/vr/ - Retro Games

Just saw a thread like this

The best version of Resident Evil 2 is on the dreamcast

Best version.

>>3526379
>no Hidden & Dangerous in the multiplatform category
why though

>>3526380
that feels like it would be so relieving to do, then again i love picking at my flesh

Not retro mods delete now

>Not retro mods delete now

>>3526537
Thx for agree wear are mods tho

The top post specifically says that Dream cast is now Retro.

>>3526542
You'd think that would settle the issue but no

>>3526542
people on this board are fucking retarded, what do you expect

>>3526542
Well, it's a gen 6 console after all and gen 6 is retro.

>>3526661
>gen 6 is retro
only Dreamcast

>>3526692
Why is Dreamcast Gen6 when the XBOX is the spiritual successor to it and its graphics are closer to be a better N64 than anything...? It even shares many games with Gen 5 consoles.

>>3526770
This. Its spiritual successor is in the same generation, the damn thing is clearly 5th gen or somewhere between the 5th and 6th gens.

dreamcasts (and segas in general) awkward timing makes it a gen 5 console so go fuck yourself autismos

best version of pic related other than the pc version

>>3526770
How is the Xbox the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast?

>>3526376
ikaruga

>>3527347
Not him but I guess he is refering to Sega being close to Microsoft at the time, so a lot of games that were meant to come out on the DC ended up being released on the Xbox instead, like Jet Set Radio Future, Sega GT 2002, Panzer Dragoon Orta or Gun Valkyrie

>>3527376
Not to mention the physical similarities between the gamepads of both consoles, and how advanced the hardware was compared to the rivals. Just like the Dreamcast was the first console to ship with a modem, the Xbox took it a step further and came out with a harddrive instead of shitty memory cards

>>3527347
Numerous reasons, such as
- both ran Windows-derivatives
- Microsoft learnt the console business from Sega with the DC
- they almost made the Xbox backwards compatible with the DC (the deal fell through because it would've raised costs - remember, they sold the original Xbox at a $100 loss per unit already)
- Sega moved a LOT of their software to the Xbox, including DC ports (Shenmue 2, Rent-a-Hero), DC sequels (Crazy Taxi 3, Jet Set Radio Future, House of the Dead 3), other original IPs (Panzer Dragoon Orta, Gunvalkyrie, Outrun 2), and some games were canned on the DC and moved to Xbox (Toejam & Earl 3)

Basically Sega supported the Xbox incredibly well. Plus the console wars were still raging, and many Sega fans did not want to get a Sony or Nintendo machine, so they opted for the newcomer Xbox.

That, and the Xbox only ever had explosive popularity in North America... just like the Sega Genesis had.

>>3526770
>its graphics are closer to be a better N64 than anything
Are you fucking blind? How is Soul Calibur or Shenmue closer to the n64 than the best the PS2 could offer? Most devs were fucking lazy and made shitty psx/n64 ports, but the dreamcast's hardware was leagues ahead of the 5th gen and barely weaker than the ps2.

>>3527382
>>3527389
good point, I forgot about the built in online, also something that both DC and Xbox had and capitalized on.

The Xbox controller also had two slots on the top for memory cards and microphone, just like the DC pad. It was rumoured that the controller was so huge because they wanted a VMU window in there too.

Shenmue for sure. I'm replaying and currently at the forklift part. I never played Shenmue-2. Need to get busy and finish before 3 comes out.

But yeah, playing Shenmue at age 16 in the year 2000 was so epic. I can't tell you how ahead of the times they were for that era.

>>3527392
Dreamcast's T/L capabilities WERE closer to N64 than PS2 though. Hell, even the memory bandwidth was closer.

Only thing that would make you think otherwise was the Dreamcast's PowerVR was automatically incredibly efficient with its fill rate and memory use, while most N64 and PS2 games used the hardware poorly.

That being said, I need to clarify that the Dreamcast can't transform or light large numbers of polygons anywhere near the PS2. It really is closer to the N64 in that department.

>>3526661
Dreamcast 5.5 generation, not sixth generation.

>>3528091
The last PowerVR card released for the PC was competitive with the Geforce 2, even with it having less memory bandwidth and using slower ram thanks to that efficiency.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/735/12

>>3528405
>The last PowerVR card released for the PC was competitive with the Geforce 2

They were only competitive in games that didn't use hardware T&L like Unreal Tournament since PowerVR 3 didn't support it anyway.

Of course, Dreamcast is based on PowerVR 2

>>3528414
An enhanced PowerVR 2, more powerful than the consumer version.

