/vr/ - Retro Games

What the fuck am I looking at? cant even make out what bowser is doing on left

What the fuck does that gesture even MEAN?

>>2814071
>>2814072
nazi swastika

>>2814071
>>2814072
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras_d'honneur

>>2814075
Stop shitposting.

can't see shit what is he even doing in the jap one?

>>2814071
>>2814072

Looks like the advanced type of "the finger" (the one where you put your one hand on the biceps of the arm doing the gesture) without the finger.

>>2814084
He's giving you the "up yours" gesture.

>>2814085
>>2814082
>>2814089


oh that makes sense I guess.

>>2814085
This is close, it's "bitch" in sign language. Or, at least that's what my ASL acquaintance told me. Either way, it's pejorative.

funny enough, the opposite is true for doom64

>>2814124
Slimey green water looks better and makes more sense. a pool of red transparent blood is retarded.

>>2814124
I actually like the green color much better

>>2814072
You never did that as a kid? It's basically UP YOURS.

>"cafes"

In Super Mario Kart, in the trophy screen, Peach and Bowser are shown drinking the champagne in the japanese version (Peach was already drunk, it seems).

In Breath of Fire I, Karn was called Danc, and had blackface.
In Breath of Fire IV, several allusions to nudity and drinking were removed. Also, there's a beheading near the ending of the game. In the english version, the screen changes to a silhouette, and some sounds play instead.

Removal of children from the European versions of Fallout. Weirdly, they just made them invisible - you can still hover the cursor over them, and they have "banter" text over their heads.

The Happy Happyism cult guys in Earthbound - in the original, they looked like a purple version of the KKK.

>>2814084
It's a Japanese gesture that means "I'm strong" but pretty much everywhere else means "up yours."

Another anon linked an article that describes the obscene gesture.

>>2814124
In basically all Castlevania games the Japan version has roman statues in the background and they're nude, they're always covered up for western audiences

>>2814186

>>2814191
here it is in castlevania 4

>>2814196
Why does he have Earthworm Jim arms?

>>2814198
furthermore, any time there is a cross it is removed in the American version of all Castlevania games on a nintendo system.

In graveyards, on the opening,

>>2814202
frog a strong

Something Something Breath of Fire 4

I would play a fan-translation/patch of the original Japanese game in a fucking heartbeat. I'm kind of surprised nobody's made one yet.

>>2814065
FFVI's GBA port, and specifically this port, censored Celes' beating scene in all languages. It was either about ratings or some killer that was running around Japan at the time.

>>2814203
on all coffins

>>2814124
I thought it was poison

Missing cig in EBZ

Also, removed crosses and altered stage design

Im so glad American is protecting my pure virgin eyes form these offensive female bodies.

>>2814186
The censoring of this one went out to modern times too. I remember Pokemon RSE at least did it with a sailor, but it was a lot more subtle.

>>2814216
forgot image

>>2814218
There was also the final boss. Only just recently did Kefka get uncensored in hacks. He was a pain in the ass for most because of background fuckery.

I love how /v/ goes on and on about modern "tumblr feminist" censorship while dropping gems like "but nobody cared about that in the 90's!" This shit has been going on since times immemorial, before tumblr or current wave feminism were even in planning, and the same soccer "pokemon is satanic" mom cultural mindset continues to drive censorship in gaming even today.

>>2814235
When I was a kid, my parents banned all satanic stuff including D&D. Except for Baldur's gate, but only if I didn't play as a mage.

Cute monsters in balls is against god, but slaughtering people with an axe? A OK.

>>2814235
/v/ doesn't know shit about video games. A shocker.

Also from the /v/ meme vault: Only losers used to play video games. But that's for another /vr/ thread. I was thinking about whipping up a bunch of proof and evidence that "normies" played games and that it was a mainstream activity back in the day.

But that's for another day, as I said.

>>2814245
not cool, you literally just copied that anecdote from DidYouKnowGaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpzVmz5GYds

>>2814065
>THINK OF THE CHILDREN

They won't give a fuck

American one is better because it's clearer what he's doing.

>>2814314
And here I thought my wit was original.

>>2814218
Are these sprites all from the Kefka fight in FF6, or are they from other games too? They all look familiar...

>>2814235
I just think it's funny that the demographic leading the charge has shifted from completely out of touch soccer moms to young overeducated trust fund kids.

>>2814203
They also removed DRACURA

>>2814205
>HURR DURR DURR FROG A STRONG

Answer the goddamn question, earthworm jim wasn't even strong (heck he even struggles to carry some pigs around on the 2nd game), so why frog has his arms.

>>2814421
strong frog is strong

>>2814421
I think it symbolizes him leveling up. Getting stronger. That or its just his victory pose. I havent played chrono trigger in a long time.

>>2814235
/v/ is mad at tumblr feminists because /pol/ has ordered them to be mad at tumblr feminists. Nobody there knows anything about old video games or how the industry has always been dragged down by faggots-of-the-month like Jack Thompson, Focus on the Family, etc.

> Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back - A death animation in which Crash is squashed into a stunned head and feet was altered for the Japanese version of the game due to its resemblance to the severed head and shoes left by a serial killer loose in Japan at the time.

>>2814431
It's his victory pose.

>>2814439
People give us shit for the sex puritanism but at least we DGAF about murder, what with our weekly school shootings.

Was Castlevania Bloodlines being renamed to The New Generation censorship?

>>2814431
Cuz he a strong you fucking dildo warming faggot.

So do you think censorship happens due to actual outrage, or because some guy needs to justify his position of "cultural sensitivity adviser"? I mean if Hideki looks over 50 games and doesn't find anything wrong with them, you start to question what Hideki is spending his time doing, but if Hideki says "Oh yeah, crosses will make American Christians flip the fuck out." Or Christian the US Christian is trying to save American children from the foreign devilry, where the unbaptized live in sin and they don't get that they should cover those shameful statues up.

Seems far more likely there is some asshole in localization who got payed to find shit that was wrong even if it wasn't a big deal than anyone legitimately thinking this shit would be a problem. Then again, shit like pic related exists, so who the fuck knows?

>>2814235

I still remember 11 years ago when it was all the old conservatives who wanted video games banned. Now /v/ makes it seem like conservatives are the heroes

>>2814435
It's the shift from getting criticized by old right-wingers to getting criticized by young left-wingers that nobody expected.

>>2814475
The issue flip flopped when liberals decided to think of the children and Christians stopped giving a shit because some developers pushed the bar with shit like doom and diablo.

>>2814065
That's not even an offensive gesture, jesus christ Nintendo. He's just showing his biceps off. It's the same move you see in anime all the time.

Anyway, there's this shit. Stupid then, stupid now. Nintendo never changes.

>>2814475
We all know about jack thompson, the narc, mortal kombat and night trap ban.

>>2814486

When it comes to actual politicians, though, it's still only the old conservatives who complain about violent video games and such. It's very rare that actual liberal politicians care about these things.

For some fun/disturbing insights into the minds of censors back then, read up on "The Expurgation of Maniac Mansion" on crockford.com.

>>2814497
>not an offensive gesture
It absolutely is an offensive gesture.

>>2814521
mcintosh whines about that shit all the fucking time, but he's not a politician

I've always been more fascinated by the different storylines publishers would come up with between regions over obvious graphical changes. Like how Contra always took place in the future in Japan, the main character in the Mega Drive Shadow Dancer was actually Joe Musashi's son and Marian wasn't really the final boss in Double Dragon III.

With that said, I'm fascinated that Kojima actually canonized the idea of the Big Boss in Outer Heaven being a different person from Snake's CO in FOXHOUND, even if he wasn't literally inspired by the NES localization of Metal Gear 1.

>>2814538
That's not for this thread. Localization =/= censorship.

And even though it's off topic, someone make a thread about the MG NES story. Shit's funny as hell.

>>2814180
>The Happy Happyism cult guys in Earthbound - in the original, they looked like a purple version of the KKK.

- Bars also became cafes in this game
- Ness was nude in Magicant (JP) - in his pajamas (US)
- Had to change the red trucks to look less like Coca-Cola, and had to remove the red crosses off the hospitals - copyright reasons
The weirdest one was that Threed was Threek in Japanese. Censors were afraid people would equate Threek = Three k = KKK.
....

I think some of the funniest censorship is in Chrono Trigger, all the mentions of alcohol/drinking were replaced with soda/caffeine. In the prehistoric time, the 'soup' is actually some kind of alcohol.
....

>>2814527
This is very interesting, and that game got censored quite a lot. I had one of the early NES carts where you could still mess with Ed Jr's hamster...

>>2814431
I don't think that explain why he has earthworm jim arms, that only explains why his arms are that size on CT, not why squeenix riped off by Shiny Ent.

>>2814454
>hurr durr bloodlines was censored

You're delusional.

>>2814591
Didn't they removed dripping blood, and the nude statue orgy font in new generation?

>>2814538
Haha! Oh, my. I think I feel asleep.

>>2814598
I... I don't know anon I just wanted to call you delusionalforgive me

>>2814497
>He's just showing his biceps off

>>2814209
I've read the original script, and I've gotta tell you it's all over the place. See those weird place names? All Korean. Untranslated.

