/vr/ - Retro Games

>it's retro

Good enough 2 me

>>3043018
The console was doing great at first, it was the PlayStation 2 that killed it.

>>3043018
Dreamcast was also released in 1998.

PS2 came out two years later, Xbox and Gamecube three years. Of course they're gonna be the more powerful consoles.

The TG16 had trouble competing with the SNES and Genesis for the same reason, because it was designed to compete with the previous generation of consoles.

>>3043030
gta 3 was going to be released for the Dreamcast and half-life too. Both were cancelled because of the console going under

>>3043038
>GTA 3
>Dreamcast

Stop dreaming, the reason the cube version was cancelled was due to lack of ram, the DC had leas ram than the cube. Herp de derp

>>3043030
Genesis was released closer to the TG16 than the SNES was.

Genesis hardware was weird since it follows an older design paradigm (FM sound, low color depth) but it has a blazingly fast CPU.

Dreamcast is a bit like that too. It has a render fill rate capability closer to 6th gen consoles (about 8x over the N64), but its polygon transform and lighting veers closer towards 5th gen (about 3x over the N64).

>>3043067
gamecube has more RAM than PS2 though, though it is divided into fast/slow pools

>>3043067
I thought the Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2? I'm fairly certain it had more RAM.

I think it was more of a demographics issue.

Not retro.

>>3043092
>thread about DC
>not retro
Stop /vr/, please

>>3043075
>older design paradigm (FM sound, low color depth)

huh..

>>3043094
The thread is about 6th gen not DC.

Not retro

>>3043098
>"BAAAAAAAWWWWWW TALKING BAD ABOUT MY LOVELY DC IS NOT RETRO"
Stop, really..

>>3043102
You can hate on the DC all you want. Do it outside of talking about 6th generation.

>>3043104
We discuss the DC
It's impossible not mentioning the others console
don't wanna?
Then DC is not retro

>>3043107
>It's impossible not mentioning the others console
Not true.

The DC is an exception to the rules. An exception doesn't mean that the whole 6th generation is now allowed.

Allow Gen 6 they said, it will bring fresh quality discussions they said.

Gaming was dead by then anyway. The N64 generation destroyed gaming.

Which is why /vr/ should be pre-1995.

I really hope one day millennials will understand this basic truth about gaming. They were so brainwashed by the fucking mid-90s casual gaming push as an excuse to make subpar games with style-over-substance bullshit to rake in more money, though, so it'll probably never happen.

Your homework tonight, kids: realize that Mario 64 was garbage.

>>3043125
I got to give you credit for at least sticking to mostly the shit threads.

>>3043018
It has tons of good games though and one of the most active console homebrew scenes. Being the last Sega console also means a lot to people who really believed in them.

>>3043018
Who cares what it looks like? And it handled 3D and 2D fine, it was the Saturn that was crap at one of those.

I do agree with you on the controller though, it's a pile of shit.

>>3043107
Why is it impossible? You can talk about DC fine without mentioning the others.

Why can't you understand that the cutoff is not decided on 'console generation' but on console release date?

>>3043090
PS2 has 32mb, GameCube had 24mb, although it did have an extra pool of ram but it was slow and used exclusively for audio

>>3043125
>shitty opinion backed up by outright lies
I bet you wrote that caption yourself. And that straight line shit? What, do you have cerebral palsy or Parkinson's or something?

>>3043125

Make it pre-1994, PS1 also sucks.

>>3043038
There also was Halo, but that got canned because of Microsoft buying Bungie.

>>3043423

The cube was still overall the console with more graphical fidelity and youre lying to yourself if you believe otherwise. Not having an overrated OPEN WORLD game like GTA3 is not indicative of its strength as GTA3 is probably single handedly the game that causes,the bullshit sandbox trend that devs have been recycling over and over instead of making traditional games with good level design.

Resident Evil 4 looked and ran better. Sonoc Heroes looked and ran better. The list goes on and on and on.

>>3043423
the slow pool of RAM on GCN was also used like swap space since it was faster to pull bits from it than from DVD

supposedly it was a bit annoying to manage, and some lazy developers when porting to GCN just compressed what fit in PS2's 32 MB down into the GCN's 24 MB fast RAM

>>3043125

Uh you can run in a straight line in mario 64 that is an absolute lie

Mario 64 was the first game to give you THAT much control over your character. I can do some sweet shit in that game and you cant destroy its legacy as much as you pathetically wish to.

How did this board become infested with shitposting lying fucktards?

This thread was just an excuse to get a 6th gen thread on the board. Hidden.

>>3043460

it's an old bait picture

>>3043460
>>3043436
>>3043445
That copy pasta always roots out the /v/ kids. It's an old as bait post, kids.

>>3043451
Gamecube's GPU has a lot of image quality advantages over PS2's GPU, particularly in texturing. The Gamecube was particularly good at texturing because it had a texture unit which was like a prototype of what was used on the excellent ATi R300 / Radeon 9700 Pro - a special 'loopback' feature which allows one texture pipeline to address 8 textures in a single pass. This also gave the Gamecube's fixed shader (TEV) a theoretical advantage over the GF3/4 when it came to using integrating textures into shader stages.

But the Gamecube was undoubtedly weaker compared to the PS2 when it came to pure SIMD (vertex lighting, physics, etc). This is because the T&L unit inside of Gamecube's GPU is very fixed and function limited compared to PS2's Emotion Engine.

not really retro info tho

>>3043451
>Not having an overrated OPEN WORLD game like GTA3 is not indicative of its strength as GTA3 is probably single handedly the game that causes,the bullshit sandbox trend that devs have been recycling over and over instead of making traditional games with good level design. Resident Evil 4 looked and ran better. Sonoc Heroes looked and ran better. The list goes on and on and on.

Getting a bit emotional now aren't we Anon?

The OG xbox was like the dreamcast 1.5, Sega could have lived but people didn't care about any xbox game that wasn't halo, that may be the reason they became such cancer on this industry.

>>3043482
It was SEGA's last breath. The SEGA games on the console weren't particularity amazing. JSRF was probably the standout but even that is not in the top 10 of SEGA games. At least for me.

Most of 6th gen is just mediocre trash.

>>3043125
Gen 5 was when the trouble started but I'd say the PS2 outright killed it. It's funny how even the newer 2D Mario games outsell the 3D ones like crazy, you'd think Nintendo would take the hint but they're obsessed with 3D for some reason.

>>3043090
PS2 was less powerful of GC. For example the PS2 port of resident evil 4 had all the cutscenes rendered as FMVs, because the PS2 couldn't handle them in real time like the GC did.

>>3043486
I disagree. I thought they were great games.

>>3043480

Emotional? What?

Im just calling it like it is.

>>3043490
>Gen 5 was when the trouble started
I see this /v/ opinion a lot. Generally the only time it gets supported is some idiot blabbering about PS1. Maybe you can support that claim better?

>>3043451
There's nothing wrong with open world, Rockstar scored by making it actually fun. Saying open world is shit just because devs couldn't make it good it's like saying doom is shit just because there are a lot of doom clones.

>>3043486
6th gen was the last good gen though, early 7th gen was mediocre as hell and it went from bad to worse later so i think it's unfair to say 6th gen was bad.

>>3043486
>JSRF was probably the standout
Panzer Dragoon Orta kills JSRF.

>>3043494
>Im just calling it like it is.
Sure you are.

>>3043492
>because the PS2 couldn't handle them in real time like the GC did
i'd argue that was more because it was a rushed port of a former exclusive

>>3043493
>>3043497
>I disagree. I thought they were great games.
Orta is a great example. That game was all eye candy and not much substance. The prior games are far superior.

>>3043496
>6th gen was the last good gen though
Ya no. That gen was trash. 480i and blurr filters as far as the eye can see. QTE, paywals, the dude bro console FPS, etc. That was the gen that made me give up on console games.

This is just a small glimpse of what allowing 6th gen on /vr/ would be like. pseudo-techno babble about which 6th gen console was the best.

Are you ready for PS2 vs Gamecube 24/7, /vr/?

>>3043482
>The SEGA games on the console weren't particularity amazing

Panzer Dragoon Orta was pretty fucking amazing, and Crazy Taxi 3 was loads of fun even if it was just more of the same.

>Most of 6th gen is just mediocre trash.

So is every other gen, you just don't remember because you only have fond memories of the handful of AAA titles you had, and you don't bother looking into what 6th gen has. I'm the same with current generation titles - can't be arsed to look into what great titles they have cause I only see the junk and I have tons of great games on the earlier systems anyway.

>>3043507
>The prior games are far superior.
No. This is one case where the sequel outdoes the original. I'm a Saturn fan, but the old Panzer Dragoon games were always just blah to me. Not bad games, but not something I go back to.

Orta, on the other hand, was very engaging and I played through it multiple times.

>>3043514
not like snes vs genesis is much better

>>3043030
Dreamcast was released 9/9/99

>>3043507
480i and blur filters is good. 480 has more resolution than pixelated 320p. Blur filters is also good to make it more realistic. I also apply blur filters to ps1 and n64 games to make them look more smooth. You can spot oldfags easily the way are arguing is unique and outdated. It's kinda prehistoric this place, so I value it being here.

>>3043507
>480i and blurr filters as far as the eye can see
Something introduced in the 5th Gen

>QTE
Dragon's Lair and Space Ace

>paywals
Satellaview and Sega Channel

>the dude bro console FPS
Goldeneye, Turok etc.

Some of these concepts were introduced earlier than what you believe anon. Albeit in a smaller fashion, but still..

>>3043514
>This is just a small glimpse of what allowing 6th gen on /vr/ would be like. pseudo-techno babble about which 6th gen console was the best.
We already have pseudo technobabble about which console of any prior gen is the best anyways, so no skin off my bones!

>>3043495
It's pretty simple, 3D. 3D games are harder to make with tight controls and often have to rely on "cinematic" shit or novelty value rather than raw gameplay to sell. There are exceptions obviously, F-Zero X and GX are really tight 3D games, but the majority aren't. Also note I said that's when the trouble started, it didn't get really bad until this gen when there's literally nothing but really shitty 3D games and a few faux-retro indie 2D games on the market.

>>3043529
Cinematics is why I fell in love with gaming. Cinematics is the reason why I game. My favourite Cinematics are in Final fantasy games.

>>3043507
>QTE
>the dude bro console FPS

That's not true for most of 6th gen games though, i remember people used to play more sports games than shooters, and QTEs were the exception not the rule.

>>3043507
>saying dude bro in 2016
kek

>>3043524
In the US, yeah. In Japan, the Dreamcast came out on 11/27/98.

>>3043502

Keep being delusional. If the ps2 is so much more powerful than the cube than why do sonic heroes and re4 run like shit? Why do most ps2 games look worse?

>>3043507
>>3043520
>No. This is one case where the sequel outdoes the original.
Stop.
It's a completely different team that made the game. They went and trash canned the original story to make their own.

The gameplay is like some Starfox/Saga hybrid thing. The camera is fucking retarded to say the least.
>>3043517
>So is every other gen, you just don't remember because you only have fond memories of the handful of AAA titles you had
Oh please. This shit gets thrown around so much.

Listen dumbass. I know retro isn't all great. You know what retro doesn't have? Absolute fucking trash like Halo being a top selling game of the gen? Oh wait. Never mind. Halo and fucking Halo 2.

6th gen is when games went to shit.

>>3043523
>>3043528

>We already have pseudo technobabble about which console of any prior gen is the best anyways

Right, 6th gen would only bring more of that, and in bigger quantities because the 4chan demographic has more people that actually has childhood nostalgia for 6th gen, rather than 4th gen, so the wars will be even bigger and more passionate.

