/vr/ - Retro Games

Bad b8, but I'll bite. The Wii was a good gimmicky hardware that inspired the motion gaming phase, for good or bad, the SNES hardware stomped the shit out of the competition, and the WiiU making use of the tablet (of which is criminally underused) is an example of making actual peripherals viable.

If your argument is only "lol these graphics r gud" then you're not saying much. Most ps1 games looked like utter garbage in comparison to the n64, but the FMVs were beautiful so who gave a shit.

desu supernintendo is more fun than playstation. play some yoshis island

Wii didn't inspire the motion phase lol, they just made it mandatory for developers, xbox and playstation had motion before. Wii is an old gimmick now...

I remember the N64 being one of the first consumer-grade systems with a proper GPU. Even Pcucks had to wait 6 months for the Voodoo and until 2000 for a graphics card that could do all the things the N64 could do like hardware T&L, reflection mapping, etc.

NES

>>3144274
>the SNES hardware stomped the shit out of the competition

>>3144302
Voodoo2 (early 1998) is faster than the N64, and you could SLI two of them for even more speed.

>>3144302
You're an idiot.

>>3144363

Early 1998 though, N64 came out in 1996 before any of the 3dfx cards.

OP: FF VII didn't push anything, it's just a regular JRPG with FMVs. The PS is very bad at both 3D and 2D.
N64 did better 3D and Saturn did better 2D.

>>3144363
The original Voodoo had a rasterizer faster than the N64, so your point about Voodoo 2 is fairly moot.

Of course, it was released 6 months after the N64 so he's not wrong. No consumer 3D accelerator card up until then was faster. The closest would have been Rendition Verite, but that was equal or slower (and also released after the N64 but sooner than Voodoo).

>>3144381
He wasn't wrong though, except for the reflection mapping which Voodoo (and I think the Verite too) could also do. But those cards were released after the N64.

N64's GPU is genuinely the first consumer GPU that supports hardware T&L. PC did have to wait until 1999 for the GeForce 256 to get that one.

And it actually was an inferior form of T&L. Sure, it was shitloads faster than N64's T&L, but it was fixed T&L. N64 had programmable T&L, so you could say it was also the very first iteration of consumer-level vertex shading on a GPU.

N64 also had a color combiner unit, so one could also say it had the very first iteration of (fixed) pixel shading in a consumer level GPU. Voodoo sported one too though.

30 hours of screen time.

How many portable devices can manage that NOW, let alone a quarter century ago?

>>3144506
Any portable with hardware as shit as DMG was and no backlight.

>>3144286
kirby tilt n rumble.
nintendo is always ahead.

>>3144506
>4 batteries
no backlit
I can get 30 with my DS Lite on a full charge on medium-low brightness

>>3144359
The only competition that mattered, the Genesis.

Then again the Genesis was a few years old by the time the Super NES rolled around and still held its own pretty well, I can't and true that.

>>3144274
>>3144520
>nintendo is always ahead

>>3144673
You are THIS mad!

>>3144673
Space Panic didn't having jumping so it doesn't count as a platform game by modern standards.

>>3144687

A lot of the things on that list are wrong or really stretched/nitpicky, but it still amazes me that some nerd out there put effort to make that chart.

Literally, the standard now. Also the entire side-scrolling platformer genre wouldn't exist if it weren't for Mario.

>>3144691
>make stupid ignorant claim

>someone disproves it with evidence

>WOW, WOW, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ACTUALLY TOOK THE EFFORT TO PROVE ME WRONG
>GET A LIFE YOU NERD

Why are nintenyearolds so abusive?

First d-pad on donkey kong game and watch.

>>3144691
There's also the question of quality.
The Microvision, for example, had a microscopic screen, zero ESD protection, and was notorious for screen rot.

>>3144739

First, I'm not the anon you previously replied to.
Second, I'm not implying you actually made that picture, it's pretty old by now, seen it many times for years posted around.

>evidence

A lot of the things there stretched a lot to make a connection, it's not really 100% valid although it makes some good points, a lot of it it's obviously biased against Nintendo.

Oh and I'm not even a "nintenyearold", I always was an idort and actually more on the Sega side of things in my heart.

>>3144673
Nintendo was the first to make all of those things pictured not garbage.

>>3144673
this image is such bullshit

First saving in games.

>>3144515
>DMG

>>3144749
Well, technically Zork, but as far as games with graphics? Yep.

Online gaming avatars.

>>3144742
>you need two of these fuckers for it

No wonder the thing was huge.

>>3144758
Was there really no game before Zork with saving? If not on some mainframe where the admins didn't like games taking up too much space then on a home computer like the Apple II.

>>3144673
>Bandai family trainer
You do know that Nintendo paid Bandai to use this, right? Almost that entire image is someone projecting the idea that Nintendo claimed to have invented all of those things. And, they DID invent the d-pad, which is something you'd know if you've ever actually played an Intellivision to understand how its controller actually works.

>>3144767
Not that I can find. There may be, but Zork is famously considered the first.

>>3144779
Bridge Challenger from 1978. Oldest games I had in my Apple II set and it has a save option.

>>3144757
Thanks for the reply.

>>3144749
Uh, no? Not even close.

>>3144759
This might be true, but how is that a technical achievement?

>>3144767
The PLATO games (1975) had a persistent world. You could save by logging off.

>>3144803
>Uh, no?

Are you fourteen years old?

>>3144818
Uh, no? Not even close.

literally every nintendo platform has in one way or another pushed gaming technology forward, and in most cases much more than the competition

>>3144827
Then for your own sake stop talking like that.

