/vr/ - Retro Games

>Combat
Blood > SW > D3d

>Levels
SW > D3d > Blood

>Enemies
SW > D3d > Blood

>Charm / Character
Blood > SW > D3d

>Weapons
SW > Blood > D3d (Blood wins because of the shotgun
>Overall gameplay experience
Blood > SW > D3d

It tallies that Shadow Warrior beats Blood and Blood beats Shadow Warrior

Tbh the other games got nothing on Blood in terms of the combat experience. The one thing Blood does better than any other retro (sprite based) game is the shit that goes on in combat. Unloading both barrels at close range into a zombie while crouching down blasts it away. You can throw a dynamite stick into a room full of enemies then retreat and watch as corpses and bloody chunks get blasted out the doorway. Alt firing the flare gun into a pack of zombies and watching them flail around as they burn and explode into charred bloody chunks is so satisfying. Duke 3d and shadow warrior can't touch it

Blood without a doubt.

>>3130409
choosing hitscanning motherfuckers over well-designed, projectile based enemies

Duke 3d had the most refined gameplay experience. You could actually survive an encounter without taking any damage due to lack of hitscanners

>>3130456
git gud

>redneck rampage may not be mentioned in this thread, it had a lot of charm and character but is a bad game and doesn't belong here

The original Redneck Rampage is a very flawed game indeed, it could have been good but its flaws hinder the experience.

However, Redneck Rampage Rides Again In Arkansas, the sequel to the original, fixes most of the original game flaws. It also has new stuff like new enemies and driveable vehicules like the motorbike and a swamp vehicule, new enemies, and some EXCELLENT level design, some of the best, most technical, ever done professionally in a Build game.

It is also worth nothing that Route 66, the add-on to the original but the same devs who did add-ons for Blood, DN3D and SW, is pretty good and does a great job at hiding the flaws of the original.

Powerslave is the 2nd most underrated Build game. It runs on an older version of the engine, combat is simple and limited, the controls are limited too (strafing only works on a straight line) and they can be glitched to a ridiculous level, but it has some excellent level design and atmosphere.

>>3130925
So could you in Blood, unless you run around in playsight like a retard, or rather, like you're playing Doom.
It amazes me how Doom fan thinks that being able to strafe-run in circle around enemies in plain sight is the apogee of FPS gameplay.

Had the devs of these games realized the game would be so easy with KB+Mouse and circle strafing, they would have probably done something about it.

This is the strength of Blood, even with modern standar controls there is still amazing gameplay that requires twitch controls, reflexes, use of your environment, and some actual thought of how you approach each situation and with each weapon.

Also, learn to crouch. The very fact that crouching does something against hitscan enemies is a hint of how much depth Blood has for a pre Half-Life FPS.

>>3130152
Blood >= Duke 3D > SW

>>3130972
>thinking crouching is a better tactic than strafing

They're both awful and you should kill yourself you worthless cunt.

more Rides Again.

>>3130989
The point being that in Blood you need both, and a lot more.

>>3130964
>>3131004
rides again is pretty great
i think redneck rampage in general is pretty good but almost always dismissed because of the low brow humour and themes
>>3130972
tried the dos version of powerslave but it was kind of average
does anyone know where i could get a copy of powerslave EX? looks like nightdive took them all down and hired the guy to do turok i guess they are looking to re-release powerslave at some point too

>>3131016
Isn't Powerslave EX based on the console versions anyway? As in, not the same game as the DOS version, not using Build.

Duke 3D > Shadow Warrior > Blood

>>3131029
all versions are different and generaly the console versions are considered to be better than dos the console versions used lobotomy's slavedriver engine and kind of re-created the levels it was also fully 3d

Blood > RR > Duke 3D

Yet to play Shadow Warrior.

Witchaven 1 is ugly, but entertaining.

>>3130456

Blood is not Duke or Doom. It's a big difference. In those games, the enemies briefly pause so you just have to react faster to them. You can step in front of them.

Blood is not that. You do not fight guys with guns directly. It's kind of realistic in that fashion. You use dynamite and so forth.

How do slopes in Build work? Is there anything in Build that Doom doesn't do better?

>>3131049
room over room sectors

>>3131048
I'm pretty sure the differences between the Saturn and PS1 versions are minimal, outside of a couple of exclusive levels each.