>>3528426
Considering the consumer version of PowerVR 2 wasn't very good, that doesn't say much. That being said, PowerVR 2 was definitely the best part of the console. It was well balanced, good texture support, had high quality flicker and dither filtering (good enough that people mistake for actual anti-aliasing), and could easily drive progressive 640x480 without issue.

Unfortunately the GPU will still be limited by the other parts of the console, like the CPU and memory bandwidth. Theoretically, the N64's GPU is more powerful than the original Voodoo card (even if you exclude its T&L features), but in practice it wasn't because the memory bandwidth available was lower.

Dreamcast's PowerVR 2 literally has as much memory bandwidth as the original Voodoo. Yes, the tile-based rendering does work wonders but it has limits. For static geometry it's great, but for framebuffer / pixel effects it's not a lot better than N64. At least it didn't have space issues like PS2, but it wasn't very fast.

Also the Hitachi SH-4 while having very good SIMD performance for a CPU just can't complete with dedicated T&L units (GeForce) or an insanely SIMD focused CPU like PS2's Emotion Engine. It's a fair bit faster than N64's older, dedicated T&L unit though. That holds the Dreamcast back from having large quantities of well lit polygons.

>>3528472
Some differences:

CLX tile was 32x32, PC part was 32x16.
CLX support alpha test with HW front->back sorting to deliver massive effective fillrates when it was use, this was not available on the PC part.
CLX tiling was completely handled by HW, the PC part was 50:50 split between HW and SW
CLX include latency buffering that allowed VQ and palettised to run at full rate, this was removed from the PC part resulting in 50% performance for those formats.
CLX support 2 or 3 (think it was effectively 3 wasn't it Simon ?) external 32 bit memory busses (think in terms of much hyped NV/ATi crossbars), The PC part utilised a single 64 bit bus resulting much greate page break impact.

This all adds up to the PC part being between 50-75% of the performance of the console part inspite of the higher clock rate (125 vs 100 MHz), so you can't really compare the Neon250 review figure's with those that might of been obtained on CLX.

>>3528491
>This all adds up to the PC part being between 50-75% of the performance of the console part

I think this is a little optimistic considering virtually everything you've mentioned gives the Dreamcast only a situational advantage. Nominally, the PC part is 25% faster.

For example, with tiling being split between HW and SW, you have to remember that not only does the PC HW run faster (considering the pipeline is run through 25% faster), but the SW part on PC is much more competent than the Dreamcast equivalent (owing to the much faster CPUs), so it might not actually result in the performance loss you imply.

Are you saying that alpha test was fully SW on PC? Or is it 50:50 split like tiling?

A lack of latency buffering wouldn't result in a full 50% loss of texture performance.

Also having larger tiles will only significantly help if there's larger amounts of overdraw. PC games would have lower rates of overdraw compared to console games anyway due to far more visibility testing on the CPU.

I agree that CLX will be better than the PC version but definitely not twice as good. 25% better probably at most.

>>3527389
>the Xbox only ever had explosive popularity in North America... just like the Sega Genesis had
wat. SNES ruled North America.
Mega Drive was more popular in South America, Europe and Australia than in the states.

>>3528530
There's more in-depth info on it here, the guy was a PowerVR engineer.
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/powervr-2dc.14297/

>>3528546
That's a good link, thanks.

But yeah, he did have an interest in talking up his own product.

>>3528535
Actually the sales were pretty much equal in America, with Sega making more revenue than Nintendo.

>>3528768

Shit like the conversation in this thread about PowerVR make this board worth visiting.

Shit like the HUR DUR NOT RETRO in this thread make visiting this board a chore.

It may not look as pretty as the arcade version, but it still plays great. Love the uneven stages, which they could have kept them in 4 & 5.

>>3528770
What did he mean by this?

>>3529014
Virtua Fighter 3th?

>>3529118
tb

>>3528535
>>3528770
>Nintencucks trying to rewrite history

Every time

>>3526376

Just a reminder, Dreamcast was released Sept 1999 so it is retro but only games released prior to 2000 may be discussed.

>>3529151
Nigger you're fucking stupid. I guess then we can't talk about PS1 and N64 games released after 2000 then

>>3529151
Impersonating staff is a criminal offense.

>>3529163

Nope we cant faggot

>>3529151

I don't see anyone else on this website talk about the fucking Dreamcast so why don't you go cry to your momma.

Same shit applies to PS2, we should just make the fucking exception and allow PS2 GC and XBOX to be talked about because /v/ sure as hell doesn't give a shit about videogames anymore they just care about memes, drama, and porn.

>>3529174

Pre-2000 only. Anything over go to /v/ fag

>>3529179

You go?