/vr/ will just be PS2 vs Gamecube central if 6th gen ever gets allowed.

>>3043528
Your whole post is full retard and incorrect but
>Turok
>dude bro
Made me laugh.

>>3043507
>QTE, paywals, the dude bro console FPS, etc.

PS2 had none of that.

Well, no, it had QTE, but so did games on any other console, and a game can still be great despite having QTE. Picture related.

>>3043549
>Your whole post is full retard and incorrect but
Then provide actual arguments as to how it is.

>>3043528
don't know what is so dudebro about bond and dinosaurs

>>3043553
Well for one you think just because something was invented that it was successful or important/inspiring. That alone is comical.

Complete ignorance of display resolutions too.

>>3043551

That isn't QTE, it's called pummeling.

PS2 does have QTE/movie games though. Farenheit.

>>3043551

>>3043561
frogger and crash aren't so bad, but starting with the PS2... fuck

>>3043570
That's where modern gaming started. 6th generation. That's where video games died.

>>3043547
>You know what retro doesn't have? Absolute fucking trash like Halo being a top selling game of the gen? Oh wait. Never mind. Halo and fucking Halo 2.

It had Mortal Kombat 1-2 and Tekken 2-3, which were similar in that they were huge selling and all the edgy douchebags played it. Goldeneye too.

And you conveniently ignore all the other good games on the gen just because it has games that college fags played.

Basically all you are saying is "stop liking what I don't like".

>>3043582
>bitching about arcade games
Here we go...
>And you conveniently ignore all the other good games on the gen just because it has games that college fags played.

No I'm not ignoring anything. I'm looking at the generation defining games. Not even the console defining games. The generation defining games of 6th generation are fucking horrible.

Please give me any remotely competent augment about how modern gaming is still good. I'd love to lough my ass off.

>>3043561
It must be sad to live in North America if they only got five games for each Playstation.

Stop acting like those are all the games that exist.

>>3043593
They are what defined the console. Some defined the generation.

>>3043590
>>3043594
>The generation defining games of 6th generation are fucking horrible.
>They are what defined the console. Some defined the generation.

WHO GIVES A SHIT.

You should be playing games YOU like, not the ones that defined the genre.

If a console generation has many games you like, then it was a good generation. That's all that matters, not the games they advertise on fucking superbowl.

>>3043598
>You should be playing games YOU like, not the ones that defined the genre.

Sorry, kid. I don't live under a rock or throw up blinders to a shit fucking gen and still call it good because I like some obscure game.

Modern games are not good.

>>3043423
eh... the gamecube has 40mb ram. It's far more powerful than the PS2 and it shows in nearly every game that's on both. The gamecube is 486mhz power pc (much faster equivalent architecture than x86), while the PS2 is only 300mhz. There is no contest.

>>3043615
>Modern games are not good.

>>3043598
You clearly don't understand. If a system has games that I don't personally like then it must suck. Obviously. Duh.

>>3043615
Well if you wanna label 1000s of games as not good, that's your business. Personally I belive in playing games for yourself but eh, maybe all modern games suck.

>>3043125
Gotta love those early 2000s "mature games for mature players" reviews

>>3043598
I partially agree with this, in that I was buying games right up until the Wii died, but the other anon is also right in that the really bad market trends took hold around then.

>>3043018
Dreamcast might be the best out of the 4. They're all brilliant though except for the Xbox, which is ok-ish. It's not bad.

>>3043625
>>3043624
>>3043598
Can you kids possibly act more hipster? You’re saying don’t play the popular games because they’re too popular and shit because of it. Just fuck off back to /v/.

The modern consoles are trash as a whole. Great you found some obscure titles that’s probably aren’t on the top 50 most sold. Good for you. You enjoy. Don’t go saying that because you can play random unpopular titles that modern games are good. That’s exactly what these games are. Random unpopular games. I really don’t get the logic of how that makes modern gaming good. I really don’t.

What is popular today is shit. CoD, Halo, and all the other cancer. That is modern gaming. Also DLC, online paywalls, pre order bullshit, and games being released broke. Stuff you guys seem to have your blinders set to ignore for.

And don’t start with PC. That is console port mecca these days. Nintendo has been pretty well off minus the waggle shit gen though.

>>3043629
>Gotta love those early 2000s "mature games for mature players" reviews

To be honest, Mario 64 is mediocre today mostly because every Disney game is a platformer just like it, except with more modern conventions. A big part of Mario 64s success was the fact that it introduced a new concept that console players were yet unfamiliar to.

You might as well compare Starfox to Panzer Dragoon Orta or Dune 2 to StarCraft 2.

>>3043621
Uhh well you can't just compare clock speed like that. You yourself have acknowledged in your own post that PowerPC has better IPC than your typical x86 processor. The MIPS CPU in the PS2 also has very good IPC.

But the thing is that there are big architectural differences between PS2 and Gamecube CPU. The PS2's CPU alao contains a fully fledged FPU co-processor and TWO vector units, while the Gamecube's includes a 'paired single' FPU of relatively little value. Sure the Gamecube's CPU is an integer winner, but it loses when it comes to FP / SIMD.

Gamecube's advantages don't lie in these departments. It wins over PS2 due to its much more efficient pixel / texel fill pipeline.

>>3043643
No, Mario 64 is mediocre because it has poor controls and a fucking terrible camera.

Just because it introduced the world to shitty 3d platformers doesn't make it good.

>>3043641
I play plenty of popular games. Nintendo games are popular, we'd agree on that, right? Gamecube games are getting rereleased on Wii U, so they must be popular.

PS2 games are pretty popular, like Ratchet & Clank or Jak and Daxter. The Devil May Cry series got started then as well, we all know how big that got.

Original Xbox is a system that ACTUALLY has hidden gems, and obviously the great Sega games. JSRF was a pack in title for some systems and that's still really popular. I personaly don't like Halo but Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive, and MechAssault I all quite enjoy.

Modern games are good because not every game is like that. If I'm playing a game and having fun well shit that's enough for me.

If you wanna talk MODERN modern, like PS3/360 and ever since, there's still a shit ton of good stuff to play. Especially with PS3 being so import friendly and everything getting a 360 version. Downloadable games have opened up the market for great re-releases of classics and independent games that might not have been made otherwise.

Is there a lot of bad business from giant publishers? Sure, you don't have to support what you don't like, but you can't act like EVERYTHING is like that. It's just not.

The Dreamcast is able to play burned discs without having to modify the console. I guess that was one of the reasons why the dreamcast didn't do so well sales wise.

But on the other hand, thanks to having no copy protection, the Dreamcast has (as already mentioned) a big hombrew scene.

Btw. op is a dork

>>3043656

get good, 6th genner.

>>3043646
>Uhh well you can't just compare clock speed like that. You yourself have acknowledged in your own post that PowerPC has better IPC than your typical x86 processor. The MIPS CPU in the PS2 also has very good IPC.

uhh well fuck off. You're the one who started comparing specs. The gamecube is more powerful period.

I don't give a shit about circle jerking around here man, the gamecube is a more powerful console than the PS2 period.

What the fuck, you think googling a load of shit makes you smart and right? For a console that is obviously behind another in technology, but utilized better because it had a bigger market and was worked on more? Just fucking kill yourself.

>>3043665
First genner, actually, kid.

Pong was my childhood and good gaming was my adolescence and early adulthood.

Then Mario 64 and the rest of the garbage came along in the mid-90s fueled by greedy fucking gaming companies that wanted to be lazy and concentrate more on style over substance to attract idiots.

You, dumb millennials, are the result of that.

Thanks for falling for all that garbage, thinking Mario 64 was anything but crap, and ruining gaming completely.

Idiots.

>>3043641
>Can you kids possibly act more hipster? You’re saying don’t play the popular games because they’re too popular and shit because of it. Just fuck off back to /v/.

No, I'm saying that I concentrate on the good games I like to play, not what the sheep plays.

If you want to keep screaming GAMES ARE SHIT because the top selling game isn't Super Mario anymore, then more power to you.

I don't give a shit cause I'm too busy playing Ikaruga, Katamari, Disgaea, Tron 2.0, God Hand, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Dark Corners of the Earth, Lost Planet, Prototype, Kane's Wrath, Dawn of War 2, Grey Goo, Skullgirls, MK9, Ryse: Son of Rome, etc (I believe these were my faves from the past 14 years).

Yeah I know, those are all obscure as fuck, you might never heard of them since none of them are Call of Duty DLCs.

>>3043657
My blinders aren't nearly as thick as yours.

I never liked much PS2 games. SotC was the standout for me.

Modern games just aren't very good.

Also why do people bring up the PS2 platformers all the fucking time? They aren't very good. Xbox and GC had the best of the gen for that genre. Blinx, Psychonauts, Billy Hatcher, Sunshine, etc. Still much prefer the prior gen platforms though. But those games are pretty good. Nothing super special.

>>3043657
Halo CE was pretty fucking awesome for the record, it was the sequels that dropped the ball. But what do I know, I only played the ones on PC and read the first 4 or so books.

Which of these four consoles have more games rated E for everyone by the ESRB?


http://www.bubbleguminteractive.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/ESRB_ORN.jpg

>>3043680
That's a whole big pile of mediocre shit you got there.

>>3043684
>Halo CE was pretty fucking awesome
Opinion automatically invalid.

[offtopic]Halo was dull, boring, and very derivative of everything that came before it. Yet another style-over-substance shit game for the millennials viral marketed into garbage gaming that continues even today.
[/offtopic]

>>3043678

Post proof (probably by posting a picture of your wrinkled hand and a time stamp will suffice, grandpa)

>>3043683
>I never liked much PS2 games.

You are missing out, man. On top of shitload of exclusives, it also had tons of old games remade or with a sequel.

There's a game on it that has Solid Snake, Bomberman, Master Higgins, and Optimus Prime slug it out Smash Bros style.

Also Soul Calibur 2-3, Virtua Fighter 2 and 4, but if you want you can also play Thunder Force VI or Nights on it.

>>3043687

>>3043656
>Just because it introduced the world to shitty 3d platformers doesn't make it good.

This is a nice theory for someone who's never played games, I mean it makes sense right? But the thing is it just doesn't stand up to reality. It's almost like having a world class tier team of developers counts for something rather than some bunch of clown hipsters out of design college that couldn't make it with the better game companies.

>>3043678
>fueled by greedy fucking gaming companies that wanted to be lazy and concentrate more on style over substance to attract idiots.
>implying that wasn't always the case, especially with vidya

>>3043698
>There's a game on it that has Solid Snake, Bomberman, Master Higgins, and Optimus Prime slug it out Smash Bros style.

That one is also on Gamecube with a bit better performance.

>>3043701
I only play video games rated E for everyone by the ESRB.


and just I want to know which of those 4 consoles has more games rated E for everyone by the ESRB?

>>3043690
>That's a whole big pile of mediocre shit you got there.

Yeah, like I said, none of them are Call of Duty so obviously they are all mediocre shit that nobody enjoys.

>>3043693
>Opinion automatically invalid.

Confirmed to not have played it. The first Halo game was good. It was also pretty oldschool, since it did not have regenerating health, only regenerating shield.

It was Halo 2 and onwards that dropped the ball and failed to live up to the hype.

The rest I did not play.

>Yet another style-over-substance shit game

How would you measure substance in a game anyway?

>>3043698
I had over 80 games at one time for it. It's just not very good,. The games look like shit and really the only games that actually made me want to keep it was SotC.

PS2 was a big part in me going exclusively to PC gaming in the early 2000s.

