/vr/ - Retro Games

Game was ruined by it's hardware, would have been good if they saved it for the Gamecube

The main reason why I didn't enjoy it much was that it came out at the same time as Deus Ex.

It's funny how lately a lot of threads start with "hey let's discuss this game, but please DON'T critisize it, let's talk about the good things in it"

And I agree with you OP, but you can't change human nature, bitching is free, and people just happen to love bitching about things all the time.

I would kill for an open world version of that game with that same setting.

that chicago level... hardest level

>>341073
I don't think anyone but the denizens of /b/ actually believe in "internet hate machine" anymore.
But I'm pretty sure that many others just like myself like to come here because we won't be chastised for our opinions that generally go against mainstream beliefs.
It's nice to have the freedom to talk about things in a positive and negative light, and getting judged by the content of your posts rather than your post count.

I'm really getting offtopic here, whoops.

There is actually something that I liked both in Perfect Dark and Goldeneye: when you increased the difficulty level, you had to complete more objectives. I wonder why not many games do this.

>>341039
>Pafekto Daku
>not Aka to Kuro
Red & Black sounds better.

Then again, 'La Vitesse' is a better name than 'SPEED'.

ALL the singeplayer aspects were great. the missions, and the tutorial hub world carrington institute. multiplayer has been done better since perfect dark, but not every game can say it has co-op/counter op.

>>341084
its easier for devs to just adjust some damage sliders and call it difficulty.

>>341062
>It's funny how lately a lot of threads start with "hey let's discuss this game, but please DON'T critisize it, let's talk about the good things in it"
>And I agree with you OP, but you can't change human nature, bitching is free, and people just happen to love bitching about things all the time.

OP here. I don't mind criticism. Criticism is healthy. But literally every PD thread on /vr/, and there's one every few days at minimum, so far has descended into the argument over whether the N64 controller handled FPS well, with one side saying it didn't and the other accusing the former of not configuring the game properly and of being lazy. And the stuff worth talking about, the game's innovation and design, gets drowned out. Happens to a lot of games, actually. And the framerate argument has been done to death.

>>341053
>The main reason why I didn't enjoy it much was that it came out at the same time as Deus Ex.

Interesting point. They're very, very similar games. Personally, PD beats Deus Ex as an FPS, but DE wins as an RPG.

Sure, PD only has very minor decisions, but it was kinda the prototype for the thing which Black Ops 2 did.

>>341051
>Game was ruined by it's hardware, would have been good if they saved it for the Gamecube

The problem there is that the Gamecube flopped. So it would have killed the game. And Perfect Dark Zero was a Gamecube game before development was ported to Xbox, then to the Xbox 360. As we all know, it didn't turn out so good, even if Zero is an okayish game in its own right.

If they'd "saved it" Rareware would have collapsed before the game was finished.

>>341095

Good point, but I HATE the fact that emulated screengrab was clearly shot with Jabo plugin, and is missing dynamic lighting effects as well as coronas. Glide64 is the ONLY way to play this game.

>>341102
>Personally, PD beats Deus Ex as an FPS,
I thought the level design, augmentations and weapon costumization made the action in Deus Ex more varied, though it's still a little stiff by fps standards.

>>341108
its actually not my screen. want to make a better one with aa and all that?

>>341123
Here's a Glide64 one. This is how the game SHOULD look. Note the sky and coronas. PD has that J.J Abrams thing going on years before Abrams was doing it.

Compare that to this - a Jabo one, with half the effects missing.

People play this game on emulators which basically don't put dynamic lighting on non-static objects. It's insane, and makes the game look terrible. Especially since it has such a focus on light\dark contrast.

>>341102
They wanted to do a lot of stuff with PD, like the game was suppose to be more about stealth, hiding in the shadows (Hence Perfect Dark)
Also the Ai was suppose to be a lot smarter, but ended up being an unfinished buggy mess (Snipers can't shoot over railings, guards only run away at random)

>>341039

Two Best Friends recently did a Brawl in Perfect Dark, it was actually fun as hell to watch, and reminded me what I loved about the game. Perfect Dark wasn't just "A few guns that do generally the same thing", there was some genuinely unique shit in there.

