/vr/ - Retro Games

Yeah, nostalgia is a nice thing

>>2904976
Don't do it

I didn't actually pay too much attention to that issue back then. Most of the games I played weren't that impacted by wobbly textures (eg, Crash); first time I thought "wow, that's jarring" was on some 3D GBA games quite later on.

I never liked the N64 look due to it being blurry as fuck. I live in RGB land, by the way, and had no idea what caused this - it's a number of factors but composite doesn't help at all. Historically here, only shitty cheap console clones were limited to using that yellow video cable, "real" consoles had a SCART plug. I didn't pay much attention to Nintendo's offering as such, until Perfect Dark came out (never enjoyed playing Goldeneye at parties and still don't, but PD kinda blew my mind for some reason).

I didn't play much of the Saturn then, but I did bought one used after the Dreamcast came out and was surprised by how much I enjoyed it despite how cheesy some games were. Didn't notice much texture wrapping, thought clipping polygons were weird to me. I had fun for a while moving around in NiGHTS and trying to make the floor "disappear" by standing on specific spots (it's very noticeable at the beginning of the last stage).

>>2904980
do what? I'm telling OP that nostalgia is nice it makes you appreciate things that would otherwise be seen as flaws.

>For bright colorful cartoony 3D
N64
>For gritty impressionistic 3D
Playstation
>For 2D
Saturn

All 3 are capable of the others of course and it's interesting to see when they do it but those are my preferences

>>2905003

But that conflicts with what OP said, which was that they "always" found PS1 graphics better, not just that they find them better now. You can't have had nostalgia in 1994 for something that came out in 1994.

>>2905009
this.

>>2904973
I love PS1 and Saturn's pre rendered background.

>>2905067

OK, maybe I was talking from personal experience. Back in the day I didn't like how pixelated and wobbly stuff on PS1 looked, I preferred the more consistent N64 or PC 3D, I still do but I appreciate PS1 better now than I did back then.
Nowadays I actually kind of like the PS1 aesthetics, by the way Saturn also has some of that kind of 3D, see the panzer dragoon games or burning rangers where irregular 3D clashes with 2D sprites and textures look like pixelated vomit when close up. it's kind of fascinating how developers struggled to work with the limitations and still offer something nice. Art direction is important in that regard.

>>2904982
Yeah Nintendo really fucked up the N64's video options. The SNES supported supported RGB, same for the Gamecube (PAL). Phonedork had his N64 modded for RGB and says it just brought out the flaws in the image more. Something to do with the N64's horizontal resolution or anti-aliasing I think?

>>2905108
I think it's actually the texture cache iir.

>>2904982
>Live in PAL land
>PSX came with RF adaptor
>PS2, PS3 came with RCA-SCART adaptor
JUST

The PS1's grainy gritty graphics worked well for games like MGS and the Tomb Raider games. It added to the atmosphere.

N64 is blurred but stable compared to PS sharp but shaky.

Is there any difference in Saturn visual graphical
rendering style compared to PS?

>>2905009
NiGHTS was beautiful though.

>>2905289
Saturn draws quads and 3D has less chances to look wrong.
I didn't see it by my own though.

>>2905009
This, and really I prefer the grit. Even as a kid I noticed the wobbly textures, but nostalgia has made it a part of the charm for me. The ps1 will always have a really nice aesthetic in my mind.

I like the n64's textures better, but holy fuck that blurry anti-aliasing every game has is awful.

I don't like the art style of any of them. I put up with it because I like the games.

>>2905387

ESTAMOS AHORA EN PERSEGUICION

>>2905146
Is MGS1 the best PSX game ever or what?

>>2905458
nah

>>2905009
Pretty much spot on. Saturn has easily the worst-looking 3D of the three though.

>>2905369

Anti-aliasing on the N64 was a mistake. Too soon.

>>2905480
what would the saturn look like?

Those stupid-looking pixelated PS1 explosion sprites were great. Can't get enough of them.

