/vr/ - Retro Games

>>3450096
Which is the "worst" depends entirely on your preference in terms of platforming. All three sonic games have very different level designs

>>3450096
More fun than 1.

>>3450102
Not really. Sonic 1 at least had actual platforming and no casual spindash.

>>3450129
But that's a Knuckles game, not a Sonic game.

Can people just admit that all Sonic games were at least good? Where did the meme "Sonic 2 sucks" even come from? The game looks and plays great. It has its so-so moments towards the end (like Metropolis and the whole boss sequence), and the bonus stages/Super Sonic really do suck, but why would anyone claim it was the worst game of the three is beyond me. Emerald Hill and Chemical Plant were amazing, an most of the other stages were at least decent (albeit with some annoyances).

Megaman 2 was the worst Megaman

Ocarina of Time the worst Zelda

Ff7 the worst Final Fantasy

DKC2 the worst Donkey Kong

Super Mario 3. The worst Nes mario title

How did I do OP? Did my psychic powers accurately predict your worst games for those respective series.

>>3450159
>Megaman 2 was the worst Megaman
Wrong. 8 takes the cake here.

>Ocarina of Time the worst Zelda
Retro Zeldas only? Sure.

>Ff7 the worst Final Fantasy
Nah, 2J and 8 are worse.

>DKC2 the worst Donkey Kong
Nope, that's the best one.

>Super Mario 3. The worst Nes mario title
Yes. Mario 3 has some shite level designs.

Thread is fucked. Abort.

>>3450141
I love Sonic 2, but it's the worst Sonic in the Classic lineup

>>3450191
>2J
Stop pretending this is early 2000

>>3450141
> Bonus stages/Super Sonic suck
Now that's what I call edgy

>>3450230
This isn't the '90s-internet role-playing subreddit?

>>3450237
((No this is where we roleplay a post-Y2K apocalypse))

>>3450248
> Post Y2K Apocalypse
You do realize if we couldn't fix it we'd just roll all the clocks back to sometime in the 80s to buy another twenty or so years, right?

>>3450254
Considering how important timestamps are, it would take only one "unmarked as post-y2k" document to wreak havoc.

>>3450263
Woah woah, nobodys talking about marking all the timestamps.

We're talking about regressing society to 1980, so we bring back the then current president, reinstate all TV programs, etc. and relive the most glorious decade humanity has ever known.

Sure beats the 2000s.

If your ranking isn't 3&K > CD > 1 > 2, then you literally have shit taste.

>>3450234
I mean only in Sonic 2. Halfpipe is bullshit, it's tedious, unpredictable, and Tails ruins it every time.

>>3450270
>2000s
You're living in the past pops, it's the 2010s now.
It's fine though.
Soon we'll be able to re-live the roaring 20s.

>>3450325
Good one.

>>3450138
It's a Sonic game with Knuckles as the main character.

That's like saying Shadow the Hedgehog isn't a Sonic game.

>>3450191
>Wrong. 8 takes the cake here.

I want this meme to die.

>>3450191
>Megaman 2 was the worst Megaman
It's one of the most remarkable in the series.

>Ocarina of Time the worst Zelda
>Ff7 the worst Final Fantasy
Agreed.

>DKC2 the worst Donkey Kong
>Super Mario 3. The worst Nes mario title
Here's where you went full retarded.

1>CD>2>3&K>S&K>3

>>3450290
CD was the fucking worst of the classic Sonics. Dropped everything fun about the game's platforming, momentum, movement and gameplay just to have slow, long levels and CD music.

>>3451336
>he doesn't enjoy methodical Sonic

Get a load of THIS plebian.

>>3451342
Momentum in platformer = fun gameplay
Even Mario devs knew this better than whoever made Sonic CD.

>>3451349
>momentum
Huh? Sonic CD has the same physics as the other games. It's just that there's an emphasis on exploration over linearity, and for speedrunning, knowing the optimal routes.

>>3451353
There's an emphasis on stopping after each jump you make is what there is.

>>3451336
>CD is slow and boring
I have no idea why people keep saying this. All of my time attack records in CD are between 0.30-1.30, and that isn't using any skips or tricks. There are some stages that don't have as many diverse routes as 2 or 3&K, but otherwise CD plays exactly like the other classic Sonics.

Is OP actually the biggest faggot on /vr/?

>>3450109

Platforming that didn't use momentum physics or curved surfaces.

I.E not sonic.

>>3450096
S&K is actually

>>3451492
S&K was the superior half of Sonic 3, though...