Off the top of my head:
Slayer: Fun as hell with Fly By Wire
Farsight: Most broken fucking gun in any console FPS.
Mines: Always fun, strategic (Arguably), hilarious for trolling.
Grenades: Proximity Pinball, turned the game into Touhou.
Dragon: A Proximity Mine shaped like a gun, that actually works like a decent gun.
Superdragon: Semi-auto grenade launcher. A fantastic gun.
RCP120/Cloaking Device: Changed things up considerably.
Cyclones: Fantastic when dual wielded, and an really fucking cool reload.
Shotgun: Double Blast. Enough said.
Anything with Threat Detector: Balanced out all the mines.

I fucking love Perfect Dark, I just hated the controls.

>>341152
>>Ended up being an unfinished buggy mess (Snipers can't shoot over railings, guards only run away at random)

That's a bit of an exaggeration. You're mistaking design decisions for bugs. Unless... What exactly do you mean by "unable to shoot over railings"?


>>341160
>I fucking love Perfect Dark, I just hated the controls.

Did you set the controls to 1.2 with invert disabled like you were supposed to? The default controls were useless, and basically a cop-out so people with no coordination could play the game.

1.2 controls are basically the same as Turok3's controls, incidentally.

>>341186

Nope. I think I disabled the invert, but aside from that I went with default and dealt with it.

For all I know, I might have done that. It's sadly been 10 years since I last played it, minimum.

>>341152
>hiding in the shadows

I'm pretty sure elements of this still exist. If you shoot out lights, the AI can't detect you. Until you fire again, your weapon creating a light source, and they spot you.

Perfect Darkness mode, which disables all the lighting, is a neat way to see the real nature of the game's lighting system, which seems to involve treating the game world as chunks, and only illuminating individual sections at a time. Cheap, but reasonably effective.

>>341212
>Nope. I think I disabled the invert, but aside from that I went with default and dealt with it.

if you aimed with C-buttons you were doing it wrong, basically. No offense, of course, since I did the same for a few years. You're meant to use C-buttons to move and the stick to aim. Takes practice, but my accuracy is very, very good now.

Perfect Dark credits - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWD3wO7Zzbg

Dem credits, man. Best N64 tech demo ever?

>>341219

That... Makes a hell of a lot more sense. Fucking hell, I WISH I'd have played that way. Fuck.

For anyone who's interested, here's the UK box art. Very different to the one the rest of the world got.

>>341295
It's astonishing the difference 1.2 makes. Yes, you're playing left-handed, technically, but you can train your left thumb to aim with a tiny bit of practise. Trouble is, too many people just went, "Na, this is too hard," and went back to a near lack of vertical aim control. Which is terrible, since despite what people claim, Perfect Dark actually has a LOT of vertical aiming. If you can't aim up and down, you're crippled.

>>341332
By UK do you mean Europe you dirty limey?

>>341405
>By UK do you mean Europe you dirty limey?

I'm not actually sure. Australia\New Zealand didn't get this art, despite being a PAL region.

>mfw playing the xbox 360 port

>>341459
Questionable art changes aside, it's a pretty damn good port. Putting David Doak in charge was a good decision, IMO.

I love how they responded to fan feedback and patched the XBLA version to fix some of the changes they initially made - no south paw, nerfed Laptop gun, etc.

Is the multiplayer still populated? I hear mixed reports. Some say yes, some say no.

>>341459
Is the port any good?

>>341472
Very good
>60 fps all day every day no matter what's going on screen
>still has all the split screen multiplayer/co op options
>enviorments look cleaned up and nice
Only downside is some of the models look pretty odd/different but honestly its not a big deal.
online is a bonus but i doubt anyone plays much
>>341471
I wouldnt really know about the online multiplayer, I dont have a gold sub.

>>341491
>I wouldnt really know about the online multiplayer, I dont have a gold sub.

Aw, man, now you remind me how much Microsoft sucks. :( Making people pay money to play a simple multiplayer game.

