/vr/ - Retro Games

nice score

>>3567942
>doesn't even use his bombs
shit player detected

>>3567948
Score resets after every continue, dont really matter anyway since I dumped 33 coins pressed select until I finished it.
1941 also took me something close to 30 coins, either I suck gargantual dick at shmups or they really are the spawn or hell-jew trying to rip you of every coin and then bargain for your soul.

>>3567964
Yeah I figured you could nuke the projectiles from screen with special attack, I guess too late.
Still, pic related is a more or less regular attack and you dont have enough bombs to cancel each and every one.

>>3567968
Do you think you born a innate shmup god or what, these games require practice. Either way 33 credits is a bit too much even for a first blind run, try gitting gut

>>3567942
>Were old Shmups designed to rip you of your money completely?

That was the purpose with which all arcade games were designed. Making you die but in such a way that you think you can get past it on your next quarter if you know it's coming is the recipe for a very profitable arcade game.

>The level of difficulty is completely of the rails
yes, and?
>most of the time patterns are absolutely unavoidable
false. look up name of the game + 1cc on youtube and you'll see it's avoidable
>make enemy attack you in absolutely unpredictable and unavoidable way
that' a rarity, usually there are tell signs.
>artificial difficulty
Welcum to pre-00s gaming, enjoying putting up legit effort into playing.
All arcade games are hard, but I don't see a problem considering their extremely high production values. They rob you only if you are scrub who always continues, becouse if you continue you'll most likely die again very fast.
With a real arcade cabinet, it would be smarter to start all over again, becouse that way you'll play longer(early levels are easy) and by mastering early levels you'll have a lot more lives/boms for the hard parts.
In emulators, you should also play on 1 credit, otherwise i don't see how a game can be fun if you can't loose(which would be money irl and your progress on emulator). If you are too casual to go for 1cc, try limiting yourself as much as possible on credits(i.e. 12, if that's too easy 9 or 6) or press tab(or f2), select dip switches and lower difficulty/add lives. Anyway, try to make shit challenging for yourself or there is just no reason to play whatsoever if you just gonna insert credit every time you die.

>>3568064
also, use save-states to practice levels/bosses until you are not гoвнo eбyчee at it.

>>3568073
also also, battle garegga is for very experienced shmup players, start from the bottom of this list.
я нaдeюcь чтo бoльшe никoгдa тaкoгo гoвнo тpeдa нe yвижy тyт.

>>3568064
>All arcade games are hard, but I don't see a problem considering their extremely high production values.

So if they didn't have high production values it would be a problem?

>>3568084
yes, nobody would want to play them, average arcade game is fucking awesome looking in comparison to most console games.
and even after tens of hours you'll be discovering little details in the background, sprites, animation, music etc.

>>3568029
Emulation is a blessing for those games because now we can actually play it normally without someone waiting his turn breathing heavily into your ear or losing shitton of money in the process.

Not to mention many of those game have incredible artstyle and visuals far surpassing consoles of the time.
Granted there wont be JRPG or anything, that would require more than half an hour for completion and gameplay itself is rather simple with "pick up and play" ideology behind it, many of those games are addictive as fuck and just as fun to play.

>tfw close eyes and see bullets in spray patters flying everywhere.

>>3568064
> look up name of the game + 1cc
That was inspiring, why wasnt I born uberhuman like those guys.
What does 1CC stands for? One coin completion or something?

>no reason to play whatsoever if you just gonna insert credit every time you die.
Technically I wanna beat the game, see something new, have fun but I guess you right, you cant beat the game if you cant lose to begin with, will keep that approach in mind.

>>3568073
>save-states
MAME in Retroarch does not support it.
>я нaдeюcь чтo бoльшe никoгдa тaкoгo гoвнo тpeдa нe yвижy тyт.
Karasique plz

>>3568098
>That was inspiring, why wasnt I born uberhuman like those guys.
they aren't uberhuman, just played this game more than you played skyrim/fallach/gtach and other no skill shit. though sometimes it's possible to 1cc game under 25 hours, especially if you are very experienced in the genre.
>One coin completion or something?
yes.
>MAME in Retroarch does not support it.
it does. press tab in game, check interface controls.
>Karasique plz
ньюфaня plz.

>>3568097
That's interesting actually. With rare exception I've found most shooters boring partly because of the amount of replaying required to get good and not being interested in going through the same stage over and over. But if part of the appeal is all those little details to notice that makes some sense.

Arcade wise I was mostly into fighters and I do love the visual flare and many details that went into those games. To me looking at that was what I did when waiting my turn.

>>3568098
I think emulation and ports have made pretty much everything about arcades better. At least for what I'm interested in. No more quarters, no more waiting your turn and an endless stream of people to play against.

>>3568123
>I've found most shooters boring partly because of the amount of replaying required to get good and not being interested in going through the same stage over and over
Some like it, some don't. You need a perfectionist mentality. Think about it as doing a perfect lap in a racing game or getting a highest level score in a game like Hotline Miami. Only if playing perfectly was required to win and not being perfect few times meant starting all over. When I can get to the last stage on 1 credit the feeling is just amazing, it's like killing a team of skilled players in cs:go/dota/etc all by yourself, it's very adrenaline and makes all those hours worth it.
>But if part of the appeal is all those little details to notice that makes some sens
Part of the appeal is also noticing little details in enemy behavior/placement etc. Getting to know a game really well is fun. Back then you were forced to do it, but today there is so much distraction it can be hard to get used to to focus on one thing.

Depends on the game. Some companies, eg. Psikyo, make bullshit patterns that are literally impossible to dodge unless you've already seen and memorized them. Better companies, eg. Cave, generally only put bullshit patterns in the TLB fight. Look at Ketsui for a good example. It's very difficult, but every normal boss pattern starts with an easy version to explain how it works. You could theoretically 1-ALL it on your first attempt if you were really good.

Gun-Nac expert + ricochet

>>3568135
Yeah racing games also didn't appeal for a similar reason. But I had to accept long ago that my tastes are kind of weird. I like hearing about how and why people like games that don't interest me for some reason. It's just very interesting.

Actually that's what sort of got me into shooters for the brief time I was. One of my best friends is Mormon and he went off to do a 2 year mission like they tend to do. I was afraid he'd get brainwashed so I dedicated myself to keeping him in the loop while he was away.

Shmups were one of those games he liked and I never really cared for so I decided I'd start playing through them to give us stuff to talk about. It was fun to see what he got out of them. It worked too, all these years later we're still good friends even if life means we only get together every month or two.

In the end I came away with the impression that though they're neat games and I see the appeal in a way I didn't used to, overall they're not my cup of tea. Gaiares was the one that really stood out and still a game I occasionally go back to. I think it was the weapon upgrade system that gave room for a lot of experimenting that kept it interesting. Also I fucking love this Castlevania level where you fight death.

>>3567942
i can get stage 6 in garegga with one credit, i'm good?

>>3568213
>not WR

Not for nothing, but Battle Garegga, despite sometimes being called the best game in the genre, is pretty divisive and certainly not oriented towards new players to the genre. Its main appeal is its "nuanced" (read: incredibly convoluted) scoring system, which has absolutely no effect on the gameplay for beginning players whatsoever except that when they actually do start to get good at it the game will clobber them.

Also, experiment with horizontal shooters a bit as they're practically a different genre. No comment on which one is better than the other; you should try both for yourself. I'm a big fan of the Gradius series but something like Darius Gaiden or G-Darius (the original, not version 2) might be better for beginners.

>>3568213
>Some companies, eg. Psikyo, make bullshit patterns that are literally impossible to dodge unless you've already seen and memorized them. Better companies, eg. Cave, generally only put bullshit patterns in the TLB fight.
Except the TLB fights on Cave games are more bullshit than anything in most Psikyo games, I've yet to see a no miss no bomb Daioujou for example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiGr8E4A5lw

>>3568442
meant to reply >>3568160

>>3568363
>Also, experiment with horizontal shooters a bit as they're practically a different genre.

It never occurred to me before that all the bullet hells I'd seen are vertical. Are there any horizontal ones? And if not, why?

>>3567968
Credit feeding will prevent you from getting good.

>>3568449
>Are there any horizontal ones?
Darius, R-Type, Einhander I think.
Technically you could count in even Run&Gun games like Metal Slug since often you ahve to doge bullets from all sides.

>>3568449
Progear, Deathsmiles, some doujin stuff.
The general conception is that manic shooters/bullet-hells are easier to play on vertical than horizontal.

>>3568449
progear

>>3568449
If you're using the term bullet hell as it's usually used (as in not how it's used in the OP) then they're prototypically vertical.

Horizontal games tend to take a quality over quantity approach with bullets. There's also usually a lot more obstacles and shit in your way.

>>3568098
Shmups that don't properly color enemy bullets need to get fucked

>>3568495
Yeah that's what I meant. Darius and Rtype clearly aren't bullet hell.

All of them really, if you play by the rules of the arcade. It may take you a very long time to clear a game. It's easy to get frustrated because you have to clear the first few levels again and again before getting a try at the parts you haven't learned yet, patterns which may seem impossible in the moment since you are already on edge from having invested time into that run and really don't want to die for nothing.

