/vr/ - Retro Games

pretty much.

>>3592579
Quake is better.

>>3592579
Controls aren't perfect. Gameplay isn't perfect.
It's still great. But it's not perfect.

>>3592579
The music is pretty shit though. Also the levels are too linear.

Its also incredibly easy unless you play on nightmare which is incredibly stupid.

>>3592605
>The music is pretty shit though.

It's easily fixed: http://www.moddb.com/games/doom/addons/psx-soundtrack-replacement-high-quality

>Is it the ultimate video game?
<--- Yes

>>3592579
Ultimate? Maybe. I have spent more time playing Doom over the last 20 years than any game that isn't an MMO.

>>3592621
If we're talking mods, you can replace everything in the game and make it something different entirely.

I'm talking about the original.

> In 20 years, someone is going to call Crysis the ultimate video game that pushed boundaries and led other games.

>>3592579
I could play this game every damn day. in fact I'm sure there's been a few years where I've at least fired it up once a day for a few minutes.

Yeah i know its tinted by nostalgia and being just the right age when it came out. I don't care.

>>3592837
>perfectly honed gameplay
>an insane number of mods and custom levels
>open source
>somewhat a e s t h e t i c
>crysis

>>3592579
Quake is better.

>>3592849
>perfectly honed gameplay
>open source
>an insane number of mods and custom levels
Crysis, then? Like, CryEngine has been open source ever since Far Cry.

>>3592579
I think it's a very good game, hell, the aesthetic and atmosphere is one of the best parts.

>>3592583
Not as many monsters, not as good music, largely rushed and unfinished.
I do very much like it, but it was never my favorite.

>>3592603
Controls are pretty good, you can strafe and use the mouse to turn (contrary to popular belief this was not something added in sourceports). Later games had better controls, but it worked pretty well regardless.

I think what makes Doom so strong is that the fundaments of the game are all very sound, thus it's a good basis for custom levelpacks and mods.

>>3592605
The music is good and the levels aren't linear enough to be constricting.
It isn't as open as Duke Nukem 3D though.

>>3592621
The PSX soundtrack is super boring though.

>>3592628
Goldeneye is shit.

>>3593020
Nah.

>>3593020
It's not shit, it enabled console FPS. You either be a patrician faggot and fanboy a desired medium, or you acknowledge when a game is good.

>>3593270
goldeneye was only really good when you were 12

most console shooters were trash until the advent & implementation of dual analog sticks

>>3593020
>Goldeneye 007 SUCKS WAAAAAAAAAAH

Where does this shit comes from?, c'mon, it's not a bad game.

>>3593420
It's some kind of mustard tribal thing. If a game doesn't have [feature that's only in PC] then according to them, it's shit.

Actual gameplay related shit like good level or mission design never enters the equation of course since that isn't unique to PC games.

>>3593420
It isnt a bad game, but is overrated.

It was an awesome console shooter, but nothing special compared to PC shooters.

Even when it came out it was behind games like Quake, Duke Nukem 3d, Strife, and dozens of PC games. When Half life came out less than a year later it was decades ahead of goldeneye.

I loved Goldeneye and it was a fun game, but lets be honest about it, it is gets undo praise just because it is the first FPS console fags played. PC master race enjoyed superior games years earlier.

>>3593441
>Even when it came out it was behind games like Quake, Duke Nukem 3d, Strife, and dozens of PC games

Those games played nothing like Goldeneye, and with the exception of Strife, were more straightforward shooters.

Goldeneye brought a lot to the table. For one, it was the first 3D shooter that wasn't a Doom clone. Hell, it was the first FPS that managed to completely shake off Doom-like game elements without also having RPG or puzzle pretensions - it was a pure shooter unlike Strife or System Shock.

So no, saying that PC games were far ahead at the time, or that "master race enjoyed superior games years earlier" is pure historical revisionism. Goldeneye was widely recognized at the time, even by PC gamers, to be a milestone FPS title.

>When Half life came out less than a year later

Half-Life was released 1 year and 3 months after Goldeneye.

>>3593481
No it wasnt the first.

It was nothing special. It is as much, or as little, of a doom clone as the rest of the FPS at the time.

It was a milestone, it was the first time a FPS was playable on consoles. As a PC master race gamer I acknowledge this. It made perfect use of analog stick and z button in back, and games like Halo were built off the way it controlled. It is a major milestone, a console FPS that wasnt pure garbage. Not only was it a FPS that could be played on a console, it was a good FPS, even for PC gamers. Still it was nothing special.

Only thing original or unique about it was auto aim, which is needed for console FPS.

>>3593490
>it was the first time a FPS was playable on consoles

Alright now I know you're an idiot or trolling. There's little point explaining why the rest of your post is wrong.

>>3592583
I like quake much better too. doom is my second favorite single player fps.

>>3593492
There is no point because you cant.