>>3450678
You're probably one of those faggots that thinks DKC is a Mario game because they're all in the same extended universe.

>>3451517
>no Hydrocity
>no Ice Cap
>Sandopolis

>>3451536
Marble Garden and Carnival Night were ass.

>>3450678
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_teoi60bt4&t=2m

>>3451364
I don't usually tell people to git gud. But git gud.

My only and big problem with Sonic 2 is Sky Chase. I have a blast with every level, but replaying that auto-segment? Fuck that. I just skip that shit through the level select
>>3451368
Always loved the japanese soundtrack, but the first time I actually tried to play was on Gems with the USA soundtrack and hated. When remake happens I started to understand how CD works and started loving. Also, how I could use normal spindash made the game even better, instead of that roll tha takes some seconds to finally dash.
>>3451558
You just need to get the right paths and shortcuts. Both levels have many hidden paths and ways to go around

>>3451605
>Fuck that. I just skip that shit through the level select

So you play the whole game and when you get to Sky Chase, you reset the console, go to the sound test to get the level select, or what? Sounds more bothersome than just playing through sky chase which is a short intermission level.

>he doesn't try to up his hi-score by killing enemies in chains

>>3451610
Input level select code and go there, start from Emerald Hill, reach Sky Chase, press start+a button, go to the level select, go to wing fortress.
I do this with S2 because I like to play the classics pretty often. It's like when in some playthroughs I dont give a fuck about the emeralds.

>>3450096
yes it is

The zones seem a little too lazy in Sonic 2. Always felt like they were just trying to show off SPEEEED a bit too much in that one, while Sonic 1 is a pure platformer and CD/3&K try to fuse in a puzzle/adventure aspect.

>>3450096
Thats not Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

People that dislike 3&K just couldn't git gud at Carnival Night and Sandopolis.

>>3450096
It's really obvious how hacked up and rushed the game is after reading about the cut content. The level progression makes zero sense (chemical plant obviously is supposed to be a later level, the second level shouldn't toss at you bottomless pits, platforms that can crush you, long underwater sections... all at the same time). The special stages clearly weren't designed well as the delay with Tails jumping doesn't seem like it was made with the placement of spikes in mind.

Really, people parrot 2 being the best because it's easy to say "the sequel is the best because the first game is too primitive and I also love being a contrarian hipster faggot who can't admit Sonic Team continued to improve and that S3&K really is the best but God help me if I'll ever agree with a popular consensus on anything"

>>3451760
People who think Sandopolis and especially Carnival Night are hard really should move to a different hobby. I fucking suck at video games and still understood how to beat those levels for the first time playing them when I was 8.

>>3451772

it's not about difficulty, I personally find Sandopolis act 2 a slog to go through. I like Act 1 though.

Carnival is a clusterfuck, easily the worst of the pinball-themed levels in the classic Sonic games.

Spring Yard > Casino > collision chaos > carnival

>>3451784
Sandopolis act 2 is overlong, but it's not difficult.

And Carnival Night is fucking EASY nigger. In act 2 half the time you're funneled through tubes and shit, the only hard part being stuck in water for too long and not getting crushed by platforms. Act 1 is easy as shit, and if you can't figure out how to move the platforms through simple trail and error, holy shit stop playing games.

>>3451795

Can you read?

>it's not about difficulty

Sonic 1 is much worse. Lack of spin dash hampers the ability to create speed and momentum and there's lots of boring maps like Marble Zone

>>3451867
>Marble Zone
>boring
>he doesn't know all the shortcuts
>also needs spindash

spotted the turbo casual

>>3450323
Do people still not realize you can play as Sonic alone? Ive seen people say "Tails ruins Sonic 2" but he's not even required to play the game.

>>3451784
You need to learn the right paths in Carnival night act2. When you do you will definitely have another opinion about that level and amazed how much shit you can skip
>I personally find Sandopolis act 2 a slog to go through
Because of that mandatory sand section. Yeah, it is boring

Anyone else find Oil Ocean to be an even more boring slog than Sandopolis?

>>3451876
Of course I do know this, but it's just super annoying that you pretty much can't pick Sonic + Tails if you're going for the emeralds. I think it was simply overlooked by devs.

I feel that the halfpipe stages are very lazily made overall. I like those in 1 and absolutely love the ones from 3, but in S2 they feel like gimmicky 3D demos.

