/vr/ - Retro Games

OP here, just realised how much I used the word "good", what a fag...(slightly drunk)

>>3421846
> It was fun to play around in the map editor but the textures became quite limited after a while.

You can achieve any theme you want with DN3D's stock textures.

The beauty of Build, is that you can do a lot with textures. You can use floor/ceiling textures on walls and vice versa (unlike in Doom), you can even use textures as sprites (and vice versa). Then there is a lot of reedom given to texture alignment and repeat (stretching or shrinking the texture), as well as transparency effects, and different colour palettes.

On top of that, DN3D's textures are very versatile.

Look at these for instance:
http://www.scent-88.com/reviews/H/happyhang/happyhang.php

http://www.scent-88.com/reviews/S/sieb/sieb.php

http://www.scent-88.com/reviews/R/roch8/roch8.php

http://www.scent-88.com/reviews/J/jac/jac.php

This is just a sample, but it's one of the reasons why it's a lot less common for DN3D maps to use custom textures than it is for Doom.

Is Eduke32 the best way to play DN3D nowadays?

>>3422292
Eduke32 is the only relevant source port and arguably the best way to play DN3D.

>>3422341
It's a shame that it doesn't have proper multiplayer yet.

>>3421846
How floor textures cover the floor?
I mean, what's transformation formula?

>>3422341
XDuke is okay, in a ChocolateDoom kind of comparison. Multiplayer is also flawless, but only P2P, like the original.

>>3422484
I don't know, but it only changes based on your rotation value. If I had to spout some random ignorant buzzword, I'd say "orthogonal".

>>3422484
Maybe this will help answer your questions. Check the different parts, too.

http://fabiensanglard.net/duke3d/index.php

In any case this is a great read for anyone.

Who can guess the most amateurish mistake with this map?

>>3424576
I'm guessing something performance related because the FPS is 7

>>3424576
Must be between the lack of shading, the crampedness, the rectangle shape of the room, or the texture use which is at the same time repetitive, unfitting, and way too often overstretched.

Also on the top right of the screenshot, it's not a good idea to have 2 sprites overlap like this. They'll clip through each other.

This is a good start though. Keep going. Just please don't make the mistake of going for overdetailed crampedness as a main goal, DN3D has too much of that already.

>>3424576
Also, it looks like you're mapping in 32bit video mode. Have you made the sprites you use for construction one-sided? This is less of an issue in 32bit, but in classic 8bit video mode, sprite constructions with non one-sided sprites will tend to clip through each others depending on the view angle.

If you really are getting 7FPS it might be a good idea to use 8bit video game anyway.

>>3424817
>>3425575
The answer was actually proportions, I fucked them all up and Duke looks like a baby. This has happened so many times and I just can't get used to it. Don't worry about the map, it's not a serious attempt, more something that I wanted to do in my free time (it's taken from another game) although I'll probably expand it later on, right now I wanted to try an original design for another map I have in mind.

>it's not a good idea to have 2 sprites overlap like this. They'll clip through each other

I know, it looks okay on 8bit since there's no heavy z-fighting.

>>3425620
>Have you made the sprites you use for construction one-sided?

Now this is probably something I need to be aware of and encountered on my 8bit testings (along with the fact non-power of two flat horizontal sprites look glitched in the original renderer). How do I make them one sided again?

>If you really are getting 7FPS it might be a good idea to use 8bit video game anyway.

It actually runs slower on 8bit, and EDuke32 in general, I get way faster results through XDuke even though sometimes it's just as slow. Can't be helped, I run on a toaster, but the EDuke32 guys should really go easy on the bloat, I recall earlier versions and even JFBuild/JFDuke32 to be far more easy on my hardware. This is a 1996 game we're talking about, I'm mostly tempted to run it in NTVDM (I have XP) to make sure it doesn't chug.

>>3426057
>Can't be helped, I run on a toaster, but the EDuke32 guys should really go easy on the bloat
you're the map maker. It's your responsibility to make it run smoothly. Sometimes (very often, in fact), that means cutting complexity. That's a key aspect of map design that lots of retro makers completely forget about or dismiss

>>3426057
Yeah well proportion isn't something you can notice from an editor screenshot, especially from that angle. But you'll get used to it. At first I used to constantly test anything I'd make in game to see if the proportion was right.

making sprites one-sided should be 1 (not the one on the numpad).

Weird about EDuke32 but I've heard someone else having the same issue with a shitty laptop. Maybe try older versions of it, although I wouldn't know how far to go back.

http://dukeworld.duke4.net/eduke32/synthesis/

>along with the fact non-power of two flat horizontal sprites look glitched in the original renderer

This was fixed in EDuke32. Many small things like this are fixed or improved in EDuke32. Although it's things that aren't listed anywhere. Some may not even be intentional for all I know.

Good luck with your map.
One thing I suggest for spritework is, rather than taking one sprite and stretching it a lot, put several ones instead. mapster32 made spritework a lot easier than it used to be, for instance you can select sprites and copy/paste them, and they'll be pasted on top of it with the same values, meaning you won't have to edit its height again.
Also for floor aligned sprites, you can use texture mode in 2D mode, it can help a lot (press backspage in 2D mode).

>>3426071
Yeah well, look at that screenshot, it's nothing demanding. He shouldn't be getting 7FPS by any means. It's not like it's full of polymer lights.

>>3428582
has there ever been a more satisfying enemy to kill ever? or even an enemy you love to hate so much? i fucking love these idiots.

>>3424576
No Otacon pissing in the closet

The PC version of Powerslave needs more love.

>>3429902
Damn I didn't even realize that.

>>3426057
Another game, huh? It's that ninja...

>>3421846
How do I get into making shit with the build engine? I have no idea where to start.

