/vr/ - Retro Games

>>3733195
Yes but the blocky textures look awful and the controls make it unplayable

>>3733206
Ianfag, stop trying to bump off the e-celeb thread just so you can make a new one.

For some reason I like unfiltered low-res textures a lot more. But Mario's model in the remake looked really weird and bizarre though I can't exactly tell why.

>>3733215
His hands are too big.

>>3733215

It's because the textures on the DS version completely change the aesthetic. That grass looks like it belongs in OOT, not SM64.

>>3733228
Good point.

>>3733206
>>3733215
This

Is technically better (only in some regards though), but N64 version is more aesthetic.

The 64 one feels better

>>3733206
The controls are really not that bad.

>>3733206
Play it on a 3DS.

>>3733206
n64's texture filtering is vomit inducing

>>3733206
the controls for mario 64 on the ds were terrible

Everyone commenting on the controls being shit on the remake;
You do realize it was meant to played with the thumb-strap that came with your NDS, right?

>>3733939
From what I've heard, it still worked like shit.
The only way I was able to make this playable was on an emulator and with clever use of autohotkey.

For most games, I can't stand N64 graphics and SM64 is definitely... very N64.

Never had a problem with the controls, but then again, I'm not a unskilled bitch either. They are not optimal, but they do work. I even played it with WASD on an emulator once and that still worked.

>>3733195

>>3733956
>>3733939
> From what I've heard, it still worked like shit.
I owned it, got 150 stars on it several times. And let me tell you, I tried the thumb strap control. I even forced myself to play with it. And it really works like absolute shit.

It's supposed to work like this: you move by holding the stylus/thumb strap down on a screen; a target-like circle appears under the point where you touch, and you can move the stylus in some direction go in that direction. The further you move it from the center, the faster you run.

So hey, sounds like an on-screen analog, right? Then what's the caveat? The caveat is, this piece of shit repositions itself every time you lift the stylus off. This makes it extremely disorienting and it's just hard to keep track of, even more so when you have no feedback like from a solid plastic stick under your thumb. In result, you pretty much HAVE to look at that circle just to walk in the right direction, or otherwise you'll soon find yourself making loops around the same spot.

It's as atrocious as riding a reverse steering bike. You can't even concentrate on the action because you have to pay attention to that target. Even if you somehow manage to look at two screens at the same time, it's still extremely distracting. I couldn't even make basic moves like triple jump and such properly because of it.

And the worst thing about it? You'll soon realize that you play vastly better on a D-pad. In all of SM64DS, I have never, EVER had any need for the touch control. It's simply worse in every case you can imagine in the game. D-pad It's not perfect, maybe. But once I got used to it, it felt surprisingly comfortable. Not as smooth or intuitive as on N64, but still fine.

As for the thumb strap, in general it never clicked with me, because your thumb always blocks the view on an already tiny screen. And yes, it blocks half of the target circle in SM64. It's also very inaccurate because it's rounded.

>>3734173
>they replaced a dinosaur that wasn't supposed to be Yoshi, with Yoshi

>>3734234
That's not its sclera, it's wearing goggles.

>>3734173
Ew the DS scuttlebags look awful, would not invite them to my jamboree.

Are the controls better if you play it on a 3DS with the Circle Pad? Can anyone confirm that it moves in more than 8 directions on the 3DS?

There was a lot of mysticism lost in the DS version. Every level had a map on the lower screen and it just made the worlds seem so much smaller because of it. Then there's the inclusion of Wario, Luigi, and Yoshi. The feeling of total isolation made Mario's journey feel more dire, and having the others stripped that away entirely. And lastly, the biggest issue I have is the art change. I understand the modernization, but things like Jolly Rodger Bay losing the mist in the skyband the waters losing their murkyness instantly made the level 10x as small to me.

This is from a guy who beat the DS version twice over and just recently got the original again for Xmas. As outdated as the graphics are, the direction the art was headed in the original game really shouldn't have been sacrificed in the update.

>>3733195

>that puke green color for grass

I liked most of what they did with this game besides that, and the terrible controls.

>>3733195
Top kek kid. The DS couldn't handle the N64 version. They had to do a light weight remake the under powered DS could handle. Having a low resolution display helped a lot.

