/vr/ - Retro Games

Just wondering - are there any guys interested in Soviet PCs?

From browsing Ebay auctions it seems Commodore PETs are kind of rare although the figures I have claim they sold almost a million of them.

Commodore 8-bit sales:

>PET (prod. 1977-85)
1 million
>VIC-20 (prod. 1981-84)
3 million
>C64 (prod. 1982-94)
12.5 million
>Plus/4 and C16 (prod. 1984-86)
1 million
>C128 (prod. 1985-89)
4 million

>>3372742
So. I just got an Atari XEGS and a MyIDE-II cart. Any good games/demos/whatever that will run on that setup? (xex files preferred, the .atr images I've tried haven't worked)

>>3373139
I didn't know they produced the PETs that late.

>>3373174
The PET was to be replaced by the CBM-II line in 1982, but it was a total bomb and continued demand from Europeans prompted Commodore to restart PET production.

Autism: The forum post

>>3373080
Sure. Except it's literally foreign to most of us, having never seen any before. You're probably going to have to a lot of storytelling for us.

Lot of old computer stuff on craigslist near me, what of this stuff is worth getting? Already planning on picking up the Apple IIGS.

Apple IIc, IIGS, Mac Classic
Commodore VIC20, 64, 128, Amiga 500
Tandy 100, 1000, Color Computer2
IBM PC Junior, Eduquest 55, PS/2 Model 80
Sun sparcstation IPC
Toshiba T1100

The Apple, Commodore, and Tandy stuff would be the best choices. The rest is pretty worthless.

>>3373249
a lot of those retro computer forums are that

>>3373397
Nah they're usually pretty professional, knowledgeable neckbeards, at least the ones I've been on. That shit I posted is rare.

>>3373368
IIgs is nice in that it gives you access to the entire library of Apple II software except cassette stuff (only a few early programs from the 70s).

http://www.atarimax.com/flashcart/documentation/

has anyone tried one of those multicarts? Finding working games for Atari computers is damn hard.

>>3373450
I literally just bought the MyIDE-II, which is kinda similar to one of these carts. I'm looking for info on it, but there are also disk drive emulators which might be helpful/better. I don't know shit about Atari 8-bit computers, though, so don't ask me!

>>3373451
>I don't know shit about Atari 8-bit computers, though, so don't ask me!
What would you like to know?

>>3373453
Good games, how to use the MyIDE-II, that sort of thing.

>>3373454
>Good games

Basically any Epyx/Broderbund/Synapse/Atarisoft games. Remember that the market for Atari 8-bits melted like a chunk of ice in the hot sun >1985.

There's a bunch of different models of Atari 8-bits which are mostly only different in terms of slight changes in the OS ROMs and memory size.

Atari 400: Membrane keys. 16k of RAM and one cartridge slot
Atari 800: Full travel keyboard, 48k of RAM, and two cartridge slots. This is the machine that the vast majority of A8 software is designed to run on
Atari 1200XL: Short-lived replacement for the 400/800 that went to a single board design with 64k of memory in place of the multiple boards in the older machines. Failed largely due to buggy and incompatible OS ROMs.
Atari 600XL/800XL: Improved single board models with 16 and 64k of RAM respectively. BASIC is now in a ROM on the main system board instead of a cartridge. Some minor OS incompatibilities with the 400/800 (mostly relating to Synapse games).
Atari 65XE/130XE: The last of the 8-bit line. Cost-reduced versions of the 600XL/800XL and much cheesier/flimsier construction quality. Most came from the factory with extremely unreliable Micron RAM chips. 64 and 128k of memory.
XEGS: 65XE sold as a game system in the late 80s

>>3373485

I have the XEGS and it still works. The composite video is nice.

>>3373506
The Atari is a good deal faster than the Commodore 64 (1.79Mhz CPU vs 1.33Mhz) and comparing games that exist on both systems makes this immediately noticeable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzxnQ-E4qFY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoM0vGVqtDc

>>3373523

most of Atari computer games are straight up ports of 2600 games with upgraded graphics, so that made them easier to optimize. The C64 was a whole different story. Also when the NES appeared, Atari died.

>>3373472
Well, I've found that (from what I remember of playing it) Pitstop II is better on C64, but Gateway to Aphsai? and Jumpman Jr. are both pretty fun. Thanks for the advice!

>>3373542
Way off. The 2600 and A8 computers are totally different and you can't reuse any code from them except maybe a couple of AI algorithms. Also there are tons of A8 games that are not on the 2600 like Rescue on Fractalus and Jumpman.

>>3373548
Pitstop II looks nicer on the C64 but they fucked up the game physics.

>>3373554
It's just a very early initial impression. But any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Also looking for a tool to alphabetize files on disk - need to presort things for the Atari.

Big handicap of A8s was the deficient disk storage - the 810 drive only stores 90k per side and the 1050 just 130k while Apple and Commodore had 140k and 170k formats. Even worse most software came on 810 disks.

>>3373542
The Atari ST had a good run in Europe as a cheap Amiga alternative, although in a fit of madness they scrapped it to focus on the Jaguar.

>>3373264
All right, I'll look for some interesting material.
Here's an overview article about Soviet hobbyist computers by Zbigniew Stachniak, check it here: http://www.computer.org/cms/Publications/docs/ahc-20150101.pdf

>>3373542
Nah, Atari didn't die, like >>3373601 said, the ST line was still pretty damn popular in Europe, but not only as an Amiga alternative, as it came out before and had integrated MIDI pots, but also because most of the time, multiplatform games came out on ST first, and that some and was also THE computer to have for amateur musician of the time. Also, for some games like Captain Blood, the Atari ST version is better than the Amiga one.

>>3373249
Just wow

>>3373249
I fucking hate AtariAge.

>>3373249
What's wrong with having sentimental feelings to hardware pieces?

>>3373368
>what of this stuff is worth getting?
All the things! But if to narrow down...
IIGS: should give you access to most of the Apple // software library
Mac Classic: Cool little machine, to give you access to the older B&W software library.
Tandy 100: Pic is all you need to know.
Commodore 128: Should give you access to most of the C64 library (though I recall my friend's one having a few incompatibilities.)
Want to say something about the Color Computer 2, but the extent of my CoCo experience is only powering on my 2 & 3 to see if they worked.


>>3373445
I want to say the IIGS does have cassette support in the form of an existing but unused connector on the motherboard, but I can't readily find any reference listing all the jumpers & such to verify.

>>3373646
TRS-80s look cool but useless and there's no software of note for them.

>>3375013
The problem was that Radio Shack required a special licensing deal for third parties to sell software in their stores and most balked at the idea. Selling software outside of RS was also not a profitable idea. While there was a lot of stuff for them, it tended to be a low budget cottage industry rather than professionally-produced software.

>>3374818
Too bad most model 100 games are written in BASIC, there are games like that 1st person maze game that could have rendered it's scenes way faster if it was written in assembly.

What's your personal cutoff for vintage computers switching from "charmingly retro" to "mass-produced garbage"?

>>3376239
Once companies like Cyrix and AMD started making their own x86 processors, and the focus became less on the system as a whole and more on the individual parts which users were free to swap and mix as they saw fit. Any individual wintel pc might not have much charm to it, but the processor wars and competing 3D graphics standards created individual components with charm all their own.

>>3376239
What do you mean by our personal cutoff? Personally I don't really consider anything to be "mass-produced garbage" except maybe for those shit-quality PC clones that some no name taiwanese or pinoy factories flooded the market with in the 90s.

>>3376239
Mostly stuff you can still find dumpster diving or on Craigslist for $20. This generally means any Pentiums with numbers in the name. Older clone machines are useful for DOS and finicky Win9x games, and C2D and later machines are still useful as modern computers, so that ~1996-2006 period is what I ignore unless it's something interesting like a PPC Mac.

>>3376239
IMHO, once it has any USB ports, and/or lack of ISA slots, it's no longer retro.

>>3376239
The idea of mass produced garbage started with the TRS-80 Model I in 1977.

>>3377023
Or if not that, in the early 80s when turnkey computers like the Kaypro appeared, which were designed for non-technical people who just wanted to do basic productivity.

Generally speaking, it's easier to port Apple II software to the C64 or Atari than the other direction. Even Richard Garriott said this. "We developed [Ultima] primarily around the Apple II because if we'd made it for the other two, we couldn't easily port it--the work would never get done."

kind of a shame the CBM-II line didn't make it

seemed like a C64 with more RAM

>>3377131
It was actually a tarted-up PET. They had two variations planned - the B-series (B for business) and the P-series (P for personal). The B-series would have 80 column monochrome text and the P-series a VIC-II, and optional Z80 and 8086 boards were planned to allow CP/M capability. The CBM-II line was a total bomb and soon discontinued, plus they were hideously expensive to manufacture. The P-series was cancelled in the US before production models could ship as the success of the C64 made it redundant. Also they were found to not pass FCC regulations so all NTSC units (a handful of preproduction/review models) were recalled and destroyed. A small number of P500s were sold in Europe.

In the end, Commodore was forced to revive production of the PET due to continued high demand in Europe, and it was sold until 1986. These later PETs also had rounded plastic CBM-II cases with integrated disk drives instead of the old-style metal PET case.

The bank switching hardware developed for the CBM-II eventually found its way into the C128.

>>3377215
The really fucking bad part about the CBM-II was that the memory banking scheme works so that you can't access the system ROMs outside Bank 15 which means software has to include its own code for processing interrupts and doing system I/O, which is inconceivably gay.

>>3377773
To clarify: Under Commodore's original scheme, you could get each CBM-II model in various configurations:

Memory: 64k, 128k, 192k, 256k
Case: Slimline or high profile. Slimline models lacked a monitor or internal disk drives. High profile models had a built-in swivel mount monitor and optional internal floppies. They could also accommodate an 8088 or Z80 card for running CP/M.
B or P-series: The B-series had the same video circuit as the 80xx PET, meaning that it outputs 80x25 monochrome text while the P-series had a VIC-II. Both variants had an SID chip, but only the P-series had a joystick port.

So in short, the idea was that you could order either a B or P-series and configure it however you liked, with a slimline or high profile case, whatever memory size, you wanted, and in the case of high profile models, the option of internal floppies and a CP/M board.

