/vr/ - Retro Games

I just rewatched Neon Genesis Evangelion for the first time in years. Sadly I've never played Xenogears though. How are they similar?

No.

>>2808053
basic summary of the plot. you are a teenager who gets caught up in a conflict between surface people and sky people. you end up finding out it goes way deeper than that culminating into you finding out a robot basically started your race by budding off and attempts to reform and you have lived several lives.

>>2808062
and you also pilot mechs.

>>2808053
they run out of budget towards the end

>>2808067
kek

>"congratulations"

>>2808053
The main bad guy's plan is to hijack the big plan of the ancient conspiracy guys, but his plan gets derailed by a guy who wants to fuck a clone of his dead mom.

>>2808067
this is why xenogears needs a directors cut. If that second disc existed it could have been one of the best games ever.

To talk about this, here's Eva in a nutshell:

In the long long ago, in the before time:
FAR become as gods in both mind and body
FAR decides their time is over
FAR divides their essence into the fruit of knowledge and fruit of life
FAR seal fruits inside moons along with a progenitor, lance, and scrolls
FAR seeds universe with moons

Dawn of life on Earth:
A white moon lands on Earth, Adam begins to sow fruit of life
Shit goes wrong and black moon crashes on Earth, destroying Lilith's paired lance
Adam's lance shuts him down as only option, as FAR didn't want fruits to combine as god
Lilith sows fruit of knowledge
The history of life on Earth happens as we understand it to

Recent memory:
Humanity discovers Adam
Stupidly pulls lance out
Second Impact
Adam destroys as much intruding Lilith based life as it can before being sealed by lance

Dark ages:
Creation of Eva Unit 1 from Lilith and Unit 0, 2, etc from Adam
Deciphering of the moon manuals (Dead sea scrolls)
Realization that humanity is the product of a omnipotent oversoul like entity gifting individuality to its children
Realization that shit can run and reverse and make an omnipotent oversoul like entity controlled by individuals
Magi built

Now:
Adam's children (Angels) are being born
For unknown reasons, Angels seek out Lilith (a major unexplained plot point)
Humanity repels Angels through Nerv to prevent Third Impact (so people think)

Instrumentality:
Everyone wants to go back to the Oversoul (Lilith) for various reasons
Gendo wants to live forever inside Eva with Yui, and doesn't care about anything else
The Illuminati (SEELE) want to live forever inside Eva to the exclusion of everyone else
Shinji wants to live in a word without pain, which Instrumentality fails to deliver

In the End:
Literally everyone dies. Only those with the will to continue living pull themselves out of the ocean of LCL.

~fin~

>>2808116

FAR = First Ancestral Race, for those wondering.

Those are never ever mentioned in the TV series or the movies, but they were mentioned on the earliest Evangelion proposal texts from 1993 (which were later published on the 100% Newtype artbook in 1996), and more recently people got to know more about them thanks to the classified information from the NGE2 videogame on ps2/PSP

>>2808116
>>2808129
Now I'm glad I never finished Evangelion or played Xenogears. You have done me a huge time-saving favor, anon.

>>2808137

>not having watched Evangelion in the 90s

>>2808147
ikr

>>2808154
>Not watching realtime video of it encoded at 64kb/s
>The lava tube episode
>Just red smear on screen.

>>2808137
The real reason why you watch this is because aska is the best grill.

>>2808147
Except I did, just never finished it. Almost none of that stuff was revealed in the original series episodes I saw, and boy am I glad I stopped in time based on that mess.

>>2808167
I'm not defending EVA but you know the lance thing is just a macguffin, it does not matter in the least.

>>2808158

>not watching the original ADV VHSs

I swear these VHSs had excellent image quality, they were "HD" to me at the time, compared to the other VHSs I owned.

>>2808167

You really missed out if you never watched EoE without knowing what you were getting into.

