/vr/ - Retro Games

Wakka

>>3536632
The last thread is still at page 6. Wait until it dies.

Threadly reminder: Never fall for the scart meme.

>>3536887
RF modulator is the only true answer. Set on channel 3. Anything else is autism.

>>3536887
This. All consoles came with composite in Japan, and the games were designed with that in mind.

>>3536906
yes, wanting a picture that look better is pure autism, indeed

>>3536921
Then how come they sold official scart cables in Nippon. explain that mister smarty pants?

>>3536929
fuck off cunt

>>3536939
JP21, not SCART.

>>3536906
RIP your eyeballs

>>3536958
This game is painfully bad.

>>3536939
well to appease austists, autists are a large market in japan land, and are the reason every thing bad happens, like everywhere else in the world, autist autist autist autist

>>3536969
>>3536969
it is, but people here love treasure to the point of being delusional and force themselves to "like" it just because it's a treasure game.

>>3536972
Treasure might be the most overrated meme in retro game culture. They're a totally fine mid-tier third party developer that's no longer with us. They weren't some collection of genius innovators or brilliant designers. They made some bad games and some okay games. It's really that simple.

>>3536965
I'd rather play rf on a tube than 480i on anything.

>>3536970
I wonder if sitting to close to the TV also causes the TISM from the nuclear radiation. Maybe mom was really right about sitting to close to the TV.

>>3537006
sorry mom. TOO* close

>>3536987
Opinions are fine but if you look at games like Alien Soldier on the Genesis or Sin and Punishment on n64 it becomes pretty clear that Treasure had some of the top-tier devs from that time. It doesn't matter if you don't even like the games, from a technical standpoint they're very impressive.

>>3536972
Shake shake

>Flyback transformer blew on my WEGA
>unfixable convergence issues on my trinitron
>most people have thrown out their CRT's at this point

FML

>>3537061
dont worry anon. crts are not perfect. a lot of mine are dying as well.

Does a PSP 3000 with component cables output PSX titles at 240p?

>>3537076
Its shit. there is a black box around it.

>>3537086
That's for PSP games.

>>3536887
You know I really wanted to get into PVMs, scart and all that shit but jesus christ I missed the fucking boat. Everything is way too expensive! I just use a consumer Trinitron with composite or s-video when I can.

>>3537168
that setup is simple, clean and ideal really. rgb/scart/pvms/bnc are a huge pain in the ass and are not much better than s-video. My advice if you want RGB is to get a cheap jamma arcade machine off craigslist. I see lots of arcade cabs for $200 and they only do rgb.

>>3537197
Yeah I actually use it frequently (not just for pictures!) and not just for games either, and I have an old receiver, hooking up a PVM would be a huge pain in the ass, not to mention really tiny with how I have it set up. All that money I paid for quality would just go to waste.

I got a mitsubishi megaview not too long ago, which was a nice size, but there was no audio out like consumer trinitrons have for my receiver, so I'd have to get a switcher work around. Also I'm not even sure how much better the picture looked compared to the consumer trinitron. Of course I was only comparing with s-video since I didn't buy cables yet, but shouldn't the megaview look better still since its a professional monitor? I ended up letting go of it instead of hoarding it to some guy and he was pretty happy.

>>3537232
From what I have noticed with my broken pvm and xm29 presentation/professional monitors are equal with consumer tvs at composite and s-video. They might even look "worse" because of the high line count making the scanlines huge. Also consumer tvs are usually calibrated differently for consumers. On a pro monitor you would have to fiddle with the colors and white balance. I mean I still love my xm29 for the multisync abilities but its not perfect and also (i might be mistaken) it only has a trap filter for composite which is shit. All consumer tvs have a trap filter and a comb filter for composite.

>>3537002
>implying RF can't be 480i

>>3537232
Presentation monitors like the megaview are wanted more for their size and multiformat ability than for their tube sharpness.

>>3537076
Yes. Image is nice and sharp, but perhaps a slight bit desaturated in comparison to PS2 component.

>>3537197
>rgb/scart/pvms/bnc are a huge pain in the ass and are not much better than s-video
I own two consumer Trinitrons, both have SCART inputs and composite but no s-video. How is it huge pain when RGB looks so much better?

It would be neat to have some sort of database with every Trinitron model so people can just look up the info.

I still cant find out what my old one was. ive never seen any pictures of it online and idk the model number but it was a silver 13" with mono speaker, composite and RF inputs a remote. It was from the 90's

http://www.bretl.com/tvarticles/documents/TVGuide1966BuyersGuide.pdf

>A E S T H E T I C

>>3536906
PALfaggot? Not on my watch.

>>3536928
Why is /vr/ so gullible?

>>3537630
Because most CRTs don't have SCART inputs

>>3537757
Most are listed and compared on Wikipedia

>>3537805
Why is everything that gooks produce a soulless imitation of something western?

>>3537916
It entirely depends where in the world you are.

Toshibro here

>>3537757
That'd be a terribly large list.

Something with at least semi-common models, done up in a google docs page or similar would be nice though. Have supported and number of inputs listed, along with possible little tidbits/quirks people have noticed are a trend with them.

Would probably be smart to include non-Sony CRTs as well, for those who either can't find any in their area or prefer shadow masks.

>>3537919
That's a decent list of US-released FD/WEGA models, but is by no means comprehensive nor is it really able to quickly convey whether it'd be decent for retro-gaming to someone without at least a little bit of knowledge on the subject.

This took forever to render: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP4cHhDfpVw

>>3537975
Nice, Toshiba are the best

>>3537975

Currently playing a bunch of ps1 games on my ps2 connected by composite. How much will rgb scart cables improve the picture? Its a 21" flatscreen crt

>>3538262
About this much.

>>3538262
>on my ps2
>flatscreen CRT
get component cables, not rgb, unless you plan to upgrade your setup

>>3536972
>>3536969
This game is fucking brilliant. The shaking mechanic fun to work with and solve puzzles with, the level design and visual work are so much fun, and the built in speed running aspect is what makes the game for me. My all time favorite platformer because 100%ing it is so god damned fun.

>>3537972
Sharp made some really nice retro crts. They also had a strong partnership with nintendo. Pic related is sex.

>>3538337
I dont think this tv supports component. Unless a scart adaptor will work?

>>3538309
One on the left looks better

>>3536632
Recently snagged a Trinitron KV-13FM12 for 8 bucks and it's absolutely gorgeous. I have the option of getting Trinitron KV-32S42 for 30 dollars though. It's a huge 140 pound beast. Should I bite?

How much of a bad time will I have if I use hmdi to scart on an emulator? Is there a side by side comparison anywhere?

>>3537912
Dunno. You tell me.

>>3538491
You gotta be squidding.

>>3538776
The palette is less painfully contrasting and composite covers up that pixelated mess

>>3538791
You know, you don't see pixels when you output it through a CRT.

>>3538507
I have a Trinitron 32 inch but it's model number bit different. Is that one also a widescreen hdtv widescreen? I'm trying to sell mine now. And trust me if it's a 32 inch TV it is way more than 140 pounds. Mine weighs at least 300-400lbs

>>3538904
You're half right, it is over 140. Pic related

That said, I've never heard of a 32 incher weighing anything as much as you said. Even a BVM-D32E1WU is "only" 206lb and those things are built like brick shithouses...

>>3538965
Pic I meant to post

>>3536660
god that looks fucking good. How do I make retro games looks that bright and clean at home? Something about native resolution or RGB cables? Or do cabinet monitors just always look better?

What is the best way to clean the glass on a CRT?

I picked up a CRT that was left outside for who knows how many days and I would like to clean off the residue on the screen without causing micro-scratches or dissolving any coatings it may have.

>>3539104
Protip: That picture is not of a CRT

It's clearly a fixed pixel display

>>3539109
You won't scratch the coating unless you go at it with steel wool or something or the glass has very hard abrasive dust on it already.

I'd start with a microfibre cloth damped with water to gently remove grime then a 20% distilled vinegar solution to finish to a streakless shine.

