/vr/ - Retro Games

https://youtu.be/2I83GsQGg6U

>>3129825
Woo, sugoi!

dustloop.com probably still has archived information about X, considering how many revisions behind it is you'll be lucky to find much of anything though

>>3129635
vs. another player?
Cant help you with that, I only played against AI.
Also, it was Reload on PC, so no idea what really changed from version to version.

The only thing I do in fighting games it choose the character I feel the most intuitive to my playstyle and try to learn how to execute right combos at right time.

What is your main?

>>3129635
Practice makes perfect.

Work on your execution so you don't have to think about how to make a move or combo come out, it just does.

Then work on basic footsies and mind games until you can start to anticipate and counter opponents.

Then just keep playing. Built on strong fundamentals, over time you will get better and better.

>>3129825
>Movimentation is really important
>Movimentation
That's not fucking English, who wrote this shit?

>>3131617
English speaking people are a minority when it comes to fighters. They're a much bigger genre in Asia and South America than they are NA or Europe, even though they're decently big there too.

>>3129635
1. Use a stick, as the DC pad is ass.
2. Play the PC version since it has online, and you can use whatever control method you want.

>>3129635
>How the fuck do I git gud at this game?
You play and play and play and play and play, GG takes quite a lot of practice to git gud at.
Work on the basics first, footsies and crossups, pick a character you like or you're comfortable with and learn how their normals works, then work your way up to their specials and overdrives, match-up strategies, Roman Cancels and other shenanigans like Jump Install or backdash cancel, loops etc., certain characters like Venom, Faust and Bridget are very execution heavy and while they can be quite formidable when mastered they take quite a lot of practice and general experience. I was a Johnny main since back then and subbed Slayer, which became my main later on so if you play either of these I can give you some general tips though the biggest part of the work will be up to you, I can explain how they work but you'll have to get accustomed to them.

>>3129635

>Dreamcast version

Don't play Guilty Gear X lol, it hasn't been played by real players since like 2003 because it's woefully outdated. It's good as a curiosity if you want to play its story modes or see how the characters evolved over time, but it'd be a fool's errand practicing stuff on it with the intent of getting better at Guilty Gear as a whole

Pick up Accent Core +R on Steam, it's basically GGX after being filtered through 5 balance patches and a couple of extra characters.

Alternatively, you could pick up #Reload which is $5 cheaper, has slightly better (modded) netplay, and a small but competent community that persists to this day. However, it has a slightly smaller roster and worse balance than +R.

There are far larger learning resources for both of these games than GGX. When you've utilized them and improved, you'll be able to go back to Missing Link and GGX and see how borked they were

>>3129635

Imagine Guilty Gear isn't a fighting game. Imagine it's an RPG or an action-adventure. In RPGs you have to grind stats to improve. In action-adventures you have to explore new areas and clear new challenges to progress.

Fighting games are exactly the same, except the progress is visible only to you, and completely self-imposed. Practicing the same combo for two hours in training mode is the same as grinding levels in a JRPG for two hours.

People have a hard time getting into that mentality when they're new to fighters, which is why many quit.

The cool thing about fighters is that once you get the basics down those skills will serve you in every other fighter, and there's a vibrant competitive scene to explore unlike other non-competitive genres

>>3129635
The skill ceiling in Guilty Gear is controlled by your reaction speed, so if you don't have lightning fast reflexes and the ability to nail cancels on exact frames and sequence a complete combo afterwards you will literally never "git gud".

>>3132096
This is part of why I don't like GG and the other new combo based twitch fighters. They seem more about 1-frame counters into big combos. I like the traditional Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Mortal Kombat style where it's more about the back and forth and mind games.

>>3133504
>They seem more about 1-frame counters into big combos
That's BB you're talking about, GG was more about having solid fundamentals, it started becoming more reliant on frame perfect execution for cancels around Midnight Carnival/#Reload, the actual combo execution is veeeeeery lax, if you want games that actually require perfect combo string inputs you can go play SF@3, that alone is much more harder in terms of combo strings compared to GG.