The truth about Sonic games:

Every game has its ups and downs.
Sonic 3 & K is the most spectacular one but only because it's cheating, fusing 2 different games. Playing 3 and S&K as separate games (as they were originally released), they may feel a bit underwhelming, or not necessarily better than the other ones.
CD was also spectacular in its own way due to FMVs, fancy soundtrack and exoticness. But very few people played it back in 1993. CD is often said to have bad game design, but as the other games in the series, it has its up and downs. It has some pretty amazing and memorable parts, and some shitty ones. Just like the other games.

My favorite is the one that has the least amount of parts I don't like, and that is Sonic one

>>3451889
I do feel Oil Ocean is much more bland and straight.

Sandopolis is much more complex which is great, and I can't say it's really bad, I just hate that it eschews speed/pinball physics for pushing levers/blocks and then racing to the gates before they close. What's more—at times you don't even see the gates, so you have to blindly go forward as fast as you can hoping there's one ahead. All the while you're ALSO in a race against the clock, because otherwise you will be haunted by ghosts.

This just doesn't feel very Sonic to me. I mean, it's good to have some variety—but the level just drags on a bit too long, in a game which gives you bonuses for speed.

>>3451909

>got a Genesis for the first time after years of SNES
>realizing your friend can play as Tails
>getting 50 rings and realizing the stars at the continue markers
>playing the bonus stages and wondering what the emeralds do
>after slowly learning the layouts of each special stage get all the emeralds and wonder what they do
>discovering Super Sonic without realizing he exists

I've had few experiences in gaming as good. The game gives you just enough clues to figure everything out without spoiling anything, you never need a manual or walkthrough. It's brilliant. And that's what Tails is for, the bonus stages especially. Yeah it sucks you can't get Super Sonic on 1P mode with Tails, but that's why you can turn him off.

>>3452597
You can get Super Sonic on 1P mode with Tails, don't believe everything you read on /vr/.

It has the worst special levels, CD has the worst regular levels, 3 has the best both.

>>3452946
Blue balls were shit, give me Sonic 1's bonus stages any day.

3&K > 1 > 2. Sonic 2 is just a fuckfest of cheap level design, a pointless furry character that follows you around, and all that without any saves.

>>3450191
>taking that bait

I used to come to this bored semi-regularly.

This thread reminds me why I don't anymore.

>>3452728
Prove it.

>>3453152
>bored

Don't come back.

Sonic 1 is boring in comparison to Sonic 2....faggot try hards will say spindash is easy mode, or speak of "real platforming"

News flash, Sonic 1 is easier than Sonic 2, the reason Sonic 2 is better is because it is simply more fun to play, not because it's any easier. Sonic 1 is still a good game, and was a great game for it's time, but Sonic 2 took what was pretty good and turned it into something better and more fun overall. Furthermore the argument that it's better because of "real platforming" is fucking stupid, if that was my main concern I'd be playing Super Mario, not Sonic, I like Sonic because it offers something different than the platforming conventions of old

>>3450141
>Can people just admit that all Sonic games were at least good? Where did the meme "Sonic 2 sucks" even come from?

For a long time and for many people it's considered their favorite, this automatically makes hipsters shit their pants and scramble for reasons to say other games that are maybe less popular are supeior

>>3453740
I agree. Sonic 1 is easy as fuck. Even Scrap Brain is a breeze.

My favorite Sonic game for the Mega Drive is Sonic Crackers

Beat that hipster faggots!

>>3450096
Nope, this is.

And it's still not a bad game.

>>3453801
Fucking casual. Go back to Call of Duty you plebeian. My favourite Sonic game is SegaSonic Bros.

I know you haven't even played it, because I haven't.

>>3450096
No. It has multiplayer. Playing with siblings and friends was the reason I played this the most.

>>3453815
Okay, you win. I'll commit sudoku now, and restore honor to my famiry

>>3450096
yes
/thread

>>3453814
Not a Sonic Team game, so it doesn't really count.

If you want a really shitty Sonic game, try out Sonic Blast on Game Gear.

>>3450096

All Sonic games are trash.

>>3450096
It is, but it's still pretty good

>>3450096
that's not Sonic CD...

>>3454314
>le Sonic CD is bad meme

Taxman's Sonic CD is literally the magnum opus of Sonic games.

>>3454318
It is though.

>>3454301
> contrarian opinion

>>3454318
>Filename
Kek.

>>3454318
>le
Oh for fucks sake.

>>3450096
It is? It's my favorite.

>>3454981
It can still stay your favorite, it only will mean 4chan will hate you.

>>3455004
Not 4chan, just a bunch of contrarians on /vr/.

Is this seriously all this board is these days, obvious bait threads that are just "my opinion > your opinion" that everybody falls for?

