/vr/ - Retro Games

The lack of map is justified, technical constraints I assume.
Drawing maps for old games while playing them is pretty fun though.

gitgud the game is very easy once you know the optimal route

>>3635987
I already beat the game so I don't need to git gud.

Except for the beginning a few times and in the last part of the game with the metroids I never even died in the game. But the few attempts it took me in the metroid part was just tedious as fuck because you need to grind your health back up.

>>3635968
>You literally need to draw a map yourself
Heaven forbid

>>3636005
Back in this day when you had one game for a month this shit greatly enhanced the experience. But nowadays it's just not viable anymore.

>>3635968

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1186/

>>3636010
inb4 Etrian Odyssey fans

>>3636017
here I am

>>3636082
Once again

>>3635968
>You literally need to draw a map yourself to even stand a chance.

And you were supposed to. You literally need to shoot enemies to even stand a chance too what were they thinking lmao

>>3636161
That's just oldschool dev bullshit to artificially lengthen a game. Don't even pretend for a second this is good game design. Finding secret pathways without any hint and shit like this is just to make the game longer. Try to use any other elitist approach, you cock gobbler. Shit like this is just a trick to stretch the coin but a tool like you will find a greater meaning in it. It was like that when video games were still good after all. The old growing pains were all mastercrafted classic after all.

>>3636167
>Finding secret pathways without any hint and shit like this is just to make the game longer.
So? Back then you were stuck with a single game for months or even years if your parents were full shlomo.

>but a tool like you will find a greater meaning in it.
No, but mapping your way throught the game isn't the chore you're making it out to be. It's actually fun and the layout isn't even that convoluted for an automap to be necessary.

I can give you the part about the grinding.

>>3635968
I agree that a lot of these are serious flaws. I would add to this that the bosses were far too easy. Broken, even. Hell, I would never want to replay Metroid 1 or 2, crayon maps or no. There's really not a lot to the game other than the concept.

However, I imagine an in-game map was just something the devs couldn't figure out how to include, rather than a bad idea.

>>3636167
There was a decent hint for finding Ridley's lair in the instruction booklet, if you'd accept that. The Varia suit... not so much.

>>3635968
This is a perfect example of a game that has not aged well.

>>3636014
Just play the FDS version, It has native saving and it has better audio.

I never make it in b4 git gud

>>3635979
dude zelda 1 had a map, metroid has zero excuses for not having a world map.

>>3636017
Would EO even count, since mapmaking is basically easy mode for most the game?

>kids complaining about a game not holding their hands
Just stay on /v/ please.

I WANT /v/ TO LEAVE

>>3636901
>>3636895
I can understand the game not having a map at the time. But how can you justify dying and needing to refill your entire lifebar? Not to mention the flying enemies going through the doors with you and hitting you.

Zero Mission is the superior game

>>3635968
>Who thought it was a good idea that you need to grind all your life back up trough tedious methods after you die?
This is by far the biggest design flaw in the Metroid games to me. If anything, the respawning enemies that exist PURELY as HP refills should be straight-up replaced with HP/Missile refillers.

>>3636017
Standing by, ser.

If they didn't make you grind then you would just tank the game to beat it.

>tanks Kraid
>tanks Ridley
>tanks the Metroids
>Sup /v/ I JUST BEAT METROID! Anonymous 11/25/16(Fri)17:07:40 No.358737610

Having to work for it, makes you have to contemplate your strategy and make the effort count.

>>3637103
This

Hand holding isn't fun. The only reason you are complaining is because you have more modern games with luxury features

You sound like a pussy.

>>3636832
In-game it was just a dot on a rectangle. That showed you how big the world was but didn't show you how to get anywhere.

>>3637045
Zero Mission ruined everything that was good about Metroid.

Not starting with full life is inconvenient but you can just go get an energy tank to quickly fill it up. As for enemies going through doors with you, try not letting them go through doors with you.

>>3635979
>Metroid - 128k PRG / 0k CHR - MMC1

They could've fit in a map if they wanted. I'm sure the idea occurred to them. It was probably an intentional decision not to.

>>3635968
>>3635979
Metroid II was my first Metroid and honestly I was fine without a map. I tend to get my bearings by just wandering around and mentally chronicling where I need to go. Kind of how I get by in real life.

>>3637368
ZM and Metroid 1 are both great games but they have fuck all to do with one another other than covering the same plot

>>3637378
Metroid 2 is my favorite

If you didn't have to completely grind your shit back up every time you died, the game would have 0 tension whatsoever. You'd just be bum-rushing your way back to wherever you died as fast as possible, without any incentive to play better.

>>3637103
>strategy

you just freeze the boss's projectiles and spam missiles while they stare at you. unless you want to intentionally gimp yourself and go anywhere without the ice beam.

this game wasn't meant to be hard.

>Complaining about having to draw your own map

FUCK YOU GODDAMN

That shit's IMMERSIVE and I miss it.

>>3635979
Plenty of NES games have maps, mostly RPGs

>>3635968
>You literally need to draw a map yourself to even stand a chance
How old are you?

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1186/

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1974/

I think you should even be able to combine both hacks.

>>3635968
Is Metroid the most NES Hard game?

Or are Medusa Heads worse?

>>3638329

CVIII is much harder but I'm not sure even that is the "Hardest"

>>3635993
I watched that episode of James and mike mondays too

>>3638329
My very first playthrough was about 3 hours. No guides. No boss deaths.

I'm typically REALLY bad at NES games, so I wouldn't call it the hardest. Not by a long shot.

>>3636832
At least Zelda came with couple a maps in the instructions.