>>2814467
According to some guy who worked on Nintendo of America, they do it because of a single reason - money. They don't care about the product at all, but if they can introduce a "localization change", Nintendo of Japan has to pay them to change the code, work on the graphics and other stuff. It's gotten to the point that even Nintendo of Europe publicly takes jabs at NoA, since they now localize games separately (so yeah, you have two English versions...)

>>2814582
In Chrono Trigger's case, it's kind of weird, because you see them talking about soup/soda pop in a bunch of places, when it's pretty clear (by dialogue alone) that the characters are getting drunk out of their asses. If Lucca's line "I was a perfect lady last night" doesn't capture this perfectly, I don't know what does.

>>2814624
>If Lucca's line "I was a perfect lady last night" doesn't capture this perfectly, I don't know what does.

That was in reference to her pigging out on food.

>>2814452
God bless America and her gun culture.

>>2814497
You're joking, right? The "fist into the air whilst holding your biceps" gesture is definitely an offensive gesture. It's basically a fuck you without showing the middle finger.

>>2814618
>being this young on an adult board.

>>2814586
Cuz frog a strong you fucking cock holster.

>>2814651
I guess they intended to look like he's flexing his biceps.

>>2814653
>randomly accusing people of being underage for no reason makes me feel like a badass.

kay

Here's a good one. In I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, the Nimdok character was removed from the game in Germany because he's a Nazi doctor and his chapter takes place inside a concentration camp. This makes the game unwinnable because at the end you need every character's special item to get the good ending.

>>2814591
I'm sorry? I was just asking a question. It's called Bloodlines in the States and New Generation in Europe. It made me wonder if they renamed it because it had "blood" in the title. No need to be a faggot about it.

>>2814656
He can be as strong as he wants, buy copying Earthworm's arms for that you have to be such a retarded company you fucking turbo nigglet

>>2814586
Back in the middle ages it was common to wear tights underneath your tunic and chainmail and whatnot, think of those full body long underpants from old cartoons and such, Frog is wearing white tights that cover his arms and a pair of blue gloves which is not sufficient to justify a violation of copyright, since any innumerable designers may choose to create a character with white suit/undersuit and blue gloves.

Specifically, how Nintendo tried to kill Sega with a smear campaign using this SNES-CD game, and stabbed Digital Pictures in the back while doing so.

Ohgon no siro JP
Gladiator US

>>2814452
And daily mass shootings in yhe ghettos....

jesus christ stop calling it censorship.

>>2814558
believe it or not, this entire thread is about localization. Nothing in this thread represents a modicum of censorship. Not a single one of these developers were forced to remove anything. They changed their games in order to promote sales in a different region, which is the definition of localization.

>>2814732
It's a bit blurry, isn't it? I think there are arguments which can be made for both terms, and in the case of most of the examples in this thread, it's a bit of both.

One that I always think of are the Round Earth Society buildings in Uncharted Waters New Horizons, which were originally churches.

Dynamite Headdy had a ton of changes implemented when it came to the west.

>>2814743
censorship refers to a very specific scenario of an outside authority -- often the government -- silencing, altering, or otherwise suppressing things they deem unacceptable.

In these cases, the changes come from within. There is no blur, it's just localization. They are paying money to localize something, so they make changes they feel will bolster sales of their product, full stop. It's not censorship, it's capitalism.

>>2814760
That seems to be a very specific interpretation of the definition.

>>2814760
>In these cases, the changes come from within

Read the thread more. >>2814527 points out how Nintendo censored Maniac Mansion, which wasn't a localization effort, it was a port by which an outside authority which told a publisher what was and what was not acceptable to publish. >>2814676 cites I have No Mouth and I Must Scream, which is quite literally the publisher being forced to remove content because the German government has laws about the portrayal of Nazis.

That's cut and dry censorship. One just happens to be a case where the outside authority makes the publisher censor the thing themselves because they want to put the cost on someone else. You don't get around that by saying "Well, they made the changes themselves, so that's ok". They had to make those changes or all the money they spent porting and localizing a game would go to waste.

Pic related is a clip from Nintendo's policy which is very much an outside authority silencing, altering, or otherwise suppressing things they deem unacceptable.

>>2814760
Wrong. Self-censorship is a thing.
I too thought about it in the restrictive case, but once I read Animal Farm (by George Orwell), I've figured self-censorship accounts for the most cases of censorship.

>>2814802
*realized, not figured

>>2814760
I thought this was a shitty /v/ meme but apparently there are fags who actually believe it

>>2814782
Don't call it a comeback!

>>2814452

>>2814853
Forgot pic*

>>2814532
>>2814651
America here, I never see it used so I'm not offended.

>>2814732
>Not a single one of these developers were forced to remove anything
Except for the ones that were forced to remove things due to copyright reasons, ie. Red Cross on Earthbound's Hospitals
Except for the ones that were forced to remove things due to Nintendo's practices at the time, ie. Religious or Alchoholic imagery or references in just about every goddamn game

>>2814624
point 2 is 100% horseshit, take the otaku propaganda somewhere else

>>2814624
>They don't care about the product at all, but if they can introduce a "localization change", Nintendo of Japan has to pay them to change the code, work on the graphics and other stuff.

That's fucking disgusting.

>>2814732
You don't need to be forced into removing anything for it to be censorship, idiot. You don't need a gun to your head. And if you want to get technical about it then the CEOs or whoever the big shots in charge at the time were did force the change because they all knew they could not release a game that shows nude tits like >>2814714 in the American market. Covering nudity is one of the most basic and common forms of censorship there is.

>>2814624
Nintendo of Europe started doing separate English localizations because Mario Party's copy-pasted script came under fire for using a word that's perfectly acceptable elsewhere in the world but is a bad slang word in the EU.

>>2814903
What word? I bet Germany is the one who got pissed right?

>>2814065
I like the American one better.

>>2814912
The word was "spastic" and no, it wasn't Germany. It was the UK, where spastic is used as an insult.

>>2814582
I don't want to see Ness naked... A welcomed change.

>>2814732
>They changed their games in order to promote sales in a different region, which is the definition of localization.

You're a fuming moron.

>>2814912
It was the UK. "Spastic" over there is the equivalent to "retard."

Fun fact: the train boss in FF8 had actual guts spilling out of him.

>>2815078

Damn, that's actually pretty grotesque.

>>2814582
>Ness was nude in Magicant (JP) - in his pajamas (US)

I actually prefer him in his pajamas for some reason. It's a bit more humorous.

>>2815029
Britistani here, it's a bit worse than "retard", like how Nigger is a step up from Colored.

>>2814439
Source? And by that I mean a YouTube video or concrete proof, not an anecdote from didyouknowgaming

>>2814732
> They changed their games in order to promote sales in a different region
Yet this INVARIABLY and CONSISTENTLY attracts criticism, and never attracts praise, and in some cases it attracts accusations of "whitewashing".

You don't know what you're talking about.

>>2814065

well in absolute fairness that gesture does mean incredibly different things to Americans and the Japanese

as weird as it is, I think I actually like the stutter better. Gives him a bit of charm and quiet drunk samurai is a bit cliche.

but a samurai with a speech impediment as the reason they're silent? I think that's a little neat

>>2815142

I was going to record a video of it, but I fucking spilled ginger beer all over my compooper laptop before I got to do it.

Basically, it's the same animation, but Crash is completely flat. It looks really weird.

>>2814732

People have been allowed to call censorship what it is for decades. Suddenly when it becomes the big thing to bitch about, here come these people suddenly saying "No, no, no, it's only censorship when the government does it! Stop calling it censorship!" show up. Funny that.

>>2815078
Isn't it supposed to be a Thing reference as well? Seriously can't remember if I read that somewhere or not.

>>2815078

It amazes me that FF VII had blood leading up like five or so floors of an office building but VIII had a zombie and a bit of blood on a wall censored.

>>2814782
>*depict random, gratutuitous, and/or excessive violence;

I can understand why they wouldn't want gratuitous or excessive violence, but what's wrong with random violence?

>>2815078
What the fuck? They changed the color really?

>>2814732
Stop censoring our right to call it censorship.

This Swastika structure in Doom's E1M4 got changed into some jumbled bullshit in a later patch.

>>2816468

Considering that Nazi stuff appeared in DOOM II and Wolfenstein never got changed, I doubt that was censorship. I think it got changed for multiplayer reasons. Something to do with spawning or something? Can't remember.

>>2816513
>>2816468
In the IGN interview with Romero, he reveals that he changed it at the request of a war vet.

>>2816468
I remember in Doom II they removed the SS troops in a secret level. But that's only in Doom 3: BFG Edition and of course the German version of Doom II.

>>2814672
It's cuz you are young, I never said underage, but glad for confirmation.

>>2814402
They're a mix of FFVI versions. Every one of them is on a different level on terms of this.

>>2817234
Is Doom the only game to do this sort of thing for troops?

>>2814402
Final boss Kefka had a dude censored because thong.

>>2814538
>vermon cataffy
>venom
VENOM SNAKE CONFIRMED

>>2814760

Oh look, it's this cockholster again.

Listen, fucko- your borderline autistic argument didn't hold water in the thread we had here a few weeks ago that got on this subject. It certainly didn't become any more valid now. And in a few weeks when the subject comes up again, you'll still be just as incorrect. You're convincing nobody by repeating the same tired, trite "It's OK when Corporate does it!" arguments every motherfucking time. You just look like a delusional asshole.