>>3144274
>the SNES hardware stomped the shit out of the competition

>>3144274
I'm so sick and fucking tired of this SNES meme. The Genesis' processor blew the SNES out of the water and it came out two fucking years before the SNES.

Color is okay, but fucking useless in a grand scale because the more colors you have the less variance between colors is noticeable.
>>3144264
The N64 was much more powerful than it's predecessors. Too bad it came out a year later and had a whole extra development cycle.

>>3144832
Uh, no?

>>3144845
Like... Dude?

>>3144841
The Atari Panther was going to launch when the SNES launched and it was going to destroy that 2.6 megahertz piece of junk.

From a technical standpoint, by 1991, the Panther was going to have somewhere near a 16 megahertz processor.

That's what was possible in 1991, and Nintendo had a fucking processor twice as slow as something launched in 1989.

>>3144845
Hey, I can't force you, but it really is for your own good. Take it as advice.

>>3144851
Why did Atari decide to launch that piece of shit Jaguar in 1993 if it could've dominated the Super Nintendo in 1991?

>>3144853
That's one of the many mysteries of Atari in the early 90s. We would have a very different console war in our memories if the Panther had launched in 1991, because it would've made the Genesis and Super Nintendo look stupidly outdated, and rightfully so. Genesis did all it could with 1989 tech, admirable, but outdated in 1991, and SNES purposely used tech from the mid 80s.

NES CPU was 1.7 megahertz, for reference. The Super NES was like 2.6.

Inexcusable.

>>3144506
It had 4 fucking batteries and the cheapest, weakest portable technology you could possibly use and still have a somewhat playable game.

It didn't last 30 hours of actual play, either.

>>3144867
This. I loved me my Game Boy as a kid, but never did I get 30 hours out of a set of batteries. 8 hours was more like it.

>>3144858
That difference in hertz is not applicable, nor is the difference between the gen and snes.
If you knew anything about computer technology you would understand this.
Computer power follows orders of magnitude.

Did they have to?

>>3144867
>>3144871

The confusion's probably stemming from 2016 batteries vs 1990.

not really, as a design decision. and i'm willing to bet that there are far more currently working n64 games than ps1.

>>3144264
NO console EVER "pushed technology forward" unless you count controllers which Nintendo has done nearly all innovation for.

>>3144892
sega and microsoft have done more for controllers than nintendo ever has, the only good controller nintendo ever had was for the snes

>>3144909
>He says as gaming has been following nintendos lead for decades

>>3144909
>sega
>dropping six button layout
No.

>>3144851
It would definitely be technically superior, but it's hard to imagine how well it would fare with the public. It's an interesting thought.
Considering the basically non-existant support given to foreign devs by Sega and Nintendo, if a powerful game console developed in the US had gained traction we might have seen the western gaming scene rise up much earlier than it did due to developers getting some real support from Atari.
I'm not sure if I would've preferred that timeline though.

>>3144928
>getting some real support from Atari.
I'm not sure, it's still bungling old Atari we're talking about.

>>3144673
>The outfoxes similar to smash xDDDD

>>3144673
almost 95% of this image are lies but it makes me lol

>>3144264
The 3DS was the first glasses-free 3D tech, and the Virtual Boy was an even earlier attempt at in-home 3D / VR gaming. However what Nintendo excels at is taking existing technology and re-purposing it in a novel, albeit gimmicky manner.

>>3144662
The Genesis was not only older hardware, but could perform Mode 7 style graphics without any extra hardware on cart... Why do Nintendofags keep trying to state this shit? The only thing the SNES could legitimately do better was number of colors on screen. The SNES even needed special hardware on cart to do shit like Yoshi's Island.

>>3144746
This, so at the very least they made it popular.

>>3144909
Nintendo set nearly every standard for controllers since the NES. Only innovation from another company that stuck was dual sticks on the dual shock.

>>3145024
>The 3DS was the first glasses-free 3D tech
>trolling this hard
>or being a delusional nintenfag
i was playing stereoscopic 3d games on my samsung SCH-W960 long before it was cool

>>3144928
>we might have seen the western gaming scene rise up much earlier than it did

NES had the same household attachment rate as PS2 and the arcades were making BILLIONS in the early 80s. The fuck are you even talking about?

>>3145247
Bad wording on my part.
I meant western-made games might have risen in quality and popularity, and because of that, they probably would have overshadowed their Japanese contemporaries much quicker.

>>3144880
Are you absolutely fucking retarded?

More megahertz means a much faster clock speed, which means faster rendering, larger sprites, more sprites on screen without slowdown and all in a higher resolution.

I've never seen someone this fucking clueless about what they're talking about and actually attempting a response at all.

>>3144917
>He says as gaming has been following nintendos lead for decades

Except it followed the Atari 2600, not the Nintendo?

>>3145247
It's pretty obvious what he's talking about. The NES was a japanese machine, not a a western machine.
>>3145268
You didn't have bad wording, that guy responding to you is a moron.

>>3144264
They were at the vanguard of everything before the Playstation. They stumbled a bit on the N64, played it safe with the GC, and now they've fallen into gimmicks.

>>3144880
...
thats not accurate
to some extent you can have specialized circuits that perform the same tasks better than something else, but we're comparing two consoles that perform pretty much the same functions
the cpu frequency is literally how often you can perform operations on the unit
some technologies are better than others, sure and cpus have better or worse instruction sets but thats raw power... when its literally like 3x the clock speed... theres really no denying that its going to perform way better
Nintendo had 6 years to increase the cpu frequency by 52%
when moores law doubles the computing power every two years

>>3144909
Yo what the fuck. Sony has had the same controller since the ps1. Who the fucks side are you on

>>3145027
mode 7 was hardware built-in on the SNES (didn't add extra burden on the already-weak CPU)
Genesis didn't have that hardware, but it didn't matter since the 68k was powerful enough to handle mode 7 in software mode just fine.
Sega later added hardware-based mode 7 with the release of the Sega CD.

