/vr/ - Retro Games

>>3588160
>i'm too young to stand CRTs - the thread
no really, who cares? Being born in the early 80s i i've grown up with CRTs and i still use them without any problems. Well i also grew up during the cold war and Chernobyl but i'm still alive - you know what i mean? Don't be such a puss.

Scanlines are a bullshit perception of CRTs anyway. I've seen plenty of CRTs move through my household over my life and not a single one of them had 'em.

>>3588228
That's because they are mostly blended on consumer CRTs. They're only as thick as they are on PVMs and other such CRTs.

>>3588338
The scanline meme needs to die. On consumer sets with composite/RF the lines actually being scanned would blur into the blank ones. No one saw scanlines back then. (No I don't care about Pal territories with scart, you're irrelevant)

>>3588160
You get dizzy from an optical illusion? Do any of you parents? If so, please don't piss the gene pool.

>>3588220
If you were born in the 80's you don't remember the cold war and Chernobyl. But yes only millennials and a few japs ever had problems with CRTs.

>>3588345
Says the kid who never used a CRT. Scan lines were blatantly visible and everyone saw them. And we liked it damn it. Get of my lawn and read the rules underage

>>3588491
>Says the kid who never used a CRT
I think you are the kid that never used a CRT. Most consumer sets do not have prominent scanlines and many did not even have visible scanlines. Until a few years ago, I had a 27" GE CRT from circa 1996 whose scanlines were barely visible only if you perfectly adjusted the focus and your face was as few inches from the screen.

>>3588345
>No I don't care about Pal territories with scart, you're irrelevant
Even in Europe, I never noticed scanlines, unless I was literally pressing my face against the screen.
And fuck you, have a little respect for your ancestors.

>>3588228
>>3588345
>>3588527
if you all weren't illiterate, you would've read that OP was talking about PVMs not normie CRTs that you kiddies grew up with.

>>3588572
I had the same CRT from my youth until my early 20s and I certainly did not see any scanlines. Either I had a fucking awesome small TV or it was a total lie

clearly visible scanlines are meme
i have one crt tv in home and on one work, ain't never saw no scanlines except when staring at the screen from few inches. i doubt hooking it up to console adds scanlines.
inb4:some expensive, not consumer tv's had scanlines
too bad most people didn't care about those

>>3588952
i suppose it stands for professional video monitor or some shit? i understand using one, but emulating one is retarded.

>>3588989
>i suppose it stands for professional video monitor
>newfag detected

PVM stands for parallel virtual machine.

>>3588990
i've been here all summer, you dip, show some respect for a man who can't google.

>>3588972
>>3588985
>>3588160
>>3588220
>>3588345
>>3588491
>>3588572
>>3588972
>>3588985
>>3588990

Here is what you need to understand about horizontal scanlines:

1. They are not an quirk or artifact of the CRT.
2. They are a hack by the game console to output a 240p signal.
3. They are made when "pseudo 240p" is output to 480i by blanking every other line.

People lump scanlines in with shadow masks and grills and all that, but a scanline is not part of the monitor.

A scanline is a blank line output by the console to carry pseudo 240p over 480i by just cutting half the lines.

>>3588995
okay, genius
that shit in op pic is still terrific though

>>3588985

When getting close to the screen I always saw them. That was the case with the first 15'' pico TV the one after and my last CRT, a Toshiba.
They are invisible when sitting at normal distance but yeah, at close they all had them.

>>3588527
You're full of shit kiddo who only saw one CRT in your life.

>>3588995
Here is what you need to understand. You have a terminal case of the tism. An hero before you have a chance to breed. So a peaceful death on you sleep at 90.

>>3588160
No, real crts are fine as long as you are a few feet away from the screen.

Emulated scanlines are fucking stupid and don't make it look like the real deal. If you're using an emulator, I'd say just use a filter that smooths put the rough pixels and nothing else. Back when I still emulated on a flat screen computer monitor, I always preferred a filter called 'eagle' or something

>>3588345
I see youve never been to an arcade

>>3589056
>You're full of shit kiddo who only saw one CRT in your life.
Dude, I am 30. I have seen multiple CRTs in my lifetime and I still use CRTs on a daily basis. Only a high end set going to show scanlines and even then it is not likely to be super prominent unless it is a large tube or a professional monitor. On my 27" I'Art (a high end, late model TV) the scanlines are only moderately visible.