It is like someone saying, "2+2=5, and anyone who says otherwise is a troll and wrong. I am not going to bother to explain this I am just right."

You are just admitting you are wrong and cant explain, but want to be stubborn.

FPS games as a genre are just dumbed down UU and System Shock clones. Prove me wrong.

>>3592621
My NIGGER. The PS1 version of doom has fucking amazing soundtrack and weapon sounds. Way better than the PC version sounds.

>>3592946
>(contrary to popular belief this was not something added in sourceports)
How did this rumour become so widely believed when DOOM's original instructions recommends using the mouse in this fashion?

>>3592579
>>perfect controls

If this were true, no one would be using freelook.

>>3593542
I think its because of the confusion surrounding mouselook and freelook. Some people use the term mouselook to refer to freelook, causing the other people who don't to think that source ports added in mouse support, when its actually freelook that they added.

>>3593513
Hovertank 3D and Catacomb 3D both predate Ultima Underworld, so no.

>>3593490
>games like Halo were built off the way it controlled
Not sure I agree. It was much easier to aim on Goldeneye because when you pressed R, the crosshair's position was directly related to your stick's position.

Halo (like most other console FPSs) just made you aim with the standard turning mechanics.

>>3592579
Great game OP, I just love maze like FPS's

But this one here is the ultimate video game.

>>3593715
Fuck this shiat!!
Lair of the blind ones just fucking stole more than 8 hours of my miserable short life.
Sweet Jesus, how can a level be so fucking confusing and big? Only 2 miserable save points and its hard as balls going trough this with my aged n64 controller.

>>3593724

got any more of those maps? im curious to see what hive of the mantids looks like

>>3593715
I thought Turok 2 was massively disappointing. Random number generator enemy deaths, clumsy controls, flimsy feeling weapons, too much wandering.

The first one wasn't great but the way the magazines went on, I wasn't expecting the sequel to be worse...

>>3593608
Halo was a slight update on Goldeneye

>>3593738
Sure dude

>>3593754

n64 version definitely could have had more responsive controls but i dont think your other complaints hold much weight unless you care to elaborate

Doom 1 was better. No vertical aiming.

>>3593420
>>3593426

when you look at it without nostalgia goggles it doesn't age very well compared to other shooters of the time

>>3593823
When you shot enemies it seemed to just roll a dice to determine if the enemy died. Weapons felt puny, probably due to the sound FX being lame.

>>3593441
>>3593490
If you can't recognize GoldenEye's impressive features at the time (compared against any FPS, PC or otherwise), you just don't know much about the history of FPSes or aren't very good at understanding games. It's full of TECHNOLOGY and the only way it's really gimped by consoles is the framerate on original hardware.

>>3593563
>some people use the term mouselook to refer to freelook
No, they use the term "mouselook" correctly. This "freelook" nonsense wasn't even a term until much later.

>>3593876
Dont project. You are the ignorant one here.

Like I said Goldeneye is a very good game. Even if was a PC game for the time it would have been very good, but nothing that special.

Maybe if it was designed for the PC from the beginning and featured true free aim, LAN, mods, and took advantage of the superior memory and storage of the PC to overcome the limitations of the N64 it would have been something special. That point is moot.

A very good game even by PC standards. It is only epic tier though when looking at purely at console perspective. For PC it is just very good tier, not epic/legend/god tier.

>>3593490
>it was the first time a FPS was playable on consoles

>no mention of Tetris
It is flawless to this day.

>>3593948
It deserves at least as much credit as MGS
Probably more since it has multiplayer

>>3593958

> fake 3d shit like doom

you know what he meant

>>3593867

i havent experienced anything like that with the exception of the plasma rifle, which many theorize is bugged and has inconsistent damage. the guns all look and sound great in my opinion. if you haven't played since release try playing it again, you might be pleasantly surprised.

>>3594000
I don't know what he meant but Disruptor is pretty great.

>>3594003

>disruptor
>no analog support
>enemies and player weapons are still sprites
>single-player only

>>3593879
Regardless of which one is correct, the fact of the matter is, the community likes to be a confusing mess where some use both interchangably, and others try to argue they mean different things. And this has caused some to mistakenly think doom didn't support mouse until source ports.

>>3592579
Coming from someone who downloaded the shareware a week after it came out (the download took all night)
Yes. Doom is probably one of those examples of a timeless classic.
You can't really find a flaw unless you go out of your way to find one.
The fact that it has such a strong community and is still highly playable today nearly 25 years after the fact is the answer to your question.

Quake was cool, but had nowhere the impact of doom. For me quake didn't work because it lacked a story. Even though doom's narrative was "light" it still made sense. I don't have to tell you the story of doom, you already know it if your reading this. Short, but to the point and still a narrative
I don't think anyone knows the story of quake, if someone does it's because they looked it up in wikipedia. The lack of a narrative and muddy dark graphics kill it for me.

When ID lost Romero carmack focused more on graphics and tech than any type of plot granted Romero was a fuck but still....

