/vr/ - Retro Games

>>3428734
>trilogy
Deadly Shadows is NOT RETRO.

>>3428746

Close enough.

Do taffers think this design looks stupid? Should bugbeasts look more like horrific demons than humanoid aliens?

>>3428789
too curvy

JOIN US

>>3428746

Most of the Fanmissions I tried on those lists were kinda bad. Calendra's Cistern was frustratingly bad to navigate, Disorientatio made me lose interest after completing 75% of the objectives, some missions like Hand of Glory were too easy, Ominous Bequest was kinda boring.

Maybe I just picked the weaker ones, but I had more fun playing Invitation to Castle Morgoth, even though that one was brutally dark.

>>3428982

The 7th Crystal is probably the best one in that list.

>mfw I realise sword is the tool, blackjack is the weapon

>>3429185
>mfw I played through Thief 1 not knowing the sword makes you more visible to enemies
No wonder i had such a hard time the first time.

>>3429194
Constantine's will not.
Watch out for those arrows though

In Calendra's Legacy you can get a magical dagger that makes you blend in the shadows better than without a weapon drawn

>>3428734
>Would you a Youtube channel where I ironman ghost through the series in 1080p 60fps?
Sure. Are you going to talk? Just don't talk constantly and don't have an obnoxious voice. Youtube could always use more high-quality playthroughs of games IMO.

>>3429231

I don't talk. Nobody should talk over Stephen Russell. My upload of Bafford's is almost done. I'll post the link when it is.

>mfw I just died in the Bonehoard
>after getting the Horn and Soul
>fell to my death in the magic missile shaft in the Heart dungeon

>>3428789
Stupid sexy bugbeast!

>>3429237
You can talk, provided you don't do it over guard chats or Garrett quips.
Fen upped the ante and tried mimicking how characters would sound when going through their readables. Some might consider him over the top/obnoxious, but a lot of his playthroughs are pretty comfy.

On the other hand, Ironman is not easy. You might want to focus and not lose your shit.

>>3429290

I've also edited some of the unused Garrett lines into appropriate situations.

>>3428746
>REE NOT RETRO
Then talk about the two games that meet the cutoff date instead of being a spastic trying to police the board. That's what reports are for.

>>3428746

>16 year old game is retro
>12 year old game is not

Name a modern gaming bullshit mechanic that Deadly Shadows has that Thief 1 or 2 don't.

>>3428928

>>3429231
https://youtu.be/FLICW04REQY
It seems that it takes a while for the 1080p 60fps to become available. All I'm seeing right now is a blurry 360p

>>3429406
Nice stuff you made there.
Somebody uploaded 640x480 cutscenes on ttlg, if you want to use those

>>3428982
There's a huge amount of missions, and I don't agree with all the choices on that list either. I've found that the ones I enjoy most are older, simpler missions that tend to not get mentioned much. Lorgan's Web is one of my favorites.

>>3429063
7th Crystal is fucking lousy.

>>3429393
delete this

>>3429063
>>3429446

I'll give it a try. Hell, Order of the Vine was on one of the lists and I was just annoyed by how cryptic the riddle right at the start of the mission was.

I'm just trying to get my fix of new Thief material. I must have completed all three games at least more than a dozen times.

Why is the third entry in the series often considered the worst? I felt that it was the strongest one, story-wise. It gave sense and direction to the plots of the earlier games, while resolving the whole Keeper-prophecy mystery in a satisfying way.

You know how at the end of Thief 1 Artemus hinted at books that Garrett should see, at the new age coming, while being incredibly cryptic and secretive about it all at the same time? The whole corruption plot of three tied it up really nicely. Way, way, way more satisfying ending to an epic storyline than you'd get in any game, past or present.

>>3429476
added unnecessary fluff about those assassins(which are a fucking abysmal concept attached to keepers) being ready to off garrett ever since he wanted to leave the keepers
faction system is retarded and shits on previous allegiances
the keepers are pants on head retarded in general for the sake of a palpable storyline
Watching the ending of Thief 2 really makes me wish we had an actual, honest, Siege Engine powered, no bullshit Thief 3.

>>3429445

Where did they get higher res cutscenes?

I know it's not retro, but have you guys tried the Dark Mod?

>>3430306

I've played it. It's a pretty amazing accomplishment by the dev team, but it's missing good mission content. I can count the decent missions I've played on one hand.

The main problems with Thief 3 was the small areas with frequent load screens and also the movement of Garret felt jerky and imprecise compared to Thief 1&2 where it was smooth.

>>3430310
When was the last time you played it? You know there's a lot more of content now, I suppose? Plenty of new missions by new mappers and veterans alike.

>>3430392

probably 18 months ago

>>3430504
That's quite a while. Try Crucible of Omens, the newest Accountant series and Penny Dreadful along with the latest version of the mod.

>trilogy
Thief was a duology.

>>3428982
>Disorientatio made me lose interest after completing 75% of the objectives
You're fucking crazy mang.

Rooftop climbers are always entertaining to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6tK-Xt7mVY

>>3428734
>trilogy

There's 4 ya know

>>3431498
There was never a 4th, what are you talking about?

>>3429341
Not sure if it fits the bill, but one thing I hated about deadly shadows was the 3rd person mode, and that it even felt like the game's physics were designed with it in mind, making 1st person mode feel clunky.

Any of you taffers play Unreal Thievery? Just found out it got a massive update 2 years ago after 8 years.

Goddamnit I'm trying to transcode my Cragscleft footage but Mediacoder doesn't think 651GB is enough free space to work with. What the hell is going on? The resulting video file should be less than 1GB.

>>3429559

I disagree.

Why wouldn't you want to keep around powerful enforces to ensure that acolytes don't leave the Keepers and blurt out all their secrets? All it would take for the Keepers to be found and destroyed would be for an acolyte to reveal the secret of Keeper glyphs.

> faction system is retarded

Kinda. I thought it was way worse that you were given extremely vague instructions on how to garner their favour. Until a year ago I never knew what cornerstones to shoot with a moss arrow.

> Keepers are pants on head retarded

When? Most of the time they acted rationally. In fact Garrett kind of acts retarded when he wants to "stop time" by stopping the Hammerite Clock Tower. Telling Garrett not to do that wasn't retarded at all, since he had a) already pissed off the Hammerites enough, and b) would pose a major threat to houses and inhabitants of the city.

Gamall's scheming was also low-key and intangible until it was too late. Also the entire plot of Keeper corruption made sense and resolved the former 2 plot motions. It's the synthesis to the thesis and antithesis of 1 and 2, Nature and Technology respectively.

Both powers trive to overcome the other, as is made clear by Constanine's scriptures in Escape! and the New Scriptures of the Master Builder. Constantine wanted wilderness, darkness, fear, hope, fire, and nature to make a big return in the world. Humans should fear what lies outside their campfires, and not live enclosed by stone walls.

The Mechanists, or more specifically Karras, wanted to build a new world order of steel and brass. Organic life had no place there - once again the people of the City would be depraved of their power to choose, the power to shape their own destiny.

In Thief 3 Garrett reveals that the Keepers tried to keep their hold on the City not by using natural force or technology, but by secrets. Who watches the Watchmen? Well, only one who has been part of them, and has enough distance to stop them. 1/2

>>3431498
stop spreading lies

>>3431803

2/2 contd.

The reason why it might seem that the Keepers are retarded (for lack of example provided) may just be that they can't see the big picture. They can't see that they have grown dependant on their power, that they are off balance. They rely on the glyphs, not on their skills, and they cannot let the City rule itself. Garrett acts as a protector because he acts in self-interest. The Keepers act as a protector to uphold their own power in shaping the City's destiny, corrupted by the glyphs.

None of the Keepers would be able to see the big picture and use the Final Glyph until it was almost too late. Garrett, having no attachment to the power of glyphs (since we never saw him use any before Thief 3 made it necessary), could.

I can never get the hate that Thief 3 gets. Looking at it from a Hegelian Dialectics perspective, it's the perfect ending to a 3 part story arc if ever I saw one.

>>3431803

The enforcers would have been a good idea, but they ruined them by making them talk, and their AI was a mess. Secret assassins of a super secret club shouldn't go around murdering people on the street. I think they should have been trying to hide from the player and even their footsteps should have been silent.

The faction system has many major flaws. Firstly, Garrett can ally with one or both of them, even though he's a sinful violator of many tenets of the the master builder, and he's a dirty manfool who murdered the deity of the pagans.

Secondly, all you need to do is some random meaningless chores to get them on your side. It's not even side quests. You just do things and points get added to your score. Nobody is walking behind you recording your actions. It's all too arcadey and unimmersive. The world of Thief is supposed to feel like a place, not a level.

Thirdly, pagans operate in the City. Inside manfool structures of metal and dead stone and wood. They even wield steel weapons. In the original concept art from 2002 or something, there was a pagan village deep in some distant forest swamp. The only reason why pagans are inside the City is that Ion Storm wanted a contrived City Hub and faction system.

when I drew this, I never actually questioned... how the taff does Karras get his head into that helmet?

>>3431924
With a hammer and a lot of patience.

>>3431498
not retro go v.
i think not bad old lore.
game is suck.

>>3429341
load screens inbetween half levels because muh xbarx
context sensitive backstabs/knockouts
no rope arrows - stupid gloves instead
smaller levels especially tiny overworld again because muh console release
garret turned into scared grimdark edgy murderer (at least visually)
using unreal engine and cramming all the extra mechanics in rather than building a dark engine 2.0
loot glimmer

>>3431810
>>3431513
You can't run from the truth, anons

>>3432176
is this a photoshop?

>>3432176
I thought that was an unofficial fangame that costs money? Not actually an official Thief game.

I wonder when Square Enix is going to have their next deep sale on Steam so that I could finally force Valve to buy me Th4if for 8.50€ with trading cards money? I want to finally get around to writing my 'objective' review of the game where I simply list every single thing the game did wrong, comparing each aspect to their counterparts in 1-3.

...Finally got done converting my Cragscleft footage. While starting the upload I noticed that ad revenue for my Bafford's video was claimed by NIИ's record label due to a part of a song. Fortunately I don't care because 50 views makes no one money. Still, I wouldn't mind a beautiful alternate future where the UN declares the use of "Content ID" a violation of human rights, and even the last pointless record companies starve to death due to their own obsolescence, and music producers can start making money directly.

>>3432176
FFFFUCCCKKKK YOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

>>3432176

>>3432176
HEY FUCKER, I'M GOING TO THE FUCKING BEAR PITS TOMORROW, YA WANNA COME WITH?

>>3434096
NNNNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

>>3434096
Pshh, couldn't pinch my nipples hard enough.

>>3428734
Are there still Thief threads in /v/ or is that place truly dead?

>>3434252
You can still get a decent Thief thread on /v/ from time to time.

>>3431803
Thief 3 is a great game but no one can deny its a step back. Even when it tries to maintain the tone, the writing and cutscenes are just off compared to the masterpieces both 1 and 2 are.

Which are not perfect games no, but are truly from another time, I personally loved Thief 3 even with the dumb down, Bioshock was another story fuck that game and the normies that ate it. System Shock deserved better.