>tfw I can consistently 1cc batsugun
git gut niggas, it's fun

The thing with bullet hell is that you're supposed to play them once or twice each day that you pick them up, and then stop when you're finished.

This works because when you're actually good at them one credit should last like 10-30 minutes.

Playing like this, like a brain teaser to wake up your brain in the morning or something, the feeling of playing stays fresh, the adrenaline when you close in on a new benchmark, the triumph when you finally reach your goal, you can keep playing a good bullet hell for months.

if you sit there and try over and over getting frustrated, playing for over an hour, you won't like it.

this is also why I don't like ikaruga, it's slow as shit and has tons of long ass dead zones, who the fuck wants a cinematic bullet hell

>>3568547
Is Gradius V bullet hell?

>>3568593
No. Gradius represents an entirely different path to achieving difficulty than the bullet hell approach.

Gradius V especially is about fast-moving bullets, tight corridors, having no real way to avoid obstacles you don't like (no bombs), and not fucking yourself through position.

The closest Gradius V gets to bullet hell is the fifth stage and the fact that the meteors can be blown up makes even that analogy some serious reaching.

It's an excellent game, though. Personally it's my favorite SHMUP.

>>3568573
>batsugun
13 hours and i can already reach last stage, that's piss easy desu senpai.
try beating 4 loops in batsugun special.

>>3568609
There's something about Gradius V that really pisses me off

I can't remember what stage it was that I made it to, 6 or 7, but I'd always lose momentum there. Part of it was the fact that I couldn't stand playing it on normal mode, so I was learning the stages on Hard.

The only shmups I've 1CC'd are Chorensha and Gigawing, and I ended up burning through all my extends and bomb stocks on the absolute final confrontation in both cases.

My favorite is Judgement Silversword, but fuck if I just can't seem to get the hang of Mitsurugi's last two appearances. I figured out maybe 60~70% of the "fake" final boss though, fuck if I can remember it's name.

I need to get a new analog controller so I can play again, I wore it out and it's only good for rpgs and casual shit now.

>>3568593
I certainly wouldn't call it bullet hell. Maybe that one part is a bit asteroid hell though...

>>3567942
one time at bemaniland ranch, a shmup player told me to restrict my movement to 4 directions and avoid moving diagonally no matter what. then he told me to either install a 4 way gate or a 4 way stick if I plan to get good at SHMIPS. I've gotten better over the years but I can't make it far without coin feeding still. this is a genre comprised entirely by and for enthusiast so if you're not going to dedicate weeks into months then don't expect to 1cc these games any time soon in relevance to the time span you will spend perfecting yourself.

here are some guides I've peeked at; but never took the time to read.

GD: Just the Tip [big tips for those who suck]
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=40511

Strategy Board Index
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1896


not /vr/, but Patriot Dark is a perfect SHMUP for beginners, I've been told.

http://www.freegamearchive.com/download-games/freeware/actions/patriot-dark/17203

>>3567968
>score resets after every continue
im pretty sure the rank also increases, only way to reset it is by restarting the game

>>3568609
>Personally it's my favorite SHMUP.

Interesting to hear. Gradius V is actually the only other "true" shmup I really, really like besides Gaiares. I could barely even articulate why, but something about it kept me coming back.

Ikaruga didn't do a ton for me, but Bangai-O which is shmup adjacent is in my top 10 games of all time.

>>3568639
>and avoid moving diagonally no matter what
i've played shmups barely for more than 150 hours, but that sounds dumb.
i often move diagonally and can't imagine not doing it for some patterns. though for some patterns it is indeed helpful to keep things simple. or maybe it's good for bullet hells, i haven't played them yet. unless we count ccwi as bullet hell, but i can hardly imagine playing it without diagonals.

>>3568652
now that I think about it, he was probably trying to teach me proper movement technique and I still do move diagonally these days but very rarely.

>>3568639
>one time at bemaniland ranch, a shmup player told me to restrict my movement to 4 directions and avoid moving diagonally no matter what. then he told me to either install a 4 way gate or a 4 way stick if I plan to get good at SHMIPS.
this is so wrong, moving diagonally back and forth along the trajectory of a bullet pattern to weave in and out is sometimes necessary to re-position and lead the next waves properly. it's also necessary when you want to change say your horizontal position at a slower rate than the default direct horizontal movement would allow you so that you can adjust the pixel alignment of your movement per frame when you do move horizontally or vertically again.

honestly what kind of shithead would even say that

>>3568621
I've been spending a lot of time with the game lately and really there's only two things about it that I don't like.
1. Unskippable cinematic in level 2. Why? It takes like a minute and I'm going to watch this like a thousand times.
2. The default color for bullets is grey, which is the color of half of the shit in the game.

>>3568647
I'm not a huge SHMUP player, but I've played most of the big ones. I tend to like a lot of the games but if they're flawed in even a small way I don't finish them because you've really got to love the game to play it the billion times it takes to finish most SHMUPs.

G-Darius was a game that this happened to for me. I got pretty good at it but there were so many small things about the design that I didn't like that I gave up when I started consistently getting to the last level on my first credit.

I played M.U.S.H.A. recently and, while fairly easy by SHMUP standards, that game was damn fun. That's a game I'd recommend to beginners.

Is DDP SaiDaiOuJou the only game to allow an AI 2P? More games need to do this.

>>3568559
>don't want to die for nothing
if you didn't credit feed/used save-states to practice what's ahead extensively, you'll die anyway.
>le rules of le arcade
any modern console port of a shmup includes practice mode, becouse only legit autists and japanese don't use that or save-states. oh, and people who never really wanted to beat the game.

>>3568621
>analog controller
something tells me this is why you 1cc'ed only two games. i can't imagine playing on analog especially if it's not a modern game that supoorts it. and i've never heard of anyone good playing on analog.

>>3568616
Batsugun is piss-easy only with autofire, otherwise it's a decent challenge.

>>3568616
Batsugun is piss-easy only with autofire, otherwise it's a decent challenge, besides you have 13 hours on it and still haven't cleared it.

Batsugun Special 4-All doesn't look all that hard, the real challenge is to actually play for survival and not score

>>3568728
What is autofire? Is it something that shoots enemies by itself or just makes aiming better?
New to shmups so no idea.

>>3568741
autofire is... autofire, in games like Raiden for example you have to mash buttons all the time to shot, with autofire you hold the button and that's about it.

In the case of Batsugun, using a external autofire makes the shot a lot stronger thus the game is easier. Batsugun Special adds autofire for the C button, but the original doesn't have autofire.

>>3568753
Thanks anon.

>>3568609
>having no real way to avoid obstacles you don't like (no bombs)
what is force field

I have been looking at KAMUI lately.
Do you recommend it?

>>3568741
Autofire allows you to hold the firing button down instead of tapping it repeatedly.

It's a bit more complicated than that, though, because autofire speeds have an effect on gameplay. Too slow and the game is annoying to play (Darius Gaiden), too fast and it becomes super easy (Darius Gaiden again).

>>3568762
Force field lets you take hits; it doesn't let you avoid objects or patterns wholesale. I suppose there is a connection between the effect of the two things, though.

It's also worth noting that most of the most dangerous shit in Gradius V will kill you in one hit.

>>3568704
what do you recommend to play with then?

>>3568739
>Batsugun is piss-easy only with autofire
autofire doesn't make that much of a difference, type B is powerful enough to kill most enemies quickly without tapping, type C needs tapping only in few situation, and only type A really benefits from auto-fire as you need to tap the button to shoot.
> it's a decent challenge
i agree, but it's like a walk in the park compared to the vietnam of games that are just 10 positions higher on this list(22) >>3568081
i've spent half a hundred hours on of those and the end is nowhere to be seen, and batsugun special 4-ALL is 12 positions higher, even with autofire.
>Batsugun Special 4-All doesn't look all that hard
why haven't you done it yet then? the first loop is a cakewalk, the second one is doable but last two are much harder than the original game.
>besides you have 13 hours on it and still haven't cleared it.
13 hours is nothing. it's playing for an hour on average for two weeks. i think i'll be done in 25 hours, i use auto-fire though(like most people), i didn't liked your bragging(or whatever it was), but kudos for playing the hard way.
>the real challenge is to actually play for survival and not score
explain what makes you think that way, doesn't make any sense desu. as primitive the scoring in batsugun is, it's still makes the game harder, there are no benefits to scoring whatsoever, as you'll get enough points for extra life anyway. unless by scoring you mean killing enemies to level up, which is a weird way to put it.

>>3568835
>on of those
one one of those

>>3568081
What those pluses mean?

>>3567968
>Yeah I figured you could nuke the projectiles from screen with special attack, I guess too late.
Wow, haha. So you came to this shitty malformed opinion because you didn't even know to save your bombs for tight spots?

Sounds like you're just a bad human. To not properly understand your tools before coming to a decision makes you a faulty person.

>>3568845
you mean like +1? it's exp, fill in the bar at the top and you'll level up.
>>3568812
anything but the analog, even keyboard will do, a really decent western dodonpachi player plays on keyboard.