>>341513
Yeah agreed it is extremely lame, its the only platform the remake is on as well which is even shittier. Least you can play all of the original features without it.

i´ve had about 11 days of playtime in the multiplayer.
loved to build funny scenarios. also it took me years until i figured how to give commands to sims.
greatest experience in challenge mode was when we played for 90 minutes in capture the bag scenario with granade launchers.

>>341516
>its the only platform the remake is on as well which is even shittier.

Remember when Microsoft assured PC gamers how much they loved us? Then took us for a drive in the woods? Then refused to give us Halo 3? Or Reach? Or 4?

Frankly, despite selling around 400,000 copies, the X360 isn't the idea market for Perfect Dark HD. If it were on PC, on Steam, it would sell like hotcakes.

>>341039

although this mod was short lived...

http://www.pdark-mod.com/joomla/

it was pretty sick

>>341532
That mod was great. But seriously, guys, how hard would it have been to toss in bot support? I mean, wasn't that kinda one of Perfect Dark's big achievements?

There's no point in a multiplayer-only Half Life 2 mod if you don't have bots and half the builds don't work. It's a real shame it died that way.

>>341532
They did commit ONE huge sin.

Ginger Joanna.

Rareware made a conscious decision NOT to make Joanna Dark a red-head. They chose brown instead. Zero undid all that, and made her ginger, in addition to making her American.

So yea, from an art standpoint, that always bugged me. Even if the mod's art was lovely.

>>341559

wait? why? i never noticed but... what's the big deal?

>>341559
She's not a redhead. She has kool-aid hair when she's younger. for 'punk'.

>>341595
>She's not a redhead. She has kool-aid hair when she's younger. for 'punk'.

I meant the fact they even gave her orangy hair was a gross violation of Martin Hollis's original design. They even have her ORANGE CLOTHES at one point.

Martin remarked how stupid this was, even though he wasn't involved with Zero, and she got her blue jumpsuit back.

And that accent... *signs* There are a lot of things wrong with Zero. A lot of them involve the fact the story doesn't make a lick of sense when you cross-check it with the stuff on the Carrington Institute PCs in Perfect Dark.

>>341595
>She's not a redhead. She has kool-aid hair when she's younger. for 'punk'.

The red hair annoyed me, since it contradicted her established character from Perfect Dark.

Was there any explaination for her accent in Zero? You know, the fact she wasn't... British?

>>341648

Most Americans hate British accents.

>>341665
>Most Americans hate British accents.

Then they shouldn't be playing British videogames.

Guys, how is the best way to play Perfect Dark on PC?
Controlls kinda suck since it's hard to use the keyboard.

Should I get an Xbox-controller?

>>343052

Project 64 1.6.1
Glide64
Perfect Dark (U)

Use mouse and keyboard, dude. Failing that, an Xbox 360 controller is passable.

Here's a bundle with most of what you need. http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zszrisim58779z6

If you need help configuring Perfect Dark for PC, look up Ambient_Malice on twitter.

It's one of my favourite games of all time, OP, but don't open with "LET'S NOT BITCH ABOUT THE BAD PARTS!". Games should be remembered for what they were, not looked at through rose-tinted shades.

I loved all the exploration aspects, and the massive variety that the game had (with an expansion pack, of course). There's just so much to do, and it's a bloody FPS. The multiplayer was something you could dump hundreds of hours into on it's own, then you have all the carrington institute stuff to do. And one of the best parts of the game, was that it rewarded you for exploration and completion with cheats that weren't JUST godmode and infinite ammo, but more fun stuff like small enemies, big heads, retro weapons from goldeneye, etc.

But I'll be damned if the hardware didn't keep it down. If it was developed for the gamecube, it would have been easily 10 times better than it was on the n64. But considering what they had to work with, they did a pretty good job.

>>341039
because aliens and snipernotebook

>>341039
holy shit that cover art is stellar!

To be honest I think this one is better.

>>344484

The game or the box art?

>>341332

If you're seriously suggesting the Gameboy Colour Perfect Dark is better than the N64 one, what are you basing this on?