Give it up.

>>2814439
Crash Bandicoot was also edited to only have 3 fingers on a hand instead of 4, because 4-fingered people are Yakuza (and it was easier to remove a finger than add one).

I can kind of understand this kind of change.

>>2818136
Isn't it more to do with butchers or others who work in the meat industry where losing fingers was a common accident?

Abe's Oddysee was changed in a similar manner.

>>2818136
>because 4-fingered people are Yakuza

and bankers

and carpenters

and electricians

and teachers

and nurses

and pilots

and basically everyone on the planet

the censured is shit

>>2814651
In Japan, flexing your arm and putting your hand on it is basically a way of saying "I'm strong/tough/able". Petty sure that's what he's doing.

>>2818238
Forgot pic.

>>2818174
>everyone on the planet

Grammatically and medically speaking, the thumb is still considered a finger.

>>2818238
Pretty sure feeling your own muscles is not strictly Japanese

>>2818253
It probably isn't, but I'm referring to what the gesture 'says'. I see it in One Piece a lot.

>>2818258
Didn't Popeye do that gesture all the damn time?

So here's a question to our German user base, I've always wanted to know... Wolfenstein 3D was banned in Germany, but were you still able to get it trough pirate channels? Were there any penalties, if a copy was found in your possession? Did it feel like a tasty, forbidden fruit to play it?

I mean, how serious was this business?

>>2814873
it's a thing from the 80's and 90's. I am pretty sure the Japanese developers intended Bowser to be showing off his muscles, but at the time this was released in the US, people would have gotten pissed. I mean, it seriously look like Bowser is saying "fuck you for making me do this shit" to the player.

>>2814882
Art is always exists in a constant struggle between stupidly idealistic, or tasteless, creators and pragmatic financiers who would really like to make a return on their investment. Call it censorship, or call it "making a product more palatable to a wider audience".

I mean, covering up nude statues in Castlevania is a shame. Dracula is a sophisticate and a libertine, and classical nudes are exactly what you would expect to find in his home. it also reinforces the idea of the game as a more mature product.

However, do we really need to see Peach getting pissy drunk? or have King's titties flop out when you beat her ass in Art of Fighting? that stuff is just tasteless fanservice and demeaning to the characters. And unless everybody is getting wasted, or there is a shirt-ripping mechanic in the entire game, it will just be off putting and divisive. Remember, Nintendo was trying to resurrect the home gaming market from the grave. They needed their stuff as squeaky clean and professional looking as possible.

>>2814175

Tipsy Peach would be cute as fuck.

>>2818469
>I mean, it seriously look like Bowser is saying "fuck you for making me do this shit" to the player.
Not seeing the problem here.

>>2814452
yeah but as an american, i prefer sex to violence (probably because its not allowed)

>>2814503
yeah i remember lieberman and the beginning of the ESRB

>>2814202
it's a battletoads reference

>>2816468
If they were doing a Wolfenstein reference or something with that swastika they should have reversed it so it'd be correct. If they were trying to do the peaceful Buddhist swastika they fucked up because that's really out of place in Doom. Go back in time and get your shit together id.

>>2814467
Not retro, but IIRC La Pucelle had all the cigarettes and crosses edited out to avoid controversy pre-emptively. So at least some of is probably "let's just not piss off the wackos."

>>2814521
M8 what? The liberal puritanical wankers whine just as much about video games as anyone else

>>2819482
He's arguing that conservative politicians are the ones who whine about video games, not liberals.
Left-leaning citizens are a different kettle of fish; they do plenty of whining, but leftist politicians? Not so much.

>>2814203

DRACURRRRRAAAA

>>2818487

Nintendo apologist detected.

>>2819470
Probably the most noticeable part of that was Croix having an animation where he takes a drag on a cigarette. But since the cig was censored out, he just moves his hand up to his mouth then down again. It sort of bugs me personally that they couldn't even call Poitrene a goddess, but that's not exactly a new thing to localizations.

I remember reading somewhere that the company that did the localization, Mastiff, decided they had to go overboard out of fear of backlash from groups that would get offended by any kind of imagery that they deemed offensive. So it was more or less just paranoia because the company was pretty small and couldn't handle any kind of backlash they might get because of the content. Word on heavily censored games didn't travel as fast back then, so it's hard to say if they would have lost as many sales as they saved by making the silly changes.

>>2814131
you got a point

>hero turtles

>>2820475
I remember this all too well. I'm not even from the UK but for some reason the rest of Europe got affected by the change, to the point where half of the time they were called Ninja Turtles and the other half they were called Hero Turtles. Always confused me as a child. I still don't even know what the problem with the word "ninja" was in the first place.

>>2818324
We had it, but we weren't berated because it was forbidden in Germany, but because it forced us to kill German soldiers. Contrary to the popular belief, most of us don't buy into American propaganda.

>>2814220
Yeah, they removed all the crosses in Earthbound, too and made a ton of edits. They changed some scolding dialogs.

>After Pokey is punished by his father, if you go talk to him in MOTHER 2, he says, “I was really scolded by my father. Aa, my butt hurts.” But in EarthBound he says, “My dad really got after me. He said I get no dessert for the rest of the decade…”

>>2818136
this sounds like bullshit. they have no problem with mickey mouse.

>>2814454
Yes. No blood is dripping from the platforms on stage 1. Also the pool in the Italian stage doesn't turn to blood in the EU release (red skeletons still rise from the water), and medusa heads and zombies have a different color scheme. Eric Lecarde also looks less androgynous in the US and EU releases.

>>2814732
Google the Mega Drive version of Contra: Hard Corps. Or rather, Probotector. Turns everyone into robots or aliens (as usual) and removes cutscenes that some of the boss mechs are piloted by humanoid character. Geo Mandrake is no longer eaten by his fusion machine creature. Neither is he turned into a mutant by the colonel in another path, the mutant is already in the room when you enter. You can not side with the Colonel, the evil ending has been removed. And so on.

See here, don't mind the page being in German.
http://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=3891

>>2816513
>never got changed
removed in the German version, which then landed on the Index (ban list) anyway. Also not featured in the Doom 3 HD collection

>>2818324
It got beschlagnahmt, meaning all retail copies were confiscated and destroyed by the state. People still found ways to share it. Happened with all subsequent titles as well. They changed a lot of the imagery in RtCW, but then it got banned anyway because of the gore. Gore was gone in Wolf2009, but they forgot to censor one little swastika in the hospital level, and the game was confiscated as well. New Order is the first Wolfenstein that is still available with the script changed so the Nazis are the Wolves and with gore intact. You are allowed to have these titles if you're above the age of 18, but you're not allowed to sell them or advertise them. Business strictly below the counter.

See for yourself:
http://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=4120

http://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=5982811

http://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=363269

>>2814131
green translucent sewage retarded too.

think of it as a pluvial drain, so its clean water, tainted with blood, so its a translucent red drain, not transparent blood, and its much more macabre, otherwise its just metroid in the sewers

>>2820863
All the Contra games on consoles prior to Legacy of War were graphically edited into Probotector games for PAL territories. It was mostly due to Germany. The weird thing is that the two arcade games were unaffected by this.

>>2820791
Thanks for posting gook gibberish as though anyone can read it to compare.

>>2820953
I know dude, I'm German. It's just that Hard Corps is the most harshly affected, as the censorship actually limits the options of the player by eliminating one of the endings and really diminishes the story.

>>2820967
You're a special type of retard

>>2820619
>>>/pol/

>>2821210
Thanks baby.

>>2820967
Triggered.

>>2821223
>>>/reddit/

>>2814820

It's a meme pushed by tumblr to get people to accept censorship. It's only really taken off in the last 2 years. If they can convince you that censorship isn't actually censorship, they'll be able to censor everything they want without being called censors.

>>2814072
it means "up yours"

>>2820967
You are not even trying, dummy!

>>2821295

Oh, it's pushed by a hell of a lot more than just tumblr these days. Believe it or not, there is an international association for videogame translators, and its head very much believes in removing all "problematic" and "culturally insensitive" (actual words used) content from games. One example singled out was removing aspects of Japanese culture from eastern games that they thought western gamers would blow a gasket over.

tldr; Remember the localization of Dragon Quest IV DS? These assholes think it should be _celebrated_.

>>2814521
when it comes to actual politicians, it's largely Joe Liebermann, and california nanny state liberals like Joe Baca and Dianne Feinstein who go after games. Liberal politicians are specifically who started the whole "violent games controversy", and are the only ones who pursue it in congress and their various state senates.

The only "old conservative" I can think of off the top of my head who had it out for games was Dave Grossman, who isn't a politician, but a retired army officer who wrote a few /k/ unapproved books on the psychology of killing people in war and self-defense situations.

>>2820859
why did they make him retarded?

>>2814421
because you're a massive faggot who needs to get butthurt by stupid shit nobody cares about to feel special.

>>2814435
why the fuck was whatever he was answering removed and not the subsequent replies?
That's just being lazy.

>>2821295
So are you actually saying it's wrong for companies to self-censor their own products?

The idea that a private entity should not have full control over how they present their work is completely at odds with the concept of free speech.

By trying to force them to include something they wish to cut, you are interfering with that right, just as an external censor is when he tries to force them to cut something they want to include.

