/vr/ - Retro Games

Yeah it's what I use.
Not too much to say about it. Has composite out but still hardwired controllers. (Well, besides EXT controllers.)

Just get a cheap famiclone from AliExpress. They have better picture quality than the old ass original consoles.

>>3689705
>implying upscaling and oversaturation is "better"
>ignoring input lag and horrible sound quality

lol k

>>3689610
You will still probably need to replace the belt for the disk system games.
It's definitely a cool system tho.
I'd pick one up.

I got one. It's a very nice thing as long as you can maintain it. The belt in the disk drive will probably need replacing in any you buy nowadays so make sure you can do that.

Biggest bonus is the AV out which the original Famicom didn't have. There's also an EXT port which is just a 9-pin DIN, if you know what you're doing you can mod it to output RGB without any modifications to the case.

>>3689767
CLONE HARDWARE DOES NOT EQUAL EMULATOR HOLY SHIT
99% of Clone consoles are shitty, but they don't have input lag or fucking upscaling, are you serious? How is this like the common conception on /vr/? The only emulator 'clones' I know of are the Retro Freak and the Retron5. Hardware Famicom clones 'famiclones' have been around since 80s and they aren't fucking emulators.

>>3689610
Literally pointless to buy unless you wanna play FDS games, but there are none

>>3689610
I do. Never use it. An AV modded FC with an fdsstick is cheaper and more reliable.

>>3689950
You mean you can't read "START" in romaji? kek

>>3690027
>AV modded
Ew.

>>3690028
On other boards being an underage child might net you some flirts. Here it just gets you called an underage.

>>3689864
>system on a chip
>not emulation
wew lad

>>3690224
>lad doesn't know what emulation is
wew lad

>>3690224
Are you fucking serious?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Entertainment_System_hardware_clone

wew lad is right, fuck.

>>3689864
Is it original hardware? What's that? No? It's attempting to replicate original hardware? Literal text book emulating right there, lad

>Obligatory wew

>>3690197
Either go full quality and RGB mod it, ir stay stock and use RF on original Famicom.
AV modding Famicom is babbys furst mod, ebay kiddo. Top kek.

>>3690456
Holy shit you're impossibly dense. If you legitimately cannot understand the difference between software emulation and hardware clones, you need to get the fuck back to /r/retrogaming. You're fucking wrong.

>>3690458
Definition of emulation
1
obsolete : ambitious or envious rivalry
2
: ambition or endeavor to equal or excel others (as in achievement)
3
a : imitation
b : the use of or technique of using an emulator


>Imitation

Do go on about how famiclones aren't imitating Famicoms.

>>3690464
Your semantic bullshit is pointless when we're talking about software emulation VS. hardware cloning. They are not the same.

Let's keep in mind that you actually said this:
>implying upscaling and oversaturation is "better"
>ignoring input lag and horrible sound quality
>lol k

You're backpedaling because of how fucking stupid your statement was. You opened up with some blatantly wrong information, and now you're using the fucking dictionary to try and prove you're still right. You're not.

>>3690469
NOAC = Emulation

Get over it.

>>3690469
>>3690473
Oh, I'm also not that anon. I'm just another person pointing out that hardware emulation is still emulation

>>3690473
No.
>>3690474
No, it's not.

>>3690494
>"Hardware emulation isn't emulation" ~ Some Retard (Nee you)

>>3690514
The conversation was about hardware clones vs software emulation. It was about some asshat claiming that hardware clones upscaled and had input lag, both of which are false. You're defending an idiot.

>>3690528
No, I'm arguing that hardware emulation is still emulation

>>3690531
That wasn't the argument, it's one you introduced.
see >>3689767
and my response >>3689864

>>3690538
You said >>3689864 "Emulated hardware is not emulating". I'm one of 3 anons to correct you on your extreme stupidity.

>>3690554
You can't quote something I literally did not say

>>3690559
It's right there in the post I linked back to, kid.

>>3690571
You put a statement in quotation marks, and that statement was never posted, kid. That's not how quotation marks work.

>>3690580
Clone - To imitate
Emulate - To imitate

Go lick your wounds somewhere else, child.