>>343271
>>It's one of my favourite games of all time, OP, but don't open with "LET'S NOT BITCH ABOUT THE BAD PARTS!". Games should be remembered for what they were, not looked at through rose-tinted shades.

Not a whole lot of rose tinting is needed for Perfect Dark. The problem is that the framerate in particular has been discussed to death, and the game has a lot of other interesting aspects, both good and bad, worth discussing.

For example: in the 1999 beta footage of Perfect Dark, helmeted NPCs had different voices to the rest of the NPCs. In the final game, they don't.

Then of course the whole "surrendering enemies who throw their weapons away when cornered thing", but that's been discussed to death, I suppose.

>>346660
The game,

>>346746
>The game.

Aaaand... why exactly is it better?
Being open-minded here.

And here is America's first Scottish president.

At least, that's what we asshume he is.

Counter-operative was kind of a precursor to Dark Souls' invasion mechanic, if you think about it.

>>341137
>>341147
>>347508
Game looks shit either way. Can't even compete with games like Deus Ex which weren't even graphically amazing for their time.

Also guys, circa 1999. This one's a bit too far.

>>347561
>Game looks shit either way. Can't even compete with games like Deus Ex which weren't even graphically amazing for their time.

Really? This game DOES have real-time lighting effects, framebuffer effects, smoother animation than Deus Ex, etc. What exactly is wrong with its visuals?

And PD is still considered suitable for /vr/ because it's an N64 game.

>>341358
Why wasn't that the default control setting, anyway? Turok had the same scheme however many years earlier.

>>347604
>Why wasn't that the default control setting, anyway? Turok had the same scheme however many years earlier.

Because people would have complained. By making the 'dumb' controls default, they kept the super-casual gamers happy, since they could at least play the game, while hardcore gamers could change the configuration to anything they liked, most favoring 1.2

Turok's controls weren't all that great, though. They only really worked out the kinks in Turok 3.

>>347590
>May 2000
Nope.

Anyways, consider the resolution Perfect Dark runs at on an N64. Also the frame rate. Sorry, but I've never enjoyed a game that ran at 20fps.
Deus Ex is simply an example as well, there's plenty more that look much better than Perfect Dark. Sorry, but it's not very amazing at all.

me and a couple friends played some good old N-Bomb only matches just recently. some of the least fun you can possibly have with any video game.

Deus Ex looks worse than Unreal, the older game on whose engine it runs. it was also super sluggish when it first came out, too. So yeah, bad example. But Perfect Dark wasn't graphically impressive at the time, too muddy and sluggish. But not terrible or anything.

>>347638
>Deus Ex is simply an example as well, there's plenty more that look much better than Perfect Dark. Sorry, but it's not very amazing at all.

Opinion, I guess. With the models upscaled and the textures updated, Perfect Dark looks like a Dreamcast game. On an emulator, it looks pretty darn good.

And Deus Ex? That game was ugly. Half Life was ugly. Videogames circa 2000 were not that great looking. In terms of art design and lighting, Perfect Dark holds its own even against a lot of modern PC games. I'm not exaggerating.

*shoots out lights*
*room goes dark*
*AI can't see you anymore*

Perfect Dark's resolution is better in PAL regions. Remember that. Americans got a slightly crummy version. Plus it has high resolution mode, even if that kills the framerate.

And 20fps? The game could technically run at 60fps, but it was erratic and jumped around between 10-30fps.

It doesn't matter if PD came out in 2000. Conker's Bad Fur Day came out in 2001, and it's still okay on /vr/, because the console came out in 1996.

>>347673
>muddy

What do you mean by muddy?

What part of this screams "Shit graphics?"

http://images.4chan.org/vr/src/1364988036310.png

>>347775
Awful geometry, shit lighting, low resolution, bad models, low resolution textures, lots of aliasing, I could go on.

>>347508

Am I the only one that thinks GE had a more fun campaign but worse multiplayer than PD?

Sure, PD had more fleshed-out missions, but it really looses that arcade-y feel GE had. I'd say PD is more polished but GE has more replay value, if anything.