>>3434287
As far as writing and story go, Deadly Shadows is miles ahead of The Metal Age and its plot holes everywhere, which was also quite a step down from The Dark Project's simple but expertly told and delivered story.

>>3434337
Agreed. I guess the level design and dark engine colors my view of Metal Age.

Nevertheless yes, Dark Project as an amazing storyline and incredible cutscenes.

My hype was just too fucking big, I imagine what a level like the Keepers library would have been on the dark engine.

>>3434337
>>3434345

Also forgot, despite good graphics for the time, I guess Theif 1 and 2 just leaved more to the imagination. Thief 3 art style is a bit weird as well. Again not bad.

Razorfist brings up the good points it had.

In my dreams the city looks as bizarre and gargantuan as in the cutscenes.

NOT Retro Games.
Suck4 :I get only old ( thief3 after ) lore.
Disonard :Not Thief. Multi ending is not Thief. Deny Assassinate is spoile game play , not deny Snekey Thief Like Play.
Styx: Assassinate like game . but OLD Thief like Multi Play Style.

>>3434287
Yeah. I didn't mind Bioshock 1, but its definitely an inferior rehash of System Shock 2. I far prefered Bioshock 2 for having its own story.

>>3434663
I kinda enjoyed Dishonored, but it definitely had lackluster stealth/nonlethal gameplay, and was overall too easy. Kinda interested to see if the sequel will fix these issues.

>>3434337
IIRC, Thief 2 had its levels designed first, and then story added later, Where as Thief 1 had its levels designed specifically to fit the story.

Here's my Cragscleft ironman ghost run (minus zombies. taff 'em.)

https://youtu.be/mZKX3M2Xrfk

>>3434762
Yeah I know, and it really does show. To be honest most Thief 2 levels aren't even that better designed than Thief 1's, and most of them feel bland because the backstory applied to them is pretty generic in the end. It was a loss-loss situation I think.
I may sound harsh with Thief 2 but I still love the game and it has a few really brilliant levels.

I have simple job plan for this evening. Break into /v/, start another Thief thread and leave quietly. Lord Summer is out of town and the rumour has it that the mods went with him, as a bodyguard. So the time is ripe for a decent thread. The front page is always full with non vydia threads, and /vg/ is far to exposed.
But Cutty tells me there's a better way in,around to the side, more out of the
way. Only regular Taffers, and likely no shitposters to...complicate matters. The piece Cutty wants is a decent thread,good arguments, the usual adornments. It
should provide a good discussion. Lord Summer, like most of his kind, probably keeps his
best threads on the top floor of the catalog. Close to his heart, and far from his
his console peasant servants. No point in waiting... I have Cutty's old sketches of the place, and every underage
who's going to be asleep inside already is. It's time to begin.

Since I'm in here I might as well pick up something for myself...

>>3435706
any more art like this?

>>3435840

Umm... sure. It's by me. :D This one is from 2011

>>3435840
>>3435869

And this is from 2009. Back when I didn't even have a drawing tablet.

>>3435869
>>3435879
These are really good. Do you still do them?

>>3436017

Haven't done things related to Thief in a long time. The last one I made was for Morrowind I think. And Jedi Knight.

>>3436017
>>3436159

Oops, I did have at least this one

>>3435879
A bit more crazy lamp posts and more a little evidence of steampunk and neoclassic buildings, a hammer churc in the distance and it would be perfect. Would not even need Garrett.

I love the style

>>3436214

There is a hammerite church in the distance, to the left. However there are no smokestacks. That's a technical limitation of Microsoft Paint You can't really add smoke using my workflow. Transparent things are always a problem.

Is Thief the only game to get steampunk right? Every other "steampunk" game I've played always felt short to me.

>>3436278
Well Arcanum is done tastefully if a bit more generic. its not faggotry levels.

Thief is just too good.

>>3436278
Play Arcanum

>>3436278
When people think steampunk, they always think of top hats, airships and stupid goggles and other stuff that doesn't need to have mechanical parts in it but does because muh steampunk. The thing that Thief does right is that the tech is practical, not aesthetic. There's enough of it to keep things running. Not so much that the whole world looks like a machine. Even in some of the levels of Thief 2 that revolve around literal techno-zealots.

The only character in Thief that wears steampunk stuff on him to that overblown extent is Karras, who has a steam-powered exoskeleton to help his old bones move. A creepy brass spider strapped to his back with its limbs stretching out to his arms and legs.

>>3436278
Wachenroder did it pretty well.

>>3436281
I'd hardly call it generic when there's really no other game in the same style that I know of.

>>3428789
I think it'd look better with some of those digitigrade legs

>>3436371
I think my design is actually beyond digitigrade. Plantigrade foot stands on the heel, digitigrade stands on the ball, and the bugbeast stands on the next joint past the knuckle. The feet are supposed to be useful for hanging from branches or beams, to ambush prey from above.

>>3428789
Needs to look more mantis-y and less like a hot girl in a costume

>>3436394
Yeah I suppose it's suffering from the Mass Effect syndrome a bit

>>3428789

Looks bad.


They should be more alien looking and dirty.

>>3432176
Well done, I didn't even notice. Although unless this is a female, I would make the asscheks a little less pronounced.

Is Bonehoard the first casual filter of TDP?

>>3436974

For me Cragscleft Prison fucking amazing level design already left me breathless.

It flows so well. Can spend hours on it.

>Started playing for the first time back in March
>Get to Return to the Cathedral
>Still haven't finished the game

>>3436974
That would be Cragscleft. Bonehoard is the second.

>>3437102
Are you using the patch ? Especially important because of EAX , makes the sound effects much better.

What do you think of Thief?

>>3437114
I used some kind of patch, sound effects overall have been really crisp.

When you say "Thief", do you mean Thief or Thi4f? I've enjoyed the hell out of the former so far, minus a couple spots where I felt the missions dragged a bit. Return to the Cathedral seems kind of obnoxious, but maybe that's just because I don't know the mission well enough to breeze through it.

As far as the reboot, I don't really have an opinion. Haven't played it, probably won't until I've gotten around to beating Thief 2 and 3 first

>>3437129

I literally cannot name a single thing that Thi4f didn't do badly compared to its predecessors. It's supernaturally awful.

Holy fuck I just Ironman Ghosted the Thieves Guild. I feel like I just aged 30 years and developed cancer. Tell me something comfy. :(

>>3437620
Escape is harder.

>>3438036
I know. I don't recall ever being able to properly ghost it. On Expert you need to pass the room with the bugs and the frogs.
Fortunately demons can't write police reports so tactically ghosting in that mission is totally pointless.

>>3431568
Been playing it a little recently. I wonder if the devs made melee attacks fucking garbage on purpose to encourage stealth? Feels like you have to hug people to do anything. Really unsatisfying.

>>3431568
I don't like the idea of multiplayer guards vs thieves stealth. To me an operation is a failure if someone discovers you're there, and in multiplayer that happens as soon as the game begins. Guards are actively searching for intruders that they can't possibly know are there. They might as well just have alarms blaring everywhere from the start of the game.

>>3437620
What does 'ghosted' mean in this context?

>>3437545
>mfw someone saved my recomendations
One day I will replay all fanmissions and update this

So I figured out how to turn off the texture filtering in Thief 1&2, because i'd rather see crunchy pixels than a blurry soupy mess, but it fucks up the shadows and makes them all blocky. There is no way around this is there?

>>3440512
For Thief 1 - play with software rendering

>>3440541
Yeah, the game didn't like that at all. Guessing this has something to do with TFix where the game is using the Thief 2 engine or something.

>>3440512
Sadly I don't think there's a way around. I tried fiddling around with these settings to no avail.

>>3440541
Doesn't work anymore under ND.

>>3440608
Well crap, you'd probably think the modders would have tried to preserve the original look. I guess a hand selection of "HD" textures it is then. Feels kinda dirty.

>>3428734
So what exactly are the optimal sound settings? 48 channels? Hardware acceleration off, on or the one other option that I can't remember right now? EAX on or off?

>>3440628
You can choose not to install all the fluff when you run TFix (which I highly recommend), this will give you graphics very close to the original. Just not software mode.

>>3440981
I'm aware, but without some of the fluff everything looks like it's covered in vaseline, which just isn't a preference of mine at all. Some things look better than others(like the mountain rocks of cragscleft look horrible), which is why i've stuck to choosing textures from the various sources that still appear faithful. I'll take the slight hit to consistency if I can't have pixels.

>best Thief 1 maps
The Sword, Lost City

>worst Thief 1 maps
Thieves' Guild, Mage Towers, Undercover, Maw of Chaos

>>3440628
>>3441026
I want to specify that I won't just take a texture because it's higher res or anything though, I still value the original aesthetics above all and only wish to enhance them where possible. Like look at the pillars from the EP pack, way too dark. Same for the statues embedded into the cathedral as well. Doesn't look right.

Didn't use the window texture in the other image because I kinda like the weathered look. The blurriness between is what I meant by consistency however.

How can people use whole packs like these is beyond me. Butchery.

>>3441061
>Favorite T1 map
The Haunted Cathedral (Ruined city)

>>3441084
That one was super spooky and good.

>>3441084
I actually really like the undead/monster levels because i don't feel guilty using all the shit that's in your possession, unlike when going against standard humans.

Human level? Guess i'm not using my sword or bow for anything except taking out torches.

Makes for more like a survival horror kind of deal. Couldn't really appreciate those levels until the second time through however because I wanted to be a THIEF. Expectations can mess shit up.

>>3441061
>best Thief 2 maps
Precious Cargo and Life of the Party

>worst Thief 2 maps
Masks

>underrated Thief 2 map
Shipping and Receiving

>>3441061
>Best Thief 1 maps
Song of the Caverns, Break From Cragscleft Prison, The Sword, The Haunted Cathedral, Assassins

>Worst Thief 1 maps
The Mage Towers, Strange Bedfellows (though they're both alright, just not as good).

>Underrated Thief 1 map
Down in the Bonehoard

>Best Thief 2 maps
The Unwelcome Guest/Life of the Party, Masks, First City Bank & Trust, Blackmail, Sabotage at Soulforge

>Worst Thief 2 maps
Kidnap (by a long shot), Casing the Joint, Precious Cargo, Ambush, Trace the Courier

>Underrated Thief 2 map
Running Interference, despite its simplicity. Strangely eerie atmosphere that's pretty much unique to this mission.

>>3441445
>Precious Cargo
>bad

>>3441151
>Masks

I feel this and Casing the Joint would've been far better if they were only one map.

>>3439869

Well, you're supposed to play without being detected and without knocking out anyone, but Thieves Guild sucks so much ass that it's got some mandatory knockouts. The guy who's guaring Reuben's house key and Donal's chef. You pretty much can't sneak around them., especially since they're non-combatants who will most likely flee and alert the guards if you so much as make a noise to distract them.

I did my best in the worst mission. I haven't uploaded the footage yet because it takes ages to render and convert. It's over a terabyte of raw avi.