>>3593563
Mouselook = looking anywhere

You're thinking of mouse movement, which is movement + turning, and you could disable the movement portion.

>>3594031
I know that. You missed my point.

>>3594014
>single-player only
I can only assume your gif is a smile of joy, friend.

>>3594014
Is there any way to play Disruptor with a mouse? like would it be the same as a mouse injector for N64 shooters? Tfw no sourceport of disruptor

>>3592628
Get tha fuck outa here.

Aesthetically pleasing. Possessed of an agreeable aesthetic. Not "a e s t h e t i c".

>>3594135
Cast not grammar before memesters.

>>3594000
>moving the goalposts

>>3594181

I'm fine with memesters but I know most kids these days don't use the word "aesthetics" properly unironically. When memes become reality.

>>3593490
>Only thing original or unique about it was auto aim, which is needed for console FPS.

But Doom has auto-aim?????????

>>3593490
>auto aim, which is needed for console FPS
Scrub detected.

>>3594419
So what are you going to do to the monsters above and below you? Talk to them?

>>3592579
>perfect controls

eh, they do the job but are pretty limiting, which often involves sacrificing design choices for the sake of navigation, it's not always bad though because it's a good incentive for secrets

I guess you could call them idiot proof controls

>perfectly honed gameplay

ehhh I mean SS is pretty cool from that risk/reward perspective and the added enemies present a good challenge, balance and are really memorable but are you sure you're not just saying this because you took your time to bond with the game to a point that all design choices look irremediably good?

I don't have anything to say about your personal preferences, but you're approaching this thread objectively, and the doom games are objectively overrated enough to make me doubt your sense of objectivity not being clouded

>an insane number of mods and custom levels

sourceport crap doesn't count, and even then it only takes so much before it gets boring and samey, the limitness of the original engine doesn't do it any favors

>open source

just like a load of other FPS games

>somewhat a e s t h e t i c

literally brown and green, and yes *some* levels are memorable but doom 1 had much more going for it in terms of atmosphere, even as far as geometry is concerned

>>3594448
>>open source
>just like a load of other FPS games

Name one that isn't garbage and not based off ID tech

>>3594002
It definitely happens with the grenade launcher too.

>>3592579
>old school FPS keyboard controls
>perfect
Fuck no. KB+M was a huge improvement over that shit. UT99 is probably the game with perfect controls.

>>3594448
>sourceport crap doesn't count
Why not?

>>3594548
Doom did play with KB+M tho, you can even see it in demo sequences which shipped with the games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzqQP0FjncQ

>>3594520
>Name one that isn't garbage

That's simp...

>and not based off ID tech

W-Well, which ID tech are we talking about?

Duke3D

>>3594562
>W-Well, which ID tech are we talking about?

It doesn't matter

[kek] build engine [/kek]

>>3594538

The grenade launcher just has really accurate hit detection, the nades can literally go through someones legs and not detonate

>no freelook
>no jumping
>no crouching
>no verticality in level design
>garbage enemy AI
>plagiarized music

I beg to differ, OP.

>>3592628
>Not the console version of Powerslave/Exhumed
PC version was a shit Doom clone, but the PS1/Saturn version was doing Metroid Prime gameplay before Metroid Prime.

Goldeneye is overrated. Not bad, but overrated.

>>3592628
>Golden Eye
>perfect controls
>with that awful analog stick and those retarded control schemes
wew lad

>>3594867
>PC version was a shit Doom clone
PC Powerslave is great. Long, tough, adventure-style maps with good variety considering the engine's limits, and usually actual ammo instead of weapon energy is superior to the console versions. Sorry it doesn't have enough backtracking for you.

>>3592579
It worked perfect via using Doom 95 from the Final Doom CD up until two years ago when I got a new PC with WIndows 8.1. Yeah, played it off and on for 20 years.

>>3594861
>>no verticality in level design
It does though.

>>3595525
Doom 95 is a fucking trash port, bro.

At least step up to Boom proper.

>>3595328
>PC Powerslave is great. Long, tough, adventure-style maps with good variety considering the engine's limits,

You mean that thing every 90's shooter was doing? And how is a Metroidvania less "adventure"-like?

>>3595575
It can't have overlapping floors like Quake or even Duke3D.

>>3595631
I said it was great, I didn't say it had unique level structure the likes of which had never been seen before in an FPS game. Dunno what you're trying to do here.

>>3595730
Not conventionally, no (there's some trickery you can do), but sectors have volume, they have height, you can ascend and descend, the last part of Doom 2 Map29 is a climb, when a cacodemon dies it drops to the floor like a sack of potatoes, from whichever height this was, when an arch-vile lights you up, he sends you flying up in the air.

It's very basic and limited, but it's there. I'll give you that a lot of Doom 1 didn't have all that much verticality to it in most places (though E1 did a fair bit, because they were looking to show off the engine)