box for melee attacks is the not same for guns. You shouldn't be aiming near the head for melee attacks.

>tfw no non-defect route
I just wanna be a fascist working at UNATCO, game.

>>3758208

They actually had planned a whole alternative arc around this but it was cut because they couldn't finish it in time. There is still some dialogue left in the game from the unfinished facist arc. After finding the evidence in the basement of the NSF warehouse, instead of going to the roof to send the distress signal, go all the way back to Paul and it will play the defect arc dialogue. It doesn't go any further than that though, they never got around to that.

>>3758517
Was there anything actually further planned?
Would sticking with UNATCO further just delay Helios from getting in JC's head or would he hide behind Page until it came time to usurp him?

>>3758517
It's actually harder than that, you have to be a total UNATCO poster boy to get that dialogue to play - save Gunther, complete objectives as ordered (take NSF leader on Liberty alive), fight alongside Anna, etc.

>>3758517
Did they? I don't think they have ever mentioned it in the bible or design documents

Welcome the coalition JC might as well start using your codename

Does someone have a YT link to the "loyal to UNATCO" dialog?

>>3759531
What was his name again? Jean-Claude?

It's a weird thing to find out way at the end of the game only by reading a nameplate on a bio-tank.

>>3760324
Jesus Christ

>>3760345
That's the joke not his actual name

>>3760352
Well it isn't Jean-Claude that's for sure

>>3760370
It says Jean-Claude on the tank beside Paul's

>>3760324
JOHN CENA

>>3760393
Stop lying.
Don't make me reinstall

Its a great game but it's a System Shock 2 rip off

<table>
<tr><td>Looks</td><td>Like</td></tr>
<tr><th colspan="2" >SHIT</th></tr>
</table>

Deus Ex 1999

>oOoo, so edge
>most red pilled game ever!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aIXwMc20TE

The original was stale as fuck. Meanwhile, Lazarus' dialog alone in Human Revolution alone was more red pilled than the entire first game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUK8EMX25VI

>>3735060
I love Deus Ex, but its not quite as tightly designed as System Shock 2 or Thief.

>>3760737
I actually had to check at first to make sure Lazarus wasn't actually voiced by Penn Jillette.

>>3760968
I really can't agree that SS2 is tightly designed at all. It honestly feels like they just did not know what they were doing.

>>3761010
>It honestly feels like they just did not know what they were doing.

Thats how I feel about Deus Ex. Has even worse RPG mechanics, story, and pacing than System Shock 2.

>>3761084
Anon stop it it's not funny and you need to take your life seriously instead of trolling on 4chan. Think of your future, not the lulz.

>>3761091
I'm not trolling. I legitimately don't see how Deus Ex is better than System Shock 2. I love the game, but its undeniably a messily designed game.

>>3761109
I really can't agree. It's not about being hard or about being mechanically interesting, it's about being fun and telling a story with mechanics that support the narrative. SS2 is not fun to play.

>>3761114
>SS2 is not fun to play.

I found it very fun and immersive, myself.

>>3740546
Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament

>>3761134
Unreal ('97), Half-Life, Duke Nukem 3D

Are there any other good retro FPS/RPG's like DX?

>>3735950
2017 is the best year for gaming so far, cause nothing is stopping you from playing all the shit already made in the past.

>>3762472
>yfw there have been no good games released in 2017 so /v/irgins have to retreat to the past

Thanks for proving our point that retro games are superior to modern games.

spawnmass lam 255

>>3762489
>tfw it's still january and people are bitching about this
retro games are good in their own way but saying they're superior is fucking retarded.

Did my post not go through? Weird.
I just finished Deus Ex and I liked it. the gameplay isn't that good (although I did like the augmentation and leveling up system + upgrades for guns) but I loved the multiple ways you could traverse a level. I also liked the world building. I wouldn't mind playing this again in the future. One game this really reminds me of is VtmB. Are there any other games very similar to Deus Ex.

>>3762553
The only reason we notice shit games now is because we have access to almost every single game released these days in a digital format, and thousands of hours of videos of said games, and gigabytes of discussion and opinion of them.

>>3761109
They're strong at different things so it depends on what you prefer. SS2 is better at creating tense moments and forcing you to juggle your limited resources. DX has a shit ton more to explore, especially philosophically.

>>3762841
system shock, thief, ultima underworld, arx fatalis, stalker. have fun

>>3746090

I may be the only person on Earth who liked Invisible War.

>Crazy ragdoll physics you can throw bodies around, explosions causes bodies to get stick on roofs with hilarious results
>you can knock out your enemies with the Boltcaster, pile the bodies in one spot and they will emit a pain scream as they die executed by your Dragon's Tooth edge
>The different factions will fight each other or you can bait them to do it.
>You can save little schoolgirls from Religious fanatics or kill them if you're an asshole
>The best waifus in the whole series (Female Alex D. Billie Adams, Klara Sparks)
>NG Resonace, that was a proto-Hatsune Miku and also an spybot that was voice by the vocalist of an edgy 90's band.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQCHiIgS2us

>>3764730
I thought that everyone liked Invisible War.
Just not AS much as the original since so much of it was dumbed down.

>>3735132
or maybe just the best rpg, since non-western rpg a shit

>>3735060