>>3441075

I have yet to see a good texture pack for Thief 1 or 2. Instead of making higher res versions of old textures, they always replace them with things that look nothing like the original.

And games with such a low max polycount, high res textures don't really fit all that well anyway.

>>3440753
Anyone? I really have no clue.

>>3442252
Max channels, and then try which acceleration setting works best. I think EAX works pretty well with the NewDark engine.

>>3432158
Deadly Shadows has a shitty engine in general. Even with the new DS Gold mod which removes loading screens and fixes a bunch of other problems it still feels like a chore to play through.

One thing DS has going for it is an incredible atmosphere though.

Does anyone even still make fan missions anymore? The recent ones are some years old by now.

>>3442380
Are you high?

>>3442160
Yeah the level itself is great, but making it two levels was kinda lame.

>>3442580
I liek both of them. Casing is like an easter egg hunt with light resistance, whereas Masks is a quintessential Thief level. I don't think I've ever managed to find all of the hidden coints in Casing.

anyone into FM's right now?

I was playing 7 shades of mercury and the first 2 golden guards see me right when I step into the light, even if they're in the other side of the room with theit vision covered by a mechanical contraption

am I doing it wrong or is there any known bugs?, lokking in ttlg forums or the mission notes gave me nothing

>>3443456
There's a switch to turn off the lights in that room. Luring these guys away with the noisemaker inside a case nearby is also a good strategy.
The thing is that you have to keep in mind that NPCs can see through solid 'objects' (which are models as opposed to worldspawn brushes), so they can see through tables, machinery, etc.

>>3443785
amazing that the mission has a wonderful presentation but that see through thick heavy solid items still exists

thanks btw

>>3443820
It's not the mission, that's how the Dark Engine works. Thankfully with NewDark you can have reliable sight blocking with objects.

>>3440512
How did you turn off the texture filtering in ND?

>>3442206

>>3440512

Aren't light maps just textures anyway? If you turn off texture filtering, the light maps become unfiltered as well. Blocky pixels = blocky shadows. I like playing Half-Life 1 in low-res and no texture filtering

>>3434354
>Razorfist
>Ever saying anything that remotely deserves attention

>>3444547
But how do you unfilter the lightmaps in Half-Life?

>>3444552
Razorfist is an old skool TTLG member and I've had plenty of good discussions with him. He's himself when talking about Thief. He's that obnoxious character with aviators when reading a script and ranting about other things.

He makes great comic-book style pencil drawings as well. He has made several of Thief. His dA account is deactivated though.

>>3444591

Hmm... I tried it out just now. It seems that even though I have filtering disabled in Half-Life, it still filters the lightmaps. Apparently in Thief the filtering affects every texture.

So to answer your question: I have no idea how to unfilter the lightmaps in Half-Life. I only found one filtering setting and it only affected normal textures.

What do you guys suppose Benny's real name is? In Thief 2 he's called "Benny" and in Deadly Shadows he's called "Sinclair". Based on those I think is full name is "Bernhardt Sinclair".

>mfw Bafford's basement guards, Donal's guild entrance guards, Gervaisius' yard watchmen and the TDS patrol officers are the same two guys

>>3444595
>Razorfist is an old skool TTLG member
Huh, I had no idea about this.

I still think his youtube stuff is cringeworthy, though.

>>3436278
Chaos Engine is an amazing steampunk shooter. Also Banshee for Amiga.

>>3444623

Yeah his nickname was Captain Spandex and he used to post his artwork on the Taffer Art thread.

Found more of my Thief MS Paint art. If anyone wants to make a pixel art Thief game, feel free to use.

>>3444597
But how did you unfilter thief?

>>3445074
I'm actually not the anon who managed that. I haven't played unfiltered Thief since 2000 or something. No clue.

click clack click clack
little clicky feet :3

PLEASE BE WARNED

>Uploading my video of The Sword
>5 minutes left
>Browser crashes
>No option to resume
>2 hours 50 minutes left
>mfw

The Sword is up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBDhPmAe6Zs

>>3446863
Watching it just for the comfy sounds.

>>3447294
Don't watch the Thieves' Guild then. There's nothing comfy about that.

>>3447680
I always liked the thieves guild. Just a little maze-y is all.

>>3444037
tex_filter_mode 0 in the Cam_ext

>>3444037
tex_filter_mode 0 in the Cam_ext

>>3448296
Nice. Shame about the shadows, but it's nice to know. Wonder if it's possible to get right...

I figured out another thing that Deadly Shadows did better than Thief 1 and 2

>Water arrows make significant noise upon impact and putting out torches alerts enemies

>>3431883
The point about the enforcers is true from a lore standpoint, but it's also just a minor aspect of the overall composition. Negligible flaw compared to the overall plot and direction of gameplay.

The game needed a bigger threat within the City areas to intimidate the player. Dodging the City guard becomes incredibly easy after a while, and we needed definite proof and reminders that the Keepers were after us. It works from a gameplay point of view.

I don't see that much of a problem with the ally system. While it's bizarre that you can ally with both, it's not unreasonable. Both factions offer you a deal seperately. It's not like they are in commincation with each other, and both aware of the beneficial acts that Garrett performs for them. Also the best way to improve your status with them was not to do the busywork, but to fullfil a side quest for them, like burning or planting the sapling, and helping or hindering to bury Alfred.

Yeah the point about the pagans being in the City is kind of convincing, but let's not forget that the pagans also operated inside the City in Thief 2. It would be hypocritical to bash Thief 3 for having pagans within the walls while ignoring the fact that pagans were being driven OUT of the City in 2, therefore requiring for them to live there in the first place.

>>3434337
>>3434345

And that was all I tried to say with my original comments. I'm not trying to dethrone the first two games in any way, but I feel there is a lot of unnecessary, irrational hatred directed towards the final game, which is actually a great and epic ending to one of the greatest video game franchises of classic PC gaming. And I'll repeat myself: Thief 3 gave sense, purpose and direction to the plots of the first two games. Without 3, the first two games would be kinda just generic plots about how the forces of nature and the forces of technology try to take over the world.

>>3449243

I was under the impression that only a few pagan agents operated in populated areas out of necessity because of the threat posed by the mechanists. It's the same thing with the City Watch's hostility towards Garretts and Garrett-like objects in Thief 2. Karras ordered a hit on him. Pagans are nowhere to be found in Thief 1, and cops don't bother Garrett on the street. Pagan agents are spying on key targets and cops are out to lynch Garrett on orders in Thief 2. -As opposed to Deadly Shadows where pagans are in the city because the game has to have a contrived faction system, and cops are out to lynch Garrett because... well probably because the game's technical limitations prevented his unnecessary 3rd person model from having his cloak so his burglary equipment and weapons are clearly visible at all times. Oh, and there's also the 4th wall break of Randy Smith ordering wanted posters to be stapled all over the City, depicting a thief who only the developers and players have seen and whose existence is in question.

So the justifications in Thief 1 and 2 are lore-based, and the ones in 3 are that it's a game and on XBox and fuck you.

Okay taffers, do you remember... how much City monies is this loot in total?

>>3449856
I´d say about... 25 Gold, 25 Silver and 25 Copper.

>>3449891
How much in g for all of them? Dark Project era exchange rates.

>>3449856
25 gold
12 silver
5 copper

>>3449980

Correct

>>3434337

What plot holes did TMA have?

>>3450061
-Karras wants Garrett dead why?
-Viktoria's monster assassin had Mosely's keys why?
-Dead mechanists in the lowest heart of the Maw of Chaos
-Gervaisius has a precursor argicultural instrument in a special display for some reason
-Viktoria's earth curse conveniently failed to keep her working with Garrett and vice versa just before the Soulforge operation
-Soulforge's main doors are hermetically sealed but there are 8 open elevators to the roof

Those are ones I came up with because it's my favorite game and I remember it inside and out

>>3450101
- Mechanists know of the Lost City and know how to use Precursor technology how?

>>3450173
Well, Garrett did open the keeper door under the river to Karath-Din. Nothing prevented the mechanists from getting down there. And if the hammerites were able to harness the power of the stars themselves to produce electricity and literal holy blessings, then it isn't too far-fetched that a technologically superior group could repurpose millenia-old tech. The paper made by the precursors is so durable that you can still find documents from before the quakes. There were probably scientific schematics and formulas too in the areas the mechanists excavated.

>>3449365

The absence of pagans in Thief 1 is more of a plot hole I'd say. The scriptures that Constantine leaves behind describe the new world as one without a belief in him, as if there were no humans who worshipped him anymore. Consider this: All the guards in Constantine's Mansion turn into apes and those green beasts. There's also frogbeasts, spiders and fire elementals, but no humans. In Thief 2 you see pagans living in abandoned houses (like in the outhouse of Truart's place) and on the streets, being harassed and incarcarated by the Watch. And the Watch as an instituation also seems to be an invention of T2, as the guards you meet on the streets in T1 seem to be aligned with the local lords and would therefore only attack you if you posed a threat. The one patrolling the streets at Bafford's does attack you if you bump into a second time.

In Thief 2 the Watch wanted you dead as well. Truart wanted you gone, because Karras wanted you gone. In Thief 3 the Watch is still an organised instition, trying to lay down the law on you because Garrett regularly burgles, robs, and assaults people.

I don't get the whole Randy Smith thing, but I'll shoot down the notion that Garrett is THAT elusive. Going by in-game lore, at least the criminal underworld is fully aware of Garrett's existance, and would squeal about it when questioned. Let's not forget that you collect the Hand of Glory from Issyt, and help out Basso the Boxman twice. Going by gameplay-canon, the chances of never getting caught are basically nigh on 0. Every player gets caught from time to time, and that means being seen. And especially by Thief 2 you'd remember a burglar whose got a scarred socket with a mechanical eye, that's quite remarkable.

Running around without the cape was disappointing, but I can also see why they did it. Climbing with a cape on is a bitch, as would be swimming. Hiding weaponry and tools is also pointless since no one else in the game wears capes...

>>3450283
...so you'd look massively suspicious wearing one. It would be the equivalent of laughing manically while twirling a mustache.

Thief 3 was on Xbox, yeah, but it was also on PC. I guess you could lay the fault of missing features like swimming and rope arrows at that door, but I don't know. The climbing gloves weren't all that cool but at least you could climb structures that had no wood on them, and it felt more thiefish to scale the rooftops with them. In the end, rope arrows and climbing gloves have one goal: allow the player to move better vertically. While rope arrows have more versatility, they aren't necessary when the areas themselves - while well designed - aren't big enough to allow for climbing escapades like in the Bonehoard.

Also, how would the Watch have planned that hit on Garrett without knowledge of what he looks like or that he exists?

>>3450101
Karras gives some spurious justification of his wish to kill Garret in Soulforge, I think. He wanted to bribe Garrett with the mechanical eye to secure his allegiance, but of course he declined. So Karras, with his black and white logic, said that if he's not my friend he's my enemy. That's why he wanted to kill him. Spurious as fuck, but also expected from a megalomaniacal nutjob.

>>3450283

The pagan near Truart's house was an agent spying on Truart, not a squatter living there.