Really the biggest disappointments on PS2 were the RPGs and platformers. Yet to play anything better than the height of RPGs in the 4th and 5th generations. That one shin megami tensei game on PS2 was probably the best. Still wasn't anything I'd say better than prior gens.
The platformers on PS2 just all ran like shit.

>>3043641
We are talking about 6th gen here, DLC, online paywalls, pre order bullshit, and games being released broke on purpose are more recent stuff.

If you think it's PS2 fault that the industry is like that that's fine, but there are a lot of people who can enjoy PS2, gamecube and Xbox games just fine since while it may have started some of the bullshit publishers do today, the games themselves are free from every reason you dislike modern gaming, you just insert a disc and you play. No need to install data, download patch or any online shit that wastes your time (unless you played a console MMO, but that's a rare case).

>>3043708
Gamecube did not have God Hand, pendejo.

>>3043720
>We are talking about 6th gen here, DLC, online paywalls, pre order bullshit, and games being released broke on purpose are more recent stuff.

All that started in 6th gen.

I love how this gets posted constantly in these threads. You kids have the thickest blinders I've ever seen.

>>3043717
PS2 has thousands of games. Just cause you couldn't find the ones you liked the most does not mean it is shit.

I mean I come from being a hardcore 90s Sega fan who went to PC at the turn of the millennium, I consider Sony the worst corporation on the world, and I hate the PS1-2 with burning passion for killing Sega, but I still have to say that the PS2 is objectively the console with the best lineup of games to this day (and remember, it is PS1 compatible).

>>3043725

What games on PS2/gamecube/xbox have DLC or online paywalls?

>>3043728
>for killing Sega
But anon, Sega killed themselves.

>>3043725
Actually, that started with capcom making 1000 versions of the same game in the 90's

>>3043615
>Sorry, kid. I don't live under a rock
Best joke I've read today. You are on /vr/. You definitely live under a rock.

>>3043728
See I don't get this opinion. The majority of PS2 games ran like shit. I'm not saying that because it was limited by tech. They weren't. They ran like shit.

XBox and GC had a shitload of games that ran 480p at 60 fps. PS2 it was rare. On top of nearly every PS2 game having a fucking blur filter.

Why the fuck this is ignored is beyond me. It was a pretty huge thing for me.

I spent soo much fucking money on the PS2. I was naive. Kept thinking it would be better. Kept buying all the hyped up games. It never got better.

>>3043720
>We are talking about 6th gen here, DLC, online paywalls, pre order bullshit, and games being released broke on purpose are more recent stuff.

All of those became commonplace in the 7th and 8th gen, not the 6th.

I mean, name a PS2 or Dreamcast game that had all of those. You can't.

The only thing out of all of those that 6th gen started was Xbox Live, and honestly it was Sega who pioneered it on the Dreamcast and Saturn.

>>3043728
>but I still have to say that the PS2 is objectively the console with the best lineup of games
Get out.

>>3043730
Halo 2
DC had some games also.

>>3043732
>But anon, Sega killed themselves.

That is more obvious now, but back in the 90s it wasn't.

>>3043737
>Why the fuck this is ignored is beyond me. It was a pretty huge thing for me.

It can easily be ignored if you stop circlejerking on comparison pictures and start playing games.

Yeah, PS2 games looked like shit. That don't mean they suddenly stopped being fun.

>>3043738
>trying to dump online paywall shit on SEGA

Ya ok kid.
XBox Live and Halo 2 was huge. 6th gen is where all that cancer started.

>>3043743
>trying to dump online paywall shit on SEGA

Sega Channel motherfucker.

>>3043737
Then you shouldn't have played multiplatform games.

Jak 2 runs at 60fps. Mario Sunshine is 30fps, Wind Waker is 30fps, etc.

>>3043742
They better have some of the most genre defining, creative, innovative and just plain fun gameplay of all time. You know given that they are objectively made like and run like shit.

They don't though.

>>3043738
I meant exactly that, all that shit started way later, this is the last gen where every game is just

>insert disc
>play

like i said before the games themselves are free from every reason >>3043641 has to dislike modern gaming

>>3043746
>Jak 2 runs at 60fps.
That game has soo many fps drops along with it running at 480i and a blur filter.

FUCKING LOL. Are you serious retard? That's the last fucking game to be an example of a PS2 game that runs well.

>>3043743
Sega had HARDWARE DLC released. Twice.

>>3043747
>They better have some of the most genre defining, creative, innovative and just plain fun gameplay of all time.
Which Nintendo's GC-era games lacked?

>>3043747
>the most genre defining, creative, innovative and just plain fun gameplay of all time

Katamari and Ookami comes to mind.

>>3043546
>If the ps2 is so much more powerful than the cube than why do sonic heroes and re4 run like shit? Why do most ps2 games look worse?

>>3043754
>>3043758
>Katamari
HOLY SHIT ROLL A FUCKING BALL OF SHIT AROUND.

GROUND BREAKING!!!!!!!!!

WHOA! FUCKING PLANETS@!@!@!@ wow

>>3043759

>>3043067

Ps2 doesn't even have texture compression.

>>3043767
If by no compression you mean no support for the proprietary S3TC algorithm, then yes, you'd be right.

However, it does support VQ texture compression, although it took several years for the appropriate method to be developed on PS2.

The PS2 was the weakest in terms of hardware, that's a fact. It was also the weakest in terms of library compared to any of the other 3, because Sony isn't a developer themselves. Most of the Sega ports/new games went to MS and Nintendo when they left hardware.

>>3043759
>>3043764
yaaas drag ha! #scalped

>>3043771
The PS2 is the best selling and most popular console of all time. If you repeat your claims long enough maybe you will believe them one day. Until then good luck.

>>3043721
Uh... I wasn't talking about God Hand, I was talking about DreamMix TV World Fighters, 6thgenner console warrior-kun.

>>3043763
It was a fun and original game, that's all that really matters.

>>3043771
>It was also the weakest in terms of library compared to any of the other 3

It had something like 85% marketshare due to its library, so it obviously was not the weakest.

Hell the Xbox was the butt end of jokes because it had almost no good games on it, and the Gamecube had so little beyond generic Nintendo crap (it started getting generic Sonic Team crap on top, which was honestly just a step back).

>>3043806
Nice failure of comprehension there Atariman. What I said was that, even though GC had Dreammix TV with two better looking pixels on it (that don't fucking matter), it did NOT have God Hand, which alone spanks the majority of the GC library.

>>3043769

There's a lot of classic games that came out before 03-04 when devs started putting in their workarounds for texture compression.

Anyways, having hardware support for texture compression makes a huge difference in a game like GTA3. And it was running on a DC dev kit to begin with.

>>3043810
>Nice failure of comprehension there Atariman. What I said was that, even though GC had Dreammix TV with two better looking pixels on it (that don't fucking matter), it did NOT have God Hand, which alone spanks the majority of the GC library.

How was I supposed to comprehend anything when you jumped out of the blue with another game, when I wasn't even talking about God Hand?

I love God Hand, by the way. Unlike you, I wasn't a little kid when 6th gen was new so I could afford all the systems/games I wanted.

By your logic, neither the Gamecube or the PS2 are worth a shit, N64 has Sin and Punishment therefore it makes the whole PS2 and GC, hell, the whole 6th gen completely obsolete!

>>3043810
>F Zero GX
>Nintendo crap
So these are the people praising PS2 garbage so highly.

>>3043125
Trying this hard to be "le bad guy meme with le negative underrated meme opinion"

>>3043802
>The PS2 is the best selling and most popular console of all time
Because it was a DVD player. Also that isn't necessarily a good thing, see >>3043561
>>3043810
>It had something like 85% marketshare due to its DVD player
Fixed, but yeah it also had shit like GTA and captured the casual market. That doesn't translate into good games unfortunately, though there were a few just by virtue of how huge its library was.
>Hell the Xbox was the butt end of jokes because it had almost no good games on it, and the Gamecube had so little beyond generic Nintendo crap (it started getting generic Sonic Team crap on top, which was honestly just a step back)
Confirmed for idiot.

>>3043810

This post is a nice taste of what zealous 6th genners would be like on /vr/.

Console warriors, shitting on Atari or any older systems, uneducated, brute, fanboys to the max.

I do not want 6th gen on /vr/.

Not saying we already don't have dumb people on this board, 4th and 5th gen get a lot of console warring shit, but 6th gen would be the piece of turd that hits the fan the worst and splatters all over this board, burying into endless shit.

>>3043813
I'm unsuprised considering Dreamcast did get GTA2 ported over.

DMA Design just correctly anticipated that Dreamcast would be kill by the time of release in late 2001.

PS2 isn't bad hardware. It's really powerful considering its release in early 2000. The problem is that the entire console is designed around developers crafting their rendering from top to bottom instead of relying on built in functionality like pixel shading units. N64 was designed in a fairly similar way to the PS2 with its reliance on microcode.

The thing is that ArtX, who designed the Gamecube's GPU (and also designed N64's GPU before they left Silicon Graphics) is that they learned the lesson that developers are lazy as hell and it's usually better if you design the hardware to be as easy as possible. Hence Gamecube already had all the useful functions built into the GPU.

The only downside is that the Gamecube got comparatively weaker over time since there was very little that could be done to optimize it. Criterion didn't develop Burnout 3 for the console because the hardware wasn't flexible enough to process the kinds of physics/collision/dynamic deforming meshes that they wanted for that game.

>>3043826
>Fixed, but yeah it also had shit like GTA and captured the casual market
>the casual market

Who confirming who for an idiot here? Even during the PS2 days, there was only one market - people who play video games. Have the last five years totally removed all your memory of what gaming was like in the 2000s or were you never around for them in the first place?

>Hell the Xbox was the butt end of jokes because it had almost no good games on it, and the Gamecube had so little beyond generic Nintendo crap (it started getting generic Sonic Team crap on top, which was honestly just a step back)

This is actually true. I mean, the Xbox division has made Microsoft absolutely no money in terms of profit even to this day, but it got put in a massive, MASSIVE hole by the OG Xbox. They only halfway climbed out of it with the 360s successes and they've pretty much pissed half of that away with the Xbone in one-fifth of the time it took to even accomplish that.

There's a reason during the campaign for Microsoft CEO, 5 of the 7 candidates made "axe/sell Xbox" as part of their platform.

>>3043826
>Also that isn't necessarily a good thing
It is. And it destroys all your arguments. Its the best selling consoles of all time. Suck that up before opening your mouth.

>>3043843
>Even during the PS2 days, there was only one market - people who play video games.
The PS2 was a DVD player. How young are you?

>>3043849
>The PS2 was a DVD player.
it didn't have a big impact on sales though

So this is what /vr/ is going to become once 6th gen is allowed?

Sony fanboys posting sales charts? Might as well just change the board to /v2/

>>3043669
>being this assblasted

Holy cancer.

>>3043826

You're forgetting something important regarding the PS2's sales.
Besides the DVD player and the GTA games...

The FIFA/Winning Eleven/PES games. Those sell like hot cakes in Europe and Latin America.

I know many people that buy every single console Sony release, and the only games they ever buy for them are the yearly football games.

>>3043843
>Even during the PS2 days, there was only one market - people who play video games
and people who watch DVDs. Of course, that's just glossing over the fact that there are different types of gamers who like different genres, but that's probably too complicated for you to grasp.
>blah blah xbox
We weren't talking about the financial situation of the Xbox division, we were talking about the library of the first one, as well as the idiocy of claiming the entire GC library was shit and that Sonic Team/Sega didn't make any good games for it. That alone is dumb enough to condemn the rest of the PS2 fanboy post to the garbage.