Ultimately most of it never materialized and only the B128 (600 series in Europe), B256 (700 series in Europe), CBM-128 (710 series in Europe) and P500 ever made it to production. The rest were only produced as prototypes or simply vaporware.

>>3377882
>>3377773
>>3377754
>>3377215
>>3377131
is there any interesting software for these?

>>3377898
Not really.

I'm looking for a better floppy drive to use it as external DF1: for my A500 (right now I use a Sony MPF-920 from 1997, sometimes the written data can't be read in DF0:).
I just found this one on ebay with a funky looking bezel which has "1.44M" written in the eject button.
The way how the SMD soldering looks gives me the impression that it's made in the early 90s, so I think this one's gonna way be better than the shitty one I'm using right now.
Also there's a slide switch for DS0-4 (bottom left corner).

Does anybody else think that this drive is good?

>>3378390
Get a Gotek instead. It's infinitely more convenient/reliable.

>>3378390
This moidel seems to be common replacement for Amiga drives, so why not give it a try?

>>3378446
If he was looking for one of those he'd already have gotten one.

>>3378506
I found out that this drive comes from an Olivetti M300-15:
http://mastodonpc.tripod.com/personal/m300-15.html
This means that it's made in the early 90s, which is pretty much what I'm looking for.

>>3378745
Glad to see that you've found a replacement good enough.
Anyway, what do you play on your Amiga?

>>3378506
>If he was looking for one of those he'd already have gotten one.

>>3379409
What? No fuck you, asshole marketer. Quit spamming your Flash drive shit.

>>3379413
>>3379409
>>3378935
>>3378506
>>3378446
Fuckin' A, not this again.

>>3379419
eh?

>>3379453
I've seen this over and over and over.

>marketer shows up and spams about Flash floppy emulators like the 1541 Ultimate
>samefag argues against himself and accuses himself of being a spammer

>>3379468
Just report it. Don't acknowledge it in any fashion. That's why catfucker is still around.

>>3379480
>implying mods give a shit about this board anyway
>implying you couldn't post CP and it would be up for two hours before they do anything

>>3379480
Is that catfucker from /kspg/ or does /vr/ have its own separate catfucker?

>>3379495
The same one, I've seen him on other /vg/ threads as well.

>>3378390
Why not use a Gotek instead? It's a lot easier to use, more modern, and more reliable.

>>3379890
The players look rather good on the right panel, and the animation is pretty good, but how good is the game itself?

Anyway, here's a music disk with some really nice tunes :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtiWiJ6tK1M
It uses the Moonsound expansion, an OPL4-based sound expansion made by a Dutch company in the mid-90s. As it uses the OPL4 chip, it is somewhat compatible with MSX-Audio cartridges. It's not the same as the Moonblaster setup though, which is basically both MSX Audio and MSX Music expansions running on the same machine.

>>3379968
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8seeXZfxPR8

This guy has a lengthy playthrough of the game here (he used to play Hardball as a kid apparently).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J226NBKsBLY

Also reviews the Apple II version. LOL at 2:19. This is just like every retro computer forum post I've ever seen.

>every kid in the neighborhood had a C64 except the one weirdo with an Apple II and the only games he had for it were, like, Oregon Trail and Math Blaster

>>3379972
That's Hardball you've just posted anon. Anyway, this guy's video about the game was what I was watching while posting >>3379968 (it's where I captured the webm from) without the sound though because I was listening to some tunes before checking the video. According to him, the game is alright, but not as good as Hardball. The intro tune is pretty neat though.

>>3379972
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHx_KRFfDAg

Amiga version. I don't think he reviews the DOS version, but there is a video on there from some other guy.

There's apparently even a Mac version of Hardball but I can't find any pics or footage of that.

Funny thing from searching Youtube videos--there's hardly any footage of Amiga baseball games because 80% of Amigafags are Yuropoors and they've never heard of baseball

>>3379995
Next time, try not being retarded.

Oh wait, here it is.

http://www.macintoshrepository.org/5107-hardball

>>3379997
>not having AdBlock installed

>>3379975
It was usually like "Our parents bought an Apple II because they thought it was 'educational' and we were only allowed to have games like Math Blaster. Usually you kept a box of disks under the bed of actual good games where they couldn't find out."

>>3379975
3:45

Yeah he's right. Apple II games only have software sprites so can't have as much stuff going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=085JMsGiTuc

A million videos of the Hardball sequels which went on well into the 90s, but this is the only vid I could find of the original game for the PC, which for some reason is in CGA mode even though the game supports EGA.

The framerate on this is awful; it's choppy as hell and kind of illustrates the poor quality of PC compatible games at that time considering the Apple II version is running on a little 1Mhz CPU and manages faster, completely flicker-free animation.

>>3380019
I checked his Youtube channel and he has an entire autistic series of videos on the Stickybear educational series for the Apple II and C64.

>>3379997
Don't respond to the shitposter.

Good PC-98 games that aren't hentai or Touhou?

>>3381317
flame zapper kotsujin

>>3381317
What >>3381601 said, the Koei strategy games, the Kampeki no Kampai stratedy games, the Arcus series, Rusty, Falcom games (the Dragon Slayer series, the Ys series, Popful Mail), Konami adventure games (Snatcher, Policenauts), and many more.

I always wondered whether you could use modern RAM sticks in a vintage box if you built an adapter for the socket and did something to downtune the voltage to 1.5V or whatever the modern stuff uses. You'd also only be using like one quarter or less of the stick's capacity.

It'd be if nothing else a funny experiment.

>>3381317
>>3381685
There's also the Princess maker I and II games too, micro cabin games like Illusion city, Xak II & III, Net Guardian among others. Be sure to check /v/'s recommended games wiki they have a list of good PC-98 games on it.

>>3381869
Doubtful. RAM is very finicky stuff. Older RAM even more so.

>>3383392
Wasn't it very common to mod PCBs to accommodate 4164 RAM instead of 4116 RAM?

http://www.scoresaves.com/misc/JustSayNoTo4116.html

>>3383395
By "older RAM" I meant SIMMs, not crap from the 1970s.

>>3383353
wish i had the technical know-how to build a computer like this

>>3383392
30-pin SIMMs (used in 286 and 386SX boards) require each group of two SIMMs to not only be the same capacity, but have the same number of chips on them. 72-pin SIMMs (used on all 32-bit boards up to the P4) are more forgiving. In their case you only need to pair them by capacity, the number of chips on the SIMM being irrelevant.

>>3372742

Working on my 4chan telnet server.

>>3383712
That has to do with how the slots are wired, right? Seems like an adapter could fix that.

>>3385067
You're far more of a neckbeard than me because bless my soul, all I know how to do on the things is is boot up King's Quest.

>>3385067
Since you can't load Captchas with that, it seems kind of pointless.

>>3385438

Not if the server is using a 4chan pass...

>>3385482
>actually giving Schlomo "Christopher" Poolowitz your hard-earned cash
I shiggidy diggidy do.

Can someone shed some light on something for me?
PC-88 vs PC-98. the hardware started coming out 1 year apart (1981 vs 1982) so why was PC88 software still coming out long after the PC-98 launched? I've been reading up on a PC-88 game by the name of "Produce", which came out in 1987. What purpose did releasing software on the PC-88 platform instead of the PC-98 platform serve?

http://www.acrpc.net/apple-iie-enhanced/

Bad RAM and surprise, surprise it turns out to be Micron chips. Their early stuff was pretty bad and Apple bought a lot of it.

As one other note, he sockets the replacement chip. Fine, but it would be better if he also desoldered and socketed the remaining chips because the socket adds extra capacitance that will cause the chip to run slightly slower than the rest of the RAM.

>>3385797
First of all, the PC-88 architecture is merely an evolution of the PC-8001, which date from 1979. PC-88 models still have a PC-8001 compatibility mode that you could activate via dipswitches up to the MkIISR models (the FR and MR models dropped that mode).
Anyway, to answer your question, I think that it's because the PC-8801 was clearly geared torward home users (maybe not the first model, but with the arrival of the MkII and then MkIISR it was) while the PC-9801 was more of an office computer meant for business uses above all, even though many people bough these instead of the PC-88s by the late 80s.
Also, the PC-88 was one of the most popular computer during the 80s in Japan, so releasing new games for this system was far from being a bad idea.

>>3385826
Right, I understand how popular the PC-88 was in the 80s, but I just sorta would imagine that late into it's life (and into it's successors life) development would have shifted. It makes sense if the PC-88 was still more dominant in home use. Do you know if the PC-98 still prohibitively expensive by 87/88? I wonder what the price differences were between the two (generally speaking of course, means there were multiple configurations)

>>3385837
A PC-9801RA2 (a 386-based PC-9801 model released in 1988) would cost around 498,000 yen (the price is written at the bottom of pic related). If we compare to a contemporaty PC-88 model, like the PC-88VA2 (the 16-bit upgrade to the PC-8801 family), which retail price was roughtly 298,000 yen in 1988 (according to http://old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=402 ), we can see that the PC-98 was still 200,000 yen more expensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvoXhMwmkFg
This hack is really cool.

>>3386824
The Vampire Hunter game on the MSX is pretty cool though, lots of exploration that would later resurface in the later games. It kinda sucked, but it had cool ideas.

Does anyone have experience with the Lo-tech ISA compact flash cards? I'm thinking of getting one for my 5150, and I was wondering if I could just put a boot image of some sort onto it using a modern computer.

>>3373249
tl;dr

>>3387385
Basically autism in text form

>>3387092
I think what you're looking for is an IDE-Flash adapter that lets you use the Flash card as a hard disk. In this case, you'll need an ISA card with an IDE interface on it and you can just plug the card in.

Beware though, it will have to be an ISA card with an onboard BIOS ROM since 8086 machines have no hard disk support in the BIOS.

>>3387092
I think what you're looking for is an IDE-Flash adapter that lets you use the Flash card as a hard disk. In this case, you'll need an ISA card with an IDE interface on it and you can just plug the card in. Beware though, it will have to be an IDE card with an onboard BIOS ROM since 8086 machines have no hard disk support in the BIOS.

>>3386824
Noice! I think there's a way to include scrolling too by taking advantage of the MSX2+ scrolling registers (the MSX2 only had a vertical one) but I guess that it would need to rewrite a huge chunk of the game's engine though.
>>3386860
>It kinda sucked
Well, after playing a bit, I don't really find that it sucks.
>>3387371
The mouse stand a bit too much imo, but anyway, what do you play on it?

