/vr/ - Retro Games

Duke and Shadow Warrior are superior. Only hipsters will disagree.

>>2902285
to give some perspective I have played shadow warrior and loved every minute of it on the second to highest difficulty. same goes for Doom and Duke but this game just seems unbelievably unforgiving haha. Playing on the middle difficulty even.

>or is this game simply really, really hard

Yes, it is really hard. I believe someone posted here a while back that the biggest criticisms it received when it came out was the difficulty and that the developers intended for the hardest modes to be played with co-op.

>>2902285
It really comes down to your preferences. They are quite different, besides using the same engine and being hard.

>>2902280
It is just really, really hard starting out. The first episode is the hardest episode because it is the slowest to give you new weaponry. Power through it and play on the default skill 'lightly broiled'.

Most of the enemies are hitscan, so don't run blindly around corners. Quick peek then back to cover. Then throw some TNT

Do none of you faggots ever realize that the top two difficulties are meant for co-op only? If you play them anyway, prepare your little white puckered anus: it's about to get enlarged.

>>2902285
Duke maybe, but Shadow Warrior being better is a hell no.

TNT are your friend. The game hands them out to you like candy, make use of them.

>>2902449
Personally I enjoyed Shadow Warrior a lot more than Blood.

>>2902280
This game is simple really, really hard.

I beat it on medium difficulty only by save spamming up the wazoo.

TNT is your friend, so is the flaregun's alt fire (the flare burst)

Learn to deal with each enemy and you'll be fine
>Zombie
Pitchfork if less than 3, TNT or shotgun if more
>Fanatics and Cultists
TNT from around a corner, use alt fire to bounce it. Learn where they are in each level if possible so they never see it coming. Keep throwing TNT until they're all dead while hiding out of sight. Flarebursts are also great if they're in groups.
>Gargoyles
Napalm cannon. 1 hit will kill
>Stone Gargoyle
Voodoo doll. an alt fire or two will kill it, or if you're worried about ammo, just circle strafe him and use regular voodo attack doll on him
>Mice/hands/spiders
Shotgun or Tommy gun. crouching if they're proving hard to hit and you're on the same level as them.
>Gillbeasts
Double shotgun. use the altfire at close range when they swim at you.
>Bloated Butchers
TNT or sawn-off shotgun alt fire. not usually wise to get in a stabbing match with him.
>Hellhounds
Tesla cannon. Deal with these guys quickly, you dont want to be set on fire
>Giant spiders
Tesla Cannon. it interrupts their breeding cycle as well as killing them fast.
>Phantasms
sawn-off shotgun. wait for them to charge you and loose off the alt fire at point blank range when they come out of transparency to attack you.
>Civilian
use kindness to maximum effect. dress their wounds if possible and instruct them on how to set up a triage station. There's going to be a lot of casualties.

It's very hard at first, then gets easier as you get a feel for the enemies. The cultists in particular are hard as fuck in the first level because your first weapons are melee and projectile weapons against their hitscan, but once you get some hitscan of your own, it just becomes routine.

There is a glitch on easier difficulties, if you save and load a save, the enemies will actually do a lot more dmg than they should.

IIRC this glitch doesn't happen on skill 3 and 4 (Lightly broiled and well done). Extra Cripsy is insane, and is meant for coop, but is doable if you're good at the game. Well Done is totally doable for singleplayer.

The game may seem hard at first because it doesn't quite play like your typical Doom-like. You can't just pick any weapon, jump into a situation, and get away with a couple of strafing movement. You need to pick your weapon, and even its fire mode (primary or alt) depending on your enemy and on the situation. Once you get the hang of it it's not that hard and it's tons of fun.
It is more challenging in the sense that it takes more learning than your regular Doom-like, because it has a deeper gameplay.

Hard and awesome

>>2902471
>that last comment

>>2902617
Was that glitch patched? Like, in the GOG version?

>>2902797
In skill 3 and 4, there is no glitch, so I never bothered to look for a patch since I've only ever played on skill4 (and 3 when I played it for the first time).

On skill 1 and 2, enemies deal more dmg after you load a save. Like, loading a middle level save on skill 1, enemies will deal MORE dmg than on skill 5! it's crazy.