Sonic 3 has way more annoying gimmicks that drag down the flow.

sonic 1 > sonic cd > sonic 3d > sonic 2 > sonic & knuckles > sonic 3

Come at me bitches

>>3456904
>spin-offs
>better than the main games

OPINION DISCARDED

>>3454230
Fuck, I actually own that one on 3DS.
For some reason, the 8-bit ones didn't come to mind when I made the first post. What makes Sonic Blast so bad?

>>3458992
Sluggish controls, poor level design, horrid pre-rendered graphics to cash in on DKC's fame.

>>3458941
Are you implying that Final Fantasy Tactics, Bravely Default, 4 Heroes of Light, and Dissidia aren't great game?

>>3459069
He's implying that Sonic spin-offs are no where near the quality of 1-3&K.

Why did you bring up Final Fantasy randomly?

Sonic 1 (polished as fuck, started it all) > Sonic 3 (great gameplay, awesome music, great bonus rounds) > all the rest of crappy, americanized, poor excuses for a sonic game

>>3459075
Because it was 3 in the morning and I had two tabs open

>>3459289
>americanized
the fuck does that even mean

>>3459289
CD isn't americanised. It's got the best version of classic Sonic. And the JAP/EU music is golden. The American tracks are garbage and show how whenever they do americanise/edgify him it's shit.

>>3459373
US CD music isn't edgy, it's very laidback and ambient. Stop trying to shit out reasons to hate on based America.

>>3459392
This, both sound tracks are great. When I play the XBLA version I switch them frequently. IMO the best tracks are.

Palm tree Panic - JP
Collision Chaos - US
Tidal Tempest - US
Quartz Quadrent - JP
Wacky Workbench - UP
StarDust SpeedWay - Either, both are great
Metallic Madness - JP

>>3459392
>Reasons to hate America
Sonic CD US Music
Sonic cartoons
Sonic Spinball (good pinball game, shitty Sonic game)

>Reasons why Japan and America working together is best
Sonic 3 & Knuckles

>>3459667
Adventures of Sonic was hilarious, sorry you lack a sense of humor.

>>3450687
my friend had a PSX when this game came out. But his memory card was destroyed. It was an absolute bitch to beat that game without saving.

>>3459667
Sonic Sat Am was a decent show!

>>3459694
PINGAS

>>3459529
>Collision Chaos - US
OVER THE FUCKING LINE.
How can you not love the beat heavy Bad Future music?
At least both versions have the great Past Music. But that's why I hate the US music, JAP/EU has the same beat that changes and remixes through time, US is just a bunch of almost randomish tracks.

Why is Retro Remix so damn good?

>>3453152
I feel you, but it's a sight better than the eceleb bullshit

>>3460938
Eh it's the same garbage.

Should I use my "Popular franchise is shit" bait and attract a swarm of "ur rong" faggots or should I use my "eceleb bait" and attract a bunch of "they're shit" faggots.

Meanwhile the "quality post" bait goes unused.

>>3461632
Why is thinking Sonic 2 isn't as good as the others considered bait?

I have 1,2 and 3 and have always had the opinion 2 > 3 > 1 from when I was a child continuing to the present. 1 feels primitive and slow, 3 has fuckhuge stages that bore me. 2 is my favorite, all yall that argue otherwise can suck dick

>>3461640
Cause people take op as saying it's a shitty game that is other wise held in high regards. Take something that has widespread critical acclaim and bash it knowing that someone will take it personally, like "anyone that likes the godfather is a fucking retard who can't focus on something fast paced and actually good."

I know that's not what op did, but a majority of posters on this site jump to conclusions like that quickly with no other thought than "you attacked something I have a very strong opinion on." They either get defensive or they believe it's bait because somebody can't have their own, very different opinion.

I think what op meant was, "I think sonic 2 is the weakest game in the series" but to just read it you get, "at least one of the sonic games are bad but sonic 2 is the most bad."

But really it doesn't matter what he meant, the point he's trying to get across is, "the other sonic games are all better than sonic 2."

>>3450736
3&K>1>S&K>3>2>CD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4

>>3450102
this i mean sonic one is ok but I agree with this.

>>3450096
no it's obviously cd. people just ignore because muh overrated as shit soundtrack

>>3461946
What's wrong with CD? Sonic one has an exploration/speed bend to it. 2 took the speed and downplayed the exploration, CD took the exploration and downplayed the speed. It's different cuts of the same meat.

The S3&K took both and perfected it.

>>3462021
THIS.

People that like 2 also probably like that shitty boost gimmick in the newer 3D games.