>>3734247
wow, a pannenkoek meme...

>>3734414
But, regardless of the art choices, DS version looks better in almost anything but resolution and texture filtering.
Just compare Mario models.

>>3734173

It pains me to even know such a thing exists, I was better off as a human before I looked at this

I still can't help but wonder what Ocarina of Time on DS would've been like.

I seem to recall that someone at Nintendo even wanted to do a Smash Bros on DS.

The limited hardware really made developers get creative. It's intriguing how some of them went about bringing triple-A franchises to the platform. The Wii and DS were at least interesting as exercises in lateral thinking.

>>3734173
Can you even QPU jump in Mario DS?

>>3733195
The ds graphics literally look like psx graphics but without the judder

>>3733195
>>3733206
In this case, the N64 version is an example of "more saturation =/= better".

N64's grass looks more like diseased snot than anything. DS actually looks like a grassland.

>>3734463
>wow, an extremely overused pannenkoek meme

>>3735014

I'm glad they waited one more generation before doing OOT on 3DS, though I still think some of the game's atmosphere was lost by ditching the fog.

>>3735050
The bare ground also looks like literal shit on N64

>>3735050
That was RAMs fault. DS had far better methods of using the same amount of ram. So larger more colorful textures could exist. Even with the RAM expansion to 8megs, the ds would still be able to cram more textures into the 4megs it had.

>>3735309
but why the hell would they limit DS hardware to nearest neighboring texture filtering if they were going to port n64 games to it

>>3733195
>Was the DS just more powerful?
The answer is no. If you do a technical breakdown of the two Mario 64 versions with tools you'll find the N64 version uses more polygons. Obviously the 64 version also had texture filtering and anti-aliasing, while the DS version did not.

The thing is that in the 8 years between the two releases, Nintendo got way better at developing 3D games. They could model a more "detailed" Mario model by using fewer polygons.

Ive completed both games 100% the ds port is good but n64 is so much better,they made too many changes to the DS game,i didnt like playing as the other characters and the bottom screen is just a distraction

>>3735453

>If you do a technical breakdown of the two Mario 64 versions with tools you'll find the N64 version uses more polygons
Could you back that claim up? It certainly doesn't look like thta.

>>3733206
use the thumb thing. it plays totally fine.

>>3735050

Disagree, the DS' colors look too washed-out and realistic for a Mario game.

>>3733876
use a CRT.

>>3735453
OP here, so could the n64 actually provide the same output as the 3ds? Like I do enjoy the the n64 more personally. I remember getting my first ODS and being amazed saying "wow a portable n64!" Could the models on the n64 surpass the ODS models?

>>3734173
To be fair the faggot ones do look more like something that belong in a Mario game.

>>3734173
Both designs are improvements.

>>3735965
>>3735943
I really want a mario game where the world and enemies are foreign again. A game where they try to make the environment more real or uncanny. Like how LoZ has 20 different styles. I wanna see Mario thrown into something fresh again.

>>3735864
While I agree that they look unusually washed out for Mario, they look a lot better than that horrid N64 palette.

>>3736015
The new Mario game looks like it will have both real/uncanny enviroment, and also fresh ideas and new enemies never before seen on Mario games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kcdRBHM7kM

>>3735965
Only the scuttlebug looks better I personally think.

>>3735332
Because while the blurry look was cool in 1996, it didn't age well. PS1 graphics generally held up better - that is, if you ignore the waggly polygons. The DS is the best of both worlds.

That's not to say texture filtering is bad - it looks fine when the textures are relatively large. But textures on the N64 and DS were just too low resolution for it to look like anything other than a muddled mess. Same way how when you emulate an NES game and upscale it with bilinear filtering it looks like garbage, but when you're playing more recent games with high-resolution detailed art, filtering can look great.

>>3736057
>that is, if you ignore the waggly polygons
Which are hard to ignore when they're very noticeable on both CRTs and HD TVs.

the N64's anti-aliasing is much more tolerable (and even welcome) on CRTs.

>>3736048
>and also fresh ideas
video unrelated?

>>3736060
If you disable the waggle in an emulator, you can definitely see how much better the nearest-neighbor filtering looks.