>>3539109
Just warm soapy water and paper towels. No harsh abrasive rags or chemicals necessary

>>3538463
Post model # of tv and we'll figure out the ideal setup

>tfw CRT shaders running at high resolution look better than real CRTs

>>3539190
You can do better than that if you display 4K or higher

>>3539190
Yes well, aperture grilles brightness doesnt fade off on the sides like it does in that image, the devs who make those shaders just base it on what they think, or what they see in photos

Ive only seen that level of fading on worn out slot mask TVs

CRTs can not accurately be capture with cameras either

ie those devs need to have a decent CRT to make those shaders accurately

So I'm acting like a teenage girl planning out my dream apartment. I want to someday play games through MAME and emulators on a CRT. I want to play mostly NES, SNES, and Namco arcade games. Would I be happier with one of those "pro" broadcast monitors (keeping in mind I'll be trying to display 240p in all its bright, scanline-y goodness), or an arcade cabinet monitor?

I'm a big believer in bright, pretty colors, if that changes the answer at all. Like if it were possible to display NES games on a Tempest cabinet monitor, I'd be in heaven, but I know there isn't hardware to do that.

>>3539104
>>3539120
>Protip: That picture is not of a CRT
>It's clearly a fixed pixel display
>clearly
Just a bit blurry, taken the same day as pic related.
Excuse the portrait view, was too big to post otherwise; no editing apps on my phone.

>>3539298
Cool monitor.
A shame that you fell for the scart meme.

>>3539314
It worked well. I made most of my cables so it wasn't expensive.

Ditched the SCART switches for a big ass 16x8 BNC switch.

>>3539314
Fuck off.

>>3539339
Be nice. This is an inclusive thread where everyone is welcome.

>>3539298
>clearly fixed pixel
>gorgeous black levels
>LCD with those black levels

this thread is sad

>>3539345
Its not
http://www.strawpoll.me/11119949/r
those 7 arent welcome here

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-LOT-OF-4-CRT-TELEVISIONS-VARIOUS-MAKES-MODELS-PICK-UP-ONLY-/391576813050

If anyone lives in NY
save this Sharp CRT
just look at that aesthetic

>>3539231
>Ive only seen that level of fading on worn out slot mask TVs
Vignetting like that should be fixable by adjusting the yoke so that the beam can actually hit those areas.

Can I force ntsc video using swiss on a PAL gamecube? Pretty much just for game boy player GBI at 240p - the PAL console apparently outputs rgb without the digital port. I assume that if this was a solution above s-video I would have heard about it before

>>3539371
dang. I'd watch bill nye on that

>>3539453
People on neo-geo were talking about doing that. Can't remember if anyone actually ever cared to report back with whether it actually worked or not.

I don't think you should have any issue doing it, but I want to say GBI already forces it's own refresh regardless of PAL or NTSC, and that the main difference may be in the actual resolution used(288p vs 240p). Not really sure how that'd affect the window boxing either, for that matter.

>>3539486
sounds like maybe more hassle than it's worth. I'm hoping that gcvideo modder makes good on his idea to make and sell that plug and play component cable next year, even if the digital port connector is some 3D printed crap. It will sell gangbusters

>>3539190
Umm no
CRT shaders are objectively shit

>>3539231
>CRTs can not accurately be capture with cameras either

You are so wrong and idiotic that it hurts.

>>3539538
He's not wrong
Camera's don't do CRT's justice

>>3539365
I was thinking plasma actually.

My Pioneer Kuro looks a lot like that to be fair.

Should scanlines still be seen from a distance? I pulled out a small LG CRT from 2001~ and I can barely even see them when I put my face on the TV (they almost seem vertical to me).

Another thing, I haven't played a movie on a CRT on almost 10 years now, so I just tried some DVD/low resolution ones, and it seems to look better than on my beloved HDTV via HDMI running MPV with sharpen filters and such. What gives?

Sample: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arOG2_QG4ls

>>3539812
You'll have a low-tvl tube in that set so no horizontal scanlines for you.

The vertical breaks will be the (slot?) mask showing. Not sure what technology Lucky Goldstar used but it's unlikely to be aperture grille.

>>3539812
You need a larger CRT.

Consumer 13" monitors the difference between 240p and 480i is almost indistinguishable

>>3539298
>missing that front bezel
:/

Question for everyone. My cat enjoys reaching new heights and recently she's been jumping on top of my 20 inch BVM. I lay a sheet on top of the BVM when not in use so her hair doesn't fall in through the vents. She's fairly light on her feet so she's not bumping the monitor in a terrible shaking way. I know the whole "these monitors were stacked in the studios" shpeal but I'm just curious if the odd shape and weight of a cat could affect the monitor.

>>3539827
>>3539824
Oh well. I had a big heavy 32'' Sony one that I used for years, late 90s model I believe. Great stuff, but my parents sold it at some point. Wouldn't want it anymore anyhow, definitely staying with one HDTV for all purposes. I only pulled out the CRT because I was messing with shaders on RA the other day and I wanted to pick up a real thing to try to see how similar they were, and maybe replicate the effect on RA. I guess this one won't do it for that, but they both definitely look better with all this color bleeding and other quips of old technology. Couldn't believe it. I honestly remember that all these games looked as sharp on CRTs as they do on monitors.

By the way, the TV has a built-in Space Invaders-ish game, I think it's really cool... I wonder how many CRTs included them. Too bad these will be lost in time.

>>3539872
Are you serious? I've used BVMs as makeshift stepladders. Your cat ain't gonna do shit...unless it's a morbidly obese Bengal Tiger.

Does anyone have an extron rgb interface, eg extron rgb 192?

What brand PC CRTs are worth it?

>>3539952
Yes

>>3539139
samsung uw21j10vd

>>3539952
Does it pass through resolutions and refresh rates properly? I want to use it to make the sync from various things work properly on my monitor

>>3539958
Sony, IBM, Sun, SGI, Lacie, Formac, Dell, Eizo, Iiyama are the ones I know are generally good. Maybe run specific models you find past us and we can give better advice.

>>3539961
>>3539967

>>3539969
>no mitsubishi

>>3539973
My bad.

That was a pretty obvious one...

>>3539967
In my experience, yes

What are you feeding in to it and which monitor is it outputting to?

What is the difference between CRT TV and PC CRT?

>>3540002
I'm going to feed it custom resolutions from a PC, and rgb from a ps2 at some point since it can handle RGsB. It looks like it can even seperate out the sync from component. My monitor is ikegami tm14-20r

Could anyone with a high TVL BVM/PVM get me a few nice shots of Final Fantasy 9?

>>3540014
I think PC CRT has more khz so less visible scanline but I'm really clueless.

>>3536632
>all Sony WEGA Trinitrons with component are too far to make time for a pickup
>closest one to me is a KV-35S66 but it's best input is S-Video

in what universe is it ok to just go for the KV-35S66?

>>3540014
PC CRT naturally displays in progressive simply because VGA/D-SUB.

>>3540185
Depends on what it costs and whether it taking up space doesn't matter. You'll probably still have fun with it. Sonys are the best of their day and even composite carries 95% of what makes a CRT good. Just have to weigh all that up with the trade-off of not taking close-up meme photos to impress nerds.

>>3540195
>cost
it's free
>space
got a place just for my future CRT

all I want in life at the moment is a display with 0ms and the thing is I had a SHARP CRT that had S-video but I was not content with the quality after seeing a friend's setup he had with component.

>>3540014
PC CRT is 480p+
CRT TV is 240p and 480i

>>3540101
I gots ya senpai

How do I know if my CRT supports RGB scart? I have a 32 inch Trinitron.

>>3540334
dude...

>>3540334
We'll need more information like a model number and what inputs it has.
Some pictures of the back should help.

>>3539872
>missing that front bezel
>:/

tell me about it, i'm so tempted to take a dremel to the 16:9 mask it came with...
but what if i want to watch widescreen stuff? i never will but what if???????

fucking autism i swear, speaking of which:

THREADLY REQUEST:
anyone have a 4:3 mask for a D20?
anyone have rack ears for the bkm-10r remote?

>>3540101
>Final Fantasy 9?
i'll try to remember next time i'm fiddling with my shit, haven't even powered on my bvm in months...

>>3540378
>>3540358
Trinitron KV-29c5E
My dudes, it has 2 scart inputs + composite.

>>3540410
Your TV should be able to support RGB through one of those SCART connections, given how that's usually that case with TVs like that.

>>3540417
Alright, thank you.

>>3540017
Presumably the custom resolutions are going to be 15khz or less? Also, the PS2 only outputs RGsB at 480p/31khz so you'll need to downscale for the Ikegami to accept it...

All in all I think you'd be better off with a VSC either in place of or in addition to the RGB, then you can just feed it a PC-standard 31khz signal and get 480i out. The interface can then optionally be used to double strike this to 240p for muh scanlines.

