/vr/ - Retro Games

They make games easier for my aging brain.

>>3062532
kek

>>3062530
If you're in the PAL region you should get PAL stuff.

The only reason to import is if something wasn't released in your region.

But you should have modded consoles anyways.

>>3062530
50 hz gives you eye-cancer if you play on a CRT, which you should. So yes, PAL is shit.

>>3062539
I have a chipped ps1, and I have played parasite eve (american version) on it. It wasn't too fast or anything. Do you have some suggestions for ntsc region?

>>3062548
Well meme'd, sir. Fuck off.
- OP

This is coming from an American. There's only 2 games I may buy that are PAL and they're Saturn games that weren't optimized for your region anyway.

If you grew up with PAL then that's you're thing. I personally see it as a shit standard since few games are made for it. Nothing I care about. NTSC games are better always. Unless you're into speed running. Then some games like certain Crash games you want for glitches.

Japs don't care either. They want some of our NTSC U games since they're the superior version.

>>3062530
The PAL versions can fuck up timing a bit in certain games. A notable example would be FF9. In the NTSC version, you have 12 hours to get to disc 3 and collect the sword. Due to the timing being sped up in the PAL version, it only gives you ~10 hours.

>>3062530
Yes, PAL is shit. There is never any reason to play a PAL game. 60Hz is bad enough, 50Hz is completely unacceptable. Remember, you need CRT-style flicker to get good motion quality from console games. Anybody claiming PAL has no flicker problems is admitting they have sample-and-hold blur or high latency.

>>3062539
I live in a PAL region, I imported everything (except portable games where there is no PAL or NTSC). PAL is always shit, even for games developed for PAL. Eg. the entire ZX Spectrum library is worthless.

>>3062568
Aww shit mayne, you really hate the PAL shit. You've convinced me to buy my next ps1 game in ntsc format. -OP

Buy shit for your region so you stop increasing the price of our shit.

>>3062554
>>3062572
You're a fucking retard. You fuck off.

>>3062572
A good way of telling how clueless a person is when it comes to NTSC vs PAL is if they highlight the 50Hz vs 60Hz. It makes literally ZERO fucking difference.

Everything he just said is complete nonsense. There are some genuine problems with some PAL games, refresh rate has nothing to do with it.

>>3062621
Blimey, I could swear the 10hz difference made games run 16% slower.

>>3062621
A good way of telling how clueless a person is when it comes to NTSC vs PAL is if they don't see a difference between 50Hz vs 60Hz. It makes all the fucking difference.

Btw if you're emulating intensive systems like the ps2, sticking to properly optimized pal 50 WILL give you a massive speed boost. It's the trick that I use to achieve full speeds on my shitty integrated graphics.

>>3062621
You've been posting a lot and I've ignored you for awhile but please stop with this shit.

60hz flicker is bad enough. It can be a nightmare with cheap LED lights in an office.

On displays I can't see it and it doesn't bother me. Probably because of the limited light output. Goes for both CRTs and LCDs with strobes. With shitty overhead lights I can't stand it.

50hz is torture.

>>3062625
Surely a joke?
The refresh rate has nothing to do with the speed a game runs at, apart from that some lazy companies didn't bother fixing their games for PAL regions (including Nintendo occasionally) and you got the whole 16% slowdown.

>>3062638
Well it's not the same for everyone, it's just you.

I posted once in this thread before you posted that.

>>3062643
Yeah that's correct, the sad thing is that the majority of devs at nintendo didn't care about fixing the refresh rate so it was just easier to make the whole thing slower. Sega had a bigger market in Europe at the time so they tended to care a bit more about providing games at the correct rates.

>>3062648
I'm sorry that you're blind.

>>3062621
>50Hz vs 60Hz
Flicker perception is non-linear. 50Hz flicker isn't 20% more annoying than 60Hz, it's more like 2 or 3 times as annoying. If you're playing on a big screen it can be literally nauseating. 60Hz is still below the flicker fusion threshold for a lot of people, but it's close enough that you can tolerate it.

>>3062621

Sometimes it's fine. Sometimes games legitimately run slower because the devs couldn't be bothered to fix it. Sonic 2 and Mario 64 are two games I notice it on most.

