/vr/ - Retro Games

>>3344418
Is it possible for you to have conscious thought?

If you want to make a fighting game thread just make a fighting game thread, no need to open with some /v/ tier rhetoric question.

Yes, I did for years until I got into the competitive scene

>>3344423
Not rethoric, I'm terrible at fighting games but I still enjoy playing them. I don't wanna start a fighting game general, they will only kick me out and bitch about playing the CPU.

>>3344424
Is it wrong if I want to stay away from the competitive scene though?

>>3344429
>Not rethoric

>Is it possible to enjoy fighting games casually?
>I'm terrible at fighting games but I still enjoy playing them

Looks like you managed to answer your own question there buddy.

>>3344436
That made me feel better. Thanks, bro.

>>3344418
>Bloody Roar 2

>>3344418
It's actually the best way to enjoy them since you are able to enjoy the mechanics for what they are instead of focusing constantly on stupid meta game crap to gain the advantage.

>>3344418
Of course. Had a blast playing Street Fighter with my bros growing up and none of us were ever good enough to be considered competitive. An upside to kind of sucking at fighting games means you can still have fun and be challenged by the ai when your friends aren't around to play.

I suck at fighting games but they're still fun to play. But those evofags kind of made me realize that gaming has taken another wrong turn.
Also Bloody roar 2 is the shit. Love the arcade ost. So hyped

>>3344437
>I need other people to validate what I can enjoy

Stop making these fucking threads

Considering the amount of copies Tekken 3 moved, absolutely.

>>3344418

>>3345478
>mashing like a scrub

0/10 would not waifu

>>3344449
this is fucking stupid

how can you even learn the mechanics of the game if you don't actually sit down a test them out

casual just mash like they are playing sock-em rock-em robots

meanwhile, theres is a lot of fun to be had learning move properties and figuring how you can connect them

fighting games are just a huge jigsaw puzzle, and the moves are the pieces and you just have to fit them together

>>3344418
>my friend asks me if i remember Tekken 3
>tell him i used to play it with my brother
>invites me over to play
>friend just mashes like crazy
>i hit him with Paul's d+1,4,2 since he never blocks low
>"wow, i didn't know you where some tryhard, i actually have a life so i can't dedicate all my life playing video games, etc.."

everytime

>>3345694
When playing against these friends, I recommend just punishing them with very simple commands. I know I get pretty annoyed when my friend is trying his hardest to nail that 25 hit Scorpion combo on me in MKX that he spent a week practicing.

>>3345714

d+1,4,2 = Down + Square, Cirlce, Triangle

its a 3 hit combo, nothing remotely difficult

>>3345694
>mfw making my friends cry with Tekken 3
>"FUCKING STOP the game is supposed to be fun!!! How is it fun if I can't even get a chance to play!!! You're not supposed to play that way, you are playing the FUCKING game like an idiot!!!!! You're not even good, just fucking stupid!!!"

>>3345721
Isn't it one of his high damage punches? You should just smack him everytime he misses to annoy him instead of taking half his life bar out.

>>3345478
>Getting almost perfected by stage 1 AI Fox
This is why mashers need to stick to tekken

>>3345750
>playing against a masher
>not just making him learn to block by beating it into him

jabbing him to death is the lamest shit, and he will still get mad because he will definitely know im sandbagging

>>3345714
>go to friends house
>"Hey anon wanna play a game?"
>"sure, which one"
>"Oh I don't know, how about this old, dusty copy of Tekken 5 that I JUST remembered I own?"
>"okay"
>cover is empty, the game is already in the console
>"Oh... Must've been a long time since I turned on my PS2...!"
>play vs mode
>"Look at this character, I wonder if he is any good! Guess I'll try him out! Man I feel nostalgic playing this game for the first time in years..!"
>look at him while he's playing
>he's sweating and frantically pressing the same button combination again and again trying to land some combo he practiced for a month
>punish him with low kicks and win anyway
>"FUCK YOU ANON YOU PROBABLY PRACTICED FOR A MILLION YEARS USING STUPID TACTICS FOR MORONS FUCK THIS GAME"
>play Bully instead

>>3345775
>suck at fighting games but like them
>forever playing Deception Konquest mode and Mortal Kombat 9 GOAT story mode and 300 challenge tower, Tekken 5 arcade endless matches and customizing fighters

The perfect game for me would be Soul Calibur because you can make your own dude and potentially have some kind of role playing fighting game, but I'm not feeling any of the modes.

