/vr/ - Retro Games

>>3171141
When I played through Blood I was really hyped to fight Tchernborg, because it had been built up all game and the in-game manual didn't actually have a picture of him. When I made it to the last level I never actually got to see him as my view was obscured by explosions from my napalm rounds, and then he collapsed into a crumpled heap a few seconds later. Lucky the rest of the game was so damn amazing.

>Why are /vr/ boss battles so bad?

You're making a generality out of FPS games.

Yes FPS boss battles have always been bad, but honestly? Most of them aren't any better these days. Past few years only boss FPS boss battle which I truely felt had interesting gameplay mechanics was in the reboot of ROTT, although I can't seem to find a picture of the one I'm thinking, it was a flying one IIRC but not the final one.

So it's not just retro FPS games which have bad bosses, it's FPS as a whole.

Retro games can have great bosses. Better than the scripted shit we get these days with gigantic flashy weak spot and as if it wasn't enough, a voice in your repeating over and over to shoot that spot.

>>3171185

This, you're talking about FPS games OP. Most of them are just bullet sponges that run around. I think this hasn't even changed that much even in modern FPSs.

>>3171185
>>3171206
To be fair, modern shooters don't have boss battles as often anymore, which is good seeing as they're shit. Feel free to discuss any good boss battles doesn't have to be fps

You should have enjoyed dueling with him.

>>3171185
i still love them

>incredible well developed gameplay throughout the entire game
>boss is just a regular enemy but 20x larger
>5 second cut scene of protagonist walking away after defeat then back to the main menu

classic pc gaming

>>3171141
Metroid and Casltevania bosses were pretty decent

>>3171141
Duke Nukem 3D actually had pretty solid boss battles.

Nothing advanced, but you had to make an effort to fight for your life, because they were big, bad, fast and would crush you under their heel if you got too close.

>>3171185
>Past few years only boss FPS boss battle which I truely felt had interesting gameplay mechanics was in the reboot of ROTT
If you can be arsed to play it, the final boss in Wolfenstein 09' is actually really challenging.

*BONK*, imprison, torture, and convert

now that's one useful final boss

>>3172223
>If you can be arsed to play it, the final boss in Wolfenstein 09' is actually really challenging.

Never played that one, is it any good?

Jesus christ what a disappointing final boss Quake had. I felt I had been tricked, there wasn't even an actual fight aside from mowing down a few shamblers on the way to him, then all you do is telefrag him? Lame as shit.

>>3171185

>I can't seem to find a picture of the one I'm thinking, it was a flying one IIRC but not the final one.

This guy? Took me a ton of tries to beat him

>>3173240
Well, it has a lot of modern shooter elements, like, it has basic regen health, which is kind of boring, and it has Iron Sights, but they only really matter for the Panzerschreck, Mauser rifle and the Sturmgewehr (and even then, you can just spray like a mad badger with that too)

You collect hidden treasure which is worth money, and documents to unlock upgrades, this cash is put towards those weapon upgrades, like getting a silencer and double-sized magazine for the MP40, modifying the Mauser for a stripper-clip guide for fast reloading, or fitting a bayonet (my favorite) for replacing it's melee attack.
All weapons have a melee attack (so even if your gun is empty, you're never defenseless), most of them are the same, but the Mauser can have it's stock strike replaced by fitting the bayonet, which is fast and does fantastic damage, and this is one of my favorite things, because using the medallion to slow down time, sprint into a crowd of nazis and slit their throats with your bayonet before they can react (which must look surreal from a third person perspective), is one of the coolest and most satisfying things to me (the gurgling is very visceral)
The game intends for you to use the Mauser as a sniper rifle because you unlock a scope later, but I personally just used it as a combat rifle/spear, I ignored the silencer and scope, I liked the boom and the WW1/WW2 feel of bolt-action combat, it appealed to the /k/ommando side of me.

There's also the flamethrower, which is one of my favorite flamethrowers in any recent vidya, because with one basic upgrade it actually has realistically good range. The Panzerschreck has tremendous power (especially with the medallion powerup), not only will it do it's actual job and help you destroy tanks, but it can be upgraded to have a magazine feed, as well as seeking rockets (which doesn't really make any sense, but whatever).

But then there's more fantastical weapons, like the tesla cannon (which has a tazer attack for a melee strike), the beam gun, etc. There's also grenades you throw from a quick-button, these can be upgraded too, so that you can carry lots more of them, make them explode harder, spray more shrapnel, etc.

All the weapons you have, you carry with you and pick from a weapon wheel (I think something like 8 guns), the last two weapons you used you can swap between with a quick button.

Then there's the medallion, which has various magical properties, and you upgrade it as you go, it has the ability to look beyond the reality of this world and see and interact with things you wouldn't otherwise be able to, the ability to slow down time (my favorite), the ability to put up a forcefield, the ability to power up your shots (and I mean all your shots), which can penetrate enemy forcefields, etc. It has a limited charge, but it can be upgraded to give you quite a lot of time to work with.