>>3043826
It's the other way around actually. Use logic. The PS2 made DVD popular just like the PS3 made Blu-ray popular. Without PS3 blu-ray would not have taken off. DVD would have taken off without pS2, but the ps2 helped boosting its sales even more. The DVD is a feature. That means the other consoles suck. That is the flaw in your logic. That isnt even an argument:
>Because it was a DVD player.
Yes, it is. And it is the best selling console of all time. Something your console never achieved because it was shit, probably.

4K blu-ray didnt take off because ps4 didnt implemented it.

>>3043848
>It is. And it destroys all your arguments
Not really, it just proves you think sales = games which proves you're retarded.

>>3043861


>your console

Wait, you think you're talking to some nintendo/microsoft executive? lol

>>3043851
>it didn't have a big impact on sales though

Nah, it only had a HUGE impact on it. Tons of families bought the PS2 because it could:
- play all PS1 games
- play DVDs
- play PS2 games... eventually, once good ones started coming around a year or two later.

The entire PS1 generation pretty much directly jumped on to the PS2.

>>3043851
So let me get this straight. Your underageb& retarded ass is saying that 15% of the total console sales being made in the first year is a small amount when the console's life span was over 13 years?

Let me do a double check and make sure I'm reading this correctly. One moment.

Yep that's exactly what your retarded ass is saying.

All I can say is wow.

Let keep reading that post. Ok now you go on to say that since you were able to buy some complete no name DVD box that was probably filled with cement for $40 that it negates that every quality DVD player was over $300 at the time?

6th genners are fucking retarded. Like I don't know what happened to you kids. But fuck you're dumb.

>>3043869
yes, because every parent rushed out to buy a PS2 for $300 when walmart was waiting with endless stacks of clearance DVD players for $40

fantastic logic

>>3043860
The DVD makes the pS2 the best consoles because it's also a home cinema system. This is a feauture and the reason why this console is so great. Multimedia topped by pS3. People on here act like this is bad, but if you are a normal person it is great. I love it.

>>3043864
Not really, it just proves you think sales = games which proves you're retarded.
It's a fact that the ps2 is the best selling consoles and most popular console of all times. it has also one of the best libraries besides snes and ps1.

>>3043865
no, just some butthurt oldfag you never got over the fact that life moved on.

>>3043869
This is not even an argument. The DVD is a feature.

Here is an argument. The other consoles sucked and where NOT ahead of their time, because they couldnt play dvds. this is why ps2 is the greatest console. it outshines where others failed.

>>3043870
>Your underageb& retarded ass is saying that 15% of the total console sales being made in the first year

You probably don't know this since it may have occured before your year of birth, but the PS2 was actually released in early 2000.

So that 15% covers 2 years (2000, 2001), and doesn't include the PS2's most successful year (2002).

Why is it that 6th genners, or people born in the late 90s/early 00s, have this kind of entitled, arrogant personality?

I'm sure there must be some logical explanation in a sociopolitical way, but I can't pinpoint what exactly.

>>3043876
>The PS2's best feature was it wasn't a video game console

>>3043874
>no, just some butthurt oldfag you never got over the fact that life moved on.

That makes even less logic. If he's an "oldfag", he had probably more money than you did when you was a kid, thus he could probably afford all the consoles, unlike you who were stuck with only one and now you need to defend it online against anyone who dares to criticize your childhood's only system.

>>3043859
True.
>>3043861
>The PS2 made DVD popular just like the PS3 made Blu-ray popular
You just get dumber and dumber don't you?
>DVD would have taken off without pS2
No shit.
>but the ps2 helped boosting
Learn English before you make retarded arguments. If DVD was already taking off and the PS2 launched as an affordable DVD player, then DVD pushed the PS2.

>>3043869
I agree, it had a huge impact on it. It put people off the gamecube because you couldn't play DVDs on it, it went down as one of Nintendo's great blunders. With bluray it was completely different, because the wonder of optical video had gone out of it and most people were downloading anyway. It's quite obvious who are the people who were the full deal at that time and who were a few sections short of a six-pack at that time, the latter should please leave or seriously stfu. Being able to fish some links out doesn't "prove" how things were.

>>3043874
>of all times
Can we ban 3rd world shitposters already?

>>3043878
Name 1 console with a better launch. I'll wait fucking retard.

>>3043879
>Why is it that 3rd and 4th genners, or people born in the l80s, have this kind of entitled, arrogant personality? They talk shit about 5th gen and 6th gen but when someone say nes games suck they get triggered. really funny.

>>3043884
It's still the most popular and best selling console of all time. Besides it performed equally to the other consoles. no major difference. when you look at it like that gamecube and xbox are lacking features. ps2 performs just as well but has dvd = best console of all time. lets not talk about dreamcast it is dead.

>>3043885
>If he's an "oldfag", he had probably more money than you did when you was a kid, thus he could probably afford all the consoles,
no that is not how an oldfag autist from 4chan /vr/ functions. they stopped buying game consoles after snes and created dungeons were they live, isolated from civilization and time.


>>3043891
just google it honey. this is a fact.

>>3043852

Pretty much.

If 6th gen ever gets allowed it will mostly be Sony fanboys shitting on any and all threads that aren't PS2-related.

Can't wait to see how they desperately defend the inferior PS2 multiplats, it will be fun. Well, not really fun, but you know.

>>3043890
>It put people off the gamecube because you couldn't play DVDs on it, it went down as one of Nintendo's great blunders

What put people off the Gamecube was Nintendo delivering highly unpopular first party games (Luigi's Mansion). sequels to N64 games with very little mainstream appeal (Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker) or just plain disappointing (1080 Avalanche, Pokemon Coliseum).

The only games on Gamecube that the mainstream audience liked was Super Smash Bros Melee and Metroid Prime.

So Gamecube's lukewarm sales had nothing to do with DVD (much like the PS2 being the best selling console of all time had nothing to do with DVD) but it was just down to the mainstream appeal of the game library.

It's the games, stupid.

>>3043894
>lets not talk about dreamcast it is dead.
That's a really foolish remark to make. Lots of people still play PS1, lots still play PS2. A lot of your post seemed okay for someone apparently born in the 90s, but that was a stupid comment.

>>3043894
>no that is not how an oldfag autist from 4chan /vr/ functions. they stopped buying game consoles after snes and created dungeons were they live, isolated from civilization and time.

Is this a projection of yours? Maybe you stopped buying consoles after the PS2 and made a dungeon on your mom's basement, which would explain why you're so zealous about your PS2 fanboy faggotry.

Anyway, I like the PS2, make no mistake. But your demeanor (google this word, you probably don't know what it means since your english isn't very good) is giving PS2 fans a bad image.

If all you're going to do is say how PS2 is the best and how Xbox/GC are shit and how old people are shit, then I don't know what are you trying to do on /vr/, other than looking like a complete tool for us to laugh at.

>>3043894
>lets not talk about dreamcast it is dead.
That's a really foolish remark to make. Lots of people still play dreamcast, a lot more still play dreamcast. There are many great games on dreamcast. A lot of your post seemed okay for someone apparently born in the 90s, but that was a stupid comment.

>>3043903
Being able to play DVDs was a huge selling point in the early 2000s. It was a large part of the PS2's success.

>>3043909
a lot more still play PS2*

>>3043885
>you who were stuck with only one and now you need to defend it online against anyone who dares to criticize your childhood's only system.

This actually describes oldfags from /vr/. They had their small crt and their console in their room - they bought their game and played one at a time. While 5th and 6th gen kids had access to more games because pc gaming became a thing and they could also emulate all the oldgen games. So 5th and 6th gen had actually access to more games than oldfags. Let's face it.

>anyone who dares to criticize your childhood's only system.
/vr/ oldfag autist criterion number.

NES sucks. It's pixelated garbage with MRI like annoying noises/sounds. Gameplay sucks. Graphics are bad. No save function. Bad graphics, bad physics. Games are no fun. Only challenge is to survive -arcade style. No storyline and innovative gameplay like snes and ps1. I'm so glad I never grew up with NES. I pitty oldfags so much. If only they had a snes, n64 or a ps1, they wouldn't be so miserable.

Guys I think this PS2 fanboy is just either a Sega or a Nintendo falseflag, trying to make Sony fanboys look bad.

A person can't be this stupid.

>>3043894
Back to the favela honey, you shouldn't be on an English imageboard if you can't read.

>>3043903
Oh fuck off, I'm not going to get into an argument with you about the games, I'm stating how it was at the time. You really think I'm going to address all your points, pulling Bill Clinton quotes out what sort of retard are you, I'm just stating how it was, end of discussion.

>>3043910
>Being able to play DVDs was a huge selling point in the early 2000s. It was a large part of the PS2's success.

But it literally wasn't. I honestly feel like this "DVD was crucial to PS2's success" is the kind of superficial analysis a freshman might make in their 101 business course.

In the PS2's most successful year. the year of our lord 2002.

You could already buy.

A standalone DVD player.

For $40.

I'm sick and tired of people attributing the success of game consoles to gimmicks or rubbish like that. The success of a console (or ANY platform, gaming or not) is almost always linked to the content - in this instance, the video games.

>>3043907
>Is this a projection of yours?
no it's a projection of /vr oldfag autist that stopped gaming after snes.

>>3043909
This was just banter. I was joking.

>>3043913

>>3043924
>no it's a projection of /vr oldfag autist that stopped gaming after snes.

Who? I don't see anyone on this thread even mentioning the SNES, other than you.

So you're just projecting, gotcha.

By the way, your "banter" comes more off as "I'm a retard".

>>3043920
>>3043903
>>3043851
A $40 DVD player in 2000 is like a $40 Bluray player in 2006.

You're a fucking idiot kid. Please stay in /v/.

>gating on poor old Dreamcast
Hello /v/!

>>3043927
>Who? I don't see anyone on this thread even mentioning the SNES
You must be new here. /vr/ hates anything pas snes. ps1 is the beginning of the end.
ps1 is not retro anymore. n64 is garbage. everything after it is utter garbage 3d blurry 480i shit.

>>3043931

It's just one mad PS2 kid who couldn't handle when people starting pointing out that the PS2 might not be the best console of all time as his child self remembers, gasp!

I don't think even /v/ is this retarded, this guy got fanboyism to a new level.

Although >>3043914 might be onto something.

>>3043930
2002

DVD was already 6 years old at that point.

And there is evidence that it was $40 in that image.

>>3043937
The PS2 is the best selling and most popular console of all time.

>>3043938
It's 2016 and guess what $40 will buy you if you want a DVD player or BluRay player? A pile of shit you dumb fuck.

>>3043914
There are at least two or three people defending the PS2 here, and it's mostly from retards who think it was a DLC paywall Call-of-Duty console. It wasn't. It was the last console where you could just pop a disc in and play.

One could also argue that the hardware wasn't as weak as most people mention. Yeah, it was - on paper - much weaker than GC or Xbox, but it had a ridiculous metric fuckton of fillrate on par with systems that came out a generation later. And that was enough for it to be breathing distance of the Gamecube and not THAT far off the Xbox, both in quality and complexity of effects.

But most games did not use that power because it was extremely tricky to optimize it for maximum performance, most games didn't even bother doing progressive output.

>>3043934

So, because some people successfully baited your 6th gen ass with those statements, you're going to assume the entirety of /vr/ hates 5th gen and 3D? And because of that you decided to hate on the entirety of 3rd gen?

Boy, you're not very bright.