Point was, the DS look is just the PS1 with good polygon stability, and it holds up a lot better than the typical N64 game.

>>3736071
Yeah it's still a Mario game alright, but I thought it looked less like a rehash of ideas/enviroments/enemies than the "New SMB" and "3D Land/World" games.
Final boss is still Bowser (or so it seems) and there's a few classic baddies like hammer bros, but I've seen more new enemies... in fact I don't think I've seen a single goomba on that trailer, they can't be absent though.

>>3736078
>post-4th gen
>emulation

>>3736082
Yes, post-4th gen emulation. N64 and Saturn emulation may be trash, but PS1 and Dreamcast emulation is quite good.

>>3736057

>PS1 graphics generally held up better - that is, if you ignore the waggly polygons.
What you're saying is, PS1 games look like utter shit on real hardware and only begin to look good when you emulate them.

>>3735861
>thumb strap
See: >>3734205

>>3736250
read the whining of a manbaby about a kids toy? no thanks.

>>3733195
I highly doubt it, the DS just had better textures and probably more colours

>>3734243
What happens if he removes those goggles?

>>3735929

In terms of pure numbers, the N64 is better at crunching polygons than the NDS.
The NDS has a hard limit of 2048 polygons per frame, or 122880 per second at 60fps.
The N64 can supposedly do 160,000 with all hardware features enabled, perhaps more with specialised microcode.

>>3736313
The goggles do nothing

>>3735856
>Could you back that claim up?
The site that did the comparison doesn't seem to exist anymore, but it's pretty easy to verify if you extract the models for both systems.

Basically the Mario model in Mario 64 (and quite a lot of enemies) use a LOT of unnecessary extra polygons, but you can pretty much chalk that down to inexperience with 3D at the time.

>That's not to say texture filtering is bad - it looks fine when the textures are relatively large. But textures on the N64 and DS were just too low resolution for it to look like anything other than a muddled mess
No, this is pretty much rubbish. No matter the resolution, texture filtering will (almost) always look better in 3D. The only exception is where pixels will always align with the grid (e.g. 2D games or "vector-style" textures.

However, liking nearest-neighbor arbitarly-rotated "raster-style" textures is perfectly legitimate for nostalgia or novelty reasons. I know it gives people the kicks to see big pixels and go "woah I'm playing a fucking old game".

The problem is there are many instances where N64 games used lower-resolution textures than PS1, and that is where the muddiness comes from. Part of that is due to technical difficulties with programming the system, but part of that is simply that N64 had more "open-world" games where you have to display a larger number of textures simultaneously so each individual texture has to be lower-resolution.

Also N64 emulators can't replicate N64 texturing for shit. UV coordinates are usually wrong, and the filtering itself is fucked. Many N64 textures were pre-filtered with the expectation of being subject to a triangulated form of texture-filtering. When you expose them to the quad-filtering used in emulations, it distorts the textures making them even blurrier than the real console.

>>3736401
>No, this is pretty much rubbish. No matter the resolution, texture filtering will (almost) always look better in 3D
Nah texture filtering makes low res would-be blocky textures even worse looking. But it looks great on high res textures.

>>3736363
Oh.

>>3736447
>Nah texture filtering makes low res would-be blocky textures even worse looking
You can check the image I posted above which shows two 64x64 textures. That's a pretty typical size for N64/PS1 games. As I said, there are instances where nearest neighbor will give better results but it's few and far between in 3D games.

The best you can hope for with filtering off is that the aliasing noise will be misinterpreted by the player as extra "detail" (of course that's wrong because in actual fact filtering is more "detailed" - it involves more reads of the source texture). Most of the time though, nearest-neighbor just looks shimmery and ugly.

>>3736401
>Basically the Mario model in Mario 64 (and quite a lot of enemies) use a LOT of unnecessary extra polygons,
Hmm... I don't know.
Here's a model comparison. N64 on the left, DS on the right. DS is way more detailed.

>>3736525
There are some exceptions obviously, considering some NPCs in Mario 64 looked REALLY basic like the penguins.

>>3736454
Google it new faggot. Then come back and enjoy the fun.

>>3736525
Now that's an improvement. DS on the left, 64 on the right.
The DS rabbit may be way more detailed than MIPS, but Mips really had wasted polygons for something so simple that doesn't even have hands.