>>347673
>>347673
>muddy
>sluggish

Thank you so damn much, couldn't of said it better!
>awwwshit5starpostnigga.png

>>347791
>Awful geometry, shit lighting, low resolution, bad models, low resolution textures, lots of aliasing, I could go on.

It's an emulated screenshot. So how can it have low resolution and lots of aliasing? And how are the models bad? What's wrong with, say, the Taxi?

You're kinda like the person who looks at Dishonored and says, "LOW POLY COUNT. SHIT GRAPHICS." Art is just as important as raw polygons.

You do realise the textures in 2000-era PC games were shitter, right? Deus Ex is especially bad.

>>347857

How. Is. Perfect. Dark. Muddy?

And you're not allowed to use the NTSC port's resolution problems as a reason.

>>347842
>Am I the only one that thinks GE had a more fun campaign but worse multiplayer than PD?

It's largely taste and opinion. But...

Goldeneye had harder hitting combat. Perfect Dark turned combat into a strange experience filled with enemies horrified of death who beg for mercy. It was deliberate, sure, but it pissed all over the action movie stylings of Goldeneye which people enjoyed.

Goldeneye's bad points in singleplayer:
Fog.
Lack of ingame story.
Cheap respawning AI.

>>347875
Obvious Perfect Dark fanboy. If you're going to emulate, at least do it at 1080p minimum, 32X CSAA, with texture mods, etc.

2000-era PC games ran much smoother and at higher resolutions. Plus much of them look better than Perfect Dark, not to mention had more interesting gameplay.

>>347979
>Obvious Perfect Dark fanboy. If you're going to emulate, at least do it at 1080p minimum, 32X CSAA, with texture mods, etc.

Perfect Dark doesn't HAVE any real texture mods.

And anti-aliasing is over-used. I may be a member of the PC master race, but emulating games with a shitload of AA is a bad idea. Plus running N64 games at insanely high resolution causes problems since the N64 uses the framebuffer heavily in stuff like Perfect Dark. It can cripple even a high-end PC in some cases.

>2000-era PC games ran much smoother and at higher resolutions. Plus much of them look better than Perfect Dark, not to mention had more interesting gameplay.

Define "interesting gameplay". What is it about PD's sandbox FPS gameplay with stealth and non-lethal combat plus varied objectives which is "not interesting"?

Are you suggesting games like Half Life, which consisted entirely of walking down a corridor and shooting things, before hopping around Xen, had more interesting gameplay?

>>348035
Half-Life is one of the greatest games of all time if not the greatest, son. Also it had much better multiplayer and weapons. Perfect Dark is impossible to play with its framerate, sorry.

>>347928
That's kinda what I mean. PD felt more like a stealth game, where killing your enemies was not always the ideal solution. GE just felt like an off-rails light gun shooter, with just a little bit of stealth thrown in.

>>348061
>Half-Life is one of the greatest games of all time if not the greatest, son. Also it had much better multiplayer and weapons. Perfect Dark is impossible to play with its framerate, sorry.

Half Life multiplayer? Uh... you are kidding, right? Because Counter Strike and Team Fortress don't count, being mods.

And impossible is subjective here. Some people can't handle the framerate on the PS2 classic Shadow of the Colossus. Doesn't diminish the game. Perfect Dark ran well enough for the game it tried to be. Which was a slow paced, intelligent FPS game which made you feel like a dick for killing people.

If you're unable to handle the framerate, that's why it has an HD port.

Plus, Perfect Dark > Half Life in the weapons department. You are aware PD remains a benchmark for weapons design, right?

>>348118
Halflife deathmatch was really fun. Have you even played it?

>>348118
Someone never played Half-Life deathmatch. Or you have no friends to play it with. One of the greatest multiplayer experiences of all time.

>>341186
>>341212
>>341219
>>341295
>>341358
>>347604
>>347637
Holy hell, that pretty much explains why everyone complains about the controls. I've literally been playing it with 1.2 forever and I've been wondering how retarded people on /v/ when they always so "LOL CONTROLS SUX".