>>3568849
Well, to be fair I played bullet hell type of games for the first time since yesterday.
I forcefeed coins to get trough 1941 and battle garegga but apart from that I have no experience neither there is manual for this game (at least not available from emulator menu)

>>3568860
Stay out the plane, kid. The skies are a place for men.

>>3568850
what about a 360 d-pad?

>>3568850
>at the top
i mean bottom.
>>3568863
while op post is retarded, i hope op will try to get good since this thread has lots of good advice.

>>3568865
never played on it, but people hate it and some consider even analog to be better, though later revisions of the controller made d-pad a bit better i heard. i play on 8bitdo fc30.

>>3568870
>i mean bottom.
Ok, I might be blind but I dont see any bar at the bottom neither I see any XP anywhere.
Share your ace jargon with me anon, what did you mean by this.

>>3568875
are we talking about batsugun? bottom left corner, where the number of your bombs is, it's written a bit to the right LEVEL 1 and there is a bar to the right. fill the bar for more powerful weapon, it goes up to level 3, if i remember correctly after level 3 you can still level up but you only get an extra bomb.

>>3568881
>are we talking about batsugun?
Nope, I meant things like this, for example.

#30 Dangun Feveron -2 if no TLB
or
#27 Deathsmiles -9 without extra
or
#28 Dodonpachi +1 for powerstyle +5 for strong style.

As well as goal thing.
No idea whether its something to compare myself to or what, what are those numbers referring to?

>>3568835
>autofire doesn't make that much of a difference
Not really, Type B with autofire is even more OP than it already is and kills everything quite fast. Not blaming you for using autofire or anything, just pointing out that the game has a remarkable challenge without it, while it's definitely easier with auto.

>i agree, but it's like a walk in the park compared to the vietnam of games that are just 10 positions higher on this list
Strikers games (21) are about the same as Batsugun, Darius II (24) is easier than Batsugun, Sengoku Blade (24) is about the same as Batsugun. Really, don't take that list too seriously.

>why haven't you done it yet then?
not feeling like it now, maybe some day

>13 hours is nothing. it's playing for an hour on average for two weeks. i think i'll be done in 25 hours
But for a game that you say it's "piss-easy" and has only 12 points on that list I think 20-25 hours is a remarkable challenge, for me a "piss-easy" game should take like 10 hours to clear.

>explain what makes you think that way
I'm just saying that a barebones 4-All if easier if you don't score, so when I play Special I'm undecided of playing for survival or score

>>3568886
Rank

##

>>3568886
it means +5 positions higher on the list if conditions are different(i.e. no autofire or using a different ship). goal means goal. in a lot of games after beating the games you start all over again but on higher difficulty, so 2-ALL would mean beating 2 loops, 1-ALL just beating the game once.
>>3568892
>m just saying that a barebones 4-All if easier if you don't score
>>the real challenge is to actually play for survival and not score
so this was a typo then?
>But for a game that you say it's "piss-easy" and has only 12 points on that list I think 20-25 hours is a remarkable challenge, for me a "piss-easy" game should take like 10 hours to clear.
i guess you are right, it's just that after CCWI everything seems easier than it is, i think it will take me 300 hours to clear it, if not more.

>>3568903
Thanks anon, here is a spooky picture for your help.

>>3568704
that's what makes it fun, a quality stick would be too easy

like basically what you're telling me is that using an analog would be too hard for you

good

that's about the level I need to feel excited

>>3569446
But you suck...

>>3569454
I'm having fun and I would be ashamed to get serious about the act of playing a videogame. Professional gaming is a joke to me. This is why I play games I like with a handicap rather than attempting to justify my power level on the internet.

I've also cleared a lot of shooters without bothering to 1CC them.

>>3569521
You haven't cleared anything then.

>>3569521
you are not any good

phrase this however you like.

>>3569534
I don't understand why you're so mad about it

Who cares how you're wasting your life

Who cares if nobody but you cares about what you're doing

Can't you just be passionate about it without trying to force your weird, unbalanced and probably unhealthy values onto others

Like I know you probably think you're playing the games better, but I can assure you I am enjoying them more, and that's the real conquest here

>>3569559
you're a piece of shit.

fuck off.

>>3569560
why are you so mad tho?

>>3569583
Not even the same guy. Swatting faggot flies like you is a ritual here. 4chan will eat you up and spit you out for acting like a fucking retard. Did you think you were trolling anyone? You're just a piece of shit. No one will feel any kind of emotion telling you this fact.

lol

>>3569598
it's like pouring salt on slugs itt

I'd almost feel bad if you weren't so clearly irredeemable

shmps are srs bsns

>>3569621
>passive-aggressive faggots boast about how much better they are for not playing games to win
>"lol y u tak dis so srsly bro"

>>3569626
Seriously, why you take this so seriously, bro? These games are like 20 years old.

>>3569626
I've never 1cc'd a shmup, probably never will, and I'm not autistic enough to be bothered by this fact.

>>3569637
>I've never 1cc'd a shmup
And you NEVER WILL.

>>3569641
I just said that you asperger's dipshit, read the entire comment before you reply.

>>3569446
>>3569521
It always sucks when I start off agreeing with someone and then they descend into retardation like this. People are only telling you to play without analog because you're needlessly handicapping yourself then getting overly defensive and shitposting over it. Sad, man.

>>3570158
honestly I came in here to talk about games I like to play to have fun and a bunch of jack offs come in to dick wave and try to correct me about the way I play them as if playing a videogame competitively isn't the opposite of fun

so what I did was dangle some lightly salted bait and watch them flip out, because the obvious distinction between me and them was the fact that they're willing to get stressed about a videogame and feel anxious about their performance comparing themselves to others, and I was rather inclined to turn that against them and make them salty since they were harshing my mellow earlier

if they were fucking adults or real human beings they could have the sense to ignore things that aren't directed at them or mind their own fucking business or go about their day without worrying about it, but they just keep getting angrier because they use the playing of videogames as a stress-seaking behavior to avoid some other clearly much greater source of anxiety that they refuse to confront

and that's just not what games are for! they're not there for you to be a piece of shit and stress yourself about something imaginary while you avoid life. when you start taking a videogame real seriously it's because you're not taking your fucking life seriously.

>>3570168
>because the obvious distinction between me and them was the fact that they're willing to get stressed about a videogame

It's nice to say that, but you really descended into pure shitposting with it. If the mention of analog in the first place was all just to derail the thread and get a bunch of trolling going that's pretty damn lame. Before that we were actually having some decent conversation in the thread. Talking about people not acting like adults when that's what you're doing... it's sad man.

>>3570168
>if they were fucking adults or real human beings they could have the sense to ignore things that aren't directed at them or mind their own fucking business

And incidentally, as super shitty as some of these shmup threads can be I honestly think the people replying to that were really just trying to help there.

I agree with what you're saying in spirit, but aggressive shitposting is immature any way you slice it.

>>3570171
>If the mention of analog in the first place was all just to derail the thread and get a bunch of trolling going that's pretty damn lame.
Honestly if my using an analog had just gotten a pass I wouldn't have started shitposting at all, but the fact is, I didn't expect it to, it didn't, and the fact that I just had to act even a little bit smug about it to guarantee a barrage of inflamed responses confirmed for me who I was dealing with here. I was HOPING for something better, but I what I got was exactly what I was expecting and I definitely feel like absolutely nothing of value was lost.

Obviously I know I should be using a stick, obviously I'm using an analog on purpose. Why can't other people live with what another person does? Why do they have to try to pretend to help? Is it that important to give yourself a smug little pat on the back every time you get the chance to try and inform someone or correct them instead of relating to them?

I rustle these jimmies in the name of justice.

"Bullet Hell" should have always been easy for me, at least the first loop.

When playing other shmups I'm always backing into bullets that may or may not be stars and I don't seem to have control over my ship, one tap covers a wide area. In bullet hells the level of fine adjustment you have over placement is amazing.

>>3570231
I wasn't one of the ones giving you shit for it, but I do remember what playing that game with the analog stick was like and it was a pretty terrible experience.

All the guy really says >>3568704 is that it's a really hard way to play and he doesn't know of anyone good who plays that way. He wasn't even really being a dick to you about it until you came back with this shit >>3569446 which is where you also lost me.

Play the game any way you want, obviously. But getting angry and start shitting up a thread because someone gives you advice is pretty immature.

As for why people want to help, some of the people here are genuinely really into shmups and they like it when they see other people enjoying the games. So if they see that you're playing one in a way that they think would make it game needlessly harder they want to help.

You rustled jimmies with no reason whatsoever and only came out making yourself look childish. Not really something to be proud of.

>OP here
What the fuck happened to this thread?

Currently I am trying to develop some strategies like going for numerous but weak targets first leaving larger fewer targets for later.
Trying to manoeuvre between bullets while backing away (this way speed of the bullet in relation to me is slower)
Use bombs to get out of a tight spot.
But still suck donkey balls at this, Esprade as Yusuke took me 35 coins (last boss was fucking AAA)
Cant spread my attention evenly between enemies, bullets that about to come and bullets I must fit in between.
I can either concentrate on enemies, while working out priorities, bullets that are about to come and look for a way in between and bullets that I am surrounded with at the moment, only one at a time.
I was looking some 1cc playtrough like some anon suggested but player were boss, he played full speed better than I when fraps slowed down things for me, he could feet in between tightest bullets and due to all happening on screen I lost track of him few times.