>>3736489
Left looks better.

>>3736163
Better than N64 games, which don't look good anywhere.

>>3736896
here's what one of the best looking PS1 games looks like on real hardware

>>3736910
here's what one of the best looking N64 games looks like on real hardware

>>3736910
>Soul Reaver
>best looking
In what universe?

>>3736914
>picking literally the only scene that doesn't run at 15fps

>>3736692
Are you an idiot? Mips is one character, that appears one place in the game. Are you really suggesting that ten fewer polygons would have made any difference?

>>3736918
>"The graphics are among the best that have ever been on the PlayStation"
http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/legacy-of-kain-soul-reaver-review/1900-2548115/

>picking literally the only scene that doesn't run at 15fps
how many scenes you want?

>>3736928
Calm down there, buddy.

>>3736929
>>"The graphics are among the best that have ever been on the PlayStation"
>http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/legacy-of-kain-soul-reaver-review/1900-2548115/

>gamespot review from 1999 is 100% accurate forever

>>3736932
What are the best ps1 graphics in your opinion? Omega Boost?

>>3736910

That's the PC port

PS1 Version had a lot more warping

>>3736930
Yeah, you're right. I apologize.

>>3736942
no its captured from the PS1 version

the warping is there its just its less visible in the webm than TV cause its small

>>3736932
A review from 1999 about the best PS1 game is accurate forever, yes. As they weren't biased by the technology that came after neither did they see it through the distorted lens of nostalgia.

>>3736932

Gamespot were harsh as fuck in their reviews then

For them to give praise to something in 99 actually meant something.

>>3736945

I love SR1 it's a great game, but man the warping and texture poppong was brutal in indoor scenes and in many areas it ran no better than Conkers

>>3736949
yes, i think it shows well that in an apples vs apples like a freeform action-adventure game the N64 always looked better and had a better framerate

the "n64 has bad framerates" meme is because people compare technically undemanding PS1 games like fighters against sprawling world games like conker, banjo, etc instead of actual like-for-like. spyro was only smooth cause they went for simplistic graphics making up for simplicity with a good artstyle, i think it was pretty clever use of PS1 hardware

>>3736951
To be fair ps1 ports tend to run worse on the N64.
Something about the way the PS1 tiled textures is really resource demanding on the 64.

>>3736959
>To be fair ps1 ports tend to run worse on the N64.
the thing is that it's the other way around as well, and the results are worse if anything

>Something about the way the PS1 tiled textures is really resource demanding on the 64.
nah, if I would have a guess it's because only has one pool of memory which each component has to take turns sharing so optimization is very important

if you just copy and paste PS1 code straight onto the N64 you'll get stalls because each component will be sitting idle waiting for its turn to use memory, also PS1-style optimizations like tessellation are pointless on the N64 and harmful to performance if not removed

>>3736489
You're delusional. N64 graphics looked like somebody went into photoshop and used the smudge tool on everything, as perfectly demonstrated by your picture.

What's with the sudden sony vs nintendo rampant shitposting?
It's because of the Switch event?

>>3737158
Seems like it. Every time Nintendo announces new games, Sony fans go apeshit.
Didn't help that Nagoshi (the creator of Yakuza) was present at the Switch presentation.

Mario 64 DS being worse is a meme N64fags parrot so they don't have to admit they lost another one of their system's best games to a fucking handheld.

>>3737203
Who cares, no one is keeping score.

>>3737203
That's some twisted console warrior logic right there.

>>3737203
>have to play on a tiny screen
>better

>>3733678
>using "aesthetic" as an adjective
Is this a new meme, or are you just critically retarded?

>>3737610
It's about a year-old meme. It sprung from all the vaporwave autism last year.

>>3737203
>im so new i nostalge for the ds
top kek kid

>>3734234
That's not a dinosaur.

>>3737203
>lower resolution
>worse controls
>mutilated art direction
>worse sound
>implying SM64DS isn't total dogshit

>>3738737
>lower resolution
240p to 196p isn't as big a downgrade as day, 1080p to SD. Quit bitching about this - it's an idiotic complaint.

