/vr/ - Retro Games

>>3705308
No, it got overall good scores because, at the time, it was a fun, fresh take on Sonic, with a style that hadn't been seen before.

Back then, people were more used to games being janky. Clipping was in EVERY game, and it was acceptable. Hell, it still is today.

But by the time DX came out, we already had SA2, which was a big improvement, and the PS2, Xbox, and GC were up and running. Games became less janky, and since DX was a lazy port of a rushed game that's aged poorly, it just couldn't compete.

By then, just four years later, it was a game out of it's time.

>>3705308
I don't know why people on /vr/ are so obsessed over "overrated". Games, or games they feel are too well loved or remembered. What really gets me going are classic games reviews where the initial reviews were 5-6.5 or whatever.

>>3705308
It was a decent game for the time, but aged really fast.

>How come the DX version which was only released a few years later got absolutely slammed in reviews?
It was released in 2003, Sonic Adventure was already dated by then.

The GameCube port of Resident Evil 2 also got slammed in reviews in the same year by similar reasons.

DX version had fugged frame rate issues according to reviews. DC version is still fun now.

I remember getting my dreamcast for christmas and this game was the fucking bomb,tried to play it again recently though and its terrible.

>>3705409
RE2 got bad reviews on GameCube primarily because Capcom had the chutzpah to release an upscaled PS1 game for $40 USD.

>>3705308
>Was it overrated on release?
At release? I don't believe so. It was/is a decent game(the Sonic parts*) despite its problems. The graphics definitely were jaw dropping at the time and for sure helped.

>>3705379
>>3705409
>aged

Be careful using that word around here. All normal well adjusted individuals know exactly what you mean and have no problem with using it. Unfortunately tho, we do have a decent sized group of aspies who will flip their shit over that term.

>>3705308
No. It was genuinely impressive at the time, despite its flaws.
Even when it was played on Game Grumps relatively recently, Arin had to admit that its an incredibly diverse and creative game, warts and all.

>>3705513

It was funny, as shit as Arin is at video games and having opinions in general after beating Perfect Chaos he had to sheepishly admit "Yeah alright, it's a good game" after ragging on it the whole time.

>>3705308

>How come the DX version which was only released a few years later got absolutely slammed in reviews?

Because despite being released later it's objectively worse, along with the later releases based on it by proxy. The awful "free camera" mode it defaults to barely works at all, it's missing many render effects, the new character models are out of proportion and over-shiny and its much glitchier in general. The DC version isn't perfect either, no version of it is, but there's no question in my mind its 'overrated' reputation is partly due to people playing the wrong version.

>>3705308
It was always shit compared to any of the 2D Sonic games.

>>3705308

No. The "3d sonic is bad" meme started only during the e-celeb era, which tells you everything you need to know.

>>3706298

Specifically, Sonic 06 came out and blew up for all the wrong reasons, then out of nowhere the consensus became SEGA WENT DOWNHILL LIKE TEN YEARS AGO BRO despite Shadow being the only one that was critically panned before it. It's fine to for us to sit here and admit the games don't look/play as good as they did when they came out but we're talking about a bunch of preteens who were barely on solid food when the shit came out.

>>3706298
>started only during the e-celeb era
Nice strawmanning.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/198694-sonic-adventure/reviews/4987
http://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/198694-sonic-adventure/reviews/4690
http://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/198694-sonic-adventure/reviews/5595
http://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/198694-sonic-adventure/reviews/13278

>>3706228
>The DC version isn't perfect either, no version of it is,

we're working on it

https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?s=8d95a5f483b036ed8034313482e399a3&showtopic=36292

>>3705308
>How come the DX version which was only released a few years later got absolutely slammed in reviews?

I would say the game we ended up getting is the result of lack of effort and/or competence on the porting team's part. There are many things in SADX that suggest that the developers either didn't fully understand how their own engine worked, or were very, very lazy and/or under severe time constraints.

Even with that new lighting system for characters and stage lighting, they could've done a much better job. For characters, they could've come up with better colorization values that would look a lot closer to the DC version, and doing so would've been very easy given the system they had in place - you can even do it yourself in SADX Preview. In fact the new character lighting thing works very similar to the Dreamcast version (with some added functionality like directional lights). It's just that instead of reading character palettes from PL files, it uses an algorithm that takes several colorization values and produces a palette that is then applied to the model. In SADX Preview, it can be previewed in realtime and there's even two color bars at the bottom representing base and specular palettes, which are exactly what's there in the PL files. They could've made character lighting almost the same, if not better than the Dreamcast version. But for some reason they just didn't.