>>348175
Sorry you can't handle opinions. I played Perfect Dark when it released and it was lacking in comparison to Goldeneye, nonetheless all the great PC FPS' of the time.

>>348150
I've used 1.1 for as long as I can remember and have no intentions of changing it. It's really a matter of taste, I think.

No matter which way you look at it, none of the control schemes are at all similar to traditional or modern control schemes. You'll be doing some getting used to with either choice.

>>348190
>Opinions

Deus Ex was better than Hallway Life bud.

>>348130
>Halflife deathmatch was really fun. Have you even played it?

A few times. It was the same generic FPS action as Quake. Which is a problem for me because I never liked the twitch shooting Quake mechanics.

Perfect Dark emphasizes stuff like closing doors to create cover and laying traps and, you know, using a fly-by-wire missile launcher to pwn your enemies. Perfect Dark is the sorta game where you feel as if every bullet is doing damage, because of the visual feedback.

>>348190
>I played Perfect Dark when it released and it was lacking in comparison to Goldeneye

How exactly was a game with more intelligent AI, more advanced lighting, more advanced sound, and more advanced gameplay which also included maps and weapons from Goldeneye... lacking? Besides the fact it dropped the mindless shooting aspect of Goldeneye which a lot of people found fun, what was lacking?

>>348219
Totally different games. You can't compare an RPG with FPS elememts to a fast paced FPS/horror game.

>>348224
Someone sucks at multiplayer FPS, but that's fine. I prefer mostly fast paced games, but eh.

>>348256
Not a fast paced shooter, not fun. As I stated before you're obviously lacking in the skill of playing competitive multiplayer FPS'.

>>348280
>>Not a fast paced shooter, not fun. As I stated before you're obviously lacking in the skill of playing competitive multiplayer FPS'.

It's not a matter of skill. I just don't find racing around at high speed pwning people fun. I prefer to beat people using actual tactics. Perfect Dark is very much the anti-thesis of Quake. If you prefer Quake, that's you choice, but I think Perfect Dark was a welcome evolution in FPS design. FPS games immediately went backward when Halo came out. Not that Halo was exactly bad, but it wasn't intelligent the way PD was.

>>341517
Wait, you can give commands to the sims?
HORY SHET pls tell me how, I've been playing for years and never found out abou it.

>>348341
>thinking Quake doesn't require actual tactics

Quake has far more depth than PD. You can't appreciate it because you're a casual scrub.

http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=170

>>348347
>Wait, you can give commands to the sims?

Yep. Hold A, press Z. Works in cooperative mode, too. You can order your sim companion to hold fire, attack, cloak, etc. Most people just sat around grumbling that the sim kept shooting people.

>>348370

I've read that before. Doesn't change the fact that the guy with the faster reflexes wins.

One thing about Perfect Dark is you can't jump. This grounds the gameplay in a sort of reality.

Perhaps tactics was the wrong word. Strategy, perhaps? Winning in Perfect Dark matches requires out-thinking your opponents, not exploiting the physics to ping-pong around the map. The maps ported over from Goldeneye are arguably the best. Felicity is such a popular map because it has so many doors. Someone coming for you with a grenade launcher? Slam a door in their face and run. Quake didn't have that. It was blunt killing. Grief, PD even gave you little awards for stuff like not killing anyone.

Plus Perfect Dark had bots which were better than most other FPS AI. Darksims were fucking horrible because they were so good.

>>348456
You completely failed to understand it if you think faster reflexes automatically wins.

>>348484
>You completely failed to understand it if you think faster reflexes automatically wins.

I didn't mean that. I meant:

Win at Quake:
Reflexes.
Tactics.

Win at PD:
Strategy.
Reflexes.

I simply dislike the basic gameplay model of Quake, which came from Doom.

Perfect Dark's gameplay model came from Goldeneye, and the multiplayer for Goldeneye was designed by one person in 6 weeks without the permission of his bosses.

>>348517
Why doesn't Quake require strategy?

>>348553
>Why doesn't Quake require strategy?