Sony Trinitron KD-34XBR970

>>3540332
Needs more Despair.

>>3540101
I'd post some, but the best I have is 600TVL.

>>3537978
Wow, that vid really puts things into perspective!

I have the kv-27hs420, and I liked it enough to track down a kv-34xbr960, which I'm currently using. The xbr is definitely better than the hs, and I kind of assumed it would be just as good as any NEC/Mitsu monitors for the most part.

Damn, was I wrong about that! Thanks for the upload.

>>3540323
Not really relevant to this particular thread, but...

This is not true of any late model CRT TV sets which came with HDMI and maybe DVI ports, too. Those can display at any resolution you choose the signal to be if you set it up as a second PC monitor by extending your desktop screen under adjust screen resolution in the control panel.

I typically use an hd crt through hdmi in 1980x1080 @ 30Hz for watching movies, anime, or playing pc games. While noticeably less sharp than a 1080p, it still looks fantastic. Can only notice that it is less distinct when viewed right next to a more modern HD flat screen with a static image that would allow time for comparison.

tl;dr just sayin'

>>3540147
>I think PC CRT has more khz so less visible scanline but I'm really clueless.
Scan rate has nothing to do with the visibility of scanlines. It is determined by the thickness and spacing of the active lines.

>>3540189
>PC CRT naturally displays in progressive simply because VGA/D-SUB.
A VGA connection is perfectly capable of displaying interlaced resolutions. PC CRTs don't display 480i/240p because their electronics are incapable of operating at the required frequency.

>>3540490
>This is not true of any late model CRT TV sets which came with HDMI and maybe DVI ports, too. Those can display at any resolution you choose the signal to be
Consumer CRTs are fixed scan. All consumer HDCRTs displays are 1080i only. All other resolutions are scaled.

>>3540501
*and possibly 540p since it is the same scan rate.

>>3540446
>not the superfinepitch tube
If you're going to get a wide-screen HD CRT, stick to the 960, 910, and 955.

>>3540501
Thank you for posting this. So much wrong info is passed around about HDCRTs. I picked up a KD-30xs955 mainly for 480p consoles and input lag was fucking horrendous for any signal that wasn't 1080i.

Even then you have to enable a pass-thru setting in the service menu to disable picture processing for 1080i.

>>3540501
>>3540505

I was wondering about this, but have no way of testing it. Something for me to look into.

All I know is that I can literally go into the NVIDIA control panel and choose literally any resolution I desire. Even something like 1768x1014. Which I was using until I figured out how to enter the CRT's service menu and fix the overscan problem it had.

>>3540465
I'm sure I don't have to mention that the HS420 in the video isn't being shown in as nice of a light(literally) as the Megaview.

And you need to remember, not only will the NECs and Mitsus outdo Sony's HD sets in terms of resolution, you're also not getting any scaling: Resolution in is resolution out.

>>3540501
>>3540505
Sonys will run at 480p as well, under certain conditions, but you still get some processing delay regardless.

>>3540541
I wanted to mention that I have never experienced any input lag.

I have experienced tearing though, but only in the middle of the screen. I have not yet been able to pinpoint the exact cause because of how infrequently it happens.

>>3540185
>>all Sony WEGA Trinitrons with component are too far to make time for a pickup
>>closest one to me is a KV-35S66 but it's best input is S-Video

Where do you live?
My area (Vancouver) has WEGAs everywhere but curved Trinitrons are scarce.

>>3540563
>never experienced any input lag
Your subjective account doesn't mean much. Do you have a PC CRT that you can duplicate the display to and do a real lag test with?

>>3540576
No, and this is part of my problem. I tried looking up ways to test this, but there are so many unrelated search result to sift through.

Lots of misinformation, too. So I apologize if I have contributed to that.

>>3540537
>Even then you have to enable a pass-thru setting in the service menu to disable picture processing for 1080i.
The component inputs don't seem to suffer from this problem.
>>3540541
>I was wondering about this, but have no way of testing it. Something for me to look into.
You can confirm what is happening if you have a multimeter with a frequency setting. Just place one of the probes in the general area of the flyback to see what frequency it is scanning at.

>>3540560
>Sonys will run at 480p as well
When I feed my 955 a 480p signal I end up with a scan rate of ~33.7kHz no matter what I do.

How JUST is having a 50hz crt tv?

>>3540595
I'm just going by what I've read. I haven't and probably wouldn't go poking around the flyback unnecessarily personally. Don't believe I have such a multimeter anyway.

It may be 480p in a 540p window, zoomed to fill out the screen.

Also, the service menu tweak only affects HDMI input.

>>3540615
> I haven't and probably wouldn't go poking around the flyback unnecessarily personally
why are you here?
>480p in a 540p window, zoomed to fill out the screen.
I assure you, you dont want that, also zoom is a form of scaling

>>3540597
Enjoy your extra black lines of pixels

>>3540667
One can be a bit of a chicken shit and still enjoy CRTs. That and the fact of most of the stuff I have to test electronics with is not really up to spec to deal with a CRT anyway. Even if my multimeter had a way to test for frequency, I'll be damned if I'm going to hold the small ass test probe against the flyback while it's running. A little clip to hold it there wouldn't bother me at all.

I don't use my HS420 often enough to really go fiddling around inside of it anyway.

I'm aware scaling is unwanted, I'm only speaking on how it may be done. Additionally, I'm saying as in the raster is stretched to hide the unused portions of video rather than stretching 480p up to 540p. That really would be silly.

>>3536906
RF is just harder to setup since it requires channels and shit.

>>3540615
>I'm just going by what I've read. I haven't and probably wouldn't go poking around the flyback unnecessarily personally. Don't believe I have such a multimeter anyway.
You don't have to get that close to the flyback. Heck, a flyback transformer spews so much EMI that you don't even have to remove the back cover to measure it's frequency.

>It may be 480p in a 540p window, zoomed to fill out the screen.
I suspect that this is what is happening as well. Except that the lack of scanlines leads me to believe that the picture is being converted to 1080i from 540p

.>>3540667
>I assure you, you dont want that, also zoom is a form of scaling
It's not the kind of zoom you are thinking of. It is enlarging the raster so that the black board is pushed into the overscan area. It's the same thing as adjusting the raster size on your PC CRT from the OSD.

>>3540727
I'd be fine with that, but still don't have the equipment to do so.

>except that the lack of scanlines leads me to believe that the picture is being converted to 1080i from 540p
I believe that's exactly what is being toggled when changing the DRC mode in the menu. Progressive being 540p, Interlaced being 1080i, and Cinemotion activating some sort of pulldown support.

Either that or Sony put together some sort of magical filter to get such a stable interlaced image when set to the former.

Saw a white triniton at a pawn shop for 25 dollars.
Thing was she said it was a monitor and not a TV.
Any way to tell these apart?

>>3540743
>I believe that's exactly what is being toggled when changing the DRC mode in the menu
I noticed no difference between DRC modes. Either it works differently on my set or it just doesn't produce noticeable scanlines.

>>3540751
Is VGA and possibly BNC the only means of connection.

>>3540751
>Thing was she said it was a monitor and not a TV.

Well what she probably meant was it has no built antenna to receive tv channels. Which isn't want you what from a console's monitor anyway

>>3540751
Does the model number begin KV? That's a TV. If it has an antenna input (RF) that's a TV.

Does it begin PVM, BVM, GDM or basically anything other than KV? That's a monitor.

>>3540743
The thing that confuses me most is that on my xbr, when I press display on the remote, it tells me that the input is 480i or 480p or 720p or 1080i depending on what device I am using to input signal. I am inclined to disbelieve it after reading further here. Especially because DRC is always set to interlaced and usually cannot be manually changed.

My hi-scan does not offer this display feature, but does allow for changing drc options at will.

Fucking... off to buy a multimeter, I guess!

>>3540812
>The thing that confuses me most is that on my xbr, when I press display on the remote, it tells me that the input is 480i or 480p or 720p or 1080i depending on what device I am using to input signal
It's just telling you what your source is. Output is always 1080i.

>>3540772
https://a.cuntflaps.me/hkhoo.mp4

>>3540849
Fascinating.

But where are the scanlines?

>>3538904
I doubt it, even though they feel like they do.

My huge oak console tv is 260lb and it is the heaviest set I have ever moved.