>>3062532
Neural impulses do not slow with age, however the brain does shrink over time meaning that fewer neurons means less ability to perform parallel processing. A 90 year old will have noticeably fewer neurons than a 30 year old which means he's not as cognitively capable.

Doesn't NTSC have shit colour?

>>3062692
By now it's just a meme. Back in the day with broadcast signals and all it wasn't.

>>3062692
That was a meme left over from the days of vacuum tube TVs.

>>3062692
Isn't color coding handled by hardware? I'm a layman, but I think it only affects movies and the NES where color isn't done in hardware.

>>3062701
>>3062702
>everything is a meme

>>3062692
When we say "NTSC", we don't actually mean "NTSC", we mean "RGB60", which has perfect color.

>>3062706
It is legitimately a meme on /vr/. Spend two seconds here and you would see.

>>3062715
My dad was a director of photography and used to say the same thing though, he was an old bastard mind you. Didn't know they had memes back then.

>>3062530
But PAL ps1 games don't run any slower than their American/Japanese counterparts

Also nice collection, Clock Tower is worth a shit ton nowadays for the PAL regions

If you're playing NTSC-M or NTSC-U games that weren't optimised for PAL then NTSC-M or NTSC-U would be the better choice. If you're playing games designed for PAL, like the vast majority of 80s PC games, then PAL is better. Judged solely on their own merits PAL is superior in every way. It was developed to be an improvement.

>>3062724
Yes they do. You might not notice it because the music isn't slower. CD games play the music from the disc, not through the console, so the music isn't affected.

>>3062668
>Flicker perception is non-linear.
This is false. Weapon light strobes are often 5-20hz.
That is what causes the most distraction. Prolong exposure will cause nausea. Some people will experience worse symptoms.

>>3062728
>If you're playing games designed for PAL, like the vast majority of 80s PC games

>Apple II
60Hz
>PC compatibles
60Hz/70Hz
>680x0 Macs
60Hz
>TRS-80
60Hz
>Commodore 64
60Hz
>Atari 800
60Hz

What the fuck is "NTSC-M"

>>3062728
>Judged solely on their own merits PAL is superior in every way.
Arguably if you are viewing it on a small screen, far away, in a brightly lit room, and you have average or lower IQ (the faster the brain, the faster the refresh rate needed to avoid annoying flicker). If you are playing on a big screen in the dark, as you should for maximum enjoyment, and you are not literally stupid, then NTSC is objectively better.

>>3062740
>This is false
It's 100% true. Set up a strobe at 41.7Hz (high current white LED will do), and use it to illuminate a piece of paper or something so you get a flat rectangle like a screen. Note how it's even worse compared to PAL than PAL is compared to NTSC.

>Weapon light strobes are often 5-20hz.
PAL isn't quite weapons grade flicker, but it's close. PAL absolutely can cause nausea under some viewing conditions. I've never experienced this with NTSC flicker.

>>3062752
>and you have average or lower IQ (the faster the brain, the faster the refresh rate needed to avoid annoying flicker)
I always wondered if TVs are annoyingly flickery to elderly people because of their slowed-down Alzheimer's brains.

>>3062728
>It was developed to be an improvement.
Bullshit. PAL is 50Hz purely because the electricity grid in PAL countries runs at 50Hz. It's a lazy cost-cutting measure. Japan proves that you can have NTSC TV even on a 50Hz grid (half of Japan's electricity grid is 50Hz).

>>3062771
You've got it backwards, they are less sensitive to flicker.

>>3062779
Yes in fact elderly people experience a kind of sample-and-hold blur where the brain isn't moving fast enough to detect flicker.

>>3062776
50hz is really no different to 60hz. Japanese video games weren't the concern of anyone when PAL was developed.
>>3062752
There is no flicker. Where are you getting this from? Nice pseudoscience, by the way.
>>3062747
The only decent computer there is the C64 on which the majority of games were developed in Europe.
Why are Americans such retards when it comes to computera
>Apple II
>Atari
>American computer culture
Don't make me piss myself.

What's all this flicker stuff you're talking about? 23 years of watching PAL TV and not quite sure what you lot are on about. Unless you mean when someone wears a stripey shirt or w/e and it goes weird.