>>3387676
>The mouse stand a bit too much imo
What? I guess you mean the mous stands out a bit too much?
I have several original mice for it, but I'll go with functionality over appearance.

>what do you play on it?
It has all the ECS games on WHDLoad.

>>3388135
>I have several original mice for it, but I'll go with functionality over appearance.
Ok I see.
>It has all the ECS games on WHDLoad.
Well what I was asking for is more about which one do you like to play the most compared to the others.

>>3388167
>Well what I was asking for is more about which one do you like to play the most compared to the others.
That would be a long ass list, to name just a few, Chaos Engine, Cannon Fodder 1/2, Disposable Hero, Turrican 1/2/3, Dune 2, Settlers 2, Speedball, several pinball games and the list goes on.
Also quite a few clones like Dyna Blaster (Bomberman) or ports like custom maps in Doom.

Too many favorites who always get my attention when I'm bored.

>>3388195
I see. Personally when I want to play a game on my Amiga I usually play to either Hybris or R-Type. Sometimes I play to a few other games like Dungeon master, F/A-18 Interceptor, Bubble Bobble or Rodland, but these 2 are the ones that I play the most.

>>3388232
Oh yes, R-Type is awesome, not just on the Amiga but in general.

>>3388391
Yeah. R-Type is a great game, and the Amiga port is a pretty good one too.

>>3387371
Specs? 600 cant play mp3s...

>>3389163
maybe he has a 68030

>>3389163
>37MHz 68020 + MC68882 FPU
>2MB CHIP + 10.5MB FAST
>Indivision ECS Scandoubler/FlickerFixer - up to 256 color and 1024x768 res
>4GB CF IDE

Plus stuff like PCMCIA WIFI, USB mouse adapter, VGA output, ATX desktop PSU, etc.

>>3389173
It's actually faster then most '030 accelerators for the 600, only a few old ones are faster, but they are very rare.

Best C64 to get are short board C64Cs. If well taken care of, they're almost bulletproof.

Finally entered the world of retro computing with the purchase of an Amiga 1200. It's a beautiful machine, freshly refurbished by someone who used to do this for a living.

>>3390196
The late breadbins are pretty good. Middle-era breadbins (1984-ish) are good too but the late ones switched to using two 64kx4 DRAMs instead of eight 64kx1 DRAMs. Early breadbins are pretty shit event though autists will pay unhealthy amounts for a silver label C64 from 1982 despite the poor video quality, lack of S-video, and bad reliability. Breadbins made in 1983 are better but not much better.

>>3390376
Noice. What are you planning to play on it?

>>3390386
Silver label C64s with the ceramic VIC-II are pretty useless except for collector's sake. The video output is really fuzzy and has tons of color bleed. You'd go blind looking at that.

>>3390410
Right now, some Alien Breed and Chaos Engine.

>>3390412
My brother ran a computer shop in Atlanta in the early 90s and he said they repaired about 1000 C64s. He said only a handful of them were silver label boxes and the repairs on those all seemed to involve replacing the original shitty VIC-II with a later model that had better video output.

Now keep in mind that 1991-ish was nearly at the end of the road for the C64 so it's possible if he'd been repairing them 5-6 years earlier, there might have been more silver label ones. He did say that it was rare to get in a C64C and most of the time, it was always breadbins that were malfunctioning.

>>3390415
I see, have fun! These are pretty good games.

>x86 boxes are soulless
According to whom?

SD2IEC does not work with some C64 games. For example, Maniac Mansion.

>>3390460
I'd have to say Maniac Mansion is more fun than Zak McKracken and not as...tedious. Zak is just so fucking long. It takes forever to get through the entire game.

>>3390421
>>3390415
Also, if it doesn't have FastRAM yet, I'd advise you to get some, the CPU is slowed down because most of the time, access to ChipRAM is denied by the custom chips in the Amiga 1200, so adding a bit of FastRAM will allow it to work at full speed. Giving it a PCMCIA ethernet card and checking for AGA games wouldn't be a bad idea either.

>>3390417
Yeah I'm gonna assume if this was the early 90s that all those guys with silver label C64s got them secondhand, the original owners having since upgraded to a PC or something else.

The ICs in breadbox C64s get toasty as hell because of the ancient 70s NMOS process that was already obsolete when the computer was new. They end up succumbing to electromigration, something that's not a problem with newer chip fabrication methods.

And I do agree based on anecdotal evidence that C64Cs fail a lot less than breadbins; most of the time you'll only encounter bad RAM from a busted power brick.

>>3390376
If you can't afford anything beefier at least get some new old stock accelerator for it, it will drastically improve performance, also get a scandoubler or use the RGB out if you have a supporting monitor or TV.

>>3390442
Idiots. Any machine has a soul if you put one in it.

He's the kind of person that makes Amiga folk look bad.

>>3390442
>going to lemon64
why, it's all a bunch of obnoxious old guys

>>3390923
>>3390442
Not to mention, Amiga fags on lemon64, Amiga is related to Commodore in name only.

>>3390956
well both are by commodore

there's no doubt that there's some brand loyalty there, despite commodore committing like 60 blunders while just being lucky for a bit

>>3390960
Actually Amiga was founded as Hi-Toro, latter, Amiga Corporation, by a bunch of guys from Atari, then purchased by Commodore and worked as a separate division under it.

Funny part is, that Amiga was the guys who made the early Atari consoles and 8-bit computer family, Atari denied their interest in a new computer they wanted to do, so they left, formed Amiga, started work on it, run out of money and got bought by Commodore so they could keep working on it.
Meanwhile Jack Tramiel who founded Commodore, left and bought Atari along with his own engineers, guys who also made the Commodore 64, then later made the Atari ST.

People still think the Commodore 64 is the predecessor of the Amiga and the 8-bit Ataris are the predecessors of the Atari ST, actually it's vice versa.

>>3372742
Apolgies for being slightly out of range, but do you know what causes this issue with older games (usually with some quicktime or embedded video in it) where the whole screen goes black until you mouse over interactive elements, which make those spots appear?

It's happened to me before but usally fixes itself randomly, but I'd like to know what's causing it.

>>3385067
>/g/
>/pol/
>/int/
>/vr/
9001/10, and it looks absolutely beautiful.

>>3390923
>why, it's all a bunch of obnoxious old guys

Most of the people on Lemon64 are probably teenagers who never used a real C64 but have lots of nostalgic memories of using VICE back in 2009. At least, posts like the one I linked seem to indicate a pretty low level of intelligence.

>>3390552
As I understand it, electromigration is mostly caused by high voltage and heat levels. Modern ICs use 3.3V or less power, not the 12V chips in the C64.

>>3391038
i didn't even notice at first, but look at the guy's nationality

fuck, australians are shit

>>3391045
Yet people did run C64s on BBSes for literally several years at a time and the ICs didn't melt from electromigration.

>>3391059
I believe it has more to do with power cycling the thing which is actually more stressful than if you'd left it running continuously for a long time. Constant heating and cooling can cause electromigration in the chip, which of course would be worsened the higher voltage level it runs at.

>>3391081
Reminds me of a local story about a light bulb in a farmhouse that had finally been changed after running continuously since the 1930s (!) It had no switch on it and was running 24/7 for like 70 years. Experts were called in and confirmed that the bulb was indeed of 1930s vintage and that this longevity defied all known characteristics of the technology.

>>3391091
Yeah, running something continuously is usually better exactly because of heating and cooling over and over.
I remember that story too.

>>3391124
>PeeCee
Yup, he's option does not even matter to me.

>>3391140
He's a fucking cunt anyways. Bought some Amiga stuff from him a while back that stopped working after a few weeks. Fuck him.

>>3391162
>>3391124
>>3390960
>>3390442
Those kind of brand loyal delusional faggots are even worse then those GPU fanbois.
I love Amigas, but those kind of people think everybody else is shit and stupid not using them or seeing them with the same views as they are.

>>3391171
and that's funny because then they proceed to begrudgingly use IBM PCs

pretty much the only flaw in IBM PC clones today is how much legacy stuff is left

>>3391186
Yup, the legacy shit in today's x86 PC's is seriously holding it back.

>>3391218
there's also another issue, and that's how retarded the x86 instruction set has become

it has beautiful, meaningful mnemonics like PUNPCKHBW

i don't think it concerns anybody though, you'd have to be insane to write x86 assembly in 2016, even if you work in the embedded industry you'd probably use something else

>>3389189
why not just emulate if you are going to ruin it with so much new shit?

So, I have no idea if this is "early 90s", but just looking for some feedback on this machine, if it's worth it to grab it... it'd probably be cheap IMO, as the store is closing in 2 days. After that, all their units, laptops, PS1s, etc, get recycled...

>>3391423
Looks like a standard white box PC circa 1996.
If it's cheap enough it could be worth it to play most DOS/Win95 games, or even just for the SB16 to use in a different build.

That S3 Virge was amusingly referred to by Computer Gaming World as a 3D decelerator, since it ran most 3D games at lower fps than in software.

>>3391470
So, is the Virge good, or would I be memed? They have other AGP/PCI cards in bins, I might grab one then and push the system forward?

Dunno the price, but I'll be heading back tomorrow to see. Very tempted, given it just needs a cmos and new fan.

>>3391493
The Virge is fine as a graphics card, but specifically for 3D you'd do better with an ATI Rage or Nvidia TNT, for period-specific cards.

It shouldn't be too much of a concern, since the subset of games that need decent 3D power but will also run on a Pentium MMX 166 and don't play well on Windows 7/8/10 is not large. Mechwarrior 3 is all I can think of off the top of my head.

>>3391529
If they have an ATI Rage or Nvidia, I'll probably grab one then. Wouldn't hurt desu, and might help resale value.

Another question, resale. Could I get anything for this unit post-buying it?

>>3391573
Probably not. It's a bog-standard mid-90s x86 Windows machine, and doesn't appear to be from any notable manufacturer. Parts from that era are common enough to not be valuable, but rare enough on ebay to be annoying to find if you need them.

>>3391576
Well, I'll get a price tomorrow and have a final thought on Saturday. I can probably take it home on the bus fine, don't wanna bother anyone for a ride again...

>inb4 basement dweller
no, I Just hate asking people for stuff.

