/vr/ - Retro Games

>>3613996
You wanting to be different.

>>3614010
Where's the Japanese graph?

>>3614026

>>3614010
Damn, can pinpoint exactly when SF2 hit.

>>3613996
Capcom didn't realize people just wanted more of the same.

>>3613996
>>3614108
but its the best street fighter game

>>3614120
Nah, that would be SF2T.

>>3614156
Explain why so I can explain why you're wrong.

>>3614272
No broken parry system, much more balanced cast, superior soundtrack and character designs, etc.

Shit character designs, released when 3D was the novelty.

>>3613996
A wrong bet on the board and near bankruptcy for one. Decline in western arcade business for two.

and people like >>3614156 who think randomness in a fighting game is ever acceptable.

>>3614296
how successful was Street Fighter Ex. plus Alpha?

>>3613996
Boring ass character designs, 86'd most of the original cast, nobody gave a shit about sprites had fallen out of style

>>3613996
People were too busy playing the Marvel vs. Capcom games instead.

>>3614317
Pretty successful, I believe, as we got 3 EX games and some revisions of the first two titles.

>>3613996
>4 totally new characters
>Q 12
"What characters are these"

Its the best street fighter period. The new cast of characters is the only thing that can make you look away from the game

>>3615889
>Its the best street fighter period.
yeah, nah, ur a cunt m8

>>3613996
Nothing. It's a great and well respected entry in the Street Fighter series.

Amazing game with too many shit characters.

>>3616920
I like 3's creative if weird cast more than 2's generic stereotypes: the fighter.

>>3616912
Elenefag pls go, we're tired of seeing you swoon over that ugly nigger.

>>3617351
What makes you think I care what your opinion of her is?

>>3617372
GOD DAMMIT.

Not the static face one...

>>3617351
>ugly nigger.
Shit taste, son.
Elena's the most fuckable 3 together with Muhkoto.

>>3617372
MUH 7 BILLIONS FRAMES OF ANIMATION, GOYIN!

>>3617393
Alpha 3 has far superior girls than SFIII.

>>3617389
>>3617398
I only have three gifs of her saved. They get recycled a lot.

>>3617401
>Karen
>Rose
>Sakura
>Two Cammy clones
>Better than Muhkoto, Elena or Ibuki

If you were talking about the PSP rerelease you might have a point but hell no.

>>3617412
>Muhkoto
Generic tomboy in a gi, not good.

>Elena
Nigger that should put some clothes on.

>Ibuki
Too weeaboo, albeit the best of the 3.

The problem was not having more of the classic characters. People missed that a lot. They even missed Chun-Li in the first 2 versions, fucking Chun-Li.
Gill's resurrection is/was bullshit. that would drive any normal player insane

>>3617427
rainbow mika is literally the only decent female introduced in the Alpha series

>Rose
Looks cool, shitty moveset

>Karin
Nobody likes her except queers who think she's "fierce"

>Sakura
If Dan didn't exist, she'd be the franchise's joke character, except not as funny. Also,
>playing as a literal 98 lb Japanese schoolgirl

>Juli and Juni
Capcom didn't even try with these two, and it shows

>>3613996

Everything. This game was so bad it killed Street Fighter for almost a decade.

>>3613996
Nothing. you fucking casual.

>>3613996
>chun-li with signature thick thighs
>makoto
>elena
I see no problem.

balance aside (not that it matters to 99% of players except when using that FUCKING BITCH CHUN-LI), it's a fantastic game

>>3617495
Do not talk shit or assume things about Karin ever again.

>>3615889
correct. the new characters are really stupid though

>>3618159
>implying doesn't do stupid bullshit after ONE successful read
>implying yun isn't worse

>>3618198
I meant to include makoto on the first line, whoops.

>>3613996
this is one of the most popular games on fightcade, and fighting game fans all agree that this is the best street fighter game

The CD version of CPS3 was a fucking disaster. SF3 New Generation sold like ass, while games like SFA and the VS. games did better. SF3 was made by Capcom B squad. People only dick ride it because of full parry.