>>2818238
This. Just like two fingers doesn't mean "peace" but rather victory, the original meaning winston churchill meant to convey that hip[pies fucked up.

>>2814882
>Except for the ones that were forced to remove things due to Nintendo's practices at the time, ie. Religious or Alchoholic imagery or references in just about every goddamn game
>Forced

No one has ever been forced to do business with Nintendo.

>>2818241
genereally speaking, this anon is correct and everyone hates faggots who try telling us that thumbs are not fingers. You're all retards and need to choke on something. Like unwashed cock.

>>2820859
This one is an improvement actually

>>2820875
Germany is a bunch of fucking pussies now, stop lying about history, that's the only way to stop it from repeating. Ignorance gives way to fucking up again. Even non german versions of games in world war two have that bullshit iron cross in a white cross with red background as the nazi flag.
I'm not a nazi, I've nearly died fighting skinfags who teamed up on me like the bitch cowards they are and I'd do it again, but I hate that germany lies to their youth about a simple image.

>>2821540

>The idea that a private entity should not have full control over how they present their work is completely at odds with the concept of free speech.

Self-censorship I don't actually mind, but that's the thing: it's _not_ usually the people who made the game that are calling for parts to excised, it's some anal Cultural Sensitivity Adviser who oft times the creators never even met, let alone coordinated with. And under that definition, it's not actually self-censorship.

Also, by the same token, if you're going to self-censor then don't surprised when I pirate the holy fucking hell out of your product and restore everything you cut like a douchebag coward.

Information wants to be free.

>>2821545

Making yourself the only option through illegal monopoly practices is the same fucking thing as forcing them. Don't even try to pretend it's not, you've already lost that argument.

>>2821559

Germany really needs to get over their self-loathing problem. It's been over half a century, guys. We forgive you.

>>2821486

I think Lieberman was a conservative democrat. But you're right, as far as actual politicians go, it was usually democrats: Herb Kohl, Hillary Clinton, Tipper Gore, Lieberman, etc. As far as the general population goes it was a lot of conservatives.

>>2821516
>So are you actually saying it's wrong for companies to self-censor their own products?

Usually they self-censor as a result of external pressure groups, entities like the ESRB or CERO, or personal choices on the part of the localizing team, not the original creator. There is no reason for someone to censor their own product unless they feel they have to for a reason or another, and that reason usually isn't good. Unless it's something that would make no sense in other countries, like Japanese puns that Burgerbros couldn't understand, there's usually no good reason to significantly alter something. And if they do censor something, they should give me the option of playing the uncensored version in the menu.

>The idea that a private entity should not have full control over how they present their work is completely at odds with the concept of free speech.
You realize they usually self-censor specifically for that reason right? Because of free speech/expression restrictions imposed by them by other countries so they feel they have to self-censor, or they're required to?

>By trying to force them to include something they wish to cut, you are interfering with that right, just as an external censor is when he tries to force them to cut something they want to include.
>PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST CENSORSHIP ARE THE REAL CENSORS
Here's the thing. There are already people and instituions that pressure companies to censor their games. So if no one pressures companies to not censor their games (which I really don't know why they'd have a problem with that), games will always be censored since there is no pushback against it.

>>2821576
Hey, it's a hell of a lot better than them being like Turkey and pretending it didn't happen.

>>2821589

Nope. Both are simply opposite extremes of the same destructive cultural tendency.

>>2821565
>Self-censorship I don't actually mind, but that's the thing: it's _not_ usually the people who made the game that are calling for parts to excised, it's some anal Cultural Sensitivity Adviser who oft times the creators never even met, let alone coordinated with. And under that definition, it's not actually self-censorship.

So who gives these "Cultural Sensitivity Advisers" the right to edit the game, if not the creator, or the person the creator sold the rights to?

If you produce a game and sell it to a publisher, they have every right to chop and change any part of the game they wish, unless you had the foresight to make sure your contract protects your creative control of the project. That's still self censorship because it;s the owner of the intellectual property who is censoring his own property.

>Also, by the same token, if you're going to self-censor then don't surprised when I pirate the holy fucking hell out of your product and restore everything you cut like a douchebag coward.

You have every right to boycott a product for any reason you see fit. But remember that others have that right as well.

>>2821587
uhm... why the hell are you replying to me? That post wasn't relevant to anything. What the fuck are you talking about? I was bitching about the mods and you go on a huge rant about...that. Or something.

>>2821572
They were never the only option, simply the most attractive option, and that didn't last long, in part due to their business practices driving 3rd party developers towards companies with less restrictive practices..

>>2821596
>But remember that others have that right as well.
and they are exercising the fuck out of that right, tumblr, something awful and neogaf love starting smut campaigns against anime titles with underage characters

>>2821587
>>2821606

I obviously meant to quote this guy: >>2821540

It even had the quoted lines and everything.

>>2821612
well then click the right post next time ya friggen' retard.

>>2821587
ESRB and I believe CERO, though I could be wrong there, are not state entities, they have no power to dictate what content can or can't be included in a game. Companies follow their regulations on a purely voluntary basis for commercial reasons.

>>2821616

Shut up dumb nigger, I'll do what I want.

>>2821618

So? I'm not sure how that's supposed to justify anything. The idea was to say that a lot of these instances of self-censorship don't have a proper excuse. "Censoring" isn't giving them a right to free expression, it's just a limitation imposed by them by other entities (to avoid controversy, to get a better rating, etc.).

>>2821608
>and they are exercising the fuck out of that right, tumblr, something awful and neogaf love starting smut campaigns against anime titles with underage characters

Why the fuck was this post deleted?

>>2821623
Fine, just learn to fucking click on links not like a retard then.

>>2821635
Oh, so I'm not the only one who's noticed that somebody behind the scenes in this thread is being a huge faggot.
That's good.

>>2821607

>They were never the only option, simply the most attractive option, and that didn't last long, in part due to their business practices driving 3rd party developers towards companies with less restrictive practices..

Not the way it happened at all, slick. Stop trying to rewrite history. Nintendo was the only real option. Eventually even my notoriously corrupt government tired of their shenanigans and began anti-trust proceedings against them. TWICE.

>>2821618

I have no comment on CERO (not a Yuro, obviously), but the ESRB is voluntary the same way a loaded gun pointed at your temple is: the US government essentially said "Form your own MPAA or we will form it for you under our terms.". Only a pedantic asshole would consider that voluntary.

>So who gives these "Cultural Sensitivity Advisers" the right to edit the game, if not the creator, or the person the creator sold the rights to?

The corporation. The creator gets no say in the matter whatsoever.

>If you produce a game and sell it to a publisher, they have every right to chop and change any part of the game they wish, unless you had the foresight to make sure your contract protects your creative control of the project.

Try drawing up a contract with that clause and present it to any established player in the gaming market today. They will laugh your ass right out of the office.

>You have every right to boycott a product for any reason you see fit. But remember that others have that right as well.

I didn't say "boycott", champ: I said "pirate". Let's not beat around the bush.

>>2821637

Something Awful got mentioned. It's pretty much guaranteed at that point.

There's no SJW conspiracy you fucking retards, culture just changed and you were left behind.
Get with the times, it's 2015.

>>2821648
Really?
Yeah they're faggots but cutting out posts mentioning them is beyond gay. It's not like a pay-for-membership forum full of people that even 4chan anons think are faggots are going to steal members from here.

>>2821651
Shut up Trudou you fancy fucking flappy headed fuck! We know what goddamn year it is!

>>2821652

Let me revise that: SA got mentioned...And they didn't like the way it was mentioned.

>>2821651

Public quotes from actual industry figures prove otherwise retard, have a nice day.

>>2821651
>it's 2015

Yeah but this thread is about instances of censorship in old games so it's not relevant. Go to bed tumblr.

>>2821632
Imposed would imply some level of force.

There's no force here, the problem is freedom works both ways, you're free to make whatever game you want, but other people are free not to touch it. In every case of censorship in gaming the creator has either agreed to the censorship or at least given up his rights to object. In every case this has been done of his own free will and in almost every case this is done for money, or possibly a desire fr his game to simply reach a larger audience, even if not in its original form.

As I say, freedom works both ways, developers have no right to force other companies to publish their games, they have no right to force stores to stock them. Every company has a right to dictate their terms of doing business. If you want to work with a larger company you need to accept that companies terms. If their terms are not compatible with yours then you have to choose.

Game developers, like all artists, have to choose between staying true to their artistic vision or maximising the commercial potential of their work, very few people are lucky enough to have it both ways.

>>2821692

Get a load of this delusional faggot. He thinks if he keeps retyping the same shit different ways over and over it'll eventually be true, and not a corporate censorship apologist's wet dream.

>>2821638
>Not the way it happened at all, slick. Stop trying to rewrite history. Nintendo was the only real option. Eventually even my notoriously corrupt government tired of their shenanigans and began anti-trust proceedings against them. TWICE.

I'm not defending Nintendo's practices but they were not the only option. The home computer market had exploded at this point, the Master System was also a viable option, though certainly a less attractive one unless you were focused on the South American or European markets. To say Nintendo was the only option is simply ignorance.

>I have no comment on CERO (not a Yuro, obviously), but the ESRB is voluntary the same way a loaded gun pointed at your temple is: the US government essentially said "Form your own MPAA or we will form it for you under our terms.". Only a pedantic asshole would consider that voluntary.