>>3431343
Download http://www.eduke32.com/

Mapster32 is the map tool, which is like an advanced version of Build.

http://infosuite.duke4.net/ <- This is likely the best guide there is around for using build. Don't worry if the colors look wrong on the screens, he's using the stock Build.

If you're already into DOOM mapping, most things are the same but you seriously need to learn button combinations and the various stuff if you want to get serious, Build always lacked in the GUI department.

Though don't be frightened, the original game even had a WAD2MAP converter so that you could go through the entirety of DOOM maps in Duke3D, they're that similar in tech.

>>3431462
>Though don't be frightened, the original game even had a WAD2MAP converter so that you could go through the entirety of DOOM maps in Duke3D, they're that similar in tech.

That converter is a fan made one, you make it sound like it came with the stock game.
And it doesn't mean anything, you can make a converter for anything. Someone recently released a converter from Build to Quake II, and there are plenty other converters like that around.

>>3431343
>>3431462
Also on top of the infosuite, you can have a look at the mapster32 wiki. It helps when you're looking for the right keys and key combinaisons to press.
Unlike with Doombuilder, Build editors still use the same old interface with the same old keys and key combinaisons to press which may seem non user friendly at first for someone in 2016. Don't let that scare you.

Also, you said Build engine, but what game specifically? While the basics are 99% the same in all Build games, they also each have their own effect system. For instance if you know how to make a door or an elevator in DN3D, that doesn't mean you know how to make one in Shadow Warrior or Blood.

DN3D with EDuke32 and mapster32 is your best bet as not only you have a lot of freedom for modding, but they've added tons of small things that make it easier and faster.

>>3432676
>you make it sound like it came with the stock game.

Except it did? I'm talking about the 1.3D CD here, definitely came with mine. There was also a WAD2ART in the same directory.

>Someone recently released a converter from Build to Quake II

I've seen that thread, and it's nothing to write home about yet. But props for trying I guess. Doesn't that Doom and Build don't share the same basics.

>>3432996
Well okay, some wikia says WAD2MAP came with Atomic Edition CD 1.5

It definitely didn't come with my version of 1.3 so perhaps it depends on the region as well.

Though I find it hard to believe Doom and Build share the same base, especially considering the development of Build started before Doom came out, but I'm no expert.

>>3433245
they share the same base in the sense of walls and floor elevations, with build having a superset of features. That's sufficient to make smooth transitions. Contrast with, say, Quake -> Doom. An automatic converter would be ridiculous, because it would have to handle irregular geometry and intelligently map it down to what Doom can do

>>3433269
> Contrast with, say, Quake -> Doom.

Well it's not like there is a Build to Doom converter either.

>>3433282
for the same reason. It's why I said build has a superset of features. Doom has a hard time doing slanted floors. You can try to emulate it using stairs, but it's very difficult to automate that in a useful form.

>>3433285
It's not just the 'features', I was thinking more about the way Build renders the environment, which allows for several floors on top of each other (as long as you can't see both at the same time; unless you use tricks like Blood or Shadow Warrior did).

>>3433269
Damn, a conversion of Strife to the Build Engine could have been made, since they lost the source code for that game anyway!

>>3433245
Took the CD so I could check, it's inside D:\GOODIES\WAD2MAP

There's also a TXT file inside that cements these tools being written by none other than Ken in August 1995, almost a year before the game's release.

>DOOM -> BUILD Notes (8/17/95):

>WAD2MAP.EXE and WAD2ART.EXE programmed by Ken Silverman

>Hello BUILDers:
>I made a DOOM to BUILD converter. It's not perfect, but it works pretty
>darn well. I thank Matthew S. Fell (msfell@aol.com) for providing the
>unofficial DOOM spec where I got most of my information from.

>There are 2 ways you can use my converter programs:

>1. Converting doom maps using DOOM ART.
> This method is useful for viewing a doom map in the BUILD editor
> or for viewing the artwork in EDITART. Remember that if you wanted
> the game to run with doom's artwork, you may as well play the real
> doom! (And Apogee wouldn't want that to happen!)

>2. Converting doom maps using DUKE3D ART (or your own art) & TAGS by
> using a script file. To convert maps using this method, you can
> run WAD2MAP.EXE with the additional script filename parameter as
> described below.

There's also a tool that creates translucency values for the DOOM palette or something. Never really tried any of these programs, but I definitely remember them.

>Though I find it hard to believe Doom and Build share the same base

It doesn't really share the base CODE, but they operate on similar technology. If you read Build's history, you'd know Ken started storing maps on an interconnected grid system, then he actually had a phone call with Carmack which told him about his sector idea from Doom and how it would be better to just stick with those, and that's what he did. Yes, Carmack was responsible for sectors in Build. The rest is all Ken's. My point about idtech1 and Build being similar was just assuring him in case he already worked on Doom and thought he needed to relearn everything for Build.

>>3433486
>Took the CD so I could check

So is that 1.3 or 1.5?
You said it came with 1.3 but some wikia says 1.5

Also what region? I'm 100% positive it didn't come with the 1.3 release in France.

>>3421846
A buddy and I spent like 6 weeks trading the same map files back and forth, making the ultimate sky scraper. As I recall we pushed our own limits pretty hard in the end.

>>3435559
It's 1.3D, Italian version (published by US GOLD) but I doubt it makes any difference, and by that I mean I don't think they had different pressing masters for each region, and just went with whatever disc 3D Realms gave them. Why don't you check your GOODIES directory? It seems really odd that it wouldn't be there.

>>3435637
>It's 1.3D
it's 2.5D

>>3433486
>Yes, Carmack was responsible for sectors in Build
Well
I'm keeping being excited by Carmack