Karras wanted Garrett gone because reasons, which means that the Watch wanted Garrett gone because reasons. No reason is really explained. If there's anyone who would have a reason to get rid of Garrett it would be Ramirez, Raputo and Webster, the crime wardens of the City who don't tolerate freelancers on their turf.

Neither Thief 1 or 2 ever requires the player to get caught, and no consecutive installment ever assumes that Garrett ever did. TDS even goes out of its way to accuse Garrett of murder, by mentioning the two people that ever die indirectly because of him. And Garrett's eye was plucked out, not sliced off. He has no scar. It was only added on the ingame 3rd person model of TDS. It isn't even visible on the cutscenes of that game, let alone Thief 2.

Garrett and many others wear capes in all of the cutscenes of the trilogy. Garrett wears a hooded cloak for the whole trilogy. Again, the only exception is ingame in TDS (and Thief 2 -static model viewed through the scouting orb). It's a technical limitation. It's irrelevant to the lore.

>>3450319
> Karras wanted Garrett gone because reasons
>>3450313

Sure the game doesn't require you to get caught, and maybe that is the abstract canon of his character, but definitely not in a gameplay sense. But even then it's irrelevant since - like I said - the criminal underworld knows of Garrett, the Hammerites know about Garrett either since Cragscleft or explicitly since Strange Bedfellows, and Karras knows enough about Garrett to give him the mechanical eye, and Sammy enough to betray him to the Watch who definitely saw him and could give a description to Truart who acted on behalf of Karras to kill him.

To say that Garrett is such an elusive, enigmatic figure as to the extent that people generally question his existance is an utterly indefensible standpoint. It is simply not true. This also explains why the Keepers don't exactly like him. Garrett doesn't stay out of the affairs of the City enough to walk it unbeknownst like for example Artemus. And even THEN, Artemus implies that, while it is difficult to see a Keeper who doesn't want to be seen, it's NOT impossible. We can assume that people even periodically espy Keepers, although their identity would remain unknown to them.

It is not a far cry to say that the City Watch, after being properly established in Thief 2, would keep onto the idea of chasing a known and wanted burglar, robber and thief.

About the cutscenes: I'm very much inclined to agree with you on this one, but I also have to say that apperances change vastly over the course of the cutscenes themselves. Thief 2 kind of suggests Garrett to be a bit tanned, and have a crooked nose as if it had been broken. In Thief 3 he has an unblemished, milky pale face that can look young or old depending on which cutscene. Also the in-game cutscenes differ from the rendered ones. The in-game model cutscenes never feature capes at all, only robes and maybe a hood on Garrett.

>>3450351

And if we take what you say for being the truth, i.e. the technical limitations and therefore the absence of capes in the game being irrelevant to the lore, then we have to take Garrett's and everyone elses model only for metaphoric stand-ins. What we may see is a Garrett who fails to wear his cape, but in actuality, in the lore-abiding world he IS wearing one in the game, therefore nullifying the argument that it makes him inconspicuous. In the ideal lore world, he is wearing one after all, and the in game graphics are what shadows on the wall are to the sunlight outside a cave.

That is to say, if we go with a dichotomy between the homodiegetic gameplay experience (just the in-game graphics and representations, individual acts of the player such as getting caught and murdering people being canon) and the heterodiegetic ideal narrative that we can construct by looking at the rendered cutscenes juxtaposed with every other bit of lore we can gather from the game. But hey, we may be overdoing it here by now.

>>3450351
>About the cutscenes: I'm very much inclined to agree with you on this one, but I also have to say that apperances change vastly over the course of the cutscenes themselves. Thief 2 kind of suggests Garrett to be a bit tanned, and have a crooked nose as if it had been broken. In Thief 3 he has an unblemished, milky pale face that can look young or old depending on which cutscene. Also the in-game cutscenes differ from the rendered ones. The in-game model cutscenes never feature capes at all, only robes and maybe a hood on Garrett.

Garrett's face is different in every instance, to accentuate how sneaky he is. Even the player doesn't know what he really looks like. But what does remain consistent is his cloak. And you can't use the pre-rendered in-engine cutscenes an an example of an exception because they're totally inconsistent with everything. He has the (superior) outfit from the Thief 3 Beta, no glowing splinter cell eye, and no scar. The final version is the edgy bullshit you can see if you haven't unbound the 3rd person key from the options menu. And of course, those videos were rendered in-engine, in the engine that couldn't handle cloaks to begin with.

´>>3450358
>And if we take what you say for being the truth, i.e. the technical limitations and therefore the absence of capes in the game being irrelevant to the lore, then we have to take Garrett's and everyone elses model only for metaphoric stand-ins. What we may see is a Garrett who fails to wear his cape, but in actuality, in the lore-abiding world he IS wearing one in the game, therefore nullifying the argument that it makes him inconspicuous. In the ideal lore world, he is wearing one after all, and the in game graphics are what shadows on the wall are to the sunlight outside a cave.

Yeah you got me on that one. The absence of a cloak is not an explanation since it's just a technical limitation, and it's actually there. The Watch must be looking for a hooded guy with a brass eye. ...based on the wanted posters depicting a hooded guy with a facial scar. Well, it's dark so whatever. And cops are always prejudiced against people wearing hoods.

>>3450389
...pic related. -dem bracers.

>>3428734
>trilogy
Two games in not a trilogy

>>3431568
For this to work, I really feel guards really need some kind of objective than just sitting around guarding shit. So fucking boring.

>>3431568
I wanted to run a server of it, but my server computer can't run UT99 based games for some reason. Unreal Gold works perfectly.

>>3450389
I wouldn't way that his change of facial features indicates how sneaky he is, more like how intangible he is. It makes me think how much of a Gothic figure Garrett actually is. He is a little bit like Sutpen in Faulkner's novel Absalom, Absalom! in that he seems to be a collection of images. memories, rumours and stories rather than fully flesh and blood. Perhaps we can take Garrett's in-game model as just another iteration of this character, albeit a grim one.

I think calling the constantly cape-draped Garrett not edgy and the glowing splinter-cell eye one not is hypocritical. I'm sorry, but a guy who talks and walks like a grovel-mouthed, jaded, might-makes-right kinda guy who steals and sneaks around because he really has no home where he belongs is somehow NOT edgy? At least if we go by 4chans standards, everything that is just a little bit on the dark side is just grimdark edgy.

And let's not forget that having his eye ripped out can also be construed as edgy. The scar is certainly an extra touch, and the glowing eye can be viewed as exaggerated, but even in the Thief 2 cutscenes we see the eye has a bright blue colour that isn't exactly conspicuous either.

Maybe there is a canon, ideal version of Garrett (as I described in my last post), maybe he is - like Sutpen - a collection of different stories that has different visual iterations to go with. What I'm not buying into is the hate on what is a great game just based on some relatively minor aspects of the game.

>>3451653

Your points about Garrett's edgyness make sense, but Garrett is all those things in the trilogy, and all those things plus the visual over-design of the 3rd person model in the third game. The character didn't need that. It's just unnecessary decorations on something that isn't supposed to be seen anyway.

Garrett's eye is brass with a brass iris and green-tinted addonizio crystal lens. It's meant to catch light, not emit it.

I don't hate Deadly Shadows either. I'm just disappointed by specific aspects of it. This whole discussion began from nitpicking about plot holes in Thief 2 in jest.

>>3451676

It's cool, I'm just happy to discuss things.

The glowing green eye would definitely be a dead give-away if your job description is "be stealthy and steal shit." I'll have to retract my statement about his T2 mechanical eye being conspicuous. You've convinced me.

About jokingly nitpicking plot holes in Thief 2: I actually liked that post a lot, because I never really thought about those plot holes for all the years I've played the game. It's actually really great when a game is so good it can cache the holes in it's fabric that well. And the Thief trilogy is my favourite series of games of all time.

Looking at the changes from Thief 1 to Thief 2 also give a perspective on all the changes from T2 to T3, I think. One can easily argue that Thief 3 is kinda too easy when it comes to sneaking, gives you too much loot and too much space for tools to carry around. It's a little bit casualised in that respect, certainly. But Thief 2 did that too. You have way more health, there are no undead levels, you have way more starting gear, gear to buy, and loot to go around. I feel like that's ofent forgotten for convenience's sake.

>>3451834
>Thief 3 is kinda too easy

Aha! I got a list of things that make T3 more challenging. For better or for worse though.

-T3 has clunky controls that makes stealth less reliable because of the unpredictability of your movement
-T3 has less forgiving footstep volume mechanics when it comes to soft surfaces and running or jumping
-In T3 the AIs reactions to things being disturbed around them is often more severe than simply making a vocal comment
-Even though T3 lets you buy infinite amounts of tools, it actually has a carry limit. Something that Thief 1 and 2 doesn't.
-Too much loot is a direct consequence of instane loot requirements. Every mission requires you to get 90%, whereas the highest requirement ever before was 87% in Undercover.
-You can't use broadheads as cheap disposable noisemakers anymore in T3
-AIs can carry light sources
-AIs investigate missing loot, open doors and search known hiding places instead of wandering randomly
-Flashbombs aren't free knockouts
-Gas arrows have shorter dispersal radius
-Thief 2 doesn't give you more health on Expert

>>3451871
I agree with most points, except the clunky controls. I felt the controls were very reliable, especially when moving slowly across loud surfaces. It was more of a problem when you were in danger of pushing over objects in the world itself if you moved carelessly.

The thing about the insane loot requirements only applies for the hardest difficulty though. If you play on easy, and collect everything, you are a walking tank, a force of nature. I can see how people would criticise that. Whatever you do in the previous game, it's unlkely that you will acquire all of these in a playthrough on normal in one mission:

20 flashbombs
5 oil flasks
10 healing potions
5 flasks of holy water
5 mines
30 broadheads
25 water
15 fire
5 gas
25 moss arrows

etc. etc.

I could see where people would be coming from arguing that.

But I agree very much with the point about the lower alert threshold of guards and the difficulty of moving unheard and unseen. On the highest difficulty, Thief 3 becomes way more difficult to ghost than any of the other games, for all the right reasons.

>>3452518

The controls are clunky because it's all based on the 3rd person model animations. There aren't two different view modes, there's just the 3rd person mode and a variant with a camera on the face. A proper 1st person mode would prioritize movement over animations.

And nobody in the Thief community really cares about difficulties other than Expert. -Except when we're talking about Bonehoard which is basically 3 different levels depending on which difficulty you choose.

>>3450398
>in engine rendered cutscenes
The last thing that needs to go for Thief 3 to actually be a decent game...

>>3452548
I should rephrase that. It's already a decent game. It's (one of) the last things to go before it becomes a quite good game.

Also: some of the voice acting
And: just block off all the water so it's no painfully obvious how shit it is.

>>3452550

There are also a few things that I think were wasted potential:

-Pirate ghost ship that's just a small area in the city hub instead of its own spooky mission
-Introduction of aquatic fish-people in a game with no swimming
-Clock tower scaling mission in a game with no rope arrows
-Player is immediately given a statue-busting weapon to deal with the first immortal enemies in the series
-Loot glint in a game that finally supports shining materials to indicate valuables
-Keeper assassins heugh

>>3452568
Things are are actually fix-able though. You could expand the ghost ship. Loot glint has been fixed in use patches...
The rest is too ingrained to be changed.
It'd be nice, but for fix-able things I think we're getting close to the end of it.