And I think the contrary. I think the console ones are overrated, calling them "Metroid Prime before its time" like many people do is highly exagerated, it's not like there was one huge open world, many other games had you come back to previous levels to unlock stuff like Powerslave did.
I barely even consider the console ones "FPS", they're more like a hybrid first person action adventure paltformer with FPS elements. And we all know how first person platforming is like... especially on console.

Sure the Build one isn't as original, but it's got some brilliant level design.

>>3131049
Go bait in another thread, there is no fish to catch here.

>>3131047
someone who knows Witchaven, rare to see something like this.

>>3131047
>>3131136
Witchaven was shit

I've never played Witchaven and I'm curious about it. Is it worth it for someone who's generally not into heroic fantasy stuff like this?

How are levels, Doom-like or Strife-like ?

Pic is more Rides Again.

>>3131252
Levels are RPG-dungeon-crawler-like. Combat is melee mostly.

>>3131068
>I barely even consider the console ones "FPS", they're more like a hybrid first person action adventure paltformer with FPS elements. And we all know how first person platforming is like... especially on console.
I actually never had any problem with the plataforming in the console versions, I thought it was tight and well done. The game does give you a lot of air control which helps.
The sega saturn version also had rocket jumping that you could use to reach plataforms and that was actually expected of you to use to get all the secrets, I believe the ps1 version doesn't have this

Duke and Wang. Blood is trash yet gets praised.

>>3131741
People that don't like Blood are literal plebs.

I am always impressed about what a Genius Ken Silverman was. I am wondering what exactly he is up to now. He seems to be pretty lowkey nowadays which is sad because well this autistic kid is skilled. Having said that and having read the thread I feel like and felt like watching some lets play of Blood on youtube. Unfortunately I always get some little kids TALKING AND TALKING. Where the hell are the ZERO commentary lets plays. I do not want to hear any jerk talk- I DONT CARE. i just want to watch the game.

I just realized that Blood was the first game ever by Monolith Productions. I've never liked FEAR and thought it is overrated while Condemned is one of my favourite games. It is a crying shame that Condemned didn't find much love- especially the second one. They were so going for a third one but it just did not sell well enough which is sad because it is a really good game.

>>3131829
I thought he was working on one of these VR helmets, but according to wikipedia he's "head programmer" of a "holographic gaming" device.

redneck rampage

>>3131829
ken was a bad team player, the blood devs had a hard time communicating with him
search youtube for longplays for commentary-less videos

>>3131875
source: https://tcrf.net/Proto:Blood/Alpha_Demo#GEORGE.TXT

Duke and it isn't even close. Blood is a great game with an awesome eerie atmosphere but Duke Nukem 3D is Duke fucking Nukem 3D.

>>3131879
Interesting read.

>>3131829
Search for longplays, not letsplays of Blood. Also search for GalleyUK. All his let's plays are commentaryless. He quit youtubes a year ago though and hasn't made any new videos since. He made a lot of Blood videos so you'll be fine.

>>3130928
scientifically impossible to dodge hitscan
git logical

>>3131829
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjJ8RJfQjTs

I love Blood but D3d takes the cake.
It simply has better maps imho.

>>3131252
the atmosphere is pretty good but everything else is pretty bad i think it wants to be a dungeon crawler but didn't quite get there and it's more like doom just level by level
>>3131841
they also made captain claw but i'm not sure if it came before blood

>>3132023
You can move in certain ways that allows you to 'dodge' bullets in both Blood and Duke out in the open. Some autist claimed that isn't technically dodging but that's what it's always been called. The point is, you can be face to face with hitscanner enemies and they can shoot at you and they'll miss without you being in cover.

>>3131879
Yeah I've seen this, it's an interesting read and it probably explains why the Blood devs did changes on the "engine" side of the game, but I never take anything like that for granted unless I can also hear what the other side has to say. Maybe it wasn't part of his contract to keep contributing to the engine for the Blood team, maybe he was busy working on something else, or maybe the Blood team had been assholes to him, or maybe other reasons, etc

In case you don't understand what I mean by "engine side of the code", here is an interesting explanation on how Build games work by the guy who did Chocolate Duke.
http://fabiensanglard.net/duke3d/index.php

Those games had basically "two" codes, the Build code, taking care of things like rendering, and the game's code, taking care of behaviours, all gameplay, etc
The Build code's source was available only to Ken Silverman. But that didn't prevent the devs of Blood to reverse engineer to change some stuff.