Now I dont want to take part in analog/digital shitfest but I kinda understand both sides here.
Analog is much more smoother to control with thumb, just tilting its smooth and easy but analog on MAME is not real analog, analog on mame is still 4 or 8 directional stick, like digital but with longer travel time.
Because of that it not only takes longer to change direction of movement but it is harder to control character precisely.
With digital you just tap a Dpad and your char moves few mm on screen, with analog it moves further simply because your character moving while you tilting analog in direction you want it to move and it keeps moving in same direction until analog goes to neutral and if you want to change direction double the time.

So yeah, matter of preference, analog guy, you are retarded, pic related.
I am new to shmups and could use hints and tips so please, dont ruin this thread, I still could use it.

>>3568098
>>3568107
>russians in /v
>russians in /tv
>russians in /co
>now this
Дa вы зaeбaли пидopы ccaныe, ecли бы я c вaми хoтeл пoгoвopить - я бы нa двaч пoшёл.

Carnevil seemed like a real bad quarter eater.
Even the last boss was naked "TokkenTaker".
As far as I know there isn't a 1cc arcade completion of it.

>>3570262

>>3567942
>Were old Shmups designed to rip you of your money completely?
Yes. Arcucks love getting cucked by the machine and putting money in

>>3570241
>He wasn't even really being a dick
he was being a dick.

>>3570284
Even if he was, throwing a tantrum over it is pretty sad.

>>3570284
>telling someone that he's doing something wrong means being a dick
typical millenial pissbaby

>>3570258
>With digital you just tap a Dpad and your char moves few mm on screen, with analog it moves further simply because your character moving while you tilting analog in direction you want it to move and it keeps moving in same direction until analog goes to neutral and if you want to change direction double the time.
It just requires more precision , compared to moving a stick back and forth or a thumb from one side of the d-pad to the other, there's really no difference except that an analog requires a finer touch to do the same thing.

That is in fact the very reason why I prefer it, you can't play with an analog if you panic.

If someone said REAL PROS ONLY USE KEYBOARD I would have just laughed, it's funny because it might actually be true sometimes.

>>3570290
I'm not the one bitching about my precious intellectual hug box being disrupted

>>3570293
You may laugh but one of the absolute best fighting game players I ever met preferred keyboard over everything and he was incredible.

>>3570289
I'm not sure what you think a tantrum is. I was practically causing tantrums here. Shit took no rage or effort at all.

>>3570295
Exactly, it's funny cause it's actually plausible.

>>3570294
Why are you acting like this? Is there legitimately something wrong with you?

>>3570297
You acting like a baby and flipping out at people whether you tell yourself it's "lightly salted bait" bait or not is really sad man. I'm just disappointed that someone I thought I was having a decent conversation with yesterday had turned into a total shitposting asshole overnight and now talking proudly about derailing the thread.

>>3570301
There's no such thing as pretending to be retarded. If you do; you are.

What you're seeing here is a guy who is lost in his own mental prison. Forced to post intentionally dumb shit for attention.

>>3570298
Why does that make it funny at all?

>>3570168
Jesus.

Why did I even help you? This dude tries to help you by letting you know that a lot of games simply aren't designed for the analog stick and won't quite work right if you use it and you go off on some irrelevant shit about how you're handicapping yourself on purpose and playing games for competitive reasons says something about your mental state (it doesn't).

In this incident there's no one to blame but you.

>>3570258
These games are built like a series of puzzles, basically. You can't expect to take on the thing as a whole and improve meaningfully on it; you have to focus on sections at a time and figure your way through them. A generalized approach simply doesn't work for these games because the developers intentionally design the margins for success to be razor-thin. You have to know exactly what you're doing from start to finish, basically.

Find a game you like and want to develop some strategies for. Then, set a limit for how many credits or lives you get and see how far you can make it within those parameters. Generally speaking, you get better at SHMUPs not by credit feeding through the whole thing repeatedly but by focusing on getting better at certain parts of the game until you can do the whole thing.

>>3570168
>as if playing a videogame competitively isn't the opposite of fun
massive piece of shit

>>3570236
I've always kinda wondered this since I don't play these sort of games.
Is stuff like R-Type easy to someone who plays a lot of bullet hells?

>>3570335
They're almost totally different. Like Tetris and Panel De Pon, similar ideas but very different skill sets.

>>3570336
Panel De Pon is awesome, shame level of difficulty spikes so fast.
At some point you either start removing shit the moment countdown stops or lose in the next 5 seconds.

>>3568609
Gradius V is over long, needs editing and killed everything that made gradius gradius. No moai and hr long loops was a mistake. 2,3,IV and gaiden are top tier.

>>3570301
It's my opinion that there's legitimately something wrong with every other person here and the way they behave as a group.

>>3570323
Professional gaming is literally a joke. Someone is literally laughing at you from a tower made from actual elephant tusks.

>>3570386
I never once addressed any of the stupid shit you said, retard. Only that you're a piece of shit.

>>3570387
I'll stop doing it when you stop being hysterical.

>>3570393
I want you to live forever as a piece of shit. A fitting punishment for you.

>>3567942
>>3567942
There are casual SHMUPs for people like us. Altynex Second, Jamestown, Major stryker, Raptor, Astebreed, Kamui, Touhou Imperishable Night to name a few that are fairly beatable without many/any continues if you're not a potato. They'll also run on pretty much any PC.

Anything in an arcade is generally quarter sucking, at least on your first go of it.

>>3570404
You're still doing it. Does it bother you that society sees you as a wasteful, materialistic manchild for playing videogames as an adult and laughs at you when you take them seriously?

>>3570380
When you think the problem is literally everyone else except you, it might be time to take a serious look at your life. I had been genuinely trying to have a normal conversation with you before all this.

>>3570419
You can't see what a massive piece of shit you are, I doubt you can clearly see anything else.

>>3567942
Try Battle Bakraid, another similar Raizing shmup, but more easily to clear.

>>3570419
>>3570419
Just ignore him. It's clear at this point any attempt he was making at normal conversation has gone out the window and he's dedicated to shitposting because his feelings are hurt. Nothing anyone can say will make him grow up.

>>3570424
>When you think the problem is literally everyone else except you, it might be time to take a serious look at your life.
If you never think that, it might be time to take a serious look at your life.

OP is a faggot but Dickwaving over SHMUPs endears you to no one

>>3570435
If you're being serious, I honestly feel bad for you. But you make it very hard to not dislike you intensely. No one should be this upset over discussion about video games.

>>3570429
It's not that my feelings are hurt, what I feel here is indignation. These kinds of group hysterics and emotional theatrics disgust me, so my response is to push your discomfort to the limit. I can't let you go while letting you feel good about yourself when you act like this. I don't care what you think of me, it's unfair for a group of people to act like this when there are some people who will legitimately get frightened or depressed over this sort of thing. It's bullying and you bet your ass I can troll you forever about it.

>>3570442
>No one should be this upset over discussion about video games.
that's exactly the point I'm trying to make
>But you make it very hard to not dislike you intensely.
this shouldn't be something that influences my behavior when there are greater ideals at stake

>>3570449
>>3570450

>These kinds of group hysterics and emotional theatrics disgust me, so my response is to push your discomfort to the limit.
>that's exactly the point I'm trying to make

So you come to a board and thread about things you don't like so you can act like an asshole and hopefully upset people? Okay dude, I'm sorry I wasted any time actually trying to talk to you.

And really, seriously if you're not seeing someone about your emotional state, you should. The way you're acting really isn't normal, even on 4chan. I think you're immature and an asshole, but I don't wish you ill and I hope that whatever causes you to act like this is something you can deal with.

>>3570462
>So you come to a board and thread about things you don't like
That's not true, I like videogames and I like bullet hells.

I'm not here to act like an asshole and upset people, here there are assholes, and it's my hope to upset them now that they've shown up.

>>3570525
The guy telling you Gradius V plays badly with an analog stick maybe wasn't as polite as he could have been but was giving you decent advice and that's literally all it took for you to turn this entire thread into your personal toilet of hatred. You are either a complete asshole who's just itching for any excuse to fight or you have some sort of serious problem.

Also for the record, I don't think you're actually upsetting anyone. The serious shmup players giving you shit don't care, they're just laughing at you. I'm disappointed that you seemed reasonable at first and then have descended into this, but it's not upsetting it's just sad.

Please, get off 4chan and get some help. That's not shit talk and not trolling, you seriously sound super miserable and it's a terrible way to spend what little time we have in this life.

>>3570558
Just to preface, I'm not the obnoxious ass you're referring to in your post.

Does Gradius V actually control badly with an analog stick? I mean, the general problem with using analogs for SHMUPs is presumably that most games in the genre handle movement entirely digitally (as an arcade stick would). However, Gradius V is a console game for a a console that supports the analog stick, so it would be one of the most likely candidates around to actually support analog movement.

I'm going to test this myself later.