>>3540225
grab it and if it isnt what you need get rid of it when you find something better. any old tv is probably going to need a focus or service menu adjustment. I have been through 5 crts finding what I want in a tv and am about to replace one of the two I kept.

>>3541025
it's been fucking gone for over a month!

>>3540751
I think the white ones are black and white security monitors.

directly comparing a Sony PVM to an arcade monitor, which will be brightest? Will either one be more colorful (assuming I'm using RGB cables on both)?

>>3541529
>brightest
aperture grilles are the brightest
>color
not sure but I assume the PVM would have the most accurate colors

>>3541551
So if I want the best CRT experience playing games in 240p (MAME, SNES, etc) with glorious scanlines, I'd be best off with a big Trinitron mounted in a cabinet? Are there any benefits at all to using a legit cabinet monitor over a TV with an aperture grille?

Playing the English patched FM-enabled Phantasy Star on my Japanese master system. This game's pretty rough starting out...

This is on a JVC I'Art with the retrovision cables, my first time trying RGB/YPbPr on it and I'm pretty impressed. The Wii's component output is definitely lacking in comparison.

>>3541673
>JVC I'Art
Nice. I have an AV-27F734. What model is yours?

AV-27F702

Real happy with it, even though it has some funky geometry issues on the bottom right corner and text seems to jitter a little more excessively than usual towards the bottom.

Having a front facing s-video port is so nice.

>>3540998
they're running vertically instead of horizontally, if I'm seeing this right

I own the TV in this pic (it's not my pic tho), can't find the actual name of it for the life of me. Is it any good?

>>3541756
Oddly enough, the geometry issue doesn't seem as apparent when I de-fisheye these pics I'm taking with my gopro...

It was real craptastic before I fiddled with the service menu though.

>>3541781
That is not how scan lines work.

>>3537056
underated post

>>3541792
meh

>>3541806
You might need to adjust your yoke, although I wouldn't recommend it unless the defect is really bothersome. You might also want to check for bulging caps.

>>3541529 here

So I've been trying to answer my own question with some Googling, and I found this http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=120798.0

Everyone seems to be really worried about refresh rate, and I've never seen someone here worry about that. Are they being retarded arcade-philes?

Does 240p really look better in native resolution than upscaled to 480p? Does flicker rate matter at all?

>>3541901
Just seems to be those people who despise 480i ignoring the fact that like everyone there watched TV in 480i for years and no one whined until HD shit came out.

Yes 240p looks better when its not line doubled.
I personally wouldnt worry about the flicker. Arcade monitors are kind of like the middle ground between consumer CRTs and PVMs

I personally think a Trinitron TV in an arcade cab would be fantastic, but it wouldnt be the 'genuine arcade experience'

>>3540998
"Scanlines" are only a thing for 240p/288p. PC monitors may given something similar to them on 480p and the like, but that's just the minuscule gaps between the actual drawn scanlines, something I wouldn't expect a TV's gun to be able to manage.

That was a 480i signal being fed to it. Feeding it 240p and then setting it to Progressive gives an even more stable image.

This is a video of the whole screen with that, and the same game):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7TiR-2uO1g

Aand a related image from a different game.

>>3541578
>Are there any benefits at all to using a legit cabinet monitor over a TV with an aperture grille?
Directly compatible with actual arcade boards;
Being very barebones and as such relatively simple to repair should something go south.

The tubes used in arcade monitors aren't terribly special in older stuff, they're just bare bones chassis that are supposed to be easy to maintain, repair, and take a beating.

A PVM will look sharper and give more accurate colors (at least from a technical aspect) than an arcade monitor, but it may look sterile to some and outright wrong to others.

If you're looking to put just a standard Trinitron TV in a cabinet, it might not look as sterile, but it'll still look different than it originally did.

>>3541901
>>3541932
Their focus has to do with games that run at higher sync rates, like 24(Sega Model1/2/3) and 31khz(480p+)

Another issue may be stuff that runs at 53 or 55hz(R-Type and Mortal Kombat.

>>3541972
>sterile
what did he mean by this?

And is there any way to force an aperture grille PVM to look like the bottom-right in pic related (other than some niggotry like putting a filter over the screen to cover up every other line)? The bottom-right image is absolutely sexy.

And one last question, what would be the functional difference, outside of color, between using a Trinitron TV and a PVM (featuring Sony Trinitron technology)? I have a feeling the answer plays into my first question about sterility.

BTW, thanks for all the help so far.

>>3541993
"Too clean" "Too sharp"
Legitimate complaints for some people.

>And is there any way to force an aperture grille PVM to look like the bottom-right in pic related
Use an actual NES or anything else that outputs in 15khz and does 240p? Higher TVL PVMs and more specifically BVMs will given you a sharper picture and even thicker lines between each row of "pixels".

I actually don't seem to have many SMB photos taken, but here.

This is 240p from the Wii, over Component.

>>3542007
That image is porn for my autism. What're you playing it on? A BVM, I assume?

I haven't seen "TVL" before. What is it? And I thought "PVM" was just buzzword for "BVM minus some features, for poor people with rich-people taste".

>>3542019
>A BVM, I assume?
Not even. PVM-20M2MDU, a medical variant of the 20M2 and a 600TVL tube at that. Rather common all in all. Lower color palette consoles(NES/SMS/Genesis at times/GB/GBC/etc) give some crazy stupid contrast when it comes to scanlines.

>I haven't seen "TVL" before. What is it?
A measure of horizontal sharpness. "TV Lines" or "Lines of horizontal resolution". It comes down to how fine the phosphor pattern on the inside of the tube(the bits that actually light up to create the image on the screen) is, refered to as dot or stripe pitch depending on the tube. and how sharply the electron gun of the TV/Monitor can focus. Consumer sets tend to have tubes with higher dot pitches(and as such, a more coarse image).
To be blunt, it's how many alternating black and white lines the monitor can draw horizontally and still resolve each one of them separate from the other. The highest you're going to see if 800 on M4s, L4s, and L5s, and the lowest being 250 on some 5'' and 8'' models. Older stuff tends to be lower all in all, floating around 450-600 for the most part

Most BVMs, meaning the larger (14''+), aren't going to be below 800TVL or so no matter if they're from the 80s or 8 years ago. Even the 9'' models have 450TVL in their normal aspect ratio.
The highest you're going to see is 1000TVL, which is absolutely insane in terms of sharpness.

1/2

BVMs do tend to have a lot more features than PVMs when it comes to configuring and adjusting them, but that doesn't invalidate PVMs in being amazing monitors for gaming on.

>for poor people with rich-people taste
A lower end, 30 year old PVM sold on ebay a week ago for over $600. That was unexpected, but you're going to be dropping a decent chunk of change no matter which you go with.

2/2

>>3542061
thanks for all the info. So in the end, if I'm willing to spend $350-ish (not $500+ on a BVM), and I want a big, bright, colorful, scanline-y screen for up-close arcade-style gaming, am I better off hunting for a 20" PVM, or a 26 or 27" Trinitron? And this is for MAME with something like this https://www.ultimarc.com/avgainf.html

>>3542007
how are you getting 240p on the wii? trying to do the same right now but i dont think any emu but retroarch does it, and for some reason whenever i load a rom it goes to black screen

>>3542072
>https://www.ultimarc.com/avgainf.html
If you don't mind doing a bit of stuff on your own, you can get a better card for cheaper and get better results for less.
http://wavebeam.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-groovycube-diy-console-that-plays.html

PVM would give you a sharper and likely more vibrant picture than a consumer Trinitron, and would give you easy access to RGB which you'd need to make good use either the arcadeVGA or a crt_emudriver setup (linked above), assuming you're not in Europe or somewhere with SCART.

From my experience with them, I honestly wouldn't recommend the flat, silver Trinitrons for an arcade-y setup. Maybe one of the older, black body curved screen ones.

Depending on exactly HOW close up you plan to play, a 27'' Trinny may be a tad bit too large to play on, but that is somewhat up to personal taste.

>>3542081
Different emulators have an option for it in their video settings. FCEUX, SNES GX, Genesis Plus GX, and wiiMednafen all definitely support it. The former three need their video setting set to "Original", and Mednafen needs to be set to double-strike.

Retroarch is ever so fun to setup for certain systems on the Wii, and I really wouldn't suggest it outside of a bit of the arcade emulation that it can actually pull off, as well as GB/GBC/GBA emulation, and that one takes some specific settings to actually display correctly.