>>3144858
Actually this guy isn't wrong. Many people engage in the megahertz myth when talking about the SNES.

That being said, in my discussions with people who know assembly for old CPUs, they mention that, on average, the SNES CPU has 50% better IPC.

This means that at the peak speed of 3.58mhz, the SNES CPU is 75% as fast as the Genesis
CPU. The problem is that the SNES CPU works on a variable speed depending on what it is accessing. When reading RAM for instance, the speed drops to something like 2.5mhz, which is way slower at this point than Genesis, better IPC or not.

>>3145817
people also forget that the NES was 8-bit, and the SNES was 16-bit. In fact, the launch of the Genesis was so successful partly in part due to the fact that the Genesis was a 16-bit console compared to the NES' 8-bit CPU.

>>3145817
>>3145826
>megahertz myth

lol

>>3145817
7 MHz or whatever is still going to be way faster than that 2 MHz cpu

>>3145938
Well, that was my point when it comes to Genesis vs SNES if you read the last sentence of my post.

But it's not always true per se. A Skylake CPU at 2 MHz is going to be faster than a Pentium 4 at 7 MHz.

>>3144506
> Connect 2 consoles to exchange Pokemon data
> Connect up to 4 consoles to play multiplay games
> Support interactive camera that lets you print pics and use your face on some games

The old brick was badass.

>>3144834
Number of consoles sold worldwide:

Sega:Genesis/MegaDrive 30.75 million
Snes/Super Famicom: 49.10 million

That's almost 20 million more.

>>3145945
I don't think a P4 could handle 7GHz.

>>3146118
Nobody's talking about sales. We're talking about technology.

>>3144264
No. Nintendo's hardware design philosophy has never focused on innovation, and that is completely fine. The Withered Technology approach is focused on providing an affordable product utilizing well-understood, well-documented hardware that makes development easier. In several cases, namely the NES, SNES, and Game Boy, this worked spectacularly well for them. Its returns have definitely diminished, however, with the market's demand for bigger games with better graphics.

Any attempt to suggest that retro Nintendo hardware is trash simply because it didn't sit on the bleeding edge is some truly half-assed trolling.

>>3145452
Nice Paint program image anon.

>>3144724
That's fucking retarded. Why do Nintendrones think Mario was so special and unique? It was in no way revolutionary and Wonder Boy is far superior.

>>3146118
Genesis sold 40 million actually. It says 30 million on wiki due to butthurt Nintenyearolds not wanting to give Sega an inch.

Also Genesis outsold the SNES in the Western world. Like a full third of SNES sales were in Japan alone while Mega Drive sold Xbox-tier there.

>>3146179
How did the Mega Drive do solely in America?

>>3146180
There is conflicting analysis about who sold more in USA. Nintendo's research actually claimed the Genesis narrowly outsold the SNES there, while Morgan Wedbush claims the SNES narrowly outsold the Genesis there. Truth be told, it was probably a tie with Sega having stronger sales in the early 90s and Nintendo having stronger sales in the mid 90s.

SNES got soundly beaten by Mega Drive in Europe, Australia, etc

>>3146118
By that logic Wii hardware stomped Xbox 360 and PS3.

>>3146187
Yes, but neither the Snes nor Mega Drive sold particularly well in Europe and Australia.

>>3146196
No, not individually, but across a lot of countries it does add up for an advantage to Sega.

>>3146207
Yes, it was an advantage. The Mega Drive was far more popular, but that is relative.

>>3144264
>consoles
>pushing tech forward ever

u gotta be kitten me

Honestly though, Wii was rather innovative for a homeroom console, but same tech was used before in arcade cabinets, so nah not really.

>>3146226
You have to be pretty underage to think consoles never pushed technology forward. We already had the example of the N64's GPU, being the first consumer level GPU with hardware T&L. It's literally the grandfather of modern GPUs. Voodoo was faster but can't even claim that.

>>3146245
That's only because PC's at the time performed all T&L on their CPU just fine and it did not need to be accelerated, so not really a push of tech.

>>3146256
Just fine? There's a reason people had to throw buckets of money to upgrade their CPU to get better performance back then. Compared to a proper SIMD vector unit, CPUs are inefficient as fuck at T&L. It's why it was eventually brought over to PC and is one of the most important GPU features now.

N64's GPU per clock could absolutely crush the Pentium's of that time in T&L. It's why it can do the incredible multilayered colored lighting in Conker while decoding MP3 at the same time. No way even the best Pentium Pro of 1996 could do that.

>>3146264
Conker is 2001 game, that pushed the outdated N64 hardware to the very limits due to amazing coding and optimisation - if same efforts would've been put into a PC version of the game, it wouldve been playable on 96-97' PCs as well.However, at the time of Conkers release PC already had Quake 3.

>>3146283
Well we are talking about pushing hardware are we not? In 2001 the N64 was still using 1996 era hardware.

The advantage of PC over N64 in 1996/1997 would be its better distribution of computing. PC would have CPUs with much better GP (general performance) as the N64's CPU performs more akin to an overclocked 486 than a Pentium. Also RAM is better, and a Voodoo is a faster rasterizer. Also the PC's sound card would handle some of the sound load.