>>3132487
they made Claw, Get Medieval, Shogo and Gruntz. all of them great

remember when game studios used to develop wide variety of game genres and weren't one trick ponies? i do

>>3133087
Man, doesn't DN3D get ridiculously stupid once you know every enemy behaviour by heart? Only extremely busy and complicated, or surprising, situations you can find in usermaps ever become a threat to me.
I guess the same could be said to most games once you've mastered them, though, but even after learning Blood quite a lot it's still exciting to me.
Although I guess that is mainly due to cultists, there are a couple of levels in the middle of ep2 with no cultists in them and I barely ever get hit in those.

>>3131252
>that screenshot

Holy fuck I forgot how good that game can look.

>>3133192
I know right? Same level, my favourite in Rides Again.

>>3133194
>>3131252
Same level again, this room is absolutely amazing. It's hard to get a good pic of it though because it's y-axis based, but you get the idea.

They blend sector-based and sprite-based structures perfectly together to give a sense of true 3D.
They also mix Build's shading system with shading/lighting directly applied on textures and sprites, to give a feel of dynamic light.
Those guys sure knew how to exploit the engine, no other Build game did that to this extent.

>>3133190
>Although I guess that is mainly due to cultists, there are a couple of levels in the middle of ep2 with no cultists in them and I barely ever get hit in those.
yeah... that's the problem with blood. unfortunately apart from cultists and their various types most enemies in the game are useless.

Anyway speaking of Build games, we should be getting a new commercial one soon... prequel to Bombshell.

>>3133213
I wouldn't really call that an issue though. Blood's enemies, without cultists, are aking to what you'd find in DN3D or Doom.
But it has cultists too.

>>3133230
Pics related.

I hope it's good.

>>3133260
>>3133213
Need more Blood webms pls

>>3131049
Build can do a lot more geometry alterations than doom. Even tip of the line doom ports can't change slope angles in real time for example, or have moving platforms without gross hacks.

>>3133285
It'll only be reposts m8. Can't play anymore because the laptop is fucked. I've got a few things here though.

>>3133420

>>3133423

>>3133425

>>3133427

>>3133428

>>3133429

>>3133431

>>3133432

>>3133434

>>3133435

>>3133440
>>3133435
>>3133434
>>3133432
>>3133431
>>3133429
>>3133428
>>3133427
>>3133425
>>3133423
>>3133420
Crouching and Peeking Around the corner: The Game.

>>3133440

>>3133449
It's not actually quite that simple. There's a lot more to it than just that, nuances of positioning, dominating cultists appropriately both in terms of shooting and knowing how their AI works (and how to dodge their shots), among many other things. To say it's just crouching and peaking trivialses it greatly. Try it for yourself and see if it's as simple as it looks in the webms. Of course it is just a single player FPS though.

>>3133451
*If you wanna see more check out pic related for 8mb sound ones. I can't post it without screenshotting because 4chan blocks infinite chan links.

Just follow the reply chain down from 7398; there's a good 30 or so Blood webms in there. They're of better quality like this:

http://webmshare.com/o8XM1

>>3133420
I always found it weird how cultists can't spot you and aren't triggered when you stand on water, even if just next to them.

Sadly there aren't many moments in the game where it's useful, there is this point, and the last level of Cryptic Passage... can't think of more.

>>3133427
Nice dynamite aiming.

>>3133431
In that room, trigger the above cultists from ground level and they might falll to their death. Pretty awesome that they added fall damage for enemies. It's the tons of small details like this which make this game stand out.

>>3133449
Crouching is OP as fuck in Blood. You're immune against the Grey Gargoyles just by crouching alone.

>>3133459
>I always found it weird how cultists can't spot you and aren't triggered when you stand on water, even if just next to them.
If you come out of the water slowly and don't kinda jump out they won't be able to see you. You can then lob dynamite at them from the water and they won't be alerted to your presence, kinda funny. There's a part in E5 (Ruined Temple) where you can fuck up a whole bunch of them like this.

>>3133460
Yeah, I'm thinking it's a glitch. Throw a dynamite and you'll notice it makes no sound when it detonates. Also if two cultists are close to each other and you kill one, the other still won't trigger, even if it's a dynamite.

And you better kill them before they go underwater... because cultists are surprisingly hard to hit underwater, I'm not sure if it's a glitch or not, but it always comes out as weird to me.

>>3133462
Voodoo Doll is a great weapon for underwater cultists btw.