Are you forced to get your game ESRB rated? No, companies choose to do it to increase sales.

>The corporation. The creator gets no say in the matter whatsoever.
How did the evil corporation get the rights from a private individual? Either he sold his game to them of his own free will. Or he signed a contract to develop the game for them of his own free will. Either way, he had a say.

>Try drawing up a contract with that clause and present it to any established player in the gaming market today. They will laugh your ass right out of the office.
And they have every right to do so. They have no obligation to do business with you.

This is your problem, you want people to respect your freedom, but you have no respect for anyone else's. You seem to view games developers as special little snowflakes who are entitled to do business on their terms and only their terms.

>I didn't say "boycott", champ: I said "pirate". Let's not beat around the bush.
You are saying you would refuse to buy the game as a form of protest. I think my choice of words is perfectly acceptable.

>>2821708
Can you explain where I am wrong?

You are free to develop whatever game you want and self publish it on no ones terms but your own.

But if you want to work with other people, be they other developers, publishers, stockists, or whoever, you have to learn to compromise. This is true in all aspects of business and life in general, not just the gaming industry.

>>2821692
>Imposed would imply some level of force.

It is imposed to a certain level. Something doesn't have to be officially banned by the government, or for someone to point a gun to your head to imply a degree of force/coercion. I'm not forced to wear a coat during winter. I could walk around shirtless in the snow every day but there's no way that'll happen.

>you're free to make whatever game you want, but other people are free not to touch it.
Yep, and that's why a lot of censorship-related incidents are stupid. Because very few people actually care about minor things being changed enough to base their purchase solely on that factor, especially since they won't find out about it until after they bought the game. I'm glad Nintendo for example doesn't have the ridiculous policies they used to have because they realized that. Things should keep going in that direction.

>In every case this has been done of his own free will and in almost every case this is done for money, or possibly a desire fr his game to simply reach a larger audience, even if not in its original form.
Sometimes it's a stupid decision. Lots of companies make stupid decisions to cover their asses and misjudge things and it's our job to tell them that. Sometimes it's just the localization team being paid to change the product a bit more to their liking. The reasoning is rarely well-founded, unless it's about removing straight-up CP-tier shit.

>developers have no right to force other companies to publish their games, they have no right to force stores to stock them.
The problem is when moral busybodies dictate what companies can do. Companies usually want to sell whatever they can to make money, it's external groups that affect what they'll avoid. It's especially a problem when you have essentially monopolies like Steam or the iOS store that control a huge share of the market, so their decisions affect game development in a much more significant way.

>>2821692
>>2821730
>>Game developers, like all artists, have to choose between staying true to their artistic vision or maximising the commercial potential of their work,

And we should push them to care more about their artistic vision, and push consumers to do the same thing. Lots of "maximising the commercial potential" is bullshit anyway since companies make products that fail based on poor financial decisions all the time so they're not prescient, and catering to the LCD will usually lead to a watered down experience.

>>2814624
>See those weird place names? All Korean. Untranslated.
You mean they're written in hangul or some shit?

>>2820791
They also change the sfx, iirc. The JP version sounds like slapping/spanking, whereas the NA version is more vague.

>>2815330
FFVII has a lot of blood in it when you think about it - Shinra Building, Midgar Zolom, final boss fight. Then there are mentions of blood, which sounds dumb, but in older games that would have been censored into something a bit more innocent.

I wonder if FFVII got kind of a pass on things just to kind of flaunt that they were with Sony and no longer under the strict Nintendo rules?

>>2815330
To be fair, the zombie is gory enough it could have caused an M rating. Though thinking back on it VII was pretty gory itself in some places, remember the Midgar Zolom impaled on a tree?

>>2820859
I think 'murrican Eric definitely looks better, Jap Eric goes past adrogynous and hits ayy lmao territory.

>>2820619
>Nazi germany is american propaganda

what?

>>2821790
That guy is talking shit. Vidya with Nazi symbolism in it doesn't get released or censored in Germany for the simple reason that there is a simple technicality, a legal loophole that allows for Swastikas, SS runes and such to ONLY show up in an artistic or historical/documentary context. That includes films like Indiana Jones. However, when that law was made, videogames weren't exactly a thing (it was the 50s), so they don't count towards "artistic depiction" and as such have to be censored.

>>2821756
FFVII also had numerous uses of the word "shit" uncensored. And Cloud crossdressing and getting gangraped in a hot tub.

There's no way that game would get a T rating today. I hope Square just goes all out for the remake and doesn't tone anything down.

>>2821807
>getting gangraped in a hot tub

Uhh... what?

I... don't think was actually a thing that happened in FFVII.

>>2814623
Best scene.

>>2821658
>Let me revise that: SA got mentioned...And they didn't like the way it was mentioned.
Anyone who pays to be part of that cult-like community deserves to be mocked anyway.

>>2821559
It's not really ignorance. They're not pretending Nazi's never existed. They know what they're done and accept responsibility for it. It's more like "we can't ever let this happen again so let's make sure Nazis don't look like cool guys ever again". So they made up a law that stated you can't show Nazis in media unless it's historically accurate. Which basically rules out everything besides documentaries and movies like Der Untergang. I recently saw Unsere Vater Unsere Mutter (Generation War) and it's the first time I've ever seen Germany produce something where Nazi's don't look like the bad guys.

Truth is, it's just an old ass outdated law that was made up right after the war ended. People in Germany know what their grandfathers did and they can seperate facts from fiction. But they won't change their laws. Sort of like how Japan still censors their porn for no reason.

>>2821638
>have no comment on CERO (not a Yuro, obviously
CERO is Japanese. PEGI is the European rating board.

>>2821849
2 minute mark no homo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coRm-da6dXw

>>2821992
All they did was take a bath together.

>>2821756
And the blood wasn't even the worst thing in the game for me. It was that damn 1st FMV of Jenova. I almost shat my pants when I was a kid.

>>2822004
there's another version of that where cloud passes out in the tub, I don't know what triggers it

>>2820619
>we weren't berated because it was forbidden in Germany, but because it forced us to kill German soldiers
damn, i never really thought about that. sucks that US vidya made a metric ton of games about killing the shit out of kraut soldiers. thats really bad taste thinking of it.

>>2821992
it looks like they only felt him up or some shit
still cant believe that went untouched through censorship like that

The Vietnamese version of Windows has "Flower Picker" instead of Minesweeper because people still occasionally get killed by unexploded landmines over there.

>>2822617
We make games out of killing the shit out of Afghanis or whatever as well. Even the military has an FPS. It's pretty far-reaching propaganda.

What are some general things each country/region censors?

>North America
Nudity
>Germany
Violence against humans
>Japan
Nukes
>China
Corpses, skeletons, any kind of human remains

I know Australia has a lot of game censorship (Aussie friend bitches about it a lot), but I'm not sure specifically what their deal is. I think they have a thing against blood or something. Also, bonus:

>old-school North American Nintendo
>religion

>>2824045
Aussie here. The censorship here is because of the way our ratings system used to work. Here are our ratings since they're different to America's:
G: Suitable for everyone
PG: Recommended for 13+ but no restrictions
M: Recommended for 15+ but no restrictions
MA: Restricted to 15+ unless an adult is present at all times
R: Restricted to 18+ with no exceptions
RC: Banned entirely

The censorship comes from two factors. Firstly, until a few years ago there was no R rating for video games, only for movies, so any game with content stronger than MA got RC instead. Many companies chose to censor their games down to MA rather than be banned. The second factor is that violence in video games is considered to be stronger than in movies since it's interactive. That's especially the case with sexual violence.Hotline Miami 2, due to sexual violence. Quite a few have been censored down to an R rating though.

The government also really hates games that promote drug use, which basically means any game that gives you a reward for taking drugs. Despite all the memes about Australia hating violence that's actually the biggest source of censorship.

>>2824069
Whoops, typo from editing. Meant to say that the only game banned entirely since the introduction of the R rating is Hotline Miami 2 although quite a few have been censored down to R from RC.

>>2824069
>Hotline Miami 2, due to sexual violence
Which is funny because the rape scene in the game lasts about two seconds and it's not even real, it's done by actors on a movie set for a film that's being made in the game. One poorly made sprite goes on top of another and lies there for two seconds, there's no animation.

I remember the outcry by idiots who wanted the game banned everywhere when it was still in development and nobody had even seen the rape scene. The developers even implemented an option to skip the scene.

There's nothing wrong with rape in a film, but when rape happens in a film inside a video game , you're fucked.

>>2824045
japan is also pretty strict about violence

>>2814582
You know, heavy and hamfisted censorship like that makes me not want to play these games, as I'd not be playing the actual game but some piss poor mockery of it. The USA have one fucked up culture

>>2824069
Aren't Australian censors/law hung up on protecting da childrens? Like to the point of disallowing young-looking, flat-chested women from being in porn?

>>2814802
That's actually what happens in german censored versions. Germany does not have censorship, with the exception of Nazi imagery in a non-documentary context. Anything violence, gore, nudity is perfectly fine. However, Germany will apply harsh age restrictions. So a lot of games are censored by the publisher or developer, in order to score lower age ratings.