But nothing there provides a lot of specialized power for T&L which is want you need if you want to do a lot of crazy lighting stuff. Conker goes a little further than Quake 2 there.

Of course eventually CPUs were clocked fast enough to be better at T&L with sure brute force. But the fact that a cheap console part could put up a good fight is surely what alerted Nvidia to the benefits of putting T&L on their GPUs.

>>3146290
And the advantage of a compact disc drive combined with hard disk drive so you had large games without too much loading.

>people still debating this settled argument
Even Sega admitted the SNES hardware was stronger.

"Sega does what Nintendon't" was from when the Megadrive was competing against the NES.
Once the SNES came out Sega was on the ropes, even with Socic, hence their attempting the Sega CD and 32X to muscle out Nintendo.
Give it up. Stop. Neither company pushed limits in the 90s. PCs have always been on the front lines there.
Actual proper computers are needed, after all, to design, test, and code gaming consoles and to design, test, and finalize every commercial game.

Both of them had tiny-dick processors and memory that generated less heat than the god damn power circuits inside of them or the AC adapter boxes they came with. The debate was settled in the 90s. Nintendo kicked Sega's shit in(hardware and sales), then Sony kicked Nintendo's AND Sega's shit in.

>>3146353
>Even Sega admitted the SNES hardware was stronger.
This never happened
>Once the SNES came out Sega was on the ropes
Haha, no. The SNES wasn't selling very well outside of Japan until like 94 or so.
> hence their attempting the Sega CD and 32X to muscle out Nintendo.
Nope. Sega CD was created as a response to TG16 CD-ROM. This is very well known. 32X was created as a cheaper alternative to a the new crop of 32-bit consoles that were emerging like 3DO and Jaguar.

>PCs have always been on the front lines there.
Underage much? PCs had a lot of trouble with some things at first, like 3D acceleration because the early addon cards were godawful.
>Actual proper computers are needed, after all, to design, test, and code gaming consoles and to design, test, and finalize every commercial game.
Game consoles are computers too. If you weren't so young you would know that "PC" is not synonymous with computers. Many older games were not developed on PCs but non-IBM compatible alternatives.

>>3146389
The debate was over long ago. Drop it, Chris-chan.

>>3146389
>Underage much? PCs had a lot of trouble with some things at first, like 3D acceleration because the early addon cards were godawful
I can't hear you over the sound of Quake running better on my P133 than it ever could on PS or N64.

>>3146443
Cool son. By the time Quake came out the PS1 was already on the market for 18 months.

PC sure was leading the way in 3D technology!

>>3146443
>I can't hear you over the sound of Quake running better on my P133 than it ever could on PS or N64.

32fps at lower than console resolution and no sound

so...this...is the power...of...PC

>>3144274
>the SNES hardware stomped the shit out of the competition
The Neo Geo was far ahead of the SNES.

>>3144286
>playstation had motion before.
What, you mean Eye Toy? Fuck that pigshit.

>>3145246
Dude, look at that frame rate though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSOf-BC-F0g

>>3144673
The things on that list that aren't just outright bullshit were hilariously badly done before Nintendo did them.

You might as well stop being butthurt and just learn to accept the truth.

>>3144724
>the entire side-scrolling platformer genre wouldn't exist if it weren't for Mario
Pac-Land preceded the first scrolling Mario game. As for platformers as a whole, sure, Donkey Kong was a pioneer.

>>3145306
If you weren't tech illiterate you would know that comparing two CPUs of different architectures by their clock speed is immensely retarded. There 's a thing called IPC(Instructions per clock) which basically is a measure of how much instructions a CPU can fit into one clock cycle. There's a reason why different CPUs don't perform the same as well while running at the same clock speeds.

>>3146120
>7mhz
>MEGAhertz

>>3145009
That's the most valid thing in the entire chart. I feel like Smash could learn a couple things wrt level design from Outfoxies.

>>3146209
Popularity isn't fucking relative. It's based on numbers.

What the fuck? Get over the fact the SNES lost.

>>3146353
The SNES hardware wasn't stronger, so whoever admitted that was full of shit. Can you provide a source?

The Genesis was always selling well, even through the SNES' run, which is saying something of 2 year old hardware that had already been on the market.

I like both systems but you fucking Nintendofaggots make it hard to respect the SNES.

>>3147230
Yeah, and guess what? Even with your fucking IPC the Genesis hardware was faster, and it was 2 years old by the SNES launch.

>>3144746
>Gamecube had the first non-garbage dual analogs
>Super Mario Bros. is a better sidescroller than Ghosts'n Goblins
>Virtual Boy is not garbage

>>3147268
>the Genesis hardware was faster
It was the weaker system. Everyone knows it. Stop trying to debate against facts here.

>>3147280
>It was the weaker system. Everyone knows it. Stop trying to debate against facts here

Dude, it was not. The processor was still faster than the SNES. This is hilarious you're defending a flat out lie right now.

And more colors doesn't mean shit. That's a variable process, and the more colors you get, the more it becomes subjective because some people can't tell difference between one shade of light blue and another anyway. And it all depends on the TV display.

>>3147268
>moving goalposts
I wasn't that guy you originally replied to, you tech illiterate autist. I'm not comparing the SNES with the Genesis, I'm pointing out your retarded way of comparing two CPUs.

>>3144858 Was also comparing originally comparing the NES's CPU with the SNES' one by their clock speeds at well.

>>3147280
>It was the weaker system.
>Everyone knows it.

>>3147312
I don't give a fuck about IPC if the processor is STILL faster.

