/vr/ - Retro Games

>>3380641
go here:
>>3311239

>>3380657

Don't act like every Youtube vid is "e-celeb". The majority of them are just entertainers who use the games as props. If people are making legitimate documentaries then fine.

>>3380641

>3D graphics have become dated, Symphony has aged like fine wine

closed video.

>>3380673
wrong bord, go to >>>/v/

>>3380657
>we can never be allowed to discuss a youtube video

At least this is not a gamegrumps lets play. pick your battles.

>>3380657
>think digital foundry is an e-celeb === doesn't know what digital foundry is

>>3380673
everything I personally dont like is "dated"

Are you guys really stuck in the 90s to not know what Digital Foundry is?

>>3380698

I'm stuck in the 80s, actually.

But from what I have heard, they're some tech savvy guys that compare nerd shit like how many frames per second are in difference between PC and console multiplats and shit like that.

Do I win a cookie?

Don't gloat too hard, the PS1 got blown the fuck out in the Duke Nukem 3D video.

>>3380698
yep, they are sad isn't. But I'm smelling a butthurt sonic-seeeagah-fag.

>>3380703
well, they are still less autistic than people on /vr/ that have page long discussions about aspect ratio, pAR, CRTs, cables, shaders, where one autist gets triggered when one pixel is wrong.

>>3380703
Yeah it's an objective technical analysis using tools and hardware so it never comes down to bias or fanboy bullshit. Considering how different ports were back then, there's no reason why this can't be /vr/ related. Certainly not youtube celebrity related.

Great video. Good to see something that actually explains technical aspects of why things turn out like they do instead of some manchild angrily swearing at things.

What would a hypothetical N64 port be like?

How does the N64 handle 2D?

FMVs would obviously be cut.

>>3381091
identical to ps1. sprites are just flat 3d objects.

>>3381094
>>3381091
the n64 can't do 2d pixel art. there is literally no game. also the vi filter would make it ugly

great watch, thanks

>>3381112
>the n64 can't do 2d pixel art.

>>3381112

>>3381141
>>3381142
that's about it. n64 is bad at 2d pixel art. There aren't even 5 2d pixel art games. n64 is not even retro. fuck it

>>3381150

>>3381112
but anon thats wrong

>>3381150
I'm pretty sure there's more in Japanese that are unfiltered.

>>3381156
most these aren't even pixel art games but prerendered 3d shit like donkey kong

>>3380657
>anyone that makes a youtube video is an e-celeb
>anyone that ever streams is e-celeb
Seek help.

>>3381158

The fucking amount of frame animations per character that game has.

>>3381162

However Wonder Project J2>any other 5th gen 2D game

Princess Crown is beautiful though

Why does that fag keep showing his ugly mug on camera lately, his face has nothing to do with framerates and resolutions.

>>3381156

there is also Super Robot Wars 64.

>>3380641
>tl;dr its a shitty rushjob port

We've known this forever, but it's cool of him to explain the finer details of why.

>>3381091
>What would a hypothetical N64 port be like?

Nonexistant.

>>3381112
why would you use the vi filter on a 2D game?

>>3381303
They got some details wrong or left out tho.

Like how the game reserves an entire background layer, all the time, for the pause menu. Not only that but they reserve the second most feature-full background layer of the hardware for that - drawing a simple gradient, which is double stupid because the Saturn has a dedicated background gradient it can draw behind any layers.

Or calling the transparency in Guardian Heroes sprite transparency: it is a sprite combined with a background, and it is done entirely by the background processor.

Or that they are not using the rotating background AT ALL. The game could've used that for tons of scenes, with transparency enabled (the church, the zooming clouds at the first scene, the background behind Death, and so on). Or even just use it in a static manner.

They could've done 5 layers of parallax, plus linescroll and background rotation and transparency, all using the bg layers. Instead they use a maximum of 3 backgrounds, with sporadic transparency, and often even drew a significant portion of the backgrounds as sprites.