>>3345779
>that post

sorry to break it to you, but you don't like fighting games.

You just like shitty single-player campaigns

but here i can help you, there is a game that is really good and you will definetly like

Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KrAohurTMk

>>3345786
But I wouldn't mind playing a Soul Calibur game where I can make my own fighter, gear it, and employ a fighting game system as the core gameplay. The fighting game system can be applied to different modes, it doesn't necessarily need to be a 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3 mano a mano. It's like saying you're not a true first person shooter fan if you want the context of a Capture The Flag or King of the Hill stipulation.

>>3344432
No. It's perfectly reasonable. Lots of salty manchildren and stress can turn off people.

Older or niche games got nicer communities though, especially older games.

>>3344487
Competitive fighting game became serious business long before Evo though.

>>3344429
>they will only kick me out and bitch about playing the CPU
You should play with people if you can though. Trust me, it's a lot more fun.

>>3344418
yeah, fucking smash 4

>>3344418
Yes, just don't give a fuck

I don't get fighting games, never have, really. They're all right in short doses every once in a while but beyond that I lose interest pretty quick. They all seem the same: there's a couple different punches and kicks, like 8 truly unique characters (not counting reskins), and they each have a few signature moves and combos entered via a specific sequence of rapid inputs. All things considered, there's not that much there compared to other genres. The illusion of complexity between 2 opponents reacting to eachother's movesets tends to come down to a glorified version of rock-paper-scissors, and even then in the end the pace of the action is simply too fast for human reflexes to process in any meaningful way, resulting in sheer luck playing an overly large role in determining the outcomes of matches. The different game modes are all basically the same, and there aren't usually that many levels or locales in which to fight. It is a fundamentally repetitive formula overall, and I just don't see how fighting games can claim they have the replay value to be worth it. Maybe I would feel differently if I had friends to play against who were even half-way decent players, but no.

>>3346917
OP said fighting games

>>3347103
This is bait

>>3347134
No it isn't.

>>3344429
>they will only kick me out and bitch about playing the CPU

Yeah that happens a lot. As someone who plays the CPU exclusively I don't understand why they're so narrow minded about it. Everyone has to start somewhere, and putting it on easy and learning a character with a relatively non-aggressive AI is a good place. It beats going online and getting slammed so hard you can't even get a single move out. You'll never learn that way.

I do wish the games were easier though. When you got someone saying they put 200 hours into a game and "that's not very much" because they're still a beginner the companies need to reevaluate how technical they're making their games. I always said the games should come with two modes, one for normal play where it's easier to do combos and inputs, and then a competition mode which is what they would use for EVO and is what the seasoned pros can play on and enjoy their 1 frame links and whatever. That way the game can be fun for everyone.

>>3347243
>fun

>>3344418
And btw OP, no you're not supposed to 'enjoy' fighting games casually. You're not supposed to 'enjoy' or 'have fun' 'playing' fighting games. You're supposed to crush human competition at high-level play. That's it, end of story. If you're dicking around against the AI in sigleplayer and lying to yourself that you're having 'fun' you should take up a more productive pastime like picking up garbage or knitting.

>>3347103
>the pace of the action is simply too fast for human reflexes to process in any meaningful way, resulting in sheer luck playing an overly large role in determining the outcomes of matches

This. There is no way a person can physically register what they are seeing on screen, think of a response, press the 3-6 buttons required to do it all in the 3/10ths of a second that would be needed to successfully pull off the evade or counter. The speed of nerve and electrical signals can only go so fast.

>>3344418
I kinda feel like you have to at least take it serious at first for you to figure out the mechanics and have certain command inputs hadoukens and dragon punchs be second nature. Once you get comfortable, then you can probably tune it back and just have fun learning combos and new character types.

>>3347243
Rising Thunder showed dumbing a game down to the point its literally retard mode with 1 button specials wont stop casual shitters from crying when they lose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9pqGeEubB4

Catering to these retards is a fruitless endeavor

>>3347243
>When you got someone saying they put 200 hours into a game and "that's not very much" because they're still a beginner the companies need to reevaluate how technical they're making their games.
Please kill yourself

I think a lot of the people that complain about fighting games being inaccessible are sore losers. I am an amatuer player and I'm sure I've lost a lot more matches than I've won. Even when I get completely destroyed by a much better player, I don't get frustrated. Why is it that most people's response to that is "Fuck this shit unfair game" and not "What can I do to beat that guy?"