>>2905493
dithered transparancies[/spolier]

>>2905480
That's the clearest N64 terrain texture you'll ever see.
Although emulators make it seem blurrier than it was, because only one that I know of actually implements the N64's 3-point filtering instead of going full bilinear.

>>2904973
All 3 were ugly, but PS1 is least ugly. Everything on Saturn looks shitty and pixelated. Everything on N64 looks shitty and blurry and or foggy. Everything on PS1 looks shitty and grainy but that's at least better than the other two.

>>2905493
>what would the saturn look like?

Shorter loading, lower colour depth, slightly lower texture resolution, less jerking and no perspective errors, and dithered transparency.

>>2905509
But GIF shows no perspective errors.

>>2905108
>>2905124
It's the texture cache, yeah.

On most systems, the texture cache is just a piece of superfast memory you can use to do effects or to keep frequently reused parts of the image in.

On the N64 however it was a vital part of the graphics pipeline, the only place from where textures could be written into the framebuffer.

So on the N64 textures could be only as big as the texture cache. And the N64 texture cache was SMALL.

>>2905289
>Is there any difference in Saturn visual graphicalrendering style compared to PS?

It renders quads, so it has less perspective errors than the PS. But it also has worse shading capabilities, lower colour depth, less texture memory, and transparency modes which are so impractical that they might as well not exist. On the up side it can do fog effects the best out of all consoles since it can blend polygons into backgrounds faster than either other systems.

Saturn also lends itself to hi-res modes much more easily, but in those modes all shading and transparency are specifically prohibited. Only way to do either in hi-res mode is to manually apply palette colour changes via software (for simple flat shading), and to blend stuff with the backgrounds (for transparency).

The system died too early to get pushed to the max. Only two games used more impressive tricks around the hardware (Sonic R and Burning Rangers).

>>2905516
It shows jerking though. Saturn generally had a bit less of that too.

We need an updated GIF that has a, say, distorted trapezoid as the ground, and a figure standing on it. And a transparent logo of the console on top.

N64 would have no distortion, blurry as shit resizing, and a single trapeze + figure.

PSX would have loading, nearest neighbour (pixelated) resizing, affine mapping on the trapeze, and jerky textures on both the ground and the figure.

Saturn would have less loading than the PSX, pixelated resizing, the trapezoid would repeat itself infinitely with correct perspective (mode 7 style ground), the standing figure would have some jerking but less than the PSX, and also half the colour count on all graphics, and the console logo would have checkerboard transparency.

>>2905480

Way too kind to the N64.

It really depends on the developers though. The N64 can have some awful-looking textures, I remember Road Rash 64 being very ugly to look at (and play, but I know many people find the Road Rash games fun), but then there's games like Jet Force Gemini which makes pretty good use of textures.

However I think the N64 shined the most on the lighting effects. There's some lighting effects on JFG or Majora's Mask that impress me even today.

>>2905458
Kind of irrelevant to the thread. Definitely one of the best looking, I'd say.

>>2905561
>Definitely one of the best looking, I'd say.

Nah, that would be Gran Turismo 2 or Omega Effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r00eODWynx0

Omega Effect looks like a PS2 game honestly.

>>2905507

>>2905009
>For bright colorful cartoony 3D = N64
Spyro tho

>>2905693

N64 also can have some nice atmospheric grittiness.

I remember games like Shadow Man and Nightmare Creatures looked better on N64 than on PS1 (but probably the best version was on PC, I assume).

Saturn also wasn't all that bad on 3D cartoony stuff, NiGHTS being the prime example and also Sonic World from Sonic Jam actually does look (and play) pretty good for being only a sort of tech demo/hub

>>2905757
>Saturn also wasn't all that bad on 3D cartoony stuff,

That was all it could do due to having textures limited to like 4 colours at most, if you wanted to use a lot of them.