On skill 5, loading a save will make enemies deal less dmg... about as much as they do on skill1. Sheesh.

A quick google search gives me this for a fix but I don't know how reliable it is.
http://www.gog.com/forum/blood_series/glitch_damage_scaling_changes_when_loading_fix_inside

More like really-really bad with god awful hitscan enemies and boring visuals. Blood is just an extremely overrated. Cryptic Passage is an alright map pack, though. And for fuck's sake, even Rednecks Rampage had better level design and miles better atmosphere.
>>2902285
Vanilla Duke is pretty meh, first two map packs are great, though.
>>2902449
Shadow Warrior is the best of them, pleb.

>>2902280
The hit-scanners are slightly too fast and precise. Otherwise it's perfect.

>>2902439
>Do none of you faggots ever realize that the top two difficulties are meant for co-op only?
no, only extra crispy is coop only

blood is played best on well done

Blood = Duke > Shadow Warrior

Learn to manipulate the cultists' AI
They're the most dangerous enemies in harder difficulties.

>Hitscanners are too hard

I think its more that Blood went for a slightly more realistic slant on gun combat than your average Doom / get shot 100 times and still not dead FPS's.

Liberal use of cover and hitscanning is not a problem, just like in a real firefight, you want to be in cover. You dont just run at guys with guns.

"Hitscanning" isn't the issue, its just a way of handling bullets without actually spawning a projectile. Its that the doom babbies dont like actually getting killed by bullets.

>>2903498

Blood definitely went for a different style of gunplay than even Duke3D or SW. Whether that led to pissed-off doom babbies or simply pissed-off Duke vets I can't say.

>>2902936

I always thought Well Done was "Coop Easy" and Extra Crispy was "Coop Hard".

>>2903531
>I always thought Well Done was "Coop Easy" and Extra Crispy was "Coop Hard".
nah pic related is from the manual, which comes with some pretty nifty stuff as all old video game manuals did. if you've got the gog version it comes as a pdf file.

here's some tidbits from the manual

>>2903678
3

>>2903678
>>2903684
aw shit

>>2903717
>rats, bats, and spiders
Creativity at its finest.

>>2903715
>>2903714

It still pisses me off that Beast Vision is nearly useless and they fucking _forgot_ the filter to indicate invulnerability. I mean, how the fuck does the Deathmask glitch never even come up once during testing?

>>2902797

Never knew this. Man, does Blood need a binary hacker... 0-o

>>2903830
>It still pisses me off that Beast Vision is nearly useless
you should play the death wish fan expansion. bloatoid did a fine job of incorporating it in a few levels, particularly in one of the secret ones.

>>2903846

If he'd ever finish 1.4 I might. As it is it's 2hard4u bullshit. A fan expansion should not be more difficult than the rest of Blood combined.

>>2902280
Learn your weaponry.

Op here , surprised to see this thread is still up, I read through all what you said, been playing the game nearly all night its really challenging but definitely not unfair, loving it!

>>2902280
>Am I simply not well adjusted to the difficulty and speed of old school fps
Well, if you're not used to oldschool fps that is definately part of it but, it is pretty hard, yeah. Don't feel too shit.

>>2902285
Correct, but Blood ain't bad.

>>2902285
Fuck off shitter

What's the best way to play this game outside of unearthing a DOS computer to play on? I read that it plays like shit in DOSBox and there's no source port, so what's a fella to do?

>>2904536
DOSbox is the only solution? What are your specs? On a 2,5ghz dualcore I could only play the game at 320*200 to have 60fps at all times, but with a 3,2ghz quadcore I can play it at 800*600 (anything above 800*600 barely makes a difference in Build anyway). I heard number of cores don't matter for DOSbox though.

There is this tutorial, using a specific version of DOSbox makes the game run better. I've tried and personaly I didn't notice any difference, but some people claim it does wonders on their computer.
http://www.gog.com/forum/blood_series/make_blood_run_1280x1024_resolution_smooth_did_you_know/page1

Otherwise, try different output methods for DOSbox and see what runs best on your computer.

>>2904536
It plays great in dosbox.

>>2903827
These standards are easily balanced out with the glorious enemy that is the cultist and fanatics. The voice acting is supreme, and they even invented their own combi-language for their lines. Bloated butchers and gill beasts are also pretty unique.