I've been on /vr/ since day one, and I was one of the people that asked for 5th gen to be included (you may not know this because you're probably new, but 5th gen wasn't initially allowed on /vr/)

Anyway, I think you're overheating, boy. Try to close up your laptop, go take a walk on the park or something. At this point you're just looking like an idiot, calling people "old" and saying stuff like "NES is shit" on /vr/ of all places. I get that you're probably trying to take some kind of "revenge" because someone previously made you mad, but you must understand that you're retarded.

>>3043920
>But it literally wasn't. I honestly feel like this "DVD was crucial to PS2's success" is the kind of superficial analysis a freshman might make in their 101 business course

And we are TELLING you, it LITERALLY WAS.

Some of these things you just know as fact after the matter. The vast majority, including professional analysts agree with us. Now I dunno, in theory you could have some backward ass radical opinion that made some sense, just coming out with things like "freshman exam paper" is not a good argument.

>I'm sick and tired of people attributing the success of game consoles to gimmicks or rubbish like that. The success of a console (or ANY platform, gaming or not) is almost always linked to the content - in this instance, the video games.

It is TODAY and 95% of the time in history, but it wasn't during the introduction of the PS2. Nobody EVER attributes an old console's success to a gimmick, EVER. ONLY the PS2's DVD playing ability, which was not a gimmick, it was a very useful utility for the owner. The main draw was the games... the DVDs was a useful add-on that many, many people made use of.

Let me ask you something, what age were you the day the PS2 was released?

>>3043948
>you're going to assume the entirety of /vr/ hates 5th gen and 3D?
Yes - this is the core of /vr/. This is what defines /vr/.

>>3043946

I'm talking about this guy:
>>3043913

I call falseflag

>>3043953
>>3043934
Youtuber opinions the post.

>>3043951
The PS3 made Blu-Ray a thing.
4k-Bluray isn't a thing, because PS4 doesnt have it.

>>3043728
It's not Sony's fault that Sega just couldn't keep up. Sega dropped the ball fucking big time in the mid 90's and they just kept falling deeper in the hole.

>>3043953

Then why do we have so many 5th gen threads? /vr/ loves the Saturn, and N64 vs PS1 war threads are pretty common all the time.

We barely have 3rd gen threads other than the occasional NES recs threads. If 3rd gen was more popular on /vr/, you'd have NES vs SMS shitposting threads often, and we have none.

/vr/ is mostly 4th and 5th gen.

I don't think you lurk /vr/ that much. But boy you sure do shitpost.

Why did I bother reading this thread.

I feel stupider for having done it.

>>3043958
No, that's because there's no perceivable fucking difference in normal viewing.

>>3043920
>In the PS2's most successful year. the year of our lord 2002.You could already buy.A standalone DVD player.

That could not play PS1 games, or play PS2 games (the hottest thing on the market at the time).

Hell for most normies it even added the extra difficulty of needing an extra set of cables and switching to a different channel on the telly.
And yes, these are realistic problems for the average consumer.

People just traded in their PS1s and put PS2s in their place.

And you underestimate the media craze when the PS2 came out. You had the news reporting of an embargo on PS2s for arab countries so Saddam can't use it as supercomputer chip to control his ICBMs.

Everybody wanted the PS2 when it came out, and it being able to play DVDs meant that, for anyone who did not want one, you could get them to want one in two snaps of a finger.

As anyone who got a PS2 during the early 00s and they'll tell you that DVD playback was a huge factor.

>>3043961
>. If 3rd gen was more popular on /vr/, you'd have NES vs SMS shitposting threads often, and we have none.
wow i never realised that.
that means that all those people on this board constantly talking shit about 5th gen and 3d are actually shit posters?
they are just angry that the 5th gen is so popular?

thank you, you made me happy and calmed the beast.
you could argue that it is the same with hate for 6th gen...

>>3043968

Uh, yeah no, that's not what I meant, but whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

Is /vr/ kill?

>>3043965
4k blurays are not meant to be viewed on a crt you crtfag. 4K Blu-rays are supposed to be viewed on your average 60 inch+ O/LED 8k HDR TV. 1080p looks shitty on 8K TV.

>>3043018

Thanks OP for making such an original and non-bait thread. Maybe you're the hero that /vr/ needs to make this board great again. Godspeed Op

>>3043943
The PS2's DVD playing capabilities were roughly on par to a bargain bin player anyway. I remember people doing analysis back in the day.

>>3043951
>The vast majority, including professional analysts agree with us.
So who qualifies as the "professional analysts"? Michael Pachter?

>Nobody EVER attributes an old console's success to a gimmick
On the contrary, I think 99% of the time the Wii's success was attributed to a 'gimmick' the motion controls. Arguably it's less of a gimmick than DVD playback since it was actually used for gaming.

>ONLY the PS2's DVD playing ability, which was not a gimmick, it was a very useful utility for the owner
But by definition it is a gimmick. It's a "sweetener" unrelated to the core function of playing video games, designed to value-add in a novel way.

>Let me ask you something, what age were you the day the PS2 was released?
20

>>3043978
It will be if post-PS2 console sans GBA become commonplace on /vr/.

Look at this thread. This thread is the taste of a 6th-gen accepting /vr/. Savor it's flavors of pure, unregulated cancer.

>>3043981
>The PS2's DVD playing capabilities were roughly on par to a bargain bin player anyway. I remember people doing analysis back in the day.
It had the Sony name on it. That's all that mattered back then.
It was a decent enough DVD player.

>>3043984


PEE ESS TU IS THE BEST CONSOLE FAGGOT YOU CANT DENY MY MILLENNIAL ENTITLEMENT

>>3043958
>The PS3 made Blu-Ray a thing.

Bluray never was a thing.

It silently replaced DVD as DVD production halted and cheap Bluray players replaced them on the stores, and once you could only buy HDTVs.

But it never was a "thing".
For a few reasons - first, you needed a new HD television for it to matter, otherwise it looked the same as DVDs. Second, it did not give you extra functions like DVDs did over VHS (such as instant seeking, no need to rewind the tape, multiple audio channels, extra content, etc). There was also HDDVD early on which added to consumers confusion.

Bluray was a silent progressive update, like how broadband slowly went from 384kbit lines to 150mbit ones.

>>3043920

You weren't around then, bucko.

I swear to god I wish people that weren't there wouldn't comment on shit they knew nothing about.

The PS2 was easily defined around and heavily marketed by the fact it was also a DVD player. It was easily the best value for what you got at the time. It was a DVD player with component ability that also played video games. Casuals ate it up like they ate the Wii but for different reasons.

The PS2 is a hell of a good console but I fucking HATE when you people come in to these threads and say this shit. It just isn't true. The PS2's success is heavily attributed to its DVD player function.

>>3043967
>That could not play PS1 games, or play PS2 games (the hottest thing on the market at the time

Sure, but we're looking at $40 vs $300. For people that don't care about games (a lot of people), that's a pretty obvious choice.

>Hell for most normies it even added the extra difficulty of needing an extra set of cables and switching to a different channel on the telly.
Doesn't come with a remote either. Or back ports. Anyway, you are correct, which makes it even more unbelievable that people would have bought it primarily for the DVD playback.

>>3043920
>But it literally wasn't. I honestly feel like this "DVD was crucial to PS2's success" is the kind of superficial analysis a freshman might make in their 101 business course.

not an argument

>>3043995
no one actually provided any argument on any side in this thread so...

>>3043993
>The PS2 was easily defined around and heavily marketed by the fact it was also a DVD player.

I'm curious. Can you provide one PS2 printed ad or video commercial that prominently emphasizes its DVD playback ability? (and no, just having the DVD logo is not sufficiently prominent)

>>3044000
Ur dumb

>>3043994
>>3043851
>>3043938
>>3043920
I want to know. I'm serious here.

What 3rd world shit hole do you live in where a $40 DVD player was acceptable?

>>3043981
>On the contrary, I think 99% of the time the Wii's success was attributed to a 'gimmick' the motion controls. Arguably it's less of a gimmick than DVD playback since it was actually used for gaming.

That's why I said "old" consoles, I wasn't counting the Wii as an old console. I'm talking about NES, SNES, genesis, N64, etc. all that are discussed on /vr/. You said you were sick of the success of consoles being attributed to gimmicks, all those consoles had their gimmicks and not one has their success attributed to it.

> But by definition it is a gimmick. It's a "sweetener" unrelated to the core function of playing video games, designed to value-add in a novel way.

RUBBISH, that's not what "gimmick" means at all. A useful add-on is not a gimmick, nevermind by definition. A gimmick is by definition something superficial and only lasts a little while with little depth, and everyone forgets about after a while. Go look up a dictionary.

>>3043994
>Sure, but we're looking at $40 vs $300.

PS2 was $200 in 2002, and the people who did not care for games still often had a family which involved one or two kids who cared about games. Plus it was a three-in-one device, so people were more likely to pay for that since it meant they could throw out their PS1, VHS, and be future proof with what was the most popular console of the era.

>>3043764
>>3043759

>Tony Hawk and what appears to be midnight club
>actually fucking implying

You're a loon, anon.

The power tier list is as follows for 6th gen and you're a fucking idiot for believing otherwise

1)Xbox
2)Gamecube
3)PS2
4)Dreamcast

Period. End of story. There is nothing on PS2 short of Final Fantasy XII that looks anywhere close to Resident Evil 4 or the Nintendo-made IPs.

The Xbox could probably run F-Zero GX and Mario Sunshine, but the PS2? Top fucking kek there is no way the PS2 could run that shit without serious issues.

DC > Gamecube > Xbox > PS2

>>3043561

Fuck off. It's okay when sony does it

>>3043979
God you're retarded.

>>3043018
Actually Dreamcast could handle more polygons on screen that PlayStation 2, due to Sony's budget cutting decision to limit DRAM to a mere 4MB. Most PS2 games could barely muster more than 2million polygons, with the exceptions being sports games. Everything you wrote was laughable, at best. Anyone that played DOA2:Hardcore knows which version reigned superior. And don't even get me started on Tekken JAG Team. Go meme/troll elsewhere. >>>/v/

>>3044012
Xbox has no good games, in fact it's a bigger fratbro system than the PS2 is.

The exclusive Sega sequels to classic games are niche and not as remembered as the initial games. Calling the Xbox the successor to the Dreamcast is plain retarded Microshaft fanboyism.

>>3044004

http://www.marketing-papers.com/marketing-the-playstation-2.html

You underage faggots make me sick. The PS2 had an incredibly diverse library of games and was the best bang for your buck DVD player on the market. It was a win-win for the consumer through and through.

Fuck off and use google yourself you plebian underaged moron.

>>3044021
>Sonypony
>using the no games meme

>>3044021
>no good games

lel

>>3044007
>RUBBISH, that's not what "gimmick" means at all. A useful add-on is not a gimmick, nevermind by definition. A gimmick is by definition something superficial and only lasts a little while with little depth, and everyone forgets about after a while. Go look up a dictionary.

My area is business, so I speak in terms of value-adding. Gimmicks are not necessarily useless or disappointing - the only definition for gimmick in business is something that adds value in a non-essential way. But that doesn't mean 'superficial' or 'little depth'.

I think the classic example given in business school was that the rubber grip on toothbrushes was originally considered gimmick that is now universal due to its recognized usefulness to holding it when wet.

But the fact is that the rubber grip is not an essential part of the toothbrush. The grip itself is essential (otherwise there would be nothing to hold onto at all), but not the fact that it has a rubber component.

>>3044027

I was about to rage until I saw Phantom Dust. Good shit anon.

>>3043962
Why is this so far the fastest thread here?

It's so cancerous it barely fucking deserves it.

>>3044027
All those are mediocre fratbro fodder alongside inferior niche sequels to classic titles, yes.

>>3044006
>What 3rd world shit hole do you live in where a $40 DVD player was acceptable?