Now it's too late as you probably were over exposed to it thanks to the internet, but god damn, my 13 year old self could not handle the TUMBLING DOWN TUMBLING DOWN TUMBLING DOOOOOOOWN

>>2808098
I dunno. The battle system, towns, and dungeons were already kind of "meh" in the first disc. Would it really have added that much?

>>2808181
Haha. That movie alone made me stop watching anime for like four years; and this was just as I was growing out of my early 2000's Toonami binge. Man, Evangelion is soooo bad.

>>2808167
As was pointed out, 90% of that isn't in the show.

>>2808175
>>2808181
Thanks.

Anyone want to give me a thumbs up/thumbs down on Rahxephon as an alternative for someone who intentionally avoided getting entangled in Evangelion?

>>2808182

Not really. I get the feeling the amount of budget Square diverted from Xenogears to finish Final Fantasy 8 was significantly more than what Chrono Cross got hit with. Even had they the time, it just would've been more mediocrity to fill the disc.

>>2808191
Why would you do that?

>>2808186

So you watched Evangelion post-2000? So late!

There's a new evangelion movie coming out soon apparently with new characters or something. Anyways dumb question time. I recently rewatched evangelion for the first time in years. I'd never seen any of the movies. I checked out the first movie on anime1 and it felt like I was rewatching the series. Is it just the episodes chained together? Do they change the plot at all in later movies?

>>2808197

I don't know if you watched Rebuild of Evangelion 1.0 or Death and Rebirth.

Did you ever watch The End of Evangelion after the original series?

>>2808197
What new movie?

Are you watching Death and Rebirth? That's partially a recap of the series. You only need to watch End.

The Rebuilds are what introduce new characters.

>>2808191
eva is just doujin fodder now, it's become completely irrelevant

>>2808067
I actually liked that first ending.

>and then Shinji realized he was a depressed whiny sad sack
>JUST LIKE YOU OTAKUS!!!
>fin

>>2808116
>Going with the anime's ending
>Not going with the superior manga's ending

>>2808207
the ending is literally anno telling you to go outside and get a life

>>2808209
>>2808207
It's a little more positive than that.

Anyone got that bateman gif where he talks about nge in the subtitles?

>>2808207

it's the same ending on EoE, just form a different angle.

Shinji goes through the whole instrumentality process only to realize he still wants to "be here" (in the AT Field world) even if that means being hurt and hurting others, because it also means that you will get positive feelings as well.

CONGRATULATIONS! now you're stuck in a fucked up Earth.

>>2808207
>>2808213

>>2808219
I stopped reading this after the first line. There's a quote that I don't feel like looking up where Anno says what he thinks about otaku.

>>2808221
Basically: he doesn't hate otaku.

>>2808219

>>2808053
Shonen fighting robots with religious symbolism thrown in to make everything look deeper than it is.

Also, fuck you Shatner, you're not even the best Bill to plug computers.

>>2808224
He didn't hate their money at least.

Still love that ending. It'd be like watching Star Wars and just as the Death Star blows up the screen just goes "GO PLAY SOME SPORTS, COUCH POTATO!"

>>2808230
It's just too bad the previous scenes are basically nothing but monologues and some stupid hypothetical rom-com scenario that's shoved in to fuck with the audience. And if you didn't like the cast, then those were a complete borefest to sit through.

>>2808236
It was meant to fuck with the audience... at least until the moment when they decided to turn it into a real product.

>>2808236

I really, really like the experimental animation on episode 26.

Sure, a lot of it are still images or pictures, but parts like this really made it for me.

>>2808241
Then you have bad taste in media. Congratulations! (padum tsss)

I mean, I guess this kind of ending would be alright if:
a. the cast was even remotely likeable
b. the problems they faced in the show weren't already clearly portrayed in previous episodes

Look, I get it. They're mentally unstable and unfortunate people who have the fate of the world on their shoulders (for some batshit retarded lore-related reason). But for fuck's sake, Anno's more than proven that to us in the last 24 fucking episodes. Do we really need these tedious lectures that delve into the inner machinations of their fragile little minds? Especially when the actual ending is a big old "fuck you" to the audience - albeit with balloons and confetti.