>>3618203
applies to most characters. getting to that point is fantastic fun though.

Which SF has the most tournament viable characters?

Nothing. It's easily one of the best Street Fighter games.

>>3618204
I second this. I dont even like the game but i can tell from the mechanics that its a deep fighter with an unhindered skill ceiling.

>>3618159
God I love makoto. Best

>>3617495
>If Dan didn't exist, she'd be the franchise's joke character, except not as funny.

But he does and she's not.

>>3613996
Yun is too OP.

>>3618380

USF4

>>3618231
Alpha and Vs came out long before SF3 did, let alone 3S

SF3 did poorly because Arcades were on the decline and people had moved on to 3D fighters. It did slightly better in Japan but was relegated to niche status behind the success of VF and Tekken

>>3617412
>>3617495
>Not liking Karin, the best SF girl
>Not liking Sakura, another one of the best
>Not liking school girls period

Plebs

>>3621675
Not really. People didn't move on to fighters. The only people that played fighters beyond getting the game the first week it came out and moving on were people that played in arcades. Also you have to remember that until around SFA3, we in the west did not have good ports of 2D games. And the amount of people that played 3D games at a high level were few and far between.

>>3618380
Other than SF2X/ST banning of akuma, there are not that many flat out banned characters. Only KOF and some other games have soft bans on characters. Which is more of a "you shouldn't play O-Sagat in a casual match at an arcade because it is sort of rude."

>>3622054
I think you're misreading what anon wrote about 3D fighters as meaning console fighters. It's the arcade players who moved on to 3D fighters. VF, Tekken, Soul Calibur definitely did draw a lot of players away from 2D fighters. In my group of friends, one of them went full into Tekken and played a lot less SF with the rest of us by the time SF3 came out.

>until around SFA3, we in the west did not have good ports of 2D games
That never stopped anyone from playing 2D fighters at home. Every SNES and Genesis release of SF2 did extremely well.

>And the amount of people that played 3D games at a high level were few and far between.
Are you seriously trying to say this about America c.1997-1999?

>>3614295
>much more balanced cast
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
OH GOD MY SIDES
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>3622814
More of the ST cast is viable than 3S, which is dominated by 3 characters at the top by a wide margin.

SF games has always been one trick ponies, with terrible slow gameplay. KOF is much better. Suck it up Crapcom fags.

>>3613996
>what went wrong
>Third strike
OP I think you meant to ask what went right and the answer is everything.

>>3617495
>playing as a 98lb Japanese schoolgirl.
>implying it isnt all muscle.
>implying she isnt best girl.

>>3622895
This.

>>3622895
>More of the ST cast is viable than 3S
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Oh god, my sides!

>>3623998
Explain how he's wrong then. Gonna try and tell us 3S doesn't have serious balance issues and worthless characters?

>>3624005
I honestly don't know much about ST but the only worthless characters in 3S are 12, Q, Huggo, and Shawn. A few other characters might have a struggle but aren't worthless. There's at least one really good Necro player who makes the character work at the top level.

>>3613996
They ignored casual playstation fucks like you and went straight for the hardcore crowd

>>3624091
And we see how well that paid off
Looks like you "hardcore" people should have put more money in their pockets or else the company still wouldn't be in shambles

>>3624126
Dude i bought the cps3 board,the dc port and the xbox game that had online play way before the sf4 boom. Played this on dozens of tournaments. I supported 3s plenty, did you?

>>3624091
>*rattles tits* CASUAL CASUAL CASUAL CASUAL *rattles tits* CASUAL CASUAL CASUAL *rattles tits*
So do you have anything worth contributing or are you going to just start fights like a faggot?

>>3624062
>I honestly don't know much about ST
Tell us something we didn't know. There aren't 4 shitters like that in the game.

HF and Alpha 2 are the only Street Fighters worth playing.