>>3347243

>>3347103
>>3347272
These posts are based so firmly on a fundamental misunderstanding of fighting games that I'm having trouble comprehending how these conclusions were wrought.
Fighting games are not mainly about reactions. They are about learning your opponent's psychology and patterns, and controlling space in a superior way than them. There is overlap with the space control, strategy and foresight elements of Chess, the rock paper scissors elements of RPS, and the mindgames of Poker. Fighting games are among the most complex and deep competitive-focused video games ever created, and take enormous amounts of skill even at a beginner-intermediate level.
If luck factored so heavily as you think it does into winning, you wouldn't have such consistent top competitors, and people who are terrible at the games would be able to take lucky rounds off of them. I implore you to take even one round off of someone who seriously plays fighting games. You wouldn't. Not because they're lucky, but because they are better than you.
Fighting games are about the human desire to compete and get stronger. They have infinite replay value because they are nothing more than a vehicle for the competition. In a well designed fighting game, so long as you have another person to play with, you have more game to learn about and get better at. Singleplayer is a lame afterthought of fighting games (as they should be because the mechanics do not work at all vs computer AI,) stemming from the arcade mode which only exists to give you something to do while you wait for a human opponent.

>>3347801
Because due to the nature of online you'll probably never fight that guy again after the current session, so trying to learn to counter his strategy is pointless since the cycle will just repeat with a new guy next time. 98% failure rate isn't very fun.

>tfw playing the arcade mode in ggpo everyday in 2002 for hours
>tfw last time I played a human was like seven years ago
>tfw still play kof 2002 arcade mode while I watch a youtube video
>tfw I OCV the AI everytime with several perfects
>tfw plebs could never understand it.
>tfw other games are now baby tier dificulty
;)

Yes. Soul Calibur 1 you can pretty much smash some buttons and move around the analog stick that you will make some cool visual moves and win matches just fine.
Unless you increase the difficulty level like crazy, if you play as it is you will pretty much have fun without memorizing moves.

>>3347853
As someone who plays chess I don't see the relation at all. With chess you have unlimited time to look at every possible move and weigh them to see what's best. SF is like doing all that in a tenth of a second, which is not possible. It's one thing to say you are aiming to outwit your opponent but when they're zipping all over the screen inputting commands before you can get a single one out there's not much else for you to do BUT react.

Arcade mode is necessary for people like me who have trouble connecting LP to MP in a combo because it requires a 3 frame window (or whatever it is) and we can't time it that fast. I need single player so I can put it on easiest and still have fun beating the characters up. Whether they're CPU or real doesn't matter. This isn't some dick swinging contest to me where I have to be the best or strongest guy on the block. I just want to play as cool looking characters and have them do flashy moves.

frankly if anything I think the competitive scene has made them LESS enjoyable

Not that I want the games not to be more complicated or anything but the whole FGC thing is just generally really off putting.

>>3348008
>As someone who plays chess I don't see the relation at all.
That's because you don't understand fighting games on a base level, you are proving it more and more with each post.
> SF is like doing all that in a tenth of a second,
yes
>which is not possible.
no
Well, you'd better go to Evo in a week and tell them all that what they're doing is impossible.
> there's not much else for you to do BUT react.
You speak so matter-of-factly as if you knew all about the world, yet you repeat this untrue statement. Reactions are an extremely small part of fighting games. Anything in the games you are designed to react to, such as jumps or slow overheads, have large 14-40+ frame windows of time that let you do what you need to do.
>can't time it that fast.
Link-based combos are about rhythm, not being fast and games exist where links are not the main part of the combo system.
>I just want to play as cool looking characters and have them do flashy moves.
Fighting games are not for you. A genre vaguely similar to fighting games already exists if you want to mash buttons and be successful without skill, and they're called beat em ups.

>>3347860
I don't play online much. I play Third Strike, MvC2 and XvSF at one arcade, and SSFIV, TTT2, and the ArcSys games like BlazBlue and Persona at another.