>Shitter baby deleting his posts
top kek

>>3570606
I tried it analog a handful of times and thought it was pretty terrible. Partly it's the PS2's sticks that I've never liked, but it just felt much less precise and that's a game that needs a good amount of precision. I'm sure it's possible though, and good on that guy for enjoying it that way if it's what he likes. Just too bad he's so insecure about it all.

>>3570558
>The guy telling you Gradius V plays badly with an analog stick maybe wasn't as polite as he could have been
The hell? I stopped playing Gradius V because Gradius V drags on stops being a fun game because it gets tedious. That guy didn't even mention Gradius V.

>>3570613
I think that's the janitor actually

>>3570634
Whenever I play it I switch between the two a lot because, while I'd really rather use the d-pad, I hate the PS2 d-pad.

I ought to just buy it on PS3 so I can play it with a stick.

>>3570662
Sony makes the worst dpads of all time.

>>3570634
>>3570662
it works until it wears out. Then it doesn't really work anymore. You can't do it with a heavily used controller, the analog might be fine for many types of games, but it needs to be in good condition for a real shmup

>>3570353
I'd rather have a longer game than a short one that I feel like I have to loop a lot to get the most out of it.

>>3570705
>it works until it wears out.
>Then it doesn't really work anymore.

ITT: redundancy from retards.

>>3568525
This

>>3570753
There are a lot of things the analog will work for even when it's worn out.

It's okay I know subtlety is lost on the autistic. I'll try to remember to explain it more clearly for you next time.

>>3570774
Go ahead and name me a game that makes good use of analog and works just as well with a worn out stick as a good one.

>>3570797
Armored core is still pretty playable until you reach some extreme levels of wear. I also don't see how it needs to work "just as well" when that's not what I said. It just needs to be capable within plausibility.

>>3570753
>>3570774
>>3570797
>>3570809

This is a really stupid thing to argue about.

>>3570683
I've got to believe that this has something to do with patents. I can't think of another reason why someone would make such a shitty d-pad.

>>3568639
>avoid moving diagonally no matter what.

I've only been playing shooters semi-seriously for a few years, but I've heard that line at least once before. Any truth to it?

Anyways, all arcade games were designed to get money to some degree or they wouldn't be profitable. What I find more interesting is how console shooters continued to maintain a much higher level of difficulty overall compared to other arcade genres on console.

>>3568196
That photo is super comfy.

>>3571007
There are definitely moments where moving diagonally is unavoidable. I still think he wanted me to develop a good movement technique but I never saw him again so there's no way to know.

>>3571080
Dont know shit about shmups just learning them but in those few playtroughs I did I think not moving diagonally is about conserving movement and space management.

When you move diagonally you not only move slower in straight line but all the bullets and enemies follow you.
You are easier to intercept by guided missiles and kamikaze pilots since you are moving slower in either horizontal or vertical line in relation to someone who goes straight from the sides of the screen.

I also think more of the screen is covered in bullets and more evenly after you move diagonally than if you would just used small movements and in straight line.
I mean I still use diagonals but if there is a chance not to I go in straight lines trying to guide all the bullets on screen somewhere they wont be as bothersome as they would be if followed me in diagonal patch and spread evenly all over.
Since you moving slower diagonally enemies have more time to shoot more bullets at you while you move so, the screen is more covered (that said the screen is always covered so much I have no idea what is going on)

All shmups I tried as of now used 8 direction stick so no accurate analog movement and most of the patterns I met are not really spread in such way that moving at 45° would allow you to go trough them, much easier to move in small straight steps which is also faster.

That said I still suck donkey balls so cant tell for sure whether my theory is correct.

>>3570231
> if my using an analog had just gotten a pass
i'm that anon(been on a shift so couldn't answer) and that was just an advice, not whatever you imagined it is. you are free to play even with a powerglove if you wish, but becouse you mentioned getting a NEW analog, it seemed like you actually care at least a little about your perfomance. you also asked me about the x360 d-pad(and then deleted that post), which is again, could've been an indicator that you are actually interested in getting a bit better. also, i have no idea why you think that 1cc is competetive, making a decent dinner doesn't make a professional cook. scoring is where the competion is, you can clear the game with a horrible score, and believe it or not but people do both 1cc and score for fun, and most top scorers(all of which are japanese) are total normies.
>Obviously I know I should be using a stick
You shouldn't, like I said anything is better than an analog, even a keyboard. And I use a fucking nes d-pad.
>I rustle these jimmies in the name of justice.
you are making shit up, judging by the length of your posts, the only rustled person here is you, seek help becouse imo something is wrong with you.

>>3570258>>3571202
tldr
you are thinkgen too hard for someone who is totaly new to the genre, just keep playing and a lot of things will come naturally. also, don't credit feed through the whole game more than just once, it's easier to learn a poem bit by bit, same with these games, try playing on 1 credit even if 1cc is not your goal.
also, start with something relatively easy, like MUSHA. console shmups are a good place to start overall, they have continues, which makes them beatable for newcomers, but not enough to make it a cakewalk, arcade is all about getting voluntarily gud, which is not something beginners like to do.

>>3571651
>don't credit feed through the whole game more than just once
I think I can do that for now simply because I am still learning how to manoeuvre between bullets
>tfw boss dies not because I shoot at him but because he is damaged from me exploding I know, I am shit

>>3572159
>I am still learning how to manoeuvre between bullets
that's not gonna work, the patterns are very different from each other, it's like a series of puzzles like other anons said. you should learn few at a time, it's easier to learn by dividing a big taks into smaller ones, aim not for the x-credit clear, but for beating the first boss without dying for example. you are free to do whatever is fun for you though, but from my experience doing credit-feeding runs is very, very ineffective and leads to giving up on a game(clearing it in a reasonable amount of credits at least)

>>3571615
>you also asked me about the x360 d-pad(and then deleted that post)
?? that wasn't me
>becouse you mentioned getting a NEW analog, it seemed like you actually care at least a little about your perfomance
I care about doing it at all, when it's actually a fun game that I enjoy playing, I care about doing better than I did. If I use a stick then I'm not actually doing better at the same thing, I'm doing a different thing entirely. 1cc with analog =/= 1cc with a stick. it's not the same goal.
At no point did I say "I wish I could clear more games" or "I was having trouble and I wish I was better at this game", what I said was "I cleared this game, I cleared that game, I played this other game but never finished it because I eventually stopped liking it because of the length of the game and the way it was designed, and this other game that I do like I didn't finish because the skill ceiling was high enough that I wore out my controls before I finished it."

I know I could practice enough and buy an expensive stick or make my own stick and with perfect controls eventually work out a way to clear this game and probably a lot of other games. Why should I want to? I'm having more fun trying to clear JSS with an analog. Does it matter if that's what was intended? The idea of what's intended means nothing to me.

What I want to do is have fun playing a game and find other games that I like playing and play them too, so I can learn more about games I like and what they're like. It doesn't matter how, it doesn't matter what other people's goals are, it doesn't matter what they've done.

You weren't trying to "help me get better", you were trying to "help me better be more like you" and to be honest the idea completely disgusts me. It means something to you to have cleared a lot of games. It means something to the extent that you think it should inherently be part of my goal.

It's fine for you to misunderstand but it irritated me that you grouped me in with you.

>>3572191
>You weren't trying to "help me get better", you were trying to "help me better be more like you"
i don't even use a stick, and i told you that even keyboard is fine, which i also don't use, i didn't tell you to get a pad that i prefer, that would be "help me better be more like you". feel free to continue using the stick for whatever the reason, just wanted to inform you that wearing flip flops in a marathon is a bad idea, didn't knew you are intentionally holding back your powah level becouse finishing the marathon is not your goal, accidentally finishing it(and coming in last, becouse that's what 1cc is) and then pretending that you are somehow superior to others who finished for doing it in flip-flops is what you want, you want to feel special.

>>3572206
>feel free to continue using the stick
analog stick

>>3572206
It's possible that I simply am different to begin with and find it irritating to be singled out and guided in the same direction back to the place where everyone else is, when I simply don't care what you guys are even doing over there.

Maybe I'm running the road the marathon is on, naked at night, when no one else is there, and you come across me and start trying to help me make it to the marathon and run it properly, but you know maybe I just like running, naked, at night in the cold with my cock flapping in the wind. Why you gotta try and interfere? Why does it bother you in the first place? What motivates your initial interaction?

Why does it bother you when I tell you I'm not interested or impressed by anything you're doing and have no interest in being more like you? Why does it make you hysterical if I say that I think the way I am is better than the way everyone else is? Isn't that how everyone is? Did you give up on part of who you are to better play the game that everyone else is a part of?

>>3572239
Fuck off to reddit you nigger

>>3572239
>Maybe I'm running the road the marathon is on, naked at night, when no one else is there
you don't. you are just running a marathon in flip flops while telling other runners that you finished only two marathons, someone tells you it could be becouse of the flip-flops, you then throw a fit and start telling others that they are no life, no fun looser for running in more fitting footwear and doing their best to at least finish the marathon, and that they are absolute assholes for politely trying to help.