The Tfix for Thief the Dark Project already brings some sort of texture enhancement, and a sound improvement for enviro effects.

Should I install the textures then?

>>3428789
I don't like it. I'd take some cues from the "prawns" in district 9 if I were you, making them look more like a creature than a man in a spacesuit.

>>3442206

The one that TFix improves are improvements to the original textures right?

>>3452670
There, so far, are no improvements to the original textures. The community canon texture pack is only like 65% done, and the thread is dead (buncha good textures there). Every high res pack is shit. Just ugly un-fit garbage. I did a small texture pack that replaced almost all of baffords manor, but I got burnt out and had other things to do... I gotta get back to it at some point, because Thief deserves a bit more love in that department, and i feel bad about abandoning the project.

>>3453447
I hope you do!

>>3453447
Please do, I really liked the Bafford pack you posted (aside from one or two textures that looked like plastic). There are far too many plebs out there playing Thief like pic related.

>>3453841
This looks so awful it's incredible.

>>3453841

Holy shit that game me flashbacks of ferns and bridges

>>3428789
That looks more like a power ranger than a Mantis.
I'd add the ridges along the arms and maybe back. Also give it a full mandible mouth.
nice ass though

>>3453860
Keep in mind that's the Hammerite temple which is currently ACTIVE AND INHABITED, not the haunted one.

>>3453882
No ferns, but the mod does seem to add some out-of-place trees throughout.

>>3453903

>>3432176
why bother posting a white image?

>>3453903
The best thing about this mod is when you play FMs with it. To hell with author intent and texture combinations.
I purposefully load as many texture families as possible in my missions so these mods crash the game if they're enabled.

>>3453905
What the hell is that cordyceps stalk growing out of the craybeast's head?

>>3453943
skacky?

I'm trying to "ghost" Escape now. What do you think? Which one is better? Going in Lytha style and running past the ones I can't avoid, or skewering those pesky spiders stealthily? On one hand, killing should be a no-no, but I think staying undetected is more important.

*sigh* Lytha does boring nuFallout letsplays these days

>>3454103
>these days

>>3454103
I always go for the full stealth route, including critters. Way more challenging but way more satisfying this way.

>>3453962
Yes.

>>3454148
oops. I didn't realize it was that long ago
>>3454190
Eugh. Apparently I'm not that good. I can stealth my way through the tunnels to the mansion but then it becomes a frogbeast nightmare. Didn't kill any humanoids though.

I just want to get Thief 1 over with so I can continue on to 2. At least Bedfellows and Maw are pretty easy compared to RTC and Escape. And also this time I've been thinking about doing Thief 3 as well. Maybe without the boring city hub sections.

>>3453447
Thanks, I want to play Thief 1 and 2 with only the patch and a couple of water and sky improv.

Didnt know if Tfix replaces textures completely, I tried both and it appears it just cleans them a bit.

I going to play with the patch on both.

>>3454220
It replaces a few, and iirc smooths out the sconces for no reason.

Water and sky are 2 things packs do well sometimes.

>>3454227
I must say quite an amazing game, holds up perfectly, just wish somebody would make the guards put the swords in their sheaths. Videogames really went to the drain.
The videos are marvellous, the tone is incredible. I have been delaying this for so much time dont know why, I did already play System Shock 2.

>>3454264

The guards can't put their swords in their sheaths because the sword is a physical part of the mesh. When Ramirez' servant brings him his booze, the character physically changes into a different mesh with a wine tray embedded into its hand, and it has different animations.

I played Thief when it was still a demo, but I didn't play System Shock 2 until three years ago. Then I facepalmed and wondered what the hell I'd been doing all those years.

>>3454190
Black Parade looks fucking great, I'm more excited for it than any actual upcoming game. Makes me want to get back into Dromed. Is there any special steps necessary to use TG Dromed? I tried it before but it acted differently from T2, and I couldn't figure out how to make anything work.

>>3454264
I held off from Thief for years after I found out about it and even after I played SS2 because I thought it would have a very generic kind of fantasy setting.

>>3454281
Unique experiences. I played SS back in the day along with all the others even obscure ones. I remember Hexen 2, etc. Somehow Thief only registered a bit later. Fuck this this is a fucking masterpiece. I am really entranced, no wonder its fan base and youtube retrospectives almost deify it.

>>3454287
Its far from generic, I have a friend who has played it to hell and back back then and now, now I know why his tabletop D&D chars are always variations of Garrett.

>>3454287
That screenshot is grotesque. Also, isn't it a bit stupid to change textures to darker ones, since it doesn't affect the light maps? Brighter-textured walls give off more indirect lighting than darker ones. If you change light textures to dark ones without re-rendering lightmaps, you will have dark walls reflecting unnatural amounts of light.

>>3454293
Once I actually started Thief and saw those buzzing streetlights outside Bafford's, I realized I had misjudged Thief.

>>3454296
I just love how it turns a wealthy lord's fancy bathroom into a dungeon.

>>3454307
Those textures dont really fit.

>>3454316
How about this one?

>>3454319
Fuck that modder.

Although she is my type. Pretty cute.

>>3454307
I wonder how weird it is to play the game with those trees and the NewDark engine, because in it those old blocky trees actually conceal you the way they seem to, as opposed to the original engine where the AI could just see you through solid objects. With those meshes you could literally hide behind a twig and you'd be perfectly safe like there's a huge boulder in front of you.

I heard you guys like HD texture packs.

>>3454324
>cute girls are my type
I don't think you're the only one.

>>3454287
Thanks! We're working hard on it, got a couple more missions close to completion since the last update. Right now I'm fighting with the cell limit on the third mission, trying to reduce them as much as humanly possible since we got a few things left to do. Shit's a nightmare but I'm hanging tight.

TG DromEd is virtually the same as T2's. The thing is TFix doesn't install DromEd so you have to grab it from the original ND releases and install it manually.

Something I noticed is that, when playing huge FM's like Death's Turbid Veil or King's Story, I get a lot of framerate drops. Is that a result of the Dark Engine's limitations or is my PC just that much of a toaster?

>>3454437
I remember being able to start up Dromed, but the interface appeared all fucked up. Guess I'll just reinstall and start from the beginning.

>>3454450
Lots of objects in view causes massive slowdowns, more than lots of world polygons in fact. Death's Turbid Veil is pretty simple in terms of world geometry but it has a shitload of objects in view.

>>3454287
Also, to give you a small idea. This is a top-down view of the first mission.

>>3454470
Any plans for a Bonehoard-style level in this? I love the crypts.

>>3454639
Maybe. Who knows?

>>3454639
Same. I shit my pants the first time I saw the fire dude too. Underrated level.

>>3454227
Which water is this? Best i've seen thus far.

>>3454993
Just that unfinished baffords one mentioned here >>3453447 >>3444037
http://www.mediafire.com/download/gy7c9lyh7ojnegu/SENPAI.zip

>>3455039
Oh. Thanks for the SENPAI senpai. This looks immaculate.

>>3455039
Ho shit. It filtered my fucking zip file name. Should read F A M. Seems to work anyway.

>>3454667
Yes. On Normal difficulty you get to play a dungeon crawler fighting monsters and the undead while hoarding loads of hidden treasure, and on Expert you get to play Indiana Jones navigating trap-filled halls trying to acquire precious legendary artifacts.

>>3453447
>>3453841
>>3453903
>>3453905
>>3454287
>>3454307
>>3454434

Those HD textures certainly have an aesthetic appeal, but they always have one major flaw that will always make them inferior to the original experience:

They look too clean. Almost nothing looks like it suffers the everyday wear and tear of the elements, time or usage by humans. Wood always looks like it's freshly chopped, sanded and oiled. Thus a wooden table always looks like it's never been used. Stone looks freshly quarried, metal looks like it's never been touched by the elements at all. Playing a game with a texture pack rips me out of the immersion because i am constantly reminded "Yes, I am playing Thief with a HD texture pack. Oh, there's another nice high quality texture, interesting!" etc.

>>3436634
kek

That level stopped me from playing Thief Gold for a long time. Those fucking nigh indestructible zombies and running back and forth to holy water fountain, man... Hammerite prison felt comfy after that.

I just wish there was a way to disable texture filtering but I can live with the OG textures. After extensively modding half-life for years I realized it looked like shit and just clashed with the rest of the game.

Anyone hyped for Underworld?

I might not be amazing, but if Neurath understands what made Thief and SS good we might have the beginning of something great here.

>>3457035
I had a voodoo 2 when first played Thief so my experience of it was always with texture filtering.

I wonder if no filtering would look better however, probably.

>>3457712
You weren't trying to stretch those textures to 4k either, you were playing at 640x480 on CRT so it wouldn't look as bad.

>>3457709
I am moderately hyped. They seem to be really focusing on emergent gameplay.

>>3457709
>>3457816
What game are you guys talking about? Googling Underworld only brings a game based on the movies Underworld from 2004

>>3457941
Underworld Ascendant, basically Ultima Underworld 3.

>>3457709
I think they're on the right track. They'tr focusing on what's actually important, contrary to AAA releases these days. Also, Stephen Russell is voicing characters again.

>>3438056
the thief series is probably the only games that have legitimately scared me

>>3453905
wew lad

>>3454148
Did she died?

>>3458202
>Looks up Lythajuliana
>Tongue cancer ;_;

>>3458202
>>3458214
From what I looked up. her last posts on ttlg forums were two years ago.

>>3458157
We already got Ultima Underworld 3 tho.

>>3458394
But Underworld Ascendant is literally Underworld 3. The name "Ultima" is literally the only thing that Otherside was not allowed to use.

>>3458394
Arx Fatalis is a really great game, don't get me wrong, but I felt that the diversity in playable characters is just not there, nor the focus on puzzle solving, dialogue and exploring.

Why does everyone hate the Mage Towers so much?

>>3458863
For me it's this:

> Emtpy as fuck level with disgustingly boring textures
> Generic four elements puzzle
> Who would work as a guard for a dangerous cult of mages?
> Who would work as a servant for a cult of dangerous mages? What are novices for?

Aside from the four towers, nothing about the level feels, looks or plays in a remarkable way, except for the statues in the library. It was a pain in the ass to loot, and everything felt like busywork to get to the next magic chotchkie to open the next tower to get to the next magic chotchkie to get to the next tower to maybe get the magic chotchkie you actually want.

>>3457035
>>3457712

You can >>3448296 and it does make everything look a lot better; especially up close, but you just have to get used to the blocky shadows.

Dark Camelot screenies have the blocky shadows too

>>3458157
>>3458467
any news on when?

>>3458967
There are Dark Camelot screenshots? Where? I've managed to miss every single one in 18 years.

>>3458308
I did a thorough search some time ago, and its more than likely she passed away.

If so, rest in peace girl.