>>3133462
Blood's water sectors work differenly from Duke's. When you're just swimming on a water surface, the game still thinks that you are in the underwater sector (you can see that on the automap), triggering underwater enemies and sound reverb. When you jump above the water, you get teleported to the above-water sector.
This was probably done so you can't avoid underwater enemies just by swimming on the surface.

>>3133479
It's still weird they'd neglect enemy detection from overwater... after all enemies do somewhat detect the player and react in between Room Over Room sectors so why not when you're overwater.

Anyway I think I've finally found motivation and inspiration to keep working on my SW map. I need to wrap this map, it's at least 3/4 done, then I can move on to something else.

>>3133435
I love that little bit of sparked wood debris that flies out from the box at the very beginning of the flare gun blast.

>captcha 34 Gore

>>3133425
This webm is what sold me on trying out Blood. Not sure where I saw it posted before, but either way that shit looked sick

>>3133435
The kick at the end

nigger who makes the webms, why in the ever loving fuck do you have your gamma so high. Way to kill the spookiness

>>3133763
He also uses the wrong resolution.

Any news on that BloodEx port Kaiser has been working on so far?

>>3133801
There's no such thing as a 'wrong resolution'. In the '90s the game was played on 4:3 CRT monitors, so even if you had the widescreen ones selected it was stretched out to 4:3 anyway. Not to mention that the in-game aspect ratios themselves obviously incorporate 4:3 as well.

>>3133801
it might not be that bad actually my monitor is just super fucking bright for multiplayer fps and I forget that. I always gotta turn it down to play blood or quake

>>3133852

>>3133852
>>3133989
I think the worst thing is that you don't even try to hide the non-integer artifacts using an unintrusive filter or anything.

>>3133836
Never heard of Kaiser working on BloodEX.
Lucius is making BloodXL, but he's probably dead again.

>>3134041
>filters

>>3133231
>>3133230
what is this game? looks fucking awesome. any gameplay videos? was bombshell any good? never heard of it.

>>3134059
Yes, stretching an digital output to a non-integer resolution on a digital display without artifacts requires filtering. The least you could do is stretch it to 1600x1200.

>>3134082
No, it's a to be released commercial game in development. Interceptor/(new)3DRealms hired some people from the DN3D community to make a new Build game.

All we've seen so far are those 2 screenshots, as well as two other ones released before but those 2 really don't look nearly as good.

I seem to understand that at first it was supposed to be a small free game promoting the other Bombshell game; but apparently plans have changed and it will be its own game instead.

>>3134059
Ignore the tryhard autist. He'll derail the thread with his butthurt if you give him a chance.

>>3134123
>>3134082

I have a feeling this will be better and more successful than any other Interceptor game so far.

I just hope gameplay and level design will be on par with DN3D/Blood/SW.
I hope they don't get lost in technical shenanigans with effects and shit.

In 2016, nobody cares how powerful Build can game, when playing a retro FPS like that, people care about Doom like gameplay and interconnected level design.

... and in the DN3D community only a handful of people are able to make maps which could pass up as professional Build era level design (in terms of layout, interconnectiveness, gameplay, etc), none of which are working on this to my knowledge.
Don't get me wrong, there are great mappers out there, but none of which ever really aimed to make levels in the style of the original games.

>>3134123
>hired some people from the DN3D community to make a new Build game.
That actually sounds really cool and promising. I honestly can't remember the last time I had any semblance of hype for an upcoming FPS. Sad but true... hope this one actually delivers.

Duke is the only one I really enjoy

>>3134151
> I honestly can't remember the last time I had any semblance of hype for an upcoming FPS.

I'm excited for Shadow Warrior 2. Also I heard Hard Reset is getting a re-release and they've changed/added stuff to it.

There are still FPS out there which I'm able to enjoy. Wolfenstein The Old Blood was probably the best in years.

Of course none of which get near as close to the greatness of Build games which is why a new one is nice.
I just hope level design will be on par. DN3D mappers tend to cram levels with tons of details which hinder gameplay and also at the cost of overall level design.

>>3134137
>Don't get me wrong, there are great mappers out there, but none of which ever really aimed to make levels in the style of the original games.
Just from the pics I doubt it's gonna be a Doom/Duke style in terms of map layout. Looks like it will be Half-Life esque. I would prefer an old school Doom-style arcade FPS of course but even a well designed Half-Life-esque campaign wouldn't be terrible if they make it well. Much better than the COD and Battlefield campaigns we have now.