>>3572258
There's a lot of things I can think of that I'd rather do than run more marathons. I'm really not interested in getting serious about running marathons either. It's a bit unnecessary and uncomfortable when someone tries to help me do something I don't want to do. I just happened to do the things a few times, for fun, and also happened to talk about that, and how for me I went through the experience in a certain way. You came by to correct someone for doing something that wasn't asking to be corrected, to try and do something they didn't want to do, for the sake of things they didn't consider important and weren't interested in taking seriously.

Then I said such a thing about what I was doing to intentionally piss you off, because you were more serious about it than I was, because you intentionally are acting to make someone else to take it more seriously, because you made an automatic assumption that it should be srs bsns for some stranger who legitimately doesn't care about marathons. When someone started getting upset about it then, I started conjecturing the thing that they were srs bsns about was actually a waste of time.

It is. 1cc bullet hells and marathons are a waste of time. You don't need to run a marathon just to stay in shape, you can just go run. It's an made up way of gauging a person's ability to do something completely arbitrary. A meaningless self-imposed challenge.

Judging someone else based on their interest and ability to do some meaningless non-essential task and guide them to do anything that they have not expressed as a goal is idiotic.

If my name was at the top of the high score list I would likely be pretty embarrassed and start questioning whether that says I'm some sort of obsessive compulsive perfectionist time waster mega autist, unless I hadn't spent a lot of time doing it, or had just been playing for fun the entire time, in which case I still wouldn't feel compelled to show anyone.

I just enjoyed playing those games.

>>3572286
have a hide

>>3568525
This is the trouble I am running into with Bloo Revolver currently.

>>3570353
I'd rather play V for the rest of my Gradii than play IV ever again.

>>3568684
That sounds rad. I hope Cave "ports" this next.

>>3572496
The item shop also lets you buy stuff like muting the loli conversation sprite, so in combination with putting the voice volume to 0, you can effectively un-weeaboo the game enough to make it alright. I'm a filthy casual but the game is way too difficult, not really fun, but the item shop is so good it should be in all future shmup games. By the way the concept of the item shop is basically return of cheat codes but you earn them.

OP here, made a new thread because all the shitposting making it harder to find useful posters.

If you have anything to help a noob get better go there. >>3572560
"Master troll", please stay here, no need to kill every thread with shitposting.

>>3572286
Pro tip: no one anywhere really cares how you play your video games. In truth, no one anywhere really cares what you do at all. But if you announce that you're doing something odd, people are going to comment on it. And if you have a melt down over that, people are going to comment on that as well because it's strange behavior.

Around here if you have a melt down people are not only going to take notice, but they're also going to poke and prod you into having another. For no other reason than it's funny to watch.

tl;dr, do whatever you want and be cool about it and everyone will be cool with you. Act like a big sour baby and people laugh at you.

Choice is yours, sweet pea.

>>3567942
garegga is one of those magical games that really is designed to fleece the player if they don't know exactly what they're doing
namely, playing without any knowledge of the rank (dynamic difficulty) system and how to manipulate it will ensure that you're probably going to die horribly even if you are generally good at these games
really simplified explanation: you practically outright have to suicide at times in Garrega because it's the one thing that lowers the rank, but you have to also stay alive enough to get the score needed to get extra lives in order to not have to continue, and you have to know what's coming, this is not a game designed to be beaten on a first playthrough, period

also, reboot the game every time you start playing, which resets rank back to minimum, since it's not completely reset on game over (it keeps rank higher to get people off the machine when it's busy)

most of the well known arcade shmups aren't made to fleece you like Garrega is, or at least they aren't quite as obnoxious about it
garrega is fairly popular amongst hardcore fans because it's got a fair bit of shit going on behind-the-scenes and you're supposed to exploit it, but it's very much a game built for hardcore fans

side note: the game is completely retarded on non-Japan settings, and a lot of shmups are completely fucked by changes that were made without thought or testing when playing the international releases

>>3574960
>no one anywhere really cares how you play your video games
I wish this were true
> In truth, no one anywhere really cares what you do at all.
I really, really wish this were true
>But if you announce that you're doing something odd, people are going to comment on it.
I actually kind of slipped it in as a side comment. That it was immediately the thing that someone gravitated to was something I thought was unfortunate. But then, with not much information to go on they immediately took the only available means of feeding their sense of superiority to other people by taking the opportunity to inform someone on how to play videogames properly.

This was bait. It was bait from the very moment I typed the word "analog". It takes a specific kind of insecure person to need to make that suggestion instead of just talking about the games themselves or their own experiences.

At that point, the successive over-reactions and melt downs I received by goading posters with claims that no, actually, I was the one who was superior, was all me slipping into habit and playing with the hysteria I was seeing like it was a toy. People literally went into hysterics, actual uncontrollable emotional responses of rage and frustration over some completely trivial comments about playing videogames of all things.

I had over a dozen people losing their shit and getting completely derailed just by talking about analogs. Think about that for just one minute.

>>3575021
>I really, really wish this were true
Don't mistake people mocking and prodding you because watching a semi-retard lose his shit is funny for genuine care.

>>3567942
yes, people forget that the customers for arcade games were the arcade operators, not the players, these were just walking coin bags.

Arcade operators wanted flashy games were people last 10-20 minutes tops with a credit, easy enough to hook up a bit but hard enough to last just the alloted time and let another sucker play asap, that's why early neo geo games had these insane difficult curves (half the game is a walk in the park, then the other half is hell on earth unless you know how to break them) or that's why all konami arcade beat'em'ups were shit, with crappy collision detection but really good in consoles.

>>3575036
then y u still mad bro

>>3575054
lol you're the one crying your eyes about about being trolled

>>3575060
How is that even possible when I've been trolling since basically every post except the first

please ignore the analog retard, i don't want to hide more posts.
>>3575012
>(it keeps rank higher to get people off the machine when it's busy)
that sounds like the most jewish stg ever conceived.
>a lot of shmups are completely fucked by changes that were made without thought or testing when playing the international releases
do you have any proof of that? i've heard of regional version being harder/easier, but saying there are "a lot" of them is a serious claim.

>>3575114
>I wish this were true
>I really, really wish this were true

You're the one who's upset, kiddo ;^) Unless you're whole troll shtick is to act like a buttmad baby so people will laugh at you.>>3570258

>>3570258
>What the fuck happened to this thread?

Well let's see.

>Are shmups the definition of artificial difficulty?
>artificial difficulty

And there you go you used a buzzword that does nothing but incite rampant shitposting in your opening post.

>>3575205
>You're the one who's upset, kiddo ;^)
I'm disappointed in the sense that humanity shows such a lack of intelligence and character at times that it is genuinely depressing and discouraging that these are the people I'm going to have to fix.

>>3568135
>When I can get to the last stage on 1 credit the feeling is just amazing,

Yeah cause you never got laid before lmao.

>>3575301
so if you had sex you stopenjoying videogames? thanks for the info, one more reason to become a wizard.

>>3575309
LMFAO!!!!!!111!!!!

>>3575301
You've obviously never 1cc'd before cause it's better than sex by far.

Not better than making love though

actually I wouldn't know all my sexual encounters have been hollow acts of catharsis or anger ;_;

>>3575150
>do you have any proof of that? i've heard of regional version being harder/easier, but saying there are "a lot" of them is a serious claim.

pretty much all of Toaplan's games are easier outside of Japan, some of them remove the checkpoints and have you respawn where you died
Xexex was completely butchered outside of Japan
Donpachi is easier outside of Japan, except in Hong Kong (where it becomes retarded hard), IIRC it also gives you a fuckton of bombs in the US version

there's more, too lazy to go look up the rest

>that sounds like the most jewish stg ever conceived.
really, all the games made by a certain Yagawa (aka YGW) are kind of really jewish

>>3568684

The mobile ports for the Strikers 1945 games allow for AI 'partners.' They're generally easier than the original arcade versions, however, unless you're playing them on Master difficulty.

>>3568779

I would. It's a pretty cool game. Like Rayforce but somehow both more hardcore and easier. If you play it like an arcade shmup, you practically have 15 fucking lives off the bat. There's an unlock that makes the game play harder and differently.

>>3570258

The problem with the game you're playing is that it scales its difficulty to match your performance, which means that the whole game will be really fucking hard. However, you can trick the game into lowering the difficulty by committing suicide occasionally. It's also important to note that using bombs causes the game to raise its difficulty by quite a bit, so you should only use them when necessary.

>>3575258
>I'm disappointed in the sense that humanity shows such a lack of intelligence and character
>these are the people I'm going to have to fix.

What are you talking about?? This is coming from the person who also says "It was bait from the very moment I typed the word 'analog'". You are openly saying that you are tolling but you're also the one who is reacting far worse than anyone else.

Is your plan to "fix" these people really to dangle some bait about playing badly and then have a tamper tantrum all over the thread? Because that's exactly what has happened here. You went out of your way to purposefully derail and shit post.

To call your attitude childish would be a massive disservice to children. You are beyond mere childish behavior, you are actively hostile for no good reason. I don't know what's wrong with you, but if you're not ashamed of how you're acting please find someone real to talk to about your problems.