>>3624312
0/10

>>3624312

Alpha 2 is kusoge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5CscridX_g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeQzR5Y3hJA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BG58tywljI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMPKYFkkXqs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5LFwW_R9UA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ig-E8sBK18

>>3624005
Explain how he's not wrong then. Gonna try and tell us ST doesn't have serious balance issues and worthless characters?

>>3624391
it doesn't, people said t hawk was worthless until OOPS he's actually top 3 in the game you just have to be good, where as Q is dogshit and has been since 99

>3Shitters think 2 OP characters and 4 UP characters is good balance

mein seiten

>>3624391
>Gonna try and tell us ST doesn't have serious balance issues and worthless characters?

That is correct. Nowhere near the level of 3S. Try not talking out your ass next time with HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA unless you actually know the game you're trying to bash.

>>3624403
>That is correct. Nowhere near the level of 3S
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OH GOD MY FUCKING SIDES HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>3624395
MEANWHILE IN REALITY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnWSJEdcF_s

>>3624447
Wow, thats one shitty Ken.

>>3624463
Yeah man im sure you could beat Ricky easy ;^)

>>3624158
I could contribute my + 7 frames penis in your secret aids hole brah

Great /v/ thread.

>>3618204
>fighting game fans all agree that this is the best street fighter game

LOL no that is not how it works.

>>3618380

Percentage wise, ST has most of the roster being tournament viable except for Cammy, and even then there are people that play her. But you have to learn to counterpick because the fact is there are matchups that are just plain unwinnable unless your opponent fucks up massively. There's only a few people that only play one character vs everyone. Obviously I'm not counting Akuma.

USF4 has a few truly awful characters like Deejay, Honda, Dan, etc, but they're not quite as awful as Cammy was in ST. I don't know if you would call them tournament viable or not.

You have to remember that a lot of this depends on what country you are talking about. 3S in Japan had most of the roster present in tournaments (though tiers obviously made some characters win). In the US 90% of players were Yun, Chun, Makoto, and Ken, with most of the 10% being Ryu and Dudley.

>>3624639
Great bitchpost.

>>3624387
>Posting vanilla Alpha 2.

>>3616929
What's stereotypical about T Hawk? Or any other SFII characters.

fighting game fans are the worst

>>3624895

They're pretty stereotypical. Not harmful ones, but, for instance, T.Hawk being some Native who has a pretty stereotypical "Chief Standing Bear who communes with animals and spirits" vibe going on. It's one of those zero research preconceptions about other people that only makes sense to you if your only interaction with said people is through cartoons.

Like, compare Gouken to Dhalsim. Gouken has aspects of Buddhism going on with him. Japan understands this and puts it in the game, assuming everyone will understand and be able to spot it. But with Dhalsim? He's not Japanese, so his religious overtones are literally "I'm weird lol" and "I'm here to get water for my tribe".

It doesn't even need to be accurate or some shit, just don't make it so zero effort.

>>3623998
>>3624062
>>3624391
Jesus fuck /vr/ this is bad even for you

>>3624823
That's the one people play. No one players Gold or Zero2Alpha or whatever.

2I had better Stages and music

>>3624895
Are you joking or just fucking retarded?

>>3614010
Why did things bottom out so badly in 1991? (relative to the rest of the era)

>>3626350

Well, the graph also shows that console gaming had a huge spike at the same time...

Everybody probably bought an SNES and started playing at home.

>>3613996
They made one of the best and most technical 2D fighters ever with new characters and an original story. But more people wanted to play the button mashing nostalgia fest that was MvC.

Super Turbo is unbalanced in a lot of ways, the biggest of which was the New/Old character system, which inherently creates a binary where one version of the character is objectively better. For some reason, Capcom can't get enough of offering players choices in FTG games, even though time after time it's been proven to cause problems.

>>3626703
0/10

>>3624387

I don't think you know what kusoge means

>>3626703

That's not true. There are a few versions that are objectively better, like O.Sagat, but that's not universal.