>>3689610
I have one. It's great. It has composite video by default (although regardless of which system you get you should RGB-mod it). It's much more convenient using disks with this model, as you only have to flip a switch to go into disk mode, instead of using a separate RAM adapter. However, a RAM adapter is still required to use FDSStick (FDS equivalent of a flashcart).

Get the turbo Twin Famicom (model no. AN-505). Its controllers are a foot (I think) longer than the Famicom and standard Twin Famicom controllers. They're still short, but the extra foot is welcome. Unlike the AV Famicom, controller 2 includes the microphone, which is used in games like Zelda 1 and Kid Icarus. This means that the Player 2 controller does not have select and start buttons though.

The Twin Famicom has slightly muffled audio in comparison to the original Famicom. This is only noticeable in a side by side comparison though, and is fixable with a mod. It's also worth noting that the AV Famicom has its own audio problems with expansion audio games, such as Castlevania 3 and many FDS games. In that case, the expansion audio plays too loud. The Twin Famicom does not have this problem.

The Twin Famicom is unfortunately plagued with the vertical lines problem, which is also present on the original Famicom and the NES toploader.

If you get one, make absolutely sure that the seller includes the power supply. The Twin Famicom uses a strange 7.6v power supply that is very hard to find separately. The only other console I know that uses it is the Famicom Titler.

Overall, I'm very happy with mine.I got a Famicom EXT to NES controller adapter at the same time, so I can use NES controllers on all games that support the EXT port as Player 1 input.

>>3690464
Holy fucking shit you're an idiot.

A famiclone uses the same or similar hardware.

With the exception of the PPU, everything in the Famicom is pretty standard shit that you can buy off the shelf.

And Chinks would just steal the PPU blueprints. I'm willing to bet all the ICs in a famiclone are identical, and the only changes would be in circuit board layout and other minor things.

>>3690838
>Similar
>With the exception of the PPU
So it's EMULATING the real hardware. Interesting

>I'm willing to bet all the ICs in a famiclone are identical

Let's see some proof then

>>3690224
Do you consider 1CHIP SNES models to use emulation?

>>3690684
About the Power supply, that's true.
Some MSX use that plug too. And very very few laptop power supplies.
So It's indeed almost impossible to find a spare one separately.
Only other solution would to power it with some lab power supply, but this would be not really appealing. I REALLY hope some retrocompany will create a few hundred replica supplies for such consoles.

Anyway, yes the Twin Famicom is almost the best solution.
Also make sure the drive belt has been changed to a new one. Those break too like in a normal FDS.

>>3691101
The one I bought came with a 100v-240v input, 7.5v output chinese power supply with a plug adapter to fit the Twin. Seems to work fine.

>>3691115
Is there some name written on the supply so one can search for it on like alibaba?

>>3691126
Apparently is 100-120V input, not 100-240

>>3689610
yea, I have one as well. I recommend them.
Only thing that really bothers me is the FDS boot menu doesn't say 'NINTENDO' in nice big letters like the FC acc-on unit does.

>>3691150
The plug adapter just has a C on it

>>3691161
This blog seems to indicate some of them do show Nintendo rather than FAMICOM but it doesn't say anything about which revisions.
http://kremix.blog72.fc2.com/blog-entry-1158.html

>>3690457
>im a baby and don't need my diapers changed because im full of shit
I AV modded my FC before you were born. Not even jk, as you younglings would say.

>>3691341
I do have to agree with him though.
AV mods have become somewhat obsolete compared to the other solutions available nowadays.
Might be ok if you do it on your own as a quick hack job and you want a cheap solution but in the long run i'd rather choose
RGB or if you don't have a CRT/Framemeister maybe even the new HDMI mod.

>>3691424
I almost shed a tear while reading that tripe. You are truly a product of your degeneration. You sad sad fuck.I have more more CRTs than you have parents.

>>3690684
I use the power supply that came with a Western Digital MyBook hard drive.

It's 12v but the 7805's knock that down to 5v anyways. I never have an issue with it.

>>3691860
I wouldn't have expected words like 'no CRT' or 'HDMI' could trigger the cave dwellers on here this much.

>>3692063
>too ignorant to understand it was ignorance, not a word, that did the "triggering"

is "emulator hardware clones do not exist" the new hot /vr/ meme?