>>3462021
what's wrong with cd? maybe it's that half the zones feel like metropolis from 2. maybe it's that it's more recent than 2 but feels excessively watered down and outside of the sound quality doesn't at all take advantage of the hardware. maybe it's because a pallete/music swap is the main defining mechanic of the game. maybe it's because metal sonic is a copout antagonist that in the end gets killed by a wall. maybe it's that amy is just pink femboy sonic and somehow got carried forward into the games today. maybe it's whacky workbench's existence.

idk anon it's a tough one

>>3462031
2 is second worst

>>3450096
i dont agree

>>3462043
>Half the zones feel like a Metropolis
You mean half the zones resemble a decrepit shitty mechanical future? It's almost like the game has some sort of message, or even Aesop, about unchecked technological progress without consideration of nature.

>Doesn't make full usage of technology
Did you know most Sonix games have special stages? In Sonic 1 and CD, they an be reached by collecting 50 rings and reaching the end of a level. Sonic CDs are particularly interesting, they use a significant amount of Sprite scaling and realtime polygonal processing of 2D texture floors, something the Genesis was not completely optimised for at the time.

>Biggest feature is music changes and palette swaps
Ignoring there are some (admittally minor) changes to level layouts, you're complaining that a game has music and different colours? Some every game that isn't Pong is inherently shit?

>Metal Sonic is a copout and Amy is a bad character
Metal Sonic is evil Sonic and the hardest boss in the game. I refuse to believe you beat him more easily than any other boss, especially if you weren't good enough to reach the special stages. All evidence implies he should have been the final boss. Amy is, again admittally, pretty undeveloped, and merely serves to be the damsel in distress. The game could have probably done without her, but she's developed into a decent, if a little fanservicey character (I don't just mean sexually, I mean the idea that a women will relentlessly persue the co guy you're meant to project onto).

>>3462181
wtf i didnt mean thematically. i'm talking level design here

yeah i know about the mode 7-ass special stages. not sure how they justify the hardware either considering they just feel like busted super mario kart stages

i'm talking about the time travel mechanic

>hardest boss
it ain't even a boss fight. just some shitty "race" where sometimes he rockets behind you and starmans your ass before you have time to even dodge. barring that though nahhh it ain't hard.

its funny cause i dont even disagree that much with what you're saying here but it has like nothing to do with what i was saying

>>3462458
>It's just race
Yeah, it's a change in gameplay where you have to learn an opponents movements and pattern and overcome it. That's is a boss fight. What, because you don't directly attack him it doesn't count? That's bullshit. It's one of the hardest bosses in the game, and yeah it's a little shitty compared to other bosses, buts it better than the final boss. And the whole race aspect is meant to be a challenge of Sonic's bigger strength, his speed. I personally love it, because it's actually hard and not a war of attrition when trying to keep 1 ring in stock.

>Special stages are just mode 7
Yeah, and that was using the Sega-CD hardware to its maximum capacity. That's the best it could do (well that and redbook audio). So yeah, it's obvious from a technical standpoint it didn't sell well.

>>3450096

This is never popular opinion but I feel sonic games aged badly. In retrospect the games are more gimmicky and tech demo for genesis. The gameplay is shit and the speed is mostly illusion unless you memorize the level except for some parts that are automatic.

>>3462552
>Yeah, it's a change in gameplay where you have to learn an opponents movements and pattern and overcome it.
wtf have you played it recently? metal sonic just clips through everything and the only real obstacle is you getting caught up on upward curves and letting him pass/hit you. there's not much in the way of strategy and a lot of the zones in other sonic games make for much better speed-based "wars of attrition" than anything in cd especially that "boss fight"

>>3463438
You have to keep up lest Eggman one-short you, you've got to get ahead and try stay ahead (you can actually avoid him when he does his boost), you have to factor in the best time to jump, avoid doing it on slopes lest you bound run into Eggman, and you have to find the best time to make a break for the finish so you win.

It's much better than "get behind him and kill him in two seconds", "just a fucking game of pinball", "hit him when he swings low", and "just hit him a few times while he spins."

I do like the conveyor belt one though. And the light flies are a fun mini-boss.

>>3464135
thats just the same trial/error shit you get with any other zone in any other sonic game.

people only like that "boss fight" because of the concept of fighting metal sonic. the actual execution is as uninspired as it could've been

>>3464262
It was race. I can't think of any other Genesis-era Sonic game that has a race as a boss. It's cool and fun and actually challenging because there is an obvious pattern until you see the whole level, and by then you've probably won so it doesn't become overly repetitive. It's more inspired than any other boss fight that generation.