>>3348048
>>which is not possible.
>no
>Well, you'd better go to Evo in a week and tell them all that what they're doing is impossible.

What I'm saying is if you both jump at each other and do an attack there's no way to know who's will land over the other one because humans can't process information coming in and output a response in the 10 frames it takes the jump to occur. That is why there is a lot of luck involved. Even if you can read that the other guy was going to jump at you and chose ahead of time you would counter it, there's randomness in who's actually going to get hit and who isn't because of hitboxes and stuff.

Beat 'em ups are nowhere near as flashy, exciting, or fun.

>>3344418
>Tekken 3
>eddie
>mash that capoeira shit

Option 2
>Gon
>mash that tail attack

Congrats, you are not hated by everyone.
"Pro" scene or whatever killed all my interst in fighting games by the way. I can play some old fighters and I'm decent at it but fuck muh competiveness and muh hardcore gamez. I don't know when this started but I was happier in the past when people didn't feel the need to validate themselves playing "hard" games.

>>3348096
>What I'm saying is if you both jump at each other and do an attack there's no way to know who's will land over the other one because humans can't process information coming in and output a response in the 10 frames it takes the jump to occur.
Ryu's jump in SFV takes 45 frames to complete and he spends 38 of that in the air.
It is not necessary to know specifically which button is being pressed when it is already happening, because you aren't reacting to the attack. You have already predicted which attack your enemy wants to use, and the jump takes so long that you can do whatever you please to stop or evade it. In fact, air-to-airing to stop jumps is a less common option and isn't usually very effective in the first place. Anti air buttons and specials exist for this purpose, they are designed to stop jumps.
There no randomness or luck involved at all. Hitboxes are predictable and never change. You can predict every single outcome. If you were hit out of the air in an air to air situation, it's because you attacked slower, you picked a button with an inferior hitbox for the angle of approach, you used a slower button with long range when you were close, you picked a faster button with short range when you were far away, you had a worse angle for the air attacks your character has or any combination of these things and more. In short, you got hit because you suck, not because the stars aligned that day.

>>3348121
Well to me that all means it's luck. If you take a piece with yours in chess it is going to work 100% of the time. Even if you anticipate right in a fighting game but are a fraction of a second slow or get beat out by the other guy you may have had the right strategy but you still failed because of execution problems. And I don't believe for a second at the speed these games go players are going to be pixel perfect on hitboxes all the time. It's not as easy as you make it sound. And that unknown is why it comes down to luck, because you can think you pressed everything perfect but still get hit because you were just a frame off.

>>3344418
Yeah, if you have friends.

>>3348330
>Well to me that all means it's luck.
Your human error is not luck. It's just you sucking dick.
>Even if you anticipate right in a fighting game but are a fraction of a second slow
So? Be faster then.
>get beat out by the other guy
So? Pick a better option next time.
>may have had the right strategy but you still failed because of execution problems
This is a hurdle in every realtime videogame.
>And I don't believe for a second at the speed these games go players are going to be pixel perfect on hitboxes all the time.
Reality isn't based on your opinion, especially since you clearly know so little about how these games work and how they are played.
>It's not as easy as you make it sound.
It is, because I play these games proficiently and watch them be played at a top level regularly.
>And that unknown is why it comes down to luck, because you can think you pressed everything perfect but still get hit because you were just a frame off.
Your lack of skill is not luck. You are not unlucky because you failed to do something correctly. You are just bad.

A big problem with the genre is each game feels like it has to one-up the last. What happened to the early days like Mortal Kombat 1? Just two special moves per character, basic punches and kicks for everyone, and that was it? Now games have 3 meter bars, super, ultra combos, EX specials that may or may not have armor, other gauges that affect how or when you can break out of combos, etc. It's all too much. Skullgirls has a great tutorial but it's so complicated with all the bars and levels of gauges, who can even digest all that? No wonder it's a dying genre. It's too hard for newbies to get into.

>>3348121
are there places that explain these hitboxes and what strategies new players should use, and how to recognize the situations to use certain strategies for? does the computer AI have "tells" or "cues" so the player can learn how to win?

do any fighting games have ways of turning on the hitboxes so that players can see them in real time?