>>3391598
>>3391573
>>3391493
>>3391423
Get a ATI Rage 128 and a Voodoo 2 PCI if you ever find one, perfect combination for a old Pentium like that.

>>3391335
>new shit
You're trolling, right? That's an accelerator build with new old stock parts, they even had way better ones when the system was still at it's hight.
The other board on the bottom right may have new chips on it, but the same company already made a device that did exactly the same job 20 years ago for the same computer, this one is just smaller.
Not even gonna comment on the WIFI or CF card, nothing new.

Also I don't even care if it's time period correct, I can't wait to get my hands on a Vampire. Even right now it's still way better then an emulator.

>>3391619
Very on the fence atm about buying the PC, just cause I hate bringing stuff home, and SCUMMVM and DOSBox are good enough for me... and I can VM stuff. Just really trying to stay minimalistic.

The Sharp X1-Turbo's sorcerian additional scenario #1 soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCgidiu0aoU
Sorcerian received quite a few expansion packs, some by Falcom themselves, some others being third party expansions. I don't recall seing these being available for the PC port of the game though.

>>3391657
Ignore his shit and report. He's obviously baiting, because saying 68020 accelerators and scandoublers are new shit is too retarded for him to be serious (especially when 68030 accelerator boards were already a thing in the late 80s). Also, almost no one use "trolling" on 4chan anymore m8.

>>3392076
>Also, almost no one use "trolling" on 4chan anymore m8.
You sure don't get out of /vr/ much, do you

>>3392083
Actually I go on /m/, /an/, /o/ and /v/ quite often.

>>3392083
Actually I go on /m/, /an/, /o/ and /v/ quite often, and a few other boards from time to time, and on most boards they've replaced "trolling" by "baiting" a few years ago.

>>3392093
Oh you were talking about the word.
Nah, "trolling" is still pretty valid word, the post itself is "bait".

Dammit guys, some guy on Long Island is selling this C64 monitor for $25 on craigslist but I live in CT and that'd be a long, potentially expensive trip with the ferry fees included. I can just about forget about auto + driver since that would be over $100 for a round trip. I could pay $27 for a round trip on-foot ticket, however that leaves me with the really uncomfortable prospect of having to figure out public transportation and lug the stupid thing across town and onto the ferry.

If I paid another $27 to get someone to go with me then that brings me up to $54 + food + public transportation, which could put me back in the neighborhood of $100 when all is said and done. (Maybe I could at least get the seller to meet me somewhere near the port so I don't have to huff it as far, which at least cut out public transport.) I don't want to risk getting lost in long island alone with no car but at the same time I don't want to end up paying close to the eBay price for the thing with all the logistics involved + having to take a whole day out for all that travel. Maybe I could get my dad to sail me on his boat there but that's a real goofy solution and sailing across the Long Island Sound is an all-day trip.

Looking at what an inconvenience it is to buy and sell things on a sparsely populated island, I'm not the least bit surprised at how cheap the monitor is listed for. No matter what way I choose to get there it would end up being an adventure, and that's assuming the seller still has it since the listing is 20 days old.

Sorry for ranting on about this, but with prices the way they currently are, am I going to regret not pouncing on the thing if it's still available? I really miss the old C64 and I'd love to be able to put a full setup together again.

>>3392102
I'd pay a 100 bucks for it, the eBay logic is flaved, because a CRT from eBay with shipping is way riskier business then carrying one yourself over the seas.

>>3392102
Damn, that situation happened to me quite a few times for various monitors. Like >>3392105 said, shipping it could be hazardous because not all sellers take into consideration the fact that it's a 16 kg glass bulb that they're sending and don't put enough shock protection in the package, but at the same time, shelling 100 bucks for something that is sold for 27 isn't something I'd do personally.
Personally, I'd think the best would be to check how much would it cost to ship it, and if it's good enough, try to chat with the seller and make sure that he pour enough bubble wrap and polystyren flakes in the package for it to be safe. There's alway the chance that he won't like the idea of shipping it though.
Anyway, good luck with it, Commodore monitors of the C=64 and early Amiga era are pretty good.

>>3391218
Is this 1995?

>>3391045
Commodore's NMOS process was obsolete already by the time the IBM PC appeared; as far as I know, PCs never used anything but 5V CMOS/HMOS chips.

>>3391696
If you don't want the thing yourself, you can hock it on Ebay or Craigslist for cash. Someone else will give her a good home.

>>3392148
It has always been a problem.

>>3392154
Vat. Modern PCs do not have:

>oldskool ROM BIOS
>parallel/serial/floppy/PS/2
>OSes with 16-bit code in them.

That shit all completely disappeared since the late 2000s.

>>3391140
He gets picked apart a couple of posts later.

>>3392161
Yeah the guy's right. Doing applications on an Atari or Commodore was always a hack job. My dad used FleetWriter on his C64 and it was just a PITA compared to PC word processors.

>40 column text on a fuzzy TV screen
>only enough memory for about 6 pages of text
>a LOT of cripplingly slow disk access
>no numeric keypad
>needing to power cycle the computer when you were done and wanted to run some other program

He said he would have loved to have an IBM XT back then, but not for $4000.

I know someone who "rescued" a PET 2001-8N from the city dump.

>spots it there while dumping some debris from a backyard cleanup
>well, you're not supposed to take stuff from the dump, but nobody's looking, right?
>slip the thing into the bag that had the lawn debris
>upon taking it home, it was fully functional except a busted keyboard

It turned out that the PCB in the keyboard was actually snapped in half. He found another one on Ebay. This PET had also been upgraded to 16k of memory, he's now maxed it out to 32k.

>>3392161
>>3392164
Yeah, but this is only true to the 8-bit line of old consumer computers.

>>3392189
If there's supervision in the dump, always take a bottle of something nice or a box of chocolates, usually that will do the trick and they will look away if you ask if you can take anything home.

>>3392159
Not him but some new motherboards still have PS/2 and RS-232 serial ports. Anyway, that shit is off topic.

>>3392161
The guy is right when it comes to saying that it get the job done etc, but saying that relying on custom chips and ROM routines is bad and is what's stopping progress is pretty stupid. The Amiga did have custom chips, and yet hardware manufacturers still made 3rd party graphic cards, sound cards and plenty of peripherals.
Also,
>muh lack of proprietary-ness in PCs
The early clone manufacturers saw themselves being sued because they copied the BIOS ROM, and 8-bit computers had well documented expansion ports which allowed individuals to make their own expansions. It's not because "muh openness" that the Apple II and IBM PC received so many expansions, it's because of the 3rd party hardware manufacturers willing to make expansion cards for these computers instead of other computers they saw as toys. If a manufacturer made a graphic card for the C=64 that was a serious upgrade compared to the VIC-II chip for a price that wasn't too high, you'd be sure to see at least a few game developpers make games that support that card.

>>3392189
That's a nice find especially since the 2001-8N was discontinued in about three months and they're pretty rare. These also still have the video disable feature that was taken out of later PETs apparently because it made the screen flicker while using the disk or printer.

Later PETs also had the extra memory sockets punched out because people were buying cheaper 16k models and upgrading them to 32k so you can't upgrade the RAM in them.

>>3392194
>The early clone manufacturers saw themselves being sued because they copied the BIOS ROM
That never happened. Compaq were sued by IBM in the beginning but the case was quickly dismissed.

PC BIOSes could be easily cloned because they use vectored interrupts, not hardwired addresses like the Apple II ROMs. Thus you could make a workalike IBM PC BIOS without stealing any of their copyrighted code. And that's just what Compaq did and it opened the floodgates.

>>3392194
>If a manufacturer made a graphic card for the C=64 that was a serious upgrade compared to the VIC-II chip for a price that wasn't too high, you'd be sure to see at least a few game developers make games that support that card.
That was completely impossible because of the architecture of the C64. The VIC-II literally controls the system bus and also performs RAM refresh.

>>3392194
>Not him but some new motherboards still have PS/2 and RS-232 serial ports
The chipsets still support them (except on laptops) but they're not connected to anything.

>>3392161
He's right about the PC and Apple II being more durable. From reading vintage computer sites, it seems pretty uncommon for PCs or Apple IIs to have component failures other than RAM. Quite unlike the many tragic stories of C64s with blown VIC-IIs, blown SIDs, blown PLAs, etc.

>>3392202
>That never happened.
Tulip got their ass sued because they cloned the IBM PC without getting a "compatible" BIOS, and just copied the BIOS itself.

>>3392205
Some brand new motherboard still sport PS/2 ports. The brand new PCs my university bough this year have RS-232 serial ports.

>>3392194
>>3392161
He was talking about 8bit computers.

Also the analogy with customs chipsets and Voodoo is bad
Today's video cards are kind of custom chipsets, they just use a standard library like OpenGL and DirectX.
Same way like Amigas had for example RTG, analogous to something like DirectX, supported by the AGA chipset and up to cards like the ATI Radeon 9800, a game utilizing that library would run on an original 1200 and also a much latter Radeon 9800 or Voodoo 5.

>>3392209
My dad had bought a Pavilion P6823W which is several years old and there's no legacy ports on it other than VGA.

>>3392159
The whole x86 instruction set is legacy

>>3392217
The Amiga's custom chipset ultimately killed any upgrade path because most games bitbanged the hardware directly and upgrading to a 3000/4000 broke most A500 stuff. Since people weren't going to buy a new machine if they couldn't use the large existing body of Amiga software...

Apple for contrast explicitly told people to use the Mac's API functions and not bitbang the hardware. As a result, most 680x0 software would work up until the x86 switch.

>>3392219
Since when does anyone program in assembly language on modern software anyway?

>>3392220
That's not a fair comparison because Macs never had custom sound/graphics ASICs. They were built on the same philosophy as the PC and Apple II, which was having no hardware acceleration and the CPU controls everything itself.

>>3392220
>The Amiga's custom chipset ultimately killed any upgrade path because most games bitbanged the hardware directly and upgrading to a 3000/4000 broke most A500 stuff. Since people weren't going to buy a new machine if they couldn't use the large existing body of Amiga software...

Where did you read that?

>broke most A500 stuff
Maybe a few OCS games that where fixed later with WHDLoad patches.

>>3392159
I meant more in terms of Windoze being bloated with tons of useless legacy code. I do agree with you that there is fewer legacy hardware on recent-vintage PCs.