>>3576325
>playing badly
seriously just take a moment to think about this and how sad it is if this is even a concept to you

>>3576330
Are you not following? He purposefully mentioned playing with analog as bait, knowing it's not an optimal way to play. It's the sole reason he mentioned it and then he used it as an excuse to explode at everyone who responded to it in any way.

>>3576338
>He purposefully mentioned playing with analog as bait, knowing it's not an optimal way to play.
exactly what kind of a trash person do you have to be to take that bait and the bait that followed it though? If you weren't shit then it wouldn't even be bait to you. It would be nothing.

>>3576469
That's kinda the funny thing about all this. The original analog bait he used didn't get a ton of reaction.

Only one guy pointed out that it's probably why he had been having trouble 1CCing games and that he doesn't know anyone known as being a "good" player who does that.

As far as bait responses it was pretty mild, but it was enough of a reaction for him and he used it to spin the entire thread into shitposting. Which is the state I found the thread in when I came back to it the next day and the state it's stayed in.

You can read it all in the thread, some of his posts have been deleted by the janitor but even with the ones that remain make it clear. His sole, stated purpose in all of this was to stir up shit and make sure real discussion is impossible.

Are there any cute-em-ups where you can play as a little boy?

>>3576572
Nope. Your options are sexy little girls, creepy old men or penguins.

>>3576529
Actually it was a way of proving that the posters here are incapable of controlling themselves when confronted with difficult emotions.

All you had to do was be better, all I wanted was for you to be classy; but you couldn't do that, could you?

Is this really wizard class shitposting, or are you just incapable of doing the right thing when things get hard?

It was such a simple test too.

>>3576619
is Cho-Aniki a cute-em-up?

>>3576623
So... your plan was to post bait, then act like a complete raging lunatic when it got a reaction all as a test to see how the posters here would react to someone being like that.

Sorry but we're not your, or anyone else's baby sitter. And we're not here to pat you on the back and soothe you when you throw tantrums.

You were literally acting like a rotten child, and doing so on purpose. There's no good reason for that, especially not as a "test" for how people will respond. If you don't act like an adult, no one is going to treat you like one.

>>3576642
>act like a complete raging lunatic
I'm pretty sure all I did was say a lot of things that make people uncomfortable on purpose. If anything the other people here were acting closer to what you call a "tantrum", basically just spitting obscenities and crude insults and raging out claiming that I was some sort of actual monster for saying mean things about videogames.

>>3576627
Nah, it's a brute-em-up belt-shooter

>>3576623
>a way of proving that the posters here are incapable of controlling themselves when confronted with difficult emotions.

>difficult emotions.
fucking kek

All I see is someone narcissistic and full of delusions of his supposed superiority.
You telling me you come here to this thread, just so you could prove your superiority to everyone else.
People were having fun and then you, a fucking narcissist drops by and screw it for everyone because he have something to prove.

Yeah right, you're just a retard who threw a bigger tantrum than anyone else, this whole retarded explanation is nothing but a weak attempt to somehow erase the fact you were like a teenage girl on facebook trying to keep her face when someone said something mean to her, except there is no block button so you went on a giant ego-washing campaign.

Dont think no one noticed that despite all that being "le ebic troll" you just keep protecting your face trying to explain to everyone accusing you of being a retard that in fact you wasnt a retard just trolling and then you go on explaining how complicated and intricate your troll plan was like its something close to an intrigue happening during French monarchy banquet and not the most regular shitposting many users before you did and ruined threads with and many did much better than you at it.

Now please go fuck yourself with analogue stick or whatever, mister le ebil troll, I am surprised you wasnt banned yet, this site is 18+.

>>3576668
This was your response to the guy who was just trying to give you advice.

>that's what makes it fun, a quality stick would be too easy
>like basically what you're telling me is that using an analog would be too hard for you
>good
>that's about the level I need to feel excited

That's just pure shitposting. You are actively trying to antagonize people and now trying to claim that it was all a test. That this was to see how people would react to "difficult emotions".

You have made it clear repeatedly in this thread that you are trolling and baiting on purpose. You are trying your absolute hardest to stir shit up and then when you succeed, try to again turn it around like it was all a failed test.

I have no idea what's wrong with you, but this is a fucked up level of trolling.

>>3576674
>All I see is someone narcissistic and full of delusions of his supposed superiority.
>You telling me you come here to this thread, just so you could prove your superiority to everyone else.
The real question is, why was what I did so effective? Why does it immediately start a fire if I joke about being superior and needing a handicap to play shmups? Why do people take such absurd comments seriously?

It's easy to say I have a superiority complex, but it shows pretty clearly what's at work here when you make that accusation.

You have an inferiority complex.

>>3576682
>The real question is, why was what I did so effective?

It's not complicated at all. You acted like a bratty asshole and people called you a bratty asshole. Were you really expecting something different?

>>3576682
>The real question is, why was what I did so effective?
Rather why you think it was effective?
> if I joke about
Oh, so now it wasnt a test we? I mean half a thread ago I could swear that was a test, S3 on multiple chins support group forum.
>You have an inferiority complex.
Well yeah, I know smart people and I know I am galaxies behind them.
I know funny and amazing people, I know people who can turn your worldview with a fucking joke.

There are artists, engineers, doctors and scientists and I am not anywhere near their level.
Of course that makes me realise that I am no one compared to them, except I rate myself against people worth admiring, not on my ability to shitpost.

>>3576682
>Why does it immediately start a fire if I joke

Wait, wait, wait... this >>3569446 is supposed to be a joke? That was you "joking"?

>>3576692
So is this bullet hell? What's the difference between a bullet hell and a normal vertical shooter? Just lots of bullets or is there something specific?

>>3576703
One minute it's that we can't take a joke, the next it's that we failed his test of dealing with difficult emotions. He can barely keep his troll story straight.

>>3576703
It was obviously a comment designed to portray an absurd situation of person who intentionally uses a difficult peripheral to limit their power level, vs the much more likely situation that they just didn't care and were having fun anyway, followed by a clearly inflammatory statement reversal of the first (instead of "I'm too good to-" it's "You're not good enough to-"), underscored by the fact that this is 4chan where everything you read should be suspected of satire and facetiousness.

Though I have to agree it was kind of a flop and wasn't the same kind of funny anymore when people took it seriously, but it was so bizarre to see people get that upset about it that I just had to keep pushing and intentionally started targeting based on the negative associations with the "gamer" stereotype in society.

which by all means you should be used to. you should have thicker skin than that. you should be able to like videogames and enjoy them no matter what mean things people say to you about them.

>>3576718
no reason it can't be both

>>3576704

Whether Battle Garegga is a bullet hell depends on who you ask. Some people like to call it bullet hell, some people say its a manic shooter. Just pick whatever definition works for you.

As for me, I'd say bullet hell as a subgenre does a few specific things compared to their predecessors:

1) Many more bullets on screen with an emphasis on deliberately designed bullet patterns. Patterns are approached a bit more like little puzzles, with multiple "layers" of bullets that behave differently, columns to confine movement, mixes between aimed shots and fixed patterns, etc.

2) An involved scoring system that requires active involvement from the player and balances risk vs reward. Be it chaining, medaling, graze or point blanking based systems, there's always something for players to master beyond just survival.

3) Tiny hitboxes. One of the things that tips the scales in the players favor, and makes these games pretty doable. Instead of having to dodge with your entire player sprite, there's just a small area in the center that will register hits, letting you slip through otherwise overwhelming bullet patterns.

To me, those are the three things that really define "bullet hell".

>>3576692
Oh I get it now. You thought you were a good shitposter, got absolutely fucking humiliated, then damage controlled for 3 days out of butthurt-- culminating in you learning the truth.

>I rate myself against people worth admiring, not on my ability to shitpost.

You suck. You're just a big baby. Haha!

>>3576772
I was replying to shitposter, read again.

>>3576745
>It was obviously
It wasn't obviously any of that, you social retard.

>>3576781
Oops!

Let me draft a new humiliating barb for this clown...

>>3576682
By your own admission, you've been here for 4 days, locked in infantile tantrums with random anon. Most of them dismissive of you and confused by you. Since you're stupid, let's visualize what happened:

You sustained a tornado of clear anger that multiple people humiliated you for. You willingly admitted it is you from earlier in the thread, connecting your identity to your tantrums you've thrown days ago so everyone can see how childish you are.

Your impact as a troll artist is to get OP to change threads, most people to just discuss around you, completely ignoring the white noise your posts essentially are, and inspire multiple people over the course of a week to laugh at you, and call you a bitch/pussy, etc.

Effective? You were effective, alright. If your goal was to utterly surrender your leverage as a troll and allow yourself to be framed as the village idiot. Super effective.

>itt

>>3576814
More like pic related.
I mean I thought he was just retarded, then he said it was a bait and I even believed for a moment but now I realise he is actually retarded.

>>3576824
It's like Bizarro Plato's cave of trolling.

>>3576795
I wasn't ever and am still not angry though.

The people talking to me have been pretty angry.

>>3576830
kek

Care to share with us who you think is angry, Kiddo?