>>3133592
>if you want games that actually require perfect combo string inputs you can go play SF@3, that alone is much more harder in terms of combo strings compared to GG.

That is what I like, yeah. I find when combos are easy to perform people focus on them more and in the end it leads to less interactions which is a less interesting match in my opinion. Though I do still like some like that, I prefer an older style. I honestly can't really tell the difference between GG and BB though, I've only played them a little.

Pre XII KoF hits the balance about perfect in my opinion.

>>3133625
>I find when combos are easy to perform people focus on them more and in the end it leads to less interactions

I can't say that you're wrong, because that's exactly what happened for BB, but it really depends on how solid the rest of the game is more than having focus on combo strings.

GG has the advantage of being very freeform when it comes to everything so even if you can't pull off super duper long combo strings you can still perform very well as long as you got got reflexes and proper fundamentals in terms of footsies, zoning and mindgames. Problem is you have to deal with the fact that certain characters simply aren't made for sheer damage output and orthodox combo strings, you can't expect Venom to use the same combo methods that Slayer or Sol use, and you have to deal with the fact that you have to completely master certain characters' gimmicks in order to get good with them, it's useless to play as Eddie/Zato if you don't know how to use puppet characters, you can't expect to master Johnny if you can't use coins and mist cancel properly.

In BB most characters are extremely basic in nature and as long as you time your inputs correctly you can perform well, the only characters that have some relatively important gimmick are Carl/Relius, Kokopuffs and maaaaaaaaybe Valk, all the rest is real basic combo strings with the occasional command throw, what's worse is that basically everyone has the same damage potential besides the garbage character and the game revolves around dealing damage since besides that most of the cast works more or less the same, I blame all those shitty overdrive/roll/damage focused gimmicks, GG managed to have a much more diverse cast with one third of the mechanics and gimmicks.

But none of this is retro anyway.

I can't stand SF@ picky frame requirements though, I can do FRC pretty well with my mains and I got pretty good reflexes, but SF@ it's way too strict, I prefer the requirements of games like CvS.

>>3133668
GG does sound more interesting of the two, it's mostly the aesthetics of both the games I didn't like. I do get what you mean about SF@ being picky though.

I like the King of Fighters more than any of the street fighters overall.

>>3133675
>I like the King of Fighters more than any of the street fighters overall.

If you like how Garou plays you'll probably like GG too, imagine it as Garou on crack with a larger roster.

>>3133701
I found Garou a little disappointing in how simplified everything felt. Maybe I'm just weird, but almost every desperation just being qcfx2 was a bit of a put off. Though not a huge one. I do like the game, it's mostly the small roster and lack of team battles that it was never a preferred one.

With GG the character designs are the main reason I'll never probably play it. I just don't like the way anything in the game looks. That's just personal though and I know I'm int he minority. I actually kind of like the way Injustice looks and most people hate that. Despite it's reliance on combos, it's currently my favorite fighter.

>>3133716
>Maybe I'm just weird, but almost every desperation just being qcfx2 was a bit of a put off.
Oh well, if that's your problem then I guess GG isn't for you, unless you want ot use characters with almost arcane levels of execution like Zato/Eddie or Venom.
>the character designs are the main reason I'll never probably play it
I feel you on this, that's the main reason I don't play Samsho, Last Blade and SF, I can't find a character I like no matter what, the only SF I've ever played extensively was the EX series because I really liked the character designs in that series even though it was mechanically so-so.

>>3133727
>>3133727
The QCFx2 thing wasn't a big deal to me, it just made the game feel a little weird when I'd been focusing on KoF for so long. I kind of like desperation attacks being somewhat tough to pull off because it makes doing it at just the right moment harder.

If I really liked the way GG looked then I may well have got into it more, but I'm pretty picky in that regard. I didn't even play KoF XII and XIII because I don't like the way the game looks.

I'm right there with you on Last Blade though. 1 and 2 are my two favorite non-KoF SNK fighters.