Granted it would take absolutely forever to explain all the retarded things Saturn SOTN does, because the game is just ridiculously poorly ported.

>>3381334

>Granted it would take absolutely forever to explain all the retarded things Saturn SOTN does, because the game is just ridiculously poorly ported.

The Saturn is some overly complex Frankenstein console. Nothing it does makes sense. They likely did the best they could, in the time given. Tubo-nerds have 20 years to play Weekend Quarterback with their superior knowledge of the Saturn gleamed from 20 years of analysis. You're not a dev in 1998 who has this project plopped on your lap, and only a short amount of time to figure out how the system works.

>>3381339
>The Saturn is some overly complex Frankenstein console. Nothing it does makes sense.

Oh, but it does, once you have some historical context. The hardware only looks stupid once you try doing things on it that it was not designed to do (eg. 3d rendering with lightning and shading). Playstation was better at 3d and lightning, and they actively pushed the industry in that direction too, since the Saturn was crap at it (they didn't allow many 2d releases for that reason too, as well as not allowing things like porting Quake, because the Saturn did that too well).


>You're not a dev in 1998 who has this project plopped on your lap, and only a short amount of time to figure out how the system works.

Spending 1 day to read through the VDP2 manual would have been enough to figure out half a dozen more efficient ways of doing things in the game.

I've a feeling that all the team did was work on the default high-level devkit to implement everything they could, without giving a shit about optimization, or even being aware of what the hardware can do. It's a miracle that they actually bothered to put in a few transparent effects there too (the blue doors, the fight with Shaft, etc).

... fun fact: the game font has the playstation controllers face buttons (square triangle circle x) still in there on the Saturn.

Is it just me, or does it seem like the saturation or gamma for just about the entire video seem off?

>>3381549
Not just you, I thought it had too high gamma as well.

>>3380641
So is this video about SotN or Dracula X then? Or are they the same thing?

>>3381904
SotN.

Dracula X (SNES) is a remix of sorts of stuff from Rondo of Blood, of which SotN is the sequel of.

Dracula X Chronicles(PSP) is a remake of Rondo of Blood that also happens to include SotN.

>>3381904
SotN was called Akumajou Dracula X: Gekka no Yasoukyoku in Japan.

I'm not that fond of SotN but the video is interesting and seems relevant to this board. I remember plenty of threads talking about how each console worked and this fits right in. Those mesh transparency effects on the Saturn look awful compared with the PS1's effects and what it should have been capable of (from the other games shown).

How was the Saturn port's music?

>>3381352
>they didn't allow many 2d releases for that reason too

Interestingly, I remember reading that Sony pushed back at Konami when they were showed SotN because they weren't interested in 2D games at all, they wanted more 3D. Probably a stretch to say it nearly didn't happen, but there were barriers to its release from even the platform holder. I bet the dev team took a lot of shit from the higher ups for not getting with the times.

>>3381973
>How was the Saturn port's music?
It's been a really long time since I've played the Saturn version, but I don't recall the music being much different, if it was different at all. Some of the sound effects were screwed up, though. The menu cursor sounds were way higher-pitched, too.

>>3381973
>How was the Saturn port's music?
Isn't it red book?

>>3381929
Ah that would explain my confusion - sometimes the video referred to it as that.

>>3382154
What's interesting is what was released in the US as Dracula X on the SNES was actually called Dracula XX in Japan. Then, when it hit Europe, it was titled "Vampire's Kiss."

Also, they altered the title screen of the US release, and added a pool of blood below the logo, but turned around and censored Richter fading into a mist of blood when he dies. Always thought that was odd. There's probably more censorship in-game, but it's been too long since I've played it.

>>3382029
>>3382041

It's the same as the PSX version, with a few added tunes for the 1~2 new areas. I want to say Beginning has a jazz/big band style version in it.