>>3692329
*"hardware clones"

>>3690902
wow, you didn't even know the real significance of the word emulation, and the word clone, AND the word falsification

your parents pay for you can graduate in school isn't it?

>>3692329
It might be. If you try hard enough to make it. Otherwise the rest of us will just stick to the norms where "emulator hardware clone" is just some bullshit some kid on the internet posted once.

>>3692396
>your parents pay for you can graduate in school isn't it?

I've been lurking here and wow..

Hardware clones are not emulation. Is this a case of trolling or...?

>>3692534
There are some hardware clones that do use emulation. See: Retron 5

https://www.libretro.com/index.php/retroarch-license-violations/

But not all hardware clones use emulation. If this were true later model 1CHIP SNES systems sold by Nintendo would be using emulation. It's basically a SNES clone...

Tl;dr both sides arguing here are fucking retarded

>>3692534
Hardware emulators are 100% unarguably emulation. It's emulating authentic hardware. It's emulating.

>>3693319
Every Famicom sold to consumers is an emulator. They're emulating Nintendo's dev units.

>>3693319
every famicom is an emulator emulating a pc compiling and running 6502 assembly

>>3693329
>>3693336

Exactly. Now you get it.
But no, really, famiclones are just glorified emulators.

>>3693329
Actually the dev units are the emulators and the consumer models are the real thing. Some of the dev parts are even called emulators. I'm surprised you don't know this as an underage who was never involved in any way with making any game ever. kek.

>>3689610
Just AV mod a famicom and get a fdsemu and a ram adaptor.

I got my famicom for $50 ($20 + $30 shipping) because I bought a "junk" listing. Saw a visibly bent pin on the connector, straightened it, and it worked.

More reliable than a 30-40 year old disk drive with a shitty drive belt anyway.

>>3693564
Actually, I guess just 30 year old. I'm on vicodin because I just got my wisdom teeth removed a few years too late. Sorry about that.

Oh, also, if you get a twin you'll want to remove the low-pass filter on audio, unless you like that it sounds like it's going through an RF modulator.

Also, stylistically, you cannot compete with red and gold. That's just sexy.

If you need a drawing of how to AV mod a famicom, I can provide it.

>>3693329
Actually, in the days of the Famicom the console was the dev unit. Somewhere on the internet there's a scanned magazine article looking inside Nintendo at how games were made in the mid-to-late 80s in Japan. They just have famicoms and teletypes, basically. True-blue "dev units" first started to become a thing in the days of the N64. Hell, the game boy dev units originally plugged into a famicom.

>>3693370
Most famiclones are

>>3693580
forgot the second thing I was replying to.
Most famiclones do have a real 6502 CPU and 2C03 or 2C07 CPU (2C07 for PAL, 2C03 for NTSC). They usually have a swapped duty cycle on the square wave channels on the audio generator, but apart from that they are 100% faithful to the NES.

I believe the rationale for swapped duty cycles make 60hz games sound better played on 50hz systems. Just something I picked up lurking on the #nesdev IRC channel for years.

>>3693370
You are unbelievably stupid.

>>3693621
He's not stupid, just autistic.

Stupidity is curable.

>>3692550
Really only the side claiming that all clones ever made ever are emulators is fucking retarded.

>>3693623
Fair enough. I've left this thread 3 times, but it keeps popping up on the 1st page, it's like I have to check in to see the shit storm. It won't stop.

>>3692550
the 1chip snes is not a hardware clone, it's a condensation of multiple parts onto a single die. The differences occur due to edge cases and hardware bugs, but the original launch SNES had a DMA bug where it would return garbage data if you wrote to a certain address and then tried to read another one too quickly (I forget the details). All future SNESes don't have that bug, which makes it a hardware difference, but we don't consider non-1chip non-launch SNESes to be emulating.

>>3693627
(or cloning)

>>3693370
What about Famulators smart-guy?

>>3690028
I AV Modded, too.

Works great - see >>3693564 .

Not sure what's so scary about it to you.

>>3693653
Absolutely nothing scary, but I think that AV mod is useless and obsolete now with RGB mod available - you can use it both with OSSC/XRGB units for LCD or CRT. Unlike the AV mod, that is CRT only.

>>3693667
But the NESRGB mod has fake color and is just sticking an FPGA in your console to do all the PPU work. It's not authentic at all. You could just emulate if you want to play NES on an LCD.