The guilty gear I'm playing right now against I-no is making me consider throwing my tv out the fucking window.

>>3135462
If you think I-no is hard RB Geese/KoF 2002 Rugal would probably make you go insane in anger.

Learn her patterns, if you can't beat arcade I-no that means you're not paying attention to her patterns and can't land good hits and combos, she's really easy once you learn her behaviour.

>>3133746
I've seen lots of KoF XIII videos because at first I was impressed with the graphics, and was surprised that anyone would bother to make a 2d game with sprites these days.

but the more I watched, the more the animation was a little too perfect. they might as well be cel-shaded 3d characters and backgrounds. plus it's a little too weeabooish for me.

plus I assume any fighting game nowadays is impossibly complicated and inaccessible.

>>3133727
>that's the main reason I don't play Samsho, Last Blade and SF, I can't find a character I like no matter what
>>3133746
>I'm right there with you on Last Blade though. 1 and 2 are my two favorite non-KoF SNK fighters
nigga what

>>3135865
Well, it's accent core I'm playing if that makes a difference. And with an Xbox controller which is making me want to kill myself. It's not even reading her moves, it just seems like she's input reading like a motherfucker. I shouldn't complain much since this is the first time I've ever played the game and am using dizzy who is supposedly kinda of difficult to use against I-no, but still it makes me fucking salty when 8/10 times she blocks my shit then move spams with out a ton of pattern and breaks out combos. I've gotten had her beat numerous times but it's like when she gets real low she kicks into overdrive. Doesn't help she's a god at spamming tension at the right time. Her pattern/big special attack is easy, it's just the regular fighting shit she does is pissing me off.

>>3136257
>it just seems like she's input reading like a motherfucker.

You're playing a fighting game single player. That's to be expected. It's why it's considered a kind of shitty genre for solo play.

>>3131929
First off what exactly is a "real player" and secondly why are you even here if you care so much if a game is "woefully outdated"?

>>3136263
I know, like I said I shouldn't be bitching but I wasn't ever this annoyed with soul caliber or MK at their peak points. I feel like I'm playing an omniscient God who's laughing uncontrollably at me writhe in sadness.

>>3136345
Yeah, I hear you. With Soul Calibur and MK the AI is cheesy, but not really trying to hard. Some games though go for a single player mode that tries to be as difficult to beat as possible.

I don't see the point because when you're fighting an opponent that can literally react to your moves before the animation even starts, the only way to beat them is to exploit whatever weakness the AI does have and cheese that for the win. Even though it's hard to do, it throws almost all the strategy and mind games that are the basis of what makes it fun for most people.

I'm a bit biased though because I hate fighting AI even more than most.

>>3136358
Yee, I really like how the game works and is fast paced, I've always been decent at fighting games but never have played them much outside of when I get drunk with friends. So I'm trying to take some steps into the genre, since they are really neat when you get the hang of everything.

>>3136257
>Well, it's accent core I'm playing if that makes a difference.
Ah, then you have plenty of options to kick her ass, I thought you were on #Reload or something.
>And with an Xbox controller
That's a special kind of hell you've chosen for yourself.
>I've gotten had her beat numerous times but it's like when she gets real low she kicks into overdrive
Arcade I-no is set on max difficulty in terms of AI and she has both Health and Tension regen plus Tension buffs, it's normal that you have to struggle a bit when fighting her, she DOES cheat, but then again, you should have her beat in no time once you realize the terrible flaws in her patterns, as I said, Geese or Rugal are much more infuriantingly unfair than I-no because at least I-no still has a fair moveset with all its pros and cons.

What's your character? I can give you tips if its someone I use.

>>3136369
My opinion on the best way to get good fast is to just leap into online. You can look for specific matches, but I prefer random as it gives you all kinds of people playing in all manner of different styles.

It's kind of a trial by fire approach, but the benefit over practicing single player is you don't waste your time learning how to deal with AI. When you're not busy learning how to out cheese something reading your inputs you can put a lot more focus into practical skills and techniques.