>>3529172
You're not the boss here nigger, go ahead and report the thread and see nothing happen faggot.

>>3529179
>he thinks he's a mod

Cute.

>>3529179
>Pre-2000 only.Anything over go to /v/ fag
Anything except Dreamcast games, my little autistic friend.

>>3529184

Thread is fine, Dreamcast is retro as are some games, fag.

>Sonyggers will NEVER EVER get their PS2 allowed here
>they will continue to shit up Dreamcast games out of envy

How do we save /vr/, lads?

>>3529216
Allow PS2, Xbox, GCN and GBA so they quit shitting up good threads.

>>3529197
So why don't you apply your faggot rule to late PS1 and N64 games nigger?

Oh right, you're retarded.

>>3529228

Rules applies to everything after 1999 regardless of console faggot. What is so hard to understand?

>>3529232
No, they don't.

>>3529232
Not even rulefags read the sticky.

>>3529349
FF9 AND CHRONO CROSS ARENT RETRO

>>3529179
Its pre 99 shitlord

How the fuck is this console retro?

>>3529367
Read the rules.

Goddamn you faggots are dumber than /v/

>>3529357
Nigga, those are the only post-90's PS1 games you could name?

>>3529357

If they are released after 1999 they arent per this board. Take discussion of them to

/v/>>3529423

There are few examples they can name. Sure there are a few but not many. 99% of the games discussed here meet the rules, a few faggots are butthurt that they cant talk about COD MF here.

>>3528535
>wat. SNES ruled North America.

No, NES dominated with 95% market share, then Genesis went up to 60% in 1994. Then Sega cancelled all of their consoles in 1995, so the SNES got some market share back due to lack of sub-$200 opposition.

what was the best, sonic adventure 1 or sonic adventure 2?

>>3529836
you can't expect people to be able to pick between such classics. they're both the best.

>>3529836
Sonic Adventure

>>3529836
Adventure 1 easily.

>>3528392
That's not how it works.

Also
>THIS 6th Gen console is retro
>but THESE 6th Gen consoles are not!
>lalalalala i can't hear you!

>>3529836
Both were painfully mediocre, but SA2 was better as a game, SA1 was better as an open world.

>>3529836
SA3

>>3529836
2. SA1 was a buggy piece of shit.

>>3529836

2.

-Ditched SA1's overworld which was filler running around bookended by constant cutscenes.
-Ditched SA1's level reuse.
-Chao races are better.

>>3530026
>being this much of a fag

of gen 6, the Dreamcast was the only one to be released before the year 2000. all the others were post 2000, hence why they are not considered /vr/ systems.

also read the sticky, faggot

>>3530193
Dreamcast was also the only machine that had a fixed pipeline rasterizer. All the later machines had programmable pixel pipelines, allowing them to do modern cinematic effects.

>>3530221
PS2 also had a fixed pipeline rasterizer. There were no pixel shading units along any of it's pipelines. If you wanted pixel effects you just had to blend pixels across pipelines, thankfully the PS2 had a lot of pipelines.

Also the N64 did have a pixel shading color combiner, that allowed precisely one color combine with whatever pixel was being processed. Basic, but still pixel shading technically.

So it's not a good method to define generations that way.

>>3529836
I just beat SA1 for the first time 2 hours ago, what a fucking frustrating game, its so ambitious but the bugs are absolutely horrifying. For every 2 things the game does right there are 10 things that are irritatingly bad.

The parts that I enjoy, I really really enjoy but then some bullshit happens.

>>3526376
Anything with "Sonic," "Radio," "Arcadia," or "Taxi" in the title.

>>3530179
Found the DX baby.

>>3530193
PS2 was released in 2000 and should count.

>>3526376
how'd they get the controller cord like that

>>3530552
V is already shitted up with ps2. Go there

>>3530552
> Retro gaming means consoles, computer games, arcade games (including pinball) and any other forms of video games on platforms launched in 1999 and earlier

>>3530571
The ps2 is too old for the /v/ kids to discuss. You might find one 6th-gen thread with about 5 replies.

this was meant to be a thread about dreamcast games and recommendations, stop making this about board rules and take it somewhere else.

some of my must plays:
Berserk, is it good? not really but it's enjoyable for what it is.
Crazy taxi, it's fucking crazy taxi.
Resident Evil games are pretty dope on it.

>>3529014
The even stages were removed because it caused some weird balance issues. VF is always first and foremost a competitive fighter.

Basically when you were on the higher ground you had an advantage because the player on the slope stayed in the air longer.

Normally that's not so bad, but on many stages it meant that at the very start of the match, one side had an advantage over the other.

VF3 is still a phenomenal game though, I love it to bits.