>>3134163
Yeah I agree, the new Wolf was the best FPS we've had in ages. Even though it was HL in terms of design you could see that they still had some thought and variation in the level design/combat situations. It really felt like a trip to the past in that regard.

>>3134051
>Never heard of Kaiser working on BloodEX
Well, I know he posted a bunch of WIP gifs of it a while back, but I haven't heard anything about it since then.

>>3134123
>>3134137
I hope we get some gameplay of this ish soon.

>>3134216
Its currently under tight wraps, hence why I don't have a wordpress site like with my other personal projects.

There won't be any announcement when it's done either.

>>3135124
I see, guess you don't want another Powerslave situation. That seems fair.

How would one go about trying it out once it's done though? Ask around on /doom/ and hope someone has a link?

It's cool if you'd rather keep quiet about all that for now though. I'm a big fan of the work you've done on D64 and Powerslave, and just knowing you're working on a Blood port make me glad. Keep up the great work man!

>>3135140
To be honest, I haven't actually decided how to go about doing that. One option I have is to just put it up on torrent or something and just let the word of mouth spread from there.

I'll probably have something set in stone as I get close to finishing it.

>>3130152
shouldn't this shit be in the doom threads?

>>3135147
Seems like a good idea.
About the name though, "Blood EX", shouldn't you try to distance this port from your or the KEX engine's name? Just in case an Atari lawyer gets his grubby hands on it one day.

>>3130152
The mouse control in Blood is absolute shit. Play Duke3D using xDuke and compare.

I really wish it was not this bad though.

>>3135175
I agree. I was never used to controlling older games using keyboard so I use mouselook for all my retro fps games, including Blood, but the way environments distort and the lack of smoothness with the mouse is offputting

>>3135147
Can you give any hints of what have happened to Powerslave? Will be there an "offical" port?

>>3135124
>>3135147
Hey man, this is looking great! Can't wait to play it! Hope you remain free from the demons of Atari!

Is it really gonna be a 1:1 reverse engineer of Blood? Any chance this will work with something like Death Wish? I'm crazy impressed if you manage to pull it off m8.

Anyway thanks a lot and keep up the great work. Cool to know that someone like you posts here, too.

>>3135147
Any idea when you'll be releasing BloodEX? Is this the main thing you're working on right now or are there multiple projects?

>>3131841
You should try fear again man, I've never known anyone with good taste and a love for fps games to dislike it

>>3135696
FEAR was bad but could have been good.

They had this great AI and the neat reflex mode gimmick and instead of opting for an awesome straight action game they ruin it with stupid horror shit. Plus the levels, my god the levels, its like they went out of their way to choose the most boring and generic settings possible.

>>3135124
Why are your cultists so fat? 'Widescreen support' consists in stretching?

Also why is the ground not the right colour? Trouble with custom palettes?

Anyway - no matter how much reverse engineer you pull to look at the code, you'd still have to recreate the code yourself for your own engine, right?

>>3130152
FUCK YOU op Blood AND redneck rampage did it for me. Duke 3d is a classic but fuck you if you dont think rnr isnt a fucking gem.

>>3133435
>that 'fuck you' dynamite thrown back from the cultists
kek

>>3135664
More likely there won't be an official port. I am still pretty stressed out about that. However that won't stop me from flat out releasing the source code, but I want to wait a little bit more before I do that.

>>3135689
I am working on multiple projects. BloodEX is just something to keep me busy until I begin developing Turok 2 EX for Night Dive (which will be sometime in May). I'll be resuming on BloodEX afterwards though
.

>>3135838
Haven't nailed all the scaling for the sprites yet (the X/Y scale seems to be hardcoded per AI sprite). That screenshot I posted earlier was from an older version, which didn't have colormap variants implemented.

This one is slightly more up to date.

You didn't answer my question though, all the gameplay behaviour are re-done by you from scratch right?

So no matter how close it can get, it'll never be Blood. It's just like BloodCM, perhaps better, but at least BloodCM uses Build.

>>3131047
>>3131240

Witchhaven 2 was one of the most fun non-gunplay fps games since Hexen. That may be nostalgiagoggles I know, but it was pretty solid still.

So is Bombshell being made from scratch Build Source or just going to use Eduke32 as a base?

>>3131047
Witchaven 2 is already worth playing because of the installer.