Your obnoxious use of "BUT THE IPC" doesn't help any if the fucking processor is STILL SLOWER.

Seriously, no one gives a fuck about how well the IPC works in specific instances on the SNES. As the one guy said, it came up to 75% of the Genesis' processing power in a small number of cases, in most, it failed miserably to compare, even with "IPC."

>>3147312
Not that anon but IPC is irrelevant if even with it's best use of instructions per clock it only manages to reach 75% of the Genesis speed. 75% of a processor is still incredibly slow. So pointing out IPC in this case doesn't matter, it would only be significant if because of IPC it managed to outperform or perform equally.

So bringing up IPC is literally a throwaway point.

>>3146175
It's like iPhones invented smartphones.

>>3147280
>It was the weaker system. Everyone knows it. Stop trying to debate against facts here.

This is really bad bait.

>>3147330
Not to mention in 1991 the SNES could have had a 15 or 20 megahertz processor, and couldn't even take on a processor of a 1989 machine, even with it's IPC.

>>3147295
>Dude, it was not.
Yes, it was.
>The processor was still faster than the SNES.
Both were slow as snail shit and just about equal so it doesn't matter. And the games prove it. Far more high quality and technical games on SNES WITHOUT enhancement chips than on Gen.
Just stop. It doesn't fucking matter anymore. It's not 1992.
>And more colors doesn't mean shit.
Talk about "hilarious you're defending a flat out lie", here you are trying to pass off the idea that higher color quality isn't meaningful.

>And it all depends on the TV display.
And see, this is why you're a fucknut. Because on the cheap TVs we all played on as kids, the graphical differences between the two weren't noticeable, especially to our dumbass 5-10yo selves.
STOP. The debate was finished before some of the retro systems here on /vr/ were even released.

>>3147321
>>3147315
My Sansa Clip Zip has a higher processor speed than the Genesis, so OBVIOSLY I should be able to play Thunder Force on the little bastard, right?
Speed is not the end-all be-all. My 3.5ghz Haswell smokes my 4.2ghs i7 920. Both have four cores, 8 threads, and yet the newer one destroys and overclocked older one.
If you know dick about computing, KEEP YOUR SHIT QUIET. sage for console war faggots.

>>3147321
>I wasn't that guy you originally replied to, you tech illiterate autist. I'm not comparing the SNES with the Genesis, I'm pointing out your retarded way of comparing two CPUs.

Learn to read. The genesis isn't more powerful only due to the clock speed. They wouldn't perform the same at the same clock speeds, would they? BTW I was never comparing two consoles with each other. I just pointed out that clock speed isn't solely a valid way of comparison.

>>3147248
And even that's wrong, because https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugoi_Hebereke
was the first arena fighting game.

>>3147354
>Both were slow as snail shit and just about equal so it doesn't matter.

If just about equal means in a few specific instances the SNES managed to be 75% as fast, okay. Last time I checked, 75% is not "just about equal" 3/4ths is a pretty stark contrast.

>Far more high quality and technical games on SNES WITHOUT enhancement chips than on Gen.

You're talking about a SYSTEM THAT'S FROM 1989 VS A SYSTEM FROM 1991. And how much is "Far more?" The fact there are technically impressive Genesis games at all shows a great deal of the systems power next to the SNES'.


>Talk about "hilarious you're defending a flat out lie", here you are trying to pass off the idea that higher color quality isn't meaningful.

In a literal one to one comparison, wherein the developers were stretching the limits of both consoles to produce the same EXACT image, here is what we have.

If you'll notice, one is running on many years old hardware from the end of the 80s, and one is running on brand new hardware from the beginning of the 90s. Any other comparisons, where the developers were not flat out translating images one to one, are not worthwile comparisons. All of this was highly dependent on who can see more colors, what the TV displayed, contrast, gamma, everything. Even age of the cathode ray tubes you had, so this difference was less pronounced not on an emulator. So talking about purity, here it is.

You continuously spasm about the argument about processors because you are well aware how much weaker the SNES processor is, and can't handle it. You keep bringing up IPC but even with IPC, the SNES processor is still inferior.

>>3147364
You're talking about subjective things, like the amount of colors. I'm talking about objective qualities, like,
-SLOWDOWN
-NUMBER OF SPRITES
-SIZE OF SPRITES
-HOW MANY SPRITES WITH HIGH RESOLUTION CAN BE ON A SCREEN AT A TIME

Genesis wins all of these, regardless of how colorful it was.

>>3147385
Does the Genesis even experience slowdown on any games? I don't recall any honestly

It's funny how the SNES fags always sperg and look the most autistic when these discussions come up

>>3147354
>on SNES WITHOUT enhancement chips

SNES took an FX chip to do this.

Genesis didn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZZkv6vgiLw

SNES took an FX chip to do this
Genesis didn't

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfe2Ze_yDk4

Also, an overclocked Genesis is now playing Star Fox, no FX chip, nothing else. The guys fine tuning it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuYFmIEtLLk

>>3147397
the SNES fags are absolutely abhorrent. Saying 75% is equal is the worst offense I think I've seen from them lately. And I love both the systems, too. But seeing them sperg like this to defend bullshit is hilarious.

Genesis handled this, no additional chips required, just because of the processor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qofonsN3Nwc

But my colors!

>>3145310
That was before Nintendo and its collection of masters rose from obscurity and took control of the philosophy of "Video Games" ever since.

They did dual screen gaming before people had multiple screens in their homes in the form of TVs, Phones, tablets, monitors, etc. Previously multiple monitors increased workspace in a professional setting.

It's Nintendo that had the vision. It's been Nintendo for Decades.