>>3348459
I've heard that baseball players can watch the pattern of the stitches on a ball and know what kind of pitch has been thrown.

basically what I'm getting at is, can you watch the enemy character, recognize how he moves, and know which commands to enter that will block and damage the enemy?

or is high level play in fighting games more about being proactive? is there a way of looking at the enemy and knowing if it will block a certain attack, and if so, which attack to use instead?

the way people talk about fighting games, it seems like they can "read" what's going on in a way that casuals can't.

>>3348459
The best way to get a handle on strategy is talking to players for the particular games that interest you, SF is generally considered a baseline that teaches skills you can carry over decently well to any other fighter but each one has enough particulars of its own that you won't pick it all up right away if you're playing it for the first time

Watching matches between top players will help you after you've already got a handle on the game but it's like watching poker where you'll miss way too much of what's going on to benefit from it if you're coming in from a complete fresh start, even though everything is right there on the screen

Skullgirls has a built-in hitbox viewer in training mode, and various other games have hitbox viewers created by people who managed to hack the game and figure out what's going on internally; some sites such as SRK's wiki have hitbox snapshots

>>3348448
Yeah, it's almost like the people that actually play fighting games have mastered the simple ones and want games with more complexity and depth. But if everything were up to you, every fucking game in the world would be Snakes and Ladders. Even a retard with the intellect of a six-year-old such as yourself can figure that game out, right?

>>3348046
It also made characters less fun to play around with for the sake of "balance". Swear MK is the only game that hasn't fallen under this trap and look how the FGC reacted to a series that was actually FUN to play. Yeah what a mysterious concept FUN is right? Fuck them for killing the best party genre with their pathetic attempt to mold them into a sport cause they're too much of a sissy to play football or basketball.

>>3348474
AI usually doesn't have clear "tells" since in a lot of games the AI either just responds to your actions very quickly or wanders around almost randomly, so any patterns in behavior you'll see in AI tend to be due to bugs that make it possible to maniuplate them by performing certain actions. Bosses in SNK fighters for example tend to be insanely strong but certain moves you can do will cause them to freak out and leave themselves open: https://youtu.be/lk_5jDjlrOo?t=1m45s

Tells are a big deal when fighting human players though, because a lot of people have patterns in their playstyle that they often fail to change up once the opponent has caught on to them. When players talk about reads they're talking about getting to a point where they feel they've figured out what the opponent is likely to do next in a given situation and can take advantage appropriately, and part of how they reach that point is by being proactive as you mentioned and trying to force situations that require some sort of response from the opponent so they can see a bit of what makes you "tick"

>>3348516
It's easier to read the AI's tell per character than it is to learn 1,000 different player's unique tells per character. AI > people again.

>>3348048
>have large 14-40+ frame windows of time that let you do what you need to do.
>>3348048
>large 14-40+ frame windows
>>3348048
>14-40+ frame
>>3348048
>large
>>3348048
>time that let you do what you need to do.
This must be bait.

>>3348676
Thirty frames is half of a second. That's 500 ms because I doubt you can do that calculation yourself. High end of average reaction time for visual stimuli is 200ms. For auditory stimuli it is 150~ms. These reaction times improve further with the introduction of adrenaline, which is a common factor when playing competitive games.
40 frames is a pretty average, if not on the slower side, speed of a jump, it is 664ms. Well above half of a second to input one button to anti air.
14 frames is 233ms. That's uncommonly fast for an overhead, and still well within what you can react to to once again input one thing, a block. Ryu's collarbone breaker in SFV is 20f, or 332ms. Nearly a third of a second. Xrd Ky's Greed Sever hits crouching on frame 17, 282ms.
None of these are unreasonable, and tens of thousands of players react to them on a daily basis.

Bushido Blade1 - 1 hit kills, only 3 stances with 3 kicks - high, middle, low. But it also has bunch of weapons and chars with different abilities for their favorite blade if you want to get nerdy.

Evil Zone - literally smashing random buttons - the faster - the better. Only 2 buttons - attack and block. You select attack type by pressing attack button + arrow combination. Though it's heavy anime-styled.

>>3348713
Well, it's clear you're not going to change your mind about any of this. And I don't give that many fucks about this subject myself, so let's just forget it.

Take it from me though: as a certifiable Sonic autist myself, looking over these replies I gotta hand it to you, fighting game bro. It's a shame you never got into Sonic instead. You coulda been fast. Real fast.

