/vr/ - Retro Games

It's been getting a shit load of praise recently. A lot more than it deserves to be honest, even though I don't think it was all that bad.

VII is the most underrated FF game at this point because everyone and their mother would swear on the bible that it's the worst game ever made and belongs on an Action 52 cart

Really, the only 3 things I don't like about FF2 is the character progression system, Ultima being bugged and bosses being susceptible to instant death.

>>2878451
Underrated? Nah I'd say that goes to Demensions due to it being regarded as a shitty phone game most of the time.

As a /vr/ safe suggestion? Maybe, I don't know if I'd agree to that off the top of my head. While it doesn't get as much backlash as FF2 I would argue FF3 is more underrated.


>>2878460
I think that not being able to live up to it's legacy combined with blatant isn't really equivalent to being underrated.

>>2878487
Was any of that fixed for its release in FF Origins?

>>2878460
>VII is the most underrated FF game at this point

>>2878510

Why would they be "fixed"? None of those things are bugs.

>Ultima bug

The developer stated this was intentional, as a life lesson to players.

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/10/20/final-fantasys-first-ultima-spell-useless/

Ultima was nonetheless made useful in later iterations, including Origins.

>Character progression

Nothing wrong with this system. Do you also hate on Elder Scrolls? It's the same ordeal.

>Instant-death attacks

git gud

FF1 had even more instant-death attacks than FF2. How did you ever complete the Earth Cave without throwing your controller down in a fit of rage?

>>2878539

Sounds more like a rogue coder did it rather than intention on the Developers part.

>>2878539
That poster had a problem with FFII bosses being vulnerable to instant death attacks, not enemies using them on you. Which is a silly complaint though, because nobody's forcing you to cheese the game with Toad.

>>2878539
>“As for those who struggled and ultimately acquired it only to find out that it’s useless… well, that’s something that often happens in life. So, I’m not going to fix it!”
That is great. Personally I never get too flustered about things, nor do I always aim for the best items in a JRPG. It is often fun to see what you can do with what you've scraped up. Kind of reminds me of the Zodiac Spear in FFXII. A complex thing for something that isn't that huge of a boost.

When people stop being obsessive about doing every single little thing is the instant they will become free of pain. Some people find such items as a huge downside in a game which can negatively effect the entire experience. I personally don't give a fuck.

>>2878539
>The developer stated this was intentional, as a life lesson to players.

There's a difference between a codemonkey being a shitter and trying to sweep his mistakes under the rug (or just plain being a dick), and a conscious design decision by the development team.

The cunt was even ordered to hand over the source so it could be fixed but obfuscated it before doing so.

>>2878539
>Ultima was nonetheless made useful in later iterations, including Origins.
It really wasn't. You get it too late in the game for it to be worth using over your higher level spells, the supposed effect it gets from your combined spell levels barely does anything (especially considering a good number of spells are borderline useless and/or will never reach very high levels unless you grind like a bitch) and it's non-elemental, meaning you're probably better off using basic elemental spells on some enemies instead of spending time leveling up everything for Ultima.

I've seen people reach 9000 damage with it, but for that I'm pretty sure you need to get all your skill/spell levels really high, which is frankly entirely unnecessary in a regular playthrough. Also, you should probably read that article again because it sure as hell says that it WASN'T intentional.

I played through the first six games a few years back and never understood why people hated 2 so much. It was different; not necessarily bad, just different. I thought the whole give and take level progression was a neat concept. There's also the keyword thing that let you actually talk to people, and it had a pretty involved story, being VI before VI was a thing pretty much. The music is also superb.

While I do think the other games are better, II is still a pretty good game.

There aren't any underrated Final Fantasy games.

>>2878539
>Do you also hate on Elder Scrolls? It's the same ordeal.
It doesn't work here because in this game stats decrease the more you use others, not to mention in a fairly linear jrpg setting it makes the game more grindy as opposed to the Elder Scrolls where you can run off and do other shit to level up.

>>2879261
This. The least overrated would probably be either VIII or IX.