A lot of the differences in DX's visuals in comparison to the original SA1 seem to not only tell me that they were working VERY quickly, but also that they seemed to want to make SA1 look more in line with SA2.

For stage lighting, apart from making better use of the system they had (up to 4 different lights AFAIK), they could've imitated palettization using vcolors, which they sort of did in some areas like Casino, Final Egg 2 and the Mystic Ruins Chao Garden, but in most other areas it looks like a poor attempt to hide the lack of actual lighting.

>>3706472

Shit, that looks really nice. Really makes you wonder why they half-assed the lighting so badly.

>>3706670
Really makes you wonder why they released that version in 640x480 for Xbox 360 and PS3 with additional fees for mission mode and metal sonic.

>>3706415

>4 guys on the internet

Woah.

It was good on release, it is now now. Nothing in human perception or on the disc has changed in the meantime, it's the exact same experience. I would give it 75%.

At the time when playing it it was a bit of a letdown for me. Nintendo almost never let one of their franchises become a B+ experience.... but I enjoyed the experience and thought it was a pretty fine game, more or less.

Obviously it was hyped to the extreme, this is because it was Sega and their number #1 mascot, it COULDN'T be average, that would be totally unacceptable, it HAD to be brilliant, that's the narrative they pushed. Sega fans felt obliged to hype it. It's amazing how pathetically contrived a lot of people's opinions are (including your own if you're not careful). It doesn't take a genius to figure this out.

>>3706906

Dreamcast brought in a lot of people who never had a Sega system before. I think most people who played SA1 weren't sonic or sega fans. They still gave it great scores.

>>3706387
I don't even thinks Shadow is that bad. If you want a Sonic game, in gameplay and tone, just play it like a Sonic game. If you want more, do the missions and stuff. The the whole tone of the game changes. Some of it is alright, some is fun, some is downright garbage. The game was intentionally about your choices deciding your story.

I feel like it gets panned because people didn't like the edgeyness, which is understandable if you don't view it entirely ironically.

>>3707110
Shadow game was awful, what are you smoking?

>>3707114
Nothing. What exactly was bad about it, aside from the one or two missions that were completely awful (usually find 100 thing)?

>>3705453
Yeah, Capcom was lazy as fuck getting RE on GCN. Even Nemesis was just the DC version, same with Code Veronica X.

>>3706387
I recall Heroes being panned as well due to the "same game 4 times" thing.

>>3705494

Probably because "what they mean" is also retarded

I don't understand people's problem with this game or SA2. They're fun and packed with content.

>It's buggy

Well yeah but so what? It's mostly visual bugs, it rarely interferes with gameplay. It's not like Sonic '06 where you fall through the floor and shit. It loses points for it, sure, but makes it up with all the different modes and overall enjoyment.

>>3707432

to be honest SA2B was mostly a Chao Garden game for me, the main game was just a way to grind for materials.

>>3707314
>Even Nemesis was just the DC version, same with Code Veronica X.
Not at all. RE2 and RE3 were straight up PS1 ports with the main difference being an increased framerate for the video sequences and skippable cutscenes. They don't even have any of the added content from the PC/DC versions.

RECVX was based on the Dreamcast version, but you still have to unlock content like on the PS2 version.

>>3706387
This is kinda bullshit dude, the 3d games after Dreamcast were a non event on release (even the Dreamcast games really)

>>3707314
Ahe>>3707314
Ahem REmake

So which version of Sonic Adventure 2 is better?

Original on DC or Battle on GCN?

>>3707512

Battle probably, just for the content

Honestly I've never played it outside of the multiplayer, I played on DC, but the extra MP stuff is nice to have.

>>3705308
the only complaints about sa1 back then were that it was mostly "hold forward to win", and big the cat's fishing levels turned off a lot of people.

dx is a worse version of sa1 with more glitches and some graphical effects missing.
it was a rushed port in general and unfortunately its what the later ps3/360/pc ports were based on.

>>3707512
Battle has better textures, additional content (VS mode, bigger chao garden options, etc), and an opening video before the title screen.

The only thing the original has over Battle is arguably better directional controls, simply because of the Dreamcast's 360 degree analog stick zone, while the Gamecube has the octagonal one, but honestly the difference is negligible in actual gameplay and then again, arguably for a game like Sonic Adventure it might be better to have the octagonal stick directions rather than loose 360, makes it easier to go on a straight line and change direction, but still the difference is really minimal, both games control about the same, it depends on what controller you feel more comfortable with, really.

They also fucked up one of the cutscenes with Rouge on Battle, for some reason they removed something that was on a computer screen or something, making the cutscene harder to understand if you don't know the context.

