/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2795523
this thread is going places

>>2795523
>has the three most important genre-defining games of all time

Always loved the N64 and GameCube. Perfect number of amazing, quality games that a single person could play during the console's lifetime. Who needs the PS1's library? 1st Party Nintendo = video gaming at its best.

It doesn't have muh JRPGs and muh arcade ports that casuals love.

They're not the two most important games of all time or ever close. The N64 gets shit because those two are pretty much all it has whereas its competition had much larger, more well rounded libraries. It's funny, I do love those two games a lot but the N64 still always struck me as a bad system/

>>2795539
>arcade ports
>casual
No, collectathons are for casual kids, no casual is importing Saturn shmups or fighting games/

>>2795523
Haters gonna hate my friend, haters gonna hate.

>>2795539
jrpg's had already peaked before the n64 era, so there was no reason to have any on there

ff7 doesn't count because it was already in development for both the snes and n64 at different parts of its life

Does that make the Apple II the greatest thing ever?

>>2795552
>jrpg's had already peaked before the n64 era, so there was no reason to have any on there
That's insane. JRPGs peaked in popularity on the PS1 anyway. And even if they hadn't, I don't see how missing an entire genre on your system can be anything but a bad thing.

>>2795559
>I don't see how missing an entire genre on your system can be anything but a bad thing

because snes had the best jrpg library of all time and couldn't have possibly been matched in quality by the n64?

Can we keep this retarded console war bullshit out of /vr/, please?

>>2795539

It's very funny to me that you think of Zelda and Mario, and then define the other group as casual.

>>2795571
Well why even bother releasing a new system if the old one has shit covered? Why release a new Mario on the N64 if there's already one on the SNES? Dude this is pretty crazy even for fanboy nonsense.

>>2795523
I fucking love Mario 64, it's one of my favorites, but I can't help but feel it's importance to gaming as a whole is often overstated, or is attributed to the wrong qualities. It's biggest contributions were probably the player-controlled camera, which would go on to become more refined by other games, and as a proof of concept for the benefits of an analog stick instead of a d-pad. Both significant, though maybe someone here more knowledgeable than I can point to another game that did them first.

The thing I don't get is why people acting like defining the 3D platforming genre was a huge deal. I love 3D platformers, but in the grand scope of videogames they weren't really that influential or important. For the most part they didn't outlast the generation they were introduced in, and were more of a transitional phase while people were still figuring out 3D.

Like I said, I love the genre and I wish it was more common today, but in the history of vidya the 3D platformer is more of a footnote than a driving force.

>>2795581
because nintendo already knew the jrpg genre had peaked by then and they didn't need or want any of that shit on their console

>>2795571
Like 5 of those games are worth more than 7/10 and Earthbound is on there twice.

>>2795587
No, JPRGs hadn't peaked, PS1 RPGs were more popular. The N64 didn't have any RPGs because they fucked up when they chose cartridges and then pissed off Square and pretty much every other Japanese developer. They realised they fucked up so bad that they rushed Mother 3 into development and even tried to convince DMA to turn Body Harvest into an RPG they were so desperate. Looking at FF7's sales, JRPGs clearly hadn't peaked.

>>2795581
cause it didn't have 3d covered?

>>2795585
Mario 64 in particular showed everyone how tight controls could be with a joystick in a 3d environment, and how it could be easy to mass produce for the public. The importance is not overstated. OoT, SM64, and Goldeneye had a massive impact on every following console, Nintendo or not

I'm not even an Nintendo fag but it's pretty hard to dispute the N64's influence on console video gaming

>>2795526
007 release date: 23 august 1997
blood release date: 31 may 1997
doom release date: 10 december 1993
duke 3d release date: 29 january 1996
quake release date: 22 june 1996
dark forces release date: 28 february 1995
>implying

>>2795602
You're almost certainly talking to someone delusional fanboy who has never played a non Nintendo system.

>>2795523
Because outside of a bunch of overrated games its library is the weakest of the 5th gen.

>>2795594
>equating popularity to quality
>using ff7 as the only example because there are no others
>not realizing ff7 started development in the 16-bit era before jrpg's had peaked

I'm normally fine with early 3D games, I still love the original Tomb Raider and Jumping Flash and shit but I just cannot stand N64 blur. I'll take pixelation and texture warping over that Vaseline look any day.

>>2795602
>Goldeneye's the first one you can play with an analog controller

reminder that Sony designed the dualshock after the success of SM64, and the dualshock/dual analog controllers came after the N64's release

>>2795523
oh wow the only two good games on n64

>>2795624
>implying again
>Raven Software's November 1994 release CyClones featured a rather primitive implementation of the free look; main movement was via keyboard (with turning and strafing via key combinations), but the on-screen weapon aim point was moved independently via the mouse. Moving the aim point against the edge of the screen would cause the viewpoint to shift up (only temporarily) or to the side (again, haltingly). Unfortunately, this system proved cumbersome and Raven Software did not develop this particular system further. The 1993 DOS version of Bram Stoker's Dracula also used the mouse to aim the player's weapon cross-hair, similar to CyClones, but the player's viewpoint was controlled entirely by the keyboard and did not move with the cross-hair.
>Quake (1996), is widely considered to have been the turning point in making free look the standard

>>2795674
so did you not read what I wrote or are you just copy pasting shit and hoping i'm high

>>2795608

Call me a Treasure fanboy, but I think a console with 3 of the best Treasure games can't be the weakest, same with the Saturn.

PS1's library is big, but I think it's actually the weakest.

That is, if we ignore that Jaguar or 3Do are also 5th gen, though.

>>2795686
A mouse is an analog controller

It's shit

>>2795690
>PS1's library is big, but I think it's actually the weakest.
Only a delusional fanboy would think this, but you yourself admitted you're one.

>>2795712

I love the PS1 too, don't get me wrong, but I feel a lot of people's favorite PS1 games aren't really that good, lots of overrated platformers like Crash or Spyro, or boring JRPGs with too many FMV cutscenes and loading times.

I do love me some Ghost in the Shell though.

>>2795614
ffvi
ffvii
ffviii
ffix
ffx

the Golden age of RPGs. sadly Nintendo lost a lot of it.

>Has two games that proved those franchises couldn't properly work in 3D

That's why, OP.

>>2795748

more like the golden age of fujoshi-pandering bishies and loading times

>>2795749
isn't it like Mario 3d on wii u reached ps2 tier graphics just recently? how many years did it take Nintendo to master 3d?

>>2795718
>but I feel a lot of people's favorite PS1 games aren't really that good, lots of overrated platformers like Crash or Spyro, or boring JRPGs with too many FMV cutscenes

I can say the same about Zelda, Goldeneye and Mario for the N64 or Shining Force, Virtual On and Burning Rangers for the Saturn.
The PS1 was admittedly the one that dominated the market because it mustered an enormous library and the complete support of 90% of the devs of the time, you can argue all you want but no console of the time can stand up to its library, sure the Saturn had the best arcade ports and usually the best shared titles with the exception of Symphony of the Night, the N64 had the best specs, but fact is the PS1 was unrivalled in number and overall quality of games, this isn't even a matter opened to discussion, look at the "best videogames" of the generation, vast majority of those is on the PS1, even in terms of genre research, licensed games or weird japanese games the PS1 has the majority of the best the industry had to offer, saying that either Saturn or N64 had three or four games successful games or better versions won't change the reality of things.
I like games like Ogre Battle 64 and Gunhound, but those aren't nearly enough to compete with all the stuff on the PSX, inferior specs and all that.

>>2795749

But this isn't an unpopular opinion thread.

Yeah, OP is probably a troll and he succeeded because the N64 and especially those 2 games triggers most "gaming connoiseurs" immensely, but the popular opinion is that, indeed, those 2 are some of the most genre-defining games in history, at least regarding 3D gaming.

>>2795753
still the Golden age of RPGs everyone will remember. Snes and psx defined RPGs. n64 didn't. easy as that. everyone else who claims RPGs didn't peak on psx are delusional fanboys or in denial because they bought the 'wrong system' , Instead of both.

>>2795765
what are gaming conosseiours? sounds autistic. can we ban these people from these boars?

ITT: Mascot 3D Platformers are the ultimate video game genre

Kill yourselves

>>2795759

It all comes down to personal taste, I think.

I don't really agree that PS1 wins on the quality department, it sure does on quantity though. But again it all comes down to taste, a lot of people will argue that games like Crash Bandicoot or Syphon Filter are good, and to me they're mediocre at best.

I like stuff like Einhander, Hamrful Park and Ghost in the Shell on PS1, but I have enjoyed more games on N64 and Saturn than on PS1 overall, not even talking about games like Zelda or Mario, or the Saturn games you mentioned (I also think a lot of people don't like Burning Rangers, isn't Nights a lot more popular?)

>>2795785

nice reading comprehension there

If a game doesn't have fmvs it sucks. I still think that today. It's a big let down for me nowadays, since a lot of studios cheap out and do a lot of in game cutscenes instead of beautiful hyperrealistic cutscenes. Zelda on N64 is an exception. I love that game. But every other game that I love from that generation or later games, they all have cutscenes to convey the story. It is important. Story is the most important element to me, more important than gameplay. I'm not that average vr Autist that loves nes games without story and cutscenes. I guess that's why I despite the NES. wow, I never thought this would turn out into my I hate the NES proclamation. My favourite console is actually the ps2 with even more fmvs in games like Prince of persia, resident evil, Kingdom hearts, ffx , God of war, silent hill. Without fmvs these would've been half as great as the story element is very important in these games. But resident evil 4 survives without fmvs it has God tier gameplay, I love it. but imagine silent hill or final fantasy without cutscenes. It would really suck. the atmosphere would be lost.

>>2795820

Your bait might be able to catch a dinichthys

>>2795790
I only know of a few quality games and that would be zelda games on n64 and final fantasy games + silent hill on psx. everything else is reductive. I think psx has more quality games, although weaker hardware. This is of course my personal opinion.

>>2795790
>It all comes down to personal taste, I think.