>>2879330
>linear
Only if you use a guide like a dumb idiot

>>2879341
IX is pretty damn overrated for the blaring (admittedly hardware related) flaws it has. It's a fine game that could have been better if not rushed and put on the PS2

No. That accolade goes to the FF game with the least nostalgia factor.

>>2878539
>The developer stated this was intentional, as a life lesson to players.
I didn't know about the "life lesson." I always thought it was a bug.

>Nothing wrong with this system. Do you also hate on Elder Scrolls? It's the same ordeal.
A system that allows you to hit yourself to gain stats, most of the spells in the game being useless for multiple reasons and evade > armor is why I don't really like the character progression.

>git gud
Look up susceptible in a dictionary, you're embarrassing yourself. Also, I hope you meat the Ice Cave. The Earth Cave is cake.

>>2878574
Yeah it's silly, but just the thought being able to insti kill bosses makes me think why? I guess if someones having trouble, they can cheese their way past it. I considered it against the Lamia Queen. Blink 16 and Charm 9 are ridiculous, especially in the NES version.

>>2879652
I don't think FF2j really has any kind of nostalgia factor (especially compared to FF3j) but I agree with your conclusion.

>tfw want to play some other FFs
>no longer a kid so I can't focus on it, always give up after a couple hours
>end up replaying the same FFs I grew up with (7 and 8)
I wish I could develop a connection with a game but I feel like I'm too old, life puts too much pressure on me despite being a neet, I can't relax enough to get immersed into an rpg anymore
it sucks

>>2878496
>not being able to live up to it's legacy
but it does just fine
FFVII is a phenomenal game, with amazing graphics and music, a lot of substance and a gripping story, a wonderful, immersive setting, great and likeable characters (for the most part) and the only issue it has is that people just hate it because it's so popular
it's the same as evangelion, when something is a masterpiece but is too popular for its own good

>>2879652
I will still stand strong by my opinion that III was actually the weakest of the NES FFs.

>>2880689
>it's the same as evangelion, when something is a masterpiece but is too popular for its own good

You see, if you actually left this out it would have been a great bait.
But you didn't, you must learn that simplicity is the greatest virtue anon, no experienced troll should make such mistake.
6.5/10

>>2880780
>saying that FFVII is great is now considered bait
case in point

>>2878460
Just because hipsters have been bashing it lately doesn't mean that it's underrated. The vast majority of gamers still considers it one of the best.

Although I don't think I'll be able to finish it, myself. It's kind of boring.

>>2880780
But you're wrong. People do only hate it because it is popular.

>>2878451
Why are the Bombs facing the player and not the party?

>>2880789
And saying that FFVII isn't that good as most people say is considered hating it because it's popular and not because it has glaring faults and overblown qualities, just like any popular game.
Case in point.
>>2880820
Not really, but believe what you want if that makes you sleep at night.
>>2880837
The artwork of the original games is based off Amano's sketches like pic related.

>>2880860
I'd be interested to hear some criticisms you have for FFVII.
Pls no non-arguments like "it's boring" or "the models are legos".

>>2880884
The music is bad.

>>2880897
You HAVE to be baiting right now.
I hate to dismiss posts as bait when it could just as likely be the opinion of a complete retard but no this HAS to be bait.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBRAkpXTmCs

>>2880884
>"it's boring"
It is boring.
> "the models are legos"
Actually, I think that's one of its strong points as it ties into the old aesthetic of the series fairly well, I like the models's design and idea behind them and I'm glad other games tried and still try to do chibi poligonal model like the 7nth Dragon series.

It's not like there's a lot of specific criticism to be applied, as it suffers from the same exact problems most FF suffered.

The game's too easy, there's no challenge at all and it's far too easy to get overpowered early on, everything is handed to you and there's no real reason to explore or go out of your way since there's hardly any noteworthy reward or challenge, except the last limit break subquests. Minigames are all fine and dandy but don't really add any noteworthy substance to the game, which is barebones and really really shallow and boring on the first disc already.

Characters are all clones of each others with the only notable difference being their limit breaks and equipment. There's no point in specializing anyone in one strategy since they all do the same thing well enough until Cloud gets the Ultima Weapon, which is really the only thing that sets him apart from the rest of the cast.