>>3135989
Wasn't his port of Turok amazing and basically just like the original game? I haven't played it but that's what I heard. And looking at the youtube vids of it, it looks like a faithful recreation that might as well be a sourceport - whereas if you look at BloodCM on youtube it obviously looks off as fuck.

If he can do as good a job with Blood as he did with TurokEX then his project has real potential.

>>3136174
It's not EDuke32, but the two main programmers of EDuke32 are working on it so surely it's going to use code from EDuke32.

>>3136195
It's not what I heard. I don't believe anyone can accurately recreate a game's gameplay over to another engine even if you're looking at the original game's code. There will always be differences.

It can be a nice port, just like DN3D or Quake on Saturn, perhaps better than that, but it's still a recreation and it's not the original Blood. I don't see the point, not like you couldn't just play Blood already.

>>3136215
>It's not what I heard.
You heard TurokEX was bad? How'd you hear it was different?

>>3135989
Whoops, completely forgot to answer that.

The way I handle it is anything regarding to damage values, health, etc is reverse engineered, because that's the most important things that needs to be done right.

Anything regarding to player weapon swaying and object momentum speeds (such as how far you throw dynamite, or how much an explosion knocks you back) is entirely empirical, though I do rely on the assembly as a guide.

AI behavior is 100% identical and taken directly from the disassembly. Though I do add a bit more to it so it can be easily customized by modders. The only thing I am concerned about is how the enemy aims at the player. Build engine games uses a fixed-point slope value while Kex uses atan2/angle pitch to determine the aim.... which results in the AI being a tad more accurate even while the player crouching. I have some ideas to emulate the fixed point slope behavior though.

Everything else (renderer, collision, resource management, etc) is done from scratch.

Surprisingly enough, the 'cansee' function from Build is actually bugged and explains why some explosions do no damage to objects, even when its right next to it. Since Kex has its own way of handling this, explosions will now be guaranteed to damage whatever that is within its blast radius.

I don't intend on alienating BloodCM (a favorite of mine btw) or BloodXL. I am just simply offering another way to enjoy Blood without needing DosBox. In fact my original intention was to show off a more GPL-friendly engine that can run a Build game. I choosed Blood because it's actually the most organized of the Build games (3D Realms' code looks like fucking chicken scratch).

However, its simply up to the user's preference. BloodEX will have the capabilities to support Blood mods though.

>>3136780
>BloodCM (a favorite of mine btw)
Oh man, you done did it now. Better hide before NESfag finds your ass.

>[loud growling heard in the distance]

>>3136796
I say favorite because of the work and dedication that was put into it. Reminds me of my Doom64 TC days.

>>3135124

Are you gonna do anything about the crouch glitch/exploits ? I hated how in the original game you could pass under melee enemies, confuse the Gargoyles' AI and become pretty much immune to enemy projectiles by simply holding the crouch button. It completely trivializes half of Blood's bestiary. Any plans of fixing this ?

>>3136796
>Better hide before NESfag finds your ass.

Can there really be anyone who visits this board regularly who hasn't filtered his dumb ass?

>>3138036
nesfag is fine apart from his views on quake desu

>>3137703
yeah that should definitely be fixed. the projectiles should angle to your direction wherever you are, crouching or above, rather than just go on a straight horizontal path. cheog's projectiles are angled but they still can't hit you if youre crouching. ghosts and gargoyles should be able to melee you while you're prone, too, and you shouldn't be able to slide under enemies the way you can already.

>>3138036
I don't see how he's wrong regarding bloodcm and other shitty "ports".

>>3138420
He's not, but let's not open that can of worms again. It's best to just ignore the shitters when they bring it up.

>>3136780
So, any projectile based weapon and enemy is re-done from scratch, and so are hitscans?

Also yeah I don't believe you need anyone to tell you cultists don't need to be more accurate and that crouching to avoid part of their bullets (and vice versa, them crouching too) is a big part of the gameplay.

> In fact my original intention was to show off a more GPL-friendly engine that can run a Build game. I choosed Blood because it's actually the most organized of the Build games (3D Realms' code looks like fucking chicken scratch).

You should have done Exhumed/Powerslave. The DOS version is very underrated, and nowadays it plays badly as the max resolution is 640*480, and it could use some optional control "improvement" as it's not very kb+mouse friendly due to the fact that you can only strafe in straightline. Plus the controls are glitched and allow you to do some insanely fast moves if you use the mouse.

Besides, not only it runs on an older, more simple, version of Build, but gameplay behaviour are so simple there is little chance it could look wrong in a recreation.