Yeah, welcome to the real world where people have their own personal taste and can discuss like civil human beings, but point is the only "objective fact" is that the PS1 destroyed its competition like no console did before because of its library so any claim in these kind of threads about "better consoles" is rendered null by this simple objective fact.

For every genre defining game on N64 or Saturn you'll get more on PS1, it's goddamn inevitable and kind of a shame because a lot of those games would run or look better on the competition but again, it's widely accepted. And admittedly, neither N64 or Saturn fared well for certain genres because they were almost non existent in their respective libraries.

Funny you mention Harmful Park though because I literally played and finished it less than three hours ago, pretty looking game but a bit short, I hope very hard actually poses a threat because I 1cc normal and it was a snoozefest even for a SHMUP amateur like me. Very Saturn-y looking game.

>>2795572

I concur.

>>2795836
>For every genre defining game on N64 or Saturn you'll get more on PS1
I love the PS1 but the Saturn trounces it when it comes to fighters and SHMUPs.

>>2795829
When I see someone say bait I genuinely think they disagree with me but are too butthurt or don't have any argument against me so they try to discredit me. This is a lot like Sjws on tumblr who don't take any different opinions. What makes you think this is bait? In what world do you live in that you could you think there are no people who love the ps2? What isolated autistic world?

>>2795841
I didn't even know this console existed. never heard of it before. Did I miss some good game?

>>2795842

What arguments do you want me to present with such a subjective matter? You think FMVs are more important than gameplay. I think your intention is to bait, but if that's also your actual opinion, then I find it amusing.

>>2795841
>but the Saturn trounces it when it comes to fighters and SHMUPs.
How many of those are shared titles though?
Because I'm pretty damn sure most of those are shared, the PS1 still has more Fighting Games and SHMUPs than the Saturn even though the Saturn runs those games much better.
If I were given the choice I'd sure play Vampire Savior on Saturn but I can't really play Soul Blade, Bushido Blade or Guilty Gear on Saturn, and for SHMUPs I don't really care too much about prettier graphics, sure, Saturn has Radiant Silvergun but PS1 has ZanacxZanac and a ton of other exclusives.

>>2795873
>How many of those are shared titles though?
a good amount but the saturn ports are much better
>Soul Blade, Bushido Blade or Guilty Gear on Saturn
garbage
>ZanacxZanac
garbage

>>2795890
>>Soul Blade, Bushido Blade or Guilty Gear on Saturn
>garbage
>>ZanacxZanac
>garbage
Nice hot opinions.

I too think Virtua Fighter and Batsugun or Battle Garegga are garbage.

Whatcha gonna do about that, Saturnbro?
The PS1 still has more games.

>>2795859
No, it's my actual opinion,as I play mostly story based games, since I am a cineast. I like it when games are as immersive as movies. I liked that in Final Fantasy X, Silent Hill 2 for example or Heavy Rain. All those games are very cinematic. I like that. But you don't actually need fmvs as you can see in ocarina or time or final fantasy vi. they are not as cinematic as a final fantasy viii intro but they and their story are still very precious to my heart. It's just different. It's then more like a book where more is left to your imagination (ffvi).Ocarina of time works without fmvs. it has its own charme like that and it matches the atmosphere so all is good. Another thing that adds to cinematic experience and is also very important to me is the music. The music is really amazing in Ocarina of time. Think of the decku tree song, wow. Or the ocarina songs. Also think of the god tier orchestral music of the FFs. Sephiroths theme. the ff viii intro. the ffx ending music. just wow. Or listen to Kefkas orchestral theme (from the cd) , also very amazing.

>muh shmups and fagting games
literally the worst genres in existence. saturn had no games. fuck off.

>>2795912

>almost 2016
>posting pepe

Just let it go anon

>>2795771
and what does RPGs "peaking" have to do with genre defining games, or what consoles they were played on?

>>2795923

Basically this thread proved that a lot of people have awful reading comprehension, or that they care about console war first and foremost.

Then again, that was OP's intention all along.

>>2795757
No, Super Mario Sunshine already did that.

>>2795935
what gen?

yall go on arguing. meanwhile I'm having fun on Grindr

>>2795836
> PS1 destroyed its competition like no console did before

true

>because of its library

not true or proven

> so any claim in these kind of threads about "better consoles" is rendered null by this simple objective fact.

>That which sells the most is the "best", and renders any other factor null and void

>For every genre defining game on N64 or Saturn you'll get more on PS1

The N64 has more than any other console in the generation due to the simple fact that it was truly 3D and had the first analog controller for a console. It has nothing to do with the library, aside from the fact that the people that made these "genre defining" titles did something right in what was basically the Great Unknown.

So yeah I don't think the PS1 has more "genre defining" titles than the N64. It probably has more notable and playable titles, but the two aren't the same

I am playing Ocarina of Time for the first time right now on a Wii with Gamecube backwards compatibility (the collection with the 2 NES games, Ocarina and Majora), and it is a pretty good game, so far it doesnt seem overrated to me (third dungeon).
It also looks completely acceptable on a crt, I dont see why someone would prefer to pay more to play it on the 3DS.
Also, the Gamecube controller works very well with the game. I never used an N64 controler, do people actually like them?

On Topic

I would say the N64 is like a tennis player who won 5 grandslams, but only 20 regular tournaments, while the PS1 is like a tennis player that won 3 grand slams, but 60 regular tournaments.

Most people would consider the second tennis player to be better, even if the first one had higher peaks in his career.

>>2795942
that's your autistic opinion lol. Majority of gamers will tell ya otherwise, but keep going everyone is entitled to his opinion.

N64 had a few great games
PS1 had many good games

>>2795947

>gamers

you mean people that started playing games after the year 2000? their opinion doesn't count

>>2795759
>I can say the same about Zelda, Goldeneye and Mario for the N64
No, you really can't. Those games are good in totally unprecedented ways.

>>2795790
The original Crash is definately 'overrated' if you consider it a classic, but I'm not aware of many people who genuinely though of it as something great beyond being a tech flagship for the console. There are far better PS1 games, including its own sequels. The first Spyro is solid, and especially interesting to 100%, but is otherwise way too piss easy and pales in comparison to 64 games like Banjo.

The PS1 has some fantastic games, like Tomba and the original Tomb Raider, but N64's exclusives really do shit on everything.

>>2795943
Dude I made the fatal mistake of mapping the n64 truth worthy to my ps3 controller where a is x and B is square. I fucking got confused because I'm used to wii classic controller layout or Gameboy layout where a is o and b is x.

>>2795953
you mean your opinion values more than the majority of humans while you try to discredit them at the same time ? . kek. get of your high horse, you boar

>>2795909
good for you man
you should check out these things called movies.

But on a serious note, I disagree with you, and I think that FMVs aren't exactly a cop-out but something pretty close. I think the best games around are those that have the ability to tell stories and convey messages/atmosphere well without having FMVs as an important part of the plot (Probably second to entertainment value though, obviously).

Thief or Super Metroid for example. While Thief has FMVs, they're shit and pretty unimportant, and the game gets it's acclaim from the heavy, brooding, spooky atmosphere that comes with thieving around alone and within feet of danger. Super Metroid does very much the same thing with a different atmosphere, and I think the final moments of it are some of the more well-executed in video game storytelling.

>>2795965

>majority of humans

???

>>2795975
>the non autists

>>2795937
Sixth generation. I wasn't the one who initially brought it up but I'll drop it since it's not really /vr/ talk.

>>2795943
> I never used an N64 controler, do people actually like them?

Not really. Even though the analog stick was a good idea, the stick itself was pretty flimsy and would wear down during intense Mario Party sessions. The three-handled controller design was a bit much for my small child hands too.

>>2795978

You keep making less and less sense.

>>2795947
>Majority of gamers will tell ya otherwise,

you know, I doubt that, because it's just not true. And I think most gamers that were exposed to N64/PS1 in any capacity generally have a closer affinity to the N64 because of those titles, rather than PS1, where I mostly just hear people talking about FF7, FF10, and Twisted Metal, if we're talking about the "majority of gamers". And those were hardly genre-defining, with the arguable exception of FF7

What genre-defining games are on PS1? I don't think many, because PS1 didn't introduce many completely new genres. This isn't rocket science.

>>2795571
PS1 JRPG's > SNES JRPG's.

>>2795967
never played those before. but I'm trying metroid on the NES, though it's not really my thing . we obviously have a very different taste in gaming, so there's nothing to argue about since we no common basis to start off.

>>2795983

Are you the FMV-loving guy?

>>2795982
FFIX, before you call me on it like the autist you say I am.

>>2795993
I like how a lot of PS1 JRPG's tend to change up game mechanics in regards of developing your character or combat.

>>2795982
again you are looking at it from an autistic stand point. outside of the autistic world things look differently, but that's okay dude as long as it makes you feel better. I do the same about hfr movies, I'm very autistic about HFR

>>2795993
no

>>2795992
For what it's worth, the original Metroid isn't a very good indicator of whether or not you'll like Super Metroid

This is still the best RPG of 5th gen

>>2796002
I'll try that out too in near future,when I'm through with nes.

>>2795997
>let me just ignore what you write and call you an autist instead

yep seems about right, people as truly autistic as you would conduct conversation like that

>>2795982

The 3 most important PS1 games are Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil and (less) Final Fantasy VII.

The first 2 games invented the cinematic third person shooter. Without them we wouldnt have modern games like The Last of Us or Uncharted.

Final Fantasy VII is important but for commercial reasons, it was the commercial breakthough of Japanese RPGS in the west, it made that genre popular outside Japan.

>>2795997

I know that you feel funny by using "autistic" as a means to insult anonymous people you don't agree with on the internet.

But actual autistic people aren't really that much concerned about console wars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_23z9yJAq0

>>2795982
silent hill
ff7 redefined RPGs
metal gear solid
tomb raider
tekken

>>2796015
only am Autist would say something like that. only Autists go sperglord over old consoles.