>>2902285
This was my opinion at age 12.

Now I appreciate the grown-up nature and challenge factor of Blood. The setting and story combined with the glorious gameplay and level design put it far ahead of all FPSs of its time.

Will we see a sourceport soon?
That's my only gaming wish for 2016

>>2903706
the sawn off shotgun is just spot on in this gem

>>2904782
Not as long as Atari is still around.

>>2902285

Come on, that's objectively wrong. Blood has the best gameplay and a great setting, Duke has slightly worse gameplay but a, for me, better setting and character. Shadow warrior is fun, but the gameplay is slightly worse than the others (the weapons are odd and lack some feeling) and the setting/character is wonky.

Should I play v.1.11 or v.1.21?
What are the differences?

>>2904873
why would you play an older version? play the latest one.

i downloaded an older version off an abandon ware website once and it was missing episode 5 expansion. there were also little differences here and there, like the flare gun would make cultists flinch upon impact. iirc it was also lacking that nice bouncy weighty effect you have with your weapon when you jump and land etc, was a lot more static. other stuff i don't recall, too.

just play the newest one.

>>2904873
1.21 is what you get with GOG and it's compatible with the Plasma Pak and Cryptic Passage expansions. Fan expansions like Death Wish also use 1.21. No brainer desu.

>>2904809
What's the story behind that image?

>>2904893
>>2904905
I heard that the newest version has a glitch that messes with the difficulty when you load a saved game.
I also heard something about not being able to get rid of the hands when they grab you.

>>2902280
I don't know your past experiences with the genre, but blood is pretty brutal, especially during the first episode, which unfortunately is also the most charming. Later you will hopefully have less problems, due to your experience and better weapons, but be prepared for more bullshit situations.

>>2904946
The handglitch is in an older version, definitely not in 1.21.

I'm pretty sure the difficulty glitch is in older versions. Just play on skills3 or 4, they don't glitch. That or try the fix I posted above ITT (haven't tried it myself).

I know someone who runs a fanwebsite for Blood and I asked him for a list of all version revisions so I might be able to post that at some point.

>>2904946
The handglitch is in an older version, definitely not in 1.21.

I'm pretty sure the difficulty glitch is in ever y version. Just play on skills3 or 4, they don't glitch. That or try the fix I posted above ITT (haven't tried it myself).

I know someone who runs a fanwebsite for Blood and I asked him for a list of all version revisions so I might be able to post that at some point.

>>2904946
>I also heard something about not being able to get rid of the hands when they grab you.
that's a dosbox related issue. it has to do with your cpu and dosbox and it wasn't present in the original game running on dos/win 95/98.

>>2902939
i can agree with this. i feel like blood offers a different atmosphere entirely to duke and duke is more fun overall but i cannot really pick a favorite between the two while shadow warrior had extremely varied maps in terms of quality

of course, blood is the most consistent with quality. there is no 'that episode' for me like episode 3 in duke (which isn't actually that bad but just isnt all too fun to go through). really good games though

>>2906336
>episode 3 in duke
But that's the best episode.

>>2906383
>flying suicide robots around every corner which take longer to kill than your average pig cop
no fuck you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYXNUnbP68k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13BVb9-6P4A

Which game had better weapons?

>>2906401
Even though I adore Dynamite, I have to go with SW on this one.

>Sword that's good the entire game
>Dual Uzis
>Grenade Launcher
>a fucking nuke
>Railgun
>Guardian Head
>Ripper Heart

The Riot Gun is ass, though, and the Sticky Bombs are the least fun hand explosives out of the Build games.

>>2906401
Blood has better gunplay. Each weapon has an alt mode, so you have a wider diversity of moves to choose from. Plus there is real weapon management, saving ammo, picking the right weapon in the right situation... in SW, even if you do Katana start on the highest difficulty, weapon management is simple.

Besides for me all the weapons are fun to use in Blood, AND do have their use; unlike in Shadow Warrior in which a couple of weapons are weaker and their only use is "just when you don't have any other weapon".

SW has a grenade launcher though, that's tons of fun to use; but it's beat by the grenade launcher of the Duke Nukem 64.