>>3062752
>>3062771
>>3062784
Neurological studies did show that high IQ, well-educated people in old age have better reflexes and less risk of dementia. Poorly educated people deteriorate more.

It's thought that dementia will be less of a problem for boomers than previous generations since the vast majority of them at least have a high school diploma as opposed to earlier times when people dropped out of school in the 7th grade to work in a coal mine and feed their 15 siblings.

>>3062720
Memes are as old as the first traces of human culture.

>>3062787
>The only decent computer there is the C64 on which the majority of games were developed in Europe.

You wanna boot up some Epyx, SSI, Origin, Synapse, and Broderbund stuff and try again?

>>3062787
>being this retarded to not know the immense importance of the Apple II to the development of computer culture
PC gaming was born on that platform.

>>3062787
>There is no flicker
WTF are you talking about? Of course there's flicker, that's how a CRT works. The flicker is a good thing because it's the only way to avoid sample-and-hold blur without adding latency and interpolation artifacts. There's a reason modern gaming LCDs deliberately add flicker.

>>3062815
No noticeable or annoying flicker like you seem to think. I don't know where you're getting this from.
>>3062813
What the fuck? Get out of here with that piece of shit, you lying yank. American computer culture may have been built around some Apple piece of shit, but American computer 'culture' is also shit.
>>3062806
Please stop, you're embarassing yourself with your shit taste.
>>3062793
I guess it happens when you use PAL stuff on NTSC, because it doesn't exist here.

>>3062829
So what now. Should I play some Yuro shmup with gradient colors and cheese grater arpeggio music? Or maybe that Dizzy shit with the anthro egg.

>>3062530
Myy Suikodenis mulle

>>3062829
>No noticeable or annoying flicker
>it doesn't exist here
You are using a sample-and-hold display, a frame doubling display, or an interpolating display. None of these are acceptable for gaming. If you can't see flicker on a native 50Hz CRT you are literally retarded.

>>3062846
It is no more noticable than on NTSC. I've used both and NTSC had a much more noticable flicker.
>>3062839
Play whatever you like, kid.

it ordopends how the PAL conversion was done. Decent developers would take the time to convert games to a proper 50hz format while lazy ones would just cripple the speed of everything for a lazy fit. PAL Sonic 1 seems broken at how slow it is in comparison to the NTSC version but PAL Sonic 2 you can barely tell the difference.

>>3062862
>NTSC had a much more noticable flicker
You're either lying, or you were using a frame doubling CRT (they were somewhat popular back then) for the PAL case, which destroys motion quality.

>>3062870
No software tweak can make 50Hz look acceptable. The only good thing about "optimized" 50Hz ports is you can emulate them at 60Hz for a hard-mode extra fast game.

>>3062871
You must be retarded if you can't see it. Maybe you were using a PAL set in the US, but I used to live in America and NTSC flicker is horrifying.

>>3062813
All the familiar genres of adventure/CRPG/sports sim/war sim which have been a fixture of PC gaming to the present. The Atari 8-bit occupies a bit of an odd place; it was better at arcade games and most of the adventure/sim stuff it got was ported from the Apple II rather than being original titles.

Arcade games were never a huge part of the American PC game scene; after the video game crash they almost vanished. Most of the late 80s arcade ports on the C64 and whatnot (Bubble Bobble, Arkanoid, Bad Dudes, etc) were developed in Europe and converted to NTSC/disk format for the US market while native game devs like Microprose were almost completely centered around the adventure/sim/RPG axis.

>>3062895

>>3062829
>claims almost all C64/Amiga games were developed in Europe
>gets told
>shifts the goalposts and says "Oh well those games are shit they don't count"

>>3062839
How DARE you insult Dizzy

>>3062898
Yep, you're just an idiot or you're extremely biased towards NTSC for some reason.

>>3062879

but 50hz games have more resolution, you just have less screen size with the borders. Also an interesting find i had was how i hated how Jill runs in resident evil 3 NTSC version. in the PAL version she runs like a human but in the NTSC version i have on the ps3 her run is ridiculously fast it seems fake.