>>3392220
>most games bitbanged the hardware directly
Topkek, false. The ROM managed all that in the Amiga, it's actually PC graphics like the Hercules or Apple ][ that did bitbanging directly in memory.

Isn't there some "new" Amiga machine that's just an outdated PC motherboard in a mock Amiga-style case with Linux and generic GNU software included?

>>3392234
It's not related to the old Amiga corporation, just some company who bought the name and released a machine with similar visual design.
This has happened to Commodore too and not just once.

>>3392239
not just amiga or commodore, there have been many attempts to cash in on old popular names like that

>>3392220
>The Amiga's custom chipset ultimately killed any upgrade path
>Since people weren't going to buy a new machine if they couldn't use the large existing body of Amiga software...
Bullshit, many people bought the Amiga 1200 and many games still worked on them. Also it's not the custom chips that are at cause in these incompatibilities here and there, it's the fact that some developpers didn't follow Commodore's directives, like not storing additional data in the 8 last bits of the Address registers, not making self-modifying code, and not accessing to ROM routines using static addresses instead of using the vector table. Stop spewing shit you don't know about.

>>3392234
No it's some kind of PPC-based stuff. And that's off topic.

>>3392234
IDK what the point of owning one of those is except autism.

>>3392242
>Bullshit, many people bought the Amiga 1200 and many games still worked on them.

It was also all fixable in software only.

>>3392242
>Stop spewing shit you don't know about
You were doing ok until this part when you exposed yourself as an underage teenager who's probably only played Amiga games on emulation.

>>3392247
This is bait. Move along people, nothing to see here.

>>3392242
>No it's some kind of PPC-based stuff. And that's off topic.
Hes not talking about Amiga One or related hardware but typical x86 board inside a keyboard case with a keyboard and branded Amiga, google it.

>Stop spewing shit you don't know about.
Irony at it's finest.

>>3392248
Come on, dude. Only a 16 year old would go "Stop spewing shit you don't know about".

>>3392239
>>3392252
They also seem to be exclusively found in Europe. I guess the Commodore and Amiga names have less marketing power over here?

>>3392254
But he was getting way too worked up about it, only a person with passion for the real thing would do that.

>>3392257
>marketing power
Don't know if you can call it that, only sold a few hundred units.

But I bet the Amiga brand is more popular in Europe.

They sold about 4 million Amigas worldwide (all models) and 700,000 of those were in North America. The UK was the biggest Amiga market followed by Germany.

>>3392262
>They sold about 4 million Amigas worldwide

I was talking (>>3392261) about the "new" PC motherboard look alikes (>>3392234)

>>3392164
>needing to power cycle the computer when you were done and wanted to run some other program
This probably contributed to the spotty reliability of C64s. The lack of a reset button and the constant power cycling can't have been good for them.

>>3392243
I don't know what's the point of talking about it here when it's not even on topic.

>>3392252
>>3392247
Yup you don't know shit for saying the incompatibilities are due to the custom chips instead of the bad programmer's habits. All the custom chip register addresses are the same no matter which chipset you use. What changes are the addresses of the various routines programmers used, that's why every incompatibility issues you might find on an Amiga 3000 can be avoided by switching to kickstart 1.2, and why the Amiga 500+ had incompatibility issues due to the fact it used kickstart 2.0
Anyway, nice assumptions.

>>3392267
I'm >>3392252 (also >>3392227) and I'm not >>3392247
Just saying

>>3392208
And even if you had a component failure, there's millions of replacement parts. If we ever ran out of those, a PC or Apple II FPGA could be easily made (in fact the Apple IIgs essentially did use an early form of FPGA to implement //e mode).

>>3392270
You're slightly incorrect because Apple IIs absolutely DO have proprietary ASICs. Not the II/II+, but the later models and there's no source for those except other Apple IIs.

Also, the people for whom the Amiga 3000 was targeted didn't care if SWIV didn't work on this machine, they were concerned about Newtek Video Toasters and that kind of stuff.

>>3392268
Nope, I'm >>3392267 and >>3392242.

>>3392271
But again, those chips in the IIe just integrate several functions in one IC and would probably be laughably easy to duplicate in an FPGA.

Commodore's ICs are almost unique in that they rely on specific quirks in the (obsolete) NMOS process to work. This is all-but impossible to replicate.

>>3392279
What about Minimig? Whole Amiga in an FPGA or Vampire accelerator? An 68k CPU and AGA chipset in an FPGA.

>>3392279
or Commodore 64 on a chip? Made already over 10 years ago.

>>3392283
Amiga was after they switched to HMOS. The oldskool 8-bit chips were made with NMOS, a process that was already outdated in the 80s, but Commodore were reluctant to part with.

>>3392279
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV

>>3392285
>some shit put out by a Chinese sweatshop
Into the trash it goes.

There are any number of threads on Lemon64 explaining how the analog components in the SID relied on quirks in the chip fabrication process that cannot be recreated.

>>3392291
It's made by Jeri Ellsworth, an American computer chip designer and inventor.
It was her idea and project.

>>3392287
Actually they did use HMOS for later C64Cs. The HMOS versions of the VIC-II and SID are far more reliable and run cooler. It's pretty rare for a C64C to have failures except with RAM while the breadbins always have issues.

>>3392274
See again, I don't hear of problems like this happening on anything but Commodore ICs.

>>3392291
Ok look, the digital part of the SID would be laughably simple to recreate. It's the filters that pose an issue.

Yet these guys have no issues with using 1541 Ultimates?

>>3392302
Again, C64 chips are more likely to be destroyed by electromigration because they run hot due to 12V power and the fact that Commodore's manufacturing processes weren't the best. My dad knew a guy who's C64 died shortly after he bought it, but the one he had lasted 10 entirely trouble free years before he got a 486 PC.

>>3392316
From the November 1983 InfoWorld:

"The reliability of the Commodore 64 has been a subject of much contention. There is evidence that as many as 40% of machines are being returned after purchase compared with the industry average return rate of 5-10%. Commodore representatives have denied any such problem happening and 'Most of the time it was due to customers returning machines they didn't know how to set up. The power supply issues were fixed months ago and we haven't heard of chip failures.'"

>>3392321
According to Bill Herd, "If your machine lasted longer than 3 years, I must have done my job wrong. After all, Commodore wanted to sell you a new computer."

>>3392321
See >>3390960

>>3391091
It's pretty well known that light bulbs usually burn out when powered on, because the stress of that causes them to fail.

>>3391045
what exactly is electromigration anyway.

>>3392351
Basically, electromigration is a breakdown of the bonding wires in an IC caused by overheating. High voltage levels are more likely to cause it, which is why stuff like the Commodore chipsets and oldskool 4116 DRAMs are failure-prone. They use a lot of power, get hot, and break down internally.

>>3392285
>>3392289
Those probably don't accurately recreate the hardware anyway.

>>3392234
Those are pretty meaningless. The last "honest" Amiga machines are the ones with AGA chipset (A4000, A1200, CD32). After that it was all pretty lame stuff, much closer to PC and Mac, but more expensive (so basically the opposite of old Amiga).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-E2zFHL3ko

I'd say of most major retro systems, C64s are one of the least dependable.

>>3392490
Wait, why would the shit get hotter with age?

>>3392657
It
s just like how a strar sweels into a red giant before goving supernova.

>>3392383
Oh, they do anon, they do.
They can be modded into full C64 systems.
They just don't have SID filters.

>>3392691
The filters are the big problem. You can not accurately recreate SID sound without those.

I thought the VIC-II also had analog filters?

>>3392729
Yeah they're used to generate the NTSC/PAL signal.

>>3391224
>>3392223

Sadly, think about the gains in performance and stability we would get.

>>3392657
Duh, the ICs have been marinating in hot temperatures for 30 years and probably sustained internal damage. If they'd always been heat sinked from day one, this wouldn't be a problem, unfortunately they weren't.

>>3392312
Original hardware is real.
FPGAs are real too, they're just not original hardware.
Also no, FPGAs are not hardware emulation on hardware, unless you program the chip to emulate something instead of replicating it.
Having software doing the work of hardware is emulation.

>>3392102
>>3392105
>>3392114
Looks like a new opportunity has presented itself. My dad actually is going to Long Island next week on business, and his company is paying for his ferry car pass. As long as the seller still has the thing available my dad can pick it up for me while he's down there, and he'll have his car to move it. Fingers crossed!

>>3392985
Awesome anon

>>3392985
Great! I hope you'll be able to get it then. Good luck!

I'm not really an Apple guy, but what is the quintessential retro Apple computer? I rather like the appearance of the Mac 128k but the Apple 2 had a much broader impact on the industry. I'm hardly a power user so I'm mostly just interested in what kinds of old games they're capable of.

>>3392973
Actually the argument would more be that you can replace passive components like PSUs, TTLs, and RAM, but not an active component that does processing work.

>>3393040
>I'm hardly a power user so I'm mostly just interested in what kinds of old games they're capable of

Bleeper sound and that sick orange/purple/green/blue 70s color scheme.

>>3392970
I'm not sure if the ICs in a C64 could have been heat sinked when they were new. Did heat sinks even exist before the 90s? I've never heard of it.

>>3390552
Gee, lots of stuff used NMOS back then. For example the POKEY/ANTIC were made with NMOS fabrication and they aren't nearly as failure prone as the C64 chipset, nor do they get as hot.

>>3393060
Well yeah, that goes without saying. Perhaps a better question is "which one will be more interesting for someone who is just interested in retro gaming and basic computing?"

>>3393068
IIRC the ANTIC spends more time idling than the VIC-II which is why it doesn't get as hot.

Also the Atari chipset has been decapped, so in theory yes we could make new POKEY/ANTICs, the only problem being nobody still does NMOS/HMOS fabrication. For some reason they've not been able to decap the C64 chips. There was one guy who was working on the SID, but he died (tragic, the dude was only 29).

>>3393075
>basic computing
The Apple II is more of a general purpose computer and not as explicitly designed towards gaming. If you just were interested in games, you'd be disappointed when comparing them with Atari/C64 games.

>>3393078
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/186756-gtia-decap/

Seen here. The one handicap being the lack of chip manufacturers who still do NMOS. Though I think there's less of an urgency for replacement Atari chips since they're more reliable than Commodore ones.