>>3136796
I don't even care...

>>3136780
> I am just simply offering another way to enjoy Blood without needing DosBox.
... although implying that any of these ways is "playing Blood" triggers me a little.

>>3137703
>>3138375
Please, if you start doing some heavy gameplay re-balance like this, at least have the curtosy to make it something that can be turned on/off in the menu (and that should be turned off by default).

>>3138036
Nope, only people who can't read an opinion different than theirs without going apeshit. Reason why I still use the name most of the time and haven't changed in 7-8 years? People like that can filter me and I won't have to waste my time with them anymore.

>>3138475
Yes I really wish the dos version of powerslave could have a nice port too

>>3138475
Just anything regarding to object momentum/friction, player bobbing and jump height.

Everything including AI behavior, damage received, how much damage is saved from armor, etc should be spot on.

As for the object momentum, its because of the new engine not being in fixed-point so the time scale in terms of how fast an object moves is different than Build's. I did start incorporating a technique in the engine a few days ago to where I can directly convert values from the assembly without having to make guesses. Though some still need minor tweaking to make things feel right since the original game runs at 120 tics and my engine runs at 60.

>>3140194
you better get the jump and caleb's movement right m8. he needs to be acrobatic as fuck, being able to easily jump into and out of prone position with no problem. the feel of his movement, weight and momentum etc is one of the best things about the game

It seems that this thread has mostly turned into Blood discussion, but to answer the question: I find Shadow Warrior overwhelmingly the best.

I think it has the best levels by far, best enemies, best sound/music, best use of technology, most fun weapons. Just amazing. I understand why some people like the others more, but Shadow Warrior is the one you need to give a chance to realize how great it is.

>>3134137

How do I get involved with this?

>>3142420
Make good Duke3D maps 8 years ago

>>3142367
I love Shadow Warrior but I've found myself hit the limit of the game rather quickly. There aren't a ton of levels to play for it sadly, past the original game, the 2 add-ons and a couple of "okay" usermade episodes, there isn't much.

This being said I love the game for all its mapping possibilities. The game has TONS of effects, a lot of which were only used once in the game, I think there are one or two which were never even used. The mapping possibilities of the game have barely even been scratched, and probably never will be. The map is huge but I know I've barely scratched the surface. The coolest effect in the map about the map is how I used the "remote control effect" so the player has to move platforms around a fast water current, so he can then jump accross using the platforms.

I've been working on a SW map for a long time now (on and off), and since I finally have some time off I've been working on the finishing touches in the past few days.

I think the one effect that blows my mind the most with endless possibilities is the one which allows you to replace anything, by something else. What I mean is, you can have a bunch of sectors and walls and sprites and shit, use with the effect, it gets replaced but whatever you want you've built seperately.

>>3142420
You don't. It's already well into production, and applications were probably plentiful. They've got the best Build programmers there are, well except maybe Silverman although I wouldn't be surprised if they asked him for stuff, and for mappers and artists I'm pretty sure they've chosen people who already have a small experience in the industry.

I had a (very small) paid job for one of the recent commercial re-release of a Build game, done quite a few usermaps for DN3D and my application got no answer.
Though I think I may have been critical about Interceptor some time ago which may have no helped? Not sure though.

>>3142367
Shadow Warrior would probably be my favourite out of the three if its shooting didn't feel so underwhelming. I'm not talking about in terms of weapon functionality. In terms of that it's fine. I mean its weapons just feel really unsatisfying to blast compared to Duke and Blood, which to me is really important in an FPS. It's still a really great game and one of my all time faves because of everything else it has going for it but I really wish its actual shooting felt more satisfying.

>>3138475
>Please, if you start doing some heavy gameplay re-balance like this, at least have the curtosy to make it something that can be turned on/off in the menu (and that should be turned off by default).
Eh, I doubt the developers ideally intended for you to simply crouch and become invincible to melee/projectile enemies like gargoyles etc. It was a bad oversight on their part. I love Blood and it's my favourite of the big three BUILD engine games (even despite this problem) but it's still something that sucks about it. I would much prefer to actually fight Cheogs the way you were supposed to have - that is, actually moving around and dodging projectiles/melee attacks - rather than just simply crouching and hitting them with the tesla canon/voodoo doll. Makes the enemy pretty much redundant and it's very unfortunate because otherwise it would be an awesome fight.