>>3062895
You're not fooling anybody. 50Hz is slower than 60Hz. The slower the flicker the more obvious it is. 50 is less than 60. Only somebody retarded enough to think PAL is acceptable could fail to understand this.

>>3062902
>Dizzy
Maybe the NES ports run at 60fps. I don't know or care because the Dizzy games are shit.

>>3062901
>thinks some no names make up the majority of developers and publishers
Stop pretending to know what you're talking about, kid.

>>3062915
Do you have a single citation to back up your claim?

>>3062806
No Ultima/Wizardry means no JRPGs. An major branch of gaming was born out of those two series.

>>3062904
You really are an epic baiter. Of course NTSC flickers more. PAL = 50 HZ = 50 flickers per second. NTSC = 60 HZ = 60 flickers per second.

>>3062908
>50hz games have more resolution
Extremely rare even when it's technically possible, which is basically only in 5th gen where most games have shit motion quality anyway so the whole 50Hz vs 60Hz argument hardly matters. 3rd and 4th gen hardware is typically capped at NTSC resolution no matter what. And even if the PAL port really does have higher resolution, it's not worth the trade off in motion quality and flicker.

>>3062919
Are you the same retard demanding citations for time travel being impossible? 60 is greater than 50, that's how numbers work.

>>3062643
>some lazy companies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7h9htbYDss

>>3062916
>no names
I'm fairly sure Sierra adventures and Ultima were almost integral parts of computer gaming in the 80s.

>>3062928
9/10 top kek

>>3062929
>>3062928
The flicker on NTSC is much WORSE not more frequent. Who are you retards? Fucking Americans.

>>3062935
If you are 14 and/or like genre fiction shit.

>>3062945
You must be 18 to use this website.

>>3062928
>>3062929
>>3062940
>Of course NTSC flickers more.
I can't even tell if you Australian or retarded.

>>3062952
Good. Why don't you get off, then, and play your genre fiction simulator.

Wasn't Britain the place that couldn't even afford floppy drives for the longest time and had to use shitty cassettes on their computers?

>>3062956
I'm from Germany. I'm pretty sure it is the middle of the night in Australia.

>>3062961
Germanfag here. They didn't have floppies in the UK for some reason although they were normal in continental Europe. The PC gaming scene here did more closely look like the American stuff with lots of adventures and simulations. Bongs were stuck playing generic bad shmups off their incredibly slow tape drives.

>>3062961
Britain is the country that gave Clive Sinclair a knighthood for making garbage hardware that didn't work, but cheap enough that the poorfags could afford it and pretend it was good.

>>3062961

we had floppy drives, its just that cassettes were cheap and with budget computers like the 2X spectrum easily affordable It just meant that you had a huge library of fun games available at rock bottom prices.

>>3062969
We shared most of the games Britain had and we shared theirs, unless you were in the east. Adventure games are the drizzling shits. They're just genre fiction in interactive form.

>>3062970
Spectrum was poorfag rubbish for people who couldn't afford a C64 or Amstrad. Also ignore this cunt >>3062829. He gives the rest of us a bad image.

>>3062970

garbage hardware that didnt work? my zx spectrum from the 80's still works to this day! Now you wanna talk about garbage hardware that didnt work, lets talk about the xbox 360 and the red rings of death.

>>3062987
You must be underage.

>>3062969
Krauts worship simulations for some reason.

>>3062994
I'm suprised Brits didn't like adventure games as much, they gave us the dog shit that is JRR Tolkien after all.

Most of the traditional American PC game types were not viable in the UK since they required multiload and you're not doing that on cassettes unless you're a masochist.

>>3062621
It depends what console you have, If noticed no difference on PS1, N64 and the Snes

>>3062806
They most certainly did sell those games in Europe including Britain, just not the C64 versions because >implying disk drives. You could however absolutely buy Microprose or whatnot games over here for the Amiga.

>>3063000
They did make some Hobbit game for the C64. Also Douglas Adams helped develop the Infocom Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy although that was an American dev.

>>3062724
They don't?
And with the clock tower, it really has become hard to come by in recent years, especially with english cover.
- OP

>>3062841
En halvalla.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyVSx-IJBZA

Explain this shit, Amerifats.