>>2795526
This one really is the most influential game of the N64. 4-player multiplayer became a staple for all of video gaming because of this -- A staple which remains to this day.

>>2796013
>>2796023

The only game I think qualifies is MGS.

Tekken has its fans, but without Virtua Fighter, there'd be no Tekken.
Silent Hill and Resident Evil are good, but they wouldn't exist without Alone in the Dark (also RE was also released on Saturn)

Tomb Raider I remember it more as a PC game and wouldn't call it a defining game, but I guess some people will disagree.

>>2795557
No, that would be the Apple III, because it got Steve Jobs fired.

>>2796023
oh yeah of course resident evil I forgot >>2796013

if you add to these list also the popular titles like ffviii, ffix re 2,re3, parasite eve, all the Snes ports, clock tower, spyro, crash bandicoot and what not you have a really unbeatable game library for this gen.

>>2796013
There you go, there's one genre PlayStation games did define. I learn something new every day.

>>2796023
Survival Horror's probably another one. I dunno about FF7 redefining RPGs or Tekken or Tomb Raider.

>>2796027
The single player campaign is massively underrated in this day and age.

>>2796032
Nigger we aren't talking about game libraries, and none of those games you listed defined anything. We all know the PS1 had a much bigger library than anything else in it's gen

>>2796028
silent hill and resident evil are well defining games. they may have roots in something else, but they are their own genre, as they are very unique. there is no game like silent hill. you are just being ignorant right now or in deep denial.

>>2796027
It's probably one of the, if not the, most influential video game of the last 20 years as far as the industry goes

>>2796039
you mean ffvii?

>>2796037

You seem overly defensive, calm down I'm not saying these games are bad or anything.

I said SH is good, but I don't know about defining... maybe in terms of artistic values, but not in terms of gameplay/mechanics, and what defines a game genre is the game mechanics, not the artistic values.

>>2796041
what? you can't be serious

>>2796042
if you think silent hill is not an defining genre game something is fundamentally wrong with you.

>>2796045
I am ya bald rubbish ya

>>2796047

I'm open to debate, guy. No need to call us names and that /v/ shit.

I really like SH's artistic values, it really feels like a trip into the worst kind of paranoia nightmares, but what's "genre defining" about it?

So to some this up:
FFVII redefined jrpgs into 3d like Mario64 for Plattformers
Silent Hill Psychological Horror
Resident Evil Survival Horror
Metal Gear solid Stealth games
Tomb Raider (pc port) titty based games

>>2795904
>more games.
enjoy garbage psx shovelware

and you're a faget if you think vf or batsugun/garegga are garbage. or initial d. or nights. or burning rangers. or bug 1/2. or clockwork knight 1/2. or lupin 3rd: sage of pyramid. or virtua fighter 1/2. and so forth.

>>2796004
Thanks Stolar.

>>2796067
engrish?

>>2796058
>Silent Hill Psychological Horror
>Resident Evil Survival Horror

They are both improvements over the Alone in the Dark formula, but ultimately they didn't add anything new, they just improved on it.

You go around exploring some area, you solve puzzles, you get chased by enemies and have limited resources (hence the survival part), you get multiple endings, etc, etc, all done by AitD first, including the pre-rendered backgrounds and tank controls.

I also don't think FF VII really redefined the genre, its impact has more to do with commercial appeal as >>2796013 said. Take out the low poly character models and the FMVs and it's another turn-based JRPG like any other, doesn't add anything new in terms of genre.

>>2796058
>Metal Gear Solid Stealth Games
Thats not how you say Deus Ex

>>2796058
I don't think FF7 redefined anything. 3D JRPGs are still just JRPGs in pretty much every way aside from movement (the games are played the same way), whereas in platformers it literally adds another dimension to the way the game is played.

>>2796023
Tomb Raider was Saturn

>>2796084
You mean Thief?

>>2796084
>>2796058
>genre defining stealth game
>not thief
??

>>2795523
Let's see, we've got
>mediocre action adventure who's "advancements" were abandoned like 3 years later
And
>Mediocre "platformer" which spawned the now defunct "collect things for 15 hours or so" genre, which ALSO died off like years later

"Important" indeed...
That's like Saying Twisted Metal was Important. Awesome to play, sure, but it only spawned a few rip offs and now the entire genre's dead. So what "important" really happened?

Street Fighter 2, Final Fantasy VII, Devil May Cry, Resident Evil 4. THOSE are important games, because like them or not, they each spawned countless rip offs, their genres have changed very little since their releases and they're still relevant today.

Mario 64 is an oddity who's entire fanbase consists entirely of the few thousand kids who's first game it was back in the day (and a few hipsters, I guess) and OoT, the biggest fucking meme game ever made. Which is popular literally, ONLY because "everyone loves it" and retarded apes talk it to death on the internet, rather than play it.

Get a grip and get a life, OP.

>>2796089
>>2796087
Can't argue with that

>>2796090

FF VII is not a genre defining game, read the thread before posting.

>Mario 64 is only liked by a few thousand kids
>"meme game" meme

Let me guess, you were born in 1996 or later.

>>2795523
OoT's "Z" targeting got ripped off by a handful of shovelware games that no one liked, and like what? 2 or 3 games anyone ever played. Not counting future Zelda's, of course.
And Mario 64 spawned a platformer sub-genre that has literally good games in it. And Mario 64 isn't even one of them!

You're a retadr. If we're talking "best console of all time" then that goes to the PS2 because:

>DMC3
>MGS3
>RE4 port (honestly, the only good one)
>FFX
>Tekken Tag
>Twisted Metal Black
>NFS: Hot Pursuit 2
>Persona 3
>GTA San Andreas
I could go on. That's what a truly great console looks like anon (yeah, "not /vr/" go to hell with that)

The N64 was an oddity with a handful of great exclusives, but shit third party support, shit variety, literally half of the existing genres at the time got ONE rep (if any). It's a waste of space, unless you can get it for dirt cheap.

Also:

>F-Zero X
>Goldeneye

That right there are 2 of the only reasons to even bother with the fucking thing. You could honestly skip OoT AND Mario 64, and be no poorer for it.

anyone on grindr here?

>>2796090
>SM64's advancements were abandoned 3 years later
>OoT as a "platformer" whose genre died years later

>FF7, Devil May Cry, RE4 were important
m8 ur a good troll i'll jab ur mum if u keep posting liek that tho

>>2796095
>>2796090

>oddity

you like that word, eh, 6th gen kid?

>RE4 port on PS2

god have mercy on us

>>2796095
>>2796090
where do you kids live that school just got out

>>2796067
>lupin 3rd: sage of pyramid

It was fun but man if it wasn't one of the ugliest games on the Saturn.

>>2796095
>>2796090
So school just got out for you huh

the autism in this thread
>n64 shills
>ps2 shills

yuck!

>>2796095
>You could honestly skip OoT AND Mario 64, and be no poorer for it.

Honestly, if you like platformers and action/adventure games I see no reason to not play them.

>>2796095
he didn't even choose the right persona guys, get a load of this guy

>>2796127
I see one reason for each:
>20fps
>30fps

>>2796149

6th gen kiddy, please.

>>2796149
wew lad

>>2796152
6th gen? 60fps was standard pre-5th gen. 5th gen was a huge step back in motion quality. And 6th didn't even recover what was lost because of interlacing. Not until 7th gen did we approach NES quality again.

>>2796079
Mario 64 was not genre defining. Take out the 3D and all you get is a platformer like every platformer on NES and SNES. ZOoT wasn't genre defining, all it was was Zelda 1&3 in 3D,with a horsey added. Yay...

And of course Golden Eye, which was nothing more than another generic Doom clone in a sea of hundreds. 3D had been around on computer since the 80s, the 5th gen was a joke, just move on with your lives

>>2796167

6th gen kid:

por favor
S'il vous plaît
Bitte
おねがいします
пoжaлyйcтa
xin vui lòng
من فضلك
請

>>2796175
>Take out the 3D and all you get is a platformer like every platformer on NES and SNES.
that doesn't make any sense

>>2796175

>not genre defining, they're just like the 2D games, but in 3D

you can do better than that, anon-kun.

also yeah I never claimed anything about Goldeneye.

>>2796167
nes sucks cock. I rather interlace my anus in 10fps than be a nes whore

>>2796185

he isn't even a NES fan, he's just namedropping the NES to fit in, he's a 6th gen kid.

They're really not very good genres though

>>2796180
I grew up with DOS games. They all had bad framerates before Jazz Jackrabbit. But now I know good framerates are possible, I see no reason to play games with bad framerates. There are already more good games out there than I have time to play.

>>2796189

Good thing you're speaking for yourself

>>2796175
Here's your reply, go jump off a bridge

>>2796193
objectivity is beyond the mortal ken

>>2795759
Control-F'd Ogre Battle. At least you've played it. I feel like a lot of N64 lovers missed put on that title. Sure, I've got every ps1 jrpg worth owning, but I still love it.

censorship. terrible controller. goldeneye was way the fuck over-rated.
/thread

>>2796203
>Sure, I've got every ps1 jrpg worth owning
DOUBT

>>2796175
>Take out the 3D and all you get is a platformer like every platformer on NES and SNES.

Fair enough, if you take out the 3D then that means there's not much reason to keep around the analog controls and player controlled camera.

>>2796175
well written, yet terrible fucking bait. you tried too hard, should have stopped at mario64 but saying OoT is anything like 1-3 is simply retarded to the point you should not be able to spell so well due to being too busy clapping and fingering yourself

>>2796204
>censorship

What games did that affect besides Conker's Bad Fur Day?

>>2796175
if you take the 3d out of doom you get what it really was, just a space invaders clone

FPSs are all space invaders clones

>>2796219

video games are all Pong clones with added gimmicks

>>2796215
almost every game that was released on multiple platforms, some of them tried to make up for it with "bonus levels" like Gex64 but it was less then a quarter of an ass job.

>>2796225

>Gex 3D

well, the 3D Gex games were already less then (sic) a quarter of an ass job, N64 or not.

>>2796219
the controls for space invaders were 1d dude, it was lust left and right.

what's going on in this thread?

