/vr/ - Retro Games

>>351297
I could never get into Build engine mapping. Shit is waaay too complicated for me.

But I do make some Doom maps from time to time.

>>351305

But build engine mapping is like 50 times less complex than doom mapping...

Eh, here's my first map that I'm slowly working on, just to practice the mechanics.

I wouldn't mind making a full wad someday.

>>351356

Lookin good so far. I appreciate the lighter rim around the lava pool, that's a neat touch.

From an old map of mine.

I remember Ikka Keranen's Quake 1 maps being absolutely godly

>>351362
Thanks! I thought it looked nice, have another.

Wow somebody remembers ikka by name?

+1 board legitness to /vr/

The best maps are for Quake, people. Get over the doom obsession!

>>351390
>The best maps are for Quake, people

Oh ho ho. You know not of what you speak.

From "Tremor", one of my favorite wads.

>>351401
Fuck, Duke maps really looked nice when detailed. I wish I could map in build.

>>351418

It's much much easier than Doom. BUILD has a realtime 3D mode that looks identical to ingame where part of the editing is done. Lots of good tutorials and guides for it online.

>>351401

It's the truth and honestly the fake doom fandom bullshit on here is pissing me off

Everyone acts like it's only okay to like doom. But map design gets more complex by a level of magnitude in quake, and not only that, Quake has the best stock levels and user-created levels in FPS history. Bar none. There is really no argument. You can't have vertical movement in doom maps...How far can you really take a doom map? There are huge limitations to what the engine can do.

Why is there such Doom fandom but so little for Quake? I really imagine it's due to the proliferation of stuff like the Doom comic that Quake never had...

>>351340
Not him. But Doom Builder 2 is amazing. It makes everything a bliss to work. Any build engine editor close to it? Would love to have access to some better architecture then the Doom Engine allows.

That and doom modding has a lot more tutorials.

>>351456
>Would love to have access to some better architecture then the Doom Engine allows.

Then map for quake god damnit! The build engine allows less complicated architecture than the doom engine

>>351453

Oh, no doubt. Quake > Doom. What I'm saying is that Build > Quake. It has enough sprite and room over room trickery that you don't lose anything in terms of 3d level design and you can crank the detail much further before the machine begins to struggle since at it's heart it's still a 2.5d engine. There's a lot of stuff like trains (and other moving sectors) scripted events like complex explosions or crashing vehicles, stuff that's just not provided for in the Quake engine.

>>351456
>Any build engine editor close to it?

Mapster32.

>>351461
I still want to keep the 2D models though.

That and I've done plenty of mapping for GoldSrc(which is the Quake engine technically) and I'm a bit bored of it.
>>351473
Used that a bit playing around. It was quite buggy from what I remember.

>>351479
>Used that a bit playing around. It was quite buggy from what I remember.

It's gotten vastly better since then and is basically the only game in town for high level BUILD editing.

>>351469
>It has enough sprite and room over room trickery that you don't lose anything in terms of 3d level design

Nope, that's just patently untrue. Please don't forget moving brushes, either.

>>351484
Ah. I'm about to download it again.

>>351486
>Nope, that's just patently untrue.

OP's pic demonstrates otherwise.

>Please don't forget moving brushes, either.

That can't turn? Compared to multi car trains that can stop at designated points and trigger opening doors?

>>351491

OP's pic demonstrates there are some tricks but you cannot authentically create the same type of areas the Quake engine can without choking the engine. That's just the reality of it. Why use tricks when you can just use the capabilities of what the engine can actually do?

>rotating trains

Fuck then map for half-life it's the same thing

>>351505
>OP's pic demonstrates there are some tricks but

No 'but', that's my point. A 3D engine is all tricks, it's not somehow less valid so long as it creates the same effect.

>you cannot authentically create the same type of areas the Quake engine can without choking the engine. That's just the reality of it.

Actually Duke's engine now has true stacked sector capability, so if you want truly 3D structures you can have them.

>Why use tricks when you can just use the capabilities of what the engine can actually do?

Why not use the engine that allows for vastly more detailed, intricate levels with infinitely more interactivity?

What are some good resources for someone looking to get into mapping for either of these engines?

>>351453
>Everyone acts like it's only okay to like doom.

What? When some shitcock comes into Doom threads and go "Quake/Marathon is better", who then gets pissed when people tell him to go make his own thread, that's just as bad as the other way around.


>Why is there such Doom fandom but so little for Quake?

Probably because it was simply more popular.
Doom also had more consistent themes. It's no secret that Quake is a cobble-job.
As much as I like the aesthetics of Quake, Doom just had a much more appealing style to me in every single way, faster pace, more monsters, the music, the color, the atmosphere.

>How far can you really take a doom map? There are huge limitations to what the engine can do.

Yes! Exactly! Limitations! That's part of what makes it so wonderfully interesting, to see what people can do with the engine, it always makes my heart skip a beat when I see some genial architecture that in some way breaks the limitations of the engine.

Or, for plain visuals alone, check out Crucified Dreams, the mapping is nothing short of beautiful.

>I really imagine it's due to the proliferation of stuff like the Doom comic that Quake never had...
Really? The fucking Doom Comic is your conclusion? If anything it only provided the community with some fun catchphrases.

What set off it's popularity is the same as most early Id games, shareware.

They put out the shareware aggressively, handed out as many as they could "sell them for 5, 10, 15, 20 dollars, give them away, we don't care, just get them out there," they put it up online for anyone to grab, gave them to magazines, their advertisement was largely word of mouth, giving people a good sample of their product, that they could pass around like a bong, they encouraged people to share it any way they wanted. Quake was similar, but not fully...

If you're really interested in Quake, the first three games are covered pretty extensively in Masters Of Doom, along with Wolfenstein and Keen.

>>351453
>the fake doom fandom bullshit

What does that even mean? We're only pretending to like Doom?

>>355595
This. I always love new shit like this that takes place in unique environments.

>>355595

>>351305
but even the default map editor that comes with Build games is just like walking around the level (in the same engine) while you build it...

>>352730

That's just crazy impressive.

>>355637

>>355595

As cool as that looks, compare it to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I93W9owAWU

>>357110
build engine looks cool honestly but I feel like it'd be harder to get into than Doombuilder was.

>>357110
That looks like a mediocre 3D game, rather than an awesome 2.5D game.

It's in the uncanny valley of FPS.

>>357110

Makes me want to get back into Doom.

>>357345

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_LbJWq1whE

If you like Doom but say you don't like this, you're a hypocrite.

I would kill to get my hands on some urban textures to build upon the dorner game, or even something a little more politically offensive just for kicks.

I was thinking of making a game with Build.

How hard would that be?

>>357481
What the hell does WGR2 have to do with Polymer?

off-topic but what is ken silverman up to lately? it seems like after releasing the source code for the build engine, he fell off the face of the earth.

>>357110
>Duke3D
>modelpack

The reason I like Duke3D so much (aside from the gameplay), is it's pixel graphics. I love sprites.

>>360942
>Ken Silverman
Holy shit, I had forgotten about that dude entirely.

>>355637
>Fallout themed wad
I NEED IT NOW

>>360942
Mostly voxels.
http://advsys.net/ken/

>>362360

Yep, these games lose all their charm with 3D models. Especially with ugly low poly ones made by shitty modders.