Casuals/normal/common gamers of that time didn't cared about the Dreamcast anyways. They cared about the psx and gb/c.
Adventure was praised when released, but Soul Calibur 1 was more praised as Power Stone as must haves for that x-mas year.

Sonic Adventure as a game it is pretty mediocre, but I still have fun with Sonic's gameplay and how you can have shortcuts and other paths, while Adv2 was more polished but it is pretty linear. The DX port fucks the gameplay a lot and each new version of the DX it gets worse and worse.
Dx was also released after SA2 Battle, so most played 2 first and then 1, so it was easily bashed as hell. For some reason SA2 Battle was Sonic's first game for many nintendo fans

>>3707571
>For some reason SA2 Battle was Sonic's first game for many nintendo fans

Maybe modern Nintendo fans (or just people new to games in general), Sonic was pretty well known and most kids had played the Genesis games one way or another, at least at a friend's place, or at some kiosk at store or whatever, Sonic was hugely popular in the 90s.

>>3707582
I was thinking about those that were born around middle 90s and were like 6-8 when SA2 was released on the gc because I read too much that "SA2 BATTLE is best Sonic ever", which doesn't surprise me since it's the first Sonic they played and nostalgia affects a lot.
Old gamers? Sure, Sonic was everywhere, from games, to merchandise, to cartoons, or comics. Others played the genesis games with a cousin or a friend, but one thing is to play in someone's house, another is to own the game and play it often. I could say that it was pretty uncommon for someone to own both Genesis and Snes, it would just one of them with the gameboy as portable. Just some unfortunate kids had the GG with their batteries dying way too often

>>3707432
I liked SA2 in middle school, but even back then it felt like a chore to get through most missions. It only feels more tedious to play now that I'm older.

>>3707736

It's always been that way. It gets good once you start score attacking the levels to get A ranks.

That's when I realized its actually very well designed.

You just don't have the time to master the maps in story mode.

>>3705308
Yes.
It's fun, don't get me wrong, but it's got a ton of issues that would have been really obvious even in 1999 -- like half the level types being pretty fucking terrible being the biggest, most obvious one. Sonic's gameplay is mostly fine, could do with a bit of polish, but it's pretty good.

It really shouldn't have been getting 9/10s across the board like it did, but it's easily a 7/10 game.

mind you, SADX shouldn't have been getting 6/10s and 5/10s not even four years later, even with its issues (why the fuck did they fuck with the player models, Sonic's SA1 model is probably the nicest one he's had in 3D -- he's not as lanky and it's not shiny like in SADX, there are a few genuine bugfixes but now the pathing breaks in different places vs on DC, etc)

>>3707110
I think Shadow's bad for the one reason that the stage design is absolute garbage. I don't care about the tone, just give me interesting stages.

>>3707432
SA1 has its share of fall through the floor issues. I've fallen through the floor a bunch in Speed Highway.
one thing I've always liked about SA2 was the relative lack of glitchiness -- it has its own share of issues, but the engine definitely feels much more solid in SA2

>>3707548
the octagonal gate is much better simply because it means that Sonic can actually go in a straight line (90% of the time, it doesn't matter, but Final Rush is a lot less of a hassle on GC as a result)

>>3705379
>"But by the time DX came out, we already had SA2, which was a big improvement,"

>Even worse platforming(can constantly fall off stages from either shit camera angles or areas that are just out of your control)
>Repetitive level design
>Less enemy mobs with their AI being annoying as shit
>Boring boss battles
>Mecha and Treasure Hunt levels are worse versions of Knuckles and Gamma's levels
>Lack of a hubworld, despite that being the most memorable part of SA1 and literally gave it it's "adventure" title

All the budget just went into the Chao Garden. Only nostalgiafags believe SA2 was a "huge improvement".

>>3707512
Gamecube for both

>>3707571
>The DX port fucks the gameplay a lot

This is the dumbest meme I've seen posted in Sonic threads.

i just bought a dreamcast that came with sonic adventure

think im gonna sell it because im not into sonic
whats a decent price for this game?

5, 10 bucks yeah?

>>3707512
Just get it on Steam. It's on sale right now.

>>3707959
10 is pushing it, it's pretty much the SMB/Duck Hunt of the Dreamcast.

>>3706415
>gamefaqs

Opinion discarded.

>>3707983
>port SA2B to pc
>sell 2P Battle and Chao Karate as "Battle" dlc

thanks sega

>>3705308
Yes, still a better game than the sequel.

>>3705308
Honestly the first time I played, I thought it was terrible.

>>3705308
sonic adventure was pretty awesome on release. The only thing that took away from that was the adventure bit.