O.Ryu has better special moves, but regular Ryu can tech throws, has command normals, and has a super. Most people consider Ryu better, but Damdai is one of the best players in the world and plays O.Ryu because of O.Ryu's superior fireball.

Lack of old characters and Tekken 3

>>3626823
Wasn't it just O.Sagat and O.THawk that were universally agreed to be straight up better than their counterparts? Even others like Ken had something to offer from both.

>>3624447
Kuroda is good with everyone, and only picks Q just to troll people and fuck around.
Retards like you think this makes Q good for some reason. He's done the same shit with Sean and Twelve.

>>3627049

There's some old characters that are awful.

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/O._Cammy_(ST)
>N.Cammy is clearly superior, no doubt in that. And she is bottom ranked in the tier list so you can imagine how much you will suffer if you opt to play her Old version...

>>3627049
No, most characters will want to use the New versions since teching throws and a super outweighs most of the benefits offered by their Old counterparts.

>>3624647
and once the japanese started to come over to america you didn't see the ryu or dudley's make it to finals.

>>3627039
everyone in socal was playing marvel or tekken tag while 3s was ignored, the older hardcore people that liked sf stuck to st

and why would you wanna play against braindead 3s chun

>>3613996
>What went wrong?
It made fighting games unplayable for 95% of people and they became exclusively for super autistic frame counting weirdos and tournament losers.

What went so right?

>>3628084

Gotta love projecting retards. 3S is the only SF where the players don't know frames and casual 3S play is identical to any other casual level SF play. They don't fucking know how the game works, they're just pushing buttons and jumping, same as always.

>>3628104
It's a good bet he's not even projecting and just plain trolling. We have at least a couple of people who come into these threads just to try and stir up drama because they hate fighters or the fans. Like >>3623998 >>3624895 >>3618139 >>3626703 >>3628084 etc. They just say whatever random inflammatory thing pops in their head and hope it causes a shitstorm.

meta posting is just as bad as trolling because it glorifies and draws attention to the trolling, and only generates even more discussion about it

...see what i mean

>>3629134
Nothing is as bad as intentional trolling.

>>3628087
> Making a game in 1999 on Neo Geo
> "went right"
Lel

>>3629143
To be fair, it's a very popular game. It was very good at bringing over players from other games like SF and Vs who find KoF intimidating.

>>3613996
1) It added Chun Li
2) It added red parrying
3) All non-throw super arts from the previous games got frames added to them for no apparent reason

>>3613996
>What went wrong?
nothing

they made art and art usually stands the test of time.

>>3630419
Not to bash Nishimura, but Ikeno's style was a much better fit for the series.

>>3616929
But I like stereotypes. Easy and fast to approach.

My favorite character is better than your favorite character.

>>3630924
Your favorite character is better than my favorite character but I can still kick your ass with my favorite character because that's how much you suck.

>>3630936

:(

>>3630937
Cheer up and git gud! I don't like fighting bad players any more than you like being a bad player!

>>3630473
Neither of them were involved with the actual spritework, though.

>>3631112
They influenced it though.

>>3624905
This.

>>3631232
Why?

>>3629114
>Anyone who proves me wrong is "trolling"

>>3631472
Who there was proving him wrong?

>>3631112
> They made art
> I was talking about the sprites actually

If you wanted to talk about the sprites, talk about the sprites.

Threads like this is why I play single-player.

>>3634023
We know.

>>3634334
I still dream that someday someone will figure out a way to make Q not suck.

>>3624403
ST was extremely raw and matchup dependent. The low tiers in 3s (at least Hugo and Q) are far more viable than Blanka or Cammy. Please stop pretending like you know anything about ST

>>3636480
lol

>>3636053
Q was a gimmick character doomed from the start. You cannot have a Balrog-style character in a game with parries.

>>3613996
(You) went wrong

People who think 3S is the best fighting game ever made are also people who:

>are invested in the fgc
>yet suck at fighting games
>and pick low tier as an excuse

>bonus fourth greentext: never fucking played it

It's really weird. I don't know why people are like this, but there you go.