>>3589175
I wonder what resolution would be required to properly emulate scanlines.

>>3589497
I see you can't read

>>3589708

640x480

The "scanlines" aren't a complicated effect. My 20L5 looks identical with 240p and 480p + fake scanlines.

Phosphor effects (slotmask/AG/dotmask), bloom, halation, and the way brighter pixels get "taller" are the effects that require a high resolution.

And curvature effects with never, ever, EVER be convincing on a flat surface because of head movement and the focal distance issue.

>>3589703
So you're a kiddo, just one who's dad is probably a little older than me. And a bullshitter. The only time you wont see scan lines is when you're playing on a clapped out old tube where everythings blurred. Or you're playing a game interlaced. Probably what you're doing because you nostalg for y2k consoles.

>>3589923
I don't know how it is on a PVM, but on consumer sets the black space between the active lines is less than the width of the active line. See pic related and zoom out.

>>3589945
My I'Art is hardly a clapped out old tube and last I checked the NES is 240p. Pic related proves you are full of shit. Now stop spreading misinformation.

>>3589945
My I'Art is hardly a clapped out old tube and last I checked the NES is 240p. Pic related proves you are full of shit. Now stop spreading misinformation.

>>3589963

On my 20L5 the blank space is somewhere between 1x and 2x as big as the active video line, depending on contrast setting.

My late model consumer trinitron (27", found on side of road) has about a 1:1 ratio.

My middle-tier consumer (cheap, 2003-ish) set has small scanlines, like you're talking about. Probably about half the size of the active video lines.

On my cheapest sets, 240p doesn't even really look any different from 480i. You have to get a couple inches away to even notice. I don't have the two crappy sets I grew up with, but I'm pretty sure they were like this, too. I don't remember clear scanlines, and they were RF/composite-only so there was a ton of noise bouncing around the picture anyways that would have fuzzed with the perception anyways.

>>3589056
>So a peaceful death on you sleep at 90.
what

>>3588160
Scanlines are an outdated piece of shit that game developers didn't even want in their games.

Internal development screenshots never had scanlines.

>>3590037
And we all know /vr/ prays at the alter of Developer Intention, so consider this argument over!

ITT: People who've never seen any game running on a CRT via RGB.

>>3590037
>Internal development screenshots never had scanlines
So, about that...

>>3590104
Anti-scanline fags BTFO
Anti-shader fags BTFO

>>3590345
Exceptions don't prove the rule.

>>3589056
>Here is what you need to understand. You have a terminal case of the tism. An hero before you have a chance to breed. So a peaceful death on you sleep at 90.

But he is right. If the game console isn't doing the skiping of lines for whatever purpose, you won't see any scanlines.

>>3589989
Do you even know what scan lines are?

>>3589989
I don't know how scanlines exactly work, but I can definitely see horizontal lines there.

>>3590836
they are almost invisible compared to op pic.

>>3589989
>>3590840
this is more like crt hyllian, my favourite shader.
it's like in between the extremes.

>>3590489
Are you samefag or just another tard who accidentally put an r in the URL?

Every CRT shader I see has shaders way too dark and thick, and/or makes the picture really blurry. I had to tweak shit a lot to get mine to look good.

>>3592193
*has scanlines way too dark

>>3592193
>I had to tweak shit a lot to get mine to look good.
>it doesn't look good

>>3590037
that's because n64 games had shit anti aliasing and tried to look smooth instead of sharp

>>3588220
>i also grew up during the cold war

Barely.

>>3590037
>Internal development screenshots never had scanlines.

Wait a minute, how did they get those clean shots? CRT TVs were all they had at the time, and the same goes for monitors. How could they get a non-scanline shot when the only screens all had scanlines?

>>3592328
they rendered it or took a screenshot on pc you whore.

>>3592334
But PC screens had scanlines too.

>>3592543
They didn't take pictures of the screen you dimwit.

>>3588160
At low refresh rate - yes.
Minimal refresh rate for same/less impact as LCD is 100 Mhz.