>>3635979
> drawing maps
Zelda's instructions suggest this for the dungeons.

I got a cousin's kid an NES and Zelda for Christmas. I realized I should print out a copy of the manual and that fold out map for them. Just did it on regular printer paper, six pages per page, but it should help.

>>3637378
tfw you need Google maps to find your way around these days irl

If you leave one energy tank alone until the end of the game, you can always go grab it before taking on the end game, and then if you die you can load up that password and always grab it again.

My only problem with Metroid's map is having to bomb almost every wall to see if there's a secret passage. Otherwise, I think it's great that you feel lost all the time, and you can always draw a map.

>>3635968
All things they probably thought about and would've fixed if they had more time or were more experienced programmers.

>>3636801
Just play zero mission.

>>3642389
This. Original Metroid isn't fun.

You get way more satisfaction from "the wall looks funny, maybe I can bomb it" over "oh look there's a secret here because I literally bombed every wall".

Honesty if a game rewards you for speed-running it's basically the developers admitting "we made a short game that lacks real content"

>>3635968
>You literally need to draw a map yourself
That's many if not most did back in the day. Drawing your own maps was a part of the experience of many games.

>>3637640
>Metroid 2 is my favorite
How about AM2R? It also "ruined evrthng gud bout metriod 2 hurr"?

>>3635968
nes games in general suck ass

>>3642832
Have they fixed the metroid counter? That really was unforgiveable.

>>3636798
Not OP but I wouldn't say aged poorly,I can still play Metroid today without getting bored of it. The Problem with Metroid stems from bad design decisions. If the game came with a map like Zelda, started players off with 99% health, had a save system like Zelda, didn't have enemies hitting you as went through doorways, and didn't have repeat rooms then arguably it would still be enjoyable to even newcomers today.

I don't think playing with 30 energy is that bad. Damage is Metroid 1 is very low, it's not like the later games where you can have like 4 tanks chopped off of you from one hit.

The highest damage hit you can take is exactly 30 damage, and that's in an area where enemies commonly drop 30-energy pickups.

>>3635968
>Grinding health back up
>Not leaving an e-tank near the tourian entrance.
There's more e-tanks in the game than you can have at max. E-tanks fill you up.

>>3635968
Who thought it was a good idea that you need to thrust in and out multiple times before ejecting your semen? Waste of energy, IMO.

>>3642839
say that to my face fucker see what you get

>>3644581
>you need to thrust
Not necessarily

>>3644614
Who is he talking to...?

>>3644617
That's a taking lolibutt

>>3644618
*talking
Fug

>>3635968
Oldfag here. I played Metroid and drew my own map. The manual includes a rough overview of the areas and tells you that if you want more details you're going to have to map it yourself. It took me a lot longer to finish Metroid when I was a kid than it would now with a walkthrough or map from the internet. Back then we needed our games to last a while because our parents didn't buy us games very often and there wasn't a constant deluge of content like there is these days.

Addressing the people complaining about how random some of the places you need to bomb or search and how that was only done to extend playtimes. Yeah. Maybe. I think, in some sense, it would make sense in the game universe that Samus would have to search for random openings and bomb her way into some locations via trial-and-error. I think this plays into the whole feeling of isolation and helps connect Samus and the player. The fact that there were so many random walls you could bomb (even if half of them didn't lead anywhere) was a major motivator in keeping me playing the game when I got stuck. After you know what the map really looks like, as we all do now, it certainly would feel pretty useless to randomly bomb walls searching for secrets. But you have to remember that there was no internet back in 1987 and the only way to compare notes was to play the game with your friend and share your maps trying to unlock the secrets together. I always thought this was a fun feature which added mystery.

It definitely feels like an oversight that the beams aren't additive or at least that you can't select from the ones you collected. Having to backtrack for the Ice Beam because you collected Wave Beam is stupid. MegaMan did this better, though it did come later and therefore learned from Metroid's mistake here.

Grinding for life after a death is probably another oversight. This one is equally annoying, though, and should have gotten caught (at least) before the game was released in the west.

>>3638329
the game part of metroid is in exploration, and that's where it's hard. CVIII is hard for its combat, something that in Metroid really isn't very hard at all, but then the exploration in CVIII is non-existent.

So they're not directly comparable really, different challenge styles. Even so, I'd say Metroid is far from the hardest game on the console, given there are much tougher exploration games on the system.

>>3636167
How old are you? You clearly don't remember what gaming was like back in the NES days. A game like this was an adventure, and making your own map, stumbling upon secrets and bosses, and sharing these revelations with your friends was what the game was all about. There had never been a game like this, so nobody expected a map, and nobody was upset by the lack of one. It was all part of the experience.

>>3636017
>>3636082
>>3636878
>>3637052
I LIVE FOR THE SWARM

>>3644453
Didn't you make your own thread to complain about Metroid in

>>3635968
>he died
>all that other tard shit
Spotted the underage who can't git gud.
There was a basic map in the manual and if you had half a brain you could remember how to get around. Maybe when you're old enough to drive your navigational skills will improve.

>>3642846
In AM2R you can set it to display the number of metroids remaining in the world, or the number needed to trigger the next quake.

>>3637378
Metroid 2 was a pain, every area looked the same due to the lack of color, the receding water made me forget if I had been in a given or not, and the worst part was trying to draw a map and thinking I had done it wrong somewhere and then looking up a map on the internet years later and realizing some areas overlap and the whole thing doesn't connect seamlessly.

>>3647472
>the receding water made me forget if I had been in a given or not
If I had been in a given room/area before or not.