The cast is rather small and cliched, certain characters are rather badly handled, like Cait Sith or Yuffie. What's the point of making Cait Sith sacrifice itself and then make him return not even 3 seconds later in a different body, back in my days old bearded men fought with 0 HP until they killed the boss you were fighting against and then they died and they died for real. What's the point of making a dickass ninja thief that works like any other character in the game?

The plot isn't really anything special, it's drags a lot and too much and it's full of gratuitous bullshit and melodrama much like any other FF or the average JRPG really, I don't really get why this is praised so much when it's the same exact plot structure of 90% of JRPG.

>>2880967
The Materia system is basically the Esper system but somehow more broken, more exploitable and to a certain extent even more tedious to use. ALL materia was a huge mistake.

Summons are useless garbage except Hades and KoR.

Magic is boring and there's no real reason to use it besides healing and maybe casting Haste once in a while, even elemental weaknesses become irrelevant halfway through the first disc.

Game's awfully linear like most of the JRPGs out there, even FFVI at least tried to be more open in the WoR, FFVII is a considerable step back from that.

Enemy design blows, the only dangerous enemies are Morlboros and maybe, just maybe Ghost Ships, Bosses are a joke although some of them have great visual designs or being throwbacks to earlier titles.

Story doesn't really make sense for the most part and its glaring plotholes have been abused to hell with all the outrageously bad spinoffs, the way Cloud's personality dissonance is tied in the story one of the worst cases of terrible writing I've witnessed, which again, served well to spawn a ton of spin offs that sometime make even less sense.

Dungeon design is a hit or miss most of the times, the Temple of the Ancients is great, same with the Shinra Mansion in Nibelheim and to a certain extent the Northern Crater, but everything else is hot garbage.

I'd criticise the narrative choices and plot more but I know that it's mostly a subjective matter.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that FFVII is a straight up bad game, it did a lot of things right, it had great music, great art direction, good cinematic moments,some nicely done Gundam ripoffs, there was a great amount of sidequests and minigames for the time and it put a lot of things from previous games in the series in one neat package, think about having FFV three layers of the overworld, FFVI NotEsper system and all those minigames/sidequests, but at the same time it's not really that good of a game, even for it's time.

>>2880968

Most of the points you make hear just come down to personal opinion. It's fine that you don't like it, but others enjoy the game a lot including myself. Why don't you just agree to disagree? There's no correct opinion.

I actually find the materia system to be great and I enjoy the game's linear style. I liked the story a lot and I thought it made perfect sense. See? We'll never agree, and that's fine. No reason to be angry. :-)

>>2881047
>Most of the points you make hear just come down to personal opinion.
Uh-hu...
>Why don't you just agree to disagree? There's no correct opinion.
I never agreed with you in the first place so I don't really need you to say this, and you're right, there's no correct opinion, but there are facts you deliberately choose to ignore, whether because you don't know any better or because you're a die hard fanboy, or both.
>I actually find the materia system to be great and I enjoy the game's linear style. I liked the story a lot and I thought it made perfect sense.
Good for you I guess, just don't come crying to /vr/ when people with actual taste point out the game's faults and deficiencies.

>>2878451
I'd say FF3. It's one of my favorites in the series, like a proto-FF5 (which is my favorite in the series), but everyone seems to rate it super low, even people that rank FF5 highly.

>>2881089

Why are you so mad, dude? Why can't you just let that guy disagree with you?

>>2878451

I think people are giving it another chance because of the PSP/GBA remakes that get rid of the most glaring issues with the NES version.

With the updated script, and bug fixes, it better realized the vision that they had for FF2.

I think it's fair to call it semi-underrated.

>>2881203
I'd probably rank FF3 more highly than FF5. I gravitate toward the games that emphasize bizarre and interesting worlds, and FF5's characters didn't appeal to me. I didn't much like the setting in FF5 either, except for World 2.

To be honest I don't think they're really that similar, even though they both have a job system.