>>3063090
I don't know exactly why, but for some reason NTSC SID musicians seemed unable to use anything outside the default sound envelopes.

The Japanese PC game stuff was the very worst of all.

>nothing but shit adventure games and dating sims

>implication that C64 had no good US games

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrsZ1bDy4Dg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4M9DmsrMTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7pKxfRiWXk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BembOFhRZ6Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWwyhymcDxI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwoGYF80eiU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyVZghMKrVk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BiMYjVvhxE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hymCz-uFSJU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atEug-jQ9zk

>>3062846
>sample-and-hold display
>not acceptable for gaming

Yah nah pretty sure you're just making an hyperbole out of the sample-and-hold boogeyman, the ghosting on PAL CRTs is almost negligible. Please stop making a fool of your self.

Yuropoor C64 games were created like this.

Lad who's had a couple of pints: "So Chris, you old Scouser. What's our next game going to look like?"

Other lad who's had even more to drink: "Ohohohoh. I know. Let's make a game with an anthro egg! He can be like Indiana Jones, but...an egg!"

"That is bloody glorious! Let's start coding it tomorrow morning!"

Whereas American C64 games were created like this:

(Microprose HQ, Maryland)

Programmer #1: "So this next game will be a flight sim where the player pilots a B-29 Superfortress over the skies of Germany."
Programmer #2: "Very good. Let's go down to the library and check out some books on B-29s."
Programmer #3: "My uncle Ed used to fly one of those in the war. Let's go ask him."

Later...

Sid Meier: "Nononono that sprite is not realistic enough! Go and redo it."
Programmers: "Give us a break, it's an 8-bit computer. The shit is going to look like Lego Blocks either way."
Sid Meier: *death stare*
Programmers: "Yes, boss."

>>3063256
>Yuropoor

Stopped reading there

>>3063176
>the ghosting on PAL CRTs
Unless you consider frame-doubling ghosting a special case of sample-and-hold blur, which is not a standard use of the term, no CRT has sample-and-hold blur. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

>>3062530
Video output hurts me most.

I'll give you the power consumption, and I'll give you the Dreamcast Blue Swirl, but in the end NTSC is just able to produce a better quality image.

That and NTSC games usually have less censorship (though NTSC-U has its share)

In regards to american games for PS1 - Misadventures of tron bonne (and legends 2 demo disc) but you're likely better off getting the JP versions since they're much cheaper. Also the various classic titles one should expect. Tony Hawk Pro Skater series is pretty nice (pro boarder in your area if I recall).

I will say if you're able to pick up a DTL-H1000 (or H1001) you can essentially burn and play whatever you want since no lockout is present. Devstations will play anything just like a Net Yaroze (DTL-H300X) will with the exception of it not needing to be a legitimate disc (Devstation will play fucking anything)
I have a DTL-H1200 and honestly I'm willing to patch roms to play em. Generally it's just a way around having to mod a console but also have a nice collectors item too (also throw in the S-Video out, AV/RCA out, and for some reason DC out) so even then the picture quality can be increased too.

>>3063267
I know what >>3062829's beef with the Apple II is. The color generation on that computer is 100% dependent on NTSC trickery which means it can't work on YuroTVs.

>>3063265
Mine do, it's especially noticeable when stuff moves on a black background. Unless that's not what sample-and-hold is. In which case my 50Hz CRTs do not display noticeable (unless you're specifically looking for it) flickering, ha.

>>3063274
absolutely understandable.

as a guide here's some info on the PS1 dev/debug/retail stations
SCPH - Retail
DTL - Dev

Model number 000X. X represents 4 options for region.
0 - Japan
1 - US
2 - PAL
3 - Asia (non JP units)

There isn't any issue grabbing a DTL-1002 because of the PAL signal issue so that's absolutely fine if you can't get an NTSC display set.

Alternatively you can buy a cheap converter that has switches for NTSC/PAL as that is a thing. Alternatively go the RGB route because that also is an option (Scart may be a nice one, I dont know, I'm an amerifat and never touched that shit) It absolutely can work on it if you have to make it that way

Old pic but hey it's related.