RIP to those we've lost. We will not fail to carry on your legacy

>>3147419
NO NO, ALL WRONG. THE SNES HAD MUCH MORE IMPRESSIVE GAMES WITHOUT ENHANCEMENT CHIPS.

LIKE...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sXgFmZ-tM0

>>3147425
That's a Genesis game, mate, no FX chip required.

Shameless rip off of Star Fox, though. This should have launched with a smashed FX chip.

>>3147397
It is demonstrable that the SNES could actually display 2-3 times the colors on screen, while the Genesis could display 2-3 times the sprites and independently scrolling 2D planes.

The SNES also could scale and rotate one 256 color plane, which could be made to look like large objects such as Bowser in Super Mario World or the Bomber in the first level of Contra IV.

Alternately, games on the Genesis typically ran with less slowdown, featured faster scrolling levels, "tilted" sprites and backgrounds, and featured more custom special effects like scaling backgrounds and fully polygonal gameplay without any cart loaded processors. The Genesis' software effects are best seen in Contra Hard Corp, Castlevania Bloodlines, Batman and Robin, Ranger X, Sonic 3D Blast's bonus levels, LHX Attack Chopper, and Red Zone, for starters.

And it doesn't matter how long SNES people scream. It won't change hardware.

>>3146118

Sega sold more prior to switching over to saturn.

>>3146118
That wiki article is edited down to 30 from 40 all the time. Check the editing history.

>>3147397
>>3147405
...I'm not an SNES fag.
The fact you're assuming shit like this and trying to keep up a stupid console war that ended 20 years ago shows you to be poor trolls or butthurt fanboys.

I love Genesis games. If I want great arcade gameplay without having to deal with MAME's bullshit, Genny is the place to go.

But it was factually weaker than its competition, just like the SNES was way weaker than the NG. It was way weaker than the Jaguar too, as was the Genny of course, but I can't think of a single Jag game that looks and plays better than much of the Genesis library. Power means fuck all really, and the fact that you're actually resorting to MUH HERTZ shows you to be the same kinda fucktards who thought MUH BITS were a big deal while Sony was destroying the 64's ass with half the bits and 1/3rd the HERTZ.

Fuck you. You give Genesis fans a terrible name they don't deserve.

>>3147463
Just stop. The SNES was not capable of shit the Genesis was. No one cares about your colors and mode 7.

You're the fucking idiot giving SNES fans a terrible name.

>>3147463
>But it was factually weaker than its competition,

It was factually not.

>>3147446
>Alternately, games on the Genesis typically ran with less slowdown, featured faster scrolling levels, "tilted" sprites and backgrounds, and featured more custom special effects like scaling backgrounds and fully polygonal gameplay without any cart loaded processors.
>Alternately, games on the Genesis typically ran with less slowdown, featured faster scrolling levels, "tilted" sprites and backgrounds, and featured more custom special effects like scaling backgrounds and fully polygonal gameplay without any cart loaded processors.
>Alternately, games on the Genesis typically ran with less slowdown, featured faster scrolling levels, "tilted" sprites and backgrounds, and featured more custom special effects like scaling backgrounds and fully polygonal gameplay without any cart loaded processors.

In this case, MUH HERTZ are the only reason it was capable of fully polygonal gameplay without any CART FUCKING LOADED PROCESSORS YOU DAFT IDIOT

>>3147463
>I can't think of a single Jag game that looks and plays better than much of the Genesis library

You're so fucking stupid you have no idea what you're talking about.

Firstly, Tom and Jerry, the coprocessors on the Atari Jaguar, were rarely used. This is because they were complicated and no one knew how to use them. So they opted instead to put all their programs on the MOTOROLA 68,000 that was also on the Jaguar motherboard.

For those who do not know, THE MOTOROLA 68,000 WAS THE GENESIS PROCESSOR.

Finally, Meghertz, or the high speed of the Genesis processor, was the only reason it was capable of 3D without additional processors like the Super Nintendo.

You are incredibly misinformed and uneducated and really shouldn't even be talking in this discussion.

Here is a Jaguar game that properly used Tom and Jerry, by the way.

>>3147463
>Jaguar games looked like Genesis games, this is because Megahertz doesn't mean anything!

Oh for fucks sake, here we go again. Just stop posting.

> Design specs for the console allude to the GPU or DSP being capable of acting as a CPU, leaving the Motorola 68000 to read controller inputs. In practice, however, many developers used the Motorola 68000 to drive gameplay logic.

It's like I'm really 8 years old again.

>>3147483
The level of discourse and understanding of what a faster processor does for games is about 8 year old level.

It's very commonly understood what a faster processor did for the Genesis. The only people who could possibly argue this are SNES fags sperging out and looking autistic. The guy posting a picture of someone flicking people off and talking about the Jaguar is the most autistic. I've rarely seen that much bullshit and misinformation in one post but from a SNES fag.

And I love the trying to pretend like he isn't a SNES fag too.

>>3147489
They always do the
>I love both systems, but the Genesis wasn't better!
Like that will make their bullshit any more palatable.
>It's okay, I like the Genesis, I'm like you, we just need to understand it wasn't as powerful!

>>3147479
>was the only reason it was capable of 3D
"capable"
Just like Star Fox is "3D"

I mean, technically you're right, it's just....
>>3147482
>Jaguar games looked like Genesis games
I didn't say that. I said the Jag games look WORSE than genesis games you illiterate console-war faggot.

>>3147486
>The level of discourse and understanding of what a faster processor does for games
It does less than you think it does. DKC alone proves the SNES could pull off Genesis speed and sprites at a higher color volume. Sega tried to copy that level of gaming with Vectorman, but proved far inferior.