>>2796229
it's been a while but I beat Gex 2 and found it pretty fun. but that was with youth-blinders on when I was limited to what I could rent, usually.

>>2795526
I loved GoldenEye as a kid. 100%'d it (OO Agent and unlocked all the cheats) and could destroy my friends at the multiplayer. However I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole in 2015. It really has aged like absolute shit. Meanwhile I can still play Doom, Duke, Quake, Blood et al with no hesitation. Not only are these FPS's still great, they're in fact better than their contemporary counterparts and have only gotten better with time. GoldenEye on the other hand feels exactly like what it is and has only gotten worse for it: a 20 fps slideshow console shooter. To say that this is the most important FPS defining game ever is absolutely fucking retarded and is coming from someone that clearly knows fuck-all about the genre.

I'd also like to point out that I absolutely loved the N64 and have some of my fondest memories ever on that console. I agree that Mario 64 and OoT are phenomenal games. I'm just calling it like it is though: GoldenEye simply does not compare to PC FPS's like Quake or Doom; not by any damn sight.

All videogames are just some combination of rhythm game and puzzle game.

I can't think of any that aren't that without also being land orcas

>>2795523

>>2796057
Console based horror games that the public liked.

>>2795526
The only achievement of Goldeneye was dumbing down Doom and Quake (both older) to be slow enough to play with a massively inferior controller.

>>2796246

But that's more of a commercial reason, like FF VII, not a genre defining matter.

Also AitD was mad popular when it came out in 1992.

>>2796248

Doom and Quake (single player) arent more difficult than Goldeneye and Perfect Dark.

>>2796239
The true genre defining FPSs:
Doom - for speed and excitement
Quake - for internet play and arbitrary 3D maps (Descent was first but Descent maps were only made of deformed cubes)
Counterstrike - for pseudo-realism

>>2796239
that's funny cause I played it months ago and had a blast.

And it is the most important game as far as console FPSs go. There's no doubt about it.

>>2796248

Eh, I love Doom, but you played that with the directional arrows originally, I don't think 4 directional arrows are better than the analogue stick.

>>2796257
Doom on nightmare is way harder than ge and pd.

>>2796257
Doom is difficult on nightmare. Quake a bit less so because of lower monster density. In both cases the difficulty comes from level design not fighting bad controls, which is a much more fun form of difficulty.

And FPSes are really intended for multiplayer anyway.

>>2796265
>And it is the most important game as far as console FPSs go. There's no doubt about it.
among retards that may well be the case

>>2796268
The demos it came with were recorded with a mouse. The easier difficulties were tweaked to be playable with keyboard (same with Quake), but Doom was always intended to be played with mouse.

>>2796271
>among retards
Well, it's first person shootan we're talking about, so...

>>2796271
*Oh excuse me, I missed the 'console' part
fine, maybe so. but console fps is vomit anyway so who cares?
maybe the halo babies will fight you, lets see

>>2796265
egh... I'm not a fan of either but I gotta say Halo was more ground breaking for console. The only other games goldeneye spawned were re-makes for later systems while Halo actually continued a storyline.
I might have given a shit about goldeneye if they used the engine for other bond movies

>>2796271
You're the retard lacking reading comprehension buddy. Without this game there would be no Halo or CoD series or 100s of other console games like them (for better or worse). This isn't up for debate, you're disagreeing is just proving your retardation ;)

I'm not saying that Doom or Quake aren't less defining of the genre as a whole, but GE is what made the console FPS into what it is.

>>2796280
what he says in the spoiler bar

>>2796236
Not much.

Also, the Playstation Goemon games are ass.

>>2796167
>60fps was standard pre-5th gen
Then what the hell was the SNES doing?

>>2796225
Fair enough, I suppose. Though to be honest I couldn't have given less of a fuck about multiplatform games when I was a kid.

>>2796239
> a 20 fps slideshow console shooter
I agree that this is its biggest problem. But otherwise, what issue do you have with it?

>>2796285
uhhhhhhh. wat. this isn't the same guy but that's just insane, something would have come along, The genre had existed long before goldeneye and goldeneye wasn't the first fps on n64. I recall DooM and Hexen 64 bein g way better and easier to control. The only reason Goldeneye got so many fans is because Nintendo power was told by their owners at Nintendo to suck Rare's cock

>>2796257
This is completely false.

>>2796302
>The only reason Goldeneye got so many fans is because Nintendo power was told by their owners at Nintendo to suck Rare's cock

ur exactly rite m8 its not because it was a fun game that 4 friends could play together in the same room and have fun

>>2796304
Sorry, read it wrong, it's utterly true that Ge is at least as difficult as Doom at its hardest.

>>2796293
Most SNES games are 60fps. Only exception I can immediately think of is Prince of Persia.

Back the fuck up nintenkiddies, stand aside sonyggers.
Best 5th gen FPS coming through

>>2796302
You mean a Nintendo owned company gives preference to another then Nintendo owned company? Whoa.

But in all seriousness, it gained traction because it was a console shooter that was decent and had James Bond. People fucking love James Bond.

>>2796280
>>2796282
lol I called it

looks like I'm samefagging because of the times but I swear it's not me :^)

>>2796285
>Without this game there would be no Halo or CoD series
lol that's not even right.

COD started on PC you moron and was originally a PC centric series up until MW1. Halo was also originally going to be a PC shooter but Microsoft bought the rights to it for eks bawks. The original still came out on PC anyway though.

Anyway like I said console FPS is literally trash anyway so who gives a fuck? It's like arguing some retard is good because he gave rise to the special olympics el oh el.

>>2796264
This guy gets it.

>>2796316
I can confirm that all of these posts including this one are in fact me.

>>2796316
>man I was so pissed when Halo 2 wan't ported to PC, Halo 1 for PC was pretty much 1.75, all they did aside from was add a fucking sword.
I was driving circles around the enemy base in the scorpion tank on blood gulch while my friend sniped off the fuckers who escaped before any of the xbox players figured that cheap shit out.

>>2796310
60 fps with occasional slowdowns*

>>2796376
i didn't mean to green text that

>>2796368

this is me posting again hi mom

It's truly hilarious reading all of these underage people with no sense of time on /vr/ shit talk on Goldeneye, and actually say hilariously inane statements like that Halo was more important to the FPS genre than Goldeneye.

Now in this thread I'm going to make a few bold statements about Goldeneye's place in history. And if you disagree, instead of a sassy response that only further proves your underage, simply post the name of a game with a release date to disprove it (along with a video of the game showing why it disproves it).

At the time Goldeneye was released, PC only had two FPS games (let's clarify that as a game that is not primarily about shooting from vehicles or mechs) with a true 3D engine.

-Terminator Future Shock
-Quake

Only two. And the former doesn't even have true 3D enemies.

-Goldeneye was the fist commercial FPS to have headshot damage, and the first FPS period to have limb shot damage.

-Goldeneye is the first FPS where shooting enemies in different parts of their body results in a different animation

-Goldeneye was the first FPS to have a dedicated reload button

-Goldeneye was the first FPS that had objectives other than collect object and/or get to the end of the level

-Goldeneye was the first FPS where the difficulty settings actually changes your level objectives

-Goldeneye was the first FPS in which friendly NPCs can progress the story in-engine through conversation

-Goldeneye was the first FPS where enemies can dodge your attacks in an animated way

-Goldeneye was the first FPS where the level design actually attempted to recreate the architecture of real buildings

-Goldeneye was the first FPS that had levels designed around stealth and proper stealth mechanics (noise detection, security cameras, weapons with silencers, etc)

-Goldeneye was the first FPS in which you could dual-wield different weapons simultaneously

-Goldeneye was the first FPS with a split-screen 4 player multiplayer

...

>>2796664

I don't think it's just underages but also people who didn't had a N64 back in the day so they want to minimize the console's importance in history, as well as its games, simply because it wasn't a part of their childhood/adolescence's memory.

>>2796664
It was the first FPS to support dual analog controls, along with analog-aim+digital movement settings.

>>2796664
...

-Goldeneye was the first FPS in which you could see enemies through transparent glass

And there are probably a few more I can't remember even.

So as you can see, Goldeneye practically invented FPS as you know it to this day.

PC games released in 1998 like Thief (even the developers admitted it), Half-Life and SiN simply followed on Goldeneye's own initiative.

And underage people who were in diapers at the time probably don't know that Goldeneye was released more than a year before those games came out, so they think "hurrrr durrrrrrrrr goldeneye did nothing innovative for the time, it copied PC, it was outdated at release!!!!!!" or even more hilariously, "Goldeneye is nothing but a Doom clone!!!!!".

>>2796686
Yep, thanks. I knew I had forgotten that one.

Goldeneye is probably also the first 3D FPS that has a level in a really wide-open outdoors sandbox like field where there are no walls for MILES - the two Surface levels. Not sure if you can hack the Quake 1 engine into creating something as big as that without some walls here and there.

>"Anyone who makes 3-D games who says they’ve not borrowed something from Mario or Zelda is lying — from the games on Nintendo 64"

-Dan Houser, Creative Vice-President of Rockstar Games

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/10/arts/video-games/q-and-a-rockstars-dan-houser-on-grand-theft-auto-v.html?_r=0

I'll trust the man responsible for one of gamings most successful game franchies over random shitposters on /vr/ with no credentials whatsoever.

>>2796728

Also isn't Super Mario 64 the favorite game of Gabe Newell from Valve?
Granted that lazy fat fuck hasn't done a new game in ages, but a lot of people praise the Half-Life games.

I wonder why he never attempted a 3rd person adventure/platforming game, he only made FPSs.

>>2796731
I think Valve's MO is to follow market trends, but that's a subject for another day, and board.

>>2796728

>>2796738
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,50591/

He's kind of a big deal.

>>2796748

>>2795523
>>2795526
Doom is more important than all three put together. OOT and GE didn't even do anything notable anyway.

>>2796758
If you don't play any video games then may be you shouldn't be posting here.