>>3458967
Interesting

>>3442601
>I don't think I've ever managed to find all of the hidden coints in Casing.
Wait, there are differences between Casing and Masks when it comes to treasure placements? How come? They share the same map, don't they? The only difference is that you are limited to only one approach in Casing (nobody must see you and you can't knock out anybody), right?

>>3458972
So what would you classify these as?

>>3459360
>orge.jpg
ogres I guess...

>>3459305

There aren't any big treasures in Casing. There's just a shitload of coins hidden all over the place.

>>3459360
I would play that rpg so very much. The idea was brilliant but their ambition was too much.

Fuck modern devs are complete utter shit. No wonder I stick to /tg/.

I haven't played T2X in years. Is it compatible with the unofficial v1.19 patch?

>>3460252
It is. Follow the instructions at the bottom of this post: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134733
If you want the original look you can safely remove EP.crf and the senpai folder once you've unzipped T2XFix.

The Thief community really dropped the ball by calling fan mission authors "authors" instead of "builders".

>>3460384
And yet without a second thought you called them fan mission authors as well.

>>3460403
If I called them fan mission builders people wouldn't know what I'm talking about because nobody calls them that.

>>3460374
I got it to work. All you really need to do is move the t2x folder into the FMs folder and start the game using the NewDark FM loader.

The weird thing is that the slow tap-creep that lets you travel across loud surfaces really slowly, doesn't seem to be working. Garrett moves consistently and predictably, but Zaya seems to take steps randomly.

>>3460384
"Builders" is too partisan.

>>3460413
I think most people have enough reading comprehension to understand what you were talking about calling them builders, and if they don't you don't even want to address them.

>>3434096
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSBi9DFVpR8

>>3461065

>>3461265
Fake. That door doesn't even look like that in-game.

>>3461297
If it's fake then how is it right there in the picture :^)

>>3461265

I've played T1/T2 countless times and I've never seen this.

>>3461304
>>3461310
Clearly added in after the fact. Thief 1 doesn't even have people sitting down animations.

>>3461304
It's from a fan-mission called "Lorgan's Web" you enormous taffer

>>3428746
Anyone got opinions on Stones and Glass Houses and/or The Black Frog? TTLG forums are always good for hint discussion but short on in-depth reviews. I'm especially wary of longer campaigns so if anyone has tried The Black Frog please comment.

>>3454227
This looks amazing. It isn't the water enhancement that comes with tafferpatcher for Thief 2, right? Because I looked around before installing that and after seeing this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5yefcU8p04 I decided against it.

>>3461789
Eh nevermind. I should have read the reply chain before posting.

>>3461789
Shit that improves the water or sky are no problem, the sky one tafferpatcher works great on the original, however I never mess with textures.

>>3429406
never been able to properly play through these. hope you continue with the next games, very well done

>>3462624

I've already started doing Thief 2. I think I might also do T2X.

>>3461593

that's because ttlg is a huge circlejerk where saying anything that could be interpreted as criticism of a given mission is frowned upon.

I don't remember much of stones and glass houses but the black frog is pretty good. The city sections are kind of meh and take up 2 whole missions. The second mission which was a mansion mission if I remember correctly was the high point of the campaign for me and the mission in the ruins on an island was visually interesting but really boring. The last mission feels like a much improved remake of one of the author's earlier missions (emilie victor).

>>3462651
What's the general consensus on T2X? Haven't tried it yet, but I'm curious if it lives up to the original games.

>>3463057

Good level design and variety, decent voice acting, mostly* faithful art style, mostly lore-friendly, good new mechanics, stupid blackjack-substitute weapon, OP and unnecessary limb damage to undead, good difficulty balance, decent new enemy designs.

*Pre-rendered cutscenes with cringy handmade animations instead of silhouette Thron AE style.

>>3463057
I wouldnt say it is on par with the original games but it is far from being just another fan mission series. Go try it, it has a decent story and well made levels and interesting new arrows and such. Also your blackjack is replaced by a fucking hammer so thats cool.

>>3463092
So you bonk your enemies on the head with a hammer to make them unconscious instead?

>>3463098
It is even called the knock out hammer.

>>3461593
Stones and Glass Houses is pretty cool. RSoul's missions always look a bit 'sterile' but here they're pretty damn interestng, save maybe for the second mission which takes place in a prison. It's an entertaining campaign.
The Black Frog is very good and much more involved and difficult in comparison. You can see this was years in the making. The second and last missions are excellent mansion sneakers.

>>3463057
Bad story but great levels overall, even if they're too short and the difficulty is ridiculously easy even on Expert. Only exception is The Grand Hotel which rules and is up there with the best Thief 2 OMs.

>>3442580
>>3442601
>>3459305
>>3442160
The reason why Casing & Masks are so bad is because of how closely they are positioned in the level order.

I haven't played Thief 2 in a while but IIRC you do Casing and then immediately Masks is right after it.

When Looking Glass (pbut) were making Thief 2 Gold they planned to have like 3 (three) additional levels between Casing and Masks to split them up better so it wouldn't have been a repetitive slog through the same shit.

>>3463245
Even if there was a gap between them, Casing The Joint would still suck because It is literally filler. There is hardly anything in the level, and some objectives are only really there to lengthen it.

Masks is a perfectly fine map, though.

>>3463341
Always liked this one of Viktoria.
I also instantly recognized Nikky Case as the model used as a base in it.

Am I the only one who felt that the Garrett and Viktoria relationship was kind of out of place? The first game obviously didn't hint at it and in the sequel it felt kind of tacked on. It came out of nowhere and it didn't seem genuine to me. I don't know if it was just me.

>>3463398
maybe the implied romance part. But most of there conversations were tense and hostile.

>>3463398
I like to imagine that one half of the reason why Garrett took the sword job was to impress Viktoria (the other one being the money and challenge, naturally). Garrett is rather petty in The Dark Project and this wouldn't be out of character for him (the only reason he broke Basso out of Cragscleft is so he could screw his sister).

>>3463427
>>3463431
But at the end of Thief 2 you could clearly tell there was something between them. I felt like it came out of nowhere. It's jarring considering the events of the first game.

>>3463398
>>3463427
>>3463431
>>3463440

Think back. Garrett reluctantly agreed to work with Viktoria to get rid of Karras, and after that Viktoria placed a blood oath curse on both herself and Garrett, compelling them to cooperate until the task is done. Neither of them were really acting rationally when it comes to their history and animosity, but they promised to set aside their grievances, and the Earth kept their promise for them.

TL;DR Answer = Literally magic.

>>3463863
Are you telling me blood oaths me people fall in love?

>>3463864
>straw taffing

>>3463872
TAFF YOU!

By the way, when I'm done with recording my ghost playthrough of Thief 2, (and possibly T2X) I'll be doing Thief 3 and I was thinking of making the intro consistent with 1 and 2. Both of those intros start with a quote. First is from The Book of The Stone, the second is from The New Scripture of The Master Builder. I think the third one should be from the keepers, and I found this obscure quote from the Thief 2 manual... do you think it fits the theme and story of of Deadly Shadows? Here it goes:

"Our focus shifted to those who presented two faces;
one manifest yet false;
the other hidden yet true.
To interfere directly would bring ruin;
still, the glyph warnings were absolute.
-Keepers Annals"

I'm done reading the thread and I can't believe my own eyes. What's with all the hate for Mage Towers? It was an amazing map. So what that it played on all the elements? What did you expect getting in? It done that extremely well and each of the towers felt like a unique level of its own. It was amazing.

>>3463918
Because while the towers are unique, they're unbearable

>one tower where you'll fall to your death at every turn
>one tower that's fully lit up and has nowhere to hide from the patrols
>one tower that nothing but metal grating

>>3463927
I was under the impression that people frequenting Thief threads weren't afraid of a challenge.

>>3463927
>one tower where you'll fall to your death at every turn

Which one is this? The air tower is fully lit and fire tower is made of metal, but where are the deadly falls?

>>3463057
Absolutely stellar game.

It has a decent story (somewhere between T1-T2), great levels with a great flow to them, unique missions and especially a mixture of different settings. Like some missions take place within the city, some missions require following people or ghosting the level completely, some are really cool undead missions with great art direction.

Seriously, I cannot stress how well designed the levels are. Exploring them is fun and it is definitely on par with the main games in that regard. Like you'll read about the museum curators obsession over some woman, and you find a secret lever showing that he means the missing mummy in one of the exhibits. The kind of psychological flow that the game has is definitely way above 99% of all FMs out there. None of the T2X levels involve just running around exhausting every possibility and reloading constantly due to cruel guard cycles or convoluted and confusing layout. That alone is a great reason to play a feature length fanmade Thief game.

>>3463918
All the Thief Gold missions looked and played terribly. They were large, disgustingly textured and stick out like a sore thumb compared to the quality of the regular missions.

There are many rooms in the Gold missions that are comprised of only one fucking texture. And the developers included a skipping option in the game files, that should tell you something about the game itself.

>>3463941
Air tower
>platforming with moving platforms in the Dark Engine
>with Garrett's momentum

>>3463998
I dont feel it has a very Thief feel however. And the main protag is meh.

>>3463039
>>3463228
Thanks anons. Yeah I know TTLG is a bit of a hugbox but I can't hate a community that still pumps out so much great stuff.

Can we talk about how awesome Skacky's maps? Endless Rain is a goddamn masterpiece.

>>3461140
No way this is real.

>>3461140
To play double's advocate, maybe there are bars on both sides?

>>3464439
I doubt anyone is going to bother to reinstall to check. Assuming they haven't deleted the installer for their pirated copy long ago, which I did immediately upon finishing the game.

>>3464346
It is, and this is one of only three (I think) doors that require a key in the whole game.

>>3464783
To be honest though, Deadly Shadows had very few unpickable locks too.

Nevermind me, just shillin my T2 ghostin. And my old MS Paint artsies.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmqYHnLFUbaJJWFxlnakprXGLNyUCZCP5

For people experienced with making fan missions, is it possible to make missions using 100% original assets? Like could someone basically make an entirely unique game basically? Wonder why that hasn't happened in the 16+ years the games have been out. I like Thief but it would be nice to have a similar game with a completely different setting and aesthetic. It's a shame nobody has tried making similar games.

Also I'm really excited about the Black Parade.

So I've downloaded Thief Gold. Got mixed emotions about this. I was expecting medieval Deus Ex with better stealth mechanics, but missions 2 & 3 has been mostly maze-y levels with supernatural beings and barely any stealth. Also, soldier behaviour seems buggy and inconsistent, sometimes when I'm in total darkness (according to the lower bar, not carrying any weapons or moving), soldiers (while not alert) can spot me easily while other times they don't (even when alert and just in from of me), which makes it frustrating because I don't fucking know when I can rely on dark corners succesfully.

Any tips? also, how's the final balance between stealthy levels and super natural mazey stuff? the latter has made for dreadful levels imo

>>3465806
Thief 2 completely does away with supernatural stuff, so you should definitely give that a go. Also, pay attention to the surface you're walking on; the harder, the louder.