This, actually, is Retroarch emulating CPS2. Thankfully one of the systems that RA has a good default res for.

>>3542083
Right, so I have FCEUX on "Original", but I don't see any scanlines. I thought the purpose of this was that it would enable them, so why am I not seeing them? The video mode says "Automatic (Recommended)", and if I try to change it the other options are NTSC 480i, NTSC 480p, PAL 50Hz, and PAL 60Hz, so perhaps it's not 240p after all, even if I set rendering to "Original"?

Sorry, I'm not very knowledgeable at this.

>>3542098
Automatic -should- work. I'll go up and see what I have everything set to personally in a moment.

What TV/Monitor are you playing on?

>>3541807
>That's not how scanlines work
It is if the monitor has been TATEd...

>>3542108
I mentioned my TV some posts above >>3539812 and so it appears that it simply doesn't have scanlines. Follow up questions on this:

1. If my TV doesn't have scanlines because it's low-level (aka cheap), how come it's the high-end ones the ones that have scanlines? As I understand, scanlines exist because 240p needs to fit on 420p TVs, which means having to put horizontal lines in between "real" lines so that the content occupies the whole screen. To me that sounds like an undesirable thing to have, which confuses me because why would a high-end TV not "fix" that (as in, they have scanlines), but low-levels TV do?

2. Assuming what I know about the purpose of scanlines to be correct, what's going on with my TV? If the content is actually outputted at 240p, how come it fills the whole thing? Is it duplicating colored lines instead of adding black ones?

3. As I mentioned, I had a Sony 32'' TV many years ago. I loved that thing. I also do not remember it having scanlines. Is this probable? What are the chances of a Sony TV not having scanlines? Trying to see if it's my memory or I simply have never played with scanlines.

4. Given that I want to replicate what I have on this small CRT on a HDTV through shaders, do you know what I'd need? I know it has round corners, no scanlines, but what else should I imitate? How do I call these... uhmm... noticeable "RGB dots" that draw eveyrthing, so I can search for shaders that have them?

>>3542141
The "high-end TVs" you mentioned are not TVs at all, but rather monitors. You know, for monitoring the signal quality in a broadcast or media production environment. Most were designed for 480i display and are intended to separate the lines so they may be better evaluated for unwanted artefacts. If the lines were all mushed together as with consumer sets they would be useless for this purpose. The main driving force behind this separation of lines is the beam width / focus which is directly related to the TVL spec of the tube in use.

As an aside, a lot of the hate for 480i in the gaming community is down to the fact that line separation and flicker is greatly exaggerated on these monitors. On an SD consumer set it generally looks perfectly acceptable.

>>3542196
So you are saying that it's PVM and similar high-ends the ones that have scanlines, and not the majority of consumer TVs back then, right? I thought people were all over scanlines because of nostalgia, but if I got that part right, then nostalgia for what? Didn't most TV have all the lines mushed together?

>>3542242
You hit the nail on the head.

This fetishisation of scanlines is very much a modern invention. Neither good nor bad objectively speaking but nonetheless it seems to be what most people strive towards nowadays.

>>3542269
Oh wow, this explains a lot. Do you know if any games were made with scanlines in mind though? Like, they had an effect that took advantage or them or something? Probably not since it was not easily available to average consumers, but perhaps an arcade game? Arcade monitors had scanlines, right? Or is that another consequence of the fetishism?

>>3542058
Had to double take because I've taken pretty much the same photo off of mine

>>3542141
larger consumer sets tend to have more pronounced scanlines as well, your mileage may vary.

Here's an old 35" set, PS1, s-video.

Just got this sexy little KV-14LM1E this morning.
The picture is perfect. Even better than my other KV-25. This will be perfect for tate mode shooters. Couldn't be happier.

>>3540459
Sure lets see it

>>3542141
If you are running a tv that is capable of 480i/p at 480i/p you will not 'see' scanlines. At least in what way you expect too.

In most cases the 240p signal is leaving out large parts of the picture. That missing stuff is being replaced with black lines to make your 240p image fit the 480 screen (since there has to be SOMETHING there).

In very rare cases the pixels are quite literally larger. I won't go into detail, but the individual shit tossed at your faces is larger to fill the screen. Usually CRT tvs without scanlines are higher end, not lower.

>>3536632
Look dudes, I wouldn't mess with CRT's. Ghosts come through that shit. You think I'm foolin? Look at that pic.

>>3542196
>>3542141
Smaller set also have less defined scanlines and as such, a small set will have very vague if not non-existent scanlines.

>>3542279
>Arcade monitors had scanlines, right? Or is that another consequence of the fetishism?
Depends on the tube in question. The ones with larger tubes tend to have them to some extent at least.

>>3542513
>dat bowing

>>3542514
My thoughts exactly. Literally every single Blast City in there was like that.
All the non-Candy cabs were in decent enough condition, including an X-Men

Was certainly weird playing Battletoads on what was a Tetris GrandMaster at one point.

>>3542315
>>3542513
Again the appearance of scanlines is very much down to the TVL spec of the tube and the tighter beam spot this necessarily requires.

Whilst it is true to an extent that larger tubes generally have more pronounced scanlines this is only because they have the above mentioned attributes. Correlation rather than causation if you like.

For an extreme example there were 8K capable 5" monochrome CRTs which were used in film recorders in the pre-digital era of film and photography. These would have extreme scanlines if fed with pretty much any video resolution currently in widespread use (240p would be utterly ridiculous and 1080p would look like 240p does on a 1000 TVL BVM. Even 4k video would have 50/50 ratio of scanlines to blank raster).

>>3542513
>Smaller set also have less defined scanlines and as such, a small set will have very vague if not non-existent scanlines.
That's a good thing.

>>3542548
A small set having massive scanlines would be really annoying, that's for sure.

One thing i noticed is that larger CRT's tend to have larger geometry distortion. Some smaller FD Trinitron, or LG Flatron's have perfect geometry that rivals TFT's.

>>3539535
>objectively

>>3540014
They sync to different scan rates.

>>3540323
This isn't true because PC CRTs can display 240p with 120Hz vertical. Probably could go lower at 160Hz, but there's little point in doing that.

>>3542762
No one runs retro vidya at 120hz so yes it is true

>>3542780
Plenty of people run emulators at 120hz with black frame insertion, myself included.

>>3542832
>emulation
gtfo

besides, for all intents and purposes of an uneducated anon, PC CRTs do 480p

SD CRT= 15khz
PC CRT= 31khz

does that please your autism?

>>3542543
sauce on that 8k crt? That's not rear-projection?

>>3542932
They weren't for direct view but rather exposing high resolution images onto still or motion picture film.

http://www.promarketinc.com/pdf/agfaaltols.pdf

This is what I did for a living back in the mid to late 90s.

>>3542964
would it even be possible to modify one of those bastards to work as a small 4K CRT TV? Just how much would one of those things cost?

>>3542969
This gave me cancer.

>>3542969
Sure, so long as you didn't mind:

1) 6 frames per minute
2) a black and white picture
3) Had the necessary expertise to homebrew an interface between the video source and a suitable RIP to drive the image.

As I mentioned they were monochrome tubes which fired three successive images through red, green and blue filters to build up a full colour image. The total exposure time was 30 seconds for a 4K image.

>>3542969 #
Sure, so long as you didn't mind:

1) 6 frames per minute
2) a black and white picture
3) Had the necessary expertise to homebrew an interface between the video source and a suitable RIP to drive the imager.

As I mentioned they were monochrome tubes which fired three successive black and white shots through red, green and blue filters to build up a full colour end result. The total exposure time was 30 seconds for a 4K image.

You can pick one up for a few hundred nowadays. They're utterly obsolete .

>>3538353

fuck i had a tv just like this!!

>>3541708
The second one

>>3542543
both my 35" convex and my 20" flat are 450tvl and the scanlines on the 20" are almost non existent.

>>3542715
I've also found convex tubes tend to have much less geometry problems and slim tube flats tend to have the most. A lot is fixable via service menu bit if it has a vertical bow (the bottom of the screen usually) there is no fixing it without opening the chassis and adjusting hard parts or using mag strips.

>>3543097
here's a 2006 24" sd samsung,slim tube. and the vertical bow that plagues flat tubes I was talking about.

>>3537076
How does it compare to GO or TV?