>>2796765
Importance is relative.

>>2796765
>Doom is more important than all three put together.

Doom babies are the worst. I'm not talking about Doom fans, because I am one, but delusional Doom babies like yourself. Here, have your (You).

>>2796768
>prejudice
>intelligence of ape
top kek

>>2796771
I'm not a Doom baby, I'm just making a factual statement.

>Here, have your (You).
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>2796774
...

What?

>>2796776
Opinion is not fact.

>>2796776
I don't know how anyone is going to sit there and try to say that Doom was more influential than Mario 64.

>What the fuck are you talking about?
Did you also start posting on 4chan this afternoon? Open the thread and look at my post again.

>>2796781
I wasn't stating an opinion. Can you not read?

>>2796782
But it was more influential.

>Did you also start posting on 4chan this afternoon? Open the thread and look at my post again.
Again, what the fuck are you talking about?

>>2796776
>I'm just making a factual statement.
Ocarina of Time and Goldeneye changed the 3D action-action and FPS genres literally overnight.

No wonder you think their contributions are invisible. They did it so seamlessly, it looked like the natural way to make these kinds of games all along.

>>2796765

Doom is just an edgier Wolfenstein 3D.

OOT introduced Z-targeting which is still a staple of modern 3D action games, Doom needs to get Source mods in order to be playable for modern standards.

>>2796787
I know this is bait but God damn I mad

>>2796786
>Ocarina of Time and Goldeneye changed the 3D action-action and FPS genres literally overnight.
Not as much as Doom.

>>2796787
Doom is very different from Wolf3D.

>Doom needs to get Source mods in order to be playable for modern standards.
Doom doesn't run on modern computers. That's all there is to it.

>>2795523

Mario 64 was awesome, but Ocarina of Time was just "Zelda III, only slower and clumsier" which is pretty far from "genre-defining".

>>2796783
>Again, what the fuck are you talking about?

Christ Almighty, how blind are you?

what is it about western developers of well-known FPS games that they're big Mario fans?

Carmack made Doom, and he's a huge 2D Mario nerd.
Newell made Half-Life, and he's a huge 3D Mario nerd.

>>2796793
actually it was the first good zelda.

>>2796794
For the third time: what the fuck are you talking about? Just answer the question or stop posting.

>>2796805
>what the fuck are you talking about?
Do you see that little (You) when you get responded to? I even fucking circled it for you.

>>2796793
'Zelda III' is one of the weaker titles in the series and only resembles OoT in the most superficial of ways at all. Ocarina advanced so much shit its crazy.

>>2796808
>Do you see that little (You) when you get responded to?
What about it? For the fourth time: what the fuck are you talking about?

>>2796792
>Not as much as Doom.

That's only because the most influential element of 3D action adventure was 2D action adventure, and Goldeneye is probably the second most influential shooter after Doom.

>>2796810
"Here is your (You)" means "Here is your response"

>>2796815
The most influential after Doom is either Quake or Half-Life.

>>2796816
For the fifth time: what the fuck are you talking about? Are you mentally handicapped? Are you from Reddit?

>>2796817
I really don't know what to say to you if you don't understand 4chan vernacular, besides lurk more.

>in b4 what does lurk mean

>>2796819
Just go back to Reddit where you belong.

>>2796782
yeah dude, I've been on 4chan long enough to remember milhouse not being a meme and I went to the scientology protests...that's how old of a fag I am, and I have no clue what you're talking about. Your typing reads like you're sleep deprived.

>>2796817
>The most influential after Doom is either Quake or Half-Life.

What exactly did Quake do other over Doom than have a true 3D engine and player momentum physics?

Half-Life's only contribution was that you felt like you were in a continuously uninterrupted plot, like an interactive movie. It literally had no other innovations.

How can these two games even compete with Goldeneye like these posts show
>>2796664
>>2796689

Before Goldeneye you didn't even have a goddamn RELOAD BUTTON.

>>2796794
you clearly wrote that, the (you) is part of the link, if it was fake it would be separate.

>>2796793
Don't insult link to the past like that OoT was ugly and purple haired link is best link

>>2796824
>and I went to the scientology protest

>>2796835
not bragging, it was cold and just an excuse to call in sick to work. I'm just using it as a timestamp for how long I've been in this hellhole of a website. That long plus two years.

>>2796664
>NPCs can progress the story
It's a FPS, who gives a shit about story? Half-Life isn't a classic on the level of Doom/Quake/CS because of the excessive story.

>level design actually attempted to recreate the architecture of real buildings
This is a terrible idea. Doom and Quake had highly unrealistic level designs because they are trying to be games, not architecture simulators.

>levels designed around stealth
Another bad idea. Stealth FPS is a completely different genre to action FPS, and they should not be mixed.

>split-screen 4 player multiplayer
Split-screen is shit, it completely eliminates the mind-games aspect and reduces winning to who has the superior execution.

>>2796825
>What exactly did Quake do other over Doom than have a true 3D engine and player momentum physics?
Internet multiplayer (not some hacked together third party tunneling software, native UDP/IP). This revolutionized gaming. This is probably more important than anything else mentioned in this thread.

>>2796664
REMINDER that Goldeneye heavily influenced games (like the Thief series) and paved the way for stealth/mission-bassed FPS games.

>>2796852

>i-it doesn't count because my subjective opinion about these things is "it's shit"!

PC gamers are the worst kind of nostalgia fags

>>2796852
>Stealth FPS is a completely different genre to action FPS, and they should not be mixed.
>it's bad because I say so

Okay.

>>2796852
>these aren't innovations because I personally don't like them!

Your post

>Internet multiplayer (not some hacked together third party tunneling software, native UDP/IP). This revolutionized gaming. This is probably more important than anything else mentioned in this thread.

You act as if Quake was the first game period to have proper online multiplayer haha. And trying to saying that tunneling software doesn't count is hilarious. It still worked goddamn it.

Quake's online multiplayer influence is purely down to its well programmed momentum based movement, which I already acknowledged. This meant there was a high skill ceiling. But let's not go dribbling moron and claim Quake = online multiplayer.

>>2796852
>Half-Life isn't a classic on the level of Doom/Quake/CS because of the excessive story.
>I only played HL2

>This is a terrible idea.
Except you'd realise the opposite is true if you actually sat down and played Goldeneye. The realistic approach results in much more creative and open mission design, in contrast to the maze like levels of prior games. It makes much more sense for a full 3D game with stealth mechanics to be like this. Your opinion otherwise is just trollish.

>>2796858
The way Goldeneye seamlessly allowed both stealth and run and gun to be used together has barely been improved on though.

>>2796825
Quake was fully 3D and set the standards for modding and Internet multiplayer. Half-Life is responsible for every "cinematic" shooter made since, popularized the use of realistic environments and weapons, and also made substantial contributions to multiplayer and modding.

>Before Goldeneye you didn't even have a goddamn RELOAD BUTTON.
Half-Life had a reload button. So did System Shock.

>How can these two games even compete with Goldeneye like these posts show
Just because it (maybe) had a feature before other games did doesn't mean it's influential. For example, what does it matter that it had split-screen 4 player multiplayer? That's completely inconsequential compared to Doom's network play and Quake's Internet multiplayer. Some of the items on the list are also wrong, like reloading (System Shock), transparent glass (Duke3D), dodging attacks (Quake II), realistic clevel design (Duke3D), difficulty changes objectives (System Shock), objectives other than collecting stuff (System Shock).

If we were to just list features, then System Shock would likely be the most innovative FPS of them all. But it wasn't that influential.

>>2796868
The sad thing is that when people say "Goldeneye is hopelessly aged or outdated" in their minds they are thinking of Halo, Call of Duty, etc which is stupid as fuck because they play nothing like Goldeneye.

While in actual fact, when people say Goldeneye is outdated they should have in their minds Perfect Dark and the Timesplitters series because these games actually have Goldeneye-like mechanics.

It's like saying "this tube shmup makes all bullet hell shmups feel out of date because, after all, they are all shmups right?".

>>2796874
>While in actual fact, when people say Goldeneye is outdated they should have in their minds Perfect Dark and the Timesplitters series because these games actually have Goldeneye-like mechanics.

It's not even the mechanics I take issue with. It's the controls. They were fine for me at the time, because I had nothing else, but having experienced two sticks and mouse aim, I've no desire to play an FPS on the N64 ever again.

>in b4 use the two controller control scheme

I appreciate them for putting that in there, and am even impressed that they went the extra mile to do it, but that is just not for me.

>>2796873
>Quake was fully 3D and set the standards for modding

Doom set the standards for modding.

>Half-Life...popularized the use of realistic environments and weapons
Goldeneye did that.

>substantial contributions to multiplayer and modding.
Only building off what Quake did, which itself was building off what Doom did.

>Half-Life had a reload button
Yeah, but it was released over 12 months after Goldeneye. Because it copied Goldeneye.

> So did System Shock.
It did not have a reload button. Time to look up the game's keymap again my friend?

>For example, what does it matter that it had split-screen 4 player multiplayer? That's completely inconsequential compared to Doom's network play and Quake's Internet multiplayer.
Says who? You? Split-screen is the only way people can play a game when there is only one machine available.

>like reloading (System Shock)
Already debunked.

>dodging attacks (Quake II)
Released after Goldeneye

>realistic clevel design (Duke3D),
Only building exteriors are based on real architecture. Not the interiors.

> difficulty changes objectives (System Shock), objectives other than collecting stuff (System Shock).
I've been entertaining this for too long, but you do know that System Shock 1 isn't actually an FPS, right? It's an RPG that operates in the first-person like Morrowind.

System Shock 1 was built in the Ultima Underworld 2 engine after all. Unless you want to argue that is an FPS as well?

Even the lead to the Wikipedia article describes System Shock as "first-person action role-playing video game". So bringing it up to save the "honor" of Quake and Half-Life when System Shock is nothing like those games is pretty desperate.