>>2820875
>but then it got banned anyway because of the gore
Germany does not actually ban games (with the exception of Nazi imagery, because they're boneheaded). The worst that can happen, which Doom and many others went through, is ending up on the Index of Youth Endangering Works. Products on that index may not be sold to anybody below the age of 18. They may not even be advertised. The last bit is key here. Having the box on the shelf is an advertisment. Mentioning the game in an article is an advertisment. Seeing a store clerk hand the game to an adult during a purchase is an advertisment. Effectively the only way to sell such a game in a store is that the buyer would have to ask if they had the product, show proof of age, and then get the game in covered up packaging, like a bag or something. In reality all that is not feasible, of course, so putting a game on the index is an effective ban. It's not a legal ban though. You can buy and own games on the index.
tl;dr: swastikas will get you banned, gore will get you heavily restricted, to the point of an effective but not legal ban

>>2824159
"Australia bans small tits" was made up by an Aussie anti-censorship party on zero evidence and then became a meme on the internet. It's not true. What Australia does ban is porn where adult actors play under 18 roles or hint that they do. If the characters are 18 it's considered child porn even if the actors are 18 or over AND it's still considered child porn even if the sex is simulated.

>>2824527
Damn, meant to say "if the characters are under 18".

This also applies to animation so all loli games are banned and owning them will put you on the sex offender list and get you prison time.

>>2824045
You can show all the skin you want in Japanese games, but when a western game with actual sex or nudity (not really common in retro stuff but it's been showing up frequently in the last seven or so years) gets exported to the nips it gets censored as fuck over there. On the flip side of that tits and dicks are a-okay in modern western AAA titles but God forbid a loli wears a bikini.

In general humans are fucking weird about the whole nudity thing.

>>2824527
so it's only half made-up then, I heard they also banned porn with schoolgrils

>>2824527
What are the rules for "hinting at being underage"? Like, if a girl has pigtails and wears a schoolgirl outfit, will it get banned? That's not as bad as banning all porn with small tits but it's still pretty fucking stupid.

>>2824670
pigtails are zoophilia

>>2814082
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras_d'honneur
>Occasionally, the middle finger of the bent arm is also raised to add emphasis.
Hahahaha, really? you'd look like such a twat doing this.

>>2818324
>Were there any penalties, if a copy was found in your possession?
No. If you know Kraut, the relevant clause is StGB §131: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__131.html

TL;DR: It's legal to own it, unless you plan to sell it. So if you are caught with 100 Wolfenstein disks, then you have a problem. A single one? A-ok.

Contrary to what >>2820875 wrote, you *are* allowed to own these titles if you're under 18. But nobody is allowed to give them to you, e.g. as a present. Selling is completely verboten.

I bought the demo of Wolfenstein in Germany in an english book about video game programming ("Tricks of the Game-Programming Gurus", those were the days). Seems that slipped through the cracks. But technically the store committed a double felony: Selling it at all, and selling it to a minor (me at the time).

>>2821804
In case anybody is interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a

>>2824137
>There's nothing wrong with sex in a film, but when sex happens in a video game, you're fucked.
FTFY. Remember Hot Coffee?

>>2824160
>Anything violence, gore, nudity is perfectly fine.
Not quite: Glorification of violence against humans and human-like creatures[*] is illegal (StGB §131), as is porn that includes BDSM or animals (StGB §184a). And child porn, of course (including virtual child porn if it's "realistic") (StGB §184b, §184c).

[*] yep, that includes zombies

>>2818487
I got an idea. Don't play it if you don't like it. Content creators put it in there for a reason, even if its just fanservice, why censor how they make their product?

>>2824837
I stand corrected. Also shows what the Grundgesetz is worth.
>Eine Zensur findet nicht statt.

>>2824045
Germany also bans gambling in video games now. The remake Pokemon games for the 3DS had to take out the Game Corner or the game wouldn't be allowed to be released in Germany.

>>2824857
>had to take out the Game Corner or the game wouldn't be allowed to be released in Germany.
proof? That would be a rather unusual decision for Germany.

>>2824859
>But why did it go missing without an in-game word of explanation?

>The answer is because of anti-gambling laws that came out around the same time having an influence on game ratings. Upon people emailing Nintendo of Europe about this, the following replies revealed this:

>“In Pokémon Platinum Version, the slot machines in the Game Corner cannot be operated by the player, to comply with PEGI age rating guidelines concerning gambling. Players can still get coins to exchange for items, simply by checking the slot machine.

>PEGI – Pan European Game Information – are the group that decide what games are rated in regards to what age groups they are appropriate for. If they had kept the slot machines in, the recommended age for children to play this game would have skyrocketed from the then standard ‘E for Everyone’, by as much as a rating of ages 12 and up. That would have been one of the last things the Pokémon company would have wanted. Parents not buying games for their kids or stores refusing to sell to too-young customers due to store policies would have resulted in less sales. And that’s ignoring the fact that having the minigame could have broken laws as well, and avoiding unnecessary law suits is in every company’s interests. This would be why they removed the slot machines from Platinum.

Basically if they put "gambling" in the game PEGI would have rated it a 12+ and Nintendo was afraid.

>>2824869
PEGI is not Germany. Germany has the FSK, which is more binding than PEGI.

>anti-gambling laws that came out
In Germany? Should be trivial to find the specific laws in question. Since you mention PEGI though, which is not subject to german laws, this seems unlikely. Regardless, you should be able to find the EU guidelines covering this.

>see this thread bumped, hoping for interesting content
>still talking about fucking Germany

>>2824883
You post something interesting then, fuckface.

>>2824893
no

>>2821542
Peace is a victory.

>>2821267
>>>/pol/

>>2821732
He's mixing things. Actually US localization has some Korean names (like dragon names and abilities: Patoh pah, P'ung etc.) introduced deliberately to make the game feel more exotic and because of the hurry to make it in 2000s market. Original JP version doesn't have any Korean words.

>>2824923
COME ON, IT'S 2015

>>2824883
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________GERMANY___________________________________________________________________

>>2821596
>So who gives these "Cultural Sensitivity Advisers" the right to edit the game, if not the creator, or the person the creator sold the rights to?
the publisher, actually

>>2820859
I still think he's pretty

>>2820859
Doesn't matter, they turned him into a shota twink later.

>>2824045
Japan censors nukes? Examples?

I've fought against nukes in several Japanese games. Granted at least one of them is an eroge for PC-98 (The Gainax card-battler one).

>>2824529
>This also applies to animation so all loli games are banned and owning them will put you on the sex offender list and get you prison time.
Man... remind me to never move to Australia, Aussie-kun.

At least it's not that bad where I live... yet...

Protecting the imaginary childruns....

>>2824670
It's at the censors' discretion. If the chick's wearing a schoolgirl's uniform and is getting fucked in a classroom by a guy who says he's her teacher, it's pretty obvious the character's meant to be underage.

To try and make this relevant to /vr/ again, there aren't that many retro games that are banned or censored in Australia. There's just:
>Dreamweb (censored down to M by removing sexual violence)
>Duke Nukem 3D (censored down to MA by cutting out some sex & violence. Later released uncensored as MA)
>Postal (banned completely)
>Phantasmagoria (banned completely)
>Tender Loving Care (banned completely. Later released uncensored as MA)
>Voyeur (banned completely)

And obviously all the Japanese porno games.

>>2825549
there are 18 year olds who wear school girl uniforms at school though.

>>2825429

Don't bother arguing with him. He thinks publishers still serve a purpose and that being parasitic middlemen is a respectable trade.

>>2825459
Fallout 3

>>2825618
If the character explicitly says that they're 18 that's ok. They just err on the side of caution.

>>2824856
I forgot one big exception: Art. Art has The Protection Of The German Constitution.

Of course there's a catch: What is art and what is entartete Kunst, err, no art? That's for a judge to decide...

The first Evil Dead movie for example (from 1981) is illegal to sell/distribute in Germany because of glorification of violence. Same for the Manhunt games.

>>2825628
dont get me started with metal gear.

>>2826124
Metal Gear (Solid) is all about nukes. It even mails you some fission at one point.

>>2826127
and it's Jap.

>>2814218
Can't blame them, I would have gotten off to that in the day.

>>2827746
and what exactly would be the harm in kids getting off to video games? What are they protecting from?

>>2827749
From turning into anime lolicon neckbeards, I guess.

>>2824772
Culture thing.
In some places, it adds macho to the insult.

>>2814452
>>2814639
>what with our weekly school shootings
Stop buying into propaganda, about 500 people have been killed in school shootings since the 1980's (only very few of them being mass murders) and is declining steadily (as is all violence in the US), guns are more common than ever in the America today.

>>2814725
It's not really a mass shooting if it's one person taking some shots at another person and then taking off, that's just a -shooting-.
Gang violence IS a problem though. I blame the War On Drugs.

>>2814582
>- Bars also became cafes in this game

This is true in Grandia as well, and all the alcohol becomes coffee. There's a cask of coffee, a pile of coffee bottles a man is hiding from his wife, people talk about how it's too early in the day to drink coffee, and don't let kids drink coffee because they're too young

Yet Feena still gets wasted on some green shit later in the game

>>2814732
Can we stop forever with this shitty meme already?

From MW:

1
a : the institution, system, or practice of censoring
b : the actions or practices of censors; especially : censorial control exercised repressively

From Oxford:

The suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security:

From Google:

the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc., and suppressing unacceptable parts.