>>2808262
You have shit taste.

>>2808262
it's just a cartoon dude, no need to get that mad over some one else liking an episode you didn't like

>>2808262
Why did it have to be 26 episodes anyway? I thought normally they only get to make 24 (2 cours of 12).

>>2808271
I ain't mad. Just bored.

So uh... how about that Xenogears?

>MFW Xenogears is such a shitty game that this has turned into an anime thread.

>>2808291
we've had thirty million threads about it already just this year alone

>>2808262
>Unlikable characters are bad characters

Man, you are a complete imbecile.

>>2808302
Those are words coming from your keyboard, buddy, not mine.

>>2808067
oh you mean just like xenogears? After watching evangelion it made me hate xenogears even more. Ive played through xenogears 3 times and at this point I despise the game. Its just shit.

The other day I started a Naruto thread on the anime board just to be an ass and caught a warning. Never had a warning before. I've had a few bans.

>>2808067
Running out of budget is just classic Gainax. They've managed to pull of great finales whilst simulataneously running out of budget before (See: Gunbuster).

>>2808321
So that's why Gunbuster sucked ass!

Is there any series where they did actually have decent budget management?

>then me and bubba went to the advanced civilization ruins and captured something funny called artifact

>>2808324
They'll claim the last part was without color for artistic reasons, but I dunno. Still it works out pretty good in my opinion.

It's a bit of a shame we have these really big fights that are only portrayed as stills, though. But on the other hand it left a lot of awesome battling to the imagination in a neat way.

Those scenes are, by the way, probably the reason people thought the manga scenes in FLCL to be cost-saving measures, while in actuality it was the opposite, as they say in the anime itself.

>>2808336
It was.

Xenogears was like a good version of Evanjellyon, which for 90% of the time consisted of people telling Shinji he should pilot a mech and then Shinji emo'ing out like a bitch. On the contrary, there was only like 30 minutes of emo (the forest with Elly after you blow up your hometown) in a game that lasts over 40 hours.

>>2808336
They obviously blew the budget on that South Park spoof.

>>2808329
Toppest of Kek's.

ZANKOKU NA TENSHI NO YOU NI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRGPz30uJzA

BEST RETRO GAME INTRO EVER

>>2808053
Just a bunch of religious symbolism shoehorned in to appear "deep". Lots of crosses for the sake of having crosses and names taken from the bible.

>>2808441
Except Xenogears' religious content goes much deeper than that, with the whole "organized religion is evil and finding god from within is what matters" trope going on. Also the Unabomberism that technology (like the mechanical god, nanomachines, and the mechs) are inherently evil and that nature is superior.

>>2808329

Best post in thread.

>>2808262

And you need reading comprehension, I was talking about the animation in that particular scene on the webm.
I don't care what you think about Evangelion's plot or characters, really. I've watched Evangelion back in the 90s and have read way too many retards give their opinion about it over the years. At this point I don't care.

>>2808441

Except the names in Evangelion actually make sense in the context of the series' lore.
Adam and Lilith are both seeds of life, Eva are the clones of Adam. I think it does have a kind of correlation with the actual Genesis (although Lilith was erased from christian books in the medieval times, I think? not too many christians nowadays know that Lilith even existed and that she was the first wife of Adam, although I think in jewish books she's still there, not sure).

If you think mixing sci-fi with religion is wrong, then you should also complain Arthur C. Clarke, one of the most acclaimed and valuable writers in the genre.

I get it, the actual religion themes in Evangelion are not strongly related to real life religion, but they aren't meaningless either. People pretending that "lol anno only used religion symbolism because he wanted to make it appear deeper XD" are just morons who parrot stuff they've read from others.
And before you come with any sort of Anno quote from any interview, I'll remind you that Anno said that Eva is just a show about "hot girls and giant robots" (when it's not even true, as Evas aren't robots, you've just been trolled classic Anno-style).