>worse controls
>Muh analog!
Game plays just fine with the D-pad. N64 kiddies just like to say otherwise because the analog control was touted as revolutionary during SM64's release.

>mutilated art direction
Objectively false. And enjoy your godawful color pallete.

>worse sound
>N64
>Good sound
TIP TOP KEK

>>3733939
Yes, it was still uncomfortable shit.

>>3738764
Noy him but what's wrong with N64's sound?

>>3736937
Crash 2 looks fucking better than this shit. Fuck, Crash ONE looks better.

Has anyone ever thought of making a PS1 port just for the hell of it?

>>3741090
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuH7RDIDZN4

>>3738764
>>lower resolution240p to 196p isn't as big a downgrade as day,

It's pretty obvious though. Only really fixable with emulation and muh filters. Now if only someone made a cheap Video-Out cable for the NDS and 3DS. AFAIK, you can only video-out with a dev kit.

>>3741475

The N3DS can stream video from 3DS games using NTR CFW. I hear it's imperfect though, maybe a bit below RemoteJoyLite.

>>3741098
is this what tripping on acid feels like?

>>3742210
Yeah

>>3741098
That's pretty cool. Honestly I can't figure out why it took PSX emulation authors until recently to implement perspective correct rendering.

Of note, screen-space texturing looks awful on the N64 because designers didn't have to break their geometry into smaller parts to compensate for the fucked up perspective, they had perspective correct model-space texturing all along.

On the PSX, even simple geometry typically needed to be drawn with many polygons. That's why flat straight hallways looked zigzaged; huge polygons suffered bad distortion, but a collection of smaller ones suffered less overall distortion.

>>3737610
>using "aesthetic" as an adjective
aesthetic
es-thet-ik or, esp. British, ees-]

adjective
1.relating to the philosophy of aesthetics; concerned with notions such as the beautiful and the ugly.
2.relating to the science of aesthetics; concerned with the study of the mind and emotions in relation to the sense of beauty.
3.having a sense of the beautiful; characterized by a love of beauty.
4.relating to, involving, or concerned with pure emotion and sensation as opposed to pure intellectuality

noun
5.the philosophical theory or set of principles governing the idea of beauty at a given time and place:
6.Archaic. the study of the nature of sensation.

>>3734173
Scuttlebug looks better.
I liked Dorie when it looked eerie and being afraid that it could eat me adding to that.

I've been playing the DS version through an emulator, it's framerate is noticeably lower than the N64 version. Is it really that bad or is it just the emulator?

For the record I play MKDS just fine at a smooth fps. Either way I still prefer the N64 version for nostalgia at the bare minimum, it feels like coming home after being on vacation or something.

>>3743469
The video chip for NDS isn't that great, it tends to lag on 3D games with lots of detail.

>>3738764
>Game plays just fine with the D-pad.
The d-pad is terrible, but that's not the only thing that sucks about the controls. They watered down the physics, speed, and movement mechanics laughably.

Feels like you're swimming through molassas in comparison to the original.

>>3743858
>lag is a characteristic of a video chip
i don't think you know how technology works

>>3742407
What a piece of shit machine.

>>3734173
>That DS scuttlebug
disgusting would not raise

>>3734305
agree

>>3733195
I know a lot of people probably enjoyed this and thought it was a interesting idea but I really hated the fact you couldn't play as Mario right from the start in the DS version, I always felt so wrong playing as Yoshi when I was younger because I almost felt like I did something wrong. That's probably just me though.

>>3735050
i disagree too ds one looks like shit.

>>3743461
>being afraid that it could eat me
so I wasn't the only one. I remember being shook over this desu, especially since I have a really weird hangup about being eaten in video games (even the big fish in smb3 world 3 is a problem). finally I plucked up my courage and buttstomped his head, and nothing happened.

>>3745189
I was afraid because the sign in the same area said to be careful to not end up as Dorrie's lunch.

I was afraid of that stupid fish in Tiny-Huge Island and those fish from Yoshi's Story.

>>3745225
oh yea, now I remember.

>>3734173
I like old scuttlebug and new Dorie

>ds vs 64 devolves into fanboy shit fight about ps1 vs n64 because of some autist
never change /vr/

>>3736163
being this autistic about the n74

>>m-m-muh failed console was perfect!