Wikipedia:

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.

What fucking definition are you using that's exclusive to an outside party?

>>2827894
sue's uncle is a coffee addict neet

>>2827749
Some parents want to control when their kids are getting off.

>>2824045
China's really big on censoring games that diss the communist party of China. for instance, several war games with hypothetical future wars involving china have been banned.

Japan doesn't care about nukes; shin megami tensei had one at a key plot point. westerners selling to Japan, though, get oversensitive about it sometimes though (like in fallout 3, where the destroy megaton quest was removed for Japan).

>>2827905
The issue is is that people claim censorship is something inherently wrong or that it is a violation of free speech. Which is only true when a 3rd party censors something through the use of force.

A game being banned by law is a violation of free speech.

A Publisher editing their own game because Wallmart refused to stock it is just the free market at work.

You can argue they are both forms of censorship, but on an ethical level there is a world of difference between the two.

>>2814065
I dont know they're both cool japan's shows Bowser's badassness and America's shows Bowser's Cockyness

>>2828080
>A game being banned by law is a violation of free speech.
>A Publisher editing their own game because Wallmart refused to stock it is just the free market at work.

A surprising amount of people don't get this.
4chan is a private establishment, yet people act as if it's unthinkable for 4chan to impose it's own rules on what they want on here, as if hiro (formerly moot), had to justify anything on his own site.

Now, if there were laws being made by the state to restrict what I could talk about on 4chan, that would very much upset me, that'd not only impose on my rights but on the owner's rights.

>>2827995
That is entirely their problem, and not the job of society. In particular, their personal restriction must not be a restriction for the general populace

>>2814209
You're not missing out. The English version is honestly a bit more focused.

>>2828268
With people on this website and elsewhere calling things like wordfilters or the Skullgirls animation changes "censorship", I am starting to worry that someday we could see the term censorship itself become devalued and turned into a meaningless buzzword, which can have some very unfortunate implications

>>2828404
you're just as pathetic as them for caring either way

>>2828404
word filters are censorship, because they distort and change the original statement. It's better to refuse a message altogether and give feedback to the user. That's just normal rule enforcement then.

With stuff like the animation changes you (and the anon you quote) dismiss something pretty important. When economy of scale comes into play, and any private entity (say, Walmart) becomes big enough, that their policy effectively shapes the products, then we're in the territory of censorship again. Only that it's done by a private entity. The thing is, the author of the product is unable to make the product available to the wide masses, unless they follow the policy of one subset of private entities. That's not literal, but in effect censorship with the threat of loss of market access. Note that such a heavyweight in the market is not a free market either. There is very little difference in the "power" of a private entity with some weight to throw around, and a government. Only we can hold the latter to some amount of responsibility, while with the former on the market, we're fucked. As such, I consider forced policy from private entities quite a threat, and worth of focus.

>>2828415
It's not censorship because it's not a decision being enforced by a third party on the publisher. They did that of their OWN volition.

>>2828418
"Wouldn't it be sad if your product didn't sell? Now if you only made a few small changes..."

>>2828418
self-censorship is a powerful and dangerous force, because it's so easy to dismiss. Perfect to enforce a censorship on the public, without them treating it as such. If you ever lived in a dictatorship-like environment, you'd know, and recognize when it happens.

>>2828415
The Skullgirls frames were redrawn because they looked like shit. The most prominent frame (one of Cerebella's) makes her ass bigger. Equating minor changes by the creators like that to "censorship" is like calling the changes made to the Gollum scene in later printings of The Hobbit censorship. It's a change made by creators that is based on their own criticisms, and that's not inherently good or bad.

>>2828423
Except this isn't a dictatorship environment, there's no government enforcing these rules. You mysogynerds don't know the first thing about civil rights or liberties.

>>2828427
>The Skullgirls frames were redrawn because they looked like shit
If that was the reason, I accept your point. I am not too interested in Skullgirls, and (wrongly) assumed the edits were out of public pressure

>>2828427
>The most prominent frame (one of Cerebella's) makes her ass bigger.
I don't see how that could be considered a bad thing.

>>2828429
the government is not the only entity able to shape public opinion and public access to products. The government is the only entity that we can hold accountable for their actions. That makes the government slightly less dangerous.

>>2828436
Actually nevermind, her arse looks bigger in the CENSORED version.

>>2828427
>>2828436
That looks like pretty clear covering of "naughty" parts, and not an improvement in quality.

>>2828440
Well if you actually bothered playing the game you're criticizing you'd know 1 the game is still choke full of pantyshots 2 the last revision came out 3 years ago, long before SJW were even a thing.

>>2828442
I am not criticizing the game, I couldn't care less about the game itself. It was just brought up as an example of peer pressure based self censorship, and the example screenshots do suggest that that is going on.

>>2828434
There's a metric fuckton of panty shots and cheesecake in Skullgirls and less than a hundredth of it (no exaggeration) was redrawn. The two characters who got redraws were two of the earliest characters, and the altered frames had shit like magically shortening skirts that look dumb to even a hobby artist. It's a matter of revision, not censorship, but people will keep bitching about it because they lack context.

>>2828436
Exactly. The redraw adjusts the panties, making the butt look fuller. It's hard to call that "censorship" when you get a nice view of her underwear every time you use one of her specials.

>>2828429
>mysogynerds
thread going to shit in 3..2..

>>2828440
Without context, I'd get how you'd see that.
With the other frames, you'd understand it's because the skirts aren't drawn right here.

>>2828436
Their skin was made slightly lighter! WHITEWASHING!1!

>inb4 it's just the picture

>>2828449
fair enough. Feel free to substitute the Skullgirls asses with the clothes covered statues from earlier in the thread. I won't hinge my points on that game.

>>2828447
It's hard to tell if there was an improvement since the proportions in that artstyle are really fucked in the first place. Most people wouldn't have even noticed the edits if Mike Z didn't act like an idiot and made this hamfisted public statement in the official forums shown here in pic related.

http://skullheart.com/index.php?threads/skullgirls-pc-beta-updates-discussion.407/page-190

>>2828268

So you would be fine if companies like Google censored any information about a political scandal? I mean, you could always use Bing instead to find information about it (until Microsoft decides to do the same). They're just using their right to moderate their search engine however they want.

You'd be fine if Facebook banned any politically inconvenient rhetoric on their site. After all they're a private company, they can do whatever they want. Other social networks exist, so you can use them instead if you want.

Think of how much global power companies like Apple have with the iPhone.

Corporate censorship is a huge problem. Taking the anti-censorship stance will always be better in the long run, and forcing people to self-censor can be just as harmful and even more insidious. Also regardless of what moot or Hiro want to do with their site, 4chan is a user-driven site so people shouldn't let themselves get fucked in the ass.

The funny part is that modern leftists who defend corporate censorship use the exact same "free market", "pro-corporation" excuses they chastise Republicans/Libertarians for using. "They're a private company, they should do whatever they want even though we're the ones pressuring them to do that. Let's kill net neutrality while we're at it, corporations should be free to dictate what they do with their service".

>>2828456
Well yeah, when the only people who care about net neutrality in the first place are pedos and thieves I don't see how pressure imposed by public intellectuals could compare to the one imposed by fascist governments. It's probably better to have an universal sense of morals even if that means you get to lose a few frames of videogame titties every now and then.

>>2828465

I wasn't talking about Skullgirls, just about the concept in general. I don't care that much about minor edits, but people like you on the other side take the opposite stance to the point that you're defending things like removing blood, religious imagery, anything potentially offensive because "it's a private company, they can do whatever they want, it's not censorship because it's not the government censoring it, yadda yadda:. Everyone knows that this shit is stupid even if no government is forcing them to do it. Trying to dismiss any anti-censorship stance as being that of a pedophile or a thief is just trying to avoid the issue.

>only bad people defend it, so purge it!

>>2828418
The publisher is the one censoring the developer.

>>2828481
Boo hoo not the drawn titties. You know what's real censorship? Women being systematically restricted from entering the market place for centuries. Women being obliged AS A CHILD to marry a man they have never even met through family arrangement. Women having to live a normal life in constant and persistent fear of being a part of the statistic that says 1 in 4 females are raped every hour in the United States. Oh but I'm sure society should care about your retarded anime titties and net liberties to download as much CHILD PORN as you possibly could you misogynist..

>>2828492
YOU GO GIRL

>>2828492
>that says 1 in 4 females are raped every hour in the United States

7/10

Keep the children safe from anime pauldrons

>>2828505
left looks better, right is so bright I can barely see shit

>>2828505

Yeah they did that with a shitton of games. Panel de Pon to Tetris Attack, Breath of Fire 1-5, Final Fantasy 1-6, Dragon Quest, etc.

>>2828505
I don't know what's your point here, she's even less dressed in the western art.

>>2828492
You blew it, anon. And you were doing so well...

>>2828515
But you can see her tits, proving she's not a little girl. That means it's a game for manly men, not for lolicons.

>>2828456
>So you would be fine if companies like Google censored any information about a political scandal?
I guess not. But I suppose I don't really think 4chan, or at least most boards are important.