This was Walmart see >>3043851

>>3044010
I don't disagree that it was an appealing attraction to buyers. All I'm arguing is that 1) It wasn't decisive to the console's success, and 2) People weren't buying it primarily for the DVD function but for the games.

>>3044025
>http://www.marketing-papers.com/marketing-the-playstation-2.html

Oh, gee. Thanks for proving my point. This is literally a website where freshmans can buy college essays.

Hahaha.

>>3044028
>the only definition for gimmick in business is something that adds value in a non-essential way

By that definition the DVD playback in the PS2 was not a gimmick then, since games could use the extra space of the DVD disc, or the built-in MPEG2 decoder for better quality FMVs. Also, early PS2 games started switching to DVD format, even on very small games, because they were harder and more expensive to pirate in the early 00s.

>>3044027
These are not Mario or Zelda or Pokémon or Final Fantasy, therefore they are shit.

>>3044028
Just use the word gimmick like any normal fucking person does in the future. Like I give a shit about what you learned in business school.

If my experience of business school was coming out not knowing what the word "gimmick" meant I'd be looking for my money back and damages for wasted time, you might want to look into that.

>>3044043
Maybe. But the Gamecube did reasonably fine for playing games without the full sized disks. Or Xbox did fine for playing games even though it didn't have DVD Video out of the box.
The actual DVD playback feature is merely a license. That's really all it is.

The Wii uses the full sized full capacity DVD disks, and also has built in MPEG2 decoding and yet couldn't play DVD Video.

>>3044041

I didn't prove your point faggot and you still don't know what you are talking about.

You.were.not.there.

>WHY CAN'T YOU GOOGLE THINGS FOR MEEEEE?

Fuck off and die.

>>3044041
>This was Walmart see >>3043851

>Apex AD-1500 DVD Player

It didn't even have component out. It was a pile of shit. Like has been said in numerous any DVD player worth a shit in 2000 was $300+

>actually trying to claim that the PS2 being a DVD player wasn't a part of its success

Sure is revisionist history in here. This is easily the shittiest thread on /vr/ of 2015. Good job everyone and thanks janitors for letting a clearly cancerous thread remain for as long as it has.

>>3044056
Wow. Component. How useful for mainstream buyers.

Remember how Nintendo removed component support from later Gamecube revisions after their market research discovered under 1% of owners were using it? It's the same pre-HDTV era.

>>3044050
That's because they didn't pay the royalties, the same reason the gamecube and dreamcast didn't have DVD. DVD was a proprietary format, patented. By the time of the Wii the demand for DVD players had dramatically decreased, but at the time of the PS2 release it was huge.

>>3044063
>point out the DVD player is peice of shit compared too the PS2
>OH BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER!

Fuck off retard. In 2000 Sony's name still meant something. And that's a big thing for any consumer. Often times the only thing that matters.

>>3044063
>Wow. Component. How useful for mainstream buyers.

For mainstream buyers the PS2 was the most useful DVD player because it also played shitloads of PS1 games AND it was the newest and hottest video game console.

>>3044064
And yet Xbox which was released in 2001 didn't have out-of-the-box DVD Video support.

It was such a "crucial feature", and yet they felt that it being optional was acceptable. And you can bet being Microsoft that they would have ran a lot of focus groups on this very question: to include DVD out of the box or not?

By the way...why didn't people buy a Dreamcast even though this offer was made? You could buy a Dreamcast and an actual DVD player for the same price as a PS2 (and it like came with a remote).

No impact on sales. Maybe...just maybe...people wanted PS2's games, and the DVD wasn't essential...

Only on /vr/ or /v/ is it a controversial statement to say that people want to buy a games console for the games.

I just want to say that I loved the vast and diverse library of the ps2 along with the system but this thread is just shit and pure cancer.

>>3044075
>A non multi media company did something that wasn't multi media
Man that's a tough one right there.

>>3044012
>The Xbox could probably run F-Zero GX and Mario Sunshine, but the PS2? Top fucking kek there is no way the PS2 could run that shit without serious issues.

ps2 ran burnout 3 which is technically far more impressive than f-zero gx

>>3044012
>The Xbox could probably run
m8 the xbox is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful than the gamecube.

>>3044035
(You)

>>3044090
he's not wrong desu

>>3044075
DVD was on xbox PERIOD. Nobody said you were going to be forced to use it, if you wanted it you got it.

Look at the example you gave, that just proves how big a deal having a DVD players was... they were literally packing one with a dreamcast, which is obviously inefficient to having them both together. There's your evidence man how big a mess they made of it, they had drastically underestimated gamers' need for DVD players and were ham-fistedly packing the two together claiming they were still cheaper than a PS2. Dunno how you think that adds to YOUR argument.

When they realized their mistake they also had a special dreamcast/dvd player made by panasonic, essentially a dreamcast that played dvds.

>>3044027
Phantom Dust is one of the best examples how to NOT design games on consoles. The game without xbox live isn't even a shell of itself.

>>3044075
DVD was on xbox PERIOD. Nobody said you were going to be forced to use it, if you wanted it you got it.

Look at the example you gave, that just proves how big a deal having a DVD players was... they were literally packing one with a dreamcast, which is obviously inefficient to having them both together. There's your evidence man how big a mess they made of it, they had drastically underestimated gamers' need for DVD players and were ham-fistedly packing the two together claiming they were still cheaper than a PS2. Dunno how you think that adds to YOUR argument.

When they realized their mistake Nintendo even had a special gamecube/dvd player made by panasonic called a panasonic q, a gamecube that played dvds.

>>3044094
Uh, no. They bundled a DVD player with a Dreamcast because they thought (incorrectly) that it was the missing DVD playback which was the reason nobody bought their console.

Hence bundling the two together had no positive effect on Dreamcast sales.

>ham-fistedly packing the two together
What? It's a far better deal to get a proper DVD player than a PS2 with no backports, no remote, probably a worse DAC, etc.

That's right. DVD playback was so non-essential that Sega making a BETTER deal than Sony literally did nothing.

>>3044102
If it had launched with DVD playback it would've been a different story, you can't honestly compare a clumsy too-little-too-late limited bundle deal to the first console to ever have DVD playback at launch. Why are you faggots so desperate to debunk the DVD thing anyway? It was a good business move on Sony's part.

>>3044093
>he's

>>3044106
>If it had launched with DVD playback it would've been a different story

And it would have been $599. And there would have been barely any DVD content anyway. Nothing would have been a more idiotic business move.

>Why are you faggots so desperate to debunk the DVD thing anyway? It was a good business move on Sony's part.
It was a good business move, it's just that people use the DVD thing as a crutch to argue that the PS2 had worse games than the Gamecube, and the only reason the PS2 "won" the console war is because people didn't buy it for the games they bought it to watch movies (so the PS2 winning doesn't "really count").

It's bullshit, and all I'm doing is calling it out. All I'm saying is that DVD was a clever value-adding gimmick in 2000/2001 to help persuade early adopters to buy the console. That's all it was.

But which arcade board based on 6th gen systems was superior?

http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=543
http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=721
http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=728
http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=729

>>3044126

Naomi just for the sheer amount of games.

Triforce is amazing and has F-Zero AX, a shame they didn't exploit it more.

>>3044121
>And it would have been $599
Not to mention impossible since Sony was heavily invested in DVD while Sega wasn't. Point is it's stupid to compare that bundle deal to what they did with the PS2.
>All I'm saying is that DVD was a clever value-adding gimmick in 2000/2001 to help persuade early adopters
Which had a significant impact on the product's image and sales. If you look at the top-selling games for the console, they were shit. Most people bought one for a) shitty games and b) DVD, so the argument that its success mostly wasn't due to an excellent library is accurate. Great libraries don't shift systems anymore and the PS2 just proved it.

>>3044121
>And it would have been $599. And there would have been barely any DVD content anyway. Nothing would have been a more idiotic business move.

For a dreamcast? Wow, now you're really showing your cluelessness. The dreamcast had MPEG-2 decoding built in, the GD-rom format was a DVD on the inside with CD on the outside. There was no problem with the laser reading DVDs. It was the exact same with the gamecube, whose discs were basically small dvds, there was nothing about the lasers that couldn't read the data.

The cost would only have been proprietary to the DVD content holders, and it went down as one of the biggest blunders in gaming history. I don't know what it would have been, $15 $20 sounds reasonable. Dunno where you came up with this $599 figure... wondering if you have serious mental issues.

>>3044035
>this console has no good games
>well here's a list of games i like
>they are all shit lel

Seriously?

>>3044158
>Seriously?
Usually that's how flow that kind of shit, it doesn't matter if you post the best catalog of a console because it's gonna be shit anyway.

>>3044013
ps2>ngc>dc>xbox

>>3043991
>bluray never was a thing.
It is a thing in modern age outside vr where people own hdtvs.

>>3043991
ps3 made bluray a thing. without ps3 bluray would never have become popular and we might have got HD dvd from Microsoft. the ps3 won the format war.

>>3044147
>The dreamcast had MPEG-2 decoding built in

No it doesn't.

>GD-rom format was a DVD on the inside with CD on the outside

GD-ROM has pits which are only slightly more spaced together than CD. It's a small leap from 700 MB to 1.2 GB. But it's a big leap from 1.2 GB to 4.7 GB, which is what DVD requires.

Good luck including a DVD-drive on a console released in 1998 for less than $500 including MPEG-2 decoding and licensing costs.

>It was the exact same with the gamecube, whose discs were basically small dvds, there was nothing about the lasers that couldn't read the data.
Gamecube's disk pits have a similar narrow spacing to DVD. The only similarity between GD-ROM and Gamecube disks is that they spin with CAV.

>>3044223
dreamcast gd Rom is like umd. top kek

>>3044223
>No it doesn't.

Okay actually it is MPEG-1.

>GD-ROM has pits which are only slightly more spaced together than CD. It's a small leap from 700 MB to 1.2 GB. But it's a big leap from 1.2 GB to 4.7 GB, which is what DVD requires.

See that's where you're wrong because if you ever owned a GD-rom you would know that they have two densities, one density is all concentrated along the centre and the other is further on the outside where there's a lot more surface area. It makes sense that they would use lasers that were already down to an art for DVDs, there was no technical difficulty with reading pits that distance apart. If making a laser that could do that was difficult and costly, then why wouldn't they just evenly distribute the pits throughout and use a cheaper laser? They used the ones already being made for DVDs and the only reason it can't read them is because they're in dvd format.

>>3044274
>why wouldn't they just evenly distribute the pits throughout
GD-ROM is CAV, so it needs denser pits at the center for constant read speed. And it uses a CD-ROM type laser for all of it, there's no DVD section.

>>3043524
Le'me dun here show all yer fellers what the good ol Gawd fearing folk of the US of A know to bees the truth.

>>3044274
http://segaretro.org/GD-ROM

>>3044218
>It is a thing in modern age outside vr where people own hdtvs.

Back in 2006 the PS3 was the slowest selling 8th gen console, and Bluray did not have any advantage over DVD other than resolution. And resolution did not matter because HDTVs were expensive high-end tech, with extremely little content around (HD channels were not common and SD channels looked like crap).

>>3044220
>ps3 made bluray a thing. without ps3 bluray would never have become popular and we might have got HD dvd from Microsoft. the ps3 won the format war.

PS3 certainly helped but it was not a deciding factor. The deciding factor was when HDDVD got cracked and pirates started copying them en masse, prompting the studios to announce switching over to Bluray (of which a crack also existed, but was purposefully withheld for this exact reason).