I just keep getting amazed at the effects you can pull off in Shadow Warrior.

Did you know that you can have enemies follow a pre-definite path? And that you can have them do specific actions (wait, jump, crouch, fire, use ladder, etc) on that path?

Also I have this sector, triggered by a switch it goes around following a certain path, but at the same time it also raises vertically. Two different effects working together and the game handles it just like that.

>>3144213
>Eh, I doubt the developers ideally intended for you to simply crouch and become invincible to melee/projectile enemies like gargoyles etc.

You don't know that. Maybe they intended it, because at the time crouching was not a gameplay habit especially not in combat.
Maybe they did intend it to be that useful, to give another layer of movement compared to other FPS of the time.

Changing enemies behaviours so that they can hit you more easily (or at all) while crouching isn't a "bugfix", it's a mod, an entire gameplay change. Things like that could be cool sure, but shouldn't be a default setting.

But anyway like I said, nail the thing right before even starting to think about fixes and gameplay changes. I still don't believe it's possible to replicate Blood's behaviors accurately that way.

>>3135124
Will it be like the original in gameplay?

>>3142367
I ran through all of Shadow Warrior once and just... didnt like it as much as Duke or Blood.
I really don't know what it is, i just didnt feel it/

Wasn't this a build engine game? Can we talk about it?

So what's the best way to play Blood? Have I fucked up by picking up Steam version? Also, is SW Redux any good?

>>3146083
The best way to play Blood still is through DOSbox. Steam and GOG versions are the same, through DOSbox.

However the game doesn't run too well in DOSbox so you need to do proper configuring, unless you have a latest end computer.

First don't expect to run the game above 800*600, it barely makes a difference anyway in Build games between 800*600 and above.

In DOSBoxBlood.conf try different "output" methods (surface, ddraw, opengl, etc, they're listed in the file above) see which one runs best for you.

Setting "cycles" manually rather than "max" or "auto" will give you a better framerate. You can "cycleup" "and "cycledown" in game.

If you get a flickering HUD glitch you'll need to change "machine" to "vesa_nolfb".

Finally you should make the game play midi music over CD music. In "dosboxBlood_single.conf" and "dosboxBlood_addon.conf" change "game.ins" by "game.gog" for that.

Also you may want to install BMouse which will give you better mouse look movement, especially for diagonals which Build sucked at by default.

>>3145898
Nope.

>>3145898
Unfortunately no, the LucasArts FPS's were made with in house engines, I think this one was the "Jedi Engine" and the 3d one for Jedi Knight was the "Sith Engine"

>>3146121
Thanks a lot m8

>>3146083
This fix worked pretty well for me. https://steamcommunity.com/app/299030/discussions/0/517142892058272558/

Redux is shit, but the other SW's ports are even worse. I'd stick with Dosbox.

>>3130164
I think SW had a lot more character than Edgeblood.

>>3146132
>>3146141
Ah yeah, both Redux and SWP are kinda "decent" but each has its own share of issues.

I stick to DOSbox as well for Shadow Warrior when playing. Besides it runs better than Blood.

SWPBuild is good for mapping though, only solution so far besides the original Build in DOS.

>>3130164
>Combat
Blood = Duke > SW

>Levels
Blood = Duke > SW

>Enemies
Duke > SW > Blood

>Charm/Character
Blood > Duke > SW

>Weapons
Blood > Duke > SW

>Overall
Blood >= Duke > SW

>>3140194
Hey man, if you're still reading this thread:

Any chance of some version of your engine(s) becoming open source in the forseeable future? There's been some rising dissatisfaction with the zdoom family of engines in the doom community and several of the people (modders and actual programmers alike) into the indie game or otherwise more complex side of modding would jump at the possibility of having a more robust, extensible and overall sane engine to work with.

I've looked through the data files for turok and [REDACTED] and it seems absolutely wonderful to work with.

>>3146686
>Any chance of some version of your engine(s) becoming open source in the forseeable future? There's been some rising dissatisfaction with the zdoom family of engines in the doom community and several of the people (modders and actual programmers alike) into the indie game or otherwise more complex side of modding would jump at the possibility of having a more robust, extensible and overall sane engine to work with.

EDuke32? This i a Build thread after all so :

http://www.moddb.com/games/slenders-woods

http://www.moddb.com/games/sonic-the-hedgehog-3d

http://www.moddb.com/games/yume-nikki-3d

http://www.moddb.com/games/the-amc-tc/