Put simply, there's a reason everyone stopped playing it when SF4 came out. Not even the re-release with the much-vaunted GGPO system could breathe life back into 3S, even with the FGC at peak popularity and the internet/youtubers providing it worldwide appeal.

If you're going to be a tryhard about your taste in fighting games, you might as well go a little more obscure than 3S, that's all I'm saying.

>>3636053
I had a roommate in college who took on that challenge. Apparently the trick is to taunt three or four times to double his defence, then do some combo that starts with a grab and ends with his exploding crotch.

I don't know how viable it really was as I admit I sick at fighters in general.

>>3637221

It's not viable, not against players who are in your own league in skill, or higher.

>>3637197
>if everyone in the world isn't playing it the game is dead
kys
the re-release still gets matches online

i do agree it's not the best in the world, seeing Sean get basically gutted from 2nd Impact hurts

>>3637197
But people still play 3S regularly, you are retarded.

I dont think you know much about fighting games or the FGC.

>>3637197
In my experience most people who liked SF3 (and it's iterations) were fighting game fans who weren't fans of Street Fighter 2 (and it's iterations). Me and my circle are mainly KoF players, but 3S is the one Street Fighter we would occasionally play as a refresher. In more recent years that was taken over by MotW, but it's always been my impression that 3S just attracted a different crowd from ST and why 4 was so much more popular.

>>3638594
>Capcom and SNK fighters

loved SFII
liked FF/AOF/KOF somewhat
liked SS a lot
loved Alpha (my tournament days)
liked SF3 a lot
liked MOTW a lot
loved CVS
liked SVC somewhat
...
like SF4/SF5 somewhat

fwiw

>>3639549
I always liked Mortal Kombat a lot more than Street Fighter 2, then I liked Mortal Kombat 2 much, much more. Even though I could tell even back then that Street Fighter was a better game, I thought the roster of characters was super lame and never liked the overall look of it. Mortal Kombat on the other hand had tons of crazy characters and was lots of fun in it's own right so I kept playing.

Then MK3 was a huge let down and just didn't feel the same plus I was in college at that point and not playing as much.

It wasn't until the Dreamcast King of Fighters '98 and meeting new people that I got back into fighters and been into them since. KoF combines the zaniness of MK with awesome gameplay, team battle and huge rosters.

I liked SF3 more than the others, but mostly for the character designs and animations. I never put time into really learning it. Same with Last Blade 1 and 2 and Mark of the Wolves. They're pretty and fun for a bit but they always feel lacking compared to KoF.

I played SFIV for a while after KoF XII turned out to be a steaming turd and then got back into MK with 9 which was silly and broken but old fun. Then developed a real soft spot for Injustice which I played the heck out of and still go back to sometimes. But mostly it's older KoF when I play now.

>>3628087
It's just a really solidly competent game that looks gorgeous for the hardware it's running on. That said, it still has balance issues but the chances that you'll ever actually play people on a competitive level in 2016 (let alone any other year in the last ~17) are so small that it doesn't matter.

Jesus fuck though my friends and I basically played this game every day nonstop from 2001 until some time in 2008. It's the reason I ever tried to give a fuck about fighters in the first place. Garou 2 SNK pls just call up ASW and have them teach you their UE3/4 wizardry.

>>3642106
I'm curious, what kept you interested in MotW for so many years? Did you try any of the King of Fighters in that time? It's slick looking and plays well, but I always found it a little basic compared to SNK's more robust fighters.

>>3642570
It's the ultimate volume of Fatal Fury (Garou Densetsu). Of course it's basic compared to KOF in the same way SF is more "basic" than CVS, but that doesn't make it any less of a game/series. One might in fact consider it more refined with fewer distractions from the core gameplay because of it.

>>3644720
That's fair, and it is a really solidly made game there's no question there. I just like fighters with tons of characters and roster in MotW always felt a little lacking to me. But by the same token I also don't get how there are people happy still playing ST after all these years either so it's all good. The more people enjoying fighters the better imo.