I was visiting Home theatre expos yearly back then, it was an interesting time. I remember that everyone in the expos, who were showing off Bluray, were usually playing HDDVD MKV rips from stand-alone hard drive based players. The few dedicated bluray players took 1-2 minutes to boot up.

PS3 was nowhere around the time because it cost $600 and no games, you could go Wii60 for its price, or buy a midrange PC with a bluray drive.

>>3044274
>Okay actually it is MPEG-1.

It was also software only. The DC had no dedicated video decoder in it.

And the GD-ROM was a variant of normal CD tech, not related to DVD at all. Hell some PC CD-ROM drives could even read GD-ROMs, sometimes with a swap trick or a hacked firmware.

>>3044349
>PS3 certainly helped but it was not a deciding factor.
Yes, Sony's number one selling BluRay player and the number one selling BluRay player of all time had no effect on the Sony's own BluRay sales.

Yep not a factor at all.

>>3043018
DC was the first easily-cracked system, and piracy hurt the shit out of it. You could even play Playstation game ROMs on it.

>>3044362
Being the number one selling bluray player does not mean much if bluray players in general are selling like shit.

Anyway, the original argument was that PS3 pushed Bluray like PS2 pushed DVD, and this is false. PS3 sold horrible early on (599 US Dollars, revolutionary new features like real time weapon change, realistic battles based on actual history and here's this giant enemy crab, etc), and only HT movie nuts cared about Bluray.

PS3 only really picked up around the end of the generation, it was dead last for the majority of it.

>>3044349
the ps3 won the format war. are you a Microsoft shill? ew. Also bluray features not only better resolution but better compression, lossless sound, 3d and no more multi discs.
now with 4k, bluray will be updated with higher color gamut, hfr, dolby atmos and of course 4k.
Also you talk about 2006 while I refer by modern age to today where bluray and hdtvs are a thing. hdtvs are everywhere. which brings me back to my point. everywhere outside vr crt autism. so my argument still counts. bluray is a thing. you completely missed the point by referring to 2016 which is not today.

>>3044379
That was not the original argument. Learn to read imbecile. The original argument stated PS2 helped DVD sells while Ps3 defined the format war. The dvd was a feature on ps2. the bluray defined the ps3. Which is a total difference to what you have invented by not reading correctly.

>>3044381
>bluray is a thing. you completely missed the point by referring to 2016 which is not today.

No one gives a shit about where the PS3 stands in 2016. The fact is that in 2006 it sucked ass and did not push Bluray nowhere near as much as PS2 did in 2002.

And no one gives what new gimmick they put in Blurays either, since optical media is dead anyways; people just stream or download today.

Netflix and ITunes one the format war, not the PS3.

>>3044406
>no one gives a shit about the ps3 in 2016.
that was not even the point you cuck.
It was questioned if bluray is a thing, which it is in 2016. again you totally missed the point. this was not even about ps3 about ps3 being a thing - the ps3 defined bluray and just naturally has to be mentioned with it because it's all a Sony thing.

then again if you believe physical formats are dead and don't fight for them and be all hail digital, than you rather belong on >>>/v/
enjoy your shit quality iTunes rips.

>>3044349
>The deciding factor was when HDDVD got cracked and pirates started copying them en masse
No it wasn't. The deciding factor is that HDDVD was REGIONFREE and major players like Warner Brothers did not want to risk losing domestic sales to lower priced Chinese & Russian market releases. Bluray added a separate region code for China/Russia and Warner Brothers got behind it. Google it motherfucker.

>>3044438
>It was questioned if bluray is a thing, which it is in 2016.

It's the last optical format standing in an age where people put increasingly little importance to optical media due to streaming being more prevalent. It's not a thing, unless you count it being a nothing.

>the ps3 defined bluray and just naturally has to be mentioned with it because it's all a Sony thing.

You know what else was a Sony thing? Exploding laptops, rootkits, credit cards being stolen en masse, and backwards compatibility being removed (so you can re-buy your games from PSN).

>then again if you believe physical formats are dead and don't fight for them and be all hail digital

As far as movies go, yeah, optical media is fucking dead. I've been downloading them for 10+ years now.

>>3044381
>Also bluray features not only better resolution but better compression, lossless sound,
Actually HDDVD used VC1 for ALL discs, this produced image quality equal to that of Bluray. And early Bluray discs like the first release of Terminator 2 used MPEG2, which produced a vastly inferior release compared to the HDDVD release. In fact til Skynet Edition came out HDDVD had the superior release. Also both formats support 1080P. You're retarded.

>>3044481
h264 is dead. vc1 never became a thing. so who cares about that info? it doesn't add anything to the discussion. h265 is the thing now.

I don't know if you're trolling or some kind of Microsoft executive or shill pulling his hair out because someone mentioned bluray won the format war. why do you have so hard feelings about it? I was just being factual and you get very hyped and emotional about it. I don't understand.

>>3044461
okay reading this again you sound even more angry. It's okay if you like digital, I also watch shit movies and TV shows in digital. But good movies I always watch on Bluray. I just need the audiovisual quality and fidelity of a bluray - even that does not satisfy me - color gamut is horrible. I can't wait to buy my first 4k bluray. I hope they update the ps4 for 4k bluray maybe I'll buy it then.
Also You are on vr. How can you favor digital (Composite cable) over the high fidelity of bluray (rgb cable or Scart). This doesn't make any sense either. I guess I just have higher standards than you. I'm not a fan of lossy formats. For me even bluray is too lossy sometimes. But if you're happy with what you got its okay, a lot of people still have DVDs. It's all about expectations. Mine are too high sadly.

>>3043859
>I know many people that buy every single console Sony release, and the only games they ever buy for them are the yearly football games.


Why?

People buy the exact same game every year with some text changed (player names) for $60 and they discard the old ones at video stores for 10 cents where they are later sold for $2.

Please help me to understand the thought process of people like this.

Is the normie/dudebro brain lacking the imaginative faculties to play real games?

Someone should do an analysis of the different castes of gamers and their respective tastes, habits, and attitudes.

>>3044546
>Is the normie/dudebro brain lacking the imaginative faculties to play real games?
This is rather a question for
>>>/r9k/

But it's more a meme statement. most of these people are just casual gamers, so they play bad games like destiny , halo/killzone w/e or assassins creed version x

>>3044524
>I just need the audiovisual quality and fidelity of a bluray - even that does not satisfy me - color gamut is horrible.

Sounds like you just have a shit or badly calibrated display, then.

>How can you favor digital (Composite cable) over the high fidelity of bluray (rgb cable or Scart).

... you just confirmed that you don't know fuck all about the topic you are discussing.

>>3043859
>The FIFA/Winning Eleven/PES games. Those sell like hot cakes in Europe and Latin America.

Oh hell, when the first few FIFA games came out on the PS2, they looked so good that everyone was pissing their pants. I haven't played a football game since 1998 but even I have to admit that those ads in 2002 and 2003 made the game look BEAUTIFUL.

>>3044573
Hello troll. How are you feeling?

>>3044610
I'm serious. Please look up what kind of video composite video and RGB Scart is, before you talk anything more about digital video.

You are just embarrassing yourself if you argue any further without that knowledge.

>>3044524
>I hope they update the ps4 for 4k bluray maybe I'll buy it then.
Would that even be possible? If Sony is going to do that, they might as well make a PS5.

>>3044636
I'm sorry if you are too stupid to understand analogies. Please stop trolling. Seriously.

>>3044714
>I'm sorry if you are too stupid to understand analogies. Please stop trolling. Seriously.

Streaming and bluray are both digital, so your analogy is broken either way.

>>3044716
Hey troll, you don't know what an analogy is.
Let me explain it to you:
>Component and RGB are both analog.
>Digital HD and Blu-Ray are both digital.
>Component has inferior picture quality compared to RGB.
>Digital HD has inferior picture quality compared to Blu-Ray.
This is an analogy. I'm glad I could help.
>>3044696
Well this is very speculative.
1. There could be a firmware update to enable 4K Blu-Ray. Because 4K-Blu-ray is still Blu-ray. Problem is the motherboard of the PS4 and how hdmi and copyright protection is implented. I remember reading somewhere that certain parts of the HDCP have to be covered which is not the case in PS4. They could fix it, but these would mean that only newer models would support 4K Blu-Ray. Maybe older models will be allowed too, we don't know.
2. There will be an extra disc drive module like for xbox 360 which seems unlikely and stupid.
3. There will be a PS4+ model. Microsoft recently also unveiled that it plans to make the Xbox One upgradable.
4. There will be no 4K Blu-Ray for PS4 only digital content. PS4 is not so media center-centered like PS3.
5. This console era will be shorter; consoles were already outdated and not cutting edge enough when released. Time is moving faster from a technology development standpoint compared to the 90s. Meaning the PS5 will get 4K Blu-Ray.
6. 4K Blu-Ray will remain a niche product for videophiles like vinyls for audiophiles. PS5 will still have normal Blu-Rays or no discs at all?

>>3044741
>There will be a PS4+ model. Microsoft recently also unveiled that it plans to make the Xbox One upgradable.
I read about that, but how will MS make it work? The Xbox One doesn't have any expansion port as far as I know.

>>3044741
Yo guys before you eat me alive. I meant composite not component. I made a mistake.

>>3044748
Nobody knows. But it is feared that Microsoft might misuse its power to expand its monopoly to gaming.

>>3043728
>implying the DVD Player wasn't the only reason people bought a PS2

>>3043018

>has a lot of good games

it's a good console

>>3043737
>See I don't get this opinion. The majority of PS2 games ran like shit. I'm not saying that because it was limited by tech. They weren't. They ran like shit.
>XBox and GC had a shitload of games that ran 480p at 60 fps. PS2 it was rare. On top of nearly every PS2 game having a fucking blur filter.
But the PS2 was limited by tech. It was a year older than the Xbox and GameCube and only supported progressive scan via software. The Xbox and GameCube did it via hardware. In fact, the GameCube's progressive scan chip was installed into the component cables themselves (hence why they've never been reproduced and are so expensive nowadays).

>>3043125
>Which is why /vr/ should be pre-1995.
I think you're on the right track, but instead I would exclude consoles entirely. PC gaming, even for retro games, was exclusively for adults whereas console games are effectively toys for children.

>>3044794
See PS2 games like SotC. There was no reason for any game to have a blur filter or be made for 480i on that system. Only developer laziness.

>>3044795
You might as well just ask for a separate PC gaming board if you're going to suggest such an asinine thing.

Personally I would ditch consoles and computers entirely and just make this board arcade centric.

>>3044798
>PS2 games like SotC
Doesn't that game run like shit on the PS2?

>>3044795
>I think you're on the right track, but instead I would exclude consoles entirely. PC gaming, even for retro games, was exclusively for adults whereas console games are effectively toys for children.

I like this, but if it is the case then we should raise the year cutoff to 2005 or so. It was around that time when PC games started becoming predominantly console ports, and there were lots of classics still released between that time and 1999. C&C Red Alert 2 comes to mind.

>>3044817
30fps with dips to 20fps. I'll take that over blur filters and interlace flicker any day.

>>3044795
>PC gaming, even for retro games, was exclusively for adults whereas console games are effectively toys for children.
Hi.

It's funny because the actual kids-exclusive games (edutainment software) were mostly on PC. Edutainment games on console were very few and almost always had a PC release as well.

DWI, PC is for kids. Adults and game enthusiast play on gaming-exclusive systems, not your daddy's laptop.

not retro

Correct me if I'm wrong but Dreamcast has a stronger CPU and GPU than PS2, doesn't it? I remember Yu Suzuki stating that it would be impossible to run Shenmue II on the PS2. All the DC would've needed to stay relevant in the latter end of the sixth gen was increased RAM and a redesigned controller with another stick and more buttons.