Really, the shit I'm talking about is when /pol/ leaks their sewage like substance on some unrelated board (such as this one, to name one of many), then cry about censorship when told that their posts go on /pol/ and not /vr/ or /a/

I suppose it's a matter of perspective, I just don't think it's comparable for 4chan to decide what kind of content they want (say, 4chan doesn't want furries for instance), to a big corporation trying to cover something up to the public. Maybe it's because I genuinely trust 4chan staff more than I trust Google (because I don't trust Google, is all)

>>2818241
>>2821547
Thaaank yooouuuu. I'm gonna murder the next stupid faggot who talks to me about thumbs not being fingers.

>>2818136
I think people are worthless pussies if they sit around pissing their pants over Yakuza, just because of some cartoon animal having four fingers. You'd have to be slightly insane to think that way.

>>2828456
>So you would be fine if companies like Google censored any information about a political scandal? I mean, you could always use Bing instead to find information about it (until Microsoft decides to do the same). They're just using their right to moderate their search engine however they want.

Of course. There are numerous other search engines out there.

Taking your business else where seems like a far better option than using the threat of violence to force Google to run their affairs in a manner that you personally deem acceptable.

>You'd be fine if Facebook banned any politically inconvenient rhetoric on their site. After all they're a private company, they can do whatever they want. Other social networks exist, so you can use them instead if you want.
I believe they already do. And yes, I'm perfectly fine with that. I don't even use their services.

>Think of how much global power companies like Apple have with the iPhone.
Well ideally they should have no more power than what their customers give them. Unfortunately this is not entirely true as we live in a world with a worrying overlap between business and the state. Large corporation unfortunately often have the power to use the violence of the state to protect their interests. But as far as I can see the only solution to this problem is to give the state less control over the markets and our private lives, not more.

Since you seem to think everyone has a right to platform, how would you feel if you ran a website and were forced to host political content you disagree with?

What if a guest in your house started to air views you found repugnant? Would you not be within your rights to ask them to shut up or leave?

>/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2828456
>The funny part is that modern leftists who defend corporate censorship...
>"Leftists are the ruin of this country!"

Stop listening to talk radio and / or /pol/. Sure, "Fight the Patriarchy!" idiots exist and are annoying, but they're a far smaller minority than conservatives want to make them out to be. And these people have nothing to do with the political left. Authoritarianism in any form is antithetical to liberalism. Most importantly, social justice types don't have any legislative power anywhere in the world. I'd be more concerned about the religious right trying to impose rigid censorship of anything it deems "ungodly." Judging by the fact that The 700 Club is still on the air in 2015, I imagine such people comprise a much larger percentage of the population than your SJWs ever will, and thus they pose a bigger threat to our freedoms.

As for my thoughts on censorship in general: As long as it doesn't extend beyond private companies or organizations enforcing their own policies, I could care less. I don't think censorship in any form is *morally* appropriate, but I have no right to tell anyone else what to do on / with their own property. Evidently, /pol/ seems to think that private companies and organizations should be obligated to offer themselves up as a platform for Nazi rhetoric. Then tell me: Would you actually honor a bunch of feminists holding an anti-patriarchy demonstration on your front lawn? Doubtful, and nor *should* you be obligated to offer your private property as a platform to these individuals.

>>2828492
suck my cock bitch

>>2829132
>/pol/ seems to think that private companies and organizations should be obligated to offer themselves up as a platform for Nazi rhetoric. Then tell me: Would you actually honor a bunch of feminists holding an anti-patriarchy demonstration on your front lawn? Doubtful, and nor *should* you be obligated to offer your private property as a platform to these individuals.
Jesus christ, so much this.

>>2828491
And the developer is the one who gave the publisher that right.

>>2829151

The biggest problems with /pol/ and neo-conservatives in general is:

1.) They fail to realize how their entire lives are based around a persecution complex. It's just the opposite extreme of social justice. They think the evil liberal / gay / SJW agenda is lurking around every corner.

2.) They see everything in black-and-white extremes. Either you agree with /pol/ or you're an SJW. There's nothing in-between.

3.) Everything they ascribe to "liberalism" / the social justice movement, they are guilty of themselves.

4.) They require external validation to such extremes that they have to inject themselves into everything. Not a single board on this site can stay on topic for /pol/ constantly crashing in. "Hey guiz, did you hear the evil SJWs are trying to take away your gaems?! Guiz, we have to fight the librul untruths of science and evilution! Guiz??"

At some point, you just wish 4chan had a checkbox that could filter out any and all posts related to /pol/.

>>2821981

It's a bit more complicated than that actually.
You see, as long as it doesn't glorify the Nazis you can use the swastika here pretty much freely- in MOVIES! This is because that law excluded sciences, education and works of "art" and movies are recognised as such. Video Games however are not. This is because to change that it had to be challenged in court, then vidya would be added to "art" and that ban lifted. That however would be some hassle and take money, so noone has by now attempted that and prefer making special versions for Germany, could be many of the developers don't even know about this detail and only are like- Germany- No Nazis!

>>2829103
>Of course. There are numerous other search engines out there.

Well I rest my case. You're basically letting huge monopolies that have an ever-expanding amount of control over the flow of information be as agenda-driven and controlled by corporate interests as they want and you don't care.

>using the threat of violence
Threats of violence aren't the only way of voicing an opinion.

>I don't even use their services.
Billions of people in the world do.

>Well ideally they should have no more power than what their customers give them. Unfortunately this is not entirely true as we live in a world with a worrying overlap between business and the state. Large corporation unfortunately often have the power to use the violence of the state to protect their interests
What you're also forgetting is that customers aren't necessarily smart. They will give more power to corporations regardless of what kind of fucked up decisions they make.

>how would you feel if you ran a website and were forced to host political content you disagree with?
There's a difference between regulating what's in your house, or a small private blog, and regulating huge entities and companies like 4chan, Reddit, Facebook, Youtube, etc.. Once an entity gains enough power, it should strive to be as politically-neutral as they can. Or you get giants like Google and Wikipedia being able to manipulate whatever information they want to fit an agenda. That's antitethical to the unrestrained search for truth and knowledge, and should be opposed.

>>2829132
>Stop listening to talk radio and / or /pol/.
I don't listen to talk radio, and pretty much never go on /pol/, I'm just reporting my own observations from seeing these people on sites like Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, or leftist-dominated forums like Talking Time, NeoGAF or Something Awful. They are pro-censorship, there's no denying it.

>And these people have nothing to do with the political left.
But they do, you just don't want them to represent you but they can't be ignored anymore.

>Authoritarianism in any form is antithetical to liberalism.
It should be, but the last decade has shown otherwise, which is why moderate liberals like me find terms like "SJW" and "regressives" to label them.

>I'd be more concerned about the religious right trying to impose rigid censorship of anything it deems "ungodly."
The religious right is dying. Nobody, especially the younger generation care about them anymore, churches are empty. Leftists have hegemonic control over academia, culture, a good part of the internet, entertainment industries. The White House lit up the colors of the gay flag when gay marriage was legalized. If that doesn't tell you who has the cultural power, I don't know what will.

Also it's funny that you think I'm a /pol/ nazi just because I criticize pro-censorship leftists. Then you go on and complain that /pol/ calls anyone who disagrees with them SJWs.

Anyway this is getting really off-topic. I'm not even the one who started that tangent in the first place. It's the people who were insisting "this isn't censorship".

>>2829231

>and pretty much never go on /pol/
>pretty much never
>"sometimes"

Translation: "More often than any sane person should."

>But they do, you just don't want them to represent you but they can't be ignored anymore.

No they don't. And I'm not a liberal.

>It should be, but the last decade has shown otherwise, which is why moderate liberals like me find terms like "SJW" and "regressives" to label them.

There's nothing remotely liberal about your politics. You want to encroach on the rights of private property owners and force them to provide a platform for your opinions.

>The religious right is dying.

No it's not, unless it's an incredibly slow process that I haven't been able to notice. I live in the Deep South. The churches stay so packed that vehicles have to park out in the middle of the street. Our tax dollars are often wasted on shit legislation like "Don't Say Gay" and other blatant attempts to suppress or scapegoat minorities.

I have no idea where you live, but it's definitely nowhere in vicinity to me.

>>2829173
after the publisher threatened not to release the game unless changes were made.

it's so autistic when neckbeards think they know anything about politics, you should stick to talking about children's toys since it's the only thing your limited intelligence is capable of grasping

>>2829275
>anyone who disagrees wtih me is an autistic neckbeard

Sounds about right.

>>2829275
Ah yes, the "children's toys" argument.

>>2829295
You think videogames aren't toys? Then what are they?

>>2829275
Pffft

>>2814678
frong strog

>>2814085
>>2814089
>>2814149
>>2814651
>>2815239

I'm Murka as fuck and I've never heard of this. I always thought it just meant "I'm strong/check out these guns."

If flexing means "up yours", then what was Rosie the Riveter doing? Was her "We can do it" intended as a lewd suggestion?

>>2829298
>children's toys
>toys
Stop moving the goalposts.

>>2829452
Context means everything, anon. She's flexing her guns.

>>2829298
Sure, I don't disagree. I was more just noting the tactic of referring to a shared interest in a diminutive fashion in order to belittle another poster's intelligence/skill/whatever.

>>2829452
I think it's the difference of hand vs. forearm on the muscle. That, and the "up yours" gesture is usually done against the inside of the elbow.

/vg/ - obscene retro gestures