>>3393081
The only games I really know that much about for Apple systems are stuff like the really early Sierra adventure games and educational games like Oregon Trail. I guess I'd be better off with Atari and Commodore unless I see an Apple 2 or Mac at a steal of a price.

>>3393085
The Atari 8-bits always were a disappointment to me.

>be really hot in 1982-84
>quickly deflate after 84 like a punctured balloon
>all the late 80s games that never got on them
>hardly any software support for the later models

>>3393089
Apple IIs share a lot of the same games as the other 8-bits, but again you'll be disappointed if you compare Summer Games, Jumpman, Bubble Bobble, and a lot of others to their C64 equivalents.

>>3393040
Iconic ones are the Apple // and compact Macs (the classic little ones with the built in screen)

If you're not interested in delving into hardware, a //c or IIGS will be fine. They have standard hardware you'd typically add to the earlier models built in.

For compact Macs, keep an eye out for the SE/30 and Classic II, the former being the better of the two. Color Classic will give you color, but the case shape is a little different if you're autistic over that, and the original CC is horribly crippled, (CC2 was a Japan only model.) Cool thing though is the motherboard is the exact same width as most other Macs of the 90s and you can swap them in to varying degrees of additional hardware modification.

Non-compact macs of the 90s were a bit of a clusterfuck of specs, shapes, and model names. But most any will do fine if you want to check out the games of the era. Note, macs with 3-digit model numbers are 68k, 4-digits are PPC.

>>3393061
i think RF shields can actually function as that

my C64C has a RF shield that touches the chips and it seems to have some thermal paste on it

>>3393205
Those RF shields are almost worthless. The chips need a real heat sink. At least the older VIC-II and SID definitely do. In short board C64Cs, you may want to heat sink the VIC and SID but it's not strictly necessary.

t est

>>3393473
TEST TEST 1-2-3 1-2-3

>>3387371

Anyone going to Atari Party tomorrow in Davis, CA?

>>3393880
>Atari
Check out this pleb.

>>3393212
The early VIC-IIs were ceramic, but they switched to plastic for cost reasons.

Compared to C64s, Amigas seem quite bulletproof. I've almost never heard of an IC failure or of the computer having overheating issues.

>>3394121
Amiga was after Commodore switched to HMOS so I'd think the ICs in them are much more reliable.

>>3390986
anyone on this?

What do you guys think of the Chameleon 64? I know its basically just dressing up a modern ARM microcomputer in a Commodore 64's clothing, however I can't help but be curious about how much more functional it would make the C64 for things like web features and word processing due to the much faster CPU. If nothing else it looks like an interesting conversation piece, albeit an expensive one.

>>3394876
It's FPGA not ARM, a lot of modern expansions for old computers use FPGA's now-a-days because of their flexibility.

Some computer game musics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChNkpqiaK0Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLbReNb7Pyo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkrUFxePuWw

>>3394904
>a lot of modern expansions for old computers use FPGA's now-a-days because of their flexibility.
It's understandable, it's just like putting a custom chip in your peripherals.

>>3394937
>Some computer game musics:
Those are some good picks!

https://youtu.be/PEGAwobDAiM?t=1m20s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F61rsiUPaV8


>It's understandable, it's just like putting a custom chip in your peripherals.
I can't wait to get a Vampire 2 for my 600, it's basicly a FPGA what does the job of a '030 at 500MHz.
There are also stand alone FPGA boards that can run Amiga, Atari, Spectrum, Commodore 64, etc cores like Minimig and MIST.

I also had the crazy idea last night that I make a 8-bit ISA card and put a serial controller and Raspberry Pi on it, then you could always telnet into the Pi when you turn on the computer and that would just be the beginning.

It is pretty remarkable-- 20 some odd years ago when I was first playing around with the family Commodore 64, if you told me that some day they would have an entire computer several times more powerful that could fit inside of a C64 cartridge,I wouldn't have believed it. And obviously we've give way father than that with or other computers, but it really puts things into perspective how far the technology has come.

>>3394969
>Hire guns
That one's real nice. The beginning of the part at 2:54 remind me the theme of "No second prize" a bit :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifd0ktvvX2Y (at 0:32)
Personally, I just love MIDI and FM game music. Sample-based is pretty good too imo, but I do have preferences the formers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAOp0-rlRk0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWJxOMLnNXc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7vkTOHL0lY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywT1l8tybYw

>There are also stand alone FPGA boards that can run Amiga, Atari, Spectrum, Commodore 64, etc cores like Minimig and MIST.
I'm not a big fan of these one-chip board, imo it's just like paying for an emulator. FPGA are pretty good if you want to design special chips or accelerators without wanting to rely to much on glue logic though.

>>3395042
Well 20 years ago there was that acceleration cartridge that had a 16-bit equivalent to the 6510 running at 20MHz, and some games took advantage of it (there's that one shoot em up with sample-based music and all). I think the cartridge was called Super CPU.

>>3395060
By the time we got our C64 it was already a budget machine, I think. It was probably '88 or '89 when we got ours. All of my earliest computer memories revolve around it. I was so young I didn't even know that there were more powerful machines until we were getting rid of the C64 and replacing it with a 486. My mom had already upgraded to a monochrome DOS PC at some point prior and the C64 had become "the boys' computer," but we started ignoring it in favor of the shiny new NES.

>>3395060
that game you're talking about just seems like Enforcer 2 with samples to me to be honest

>>3395334
wait, i meant just Enforcer, don't know where i got 2 from

>>3395317
My dad replaced his with a 486 too, but he'd gotten it in 1984 right when C64s were at their zenith.

>>3395317
Yeah I see. It's not like the SuperCPU sold a whole lot anyway, when it was released (pretty late, 1996) the C64 was already a machine from the past.
>>3395334
>>3395335
After a quick search, it seems that it's Metal Dust:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie79hicxteg

>>3395991
IT'S MONO

>>3395991
>>3396027
Here's a better quality vid. It's running through emulation and it's kind of hard to appreciate the dithering effects, but it's at least stereo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4FN4RiDTbw

It really is amazing that a C64 can run this (even if additional hardware is required), although it was released in 2005, a decade after the C64 had been discontinued. It's truly a testament to the C64's staying power and lasting appeal though.

Have some C64 groove.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIXFC-h3upQ

>Commodore is keeping up with you.

>>3396091
>it's kind of hard to appreciate the dithering effects
Not so much, the patterns are visible, but the impression of having a color gradient is still there though.
But yeah, at least the video don't use a single speaker. I don't know why some videos do this when they have mono sound. I mean, when you hook stereo speakers to a mono sound source, you get the same sound from both speakers, you don't have 1 speaker that produce sound while the other remain silent.

> It's truly a testament to the C64's staying power and lasting appeal though.
When you look at it, most platforms that were really popular in some countries still have some appeal in these same countries, like how the Amstrad CPC still had for a long time disk magazines and games released on it from German, French and Spanish groups, same with the MSX in Spain (again), Netherland and Japan, or the ZX Spectrum in the UK and Eastern Europe. I've read somewhere that Yuzo Koshiro still use his PC-8801mkIISR as his working computer when composing tunes for Nintendo DS games and the likes.

>>3392209
>The brand new PCs my university bough this year have RS-232 serial ports.

Bear in mind business/educational market machines are built differently than consumer market. They still almost always have PS/2, serial and analog VGA ports.

Offices, labs and warehouses are far more likely to still be using things like serial-attached equipment, barcode scanners, analog displays and the like. The OEMs either have to keep supporting these ports or lose the sales.

>>3395317
I was mistaken. My parents say they got the C64 before I was born, in '85. Neat.

So my local game shop has had a boxed C64 on the shelf for a few weeks. It originally belonged to the store owner so it should be in good shape. They want $90 for it, which seems better than the eBay price but I figured I should get your opinions before I go and drop money on it. My local shop also has a policy that if you buy a system you get a free game worth up to $6. Should I pull the trigger or hunt for a better deal?

They also have an Amiga 500 for $250, which is also from the store owner's personal collection.

>>3397718
Both are excellent deals if they are boxed and with original shit.
Look on eBay, nowadays the prices are even more expensive than what you could get them for and are only the system and the power brick without anything extra.

>>3397729
I'll make sure to head on over when I get paid this week then. I can't afford to buy both but I'm definitely at least picking up that C64.

>>3397738
Yeah, also a 500 for that price should be in amazing condition what I bet it's not.

>>3397742
It's in the box but I don't know what shape it's in. I never had an Amiga though and I don't have much experience with the games other than the ones that were later ported to IBM, so I can wait. If I only have room for one obsolete PC right now, it's going to be a C64.

>>3397303
When they use computers that really need RS-232 in laboratories they tend to use older machines (from when they were buying NEC ones, like 10 years ago), and the previous computers in computer rooms were Terra ones that didn't have serial ports. The brand new Dells they got does have a serial port though. As for the PS/2 ports, Asus still sell motherboard models that sport them. Anyway, this subject is a bit off-topic.

>>3397718
Those prices are a bit high imo. I paid 60€ for a boxed Amiga 500 + monitor + a bunch of floppies (games, tools, and a few demonstration discs). You'll tell me that these are Yuro prices, but still, I'd expect a C=64 to be lower even in the US.

>>3397839
There is a pretty good looking lot on Craigslist that comes with a bunch of stuff like the original box, a datasette, floppy drive, a printer, two joysticks and some software and books for $200. They're saying it all works, and it looks like a good deal. I have no idea where they're actually located, though-- with craigslist if they don't say what town they're in, it could be an all day road trip. The listing has been up for nearly a month and I don't know if they still have it.

>>3397839
>I paid 60€ for a boxed Amiga 500 + monitor
When was that? I know the prices have like quatribled in the past years, you can't even get a Amiga compatible monitor for 60€ anymore. Maybe only from a clueless person.

>>3397852
It was something like 4 years ago.

>>3397852
It was something like 4 years ago, from someone who wanted to sell his Sanyo MSX 1 for 97€ (a PHC-28S).

>>3397853
>>3397859
Nice, didn't buy the MSX?

>>3397864
No, that's way too expensive when you could get a Canon V20 for 30€ with twice the amount of RAM somewhere else.

>>3397875
Dunno where the fuck you're buying that shit but all the forums and eBay have ridiculous prices, maybe you're still thinking everything is cheap like 5 years ago.