>>2796873
>set the standards for modding
I completely forgot about modding. Quake 1's game logic was written in Quake C, a variant of C that compiled to bytecode for a VM in the game engine. The Quake C source + compiler was released, and it was very easy to completely change the game behavior. I remember making stupid hacks, eg. a rocket that split in two and then fired lightning between the two halves. People with more skill made and released far more impressive mods, eg. Slide, a hoverboard racing game. Somebody even did a chess engine in Quake. Quake modding went far beyond custom maps in Doom.

Half-Life modding was heavily influenced by Quake modding, so without Quake we would never have had Counterstrike. And Team Fortress started out as a Quake mod, so you wouldn't have TF2 either.

>>2796873
>transparent glass (Duke3D)
Forgot to answer this one.

It's true that Duke3D has transparent glass, but what was meant by the Goldeneye "first" is that enemies can't see through it, so it operates sort of like a one-way mirror. I guess that should probably just have been filled under stealth.

The thing about the 64 is that there is 10 or 11 really good solid fun games, and then there's NOTHING. No good hidden gems.

Can anyone name the ten only good 64 games?

>>2796895
Zelda
Zelda MM
Mario 64
Smash brothers
Banjo
Dk64
Star Fox
Goldeneye
Mario Kart
Star Wars Rouge Squadron
Diddy Kong racing
Pokemon Snap

Anon is right, I've got nothing else

>>2796886
>Doom set the standards for modding.
Not even close. This "total conversion" (every map/enemy/weapon/etc. replaced) Quake mod was commercially released. There was even something in the manual about licensing mods for commercial use. I bought it and thought it was awesome back then because of all the cool gadgets you could use. In retrospect it isn't all that great, but it would probably appeal to Goldeneye fans because the feature list is longer than original Quake.

>>2796897
You missed the 60fps games:
Mischief Makers
F-Zero X
Paper Mario

(and Yoshi's Story, but that's crap)

>>2796902
Paper Mario most certainly does not run at 60fps. 2 does, but definitely not 1.

>>2796886
>Only building exteriors are based on real architecture. Not the interiors.

In DN3D? That's not true man. DN3D takes the unrealistic conceptual level design style of Doom and transfers it to realistic environments (except for ep2), with a bigger emphasis on the Y axis and on interactivity.

DN3D also heavily contributed to mapping, modding and online gaming. Starting before Quake came out. You can't attribute stuff like that to a single game.

>>2796901
My point was that Quake modding was an an important, but incremental improvement over Doom WAD modding. So modding is not one of those massive big "woah nobody has ever does this before in a FPS" thing. Particularly as you could do some pretty interesting things with Build engine modding.

Yes, the Quake engine was TONS more flexible than the Doom engine but stems more from it being a 3D engine where game logic doesn't have its hands tied.

>>2796909
No, it was more than incremental. Quake C was revolutionary. Remember the Reaper bots? I played against those all the time before I had an internet connection. Essentially everything other than rendering/networking code was completely replaceable. Gaming magazines had whole sections devoted to Quake mods.

>>2796908
Duke 3D takes place in *real environments* but that's not the same as trying to recreate *real architecture*.

I read the Duke3D development blog. They used photos of real-world locations to model some exteriors but did not do so for interiors (at least, not in any sort of systematic way). It was all based on a silly sort of logic anyway, but that's ok since it wasn't meant to be realistic.

Goldeneye's levels are actually based on floorplans and photos of the actual buildings where the movie was shot.

>>2796897
half of these are shit-tier

>>2796886
>Doom set the standards for modding.
Doom had really primitive modding compared to Quake.

>Goldeneye did that.
It may have had them first in release order, but then again Duke3D had them even earlier. Doesn't mean either of them popularized them.

>Only building off what Quake did, which itself was building off what Doom did.
Counter-Strike was kind of big deal for both multiplayer and modding.

>Yeah, but it was released over 12 months after Goldeneye. Because it copied Goldeneye.
Half-Life was first shown to the public in early 1997 and was originally meant to be released in late 1997, and was mainly delayed because they wanted to revise the level design. And since System Shock already had a reload button, we might as well say Goldeneye copied System Shock.

>It did not have a reload button. Time to look up the game's keymap again my friend?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESIfihOZiyA#t=14m00s

>Released after Goldeneye
Released simultaneously.

>Only building exteriors are based on real architecture. Not the interiors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TXBuTTRI8c#t=2m55s

>System Shock 1 was built in the Ultima Underworld 2 engine after all. Unless you want to argue that is an FPS as well?
System Shock 2 runs on the Thief engine, therefore it is a stealth game.

>So bringing it up to save the "honor" of Quake and Half-Life when System Shock is nothing like those games is pretty desperate.
Claiming it isn't an FPS because it cripples your narrative is pretty desperate.

>>2796892
How is glass that enemies can't see through supposed to be a notable feature?

>>2796916
>Essentially everything other than rendering/networking code was completely replaceable

But that is incremental since it simply increases the number of things which ARE replacement over Doom.

>Gaming magazines had whole sections devoted to Quake mods.

They also had the same thing for Doom WADs.

>>2796921
Replacing code is qualitatively different to replacing data.

>>2796924

>>2796917
People were making Doom levels based on real locations long before Goldeneye was even in development. And so what? It's not some kind of innovative feature.

>>2796921
Doom and Quake modding weren't even on the same planet. Give it up.

>>2795523
NES and SNES have more just saying

>>2796930
shit-tier consoles

>>2796928
Doom can't make use of that kind of design like Goldeneye could though. The mechanics just don't allow it. It's all part of the whole package.

>>2795529
>sucking Nintendo's dick this much
47keks

>>2796891
>Slide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jNrtWrCyc8

Does anybody still play this? I never tried it multiplayer.

>>2796931
>i was poor and had a megadrive

>>2796931
What consoles do you like then?

>>2796932
Doesn't matter. The idea of basing level design on the real world was not new, and had also been done by games in other genres.

>>2796931
If you really think that please re-evaluate your purpose on this planet

>>2796919
>Doom had really primitive modding compared to Quake.
But it still existed, so it's just an incremental improvement.

>It may have had them first in release order, but then again Duke3D had them even earlier. Doesn't mean either of them popularized them.
Duke 3D isn't even remotely realistic. It's science fiction dude.

>Half-Life was first shown to the public in early 1997 and was originally meant to be released in late 1997, and was mainly delayed because they wanted to revise the level design.
So what? Goldeneye was demonstrated even earlier than that.


>And since System Shock already had a reload button
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESIfihOZiyA#t=14m00s
That's not a reload button on a keyboard. It's a menu interface that you interact with to reload.

>Released simultaneously.
There's an over 90 days difference in their release dates.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TXBuTTRI8c#t=2m55s
Yes, because an actual cinema looks like this. *rolls eyes*

>System Shock 2 runs on the Thief engine, therefore it is a stealth game.
Strawman. Thief was designed and inspired to be like Goldeneye, a shooting game. Hence the engine has all of the capabilities required to create a shooting game in it.

>Claiming it isn't an FPS because it cripples your narrative is pretty desperate.
Saying its an FPS due to some superficialities and literally against its documented genre is much worse.

>>2796927
Doom/Quake wasn't written in Scheme. Code and data modding really were different.

>>2796945
There are even older moddable games:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_%28video_gaming%29#Tools

But none of these allowed for replacing the entire game logic code like Quake did. Quake C was a first, and all of modern game modding owes its existence to Quake.

>>2795529
>1st Party Nintendo = video gaming at its best.
back then yeah but not anymore m8

>>2796950
Modding shouldn't even be called a consumer feature in Quake.

The content people made in modding for Quake wasn't a part of Quake itself.

Back then it was like a promise of things to come.

>>2796796
pretty simple. mario's an amazing game.

>>2796771
>Doom babies are the worst.
indeed. sadly they're here to shit up literally every single thread on /vr/ ever. i wish they could just stay in their containment zone.

>>2796938
>The idea of basing level design on the real world

The point is kinda that Goldeneye's whole approach to design allowed a whole different approach to the way levels and their gameplay flowed, with its objectives, levels and game engine all being integrate to this together. All this was needed in order to do a spy game with stealth properly.

>>2796824
>I went to the scientology protests
Original cancer. Thought you SJWs were s myth these days since you all went to reddit and tumblr.

>>2796689
>-Goldeneye was the first FPS in which you could see enemies through transparent glass
eh, no. duke already had that

goldeneye may have introduced a whole bunch of things, sure, but it doesn't change the fact that its gameplay is pretty fucking shitty. sorry but a slideshow console shooter will always just be a slideshow console shooter.

>>2796942
>But it still existed, so it's just an incremental improvement.
Doom modding was little more than making new levels and art assets. Quake had a sidescrolling mod (TargetQuake), a mod where you can pilot helicopters, planes and tanks (AirQuake), an open world RPG mod (don't remember the name), Team Fortress, and bots (e.g. Reaper Bot).

If Quake modding is an incremental improvement over Doom modding, then Unreal Engine 4 is an incremental improvement over the Quake engine. Clearly.

>Duke 3D isn't even remotely realistic. It's science fiction dude.
You're trying to change the topic. We're talking about level design, not game mechanics (but if we were, then we would find that System Shock is more realistic than Goldeneye).

>So what? Goldeneye was demonstrated even earlier than that.
You're the one brought up release dates. I just pointed out that Half-Life was well into its development before Goldeneye was released.

>That's not a reload button on a keyboard. It's a menu interface that you interact with to reload.
You're grasping at straws.

>There's an over 90 days difference in their release dates.
An inconsequential difference.

>Yes, because an actual cinema looks like this. *rolls eyes*
Right. Because if it isn't a perfect 1:1 replica of an actual cinema, it must not be realistic. Just how desperate are you?

>Strawman. Thief was designed and inspired to be like Goldeneye, a shooting game. Hence the engine has all of the capabilities required to create a shooting game in it.
Thief was originally meant to be a dark fantasy game based on the legend of King Arthur, which is why it has a fairly intricate sword fighting system despite not really needing one. It was never intended to be a shooting game.