Today I walked past a destroyed CRT marked "FST Stereo Monitor" with a tube made by Toshiba. I wonder whether it was good when it worked.

>>3543112
the brite and the go have the same video quality but you can't use a ds3 on a brite.

>>3543121
So you're plugging the component cables and playing it on the PSP?

>>3543298
Yes, it sucks for some games that require both shoulder buttons as 2 of them have to be mapped to directions on the analog stick.

>>3536632
Dat mitsu crt

>>3542072
I bought a bvm 1910 from this site: http://www.pixequip.com/product.aspx?id=359736

its a 1988 model, so no on screen programming, but it does look as good as my 1997 Olympus OEV203 (same as pvm-20m2mdu). Its very cool in that it has a slide out tray to adjust the various adjustments with potentiometers. Taking the sides off, it has quite a few cards inside, quite the rig. Comparing both, they both look great and I have a hard time telling any difference.

The company is in canada, and it was about $400 shipped to where I live in the US

>>3542393

>>3543479
just out of curiosity, since you've opened it up, how far back does the CRT itself go in the thing? Like, if I took off the case and rearranged some boards to put them more off to the side, how much space would I be saving depth-wise?

Does vertical/horizontal bowing and other geometry errors affect the accuracy of lightguns?

>>3543479
The bvm XX10 line is awesome. I hope I can get my hands on a 2010 someday

>>3540810
KV stands for kissless virgin right?

Anons were talking about a consumer tv list. I threw this together to gather data in some sort of searchable form.

Suggestions an feedback appreciated /vr/

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd3_OraDPRRN_OzQ4r_-CqoNPR9J0r2KtFrpV6iuXdxM3DDJg/viewform?usp=send_form

>>3543583
Killer Value

>>3543565
This is god awful for 240p

>>3542083
>If you don't mind doing a bit of stuff on your own, you can get a better card for cheaper and get better results for less.
>http://wavebeam.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-groovycube-diy-console-that-plays.html

This question is somewhat related to the ongoing conversation, but might honestly belong on /g/, so here goes: If my ultimate goal is to use one PC for both Oculus gaming in Dolphin, and 15kHz 240p CRT gaming in MAME, will I need two graphics cards with two separate drivers? With what I'm doing in mind, does that change the answer of whether the AVgainF card is better or the custom card setup used in GroovycubeDIY is best?

Everyone feel free to tell me to fuck off because this is the wrong board, if this is indeed the wrong board.

>>3543586
post this on shmups/neogeo/reddit etc

>>3543586
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA
we can start by adding every one of these

Since bowing came up, I was wondering if moving the larger and heavier sets while they're sideways could contribute to this? I had to use an appliance dolly to get a recent acquisition up a flight of stairs by myself. It... wasn't pretty.

Also, I couldn't find a corresponding setting to fix minor bowing along the top-left edge in the service menu. So I was wondering if such a thing would be possible. Generally speaking.

>>3543832
That list is my holy grail for craigslist searches.

>>3543890
Well those are all flat screens so =/

>>3543893
Yeah, but I'm pretty much a normie when it comes to this shit. Jes' ignant.

*puzzle bobble theme plays*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYd-PSRXo1o

i really wish cameras could capture the colors of a CRT correctly

un mas

>>3543965
>>3543971
>>3543974
Your TV hurts my eyes

>>3543980
thankfully, it's not a tv

>>3543980
>TV
That's the shadowmask equivalent to a 900/1000 line BVM.

>>3543985
so a 900/1000 line shadow mask?

Trinitrons arent exclusively measured in TVL

also if thats the 17 inch version like I think it is, then its 800 TVL

>>3543993
correct

>>3543893
Nothing wrong with flat screens

>>3543993
I am aware of that. I was just stating that it was the non-aperture grille equivalent to a top of the line BVM, and actually had it written that way at first.

This is just based on seeing photos of AG monitors, but it just looked a bit too sharp to only be 800. Or at least the Mega Man ones.

>>3543628
>not liking 240p Mode7

>>3544010
There's more black space than there is color.

>>3544020
No, there's not. Scanline to gap ratio is even on the dark colors, while bright colors are bloomed a bit.

itt

>>3544028
Someone is jelly that they don't have a BVM

>>3544036
>implying i dont

>>3544043
the bvm that gravity forgot

>>3543985
DTV-1700 uses aperture grille, and is 800 TVL

>>3544082
Well, I've certainly got egg on my face then.

>>3544113

>>3544147
This would imply I was aware of the specific model it was before posting.

I don't know a terribly large amount about JVC/Panasonic's offerings. A short google after you(or they) posted the model number set me straight quite quickly.

>>3544167
it's easy : JVC / Panasonic multiformats use george foreman grill

>>3543586
One thing you guys need to understand

Geometry varies intensely set to set

>>3544172
New, from Aperture Labs: Aperture Bar & Grill

>>3544194
It does but I have found that in general convex>deep flat>slim flat for average geometry accuracy.

>>3544215
Crowbar and Grill :)

>>3543971
>sPread
kek

>>3544239
MOAR!!!!1!!

>>3536969
Eh, it's not as bad as your taste.

I literally only come to these threads for gorgeous CRT webms. Where are muh webms?!?!

Is Free 20L5 guy gone for good?

>>3544307
Stop bringing it up faggot

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Sony-Trinitron-TV-/322282382952?hash=item4b0986e668:g:REEAAOSw0UdXtS7o


lol

>This is the Australian version so does not have a scart connection. See photos of TV.

>THIS TV DOES NOT PLAY GAMES AS THERE IS NO SCART CONNECTION

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MITSUBISHI-40-Tube-TV-TELEVISION-/191965077076?hash=item2cb2029e54:g:h60AAOSwlfxXF5WC

want it

>>3536906
>PAL letterboxing
Ew.

>>3544458
That's actually one of the few PAL conversions that use the expanded vertical size mode on the SNES. Most games will be even more letterboxed.

Does anyone know of a (straightforward) way to run Doom on a CRT TV in its "native" resolution? So like, 240p or the equivalent? As far as I know the Wii ports are 480i/480p only.

>>3544792
Get the Game Boy Advance port and play it though a GameCube Game Boy Player and use Game Boy Interface with a SD card reading GameCube memory card and boot up ULL mode, simple.

>>3544458
You can't handle those extra lines m8?

>>3544792
Doom's native is 480i
>>3544851
That wont be 240p tho
It will be letterboxed 160p

>>3545028
>It will be letterboxed 160p

Just like Miyamoto intended

https://youtu.be/OmhhDvncrFY
>sharp c-1 connected to the TV internally with RGB

what did he mean by this? the NES doesnt output RGB

>>3545117
Exactly what he said, the C-1 outputs an RGB signal internally. Unlike the NES which can only output it with modification

>>3545117
if it uses the same PPU as the famicom titler, it can be connected in RGB

>bought a PVM-20M4E last year for £20
>just sold it for £110

Little sad to see it go but I still have this little guy.

>>3545130
>this little guy
uhh, Akarin is a girl??

>>3545138
Who?

I don't see anyone there.

>>3545142
There is very clearly a midget version of smokerin on the table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPXKfGxeHIY

>>3545130
Damn thats a sexy monitor. How much'd you have to give for that?

>>3545185
ez

>>3545142
ah, I get it. funny.

>>3545213
Heh. Later on a friend bought this one for me too.

About to get a Sony Trinitron KX-14CP1. The only thing is the voltage is 220/240V, and I'm in the US. So is there anyway around this?

>>3545263
Voltage transformer, obviously.

>>3545265
O yeah I forgot to mention, the seller claims there is no way to adjust the voltage on it.

>>3545274
That's why I said voltage transformer. You plug this into your 120V and it will supply 220V to the unit.

>>3545194
Damn das cheap. Maybe i'll go looking for something similar

>>3544405
hell yeah 40" and removable speakers, I want one too.

>>3545263
If you own the house you can have an electrican make a 220 circuit. Its really just two 110v and a neutral.

>>3544851
ULL gives me black and white image on s-video, but LL works well enough.

>>3536632
what are the most quiet CRTs?

>>3545428
That's an interesting question. I'm sort of curious, too, is there any effective way to mute that high-pitched noise CRTs produce?

>>3545471
become middle-aged

>>3545495
how can i speed up the process?

>>3545507
drinking, smoking, drugs, stress

>>3545512
guess ill stop playing video games and get a life. thanks.

sharing is caring

>>3545674
couldn't you buy a universal remote with learning capability, and just have the universal remote "learn" the signal sent by the Sony remote to put the TV in service mode?