>>3397883
The Amiga and PHC-28S were from a local guy I met while checking thriftstores, the Canon V20 is from an ad I checked like an hour ago on a French selling website.

>>3397889
>French selling website
Now add postage and you're done goofed again.
Also wasn't the Amiga and PHC-28S 4 years ago?

>>3397893
For postage you add 10€ for a machine like this one, or 15 if it's heavier(that's how much I paid for the shipping of my Atari MegaST + monochrome monitor a few month ago).
Yup for the Amiga it was 4 years ago yes. But you can still find cheap computers if you wait enough -- I got myself a To7/70 with it's tape drive for 25€ (+12€ shipping) 9 month ago, and a Mega ST1 + monochrome monitor for 60€ (+15€ for shipping). Yes, many people overprice their shit, especially on eBay and Amibay, but there are alway some ways to have a good deal.

>>3397718
If you buy, don't ever use the original power supply. Cut the din-plug cord off at the longest end and wire it up to two suitable wall-warts (5VDC+9VAC). The power bricks are failing all the time and will kill your chips with an overvoltage on the 5V line.

>>3398453
>C64
>draws up to 4A on 5V
I measured around 1A on my (NMOS) breadbin.
So I used a 5V, 2A phone charger with a simple crowbar circuit (fuse followed by 5.1V zener diode, in case of overvoltage).

>>3398470
It's always better to have more and stable power depending what extensions or peripherals you use.

>>3398478
But wasn't the stock C64 PSU rated at 1.5A?
If that was the case back then I would expect that these power hungry extensions or peripherals would come with their own power bricks, like it was the case with many HDDs made for the A500.

>>3398453
If I were to get one of those original black power supply units that aren't filled up with glue, how difficult are they to refurbish? I'm handy with a soldering iron and it'd be nice not to have to have two power supplies plugged in for the same machine.

>>3398482
Think about tape drives, disk drive for the C64 that draw power from the machine, even modern cartridge based add ons like ethernet.
But you will never know what shit dirty power could cause you, random data corruption or hangs, freezes, crashes.

The HDD sidecars for the A500 where big and bulky with lots of circuitry and not even all had their own power. Actually the original heavy PSUs for the A500 considered one of the best ones.
Commodore did some pretty shitty jobs with power bricks, try using the original PSU with a A1200 with a accelerator and try reading a floppy, it will fail or guru meditate, nobody uses original power bricks with Amigas same with C64.

Also
Isn't it inconvenient to have two adapters?

>>3398483
Two? You don't need two power supplies, those ones in hes picture >>3398453 have both 5V and 9V lanes.

>>3398496
>those ones in hes picture >>3398453 have both 5V and 9V lanes.

I was actually thinking "there are ones like"
Obviously not the ones in the picture

>>3398496
What I mean is that they require two spots on the wall outlet since you're effectively using a different PSU for each lane, spliced into one cable header. The original PSU only needed one plug to go into the wall.

The guy who made the PSUs in that picture also makes a really nice one with an aluminum chassis that only needs one AC cord, although they cost as much as the C64 itself-- potentially more. If I could refurbish an authentic C64 power supply it would be a lot cheaper, and it would be a much more elegant solution than the cheap aftermarket PSUs I've seen.

>>3398503
See
>>3398498

>>3398503
I think it won't be hard to put those two into a nice box yourself and just write up one AC cable to it.
It would be way easier then to mod a existing one, you could use the cable from an existing one though.
Might as well find the same two power bricks separately, they might be cheaper then those made for profit for the retro folk.

>>3398513
Maybe I will take some modern 5v and 9v PSUs and stuff them into the housing of an original C64 PSU, with them wired up to a single AC cable.

>>3398483
Maybe you could fit a modern 5V supply into it after you removed the rectifier, capacitors and the regulator but don't take my words for granted as I have no idea if this could actually fit inside.

>>3398496
>Think about tape drives
The CPU controlled 6V tape motor supply circuit uses 9V(AC).
>disk drive for the C64
I don't think there's such a (real floppy) disk drive that uses the power from the C64, this is the case for Amiga but all disk drives for the 8-bit Commodore computers have their own power supply.
>even modern cartridge based add ons like ethernet.
I highly doubt that a modern cartridge exists that draws more than a 1A (this at 5V is one fuckin watt) but why you don't just post a mass produced device for the C64 where it draws more than 1A from the 5V rail.

>nobody uses original power bricks with Amigas same with C64.
I agree with this point. I rather use my own custom PSUs for my A500 and C64.

>Isn't it inconvenient to have two adapters?
Yes.
This:
>>3398453
Looks very messy if both AC adapters go to the same plug.
I managed to get the 5V, 2A charger PCB inside the former 9VDC power brick (pic related). Not seen in the pic is a plastic wall in the upper shell (on the left) that will go between the transformer and 5V supply, also notice that this case uses screws.

>>3398540
>(this at 5V is one fuckin watt)
Ugh, messed it up. It's actually 5 watts.

>>3398530
Good luck.

>>3397718
If you buy it, heat sink the CPU, VIC, SID, and PLA (if breadbin). If C64C, just the SID and VIC.

>>3398496
I think the most power greedy thing you could attach to a C64 is an REU memory expander. These are better suited to the C128 because its PSU is a lot more beefy.

>>3398790
I think the Turbo Chameleon 64 is pretty hungry too.

>>3398790
I'm pretty sure most of the small amount of software that can use an REU also runs in C128 native mode.

There were three REUs made; a 128k, a 256k, and a 512k model, but the first is the most common due to cost reasons. The 256k REU is rarer and the 512k one seems to have no actually reached production due to the late 80s RAM shortage.

For regular C64 usage (as opposed to a "system on a cart" like Chameleon 64), how does Final Cartridge 3 stack up? It's a lot cheaper than the Epyx Fast Loader and it comes with a bunch of other features like a graphic OS. I have no experience with either cartridge so I'm curious if it's worth dropping $25 on one.

Local store has an Amstrad CPC464 plus monitor for £99, seems like a steal but is that good?

>>3398854
well you can still use your C64 like you would normally, there's a BASIC mode and all

also comes with a nice assembly monitor so if you're interested in that it's worth it

So I found this blog where the guy shows how to rebuild a C64 PSU from scratch. He has a nice little schematic showing how to build the thing using breadboard.

http://wej.k.vu/broken_stuff/c64_power_supply_repair/

The one thing I'm not sure about is I don't know what country he's from, so I'm not sure if I'm going to run into trouble regarding different AC voltage coming from the wall. I'm from the US. Is there anything to worry about in that regard, or should I be fine if I follow the guy's schematic correctly and make sure there's no chance of anything shorting out?

>>3390998
I wish it had /k/ and /o/

Finally got off my ass and got munt working with dogs boxm. Holy shit. Now I want a real one.

Dark lands just blew my ass off.

>>3391423
I want to find a store that sells old computers and such, what would I search for to find one?

>>3399409
Ebay :-D

>>3399403
What kind of person would browse /g/, /pol/, /int/, /vr/, /k/ and /o/?

>>3399431
I'm sure somebody browses only those exact boards

>>3399494
What kind of monster would that be?!

>>3373080
Their history and hardware are interesting, but there's not much software to talk about.

>>3373080
I have a MASTER (ZX clone, pic related) and a 8086 clone (system in keyboard design).

Both at half broken state. I have also seen a lot of other Soviet clone systems over the years and they pop up from time to time.

>>3398889
Got my CPC6128 (128kB of RAM, integrated floppy drive) for 25€ less than 2 years ago, so £99 for a CPC464 seems pretty expensive imo. On the other hand, the CPC was pretty damn popular here (a third of the CPC sales were in my country), so I guess it might not be that cheap in the UK. But try to see if there aren't any other offer with a better price on websites like the British equivalent to Craiglist (forgot it's name).
Also, don't buy a CPC without it's monitor, because it's the monitor that supply the 5V needed to operate it.

>>3399404
Yeah, the MT-32 sound is great. I think it even sound better than the SC-55.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3dB0qEcG20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVlJNvzifG8 (it's both MIDI MT-32 and FM playing at the same time in this one though)

>>3399269
Doesn't matter which country he is from.
All what matters is that you can find a transformer in your country that outputs 2x 9VAC up to 2A. If you can then just follow the instructions and measure the voltage on the plug before testing it with your C64.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-APPLE-II-Plus-computer-/172287002113?hash=item281d1b0601:g:gJAAAOSw-YVXmhRm

This has "Property of Chigh (?) University of Washington" stamped on it. At first I thought it said "Property of Washington Dept. of Corrections" which would be much more cool.

>no cards in here but a clock board and a parallel port one
Where's the disk controller?

>>3400341
what, not even serial

>>3400469
I was wondering that myself. Apple machines up until the USB era almost exclusively used serial printers. Most Apple II software (except maybe Music Construction Set) can't even use a parallel printer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Commodore-PET-CBM-2001-Series-Personal-Computer-/371696057315?hash=item568acfbbe3:g:tG4AAOSweXhXmhhr

>being sold as parts/repair since it's only been tested to power on

Uh...if it powers up to BASIC and all the keys work, wouldn't we generally assume it's functional?

>>3400501
>S/N 700050
Rather late serial number desu. I think they sold a total of 1 million PETs worldwide (all models).

>>3400501
>Uh...if it powers up to BASIC and all the keys work, wouldn't we generally assume it's functional?

Mostly, but the one thing that wouldn't be obvious here is a bad VIA chip. There's two of them; one controlling the keyboard and another for the cassette/disk drive/printer/user port. If the latter doesn't work, you won't know it until you attempt to load something off of tape.

So this PET is at least 90% functional, it's just that one part that is unconfirmed since the computer doesn't need the second VIA to boot up.

>>3400512
VIA failures seem pretty rare in my experience. The PET is a very, very simple computer without a lot of things that can go wrong other than the power supply, which is kind of shitty as most PSUs from that era were.

>>3400515
gee, you wouldn't know it from the lengthy PET repair threads on VCFED.

>>3400515
If the PET in that Ebay auction boots up to BASIC and the keyboard works, we know most of it is in working order; keyboard, OS ROMs, RAM, board logic, CPU, monitor, etc. The only thing that isn't required to boot up is the second VIA.

Commodore and Tandy's quality control was rather mediocre compared to Apple who built their stuff like a tank.