>>2808329
Honestly while it's a fucking shame what happened to Xenogears in disk 2 it didn't make me hate the game, I dunno I just liked the story and characters enough, And especially seeing all these spergs complaining that Xenogears is "EXACTLY LIKE EVA" Despite the different characters, Yeah Fei and Shinji are similar in a few ways but I think Fei has things that set him apart from Shinji. Also yeah Elly was a redhead girl who spoke Space German while Asuka knew German (Don't quote me on that I haven't seen eva I just know a tiny bit about it and the characters) But you have Characters like Billy, and the others and it's story is actually fairly different, The religious Symbolism in Xenogears didn't come off as wanting to be 2deep4u It actually did have to deal with Angels, and Gods and in the end you actually end up SAVING the god of the Xenogears universe.

>>2809073
>The religious Symbolism in Xenogears didn't come off as wanting to be 2deep4u It actually did have to deal with Angels, and Gods

Neither in Evangelion. The symbolism isn't trying to be "2deep4u", they're there for lore purposes as >>2809057 explained.

The creatures they call "Angels" in Evangelion ("Shito" in the original japanese, meaning Apostles) aren't really angels sent by God, but alternative life forms forms that were supposed to be the original habitants of Earth.
The "God" in Evangelion is just an ancient alien race, which is a common trope in sci-fi.

>>2808116
>For unknown reasons, Angels seek out Lilith (a major unexplained plot point)

They were seeking out Adam who was in Gendo's hand.

>>2809057
>I get it, the actual religion themes in Evangelion are not strongly related to real life religion, but they aren't meaningless either.

It's less about just tossing out names without meaning and more about when you reduce religion to a design document you miss a lot of the nuance of it, like the symbolism of the cross is mostly tied to Jesus Christ and his death on the cross, but then Evangelion pulls almost entirely from old testament creation myth and seemingly throws out crosses because they make cool looking explosions.

The contention isn't that they had no idea what they were talking about with the religious references, its that the very act of taking someone's creation myths and re-interpreting it as ancient aliens is kind of passe.

>>2809268

Crosses aren't necessarily related to Jesus Christ only... it's a very, very old symbol, and in many different regions.

>>2809247
This makes sense because Gaghiel attacks at sea while they transport Adam, and they even go as far as conjecturing that's why the fleet was attacked.

I must have secretly known that and forgot.

What amazes me is that the franchise more or less explains everything about the story and world in a logical fashion. Nothing seems forced or hard to accept once you know everything from the beginning to the end. I think that's why I like Eva so much. It's completely incomprehensible and gimmicky at first, but once you get it that all evaporates.

Than again it's impossible to know the full story from the show, which is a shame. Still the Classified Information from the PS2 game puts everything in perspective.

>>2809268
I've watched the show so many times I don't even 'see' the religious stuff anymore.

>>2809268
>its that the very act of taking someone's creation myths and re-interpreting it as ancient aliens is kind of passe.

As I said, it's a common trope for sci-fi, but the whole "ancient aliens" wasn't really that popular or "passe" outside of hardcore sci-fi nerds, I believe only recently with channels like History Channel is that most people became used to hearing about it or even make memes about it ("It's aliens!", etc), but back in 1995, not so much.

Basically what I'm saying is that yeah, Evangelion's sci-fi plot, at its core, is not something 100% original (then again, can YOU name a work of fiction that is original and doesn't use things from the past? everything dates back to the good old monomyth of The Journey of the Hero, after all), but that doesn't mean it has any less merit or that it's "shallow". I get that many people get upset because they hear others say that Evangelion is the best anime ever, or whatever (then again, who cares what other people think? subjective opinions, yours included), and that because of that, it receives backlash from contrarians, but sometimes that contrarian backlash can be as ridiculous as the people who claim Evangelion is the best work in humanity's history.