>>3063267
>DTL-H1000 (or H1001) you can essentially burn and play whatever you want since no lockout is present
>wasting such a treasure for playing burned games

Shame on you anon, start debugging your own stuff on that bad boy.

>>3063289
But he still should have been honest about it and not launched into a shitpost fest about how our computer games weren't as good as his autistic arpeggio music shmups.

>>3063284
If you're talking about phosphor decay time persistence, that's a flaw in all CRTs. And even "high persistence" phosphors as used in consumer TVs decay to 10% in about 1ms, which is not enough to hide the flicker. 50Hz flicker is extremely obvious even at 50% duty cycle. If you have enough persistence to hide the blur you have destroyed the motion quality.

>>3062530
>Kula World
Fuck me, I haven't seen that in a decade.

>>3063302
2aesthetic4me

>>3063292
It's virtually useless since I dont have the Parallel I/O Parallel Comm adapter (it's a very rare and expensive dev item for that thing). I COULD use the serial port and all that but I still have no use for it.

That and the likelyhood of me even doing anything I can't already do via emulation or ps3 is somewhat disappointing.

NetYaroze is pretty fucking boner inducing. Matte Black controllers (digital, no sticks) black boot card, boot disc, that serial comm cable for PC connection (100+ USD cable for fucks sake). Fucking monster of a PS1.

That and I have a DTL-H1200 (green) which is region restricted to Japan so i have to patch anything I wish to use and the laser is on it's last rope so I just moved over to the PS3. I want a DTL-H1000 or DTL-H1100 (the slim model but in a blue fat shell and has the power adapter of a slim. it's weird looking).

Apologies for my autism.

>>3063301
>50Hz flicker is extremely obvious even at 50% duty cycle.
See now you're back to this shit again.

Have you tried pills? Lots of conditions can be at least managed these days.

>>3063318
In your case pills actually can help, although they are not a good long term solution. Stimulants actually can speed up your brain to match that of a normal person. Take some amphetamine and you too will see PAL flicker. This is how a normal brain works all the time.

>>3063289
Later revision PS1s SCPH-5XXX to -1XX do in fact feature double color standards just so you're wondering.

>>3063301
Well then I'm happy to say flicker is not an issue on my consumer CRT TVs. Sure, stare too much and everything around you starts wobbling, but during use I can't manage to find any faults.

>>3063331
Oh that's neat. Wasn't actually aware of this.

Probably better in the long run anyway.

>>3063331
>happy to say flicker is not an issue
At least one of the following has to be an issue:
>flicker
>motion quality
>latency
>your brain

You cannot have all four of those good at once. This is a fundamental limitation of the human visual system.

>>3063352
>human visual system

Lol, that's very humble coming from a study of someone who can't literally watch from anybody's perspective but your own. Maybe you just lack the capability to adapt at different flickering rates? I bet you get annoyed at theaters because you can see the film physically rolling into the next frame. Please.

The only time I see stuff flickering is when I'm kinda looking at a CRT with the edge of my vision (my eyes' corners). That's the only moment where my eyes go into videocamera mode with flickering screens. Else it's all perfectly fine.

He's this same deranged fool coming back all the time with his theory about how his brain must be faster than other people when they don't notice the flicker.

>>3063294
I hate fart wave c64 music so much. Delusional yurofags think its so good too. Ocean software were fart masters

>>3063452
>Ocean software were fart masters
Ocean had some of the better SID music I've ever heard. Platoon and Robocop have god-level soundtracks. Yet I can think of a lot of European-developed C64 games with awful ear-bleed music, eg, Giana Sisters and most of the Dizzy series.

>>3063294
Or shit on CRPGs. Ultima had a huge impact on US and eventually Japanese gaming. He's falling for the "I don't like it therefore it sucks." canard.

>>3063460
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFgXGw_kXpc
I hate that bleep bleep shit with fart waves in the background. I do like sid music like the rtype soundtrack is god tier but I just cant stand ocean shit.

>>3063472
Not the title screen, the in-game music. This is one of my top ten SID tunes of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbMfCpD8gk4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvnRjAJMklE

This is an example of ear-grating SID music. I don't like it at all.

>>3063472
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bft5BhWIzTU

R-Type isn't bad but it's nothing special.