>>3044892
It's such a shame they ditched the cartridge port if that was the case.

>>3044027

it must be a prerequisite for xbox games to have horrible cover art

>>3044892
>Correct me if I'm wrong but Dreamcast has a stronger CPU and GPU than PS2, doesn't it?

No, it doesn't. It has more video RAM and texture compression, 480p VGA output, and a modem, but that's all the advantages a stock DC has over a PS2.

Also note that the video ram advantage matters very little due to architectural differences (PS2 has so fast memory that it can texture from system ram).

PS2 was better in every other way I can think of. It also had a semi-programmable GPU (through the vector units?) while the DC was fixed function.

>All the DC would've needed to stay relevant in the latter end of the sixth gen was increased RAM and a redesigned controller with another stick and more buttons.

What the DC would've needed to stay relevant was Sega not going bankrupt.

Other than that, they could've done a home release of the Naomi 2 as the DC2 and it could've stayed relevant while remaining backwards compatible... would've increased the costs a lot, though. Naomi 2 had more RAM, two GPUs, and a dedicated T&L unit. That's enough extra horsepower that Virtua Fighter 2 had to be scaled down when ported on the PS2.

>>3044923
>Virtua Fighter 2

I mean Virtua Fighter 4, fuck.

>>3043018
Not retro fuck off to /v/

>>3044923
>It also had a semi-programmable GPU (through the vector units?) while the DC was fixed function.

Both Dreamcast and PS2 did T&L through fully programmable co-processors inside of their CPU. Neither the PS2's Graphics Synthesizer nor the Dreamcast's PowerVR have GPUs with on-board T&L.

A single PS2 vector unit (it has two of them + a general FPU) is almost twice as powerful as Dreamcast's single geometry co-processor.

>>3044794
>But the PS2 was limited by tech. It was a year older than the Xbox and GameCube and only supported progressive scan via software. The Xbox and GameCube did it via hardware

No, they all did it by hardware. All they needed to do was to supply the correct framebuffer to the DAC.

PS2's 4MB VRAM was typically a harsh constraint in size, so many developers could not fit in progressive scan compatible framebuffer into it, not that it wasn't capable of it. PS2, in theory, is perfectly compatible with 640x480p, the only problem was fitting it into VRAM while also trying to use the VRAM for texturing and such.

>>3043669
Dude lmao, why you responding?

>>3043018
>THIRD STRIKE arcade perfect like PS2)
PS2 3S is not arcade perfect. Not at all what the fuck are you smoking.

>>3043018
>>3045407
Funnily the Dreamcast has more arcade-accurate ports than the PS2 due to the Naomi arcade system being pretty much a modified Dreamcast.

>>3045425
3rd Strike doesn't run on the Naomi either you retard. It's CPS3. CVS2, MVC2, MVC1 these are all Naomi games. Dreamcast 3S doesn't even display the sprites at the right aspect ratio. The PS2 version is fucked as well but for different reasons.

>>3045428
Correction, I meant CVS1 not MVC1. MVC1 is a CPS2 game. I am also retarded it appears.

>>3045428
I wasn't talking about SF3 at all, just in general.

>>3044019
Stop using early shitty conversion as paradigm you shitty dcfags
Prove me DC can run Soul calibur 3, Tekken 5 or FF12.

>>3045436
His post is nonsense because geometry was not a strong point for the Dreamcast anyway. Even N64 wasn't that far behind Dreamcast in vector processing.

Dreamcast's strengths is the extremely efficient tile based renderer and generous VRAM allotment. It means a high resolution, vibrant image and good textures, but it doesn't mean high poly or sophisticated lighting.

>>3044019
>Actually Dreamcast could handle more polygons on screen that PlayStation 2, due to Sony's budget cutting decision to limit DRAM to a mere 4MB.

amount of VRAM has very little effect on polygon throughput, what matters is how fast the VRAM is. And the PS2 VRAM was I think the fastest of the generation.

This made up for the lack of features of the GPU, it had enough speed and power to brute force more complex effects.

>>3045389
>PS2, in theory, is perfectly compatible with 640x480p, the only problem was fitting it into VRAM while also trying to use the VRAM for texturing and such.

Yeah, and later games got around that by using most of the VRAM as framebuffer + cache, and copied over textures on the fly from system ram. I think it was one of the vector units that had absurdly fast access to both banks.

PS2 was really primitive and very parallel, but it made up for that by having so fast memory. The docs even said to not bother checking for polygon overdraw because letting the gpu do it was faster than computing a fix for it on the cpu/fpu/vu.

>>3045436
>Prove me DC can run Soul calibur 3, Tekken 5 or FF12.

It could run Crysis as long as you reduced the graphics (and the physics...) so it stays within the capability of the system.

>>3045513
My favourite feature is the 720p mode in games like God of War.

>>3045515
>"DC IS MORE POWERFUL THAN THE PS2"
No it's not, it can run SC3?
>"YES HE CAN, IF YOU DOWNGRADE THE GRAPHIC, DC ALWAYS WIN BABY YEAAAAA"
Seriously...

>>3045515
>It could run Crysis as long as you reduced the graphics (and the physics...)

Wow, that was retarded.

>>3045502
All this power and the PS2 only ends up looking pretty average for its generation? What game pushes the system the most?

>>3045545
>All this power and the PS2 only ends up looking pretty average for its generation?

It was very different from nearly every other architecture out there, and if you used it like "standard" setups, then it performed extremely poorly. Leveraging its strengths meant rewriting at least your rendering pipeline, and many devs either did not have the skill, the time, or the care to do that.

To be honest I don't know which game pushes it the most, since I haven't played enough games on the system. I hear God of War and Gran Turismo do real nice things with it.

>>3045539
Can PS2 run Shenmue 2? Nope. Too many high-quality textures that it couldn't have handled. That's why it had to go to Xbox instead.

>>3045570
It go to Xbox because Sega.
Stop being so retarded please.

>>3045570
k, but even then, that's shenmue 2. idiot said crysis could run on a fucking dreamcast.

>>3045570
Yea, textures.

That's why Sega partnered with MS instead of Sony after the PS2 killed the DC.

It was all for the high-quality textures.

>>3045583
Yes Microsoft paid to have American Shenmue 2, but AM2 still tested a PS2 version and the facts are that it simply didn't work on that system without massive slowdown.

>>3045570
>Can PS2 run Shenmue 2? Nope.

Wow, that was even more retarded than last time.

I doubt PS2 could properly run something like Ikaruga, that game would just be too much for the PS2 to deal with.

>implying the PS2 wasn't the most powerful console of its generation

>>3045595
Who needs Ikaruga when you can have Psyvariar?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbaA1qIx-C4

Also on Dreamcast.

>>3045598
In term of hardware power:

Xbox > Gamecube >>> Dreamcast > PS2

>>3045513
>Yeah, and later games got around that by using most of the VRAM as framebuffer + cache, and copied over textures on the fly from system ram

You still want certain textures to be on VRAM, and not to mention, once you are able to free up VRAM you want to improve image quality by having a framebuffer with a higher color depth (32 bit mode). Considerations like these is why PS2 virtually never had the full 640x480 framebuffer, but compromises such as 512x480.

>>3045595
Are you seriuos?
You can't, right?

>>3045603
Even Soul calibur 2 was out of reach for the DC, stop being so autistic DCfags
>"B-BUT THE SHITTY CONVERSION OF CODE VERONICA AND DOA2"
Stop, really, stop

>>3045595
>I doubt PS2 could properly run something like Ikaruga, that game would just be too much for the PS2 to deal with.

I'll just leave this here.

S

A

M

*combo breaka*

G

Could the Dreamcast run PSP games?

E

>>3045619
>run
Rather, "handle".

>>3045619
No, but it could run Doom 3 if you turned the settings all the way down (and the physics too...).

>>3045610
You telling me Burnout 3 couldn't run on the same system that got F-Zero GX, one of the fastest racing games of all time? Lmfao.

The physics simulations are way heavier on burnout 3 than on fzero gx and it doesn't have anything to do with subjective perception of quality

>>3045610
Money talks.

>>3045628
Burnout 3 has:

1) Significantly more geometrical complexity compared to the barebone tracks of GX
2) A physics system
3) Sophisticated vehicle collision detection
3) Dynamic mesh deformation for car accidents
4) More particle effects

>>3045628
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr7xQo0lyBs
>This barebone graphic is more complex than Burnout 3 or GT4
WHOA

>>3045665
I don't know about that game but RE4 looked great on the GC and noticeable worse on the PS2

>>3045667
Because it was a port of a Gamecube exclusive shitted out at the last minute to save Capcom's ass.

It was never developed with the expectation that it would be ported to another platform. Mikami threatened to decapitate himself if RE4 ever got ported to another system.

Not to mention it doesn't have much physics, collision detection, dynamic animations, etc

>>3045667
RE4 was shit even on PC, even worse than the PS2 version.
Not because lack of power, because they where rushed, not programmed ports

>>3045667
Not only that but Killer7 also ran horribly on PS2 than Gamecube.

Also why were most multiplats Gamecube+Xbox but not PS2?

>>3045690
>Also why were most multiplats Gamecube+Xbox but not PS2?
What?

>>3045690
>Not only that but Killer7 also ran horribly on PS2 than Gamecube.
Rushed port
Remember all of those Capcom games "GC only we swear!"?
Like Viewtiful Joe?
Then on "GC ONLY" they sell like shit..

>>3045671
i wish mikami did decapitate himself. a shame, really.

Wow awesome thread, can't wait to allow 6th gen here, it will sure save the board.

>>3045671
>decapitate himself

>>3045712
Mate, we saw the skype logs of you people conspiring to shit up any thread that even doesn't pretend that society blew up due to the Y2K bug. Go away. You're outed like a pantsed tranny.

>>3045696
RE4 sold amazingly on GC

It's just Capcom got greedy as usual and broke their pact

>>3045757
It sold good, but not so much for an AAA title.

>>3044027
>not mentioning the two Otogi

>>3044027
dead or alive is garbage

>>3045893
you're garbage. even your parents think so.

gran turismo 4 tho

>>3045894
it doesn't hold a candle to the other 3d games of that era

>>3043436
Not him, but I actually do have Parkinson's and I can still make Mario walk a straight line in Mario 64. It ain't that tough.

>>3043467
>it's copypasta!!!!
If so, then why is there only one hit from Google and why is it dated from yesterday and why is it the link to this thread?
Stop lying, Fibby McLiarson.

>>3043125
>pre-1995 only!!
I've said this from the beginning, but in a much less acerbic/douche-y manner.

>>3045916
>If so, then why is there only one hit from Google and why is it dated from yesterday and why is it the link to this thread?
I think he was saying that about the picture, which that guy has been using ever since 2014.

https://desustorage.org/_/search/image/Xipi-vdM8Utjx8Bu-d1ybg/

>>3044069
This.
I clearly remember that when I was small kid in small country (Czech republic). Oh boy just SONY sticker would made everybody rave.
Want to be coolest dude at school? You need dis:
>SONY walkman
>SONY discman
>SONY camera
>SONY tv
>SONY hifi
>SONY playstation
>SONY whatever: car radios, headphones, cellphones.
>Gameboy. Maybe.

I always love that people assumed that the PS2 killed the DC and not Sega's history of shitty decision making such as spreading themselves thin with too many mutually incompatible platforms that they would abandon faster than an unwanted pregnancy. There's a reason why consumers and developers alike abandoned Sega outside the diehard fanbase.

>>3044027
>no doom 3