>>2905542
Wonder if there are people on /vr/ who can program on N64 and Saturn (not saying about Playstation, I think there certainly would be)

What have I found:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuH7RDIDZN4

What about the 3DO? What kind of graphics display style does it output? Which of the PS, N64, and SS does it most resemble?

Let's also rate and compare the audio output capabilities and quality of these four systems.

>>2904973
PS1 graphics look like shit nowadays, didn't age well

>>2905693
>All 3 are capable of the others of course

>>2905547

>>2906081

>posting emulator screenshots

>>2906086
Yes, it's an unfair comparison because the PS1 had native RGB output and the N64 didn't. In reality the N64 would be even more blurry.

>>2905146
No it didn't and you're a delusional fanboy for thinking otherwise.

>>2905009

Crash Bandicoot has the brightest, most colorful cartoony 3D from that generation, so no.

>>2905757
>>2905693
>>2905314
Yes, I thought I made it clear that I found it interesting when the other consoles took a shot at something outside their default specialty. I love Saturn and I admit to being something of an N64 hater from actually working Babbage's in the late 90s and seeing people shell out $70 for shovelware but I can be objective in hindsight.

As a young adult at the time, obviously I wanted that "adult" flavor of Playstation and now I do find it very interesting to look at Resident Evil on Saturn and particularly Tomb Raider on Saturn and Resident Evil 2 on N64.

Tomb Raider on Saturn REALLY taxes the 3D hardware in a way that does subtract from the quality of the game though it's worth playing just like the Ngage version is worth playing just because I feel strangely at home in that bleak environment having spent so much time there at a different time in my life and seeing true ports (not HD remasters) makes it fresh again in a weird way.

Resident Evil 2 on N64 is kind of the opposite. Back in the day it felt like I was playing a reproduction of the world to which I was accustomed. Like the walls were just smooth shiny vinyl wraps. This is a feeling I've become much much more accustomed to since then playing re-releases on more powerful consoles. Interestingly the Dreamcast version od RE2 didn't fuck with me nearly as much but maybe because it was one of the first games I played in progressive scan or maybe it was just my subconscious N64 hate.

>>2905880

Basically a weak PlayStation, which blew it out of the water after the earliest generation of PlayStation games.

>>2905561
>Definitely one of the best looking, I'd say.

>>2906225
>Crash Bandicoot has the brightest, most colorful cartoony 3D from that generation


Spyro and many other games have it equaled/beat in that aspect.

>>2904973
No. Just you

>>2906241
>Babbage's in the late 90s

grampa?

>>2905471
>Saturn has easily the worst looking 3D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foZUcPQAMvg

>>2905489
You probably mean texture filtering

>>2906245
I heard 3DO uses quads.

>>2906414
k keep us posted

>>2906819
>texture filtering

No. As said before, it was the (4kb?) texture cache which made most of the textures look fucked, and this is coming from someone who doesn't mind the graphical problems on both the N64 and PS1.

>>2907139
the texture cache determines the resolution to some degree. Regardless, anti-aliasing isn't related to the texture cache, which was what I was asking for clarification on.

>>2907139
>>2907142
filtering small textures is often a not-so-great idea. Neither is having small textures. Regardless, the texture cache is not responsible for the filtering, or anti-aliasing, which is what the exchange was about.

>>2905639
Nah, I love a lot of 16 bit graphics and after PS1 3D started to finally get good. Now graphics are amazing.

There were a few gems but overall the PS1 period had a lot of early ass ugly 3D and none of the 3 systems were powerful enough to make anything that looked good.

>>2906529
Well my wife is 24 and my son is 2 but I'm probably old enough to be your dad anyway. Was your mom a mall slut?

>>2906225
We could sit and debate Crash/Spyro/Croc vs Mario/Banjo/Conker and AGAIN I said all consoles are CAPABLE of all three styles but the consoles themselves tend to lean towards the areas I specified. The average mediocre game on N64 is going to be more cartoony while the average mediocre game on Playstation is going to be quasi-realistic.