>>3592612
>Mhz

>>3588160
Radiation is bad for the eyes. LED and LCD TVs are best if you're a /fit/ fag.

>>3593075
wrong niggur, oled is best for the eyes

>>3593075
>Radiation is bad for the eyes
You do realize that the amount of ionizing radiation that leaks from a CRT is trivial, right? Using a CRT monitor for a year exposes you to slightly less radiation than being in Denver for one day.

>>3593668
but using an oled exposes you not at all so you're argument is naught.

>>3593673
>so you're argument is naught.
Except that it isn't. My point still stands that CRT radiation is inconsequential.

>>3593704
no radiation is better than some radiation.
it sums up, the radiation, in your life.
stay safe, xx.

>>3593668
How about using a CRT in Denver?

>>3593736
I hope you don't eat bananas. Eating just one of them exposes you to slightly more radiation than living within 50 miles of a nuclear power plant for a year.

What's a PVM? I'm assuming not Parallel Virtual Machine.

>>3592328
Differently from earlier consoles, 5th gen consoles rendered their stuff to framebuffers which were stored in parts of the RAM/VRAM so they could just snatch them by sending the data through expansion ports.

>>3593760
it's a sony premium line of crts used in commercial productions

>>3593772
>>3593774
B-but consumer TVs all have insanely thick scanlines!

>>3593794
>muh scanlines
If u just sit back the recommended distance its fine

>>3593772
>>3593774
I snatched this image from /v/ some day ago.

>>3593803
I was making fun of the anon that was insisting that consumer sets commonly had very blatant scanlines.

>>3593772
>>3593774
>>3593794
B-but don't have insanely thick scanlines!

>>3593772 (You)
>>3593774 (You)
>>3593794
B-but PVMs don't have insanely thick scanlines!

>>3593668
Why is Denver so special?

>>3593862
High altitude. But that's nothing compared to a cross-country flight from NY to LA.

>>3593878
>more radiation from living within 50 mi of a coal power station than a nuclear.

>>3593889

hippies are retarded, news at 11

fly ash is fucking nasty

>>3593772
>>3593774
Right looks better.

>>3593889
Coal contains traces of thorium and uranium, and considering that a coal fired plant will burn several million tons of coal in one year and spew ash every where while a nuclear plant is heavily shielded and won't leak anything unless an accident occurs; it should be no surprise that being near a coal plant exposes you to more radiation.

>>3593889
Coal contains traces of thorium and uranium, and considering that a coal fired plant will burn several million tons of coal in one year and spew ash everywhere while a nuclear plant is heavily shielded and won't leak anything unless an accident occurs; it should be no surprise that being near a coal plant exposes you to more radiation.

>>3590854
i use lottes because it also has the simulated rounded edges that old tvs had. playing vidya in the dark in bed really takes you back to snes gamin when you cant see that its just a smaller screen inside of your monitor

>>3593794
There are pretty noticeable scanlines though. They're just not the hipster solid black line meme.

>>3594223
Best shader desu.

>>3594256
That looks retarded desu.

>>3594223
>simulated rounded edges
This is also retarded.

>>3594279
Your opinion's retarded desu.

>>3594289
Little baby getting flustered someone trashed their shitty shader, how cute.

>>3594291
Hardly. You used an adjective grade-schoolers use to "trash" things they dislike. Good on you, lad.

Who /blargg's NTSC/ here?

>>3594453
doesnt work with snes core so we tv-out.cg desu.

>>3594256
That looks pretty nice, dude.

>>3594289
Looks nothing like a CRT.

i got a chinkshit vga to video converter today, it's pretty rad for 6$, especially for low res pc games, and it beats cheap lcds in every possible way, well aside from shitposting i guess, it's too blurry for that, but if you really wanted you could work with word or whatever.
scanlines are a meme, i saw none unless sitting few inches away from the screen(and they are nothing like retards here apply), which is a retarded thing to do.

>>3588220
scanlines suck

i always get headaches when playing with scanlines. i always feel an instant relief when switching to a non scanline output.

Heavy metals in the brain are likely upset by RF emissions https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27418965

>>3595140
CRTs don't emit in the GHz spectrum.

Also, don't have mercury in your mouth.

amzn.to2ffjoGr

https://twitter.com/Cubs?lang=en