>>3545674
Just googled sony service menu and found a detailed write up for this on neogeo. There is a way to save the settings into the system memory. So the picture isnt completely correct.

>>3545124
The NES RGB mod is not merely a mod, its an entire separate board that overrides the original PPU

NES only outputs composite and RF period

>>3545674
press muting then enter on the oem remote to write to memory.

I am looking at the spec sheets for Sony Trinitrons.

The curved model says it has a Hi-black Trinitron tube.
The flat model just says FD Trinitron tube.
Does this mean that 90's curved Trinitrons have better black levels than more modern WEGA Trinitrons?
Do black levels on CRTs differ by brand, age of manufacture, or price?
Or do all CRTs have the same black levels?

Depends on the phosphor coating varies from model to model. I don't know about consumer CRTs but older PVMs have a much lighter colored phospher

>The curved model says it has a Hi-black Trinitron tube.
The Hi-Black tube was introduced around the mid-80s. It's a darkened front surface designed to improve black levels when ambient light is high. Look at some 70s and older CRTs, you'll see that they appear light grey when switched off.
>The flat model just says FD Trinitron tube.
Everything post-80s will incorporate this Hi-Black technology, they just didn't call it out as a "feature".
>Does this mean that 90's curved Trinitrons have better black levels than more modern WEGA Trinitrons?
Nope, the opposite is true for the above reasons. Tube technology kept improving until the very end of CRT production, it was the signal processing which took a step "backwards" and the only for by then obsolete 240p signals.
>Do black levels on CRTs differ by brand, age of manufacture, or price?
A little but if you're looking at Trinitrons newer is generally better bearing the above processing caveats in mind.
>Or do all CRTs have the same black levels?
In a darkened room pretty much yes. Performance in high ambient light situations will vary for the above reasons.

Still on svideo via shitty Multi-Cable, looking to up my cord game. How exactly do I avoid the "Scart meme"

>>3545996
By making rgb bnc cables like an autismo.

>>3545996
Buy multi coaxial 75 Ohm cable with six wires (and recommend one to me), get BNC tool, BNC connectors, find proprietary console AV connectors for sale, figure out where to put required capacitors and resistors for required lines.

>>3545996
PS3-era OEM s-video cables are still the best, and are still pretty cheap:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-10-FT-Original-OEM-SONY-Playstation-3-PS3-S-Video-AV-Cable-24K-Gold-Plated-/371342364224?hash=item5675bace40:g:7k8AAOSwNSxVbhF7

For YPbPr, OEM is best but prices are around $30 used and $55 new:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Official-OEM-Sony-SCPH-10490-PS3-PS2-Component-AV-Cable-Factory-Sealed-Gold-/291868448474?hash=item43f4b716da:g:sq0AAOSwHoFXqT3d

If you do want scart, use the cable this guy's got:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PlayStation-Console-SCPH-9001-PS1-RGB-SCART-Extras-FREE-SHIPPING-/191987057177?hash=item2cb3520219:g:wcgAAOSw0UdXsnG-

It's unobtainable otherwise right now

>>3545896

I have both FD Trinitron and Hi-Black Trinitron.
Hi-Black have much better black levels than FD. Personally for gaming i think Hi_Black Trinitron is the holy grail. Best most vibrant colors i have ever seen on a CRT. My FD Trinitron has better picture geometry though and seems to create a denser image closer to a Computer Monitor CRT with less pronounced scanlines.

Hi-Black were common early nineties. They were friggin expensive back then. FD/WEGA is Sony's last CRT made around 2000.

>>3545130
nemesis detected

Should I just sell my PVM and get one of these?

https://www.focusattack.com/scan-dl-vga-scanline-generator/

>>3546289
Absolutely

>>3546289
>doesn't linedouble
no

>>3546289
Only if you sell it to me for $5.

Alright anons i need some help.
My KV-16WT1's picture goes a bit off screen on the left side. I tried entering servicemode to fix this but it looks differently from other pictures i've seen. I somehow managed to enter a menu with a list of items representing the settings, but it wont let me adjust them. Pardon the poor image quality. My camera is broken

Could anyone here help?

What CRT has the best scanlines?

>>3546369
change to a regular channel, then change the setting. Kinda annoying as it requires several blind attempts, but it should allow changes and save

>>3545674
for the life of me, I cannot get the menu to come up

>>3546381
120hz fw900

>>3546175
Do vertically flat Trinitrons have more focus, convergence, and geometry issues than fully curved CRT TVs (good makes like Toshiba, JVC, etc.)?
Or is it only the fully flat early 2000s CRT TVs that have those problems?

>>3546383
Thanks, anon. But it still wont allow changes.

>>3546412
you may have entered the code for diagnostic menu ? On this one you can see settings but not change them

>>3546424
I'm entering Display, 5, vol+, power. This brings me to pic related. From there i have to press menu to get to the pic in my previous post.

I just got a splitter and realized that I have no regular ass component to component cables. I also know nothing about how RCA cables work, so please forgive me if this is a stupid question, but:

Can I plug in like three yellow composite cables into the component out, then plug them into their corresponding colour on the TV and have that work? Or should I run to Wal-Mart real fast and buy some component cables?

>>3546641
Yes, the cables themselves are identical

Holy carp watching tv on this is so amazing. Can't really capture it because moire

>>3545996
>>3546052
Is there any reason to want component or anything besides hdmi on PS3?

I guess my question is why would you want a PS3 hooked up to a CRT? I know it has a pretty decent ps1 library but couldn't you just use your ps2 for all ps1/2 games with no upscaling.

>>3546443
Nevermind i got it working. Turns out i actually had to plug in a console or something. Thanks for the help anyway

>>3545886
>>3545864
My late model Sony Wega sets allow this, too, but I assumed that >>3545674 was referring to older/non-Wega sets.

>>3546705
PS3 can't do 240p for PSX titles, so it's pretty bad all over. The only thing you'd really want one for on a CRT is for Universal Media Server, and even then, I've personally had absolutely no luck with it in terms of subtitle rendering.

>>3546406
No

Just the actual flat faced models.

>>3545864
>>3545886
It means those two settings, intl and vtms do not save to memory upon power cycling.
Additionally, the image seems misleading from a test I just did.

It claims to give better scanlines, but has essentially no effect on actual 240p sources. It moves the raster up slightly, but the actual spacing is exactly the same. What it DOES seem to do is change the alignment of actual interlaced content(which makes sense considering the name).

It's not perfect, but this can actually deinterlace content to some extent. I tested Mega Man 9 via the Wii(U) as well as Mega Man 3, 7, and 8.

9 as a "native" 480i game gives so so results, because it doesn't seem like all of the assets want to align properly to one field, meaning that some content looks cleaner with setting 2 and others with setting 3.

3, 7, and 8 were tested via Mega Man Anniversary Collection (GC) to act as 240p content displayed interlaced. Things work much better here, and while there is some "interlacing jitter" in the image, the overall picture is rather stable. 8 was used as a reference point and compared to the PS1 version on a PS2. The two versions seem to be displayed at slightly different aspect ratios, but while the actual 240p obviously looks much sharper and cleaner overall, the deinterlacing does improve how MMAC looks normally.

What I really want to test is how this affects the PS3 displaying PS1 games.

>>3546705
I play HD games on an XS955. not only does it look gorgeous, I don't have to put up with sample-and-hold blur.

>>3546714
Yea that's why I'm confused why the fella wants his PS3 on tube considering ps2 is best but as he stated he plays HD games on it. But...

>>3546803
Why not just use the hdmi port on your xs955?

>>3546849
>Why not just use the hdmi port on your xs955?
Lag.
And, yes, I know lag can be eliminated with HDPT, but doing so can introduce a scrolling vertical bar.

I just plugged a composite and S-Video cable into my CRT at the same time. I didn't know the universe could be so white

>>3546754
>What I really want to test is how this affects the PS3 displaying PS1 games.

Also this could be good for the 3DO.
3DO, although it has a 320x240 framebuffer and should be 240p, instead linedoubles the picture to 480i (without any extra detail).
Presumably this is to get rid of scanlines but the consequence is that it causes flicker and combing artifacts.
Some 3DOs can be modded to always do 240p by bridging 2 legs on one of the chips.
This secret menu method may be an easier way for those without the skills, equipments and parts to do the mod.