>>3736951
lol very, very few games, likely less than 10 in the tiny n64 library, would even be better than average on a PS or Saturn.

>>3743905
lol the great autismo weighing in
>>the n64 was perfect! With it's tiny library! And no good RPGs or fighting games! But hey, look at all the exclusives aimed at 9 year olds!

>>3746498
>>3746493
>>3746482
>muh library
>muh rpgs
N64 haters are sad

>>3733195
Is they a texture DS texture pack for the n64 version yet?

>>3738764
You never actually play the original on original hardware, did you sport?

>>3735453
>>3736321
>>3736401
>>3736489

you're trying so hard to educate them. god bless you anon.

>>3746498
Inb4

>But SFA3 would been ported to the n64 meme

>>3746519
Did it now.
It looks... different. Fresher.

Also, this guy hacked N64 textures into the DS version and I can see why they changed Bob-omb Battlefield colors. Yoshi is hard to see against the original textures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mROFE3V0OUA

>>3746498
In fairness, most people who owned one were around 9-12 at the time.

>>3749301

Let's talk about fucked-up remakes/ports/remasters besides Mario.

And now this cheap piece of crap will resurface again as Hyper Street Fighter 2 Turbo.

>>3749301
>>3749314
Looks better t b h

>>3749317
This is Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix, a botched 7th gen Super Turbo "remaster" with shitty sprites done by Udon hacks, shovelware artists and helmed by some idiot player who somehow ended working for Capcom.

Even straight ripping off Capcom artist Edayan art for SF 2 Turbo Revival (GBA), they sucked so much at drawing that Capcom was forced to trash about 2500 animation frames and remake the remaster from scratch. And it still looked like crap.
https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2017/jan/16/did-you-know-capcom-wanted-do-alpha-3-instead-hd-remix-they-scrapped-2500-animation-frames-development/

>>3749347

DAT ASSSSSSS

>>3749301
Was it easy? How'd you do it?

>>3749408
Just renamed the DS textures to their N64 equivalents and threw it on the emulators high resolution folder. Pretty easy using project64 2.1.
I had to edit some, and the DS version has more textures than the original.

The textures came with a stage model that I downloaded at models-resource.

>>3733195
n64 looks like shit.

>>3749347
Painful to watch.

I appreciate that Udon is translating some Capcom artbooks, but the rest of the stuff they do: comics, fan art, etc, it's horrible. Even worse, it seems they are influencing Capcom Japan decisions, which my explain the horrible art Street Fighter games are having since Street Fighter 4.

>>3751409
Are you Indian?

>>3733195
the textures and models in the DS version were superior in an objective sense (although I dislike the washed-out look of the new textures) HOWEVER this is offset by the fact that the DS version has a much lower resolution, resulting in in things looking like shifting pixels as they move around.

conclusion: original is superior.

And that's not even getting into how horrible the control scheme for the DS version is. I can understand having to get by with a D-pad, but they required you to hold a button to run, despite the fact that you're going to be spending 99% of your time playing SM64 by running. And this just made many maneuvers tediously difficult. Tying Holding Y and also hitting the A button without also accidentally hitting X and/or B.

>>3751548
What?

>>3734263
It's better on 3ds, yes

>>3743867
You could never get that fast in Mario 64 without destroying your controller though

>>3751834
Not true. I've been using the same n64 controller for a while now. Just grease up the bowl a bit and it'll last for like 3000 hours.

If that's not good enough, get a gamecube to n64 adapter or a hori mini pad.

>>3743890
Explain?

>>3733223
totally true

>>3733206
>hold down Y button at ALL TIMES
>let go and Mario literally just moseys like he's getting the fucking mail or something

>"the controls aren't THAT bad!!!"

>>3734173
I liked the old ones, they're more weird looking.

>>3734263
The 3DS doesn't magically make the game more than 8 directional digital movement with a run button.

>>3733195
kill yourself faggot.

>>3751567
Basically my exact thoughts on it. Would be cool if someone could mod the controls of the game to work better on the 3DS control stick, as well as have Y set to walk instead of run.

Also, an HD texture mod along-side for emulators would be the bees fucking knees.

I prefer the DS art style of Mario 64 and the Dreamcast style of Sonic Adventure.