All in all, it does a bunch of modern shooter stuff, but it also does some old shooter stuff. I found it to be flawed, but ultimately pretty good despite the flaws. I'll criticize it for:
>regen health
>calling it just "Wolfenstein" for no good reason, when it should probably have been named "Wolfenstein: The Black Sun"
>non interesting plot

The bossfights are not shabby, especially the later ones. The game is reasonably challenging on medium difficulty, I couldn't defeat the final boss on medium difficulty, he's a considerable spike.
The levels are mostly linear, but do reward you for exploration, as there's hidden documents and treasures to be found.
I think it mostly balances some of the better features of old and new shooters, sort of.

If you're playing it on console, consider getting the Wolf3D port for it too, it's nothing special, but if you beat the first episode and find the first secret level (on any difficulty), the game gives you an extra $1000 at the start of Wolf09

>>3171227
OMG THIS GUY

Took me like two years playing on and off to beat this sonuvabitch. Somehow I had beaten Xaero on Quake 3 numerous times beforehand, but Xan... that fucker was hard to kill.

Anyway, most FPS bosses are shit. Xan and Xaero are two of the only good ones I've encountered. Doom's "boss" enemies work well as level enemies like in Doom II or Thy Flesh Consumed, but they're anticlimactic as actual bosses.

>>3173250
>him

Study up on Lovecraftian mythos, she doesn't even know you exist. You're like a microbe to her.

>>3173251
Found it, I'm thinking of the ep4 boss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QtTEdO4dPM

ROTT 2013 has plenty of flaws but overall I think it had good bosses. I didn't exactly play fair against the ep3 boss though, iirc there is a trick that lets you pretty much one hit kill you?

>>3173250
Quake's bosses are puzzles. It's like they knew regular "shoot at it until it dies in a giant room" bosses were already overdone and sucked.
But puzzle bosses aren't exactly any more fun.

>>3173478
>>3173470
Sounds cool. I'll probably check it out one of these days. I really liked The Old Blood a lot, it's everything good about TNO amplified by 2 and without the bad things about TNO.
I used to really like the one in Q3 engine as a teen, but replaying it recently made me feel it was very bland and one dimensional.

>>3173506
>TNO amplified by 2 and without the bad things about TNO
Wouldn't know, haven't played those yet.

The plot in 09 is kind of boring and uninteresting, but hey, you're fighting to free a European town from occupying Nazis, that's what matters.

Return To Castle Wolfenstein had a way more cool and exciting story, you really felt like you were part of the things that happened, like how you'd enter the X Labs in Norway, fighting Super Soldiers and Lopers, and then later the Super Soldiers would begin appearing more.
I also liked the more basic undead enemies in RTCW, and the creepy catacomb crawling, there isn't anything revolutionary about them, they're just animated mummified corpses, some of them have medieval weapons and armor, a few of them breathe fire. Also better level design.

In 09, there's sort of some Super Soldier-like enemy units (big fuckers in bulky armor, with sci-fi weapons, you have to shoot specific parts of their armor to reveal a weak spot, this is easiest to do with the Mauser from long to medium distance, you don't even need the scope IMO), but for the special enemies, the focus is more on special forces units with super science equipment than actual constructed combat abomination. There's a relatively limited amount of sci-fi monstrosities and supernatrual horrors.
There's the cyborg-ish assassins who flick in and out of the veil, laugh at you, and are generally not as threatening as they seem. (The first time I saw one, I didn't flinch, I used the fire axe I had in my hands to chop off his head in one fell horizontal swing)

You can buy ammunition at the weapons dealers, but I'd recommend against doing this very often, not for any weapon that's even remotely common, the amount of money is limited, and you will find ammunition in the missions.

I think I would probably greatly enjoy some sort of remake of Return To Castle Wolfenstein with the gunplay from Wolf09 (but otherwise no magic power, no regen health, etc)

Best classic FPS boss coming through.

>>3174324
i think D'Sparil is a cool guy, he summons disciples and isn't afraid of anything

the NME from Rise of the Triad is one of the hardest bosses from old school shooters.

Too bad it's also harder than the final boss.

>>3171141
Duke Nukem's E4 had the best boss of the classic FPS games.

Icon of Sin was really cool, too, if that counts as a 'boss'.

I also think Cyber Demon is really cool and iconic. Yeah he's easy with KBM in the wide open space he's used in Doom's E2, but when he's used right (i.e. in smaller spaces) he can be a really tough son of a bitch. Plus I really like his art style and sound design.

Bosses are just so tedious. I already proved I can dodge his projectiles and aim at him, why do I have to do it for ten minutes?

>>3173506
>Quake's bosses are puzzles. It's like they knew regular "shoot at it until it dies in a giant room" bosses were already overdone and sucked.
Wasn't only the first one a puzzle?

>>3174704
Neither of them are puzzles, really. First one is just "step on these floor switches" and the last is "stand here when the spiky ball goes inside the boss."

I do not see a problem with the bosses in Duke Nukem 3d. Pic related was also not a bad boss.

>>3171141
Why do judge /vr/ boss battles by a small portion of games in a small slice of /vr/ history?

DF: Jedi Knight had great boss battles