>>3693667
Enjoy your awful inaccurate colors that cost you $100 on top of your imported console.

>>3693674
>>3693678
http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

This can be mitigated.

>>3693687
Firebrandx made his palette without calibrating his screen by eyeballing what he saw and trying to match it. He had no method behind it.

His palette confuses purples and oranges on the second level of Castlevania. His palette is a meme, and the colors are still wrong. BMF Final V2 and the new NES Classic palette are both more accurate. BMF V2 used a video capture device to methodically capture colors, and Nintendo made the NES classic palette so I'm not sure exactly what they did.

Either way, Unsaturated is bad and firebrandx when asked just says that he's right and the reason that it appears orange to some is because of differences between NTSC and NTSC-J (which are nonexistant, because a properly calibrated japanese monitor shows the same thing as a properly calibrated amercian monitor, and the famicom and NES both use the exact same PPU to generate colors). He hasn't got a fucking clue what he's talking about.

>>3693705
BTW, calibrated broadcast monitor and NES composite on the left, BMF V2 on the right.

The difference in colors between the two can be explained by the different color gamuts of SMPTE-C phosphors and the LCD's cells, as well as the differences in brightness.

>>3693687
From your own link:
>...Certain CRT colors cannot be reproduced on digital RGB scale.
It's all guesswork. It's literally impossible to capture with 100% accuracy.
>>3693705
>>3693708
This guy gets it.

>>3693705
>properly calibrated japanese monitor shows the same thing as a properly calibrated amercian monitor
What about different black levels, 7.5 IRE and 0 IRE?

>>3693717
Those impact brightness ONLY.
No impact at all on colors, and twiddling the brightness knob to get your black level correct is not hard. Just throw some color bars on the screen and adjust so the darker two bars on the PLUGE are indistinguishable and you've calibrated to the american spec. Works on japanese and american monitors.

Nothing whatsoever to do with colors.

>>3693717
you're throwing out terminology you've heard thrown around without understanding the underlying principles. That's where you got the idea that unsaturated wasn't shit from.

In the audio world, people who claim that vinyl is legitimately better than 44.1khz sampled digital audio are similarly wrong. Don't get me wrong, I love the physical act of starting a vinyl record and just letting it run until the end, but no one who understands the Nyquist theorem will tell you that CD audio is worse.

>>3693724
to be clear, it is possible to properly capture the colors from a NES. However, unsaturated does not do so. FirebrandX eyeballed it from an uncalibrated monitor and called it gold.

>>3693726
to clarify the clarification:
No two devices will capture colors the same, but it IS possible to be more accurate than 'eyeballing a screen' by at least being consistent about your methodology like BMF is.

>>3693724
>In the audio world, people who claim that vinyl is legitimately better than 44.1khz sampled digital audio are similarly wrong. Don't get me wrong, I love the physical act of starting a vinyl record and just letting it run until the end, but no one who understands the Nyquist theorem will tell you that CD audio is worse.

While this may be true there are still reasons to prefer vinyl over CDs. It's not the medium as much as it is the trends in mastering that gained popularity over it's lifespan. This only really applies to music that was originally released on vinyl before CDs even existed.

>>3692550
Only way to authentically play retro games is to use day1 release consoles. Everything else is impossible to enjoy with my high level of autism.

>>3694081
Reel to reel tapes are far superior to vinyl and from the same period.

If someone's lost the master tapes for your music before they could be re-done with a modern equalization curve, then sure. I love the first Procol Harum album and it has this kind of problem. First generation master tapes have been lost for decades.

Anyway, music in the 60s was typically released both on vinyl and reel-to-reel. Vinyl was more accessible but definitely lower quality than a tape, which was close to master quality.

>>3694430
Meme in a nutshell.

>>3694578
Beyond the master tapes being lost (another example is almost everything ever released by ABC records, they destroyed them deliberately so they didn't have to pay to store them) there's the rape of dynamic range that happens with many remastered releases. There's usually not much choice between the first generation of CD releases from the 80s which are nice and quiet but can sound a bit too weak and the more modern ones which are all too often mastered carelessly. It's a shame I don't have the what.cd comments to tell me which is the right one to get anymore. Sometimes it would be an old CD. Sometimes it would be a newer one done with care. Other times a fantastic vinyl rip like the ones done by PBTHAL would be the best way to experience an album. Now I just have to guess.