>>2881709
>With the updated script, and bug fixes, it better realized the vision that they had for FF2.
Can't be too sure if it is a better realized version of Final Fantasy II. In both the NES and PS1 versions of Final Fantasy II they had stats that either grew or diminished depending upon your actions in battle. I am sure there was a reason for this, such as making defined classes rather than be a jack of all trades due to that character being fairly ineffective in all of them unless you really liked grinding.

>>2882123
Yeah people actually complain about that feature

>>2882138
Surely it isn't the truly realized game then. Another team obviously handled the remakes. Remember, the man behind Final Fantasy II is the same one behind Unlimited Saga. Being friendly with stat growth or sharing every single detail of its mechanics isn't one of the things he is known for.

The PSP/GBA remakes are neutered versions of the original game.

>>2881475
Nobody is forcing him to agree, if anything he's the one asking people to agree with him.
>>2881709
>With the updated script, and bug fixes, it better realized the vision that they had for FF2.

It didn't, they removed critical features such as stat penalties when leveling up and making stat growth more lax, it actually made the game more different from what the designer had envisioned.
Origins on PS is the only good remake because it still keeps the original mechanics untouched albeit removing a few bugs, all the other ports/remakes are inaccurate.

>>2882240
This

Then again, the Int/Soul penalties kind of made most armor in the game useless. It's one of many reasons why evade is so much better than defense imo.

>>2878451
I played 2 and final fantasy 4 advance they're pretty good games all in all but i still prefer 7 or 8.

>>2879251
its pretty similar to final fantasy 1 really

>>2880683
the older ones are actually pretty good i recommend 1 and 2, the graphics arent amazing and they arent amazing on 7 or 8 either.
the storylines on both are pretty good and they're well built games

>>2880884
the satanic scene at the honeybee inn was pretty off-putting

>>2882291

Heavy armor was a privilege you had to earn. Once your Agility and Evasion were sufficiently leveled up, the penalties weren't so devastating. Throw a shield into the mix and you'll likely still be pushing max Evasion.

Spellcasting isn't entirely out of the question, for that matter. Your most useful spells are those that inflict instant KO, like Mini and Toad. These won't be inhibited by INT / Soul penalties.

>>2882324

lol wut

>>2882354
you can find it in youtube if you havent seen it or you can just play up to that point

>>2882364

No, I mean why would it be off-putting? Are you some conservatard Christian or something?

>>2882383
its just pretty creepy in general pretty outta place

>>2882327
It's been years since I played FF2, so I don't quite remember some things, but didn't INT/Soul and magic resist affect the rate of hitting instant KO spells or is it a flat rate not matter what? Regardless, I avoid those because it makes the game retarded easy, except Life.

I just equip a weapon and shield on everyone and buy 8 spells, but only practice 6 of them, throughout the game. Berserk stacking and Life being the 2 most important spells.

I also remember lots of enemies using drain attacks later on and since those are % based, it goes right through your defense.

>>2879652
I agree that FFIII is the most underrated NES game. Nobody barely talks about it.

III has the best OST.

I've only played the first Final Fantasy game, and when I bring that up people tell me that the first FF doesn't count as an FF game.

From that, I'm to conclude that Final Fantasy 1 is the most underrated due to not being a Final Fantasy game, apparently

>>2883826
>the first FF doesn't cound as a FF game

You're either speaking with children or idiots.
Perhaps both.

>>2880683
Its not to bad
I've been in a constant loop of replaying 1-10+12 for almost 15 years now
I dont replay them in any particular order but I am almost always in the middle of a playthrough of one. It gets even worse if you count all the side games

>>2880967
>>2880968
I think you just dont like JRPGs

>>2882061
Well I think I like 5 more because it does the job system better (in my opinion). Less punishment for trying out different jobs, in fact it's encouraged thanks to that extra ability you can have, while I mostly stuck with what I already had in FF3 unless it was downright impossible to beat the boss (fucking Garuda fuck you).

FF3 I did think had the more interesting world though, I agree. I've said it a lot before but first going to pic related gave me chills, I had no clue what to do and the water was just so big, took me a while to find the landmass I needed and wandering in the sunken no-mans-land was incredibly atmospheric, especially for NES.

>>2883826
FFI is probably the best desu

>>2884092
It's one of my favorite genres, so no.