You guys are all missing the point

"Power" in relation to how our hardware is built to communicate data simply isn't necessary - beyond a certain point - to craft the ILLUSIONS necessary for bringing images to life in animation. Enacting physical control over the animations isn't perfect yet. We're not done innovating, yet. But "More power" in this context stopped being a difference maker over time. Look at the differences in early generations compared to PS3/PS4 for proof.

Nintendo has always understood this, which is why they use cheap hardware for their goals, but always combine it in creative ways to advance gaming.

Dual screens, battery saves in carts, link cable in gameboy which birthed pokemon concept and gba/gamecube co-play, rumble lack, the wiimote (whuch is much more than a light gun) and more multi-screen ideas like the Wii-U.

>>3147567
Thanks for enlightening us. I'm going to shitpost my way to Walmart and get some Amiibo. Nintendo is so revolutionary! DAE SNES???

>>3144741
Is that true? If so, that's an important one.

>>3144759
>going online with the Wii
>no online Mii functionality

>>3147604
You sound sarcastic, but yes. That's pretty cool. Toy integration is another one I forgot.

I bet that's going to be sweet in the future. And all from humble R.O.B. and amiibo roots.

Every time I think of Nintendo I am impressed by more of their genius I discover.

>>3147254
What? I'm not defending the Snes. Learn to read. The Mega Drive was more popular, but it only sold well relatively to the home console market in Europe and Australia. It didn't sell spectacularly in terms of pure numbers.

>>3146226
Some consoles have tried to push new tech, but they're usually failures because they end up costing an enormous amount, are difficult to develop for, or the technology turns out to be a gimmick. Sometimes, however, they just have the bad luck of going up against competitors with much bigger marketing budgets and better distribution.

See: the Fairchild Channel F, the TurboGrafx-CD, or the 3DO (which attempted to be a media center as XBoxes and PlayStations are used around the world today).

Quite honestly the genny didn't do half bad, in fact it sold somewhere between 50 something million units. It was the best thing it happened to gamers because it dethroned fucking Nintendo for a hot minute. Remember competition promotes excellence.

>>3144673
This image isn't "bullshit" as anon have said. But it's also humorously not even an indictment on Nintendo as it's presented.

The very fact Nintendo has all that is emblematic of their philosophy and vision which is unmatched and why I have nothing but profound spiritual reverence for them.

The very worst point that image makes is "Nintendo saw the beauty in an idea and knew to keep the vision alive"

>>3146443
>I can't hear you over the sound of Quake running better on my P133 than it ever could on PS or N64.

The N64 version hands-down looks better than the PC version does with its software rendering, but the N64 ver also has a shit-ton of detail and level geometry removed, even including entire levels that were too complex, so the framerate doesn't drag. Not really directly comparable.

As for the Playstation version of quake, I'd certainly hope the PC version looked better than a port that didn't even exist.

>>3146446
And yet Sony was still so butt hurt that Quake couldn't run on their console.

>>3147750
Don't even bother, there's too many people in this thread who can't distinguish the difference between pushing a technology to better heights and inventing said technology.

The original nes, anything else was either a gimmick or just more powerful than their current competition. Though they've had plenty of opportunities.

>>3147672
>Toy integration is another one I forgot
What would you want from toy company.
That's kind of irony how Atari and Sega, companies initially built around arcades, left home console market.

>>3147798
The n64 quake was a notoriously bad port with quote literally 1/4 of the animations removed and more than half of the level geometry and lighting. What are you smoking?

>>3147978
N64 Quake was just a garbage port (although not the worst kind out there). People should better look at the porting of Quake 2. Unfortunately it also has the choppy animations, but the full-range RGB lighting system from the PC version is completely intact.

Actually the best thing about it is that when you use the Expansion Pak, the game outputs in 24bit color mode, which is something that not many PC 3D cards could do at the time.

Can your shitty PC run Scud Racer? fucking home gaming plebs.

>>3146443
Can your shitty PC run Scud Racer? fucking home gaming plebs and their toasters.

>>3148429
Scud Race never came out on PC so no.
Also arcade cabs are not consoles.

>>3146163
>with the market's demand for bigger games with better graphics.
Is that really the market's demand? MS and Sony were completely convinced they needed to have a hardware race with XBox 360 and PS3. Both units sold at loss, both units featuring excessively powerful hardware, at least for consoles, both battling hard on visuals. Enter Nintendo, with an overclocked GameCube and a waggle stick, playing "small" games, stuff that's good for the coffee break, or the party group, completely devastating Sony and MS sales. It's really easy to say "the market demands", but in reality all too often it boils down to what the marketing department thinks the public wants, which is not necessarily the same thing.

And I'd dare say it was the exact same thing with Sony PSP and NDS. The market demands better visuals on portables? The "worse" looking system completely crushed the powerhouse. Apparently other things mattered more to that "market".

In fact, Nintendo usually tends to struggle when they try to go the advanced hardware route. Wii U is a forgettable update, because it's largely in power, and little else. I still see no reason to give a damn about the 3DS, while the NDS is one of my favorite systems, and even the good old N64 suffered from the bleeding edge. It has the vastly superior GPU, but got outperformed on the "market" by a CD player that can draw wobbly polygons

all this talking about snes vs genesis talking about fucking starfox, that run at 9 fps

also the damn game has an external chip.
just like virtua racing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7Ow3w2DIRc

>>3149253

Yeah nintendo bet on the same low powered horse this gen and 3ds is dying because iphone games look better to kids and wiiu making no sense to hardcore players because it's basically last gen hardware and nobody plays games collectively or in a party setting any more.