>>3348490
Funny its shitters like you who cry the hardest when a character is "OP"

Let see how much "fun" you claim to be having when you are stuck in an inescapable infinite or TOD

>>3344418
Try OMF2097, I'm casual and had a lot of fun with it.

This thread proves why no one likes the FGC. Bunch of elitist assholes who don't want anyone else to join their secret club. Enjoy your dead genre in 10 years when all the vets retire and no one else wants to start because the entry barrier has been set too high.

>White Man Tier:
Street Fighter

>Sub-Human mud race tier:
Everything else

Can we all agree on this?

>>3349331
10 years
what
last I saw SF5 wasn't even in the top 100 of steam's most played games and from what usf4 players said it is an easy game.

it's funny how smash bros is allegedly the closest thing from a fighting game besides an actual fighting game and is way more popular

>>3349337
last time I checked fighting games were popular amongst japanese, niggers and beaners

>>3349331
Someone being better at a video game than you doses not make them "elitist"

You being shit at a game and then demanding it be made easier just because you cant be bothered to learn how to play does however make you an elitist.

Of course you can, man. In fact, I was just playing Bloody Roar 2 on my PSP while I was waiting for my coffee to brew. I like it. It brings back memories, and that should be enough to enjoy it.

>>3349410
>Playing fighting games on a PSP
How is this even possible, i tried playing guilty gear once on a PSP and almost threw up with motion sickness.

>>3344418
Yeah.
I'm ABSOLUTELY SHIT at fighting games unless it's competitive Smash, which isn't really the same thing.
I fuggen love MvC3 but I'm mostly button mashing and using very basic Shoryuken style movements. I love the characters, art style, fast paced gameplay. I want to get good but, it's hard man.
Also a huge fan of the old Soul Caliburs, they had great atmosphere and gameplay.

>>3349331
Are we reading the same thread?

>>3349003
Scuse me kiddo but I never cry about something being OP because I only care about having fun with friends, something you FGC fags don't know about.

>>3344418
Stop making this stupid thread, OP. Changing a few words doesn't mean I don't know it's you every time.

>>3344418

When I really think about it, I would have to say no.

All casual play I engaged in from kid to adult was just a mash-fest where one or both players ended up frustrated.

It would go

>someone figures out a move or combo that seems to beat all others
>spams it and wins hollow victory after hollow victory
>eventually players agree not to abuse it
>back to playing rock em sock em robots mash fest
>repeat until bored of the game, go play something we actually understand

Every time.
So I would say your enjoyment is highly limited by your knowledge of the game mechanics. It's not a ludicrous thought or statement honestly.

Looking back it's kind of crazy how fighting games had any mainstream appeal, and yet they were everywhere.

Though I did prefer those days a bit. Today, with every fighting game made for the tournament scene and subject to change at any time with a patch or DLC, it's just not the same.

>>3344432

Yes, it probably is wrong. You're probably being some kind of reverse-elitist who prides himself on not being one of those "douchebros" who isn't afraid to pop off or get mad over the games he's invested in.

If you have another reason that's actually valid I'd love to hear it, but I know you don't.

>>3347131
jej

>>3350185
Funny, these people look like they are having fun to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzS96auqau0

Meanwhile i get constant hate messages from kids like you for "spamming" or "being cheap"

>>3349337
More like,

>Not pleb tier:
Everything else

>Pleb tier:
Street Fighter

>>3344418
>Is it possible to enjoy fighting games casually?

Haven't you looked around the world? It's possible to enjoy just about anything. It's possible to enjoy getting kicked in the nuts. It's possible to enjoy painting yourself blue and pretending to be sonic.

Of course it's possible. I don't understand not wanting to improve, but it's not me we're talking about. Do whatever makes you happy, dude.

Pretty interesting thread.
>>3347853
>>3348121
>>3348516
>>3348713
Thanks for these detailed explanations. You really sound like an arrogant asshole though.

>>3351418
He sounds a little arrogant because he knows what he's talking about. I don't get the asshole part though.

>>3344418
Honestly? I would say no. Not really.

You can get a little enjoyment out of them just looking at the cool characters do their flashy moves. But it's akin to thinking you enjoy Chess because you just like playing with the little wooden figures as toys. You are "enjoying" Chess, but in a completely different way than someone who is really playing it.