>>2906396
That's episode 2

>>2906336
ep. 1>ep. 4>ep. 3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ep. 2

>TFW you learn about using the no monsters command paramater and just take the time to take in the map design, textures, and ambient sound use
game is atmopshereic as fuck, turning off the music makes it almost creepier with all the hums, rattlings, wind, and other sound effects

>>2906852
If you're talking about Douk then
3 > 4 > 1 > 2

>>2902280
Probably both.
Though Blood typically requires a few things.
If you don't know where everything is, you need to progress very slowly but react very fast. If you move too fast without knowing where shit is, you'll get chewed up. If you progress slowly but react slowly, you'll still get picked apart and overwhelmed in situations. Get used to switching weapons fast and don't be afraid to jump over enemies. Don't lock yourself into corners and avoid being out in the open. Early on you might want to conserve ammo a bit, feel free to poke zombies with your melee since they're slow as dog shit, you can dance them to death by simply tapping back and fourth and I believe side to side (or circle strafe them) as well as they swing. Whichever doesn't get your ass in the open or surrounded by more with a low ceiling. Choke point them if possible. Save long distance ammo for long distance enemies primarily. Once you get past the first few stages it should get, easier, not easy but easier.
Once you start memorizing levels you'll be able to run it in your sleep. It's not as forgiving as Duke3D where you can take some shots and there's ammo and health to be found a bit more liberally and the enemies in Blood tend to be far far quicker on the trigger, they will occasionally blast you before you even completely clear visibility on a corner if you're in their line of sight. If I recall ducking helps, possibly even negating shots.

>>2906401
Blood. The weapons are satisfying as fuck to use and have excellent functionality, every single one being useful throughout. Two hallmarks of great gunplay right there. On top of that there's the alternate fire modes (SW has this, too, but you have to select the alt fire before firing, whereas in the Blood the alt fire itself blasts on a button press resulting in more dynamics) and throwing mechanics. I also love the originality of Blood's weapons and the way they look.

My biggest gripe with SW is actually the weapons. While they're cool on paper, they feel so underwhelming to shoot, whereas in Blood you really feel like you're wrecking shit up. I mean the riot gun is such a piece of shit to shoot. It also looks like shit. I'm amazed that SW actually managed to make something as awesome as dual uzis feel like shit. If SW had more satisfying shooting I'd like it way more but as it stands its my least favourite of the BUILD trilogy mainly because of that reason. I'm speaking relative to Duke and Blood though and being harsh. It's still a great game and one of the best games I've ever played.

>>2906769
i guess you are right. i had to open it up to check, this better not be an extremely elaborate ruse

>>2904735
Its as good as you can get. It runs fine (for the most part), but it really bothers me how sluggish bmouse is.

>>2906906
i recommend just turning off mouselook since it isn't necessary anyways and is a pain in the ass

>>2906906
you dont need bmouse. Just press U in game to get mouselook

>>2906969
mouselook in the original build engine executables is horrible. bmouse's purpose is to try and fix that but it isn't perfect either

>>2906963
mouselook is goddamn necessary in Blood at least for dynamite.

>>2906990
thats where the mouselook button comes into play. everything other than projectiles affected by gravity are much easier to use as of right now without mouselook. of course this will all change once a modern port is release

>>2906972

I found it did just fine. :/

>>2907025

There's not going to be a modern port any time soon. I wouldn't pin my hopes on fucking Lucius or his XLEngine. And Atari basically pulled a Zenimax with the original source code.

>>2907036
FAITH MY FRIEND
YOU NEED IT

>>2907025
I don't see myself press and unpress the U key anytime I want to use a dynamite.

Also btw with bmouse I find mouselook perfect in build games. Even without it, I had grown used to the difference in sensibility with diagonals.

and BTW some people complain about mouselook in EDuke32 and Megaton too so maybe a sourceport wouldn't change anything...

The fast paced combat, satisfying weapons, decent level design and charm make Blood a very enjoyable experience, but the fact that it is nearly impossible to dodge enemy fire screws it up a bit, slows down the combat somewhat and makes the game seem a lot harder

>>2907089
>but the fact that it is nearly impossible to dodge enemy fire screws it up a bit
You can dodge cultists by crouching + strafing. It fucks with their aim. You can dodge by two button strafing, too, if you do it right. Jumping also helps.