>>3063472
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gggp9JkY1Pk

What the fuck did you guys do to Bubble Bobble!? My ears!

>>3063519
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij3f4_APEow

NES version is perfection.

>>3063520

>>3063524
Compared with that C64 fart wave stuff, yes.

>>3063524
>hating nice simple square waves

>>3062530
it's a meme made up by reseller to get you to pay for ntsc meme

>>3062787
Fuck off, Australia-kun.

the difference in flicker between 50 / 60 Hz doesn't make a big difference unless you sit close to the screen

source: i extensively tested my tv in pal50 and pal60

Yes PAL is terrible. I've replaced all my PAL games with NTSC. Not only does the game run slower, the black bars makes some games ugly as hell on a smaller CRT.

NTSC games (not counting shipping) are usually way cheaper too.

>>3064463
That PAL shot is bogus, SMW has an extra 15 vertical pixels so that the black bars aren't as intrusive.

>NTSC games (not counting shipping) are usually way cheaper too

haha

Can I please see your tiny Finnish dick?

>>3064501
It's the aspect ratio that makes it look worse.

What about Scart /vr/? Dose that make pal games look any better on HDTV'S ?

>>3064528
>Dose that make pal games look any better on HDTV'S ?

Just about as NTSC games, but the HDTV is at fault here, for being an LCD screen with less than optimal internal upscaler and compatibility issues with RGBs.

It's not as horrible as everybody on /vr/ likes to make it out to be.

NTSC consoles are better in most situations but you shouldn't worry too much if you have PAL stuff.

>>3064528
"SCART" is usually slang for "RGB SCART", which has perfect color just like any RGB connection, but it can do nothing to solve the problem of 50Hz refresh rate.

>>3063267
NTSC gives a better image? It wasn't nicknamed "Never Twice the Same Colour" for no reason. Its awful.

>>3065350
Some nickname euroshits had to make up to feel better about their inferior format. Literally not a problem once svideo came out and yes Svideo color definition is superior to PAL you fucking retard

Look up 25fps Sonic the Hedgehog.

When Sonic Team designed Sonic the Hedgehog they didn't design it to be played at 25fps with slowed down music.

I always view PAL is not playing the game as it was actually designed to be played.

Another good example is how in PAL Super Mario World, Mario runs faster than in NTSC because they increased his movement speed to accomodate for the frame rate difference. Therefore Mario can make jumps in PAL he can't in NTSC. The game wasn't designed for Mario to make those jumps.

NTSC isn't necessarily better but it's how the games were designed to be played.

If a game was PAL only then fair enough because it was designed to be played that way.

>>3065350
This stopped being true after about 1971.

>>3065363
>Svideo color definition
>NTSC is superior because S-video
What is PAL over S-video?
What is RGB over SCART? (Generally available in Europe even before S-video was a thing, heck before our TVs even used to have cinch inputs)

>>3065373
This post.
/thread

>>3065350
Nobody who cares about this actually uses NTSC color encoding. By "NTSC", we mean "240p60 RGB", which has perfect color like anything over RGB.

Another Finnfag here.
I highly suggest 60 Hz over 50 due to the flicker 50 introduces, in addition to making some already games play painfully slow (like Ys on the SMS). Being a PALfag has its benefits. We have CRTs with 50/60hz versatility and SCART slots and cords as standard, and coupled with a US system that's a perfect combination.

PAl was supposedly preferred by the C64 demo scene because of the bigger border area giving you more clock cycles during the VBLANK.

What happens if you play an NTSC console on a PAL TV?

Also what's the best method for being PAl and wanting to play imported SNES games? Modded SNES?

>>3067284
Depends on the TV. If the CRT supports 60hz then it will play like on any US TV.

The best method is importing an american SNES. It's easier to modify a US SNES for jap Super Famicom games than vice versa. Also modifying a PAL SNES is unnecessary difficult, requiring soldering. The SNES is a very easy console since it has RGB built-in in every region; you shouldn't need to solder anything.

>>3062557
Darius 2 and Keio 2?

>>3062557
>few games are made for it
You mean, exclusively?

>>3068854
Funny enough games like Shadow of the Beast and Truxton on Mega Drive ran at the right speed at 50hz.