Strategy is less valuable. Tactics are more or less the same as something from a competitive sport, not actual tactics real people would use when fighting each other with real weapons.

In Quake, you don't have the same level of strategic and tactical versatility as Perfect Dark. Perfect Dark allows you to deal with a simple combat encounter by:

Crouching.
Running.
Shooting.
Cloaking.
Laying a trap.


PD has things like the Slayer, which allows you to fly missiles straight past people's defenses. It has disarming. When cornered, a valid strategy is to hide to the side of a door, wait for them to come through, grab their weapon, then shoot them. Quake doesn't allow this because it's focused entirely on killing.

When faced with Darksims, you are incapable of beating them in face-to-face combat no matter how good a player you are. Your only choice is to lay traps and attempt to exploit your environment to give yourself an edge.

>>348517
By analogy to ball sports, the ping-ponging around the map is your basic ball control skills, passing/drilling/tackling/etc. Obviously you need to master these to be competitive, but there's no creativity involved. The real game, in both Quake and ball sports, is the positional awareness and mindgames (faking out the opponents). The point of the lower level skills is to add cognitive load, making the higher level skills more difficult to apply. This makes it almost impossible to reach the point where there's no more improvement, so you don't end up with all the top players equal to each other. If you're very bad at the lower level skills then you will have no spare brain power for the higher level skills at all, and you might not even notice they exist.

If, like PD, you only have the high level mindgames challenge without the low level execution challenge the there's a much lower skill cap (the game has less depth).

The exact same thing applies to fighting games and RTSs. Those genres also have some very deep games for the same reasons Quake is deep.

>>348660
The problem is that as a simulation of real combat, Quake is ridiculous. Real war is won by, you know, camping, stealth, laying traps, that sorta thing.

Perfect Dark not only has a massive focus on strategy, but there is massive headroom for player improvement when it comes to choosing the best weapon for a situation, movement, etc. Half of Quake's tactical options involve jumping in some way. By removing this highly unrealistic aspect, Perfect Dark creates a different breed of FPS.

The lesser players get pwned by Darksims.
Experienced players can barely hold their own.

With PD, a master strategist can dominate the game despite being barely able to hit an elephant at ten paces. It's grounded in the reality of combat. Quake is a sterile competitive parody of fighting. Can you win a Quake match without ever firing your weapon at an enemy? No. They're different kinds of depth.

Interestingly, Quake is American. Americans are big on competitive sports like baseball and football.

Perfect Dark is British. Brits like cricket. Slow paced, cerebral stuff.

>>348728
It's not supposed to be a simulation of real combat. Real combat isn't fun at all. Real combat also has less tactical depth. Simo Häyhä, the best real life fighter of all time, only got 505 confirmed kills. Put a pro Quake player against average guys and he'll beat that ratio.

Also cricket sucks, with the possible exception of 20-20.

>>348798

That's like saying Guitar Hero is better than a realistic simulation of guitar playing because it "has more depth."

It's all taste, isn't it? Depth is subjective. Look at all the people who failed to notice that you could intimidate enemies into dropping their weapons in Perfect Dark. Basic game mechanic, and they didn't notice because they tried to play the game as a dumb shooter.

>>348830
Guitar Hero has less depth than real guitar playing. There is more difference between the greatest real guitarists than between the greatest Guitar Hero players.

There is nothing subjective about depth in games. Depth is literally the extent to which skill is rewarded. It takes zero skill to notice you can intimidate enemies in PD, you can look that up in a strategy guide.

>>348372
Cool man, thanks a lot! I'll try it as soon as I can.
Mind if I ask you if it works on the combat simulator as well?

>>348850
>There is nothing subjective about depth in games. Depth is literally the extent to which skill is rewarded. It takes zero skill to notice you can intimidate enemies in PD, you can look that up in a strategy guide.

Except it wasn't listed in strategy guides. Half of the stuff in Perfect Dark is barely documented. It takes a lot of skill to exploit the fact enemies surrender if their team mates are killed and they are wounded. You can use this to take out whole rooms of enemies by disarming and wounding. And trust me, it's fucking hard. In fact, Perfect Dark is one of the hardest FPS games ever made, for some people. Especially when they try to play it like quake and charge the enemy, promptly getting gunned down.