>>2808191
Rahxephon is gay as fuck. I barely remember it, but I was waiting for it to get good the entire show because my brother recommended it. Turns out I miss heard him say "Infinite Ryvius", which is a good show. Pretty much Lord of the Flies in space with a space ship and giant robot. Freaking brutal.

>>2809301
>As I said, it's a common trope for sci-fi, but the whole "ancient aliens" wasn't really that popular or "passe" outside of hardcore sci-fi nerds

It was the underpinnings to the plot of Star Trek 5. And come to think of it, Deep Space 9 was a space religion that was also ancient aliens. I imagine it happened a bunch in the X-files. It wasn't just hard core sci-fi. Hell, it's about as casual as you can get with sci-fi because it requires no scientific knowledge since you're talking about something that doesn't exist in relation to religions that tend to be fluid and splinter fairly commonly.


Pulling "you know that religious myth? Well. It's. Totally. True." is so common in literature, television, and film that it's really not noteworthy at all. It's just that naming aliens after obscure archangel names is more interesting than Indiana Jones saving Sean Connery's life with the holy grail, probably because when you go look up what the fuck Sachiel means you feel like you're discovering something on your own, and no one wants to admit they were duped in to thinking something was more meaningful than Anno picking a name from a list of obscure christian mythological beings.

>>2809304

RahXephon is decent. Not bad, not amazing either. It's just a bit on the bland side, which is still a helluva lot better than other attempts at recreating Eva's success that I've seen.

both think they're way more clever and interesting than they actually are

>>2809339

Hey bro Sachiel isn't an archangel, it's a cherub :^)

>>2809343

thanks for your insightful thoughts. I'll keep thinking about it.

>>2809339
Eva predates the bulk of both Deep Space 9 and the X-Files, which, additionally, have almost nothing in common with it.

>>2809301
>As I said, it's a common trope for sci-fi, but the whole "ancient aliens" wasn't really that popular or "passe" outside of hardcore sci-fi nerds

You must have known a bunch of people were going to prove you wrong when you wrote this.

Well here's your reply, because this is exactly what Scientologists have believed for decades, and in a more general sense, a great deal of actual real life creation myths involve gods or creators descending from outside of the Earth and creating humanity. These are millennia-old beliefs we're talking about here.

>>2809348
Not Zura. Katsura.

>>2809356

Yeah, I agree, but it wasn't until history channel did their ancient aliens shows that people in general started memeing about it, before that it was mostly a sci-fi nerd thing.
nowdays everyone knows about the trope, from meme kids to thug niggers, they've all been exposed because "ancient aliens" became a pop culture thing.

This might just be the most autistic thread in the history of /vr/.

>>2809372

check out: any STG thread, any emulation vs collector threads, the Ecco thread

>>2809378
I especially dislike the emulation vs. collector threads. Play however you like. I do both.

>>2809378
>>2809383

Truly this board has been better

>>2808116

Nice headcanon there

>>2809394
nice troll there :^)

>>2808208

Which is basically, the movie ending.

>>2809396

But it really is headcanon. Unless he provides source.

I used to be a huge Eva fan and never once did I read about this FAR shit. And his "explanation" leaves a bunch of plotholes because "it wasn't in the show". Seriously? It makes Evangelion seems even more retarded than it really is.

It's funny because he mixed his headcanon with actual information from the books then fucked up everything.

Not gonna even answer properly since I'm already a troll in a troll thread.

Just gonna say that Omega Booster is a cool mech-game. I also like Metal Warriors/Assault Suits and Front Mission Gun Hazard from the SNES.

>>2809404
>I used to be a huge Eva fan and never once did I read about this FAR shit.

You were a huge Eva fan and you never owned the 100% newtype art book?
The FAR were in the Eva canon since the beginning, they were mentioned on the 1993 proposal text.