The real enjoyment of Chess is the strategy of playing against someone else who is using their own strategies to try and beat you. It's not about the little horse and the little castle, it's about what they represent and how and when to use them to defeat your opponent.

Playing fighting games vs the computer takes all the real strategy out of the genre and reduces it to something much less interesting than it is when played properly. I think it's hard to truly enjoy something that's been gimped that much.

Please define playing a fighting game casually. Is it fighting with the AI only or with friends?

>>3351934
The difference with chess is that you can have an equally challenging and fair time fighting the computer whereas in a fighting game that's somehow bad.

>>3352014
Fighting the AI in both is a terrible idea. Unless you are a grandmaster at Chess, the only reason you're able to win is because the computer lets you win. The case is the same in fighting games. If you win, it's not through skill of your own, it's because you were, through RNG, allowed to hit the AI enough times to win.

>>3352176
You don't really do it to win, you do it for practice. I do tactics puzzles online against an AI and it takes scenarios and works you through them. It's kind of the same SF. You do it to learn timings and how to counter basics, not to become an EVO competitor.

>>3352176
>If you win, it's not through skill of your own, it's because you were, through RNG, allowed to hit the AI enough times to win.

This just demonstrates a fairly poor understanding of how video games work in general.

>>3352315
You cannot beat a perfect AI in a fighting game. You cannot outskill them. There is no mixup you can perform on one. No grab will be unteched. No normal you use will not be punished before they even become active. If you happen to make any of these things work, it's because of pure dumb luck that the AI didn't decide to counter it. The AI is not predictive, it is reactive.

>>3352294
Practicing against an AI does almost nothing to benefit a player who wishes to learn. If you need to learn counters to something, you set up the training dummy to do it. If you need to learn timings, you just sit in training mode and train it. If you need to learn the basics, you play against someone just as new as you.

>>3352375
Training mode is incredibly boring. At least with the AI it mixes things up. Plus if you know a counter is coming is that really a test?

>>3352621
>Training mode is incredibly boring.
That's your opinion, I'd say that fighting a braindead AI is about as fun and satisfying as kicking an infant.
> At least with the AI it mixes things up.
No, it just does random shit with no logic behind it, or reads your inputs and destroys you through no error of your own.
>Plus if you know a counter is coming is that really a test?
Are you really training counters against an enemy that knows nothing about baiting, spacing or setups? If I want to see what I can do to stop something in a specific situation I can do that on a training dummy, as opposed to fighting an AI and just praying that they randomly do whatever I want them to do.

This thread is still alive?

Goddammit.

>>3352014
>The difference with chess is that you can have an equally challenging and fair time fighting the computer

I very strongly disagree with that actually.

>You cannot beat a perfect AI in a fighting game.

There's no such thing as "perfect AI". That's part of what you're fundamentally not understanding. AI is stupid, that's the whole problem with it. It can throw out moves and combos, but it can't think strategically.

That's why fighting AI sucks so much. The only way they can make it a challenge is by having it be able to react to your moves before the animation even starts. Computer Chess is the same. You're not playing against something that's thinking and strategizing against you. It basically takes everything that makes it fun and interesting and throws it out the window.

>>3352621
>>3352659
Training mode is boring, but it's meant to be. It's similar to any other kind of training. Hitting a speed bag is incredibly boring compared to being in a match, but you do it to build muscle memory. Training mode is the same thing. It's mostly good for practicing combo execution, what you can make link into what. That's about all it's good for though in my opinion.

>>3344418
Sure. Most people do just that. If they played against a gud competitive player the round would last a few seconds and be boring for everyone.

Even a casual playing against a gud player can be enjoyable for both. If the gud player isn't an autistic tryhard cunt. When playing against someone who's not near my level I'll usually agree to all sorts of rules limiting what I can do. It gives them a chance and gives me an opportunity to hone specific techniques against a live, potentially unpredictable, opponent.

Perhaps the best part is it gives me an opportunity to interact with people who aren't autistic tryhard cunts and help them improve and enjoy the game. A real breath of fresh air, as anyone who plays competitively should know.

>>3353701
>it gives me an opportunity to interact with people who aren't autistic tryhard cunts

All this salt!

>>3353701
Fighting games are always best with someone close to your skill level. One of the things that makes them so great is that it doesn't matter what level you're at. If you're close to your opponent it will be fun from the first time you play and all the way after that.