PVM-1344Q @ 600 TVL
Sega Saturn - RGB - Luma-Sync

>>3546396
you are having so glitches at the bottom of the screen

>>3547692
happens on real hw too, but most of the time it's hidden by overscan

>>3546754
PS2 CvS2 ? Uses that weird as fuck interlaced 240 mode

>>3546285
How is the picture on this bad boy in motion? If you sit close, is everything still playable?

I wonder why I don't just get a nice little 14 incher and sit closer to it. I guess at that point, it wouldn't really matter the size huh

>>3547089
mite b cool

If I had a 3DO to test it with, I would.

>>3547725
I DO have that however. I'll test that out in a bit, and compare it to the GC version, Swiss'd into 240p.

>>3546918
>>3546803
You have zero clue what you are talking about. Get rid of the rainbow dlp and get something else.

>>3547829
>Get rid of the rainbow dlp and get something else
...but it's a CRT

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-bgVY1Xc9jUs/p_158KD34XS9/Sony-KD-34XS955.html

Are the XBR trinitrons good for gaming at all?

So I have picked up a Bosch security monitor. It's 19" and the best input is s-video. My old Sharp had s-video as well, but a higher definition monitor demands higher quality cables!

I'm not looking to mod any of my consoles, but I want the best available options.

I need a good s-video cable for Dreamcast, PS2, and Wii. I've got one ordered for SNES and N64. And realize that it's not an option without missing NES and Genesis.

>>3548564
use a ps3 oem cable, wii oem cable and use a vga box for the dc

>>3548532
the old sd xbr's are the shit and a few models even had a form of rgb input.

>>3547740
crt images tend to look as good in motion as as they do stationary, so I'm sure it looks fine.

>>3547808
I have a 3do and a kv27fv17. I could give it a try when I get home.

>>3545263
Get a step up transformer

Just moved a couple of weeks ago and finally getting my battlestation back together in the new place.

Apologies for potatocam. It's late and dark here which doesn't help much.

>>3548912
comfy as hell

>>3536939
Nope. This
>>3536942
>>3536887

There were also other RGB solutions besides JP21 like the 8 pin Digital RGB connector that was used on older computers like the PC8801.

>>3538353
I love the monitor that was made for the Sharp X1. Mostly because it looks really good next to a red Sharp X1.

>>3545263
Fuck you dude, where did you even find one of those? I can't even find a 1390 in the US.I found a 1311Cr but I'm not too fond of the RGB input.

>>3537975
Make sure to play Policenauts too. I played through both on my CRT and it was a beautiful cheesy cyberpunk experience.

I've just adjusted my cheap trinitrons image in the service menu, and for the most part it looks great with SNES, Psone, and Wii emulators.

For some reason though the n64 still has this noticeable slightly curved black bar at the top. I can at least see the whole picture this time though as it was cutting off the top left, but why would the n64 look so different to the other consoles? Is it the resolution?

>>3548912
That poor table

I need to get my BVM off the floor. What do you guys use for TV stands? Before this I didn't have a TV at all, so nothing existing to mod. New TV stands are way too shallow.

I'll keep on hunting craigslist, but if there's an IKEA meme or something that would work I'd be interested.

Any recommended calibration dvds?

>>3549369
Digital Video Essentials?
It's a venerable, oldish video that has a legacy dating back to the 90s or something. I can't tell you if it's actually any good, but I think it was pretty well-known back in the day.

>>3549326
If you're really dedicated, I bet you'd have some luck at garage sales or estate sales. Or checking craigslist for CRTs of the same size that come with a TV stand, and just relist the CRT itself and keep the stand.

I have an idea. I'm sure we all know that regular raster CRTs can be converted into black-and-white vector monitors with some math and some effort. And I'm sure a few of you know that the color vector display Tempest uses isn't nearly as sharp as the black-and-white display the Vectrex uses, because of the unique way the Tempest monitor achieves color at the expense of clarity. And I certainly hope everyone in this general knows how a rear-projection CRT works.

Wouldn't it be possible to modify all three tubes of a rear-projection CRT to turn it into essentially a color Vectrex (without making the sacrifice Tempest made), if you fed each tube a different XYZ signal (one signal for red, one for blue,
and one for green)?

Programming something to output 3 XYZ signals is another story, but the concept is sound, right?

>>3549618
>unique way the Tempest monitor achieves color at the expense of clarity.
It's not unique, it's aperture grille like every other color CRT

A rear projection CRT could become a color Vectrex. Good luck finding a functional one.

>>3549697
>aperture grille
Actually it was a shadow mask. But you're right, at its heart, it's a typical consumer monitor (according to service manuals for the "Color Quadrascan" display). I had initially confused the way it worked with the way color oscilloscopes work, which was different. They use "penetration color".

>good luck finding a functional one
people here find WEGAs on Craigslist all the time, but thanks


Also, another idea I had was using a black-and-white vector display, but with a modded LCD screen (the backing and backlights removed) in front of it, serving as a color filter, sort of like the plastic filters the Vectrex games came with. But I have a feeling this would look really shitty, since the LCD screen would dim the colors slightly (like playing Tempest with barely-tinted sunglasses on). Any thoughts?

>>3548997
Thanks anon. What with all the other more pressing issues surrounding the house move it's nice to have somewhere to enjoy a bit of r&r.

>>3549317
Ha, that's what my gf said. It's solid as a rock but with potentially 300lbs or more intended to go on there I may add a support stay under the middle just in case...

>>3548912
most interesting dual-screen setup I've ever seen. Why do you have it set up that way?

>>3549804
Are you referring to the dual BVMs or the laptop & portrait screen arrangement?

It's very much a work-in-progress at the moment. Here's a pic in the cold light of day (cold because we currently don't have heating or hot water...)

tfw you put a bunch of weird porn roms onto your everdrive.

>>3549816
Are you willing to sell me the IBM?

>>3549848
Maybe if you offer a stupid amount of money and can pick it up in person. I'm in the UK btw.

Seriously though, I've had that beast for over 11 years now and invested quite a lot into it - setting up WinDAS, fixing the G2 issue prevalent on this era of FD Trinitrons etc etc - plus, on top of all that, it goes quite nicely with my collection of ThinkPads.

>>3549867
I'm in Germany and willing to pay for shipping. The price I'm willing to pay depends on the specific model though. Is 500€ enough? What is the max resolution / refresh rate?

>>3549889
>>3549867
Are you still there? I need this CRT.

>>3549889
It's a P275. 2048x1536@75hz is the max standard it will display but that's beyond the capability of the aperture grille so it gets a bit blurry DESU. 1600x1200 can be displayed at something approaching 100hz if memory serves.

It does 240p quite nicely at 120hz with black frame insertion. See >>3542832

I also removed the anti-glare coating film a while back so no more problems with scratches or marks and overall brightness and vibrancy is much improved over stock. You just need less ambient light in the room to minimise reflections on the screen.

>>3549902
Sorry, brainfart.

It's a P260.

>>3549902
>You just need less ambient light in the room to minimize reflections on the screen.
That could be a problem given how bright my room is. Still, I want this thing. I have a comparable Sony Trinitron, but a white CRT looks like crap next to click black IPS screens. Would you be willing to sell for 500€ + shipping?

>>3549914
>500€ + shipping?
Holy fuck these yuropoors are loaded.

>>3549914
There's a white one on eBay.de much cheaper and obviously closer.

Why not just buy that and vinyl dye the casing?

>>3549923
I'm a piss poor student. Just also a crazy tech enthusiast. Going to spend 1000€ on a 144hz IPS soon.

>>3549924
Because I could do the same thing with my sony. Also link pls, could not find anything.

>>3549924
You mean that one?
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sony-Multiscan-200-ES-/122165555214
I would like to buy it but:
>Horizontal: 30 to 70 kHz
>Vertical: 50 to 120 Hz
I already bought a good used Multiscan 20 sfII a few months ago which goes up to 150hz.

>>3549926
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Monitor-IBM-P260-20-CRT-4-3-VGA-DVI-/322114405014?nav=SEARCH

>>3549931
My Trinitron is in better condition.

Does anyone recognize which TV model and year this is? I know it's Magnavox but nothing else.

>>3549914
Another common option for a black-cased 20/21" FD Trinitron is the Dell P991.

It's pretty much identical under the skin and doesn't generally attract as much attention as the Sony and IBM variants.