>>2809404
yeah you're either uninformed or trolling

>>2809404
I found the source in 2 minutes
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Resources:Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_Proposal_%28Translation%29#Page_7_.28Apostolos.29

>>2808049

This is basically Unit-00.

>>2809763

It's more Giant Robo than anything else

>>2809763
Basically a Spesh Marine

>>2809286
>Still the Classified Information from the PS2 game puts everything in perspective.

That says a lot. It's a universe built for otaku; it pays benefits to people who live fan culture. If you don't experience it as an otaku, you're going to enjoy it much less (if at all). That's why it failed as a standalone show for me.

>>2809940
The majority of the audience, at least in the west, only saw the show and maybe End, ignoring (for the sake of this conversation) the Rebuilds. It was good enough then.

>>2809940
No one cares what you think, doe

>>2809940
Watching the show (Episodes 1-24), the movie (End), and reading the PS2 supplemental isn't otaku. The show was enjoyable even without the PS2. It's just the PS2 stuff is what really ties it all together, and it only takes like half an hour to read.

Anyway, it's been far longer since I played Xenogears, but let me see if I can remember what happens...

Humanity finds Zohar deep within ancient strata, a mysterious device thought capable of producing infinite energy
Humanity develops interstellar colony ships to explore the galaxy
Humanity also develops interstellar invasion superweapon Deus, powered by Zohar, in preparation for what they may find
Upon activation, Zohar can't get needed energy from this universe, so taps into next trapping nigh-omnipotent wave-existence
Deus goes out of control, is dismantled, and the parts are shipped out on different colony ships for debugging

Planetfall:
Colony ship Eldridge carries with it the Deus core (including the Zohar)
Abel, a passenger on the ship, contacts wave-existence
Deus core wakes up and takes over Eldridge
Captain scuttles ship to prevent Deus from retrieving its scattered body parts and attacking Earth
Eldridge crashes on the planet of Xenogears
Only Abel survives the crash
Program Miang started, which is Deus' repair mechanism, and generates humanity and its eponymous guide
Also generated is Elly, who is the wave-existance's answer to Abel's wish for a friend or mother

Through history:
Abel+Elly are reborn throughout history and relive their romance as fated lovers
ie Zeboim (Kim)
ie Nissan (Lacan)
ie Modern day (Fey)

Modern Day:
Deus thinks humanity is ripe enough for the pickin'
Rebuilds its core's body, servants (angels), and fortress (Merkava)
Fey and Elly destroy the Deus core

~fin~

I did a whole lot of violence to this summary, but in retrospect most of the game is irrelevant to the big picture of the events being conveyed. Also I don't remember shit. Someone help.

>>2810145
Autism is real.

>>2810042
If you have ever cared what anyone on 4chan thinks, you should probably just kill yourself.

>>2810039
Not for me.

>>2810145
>reading the PS2 supplemental isn't otaku
I'm sure you believe this, but honestly...

>>2809341
Found the show extremely boring. There are barely any fights and there's no good story to go along with it and the Mayan 2012 thing was handled piss poorly and I like how the new red mech turns out to be the muu like the evas but noone cares or mentions it what the fuck is that? You think that would be a disturbing revelation for the black chick that was pilot it but the show was too busy on it's shitty final fight to give a single fuck about it.

>>2810145

The classified information on the PS2 was mostly all stuff that was previously available on the Red Cross Book (which was distributed originally on theatres back in 1998 during EoE's rodation, and has been available in english since the late 90s on the internet in .txt), coupled with information from the 1993 proposal which was available on the 100% Newtype artbook also since the late 90s (not sure if it was ever published in english, but I've got the spanish edition around 1999).

Anyway, Evangelion is enjoyable even if you don't read that supplementary stuff.
Evangelion is not the only work to have cryptic lore, look at 2001: A Space Odyssey.