>>3465778
The source code was under lock and key for a very long time and it's very difficult to make changes to the Dark Engine. I mean damn, it's so difficult that even Irrational wasn't able to implement a system that would pan a camera based on animations during in-game cutscenes in System Shock 2, and they also couldn't cut off the player's ability to look around freely during those cutscenes.

Even the bullets of the guns in SS2 are just incredibly fast projectiles instead of hitscan because of how ingrained the physics simulation of the engine is. It's like our universe. You can't have an object with mass that moves instantly from point A to point B.

>>3465806
Your light gem has 3 levels of general danger. Black means that enemies can get very close without seeing you, and sometimes even bump into you without being detected. Yellow means that you can remain unseen in a range of a dozen meters or so as long as you stay still. If you move, enemies will comment, and if you continue moving they might start a search. Red means that you will be detected quickly even when standing still, from a significant distance.

Also, the perception of enemies increases if they have noticed something. If they ignore it, it returns to normal. If they have searched for you, it can take several minutes before they lower their guard. If they've chased or fought you, they probably will remain at a heightened alertness state indefinitely.

When enemies are more alert, they can see you easier and will be alerted by quieter noises they hear. They will also go into search mode more quickly. Their peripheral vision also increases, and they might turn around and start shooting at you with arrows if they so much as catch a dark glimpse of you at the other end of the street.

Zombies are stupid and their alertness lowers quicker. They will lose track of you even if you just round a corner.

>>3465856
...continued:
Floor materials from quietes to loudest:

Moss = 0 (player can barely hear self)
Carpet = 1 (AI can't hear you at all)
Grass, fine sand, soft soil = 2 (AI can hear you jump close by)
Rock, brick, concrete, asphalt = 3 (AI can hear you run close by)
Wood = 4 (slightly longer range of audibility)
Shallow water = 5 (AI can get alerted when you're wading close by if you run)
Metal = 8 (AI alerted if you take one step close by, can hear you walk in a range of ~10m)
Gravel, marble tiles = 10 (AI alerted if you take one step within 5m, can hear you from ~15m away)

>>3464232
>>3464232
It certainly has its own identity narrative-wise and from the overall NPC design. But it is at least cohesively done, which is more than you can expect from Fanmissions. There they either have NO identity or a jumbled and disjointed one. And I'm not ripping on them, I know they are usually all designed by just one guy, but I have to give credit to T2X where it's due. A group of fans came up with a campaign of various missions that are a clear callback to the T1/T2 era of mission design. NPCs have fun conversations, the books either flesh out the game world or give hints to the plot or level. The world itself feels alive and breathing, and while the plot and main character are meh, it is still a AAA effort from what could be considered a C level modding team.

Compare that to some of the most lauded fanmissions you can see even in these kinds of threads. People sold me on how scary "A Better Tomorrow" is. It was effective for all of 5 minutes, just before you find out that evading the monsters is incredibly easy and the mission objective turns out to be a glorified fetchquest of WoW standards: "Get 3/5/7 rations of food and get the hell out". And that with only the bare minimum story of "everyone died because zombie virus".

At least the mission revolving around the Orb of St. Basmus had the whole Lord Mausoleus tale surrounding it. The death cult of skeleton monstrosities surrounding a mad necromancer noble jealous of one of his subjects wife was a more effective backdrop than the entirely vapid backstory of that fanmission, or that of 90% of FMs out there.

>>3465778
Yeah it's 'possible' in a way, but that requires tremendous work and even more time. Not gonna happen anytime soon. See Sliptip's Strain7 for an example.

>>3465806
You're playing it wrong if you think there is barely any stealth involved in Cragscleft and Bonehoard.

>>3465887
You can't really compare A Better Tomorrow which was made by one person in a month or so to T2X which was years in the making and was written by half a dozen people with many revisions.

>>3465849
Not completely does it away, its just more subtle, the return to the maw is a pretty badass mission. And there are still supernatural elements.

>>3465887
I agree. But some fan missions have the Thief feel, especially older ones, still amateurish but sometimes well done.

>>3465806
You just need to get used to the stealth, full darkness does not mean anything if the enemy is close. The tomb raider missions are good for a D&D rogue feel, but trust me Thief 1 is worth it alone for the story and some of the missions like Assassins and The Sword.

>>3465951
>picture

That area has a high chance to get glitched so a fire elemental becomes stationary and impossible to sneak past. It happened to me in my ironman ghost run twice and I couldn't be bothered with restarting a second time.

>>3465954
I have a D&D Assassin policy on anything not human with Garrett. He does not ghost bonehoard or the lost city he kills stuff while maintaining stealth.

>>3465918
But that is kind of what I'm saying. People will be comparatively generous with mediocre to bad fanmissions because they were made by one dude in a month, but will criticise the hell out of a game that was made by devoted fans who adhered and succesfully replicated all the aspects of a classic thief campaign, thus giving us effectively like a third game. That is weird to me.

>>3465948
Well I liked Invitation to Castle Morgoth for example, but it is comparatively convoluted and cryptically designed. The feeling I am not even debating, but even from T1 to T2 you had a rather big change in atmosphere.

>>3465806
If you expected a medieval Deus Ex then you had false expectations.

The game is first and foremost a stealth game. No RPG/Adventure mechanics like dialogue. There are multiple approach routes to tackling a problem, although they require player creativity rather than the game telling you what to do.

Also: Thief 1/Gold plays much like a solo DnD campaign in that yes, you steal from humans, but you also rob the undead and other supernatural beings.

>>3465960
I interpret Garrett's character the way he comes across on the objective descriptions of the Expert difficulty setting. He isn't a good person who avoids murder out of morality. He's an egomaniac who likes to pat himself in the back for a job well done, a challenging job better done, and an artificially difficult job done perfectly. Killing is for amateurs, getting caught is for losers, but ghosting is for the elite. I'm not saying that ghosting through everything should be considered canon, I'm just saying that Garrett appreciates challenge more than practicality, and accomplishment more than tactical wisdom. It might not make sense to sneak past a horde of beasts that literally want to eat you, but it is a challenge.

>>3466046
He does get wiser thorough the series however. He is as you want him to be. Althought I do not see him as a murderer unless in self defence.

>>3466032
One reason: expectations. The same reason why indie games often have a free pass while AAA titles get more scrutiny. Also the 'bad' fan mission more often than not don't try to be an expansion, fan-made, yes, but expansion like T2X did.

I'm pretty certain The Black Parade will receive pretty much the same amount of scrutiny and criticism as T2X rather than the usual fan mission, only because it is a very ambitious undertaking. The team doesn't want it to dethrone T2X though.

>>3466060
>The Black Parade


What is it a new campaign for Thief?

>>3466046
I always saw Garrett as a True Neutral/Chaotic Neutral character who doesn't kill because he doesn't need to, and because he's not a murderer. The objectives explicitly state that: You're a thief, not a murderer.

Well I don't think ghosting could be canon anyway. First off he gets caught at least once by the City Watch in T2, and secondly the gear loadout is diametrically opposed to the idea that Garrett believes so much in himself that he never gets caught. Why carry sword, arrows, blackjack, flashbombs, mines, gas mines, frogbeast eggs etc. around when you never get caught anyway? I could understand the ace-in-the-hole flashbomb for sticky situations, but it doesn't justify the Rambo loadouts you get for the Bonehoard for example.

>>3466062
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146501

>>3466067
I see Garrett as your typical D&D rogue while in the catacombs, you fuck everything up.

Fuck somebody really needs to do Dark Camelot rpg, but the problem is we will never get the same dark aesthetic as 90s games gave us.

>>3466060
Why does the policy of critical leniency apply to a fanmission, but not to a fan-made campaign? By all standards it's still an indie game. And I still maintain that T2X is a stellar extra campaign for Thief 2. The only argument I've heard against it was "I didn't like the protagonist/the mood wasn't exactly like in Thief" which is superficial, and poorly argued criticism. If someone could convincingly argue that the level design is bad, the equipment and variation in gameplay are bad, and the story so hopelessly stupid that it makes you tear out your hair I could understand.

>>3463863
I'm not familiar with Thief lore. Is a blood oath like the unbreakable vow spell in Harry Potter?

>>3466076
Dont get me wrong I think most people agree the levels are excellent and its a great campaign. Better than fucking modern games.

The criticism are always the mood and protag, which frankly are pretty weak.


>>3466080

There is no defined lore, but considering the Pagans in Thief have a very pronounced witchcraft, satanic mood to them I would say yes a blood bond is a fucking blood bond.

>>3466074

I kind of discriminate between different variations on the Garrett character according to difficulty.

When playing on Normal (especially as a newbie), I'd say Garrett fucks shit up as best he can. I know I did not fuck around sneaking around the undead as a kiddie starting out on the game.

Hard is definitely blackjacking innocents over mercilessly stabbing them in the throat.

Expert is about stealthing it as best as possible, occasionally knocking out a guy if there's no better way, and keeping a contingency plan handy (like a flashbomb, climb up rope arrow or a different kind of trap).

I would really like to see a game in which you can take a more offensive DnD role throughout the entire game too. I always believe that the limitations of the time forced companies to develop a stronger aesthetic identity for their game beyond > photorealism

>>3466093
>I would really like to see a game in which you can take a more offensive DnD role throughout the entire game too.

Well that is why there is the bonehoard and the lost city.
I would say Dishonoured but fuck those OP powers. I dont have faith for the sequel even with Stephen Russel and I like the Arkane guys, modern game dev is cancerous.

>>3466085
Well then all I can say is that i amiably disagree. I must have played through T2X almost as often as the original games.

Especially that awesome brothel level. And the train level. And the undead levels.

It's funny to me how T2X had the brothel level before it became a staple of modern stealth games like in Dishonored and The Unspeakable Sequel.

>>3466076
I told you, expectations. T2X was advertised as this huge campaign that's as long as Thief 2, and had a way broader reach than the usual fan mission. Of course it's going to be more criticized, though I believe you think it receives more criticism than it truly does. T2X is a stellar accomplishment, there is no denying that and I doubt you'll find anyone who says the contrary, but it does have a few shortcomings: the levels (except The Grand Hotel) are shorter and a lot easier than most of Thief 2's, for one, and the story is just not very good to put it mildly. Zaya's VA is down to personal preference and I think T2X did a pretty good job with retaining the feel of Thief 2. Some levels could've been in Thief 2 without any issues, and most of them, even if they are easier and shorter, are much more interesting in their design. I don't want to speak for them but I think the T2X devs wanted to appeal to a broader audience rather than the usual Thief veterans and seasoned players, hence why it's a lot easier than Thief 2. I like T2X, I even replayed it recently, but it has its share of issues, just like the original games (albeit different).

The Black Parade is the other way around. It's a campaign for Thief Gold first, which is pretty niche in terms of audience, and it is mostly meant to seasoned and veteran players: the levels are as big if not bigger than Thief Gold's and are usually tougher. The first mission is a huge non-linear city mission rather than a medium-sized museum like in T2X (if you don't count Unexpected Shelter as a mission). I'm 100% certain this decision will be criticized, but we've made the choice of designing the campaign this way and we're rolling with it to the end.