>>348860
>>Mind if I ask you if it works on the combat simulator as well?

Can't remember, actually. It MIGHT if the simulants are on your team. But I don't play combat simulator all that much. It might be that they follow their preset behavior. Peace Sim, Dark Sim, Normal Sim, etc.

>>348890
We have wikis full of obsessive fans now, it's all documented.

>>348913
>We have wikis full of obsessive fans now, it's all documented.

Trust me, it's not. Sure, I've tried to correct some of this, and others, but PD is simply not all that well documented at the moment. And video evidence? You generally have to make it yourself. Try finding a video demonstrating how Dark sim behavior differs from Perfect sim behavior. AFAIK, doesn't exist.

>>348949
Even if there's undocumented behavior remaining, it does not add depth unless:
1. it's better than all the documented tactics
2. it's difficult enough that most players will fail to use it effectively

If 1 is false, nobody will use it and nothing changes. If 2 is false it could actually reduce game depth.

One of a handful of games that I went into it
with HUGE expectations and those expectations
got shattered.

>>341102
>even if Zero is an okayish game in its own right.

I have to disagree. Zero was so bad it almost ALMOST made the first one look bad.

>>349016
>I have to disagree. Zero was so bad it almost ALMOST made the first one look bad.

I was being generous. I think Zero gets a wee bit TOO much hate because Perfect Dark is so gobsmackingly awesome and people hate Zero for pissing on the legacy.

Anyone have more PD artwork? How about the one used in the UK N64 magazine?

>>349003
>One of a handful of games that I went into it
>with HUGE expectations and those expectations
>got shattered.

How were they shattered anon? What were you expecting?

pd64 originally was going to let you upload your face onto sims, but they dropped the feature

>>349151
>pd64 originally was going to let you upload your face onto sims, but they dropped the feature

Yea. Some claim Columbine, but since Rareware were British, this isn't very likely. Apparently it was just a decision. Same way they dropped a multiplayer map, a few multiplayer modes, and some other stuff.

>>349182
are there any remains of that dropped map? first time ive heard of it

>>349271
Nope, just an entry in the rom. There is a list of all the cool cut content found in the game, though:

http://tcrf.net/Perfect_Dark

Both PD and GE had this Borg cube used as a placeholder model. Weird.

>>349481
Nigs.. We gonna start talking about Goldeneye/Perfect Dark GS editing/hacking/hex values now? I could go on for hours on that stuff.

>>349752

It's just a shame the thread will be pruned within 12 hours or so at best. I wish people would discuss more about the inner workings of PD, because most just resort to "OOOH, IT'S GAMING VOODOO!"

Reading this: http://tcrf.net/Perfect_Dark/Unused_Content_By_Level/Area_51

It seems the Main SOS bonus mission was really rushed, so much that it used the wrong assets for stuff likes barrels and PCs.

>>349271

From Cutting Room Floor Wiki:

A text string found alongside those used for the other Combat Simulator arenas is all that remains of Rooftop. According to Rare, "it was not up to scratch."

Rare were kinda like Rockstar games with their obsessive quality control. They even delayed Perfect Dark a few months in order to ensure it was as bug free as possible, and they polished up the PAL version even more.

Oh man, I remember Goldeneye having so many quirks and so many excellent Gameshark codes, Perfect Dark was the same as well?

>>350583
Well, a lot more of the debugging stuff had been removed from PD compared to Goldeneye, but PD has been extensively reverse engineered.

It turns out there is a lot of dummied out stuff on various missions. For example, in the G5 building there are glass panels and barrels which can be re-enabled with a rom hacking tool.

This is pretty cool - 1999 beta footage of Perfect Dark E3 build. The E3 build had some interesting stuff which was removed\altered in the final game,

Ah, screw it. Forgot the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR5Jcf6oIoA

There.

>>347979

>>>/v/

Your welcome