If you go in expecting to loose a lot at first, but looking at it as training then you'll probably be surprised how quickly you improve. You'll also start to notice either things you're bad at doing like defending a certain move or performing a combo you've seen is very effective. Then it's time to hop into training mode and work on that.

>>3131929
I'll second what this anon said. X2 introduced some characters and then XX#Reload was only a balance patch without new mechanics so it's a very polished game.

>>3129635
Mind you, I was awed about how much GGX was a step up from the first GG; but #Reload and AC+R are even better.

The Guilty Gear games are very rich in term of mechanics and some characters have vastly different gameplay, so read info on dustloop, learn what combos you can perform, and practice. Maybe start with Ky, Sol or Jam. They are the less bizarre.

>>3136370
I'm running dizzy, I like her move set and that, it just doesn't seem conducive to duking it out with I-no.
>>3136379
Yeah that's what I usually hear, I just wanted to get a baseline since I feel like if you can at least beat arcade then you might not get absolutely murdered right off the bat.

>>3136537
>I feel like if you can at least beat arcade then you might not get absolutely murdered right off the bat.

You'd think so, but as you're learning in having to deal with cheating AI and frame reading it's not necessarily the case. I'm actually of the opinion that too much single player makes you worse at vs because you're not bad habits.

At least when you go online and get murdered you're on a level playing field and you can look at what the other person was doing and figure out how to deal with it or use the same things to your advantage. You don't get any of that learning when you're just dealing with trying to out cheese a cheating robot.

Also in doing a lot of random you will meet some people you're very close in skill to and can fight back and forth if you want.

>>3136561
No I totally get what you're saying, I'm just saying I haven't played a ton of fighters in a while so I just want some basic mechanical understanding. I agree completely with the concept of what you're saying.

>>3136567
Ahh yeah, if you're still at the point where you're getting good at just having your moves and combos come out reliably and working on basic strategy it's good keep to offline. Just don't get too worried about beating single player mode unless it's just plain fun.

I'm always happy to hear about people having fun with fighters. I think they really are one of the best types of games ever. Sorry I can't help more specifically with GG.

>>3136583
For sure, I definitely want to get into them more because I've always adapted quickly in small group play with friends who actually own the games but I want to get to an onlin competitive level since it seems neat.

>>3136537
>it just doesn't seem conducive to duking it out with I-no.

Depends, Dizzy is a Zoner and a very powerful one if you master the fishes, spears and bubbles, her ODs are also very powerful but she has a really steep learning curve.

I don't have much experience with her because she has a very unorthodox zoning method, but then again most GG characters are very unorthodox when it comes to their type, what I can suggest you to do is to learn how to pressure with Necro/Undine/Fish/Bubbles, problem is even with chip damage I-no's not really going to feel it much since her health regenerates, I guess one of Dizzy's most powerful tools here would be her Undine's icicle special which is 2.2HS iirc which is kinda nasty when it hits and it's perfect for trapping I-no when she charges forward or right after the end of her specials, though you gotta learn how to position yourself properly
Most of Dizzy's HS are also pretty good in terms of damage and stun, especially 2HS which comes out pretty fast though it doesn't have the range of 5HS, though she really isn't build for proper melee so don't think they're going to be that useful anyway, just keep in mind that they're not to be underestimated.

If you like zoners though I would recommend you to check Venom as he's probably the overall nastiest in GG when it comes to everything, but he's also probably the hardest to learn properly in terms of setup, Dizzy has the "advantage" of having her projectiles come out and going automatically, Venom is more dependent on careful setups, positioning and chaining, but once you get him going he's amazing and also really fun to play.

Besides, even if you feel you can't get much out of her zoning you can just bite the bullet and go full melee, which is what I did back then when I wanted all the endings in the gallery, I beat I-no only using melee with Dizzy, it was a bit hard but it's perfectly doable if you have good fundamentals.

>>3136274
Real as in human.