Optimally in my opinion they're the most fun when you're playing someone slightly better than you. So they feel beatable but you really have to work for it. But obviously that doesn't always work out.

>>3353691
>There's no such thing as "perfect AI".
You can make an AI that always blocks and does a dragon punch every time you're in range and in startup of something. That's as perfect as it needs to be and such AI already exists.

And then you go on to say exactly what I said, so I think you're confused.

>>3353910
That's what all AI is like. I would hardly call having to read your inputs perfect, but whatever.

>>3353691
>There's no such thing as "perfect AI". That's part of what you're fundamentally not understanding. AI is stupid, that's the whole problem with it. It can throw out moves and combos, but it can't think strategically.

Not that guy but that's the whole point. It's not supposed to be. It's only supposed to be a challenge for you to overcome. Bowser in SMB1 did not fight you strategically but he was still an obstacle you had to get by in order to win the game. He was an easy obstacle, but still was one. M. Bison in SF2 was a pretty hard obstacle but I finally beat him and felt really good about finishing that game too. You have to understand not everyone who plays these games wants them to be tactical or competitive. We just like playing around with them for 15 hours, learning a character just enough to beat the pre-designed boss Capcom made for us, and then move on to something else. I beat USF4 this week and was happy then went to play Bucky O'Hare the next night. I don't want fighting games to be my life, I just like the small goal of beating the final boss and that's good for me. I have no intention of getting good enough to become a pro player because the game doesn't interest me enough to spend 3000 hours on it.

>>3354065
You don't have to be a pro, or even have played much to have fun in multiplayer. >>3353727 If you and whoever you're playing with are similarly skilled they're always a ton of fun.

There's nothing to say there can't be some fun to be had playing the way you describe, I just think it doesn't come anywhere near being as good as playing with people. I would almost consider them a different genre like that, it's more like playing a Beat Em Up.

Certainly do whatever makes you happy though.

>>3354118
>If you and whoever you're playing with are similarly skilled they're always a ton of fun.

This is true. But it's really hard to find the right level opponents online. As a 0 BP/PP player it was matching me with guys in the 4000's. I didn't survive long.

>>3354253
Random online is almost always going to be like that. If you new to them it's best with a group of friends.

>>3344418
>casually
Nigger there's a reason why unranked matches exist.

>>3354258
>implying I have friends

>>3354279
You have bigger problems than being bad at fighting games then.

>>3354279
It's even harder to have friends who are also into fighting games.

>>3349337

No. SF fanboys are worst fanboys.

>>3354302
We're talking about getting into them. So your friends wouldn't have to be good, just wanting to play a fun game and willing to learn.

If the game is well-made, you need to get pretty good before beating AI on harder modes. There's many reasons why you wouldn't play competitively (spotty internet connection in my case), and some fighters have really good singleplayer modes. One example is SF Alpha 3's World Tour, or a more modern favorite, Virtua Fighter. God damn the exhaustive tutorial that explains everything ever, I love it.

>>3355231
Virtua Fighter 4*

Seriously, does any fighter at the time come close to this?

>>3344418
Yes

>>3355239
>Seriously, does any fighter at the time come close to this?

Nothing comes close to it *today*, other than VF5 (but that one is too much of a juggle fest).

the only one i could play casually was psychic force

>>3344418
Only if you have Tekken 3.

>>3354263
>unranked=casual players, and not shorter search times.

>>3355254
This is the perfect answer. Even my mom could play MK2 back in the day and would vore fatality any chance she got. Just get some pals and have a fucking blast.

>>3355305
Most modern fighters have a bunch of options for finding matches so if there's a decent player base it shouldn't be hard to find someone close to your level and play with them a bunch.

Unfortunately retro fighters are harder. Anyone still playing Super Turbo or '98 will probably be quite skilled. If you're looking for something more casual it might be harder to find good matches.

>>3347131
This

>>3347103

Guys, we just have detected the beta weeb that everyone beat at school

>>3356276
lol yup, that guy is a comedy gold mine. When he goes into how they're too fast for human reflexes to process and it all comes down to luck I totally lost it the first time. Great reads in this thread.

>>3353720
>autistic tryhard cunt detected

>>3348720

Evil Zone has a pretty neat rock/paper/scissors dynamic, if you really get into it. Same with Destrega.

>>3356365
You sound upset.