>>3576838
It only takes second so;
>>3569560
>>3569598
>>3569626
>>3570323
>>3570387
>>3570404
seem like pretty angry responses

actually I don't know what the janitor is doing a lot of this doesn't even have any content

there's probably more since I just skimmed but I'm not reading this shit thread twice

there were a lot of posts where people were trying to pressure me into feeling repentant or something, but that's something I'm obviously never going to feel based on someone else's opinion

>>3576863
You're proud you got one guy to call you a piece of shit 5 times, while you wrote butthurt essays over 4 days?

>>3576830
Well, if you're not angry, then you're purposefully pretending to be angry. So much so that many of your posts got deleted.

>>3570168
>>3570380
>>3570449
>>3570450

And you've been pretending to be angry and upset to "test" us on how we would deal with someone with "difficult emotions." That's exactly what you said.

So you are either actually a person with serious mental problems, or you are playing the part very well for us for no reason that makes good sense. You're either mentally ill, or an absolute asshole. At this point I don't even care which it is.

>>3576978
how are you quoting deleted posts friend?

am I arguing with a silly janitor? did you memorize the post numbers? I'm not sure which is more disappointing.

>>3570168
You are correct, this is the one post when I was actually angry.

But what is the reason I'm angry?

I'm angry because there are people who are making themselves feel bad about something that's designed to be fun, because they feel too strongly about it, because they get insecure about it, because they get stressed out about it, because they have stress in their lives that stops them from just enjoying it, because I see them struggling to simply like something.

I'm angry that they're making themselves feel bad, that they're hurting themselves. Yes I am angry at them, but I'm also angry FOR them.

I don't care if it reflects badly on me, I want them to take a step back and look at it. Look at this argument, and think twice the next time they get upset and argue like this when there isn't any benefit, when it isn't worth arguing over, when they realize that you can't win an argument with yourself.

When I say things that make you feel, it's because in your heart there's an element of truth that you can't fight against. You can't fight against your own heart.

You can only learn to love and accept yourself and forgive yourself for being flawed.

>>3577020
>how are you quoting deleted posts friend?
Not the anon you've been quoting but holly hell.
Just go back to twatter or 9fag or whatever hole you crawled from.

>>3577020
>how are you quoting deleted posts friend?
>am I arguing with a silly janitor?
>did you memorize the post numbers?
Not the anon you've asked but holly hell.
Just go back to twatter or 9fag or whatever hole you crawled from.

>>3576814
>itt

>>3577081
I've never used social media.

>>3575598
>Donpachi is easier outside of Japan, it also gives you a fuckton of bombs in the US version
>>3573168

>>3577020
>how are you quoting deleted posts friend?

Because those were replies made to me and I've been paying attention to the thread and the inflammatory bullshit you've been posting.

Which is why it's impossible to then take you seriously when you then go on with this word salad about how really you're just looking out for the poor insecure little guy.

It's all just pure garbage and lies. You keep changing your story and then deleting posts that conflict with the story you're trying so hard to spin. You have been actively doing nothing but derailing and shitposting and are now trying to blame it on everyone else. And why? Because really, this was all a TEST! You've been TESTING us and we FAILED!

Nope. Sorry, that doesn't fly at all. Everyone can see what you're doing. A gutter trash troll with nothing better to do at all than try to cause shit storms.

>>3578096
>Because those were replies made to me and I've been paying attention to the thread and the inflammatory bullshit you've been posting.
Did you have to type out each number after looking them up in your own posts?

>>3578096
I've also not deleted any posts.

I've also been doing the same thing from the beginning, which is is just poking at your insecurities, as a joke, to test your character, the you who can't take a joke, correcting you over and over, so that you can realize, that you, are a joke.

>>3578195
No, they're still there in replies I made to you.

>>3578201
>which is is just poking at your insecurities
You haven't done that though, I don't even have any insecurities to talk about. If you follow back to where this all started (because apparently remembering a few days ago is odd..), I only even really like a couple of shmups and was happy to be talking to someone else on the board who actually likes Gradius V.

But then I got up the next morning and you'd turned someone replying to your comment about analog (which you have now said was meant as bait in the first place) and then turned the entire thread into shitposting.

And then each time I've come back since, that's all it's been. You acting like an arrogant ass and then blaming people for responding to it. Complaining that everyone is against you and the whole thread is full of assholes.

At that point you either deleted a bunch of your own posts, or they were deleted by the mod because of obvious trolling.

Then you turn 360 and are now pretending it was all a test and/or a joke and that we failed miserably and should be ashamed of ourselves... I've never seen anyone actually do this, >>3570258 until now. It's surreal. You're fucked up, dude.

>>3578248
The things is I actually don't like Gradius V that much.

I want to like it but it's too long and a bit boring.

>>3578257
Ohh dear, yeah you're right. I thought you were this guy >>3568609 but I see now where you replied and I still thought it was him.

All this time I was going off the impression that because you had seemed like a sensible normal person before all this started. I assumed the talk about Gradius V in this post >>3568621 was also the fan just airing his gripes despite loving it.


Anyways, sorry for the mix-up. I do see it now. Turns out you were never reasonable and that post's purpose was to bait using an analog controller so you could shine a light on what a bunch of assholes these mean shmups fans are. Wow, just wow.

10/10 got me to reply I guess?

>>3578284
I was chasing after the light at the end of the tunnel where you can prove to be better than my expectations of you.

Of course it has eluded me yet again.

>>3578290
I have no idea what kind of expectations a person like you would have for me, but I can sincerely say that I'm glad I don't meet them. You are at best deeply mentally and emotionally unstable, worst is that you pretend to be for fun. Either way it's sub-human.

>>3578293
Why are you filled with so much hate? Who hurt you?

>>3578293
Don't talk with the retards, or they'll shit themselves and drown the thread in feces.

>>3567942
Yes. I've played every Metal Slug, and it takes a lot of time and effort to master each one of them. Why not just grab an emulator and play on your PC? When my PSP died I did just that.

Where my niggas at? I'm itching at the 1st Level of XX. Which route is better? Forwards or down?

>>3578507
Don't mistake my calling you out on your trolling for hate. I'm not filled with any kind of hatred, not even for you. I think you're an asshole and very likely mentally ill on some level (I don't believe all of this was an act). But I just think you should get help and stop using 4chan as your emotional dumping ground.

>>3579367
Where does Metal Slug sit in terms of difficulty compared to your average bullet hell? I loved MS3.

>>3576770
Knowing about the tiny hit boxes makes these games seem a lot more reasonable than videos would make it seem. It's so interesting that even though hori and vert shmups seem so similar they're actually very different.

>>3580057
on a scale of bacon to banana
it's about a waffle

>>3580142
Bacon and banana would be good with waffles.

>>3580057
I think its fairly simple game.
For bigger part is about not charging forward headfirst.
Just take your time and dont risk.

Shmups often scroll forward and cover the whole screen in bullets, first level is often a breez but later it gets straight impossible not to die.
There are people who can 1cc those games but in most cases it takes shitton of practice and at least 6 months of time.

>>3580057
Metal Slug 1 is probably comparable to a 1-All of Dodonpachi

Metal Slug 3 looks comparable to something like Mars Matrix

>>3579916
>But I just think you should get help and stop using 4chan as your emotional dumping ground.
I think if people actually did this this site wouldn't be around.

>>3580183
>For bigger part is about not charging forward headfirst.
>Just take your time and dont risk.
that's what i find hard to do becouse i get bored
>Shmups often scroll forward
that's what i like about them. not saying i'm some hardcore shit, it's just easier when the game takes control of the pacing. shmups kinda remind me of rail shooters(which i like a lot), only much harder and complex.
>at least 6 months of time.
that's 180 hours if you play for an hour a day. i wouldn't say it's the minimum amount of time you need, it can take less than 20 hours if you are experienced and the game is easy.

>>3580254
4chan is as 4chan does. That guy was some next level retardation though.

>>3580254
People like you need to leave.

>>3580057
Sorry for late reply. MS3 is great because of the varied level design and enemies. If I recall there is a SHMUP section where Marco goes to space. As for the bosses, watch the bullets, and experiment with the boss hitboxes. Saved me a few times. XX is what I'm playing right now though, and everyone has a special action and attack. Try it out.

>>3581230
Ohh yeah I've played a lot of Metal Slug, mostly 3. I was wondering how the series in general compares to average bullet hells.

>>3581817
Not bad. Call it a slightly nicer cousin. Most of the times its very linear, with one or two branching paths that present differing challenges. Mechanics are slightly harder here. Jumping is a bitch to master, there are no easy quick solutions, reflex is as important as memory. That's it.

>>3581881
What is jumping in a bullet hell? Sorry if that's a stupid question.

>>3581901
Sorry mate, we must have mixed up. I meant that Metal Slug jumping is very risky, since you can't change facing and killing takes a second more and such. Relying on vehicles is a bad way to get good at the game, and I suggest learning the paths and hitboxes of bullets.

You'd have better luck asking SHMUP enthusiasts who also MS in their downtime for help.

>>3581907
Ahh yeah that makes sense.

>You'd have better luck asking SHMUP enthusiasts who also MS in their downtime for help.

That's what I thought I was doing, lol. It's all good!