>Saying its an FPS due to some superficialities and literally against its documented genre is much worse.
Saying it's not an FPS because it cripples your narrative is much worse.

>>2796958
Spotted the underageb&.

>>2796664
>-Goldeneye was the first FPS where the level design actually attempted to recreate the architecture of real buildings
again Duke and the other BUILD engine games did this too

>>2796963
Yes how terrible of those "Doom babies" to point out the fact that Doom was extremely influential.

>>2796968
You are trying to change the subject. Again: basing level design on the real world was not a new idea.

>>2796980
>shit on modern nintendo
>praise old nintendo
>underage b&
You retarded son?

>>2796985
Yes an underage& hipster.

Tropical Freeze, MK8, Mario Maker, Woolly World are all amazing among others. And I don't mean that as a just good.

Tropical Freeze OST is among the best and certainty the best of 8th generation.

Mario Maker is one the best Mario games in years.

Wooly World is great all around.

MK8 is the best Mario kart yet.

>>2796984
>Yes how terrible of those "Doom babies" to point out the fact that Doom was extremely influential.
Everybody knows Doom is influential you pathetically retarded doom baby. I know you feel special for playing an FPS that everybody born before the '90s has played but doom being influential is hardly a 'revelation'. A post like this >>2796765 however is not a 'fact' and is yet another example of tryhard Doom baby shitters unleashing their fully fledged faggotry upon the board. You are literally the most cancerous and obnoxious fanbase on /vr/ bar none. How are you enjoying Blops 3 btw you fucking faggot? :^)

>>2796991
>he bought a pee poo
hahahahahhaha. cry more kiddo.

>>2796993
I'm not particularly a Doom fan, I'm just pointing out a fact.

>How are you enjoying Blops 3 btw you fucking faggot? :^)
Did you get lost on your way to /v/?

>>2796997
>I'm not particularly a Doom fan, I'm just pointing out a fact.
it's not a 'fact' that doom is more influential than oot, mario 64 and goldeneye put together. and to state that 'doom is extremely influential' like it's some poignant revelation is really telling of your mid '90s born beginnings. doom being influential is a fact that's about as mundane as your face is.

>>2797002
>it's not a 'fact' that doom is more influential than oot, mario 64 and goldeneye put together.
Sure it is.

>and to state that 'doom is extremely influential' like it's some poignant revelation is really telling of your mid '90s born beginnings.
I'm sorry that you were born in the mid-90s and were shocked just now to hear that Doom was extremely influential, but that's not my fault.

>>2797007
>I'm sorry that you were born in the mid-90s and were shocked just now to hear that Doom was extremely influential, but that's not my fault.
Just look at this post. This is what Doom babies are. It's literally boiling down to "I know you are but what am I xD". I'm guessing this faggot is born in '98 at the earliest.

>>2797009
98? Are you even old enough to post here?

>>2797013
You did it again kiddo.

>>2797015
Yes we know you are a kid. You just told us. No need to repeat yourself.

>>2797021
>duum babby wants the last word
cute. take it kiddo it's all yours. and thanks for proving my point as flamboyantly as you did ;^)

>>2797024
I find it really odd how many people use this "you just want the last word!" argument even as they themselves keep replying again and again.

>>2795526
Goldeneye redefined acceptable mouth widths

>>2796978
>If Quake modding is an incremental improvement over Doom modding, then Unreal Engine 4 is an incremental improvement over the Quake engine. Clearly.

But...it is incremental. Just a really REALLY big increment. Do you know what incremental actually means?

>incremental: increasing or adding on, especially in a regular series:

Starting something completely new on the other hand is not incremental. Modding was not a brand new feature in Quake over Doom, it simply got a LOT better. But ultimately it's incremental.

>You're trying to change the topic. We're talking about level design,
No, you were talking about 'realistic environments and weapons'. Duke3D's environments and weapons are science-fiction.

Goldeneye's are actually based on the real world (although romanticized).

> I just pointed out that Half-Life was well into its development before Goldeneye was released.
And if you knew anything about the game's development you would know the game was radically reinvented not a long time before it was released. It originally starred Ivan the Space Biker for christsakes. As late as 1997. The year Goldeneye was released.

>You're grasping at straws.
So you're actually trying to tell me that a game in which you interact with a menu to do almost EVERYTHING, including to reload your gun is actually an FPS and not an RPG.

How fucking dense can you get?

It's pretty obvious that Goldeneye having an actual reload button, just like Doom had a 'use' button, is merely following the menu-free simplicity of its FPS predecessors.

>An inconsequential difference.
Seems inconsequential now, but this was the late 90s - a time in which games that were even one year old seemed prehistoric due to the rabid advancements in design and technology.

>>2796978
>Right. Because if it isn't a perfect 1:1 replica of an actual cinema, it must not be realistic. Just how desperate are you?

Strawman. Have you ever seen a cinema in real life that instead of an elevator it has a platform that juts out of the ground to carry you up without any railings?

Where in Duke3D's cinema would be equivalent to an administration or manager's office? (even if the door was locked and inaccessible)

>Thief was originally meant to be a dark fantasy game based on the legend of King Arthur, which is why it has a fairly intricate sword fighting system despite not really needing one. It was never intended to be a shooting game.

That's not my point. The point is that the developers of Thief observed Goldeneye (and yes, this is recorded in their official post-mortem) and saw that it was possible to do a stealth game in an FPS style menu-free format.

Therefore their game engine was flexible enough that you could directly interact with the environment without a series of menus. Therefore, going an extra step and making a shooter was not difficult.

System Shock 2 is an actual FPS/RPG hybrid because while there are menus they are not the main point of interaction. In System Shock 1 on the other hand, it's almost completely menu driven aside from a little movement and some point and click combat. You have menus for your menus for your menus. Just like Ultima Underworld 2.

>Saying it's not an FPS because it cripples your narrative is much worse.
See above and >>2797257

Again, if you actually think holding System Shock 1 as an FPS and not an RPG makes sense despite the fact that you can only reload by interacting with a menu, then you are goddamn stupid.

>>2796974
we weren't SJW's we were doing it mainly to troll the scifags, for the lulz. There were some anons that were taking it pretty seriously but many of us just wanted to thumb our noses at a religion that openly worshiped money

>>2796974
and look it up, it was pretty big and almost entirely organized on 4chan, very not SJW.

>>2796895

Sin and Punishment
Mystical Ninja starring Goemon
Goemon's Great Adventure
Bomberman Hero
Bomberman 64
Wonder Project J2
Hybrid Heaven
Mischief Makers
Snowboard Kids 1 and 2
Beetle Adventure Racing

there you go, off the top of my head, and without relying on 1st party (well, S&P is Nintendo-produced, but it was developed by Treasure)

So /vr/ is just /v/ with retro consoles now, right? When did this change occur?

>>2795572
I agree, console warring is asinine, we should look at the games themselves, the systems they're on should only be looked at as a secondary thing.

>>2795585
Agree.

>>2796239
I largely agree.
Doom has aged amazingly.
Goldeneye? Not as well.

>>2796257
>Doom 1
>Episode 4
>Nightmare! mode
>Fast Monsters
Suddenly, Goldeneye and Quake are fucking cakewalks.

>>2795539
>arcade
>casual
Anencephalic retard.

>>2797397
Arcade players are the biggest keks in gaming. Artificial difficulty games made to kek your wallet. Keep putting in quarters kek.

>>2796895

What's wrong with that?

>>2797698
I bet you kept telling yourself that whilst you were replaying Mario 64 again and again because the N64's library was so barren.

>>2795585

There is something that feels so crisp about Mario 64 even to this day. Perfect controls and graphics for that era, exactly like Mario 1/3/World.

>>2795523
>>2795526
Overrated games by Nintendo fanboys. We had them then and we still have them now.

>>2795585

the most popular games nowadays are third person open world games, right now everything is open world since the huge hit of Skyrim a few years ago, I see the influence of Mario 64 in Assasins Creed for example.

here you have the developers admitting the influence http://www.destructoid.com/how-super-mario-64-influenced-assassin-s-creed-iv-262691.phtml

And this is only from the level design point of view, Mario 64 was also very influential in its controls and camera.

>>2795523

How ironic that Mario just now is starting to play like Crash Bandicoot played back then.

>>2797834
Crash Bandicoot was trying to play like Donkey Kong Country which was trying to play like Super Mario World which was trying to play like Super Mario Bros.

It just means Nintendo have gone full circle.

>>2797794

How sad must be to live an existence of perpetual paranoia where you think games with universal acclaim are only praised by "nintendo fanboys" boogeymen.

But you're just way too cool for school and nintendo, right? Rev up those less popular games man

>>2797794
I hate Nintendo fanboys but those two games are legitimately good bro.

>>2797257
>But...it is incremental. Just a really REALLY big increment. Do you know what incremental actually means?
Cars weren't anything new, they were just an incremental improvement over horses.

Modding code is not the same as modding art/maps.

>>2797397
>Nightmare! mode
>Fast Monsters

You are aware of 007 Dark Licence to Kill settings, right?

1991
>3D
>can enter vehicle
>can enter building
>side quest
>open world

>>2797698
Oh, you think I'm the kind of guy who feeds quarters to a machine to play on shitty big sticks while people breathe down your neck for their turn?

Nah, I just like arcade style gameplay, you can get that in home games.

Also, stop calling people keks, it's incredibly fucking childish and everyone will think you're a chronic shitposter from /v/.

>>2798083
Never played Perfect Dark, but yeah, Goldeneye could be pretty hard on 00 difficulty (but to be fair, it also didn't have the best controls for an FPS game, though the N64 controller was what it was). Or if you jacked everything up on 007 difficulty but that's LITERALLY artificial difficulty.

In Doom, the Fast Monsters flag will make all enemies constantly throw projectiles and shoot at you as they advance, pausing very briefly to rapidly chuck missiles at you then continuing to move towards you.
On Nightmare! mode, monsters NEVER stay dead, they will respawn after a set time, no matter what, clearing the level thus becomes a moot point and your objective is survival. Nightmare! mode is also on the same difficulty as Ultra-Violence so the maps will have more and stronger monsters.