>with fewer distractions from the core gameplay because of it.

What did you mean by this though? That's the only part I didn't get, which distractions?

>>3644950
Just single character instead of teams/support characters, really. Not knocking KOF or CVS for it, as I like both.

>>3644965
Ahh okay, that's cool.

>>3644975
It's my dream to someday play a massive KoF compilation game with every character in the series and able to select which year for each, so being able to have a team of '97 Terry, '98 Joe and 02 Andy for example. It would almost certainly have to be a fan hack, but if pulled off would be my dream game.

>>3624062
>Q and Hugo
sorry but they aren't useless.
t. hugo and q main

>popularity and sales mean a game is good

fuck off faggots

>>3645129
Popularity is a direct metric of how many people enjoyed something. The purpose of a game is to be enjoyed.

>>3644950
People still play ST because it's available on many platforms, plays fast, and is relatively simple mechanics and controls-wise.

>>3613996
Stupid characters.

>>3624395
>T.hawk top 3

ahahahahahahaha

O.hawk is upper mid tier AT BEST regular hawk is low tier

ST is better balanced than 3s if you count only the best versions of characters, But much of the Old characters are total dogshit. It's also a more frustrating game as characters, especially high tiers like O.sagat and vega are even more "cheap" than the high tiers in 3s.

the understanding of tiers in both games is wrong anyway. for some reason there is a meme going around where ST in magical nippon has cammy players winning all the time despite being low tier and in 3s only chun yun and ken are ever played and chun always wins.

>>3624062
>shawn

this guy totally knows what he's talking about

>>3645693
>ST is better balanced than 3s if you count only the best versions of characters, But much of the Old characters are total dogshit.

You mean like 3S compared to 3 and SI?

>>3613996
>FGC niggers still in my /vr/

You all need to go back.

>>3647506
Go back to your baby game, poltard.

>>3647489
No, that's retarded, you can't play as the NG and SI versions of characters in 3s (and ST new challengers versions are not the same as they are in super)

>>3647578
No one picks the bad versions anyways though

>>3645693
>ahahahahahahaha
Still back-peddling eh? lol

>>3647582
Because they are bad, which means the game is poorly balenced in this repect when you take them into account. Some of the more powerful O versions like sagat also hurts balence, new sagat isn't bad, and the game would be more balenced if people picked him, but people play the best version of the character.

You need a mix of old and new for optimal balence on ST (which isn't even very balneced) if you play only new or only old characters the game balence is worth than 3s, and it's worse if you take all the characters into account, it only creates the illusion of being more balenced because no one picks the terrible characters that are worse than tweleve or sean because there are alternative versions of them.

>>3647710
not the first guy you replied t, just laughing at your retardation

>>3647738
Yeah I wasn't the guy talking about T Hawk either. It's just funny this guy is still at it. >>3623998

>>3636053
Here's the secret
>Lots of taunts (know when theyre free)
>Being good at parrying and parry punishes
>Charge partition combos
>Knowing those few moments where your normals don't suck
>Taunts
Almost everything about Q is plagued with problems and believe me by no means is he a "good character" but his health and damage are anything but problems. Q may barely hit but when he does it hurts. Japanese Q players are scary.

>>3647765
Q doesn't benefit much from partitioning, with three taunts if you can get them off he is uppermid/high tier, because he has so much HP he can guess parry, and gets big damage off a parry.

should mention his kara throw and that he can't be thrown during his crouch animation, allowing you to down parry and avoid throws to get a big punish by tapping down while standing.

>>3613996
Alpha 2 and Alpha 3 had more characters (and more familiar characters) and was on a cheaper board and had a PS1 port. There's your answer.

like, why would operators buy an expensive (and then rumored to be flaky) CPS3 board when you could buy Alpha 3 (or hell, any of the other CPS2 games)

>>3614317
the EX series, although semi-forgotten, sold boatloads