>>3466108
Black Parade looks amazing, I hope they can pull it off.

Wtv happened to the Dark Mod?

>>3466108
Alright maybe my perception of the criticism is a bit warped. It seemed like there were a lot of "meh" receptions which I felt were unfair.

Well colour me intrigued on The Black Parade then. The idea of a campaign designed for veterans sounds great, as long as it has the decipherable flow of the original games. That is basically all I want, but also the most difficult thing to do. A lot of fanmissions suffer from the problem that you basically need to have developed the mission to know what you're actually supposed to do. I'd love for some really huge missions to satisfy my Thief addiction.

I do think that the appeal for a wider audience than grizzled veterans worked out in favour for T2X. It kinda made the game land a bit more in the same area of difficulty as T1 and 2.

>>3466098
Where is that map picture from?

Contrary to popular criticism I enjoyed those missions for the DnD flair they brought to the game. It is often said that Thief 2 was more true to it's title because you mostly steal from humans, but I thought the best part was that you actually rob the undead and spelunk in the dankest tombs of ancient civilisations in Thief 1. It made the world seem larger and more mystical than in Thief 2.

Like I especially praise Thief for it's usage and portrayal of zombies. It's not exactly an apocalypse. It's more a "don't go to the wrong part of town" approach that gives them a slow menace. Imagine the town you live in has a walled-off section like that. It would be spooky as hell to go about your business knowing there's a quasi undead civilisation adjacent to you. Hey, there would probably even be teenagers trying to loot the place occasionally getting picked off by the quicker undead.

>>3466136

I also prefer Thief 1 anon, lots of taffers prefer it actually. Still many fans however preferred the Urban Thief part and less the D&D adventure style. Normies also seem to prefer Thief 2 because well except a few missions, the focus of the game is more specific.


The pic is from Thief 2 mission 2.

>>3466136
I like to imagine the Zombies and most undead as a result of a lack of consecration during burials. Like if you're thrown into a mass grave with no ceremony, chances are you'll return as an undead husk or as a ghost.

>>3466115
TBP is doing good so far, we've almost finished missions 3 and 7.
The Dark Mod is also doing fine, got a few cool releases lately, for example the third entry in the Penny Dreadful series.

>>3466135
We want it to flow like the originals (well, like Thief Gold in this case) and to be just obscure enough as to not be too obvious but not be frustrating either. It won't have pixel-hunting for mandatory objectives or forced combat, for example. It's really designed as a tribute and we don't want to introduce out of place stuff or mechanics. We have a few new tools for the player as well as several new AIs with unique quirks but they fit in well.

I just finished converting my video of the mission Blackmail, and found yet another aspect of Deadly Shadows that is superior than its equivalent in Thief 1 and 2.

>Sleeping characters are less perceptive than awake ones and picking a lock doesn't make them instantly spring up as if hit with a cattle prod

>>3466145
What sort of voice acting will you guys do? I swear no game does eavesdropping like Thief, its magic.

Also please make the MC a grizzled Thief and not a apprentice faggot.

Makes want to pick up a modern engine and make the City I have my mind, a surrealist nightmare like Sigil.
>>3466152
That used to scare the shit out of me. Wasn't it fixed with Tfix?

>>3466156
We have good to great voice acting so far. Some of the new character have amazing voices. The main character is a grizzled thief, don't worry. He's not Garrett, but he's also the jaded type.

>>3466161
Any haunted levels?
I want to feel scared again in my life.

>>3466141
Glad to hear it.

I know, but did you hand draw it? Because that's definitely not what they look like in-game.

>>3466145

That is some cool imagery. I find that spin on the zombie genre a hell of a lot better than the absolutely generic apocalypse/virus outbreak that is commonplace in gaming today. Portions like the Abysmal Gale in Thief 3 were awesome as well, simply because I find the idea of pockets of the undead to be more scary than the apocalypse. I mean, it's the apocalypse. The fight is over, the battle lost, there's no prolonged survival possible in that setting. But zombies in the bad parts of town? I'd buy it.

That sounds like a really great design plan, and I hope that you can execute it to the fullest of your wishes. I'll definitely check it out and keep my eyes peeled for an eventual release. Will the game use Darkloader or some similar tool, or kind of work like T2X?

>>3466165
Yes, the campaign will feature undead levels. Holy Water is discounted.

>>3466156
>Wasn't it fixed with Tfix?

I don't think so. I'm playing on NewDark and sleeping guards can still hear me pick a lock from 5 meters away.

>>3466171
Installer or not entirely depends on whether NewDarkloader installs lua scripts in the thief/scripts folder or not. FMSel doesn't, which caused a few negligible hiccups with our latest mission (The Chalice of Souls), but this time we heavily use these. Most people are too lazy to manually extract a folder, so an installer that installs the campaign and also extracts the folder for them is a real possibility.

>>3466185
Oh so there are already parts of the campaign released?

>>3466190
No, this is an unrelated mission. We want to release the campaign as a full package.

>>3466171
Zombies are always scary, like everything really, if handled correctly.

My last DM in D&D actually made a fantasy campaign around a typical necromancer rising undead but was so well done It became a good horror
Reminded me of Dark Earth, small mountain enclaves of magic\steampunkish humanity surviving against entire wildernesses of fast and scary undead.


>>3466172
Make it scary. And deadly.

I replayed The Wheel of Time recently and I got to a very interesting part I forgot, the game is meh but there was this level, a dark level where if you stayed long enough spirits would slowly kill you. Quite tense.

>>3466196
Is The Wheel of Time a fanmission?

Zombies are scary if handled right, yes. But I think the inescapable nature of the Apocalypse has been pushed to its limits. The idea of a necromancer raising spirits sounds absolutely great for a DnD campaign.

Last year I played Heroes of Might and Magic 3 for the first time and I was stunned by the spooky atmosphere of the soundtrack in Necropolis (which was the first town i picked). The dark, moody visuals reminded me a lot of the kind of level I'd really like to see in Thief. It's the over-the-top, DnD style art direction of 80s/90s high fantasy art that gets me. It's a game, an art style that knows what it wants and fully instills it's imagery in the players minds. Thief absolutely excels in that regard of course.

>>3466217


There was 99 Wheel of Time game made in the unreal engine, it was okay for its time, not spectacular, I just think that particular segment was scarier than most modern horror games.


I know what you say about 80\90s aesthetics. That gritty dark vibe was never replicated correctly, think of stuff like Quake or Hexen 2.

So you would like a high fantasy with some darkness throw in, larry elmore\keith parkinson style.

Everybody in /tg/ wants it as well, there was something great about it, it was still fantasy while the art l tried to retain some believability, maybe its the correct word.

>>3466185

I dont blame you if you guys dont have briefings vids.

But are you trying to make them?

I'm the guy from before, the one getting into thief and complaining about supernatural stuff. So, I still maintain that my game is bugged or something. Does TFix touches something about the game's balance?

I was totally lost in the thieves' guild mission after getting the safe key from the first mansion, and although I never read/watch walkthroughs for my first time playing a new game, I had to, man, what a horrible horrible mission. Well, watching this guy in youtube, he doesn't ever get spotted even though he's almost running behind soldiers making noise, enemies run past off him in dark corners while I get spotted in a totally dark corner (hud indicator totally black, no movement, I threw water arrows into torches, enemy is unaware of noises/unusual activity), there's nothing strange and they still spot me easily. Also I can't sneak behind them without them noticing it even if I'm in a soft surface, walking while crouched, meanwhile the youtube guy gets really careless with the noise (in comparison with me) and he does fine.

I've treid to reinstall & restarted missions to no avail. This is fucking hell to play and the only explanation I have is that something is bugged. The reactions from the enemies in my game in comparison with what I'm seeing in videos are totally off.

>>3466390
Install TFix anon and sound enhancement. Skip Thief Gold missions. crtl shift alt end.

>>3466402
I had it installed already, that's why I'm asking if it touches the game balance, AI behavior and so on

>>3466421
>>3466390
Was the video you were watching played on a different difficulty level?

>>3466390
>>3466421
Oh and another thing, flash bombs don't work AT ALL. Whether I use them to surprise unaware human enemies or to run from hostile ones, they aren't affected by them. Something's wrong.

>>3466449
Thats weird

>>3466350
We are making briefing videos.

>>3466390
Do you have any mod installed besides TFix? That sounds like the ultimate difficulty mod. The thieves are very twitchy NPCs but they shouldn't be THAT twitchy.

>>3466442
I'm playing in Normal, while the guy was on expert I think.

>>3466452
TFix and sound enhancement only.

Going to sleep, will check out the answers tomorrow

Is there any limit on fan mission size? I know the old version of the engine only supported 1024 of a certain type of polygon on screen at a time but is there anything stopping me from making say 3 levels the size of >>3454470 and having them stacked and accessible to each other as one map?

>>3465856
The guy that did the New Dark update has the source code. Why doesn't he just release it? I know the Thief series is still owned by someone but for a similar example, the Stalker games are still available too but the source for all three of those games leaked and is being worked on by the community and there hasn't been any legal issues so far. Though If Square Enix and Eidos own the license they might be more inclined to do something about it but as far as I know they haven't said anything about New Dark.

>>3466619
World polys/brush limits are a non issue now, but the cell limit however will definitely prevent you from making levels that are three or four times the size of Life of the Party and there is no way around it. The mission in the pic is dangerously close to the cell limit (which is 32760). The mission is currently sitting at ~32300 iirc, and the two other missions that are close to being finished are both at around 31000. We've had to make a few concessions WRT details to accommodate for that.

The cell limit was around 28000 in OldDark and was increased with NewDark, but you still reach it quite quickly if you make expansive missions. I wish it would be increased further but I don't think it's possible at this point, otherwise the people behind ND would've done it already.

>>3466668
Its absolutely amazing how long the engine went, especially because of sound design.
I always hated the character models look.

>>3466668
That sucks. I'm not that experienced with programming but they have the source code so with enough patience I should imagine they'd be able to rewrite it to do whatever they want it to be able to do.

What's with the limits anyway? What benefit or reason is there to include these limits or another example would be the entity limit in Source?

Wish we would have gotten to see the Siege Engine. All there is as far as I know is an editor that doesn't work.

>>3466452

Are you guys making any new guard models?

I would love to see some models like full plate knights, or crossbowmen.

>>3466678
I'm not a programmer but I'd wager it has to do with engine stability and rendering. It's an old engine. Quake has had its limits pushed back in incredible ways, allowing you to create enormous hyper-detailed levels with tens of thousands of brushes and hundreds and hundreds of monsters and entities, but there are still limits.

>>3466671
The Dark Engine sound tech is still unmatched to this day. It's still very impressive.

>>3466694
Yeah we are. We have tons of new NPC models, not just guards. Lots of new Hammerites for example. We actually have an NPC wearing full plate armor too, who is naturally un-blackjack-able. No crossbowmen though, but we could maybe add some later.

>>3466072
>http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146501
>iwanttobelieve.jpg

Hnnng. Sounds great, but I'll have to take my usual approach and try to forget about it, then be pleasantly surprised when it finally comes out instead of anticipating it for forever.