I've been toying around with making a nice big Atari joystick with micro switches, but lately was inspired to design an alternate overlay for it that's Commodore 64 themed.

The body is going to be made of heavy duty black ABS.I still need to order a joystick, buttons, and a Sega Genesis extension cable for the cord, but I'm thinking I might end up making a second one to use with the C64 overlay. I'm going to get them printed up on really nice self-adhesive material with heavy duty laminate like they use on arcade machine control panels. If I like the results I might end up selling some.

>>3400064
I'm having trouble finding a transformer that is 9 volts and 2 amps in my searches. Most seem to be either 3 amps or less than 2 amps. Is there any danger in using a 3 amp transformer?

>>3400823
This one works for me...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002Z2CYU/

>>3400947
That one is 1.3 amps output so I guess a 9V transformer in that neighborhood should work out.

>>3400740
Pretty rad, but the action button is on the wrong side.

>>3401020
The idea is to have it set up more like a modern arcade stick. Part of my inspiration for designing this stick is that I find it awkward to switch from right to left handed on the old systems. The right handed arcade stick was abandoned about midway through the 3rd generation in favor of left handed sticks, which were becoming more common in arcades as multi-button games requiring more finger dexterity became prevalent.

>go to Ebay
>look up DOS computers
>everything from 286s to Pentium 4s
>most well over $100
What the hell happened? I used to be able to find 15 year old computers for almost nothing there and got computers of all ages for free all the time. Are people actually paying this much?

>>3401703
Idiots on Ebay who saw an Apple I or an Altair 8800 sell for $20,000 and thought any worthless Packard Bell 486 was worth...

>>3401723
There are literally no affordable 286-486 machines on eBay right now

TRS-80 CoCos seem to be almost unaffected by scalping and sell for around $20-$50. No idea why those things in particular haven't been hit.

>>3401746
It didn't have all the TOP TEN HIDDEN GEMS so the YouTube kiddies ignore it, same with Atari stuff.

>>3389189
>37MHz 68020
WHAT?

>>3402019
Yup, it's overclocked.

>>3402032
what's up with the UNIX stuff?

did you put netbsd on there or something?

>>3402049
It's still AmigaOS.
Just a UNIX compatibility layer, BSD kernel in a library.
Picture is of Bourne shell running in kind of a chroot with it's own rootfs in a folder.

>>3401746
>>3401837
Yet the Model I/III/IV sell for...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRS-80-Model-III-3-Micro-Computer-From-Radio-Shack-For-Parts-or-Repair-/222206807061?hash=item33bc8ecc15:g:NJ4AAOSwaB5Xn5Hs

Yeah...

So I finally bought that C64 I was eyeing today. I haven't had a chance to check the voltage on the PSU yet, but I did open it up and thank God it's one of the older properly made units and not one that's filled up with resin. If everything checks out on the multimeter should I make any changes like replacing the capacitors, or do you think it's good to go?

The C64 itself seems to be in good shape. It came with the original box and all the documentation. Everything smells a little bit musty but that's probably from being in storage for so long. The only real problem I found is that I got the out of memory error message when I booted up the system, which is apparently pretty common and easy to fix. I also might put some Retrobrite on it because it's a bit yellowed.

I can probably get by fine replacing just the one RAM IC, but should I replace all of them? If one of the original RAM ICs is dead, will the others be joining it eventually? I'm also thinking it'd be wise to buy some IC sockets for the RAM to make the thing a bit more future proof if anything else fails, and I might get some heatsinks.

I definitely will be opening the C64 up tonight to have a look inside because I know that there are multiple revisions of the Breadbin and I need to know which it is I have.

>>3402474
>If everything checks out on the multimeter should I make any changes like replacing the capacitors, or do you think it's good to go?
I think you should replace the whole 5VDC regulator (if it gets very hot after a hour). Maybe you could find little a PCB with switching regulator that takes up to 20V and outputs 5V or you could at least add a crowbar circuit to protect the 5V output from overvoltage.

>>3402474
Get a different PSU and don't use the original. That's probably what cooked the RAM.

The busted RAM is probably in low memory because if it's in high memory, you'd get the normal BASIC startup screen but a lower than normal RAM count.

C64s use one bit from each 4164 chip to make a byte, meaning that chip 0 will contain the 0 bit for every memory address, chip 1 will contain the 1 bit, and so forth. A busted RAM chip will usually cause garbage characters to fill the screen and the character displayed will clue you in as to what chip is blown.

>>3402474
Don't forget to post some nude pr0n of your new sweety for us!

>>3402515
Would it be a good idea to try building my own PSU using the instructions from here >>3402227? I would presume that the transformer in this brick is still good, and that would save me the time and money of having to track down a new one that is compatible, and I could fit it all inside the original brick. I could even add a red indicator LED.

>>3402564
oops, I meant to quote this post >>3399269. The eBay thing is unrelated to this.

They might be better able to answer your question on Lemon64 or VCFED.

>>3402474
Assuming this is a breadbin, the RAM would be ordinary old 64kx1 4164s. If it's a C64C, there's only two 64kx4 RAM chips. Also late breadbins have the 64kx4 RAM.

>>3402920
I probably should have opened it up before ordering the RAM IC, but judging by the box and PSU I'm pretty confident that it's an older breadbin, so I ordered a module of 4164 memory.

Eventually I'd like to have all the RAM ICs in nice little sockets, but that's $20 I'd rather put towards a floppy drive or datasette for now.

What should I know about buying C64 floppy drives on eBay? Are there any red flags I should be aware of? What are the risks of buying one that has only been tested to power on and has not been connected to an actual C64? How hard are they to repair?

>>3403069
Question better asked on Lemon64 or VCFED.

One thing I will tell you is to not get those drives with the Alps mechanism like the pictured one because they have horrific alignment problems.

Trying to get files onto a 1541 disk poses a rather big problem because the primary methods used to do it are old and no longer workable on recent-model PCs.

>x1541 cable
Requires a parallel port. Oops.
>Catweasel controller
1995 called and it wants you back.

The 1571 and 1541-II are better but aren't 100% low-level compatible with the original 1541 which breaks a few games.

>>3403146
You can also use a LAN card on the C64, and feed the files to the floppy drive over the network. If you can figure it out it works great.

>>3403146

You can always use a flashcard with a disk writer plugin, i've written some disk images to floppies with my mmc replay card.

>>3403209
Honestly the original breadbin-style 1541 has a certain nostalgic appeal to me anyway. Seeing it brings back many warm and fuzzy memories of my childhood. I can live with it being a bit bigger maintenance, although the thing I'm most concerned about is how to avoid buying a catastrophically broken one. Is $50 shipped a reasonable eBay price?

I've seen style modifications that might be helpful in making it more reliable-- namely, adding heatsinks to particular chips, and putting little RC car fans over the PSU to force cool air through the unit. There's also potentially a trick that can make the transformer run at a lower voltage (thus less heat), although I would definitely want to do my homework before fiddling with that.

>>3403209
This is just due to copy protection, right?

>>3403146
>retro PC thread
>not having a parallel port

Just pull a 2012 Optiplex out of the trash, problem solved.

>>3403437
I'm pretty sure parallel ports were already gone from anything made in 2012.

>>3403559
2010, excuse me. The computer on my desk here was two years older than I thought.

>>3403559
Anything made after about I think 07 will have only UBS ports.

So I had some more ideas about a C64 joystick that would somewhat differentiate it from an Atari joystick. Some games work around the C64's 1 button limitation in weird ways, like how in Commando grenades are mapped to the button on the joystick in the other port, and in Great Giana Sisters you press up for jumping (which is a pretty common workaround, albeit not a very appealing one).

If I were to put a second button on the joystick and a toggle switch, I could make it so that on the first setting, button 2 is mapped to the up direction, so in games like Great Giana Sisters you have a dedicated jump button instead of having to push up. In the second position, it could be mapped to a second joystick cable coming out the back of the unit that plugs into the player 2 port, and it acts as the player 2 fire button. The two cords would be wrapped up nicely in a piece of gray or black paracord with a piece of shrink tube on the end, and the primary serial header would be labeled so as to not mix the two jacks up.

If this was going to be a product those extra components would make it more expensive, but I think it'd be a feature worth adding. I'm also thinking that if I could find a good color match, it would be nice to spray paint the plastic breadbin beige to match the C64 itself.

>>3403146
There must be some sort of PCI card you can get for parallel.

There's no way people are crazy enough to just throw out all that legacy shit.

>>3403748
The modern solution is attaching a 1541-II or an SD2IEC to the drive and using it for file transfer.

I went and did it. I think I spent most of my paycheck on C64 stuff. At least I should have a fully functional C64 setup within a week or two, but damn all these accessories took a chunk out of my wallet.

At least a Commando floppy disk only cost me $6 though. That's about as much as I can afford to spend on games right now, at least until I can get my hands on some backups.

>>3403971
And I should also point out that it's my own damn fault for buying a 1542 drive on eBay instead of hunting for a bargain, but I didn't want to wait around for who knows how long just to play some floppy disks on my new C64.

>>3403139
And the Newtronics ones with the lever are even worse with their corroded R/W heads (they didn't sealed it as good as ALPS).

>because they have horrific alignment problems.
Not always but it sure is an serious issue for people who don't know how to align it nor have any suitable equipment for that, also a disk written in a factory should be used for reference. The ALPS drive I gotten was quite fine from the beginning but the spindle motor made a horribly loud screeching sound and the transformer buzzed after it warmed up, however I managed to fix both issues on my own.

Now tell me, how does one fix a corroded R/W head?
I know that transplanting the head from an ALPS drive does work but it is even harder to do than aligning a ALPS drive.

>>3403748
A PCIe card with the MosChip chipset worked fine for me. I just used generic all purpose bipolar transistors (was either the 2N3906 or 2N3904) for my X1541 cable.

>>3404341
That's why I said you should just get a 1541-II or a Flash emu or both.

>>3403803
I meant a 1541 Ultimate or SD2IEC.

>>3404341
That's why I said you should just get a 1541-II or a Flash emu or both. The 1541-II, at the expense of breaking some copy protected games, runs much cooler, is more reliable, and has bug-fixed ROMs.

>>3404389
which games does it break?

So if I put a cassette adapter inside of a Commodore or Atari tape drive, can I load tape games from my phone?