>>3694592
I have ripped virgin vinyl before, and I think I do an okay job (although I definitely am conservative with recording levels). Also I did overkill the sampling rate (and 24-bit flac).

https://archive.org/details/Phluph

It's a shame, though, that's for sure.

>>3693625
You could, you know, 'hide thread' if you don't like the truth.

>>3693630
lol

>>3693678
>>3693674
>inaccurate/fake colors
?

>>3695176
The NES never generates anything besides NTSC (or PAL, depending on your PPU) video. At NO POINT is an RGB color ever computed. It works entirely in the YIQ (or YUV, depending on your PPU) color space.
Therefore, any RGB palette must be based on a decoding of colors in another color space, which is not rigorously defined, especially with the triangle wave the NES substitutes for a proper subcarrier signal (which is a sinusoidal wave).

That, combined with the fact that the NESRGB and HDMI NES mod don't use very accurate palettes, makes colors look like shit.

>>3695182
Also the official Nintendo consoles that outputted RGB have shit palettes. The Famicom Titler is okay (not great, has trouble with emphasis bits), and is extremely hard to find. The arcade machines all have crappy colors.

Is there anyone who RGB mods Twin Famicoms? I've got a AN-500B and don't give a fuck about color palettes or any of that shit.

>>3693625
I actually did hide the thread on my desktop, but I'm on vacation visiting family and the thread wasn't hidden on my portable devices. At any rate I feel vindicated because that guy has been called out as an asshat and I know that I'm right regardless. And I made you lol, so that's always a nice feeling.

>>3695171
I actually did hide the thread on my desktop, but I'm on vacation visiting family and the thread wasn't hidden on my portable devices. At any rate I feel vindicated because that guy has been called out as an asshat and I know that I'm right regardless. And I made you lol, so that's always a nice feeling.

>>3695238
I could, but I don't approve of abominations like RGB on a NES. So I won't.

>>3695310
I AM that guy. Go ahead and feel vindicated because no spin any of you try to put on it will make clone hardware less of an emulator.

>>3689610
So that's what this was supposed to be

>>3695827
Oh lol, I can't believe you haven't given up on your "I'm wrong and everyone knows, but I can't admit it to save face on 4chan" crusade yet.

>>3695827
Transistors don't care whether they were made by Ricoh or UMC or MOS or Intel or whatever. Electronics manufactured in the exact same configurations don't behave differently depending on the factory they were built in.

If a 1:1 identical clone is an emulator, then the real thing is an emulator.

Are you going to claim next that any Atari 800 with a 6502 CPU made by Rockwell instead of by MOS is emulated, even though Rockwell licensed the rights to produce the CPU from MOS and Atari service stations often used Rockwell parts to replace defective CPU's?

(I know this because I have a large collection of new-old-stock parts from a local service station. Also the service manuals.)

>>3696285
It's more like a "I've already pointed out the text book term for 'emulation' twice and these clone consoles fit the bill" crusade.

>>3696494
>1:1
>Nothing 1:1 posted yet

>>3697421
All you've done is post the dictionary definition of the word emulation, which without context is meaningless.
>1:1
Pic related, you're welcome :-*

>>3697431
Sweet hardware emulator.

>>3697437
It's called a hardware clone, intentionally using the wrong terms to be contrarian just makes you sound like you don't know what you're talking about.

>>3689610
Is the twin really that great for playing famicom shit? I haven't really found any good videos comparing the video quality, and I was under the impression that the regular famicom has cables for composite video if you don't want RF.

>>3697620
The original Famicom is RF only. Only the Twin Famicom and Famicom AV have composite.

>>3697835
The Famicom PPU outputs composite. It's converted to RF internally. That circuit can easily be bypassed.

>>3697924
Yes, obviously. Read the post I was replying to. You need more than just a cable.

>>3697620
It has really nice composite output and unique audio quality. It's the advantages of an AV Famicom with some of the charm of the original Fami. It is heavy, large, and kind of pricey though, considering that the FDS side is almost guaranteed to be in need of repair. A working FDS is kind of pointless anymore with the EDN8, PowerPak, and FDSstick available.