>>3381162
It's still proof to show that drawn sprite art is possible... it doesn't matter how sprites are made prerendered or drawn point is a sprite is a fucking sprite in execution you dunce.

Video could have been done in five minutes with just some text. BUT NOPE gotta have a douchebags expressing he's fucking opinions rather then just state facts, and facts alone.

>>3382471
doesnt change the fact that there are less than 5 pixel art games for n64, so it's not retro like dreamcast.

>>3382512
>triggered

>>3382658
>doesnt change the fact that there are less than 5 pixel art games for n64

Not him but you're wrong. That image is lacking a lot of other 2D games on N64.

And DC is allowed in here, read the board rules and stop shitposting.

>>3382673
I don't even know if Puyo Puyo counts, they ported those to every damn toaster in existence.

>>3380692
IKEA has better bords m8

>>3382658
>pixel art

>>3382706

It was just one of the first ones that came up on my cover art folder.

Have another one, does this count? I believe it was a N64 exclusive.

>>3382673
too bad the only 2d game on the n64 worth a shit is wonder project j2 :/

>>3382769

That's your opinion.

But yeah WPJ2 is great, I'm so glad it got a fan translation.

how do we get the nintenfags that destroy every thread out of this thread?

>>3383002
When you get rid of the segafags and the sonyfags with them. All three of you should fuck off desu

>>3383002

In what way did any fag destroy this thread? People are discussing 5th gen 2D.

Do you have anything to add about the digital foundry video? Any question?

>>3383191
retro computer fanboys are also a huge pain in the ass, all fanboys should be burned alive.

He's using a modern emulator on LCD screens to make comparisons. The transparency effects aren't that bad on the Saturn because it would make use of the ntsc cables bluring the image. On the actual hardware, it looks okay.

It's only when you look at it perfectly clear, upscaled with nearest neighbor on an LCD that the difference becomes obvious.

>>3381904

Rondo of Blood and Symphony both had "Dracula X" as part of their titles. It makes it more obvious that they're direct sequels and part of a sub-series.

Demon Castle Dracula X: Nocturne of the Moonlight
Demon Castle Dracula X: Rebirth of Blood

>>3383623
regardless of how it looks on the final screen, there's a different value of quality for approximated transparency using dithering, and transparency using alpha blending. Also, dithered transparency can only do certain fixed transparencies, like 50/50, maybe 25/75 and so on. With alpha blending you got the whole range. This matters, for example, if you're trying to fade out a transparent object put on top of something else.

>>3383623
Well, sure, it still runs like shit and is missing effects though.

>>3381339
>The Saturn is some overly complex Frankenstein console.
In what regard? The hardware makes a lot of sense. The thing was designed with a very clear vision to pump out sick 2D games, the only time that it becomes a mess is when you try to do some advanced 3D stuff.

If the hardware is a "Frankenstein console" can we chew out the PS1 for no fucking Z Buffer?

>You're not a dev in 1998 who has this project plopped on your lap, and only a short amount of time to figure out how the system works.
Funny, Capcom, Sega, SNK, Treasure/ESP etc figured out real quick how to make the hardware work properly. Maybe this specificly was Konami being retarded.

>>3383802
z-buffer is added complexity, saturn didn't support it either, so it's apples and oranges

Saturn was designed for 3D games, this revision about it being only for 2D with 3D as a bonus is blatantly false. The console was designed to be equally good at both 2D and 3D. That it utterly failed at the latter due to Sega's lack of experience in designing 3D hardware (they outsourced previous work on Model 1 and 2) is beside the point.

SGI offered Sega the opportunity to design 3D hardware for them and they refused due to a bad case of "not invented here".

>>3382658
The fact is that n64 is more than capable of doing good 2d games and SotN wouldn't look much different on it.

>>3383623
no that is false, foundry always does official test on real hardware, in this case with an upscaler like framemeister but they use this mini thing, i forgot the name.

>moar
Sonic
https://youtu.be/bZHBWPov8dk