>>3149538
The real reason Wii U is dying is because it's Gamecube 2.0 with the same sort of self-indulgent navel-gazing games that only appeal to hardcore Nintendo fans and nobody else.

Except it's even worse than it ever was on Gamecube.

>>3149542
This.
What Nintendo doesn't seem to get is that, more than innovation in peripherals, gamers value innovation when it comes to actual games and third party support.
Splatoon aside, Nintendo hasn't been doing much for the past decade or so other than playing upon variations of the same themes and they've never quite recovered since the 16-Bit days when it comes to luring other publishers and developers to their table.
That said, they still got their handhelds but if they don't get things right with the NX, I don't see why they'd even want to stay in the console market.

>>3149580

Nintendo are still innovating in 4player family room gaming

The problem is that the family room is dead now that everyone has their own gadget. The wiiU is meant as a parent and their kids playing games together that the larent played before.

But holy shit nintendo have not looked at the kids these days. These spoiled adhd shit eaters want ipads with minecraft and everything in the app store. As young as 4 they already look at obnoxious autistist lets plays on youtube app.

Nintendo is chasing a dead dream. It's really sad because a lot of the people in the company have children of their own, who don't give two shits about nintendo.

>>3147672
>toy integration
Top kek, Nintendo managed to rope you in with more superfluous bullshit.

>>3149761
All video games are toys

It says a lot about how pathetic you are as a person when you desperately need to draw arbitrary divisions between two types of toys to make yourself feel like a big boy

>>3149824
plz anon, you know damn well no one thinks of video games in the same manner as they do a physical toy like an action figure.

>>3150101
>plz anon, you know damn well no one thinks of video games in the same manner as they do a physical toy like an action figure
>what are games-to-life toys

>>3149824
>talking about arbitrary on a board that ignores retro means 15 years and older

>>3144746
This. The only relevant shout-outs go to Defender, Tomb Raider and Playstation

>>3144302
>Even Pcucks had to wait 6 months for the Voodoo and until 2000 for a graphics card that could do all the things the N64 could do like hardware T&L, reflection mapping, etc.

PC was an office machine at the time, and the N64 was a dumbed down joke of a low-cut version of the SGI workstations, which had all of that way way way earlier.

>>3146187
I recall most sources claiming 60% market share for Sega in around 93-94, which would leave Nintendo with 30-something (allowing for a few percentage for TG16, 3do, Atari, whatever).

>>3149717
Not to mention that Nintendo refuses to keep up with the times and puts up copyright strikes any time people record Nintendo games and upload it on Youtube. So the obnoxious faggot lets players cant even play those games.

>>3150373
Atari had like no market share in 93-94.

>>3150363
SGI were the world leaders in 3D hardware at the time, and they sure as hell weren't going to equip PCs with their technology and eat into their workstation profits.

I mean it happened eventually, but somebody else had to do it, and SGI stalled as long as possible.

At least it warned others about advancing on virtual boy/headset gear when the tech wasn't quite ready yet.

>>3150816
Just wait, there will be some YouTube faggot who starts saying the VB was ahead of its time so the Nintendo circlejerk remains strong.

>>3146389
>>3146446
Consoles may have been ahead of PCs for a very short while after their release, but they also had the advantage of being developed by a single company.

>>3150932
And also: the PS1 may have been on the market for 18 months already, but Quake had been in development for longer than that.

>>3150932
There were computers developed by a single company like the Mac or PC-98.

>>3144841
>The Genesis' processor blew the SNES out of the water
And yet the SNES has far better looking and sounding games.

>>3151226
>SNES has far better looking

>slowdown is better looking

>>3144264
They made analogue sticks and rumble controllers popular.
Made 4 ports, couch multiplayer, and gyro-controller popular.

Or are we just talking graphics?
Super nes hat mode 7 or something

Their controllers have innovated a lot.

>>3151229
The genesis had bad slowdown too. What's your point?

>>3151226
>And yet the SNES has far better looking games.

Sure it does - on screenshots. But in action, the Genesis games can have waaay more stuff going on screen.

Of course it is not a problem if you want to play an RPG that involves mostly still pictures and four 8x8 sprites with 2 frames of animation each.

>>3154909
What games? I don't recall any slowdown on the Genesis

>>3144742
>Dedicated balls and paddle buttons

>>3154929
Son, even Sonic had slowdown when too many sprites were on the screen. Go back and play some Genesis on the original hardware.

>>3154943
You'd have to get into those kinds of situations on purpose though.

>>3144841
>The Genesis' processor blew the SNES out of the water
>>3151229
>slowdown

The Snes main procesor was shit, but it had multiple coprocessors that were there to manage most of the work.
This explains why early games like super R-Type had huge slowdown, third-party developpers didn't know well how to program games on the system yet and put too much strain on the main chip.

>>3154943
Uh
No it didn't.

>>3154943
>go back and play some genesis on the original hardware
Gee, funny you should say that, because I was just fucking playing all the Sonics and didn't see slowdown one time in any normal gameplay situation.

>>3156285
SNES didn't have any built in co processors. It had a PPU / GPU with a matrix scale / rotate mode for backgrounds and that's literally all the help the CPU got for maths. The sound core has a DSP that handles the timing.

Meanwhile Genesis had a fully fledged second CPU, the Z80 to help out. Sure it wasn't super powerful, but it was fully programmable like the main CPU, not a dumb fixed DSP.

>>3154943
tsk tsk.. telling lies on the internet again?