Eh, GoldenEye on OO Agent is not harder than Doom on Nightmare. Nigga please, it's not anywhere near it. I beat all of GoldenEye on double O agent when I was 11 (and I also unlocked all the cheats at that age by doing the required level speed runs). It was many years later that I completed Doom on Nightmare.

I will say GoldenEye on OO is much harder than Doom on UV though. Doom UV is cakewalk as fuck.

>>2798424
UV or Nightmare gets a lot harder with Fast Monsters on.

>>2798424
*Btw I'm talking about vanilla GoldenEye here, played with an N64 controller, as that's the difficulty the game should be judged on since it was built from the ground up for that level of control. If you play it modded with an emulator and KBM controls it would be much easier than the vanilla experience but that's not the appropriate way to judge its difficulty.

>>2798429
doesn't nightmare always have fast monsters on?

>>2798434
Yup. He's yet another clueless doom baby.

>OP posts thread about Zelda, SM64 and the N64
>it devolves into Doom vs GoldenEye
Thanks again Doom faggots. Why is FPS the most cancerous genre?

>>2798453
>Thanks again Doom faggots. Why is FPS the most cancerous genre?
It's the /v/ connection.

>>2798440
>le doom babby forced meme
Oh, hey, it's you. How's chronic autism treating you?

>>2795523
Because that, Goldeneye, Banjo Kazooie and Smash Bros were really all it had going for it

Imo, PS1 vs. N64 is a quantity vs. quality debate though

>>2798473
PS1 fucking sucked man. It was for poorfags and loners (so /vr/ would love it). Fuck that system, had so much more fun on the N64 both with single and multiplayer. Especially multiplayer though.

RPG is for faggots btw so don't bother bringing that bullshit up. Only exceptions is Souls/Bloodborne but those are more action games with RPG elements. 99% of the RPG genre is fucking trash.

>>2798424
>GoldenEye on OO Agent is not harder than Doom on Nightmare
Nobody here is claiming it is. We're talking about 007 mode.

>>2795523
Well from what I can remember, and this is from my memories of when my step-brother lent me his for a week...

Graphics had a weird kind of fuzzyness to them, like the screen had a filter on it? A fuzzy pale grey filter? Also notice this on my friends' n64s when I've played them.

Controllers are not great. Compare the n64 controller to a dualshock. The analog stick is terrible. The button layout is odd and I don't have three hands.

Almost no games. Mario, zelda, zeldamm, star fox, goldeneye. That's pretty much all the heavy hitters. They're big names, but two are rpgs, meaning low replay value.

So expensive! Nintendo got sued in the UK because they dropped the price after a month or so because no-one wanted to buy a 450 quid console!

>>2798501
>and I don't have three hands
>two are rpgs
just don't even

>>2798501

>Compare the n64 controller to a dualshock.

the dualshock analogues have no precision at all, playing games like Star Fox, Goldeneye or Sin and Punishment with a dualshock would make out for a very poor experience.

>le 3 hands meme

post discarded

>>2798515
if psx analogs were anything like the ps2 ones than they are far superior to the n64 analog. this is coming from someone that loves n64 and only owned an n64 from that gen btw. the n64 analog stick was an abomination... an abomination that actually wore down ffs

>>2798501

wow great post

10/10 would diarrhea again

>>2798587

N64 had serious problems with wear, I'll grant you that.

The N64 stick was much firmer though, and I liked it a lot better for that. It was much easier to do fine control, think Mario sneaking up on the piranha plants. Additionally I really liked the added precision of the octagon, it made it much easier to press straight up as compared to up-and-sort-of-drifting-left-a-bit.

Maybe there are some crazy mods to swap out the DS sticks for ones 4-5 times tighter, never really looked into it.

Most influential != greatest. Otherwise, Wii Sports is one of the greatest games of all time.

>>2798587

>than

what?

I think both ps1 and ps2 analogues are stiff, ps3 ones are better/smoother, but still not as precise as the N64, I agree with >>2798613


But yeah, they do wear off, the western ones at least.

>>2798621

Your opinion != fact

But yeah, we're talking about influential here, "greatest" is subjective as fuck.

>>2795529
by that argument, the gamecube is crap

>>2795526
>Goldeneye
>Genre-defining

All it did was make FPSs popular on consoles.

>>2798723

This, fuck Goldeneye, I hate the FPS genre.

Without Goldeneye, we wouldn't have Halo and the gaming industry would be much better, or at least less shitty.

>>2798729

>>2798729
I'm sure something else would have done it, if Goldeneye didn't exist.

I do wish FPSs mostly stayed a PC thing, though.

>>2798729
You must be Japanese.
That edge is sharp.

>>2798623
>>2798613
>>2798587
I've been told lots of times how in Japan they put mechanical grease in the analog sticks for the N64 pads, but for Europe and the Americas, they didn't do this at all (for whatever reason), resulting in a much rougher feeling stick, as well as greatly accelerated wear (I think we all noticed the white plastic dust building up in our controllers as it ground away at itself). But it's uncomfortable either way, sometimes that ridged surface would wear my thumb raw. It could greatly have used a textured rubber surface (and proper mechanical grease)

I'll say that I like how the N64 stick was sensitive and responsive, allowing for finer control (while it was new an unworn anyway). The Dualshock 1 and 2 didn't have stick that good. Dualshock 3 feels better.

>>2798729
>This, fuck Goldeneye, I hate the FPS genre.
Get raped with a pineapple.

>>2798479
>you will never be this mad over video games

feels great

Also wasn't the N64 cheaper than the PS1 at launch?

>>2798819
>Also wasn't the N64 cheaper than the PS1 at launch?

Depends on the country. Also piracy made PS1 overall much cheaper.

I'm from latin america and N64 was definitely the rich kid's console

>>2795523
cartridges

>>2798839

bad for developers, good for consumers

no loading times, more durability

>>2798868
>good for consumers
Turok cost £70 ($100+) when it came out. Cartridges fucked customers as much as they fucked developers.

>>2798874

I still can't be mad at cartidges when they're so reliable.

Also, weren't games with multiple discs also kind of expensive? I remember paying a good chunk of money for Shenmue.

>>2798723
>All it did was make FPSs popular on consoles.
Ignorance. Some people really don't want to accept that a console game (and a licensed one at that) helped define FPS for both console and PC.

>>2798729
>This, fuck Goldeneye, I hate the FPS genre.
>Without Goldeneye, we wouldn't have Halo
If you hate the FPS genre why do you care?

>>2798909
Goldeneye didn't do anything for PC that Doom and Quake didn't already do. This isn't ignorance, its a fact.

>>2799045

If anything, Goldeneye contributed to devolving the FPS genre to the unbearable shit it is today.

There was no evolution in the FPS genre after Quake. Only features that made it worse.

>>2799049
>Goldeneye contributed to devolving the FPS genre to the unbearable shit it is today.
No, that would be HL2. Goldeneye lacks all the flaws of modern FPS.

>>2799045
>Goldeneye didn't do anything for PC that Doom and Quake didn't already do
Uh yeah...it did, which of these things did Doom and Quake do again? >>2796664

>>2795958

Crash 1 "gets" platforming better than all of those aimless N64 platformers people consider the pinnacle of 3D platformers for some reason. Those games are riddled with bullshit that only slows the game down. To make matters worse, they also felt the need to put in a bunch of dialogue, which is only spoken in gibberish.

Crash Bandicoot is classic, not only as a tech flagship, but for understanding the flow of a good platformer in 3D.

>>2799132
Crash 1 was just a rehash in 3D of what players already experienced on SNES. That was literally Naughty Dog's modus operandi; recreate Donkey Kong Country except you walk into the screen instead of to the right.

The level design of the first game was also vastly inferior to the Donkey Kong Country series. This is because Naughty Dog spent more time getting the graphics right then actually designing good levels (read the development diary, level design was an afterthought).

The platforming levels got somewhat corrected in the sequels, but they focused too much on silly minigames that they never got totally right.

The 3D platformers on N64 actually were providing a different experience to past consoles. They weren't just pure platformers, but a hybrid of platforming and adventure. I think the N64 had way too many of them, but they are still high quality games.

>>2796664
>Goldeneye was the first FPS where the level design actually attempted to recreate the architecture of real buildings

This is wrong. Duke Nukem 3D, Shadow Warrior, and Blood did this beforehand.

>>2799198
We've already been over this. Those games don't model buildings accurately.

>>2798874
It's not so bad. The cartridge games I had as a kid have outlasted pretty much all of the CD based games I owned at around the same time.

>>2798868

> More durability

Sure, whatever you say, even though those I know can barely run their supposedly indestructible cartridges at all on their N64 now.

>>2799212
>accurately

If we're going there, then neither did goldeneye.

>>2796664

> Dedicated reload button

PukingFratboy.jpg

>>2799219
Nobody said that they were indestructible. You do still have to clean them and keep them dry. They just don't get scratched and rendered useless like CDs do.

>>2799230

CDs come with a jewel case for a reason.

>>2799226
Goldeneye tried to recreate buildings based on their floorplans for a more realistic kind of level design to complement the stealth system and increase immersion. That's why there are tons of rooms that seemingly have no purpose whatsoever. Also Goldeneye actually tried to have realistic gameplay. Shoot a guy in the head and he's dead. No fucking bullet sponge pig cops.

Duke3D et al may have locations that are based on the contemporary modern world, but are essentially akin to comic book exaggerated versions. (Think Metropolis vs New York)

They didn't try to make their level designs realistic because there was no point for what they were actually trying to do.

>>2799231
Admittedly, I was a lazy faggot when I was a kid and didn't put my CDs back in their cases when I was done. I did eventually wise up and start putting them away, but they kept getting ruined anyway because of my younger siblings.

>>2799219

Really? all of my old N64 (or any other cart-based console I own like Genesis and SNES) carts work, I didn't even made any maintenance on them.

The problem with CDs isn't only taking care of the CDs themselves, but also the console's disc drive.